Cadillac wins midsize comparison about a blend of luxury and performance

[Frisky Dingo]

0-60 times mean dick for how a car feels in the real world. How on Earth are so-called enthusiasts STILL forgetting this? Look at a standard 911's 0-60 time. It's quicker than a lot of much higher powered cars. But out on the streets, it feels worlds slower than a Charger RT. I know, I just drove the two back to back last week.

[ccap41]

0-60 times mean dick for how a car feels in the real world. How on Earth are so-called enthusiasts STILL forgetting this? Look at a standard 911's 0-60 time. It's quicker than a lot of much higher powered cars. But out on the streets, it feels worlds slower than a Charger RT. I know, I just drove the two back to back last week.

Even from a stand still? That's hard to believe because of the AWD vs RWD. Are the turbos that big that there is all sorts of lag as well? I would have thought the lighter weight, AWD, and low end turbo tq would have made it feel quicker 

[surreal1272]

 

 

^ great words, Olds. 

 

Opinions on styling are exactly subjective. There just isn't a true way to measure style. The only way would be to poll EVERYBODY and that just isn't realistic in any way. That's why you adore cars I think are hideous and I adore cars you think are hideous. The closest possible way to measure would be sales and that's just ridiculous because there is no way everybody can buy the most beautiful cars. I guarantee you I wouldn't have bought an Escape, lol.

 

NOW I understand why Bong takes his words to heart. "Robert Cumberford is a former automotive designer for General Motors"   

 

Everything makes since now.   

So did you read his entire back story and not just the part where he worked for GM fifty years ago?

http://www.automobilemag.com/author/robert-cumberford/

 

As a matter of fact, he is just as honest about the new Camaro.

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/2016-chevrolet-camaro-design-analysis/

 

Nah, I just read the part where he worked for GM which was all I needed to read to know 'Bong would be worshiping his words. 

 

So you're letting your bias against Bong, in this case, get in the way of the fact that this reviewer is very accredited and gives equal treatment to all makes?

[Drew Dowdell]

0-60 times mean dick for how a car feels in the real world. How on Earth are so-called enthusiasts STILL forgetting this? Look at a standard 911's 0-60 time. It's quicker than a lot of much higher powered cars. But out on the streets, it feels worlds slower than a Charger RT. I know, I just drove the two back to back last week.

 

Because it's the only metric certain people understand even if it is just as dumb a metric as peak horsepower expressed without RPM.

[ccap41]

 

 

 

^ great words, Olds. 

 

Opinions on styling are exactly subjective. There just isn't a true way to measure style. The only way would be to poll EVERYBODY and that just isn't realistic in any way. That's why you adore cars I think are hideous and I adore cars you think are hideous. The closest possible way to measure would be sales and that's just ridiculous because there is no way everybody can buy the most beautiful cars. I guarantee you I wouldn't have bought an Escape, lol.

 

NOW I understand why Bong takes his words to heart. "Robert Cumberford is a former automotive designer for General Motors"   

 

Everything makes since now.   

So did you read his entire back story and not just the part where he worked for GM fifty years ago?

http://www.automobilemag.com/author/robert-cumberford/

 

As a matter of fact, he is just as honest about the new Camaro.

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/2016-chevrolet-camaro-design-analysis/

 

Nah, I just read the part where he worked for GM which was all I needed to read to know 'Bong would be worshiping his words. 

 

So you're letting your bias against Bong, in this case, get in the way of the fact that this reviewer is very accredited and gives equal treatment to all makes?

 

Absolutely. lol 

 

But in all seriousness... I'm not a fan of the guy's reviews. I read a small handful on cars that I really though were good looking and a couple I wasn't a fan of and I just don't agree with him. He seems to pick things apart in a way that doesn't make sense to me. 

[G. David Felt]

 

0-60 times mean dick for how a car feels in the real world. How on Earth are so-called enthusiasts STILL forgetting this? Look at a standard 911's 0-60 time. It's quicker than a lot of much higher powered cars. But out on the streets, it feels worlds slower than a Charger RT. I know, I just drove the two back to back last week.

 

Because it's the only metric certain people understand even if it is just as dumb a metric as peak horsepower expressed without RPM.

 

Electric auto's could make the 0-60 metric the gold standard as Torque is 100% from zero and so then you do not have to worry about rpm, just how fast one can get there.

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

 

^ great words, Olds. 

 

Opinions on styling are exactly subjective. There just isn't a true way to measure style. The only way would be to poll EVERYBODY and that just isn't realistic in any way. That's why you adore cars I think are hideous and I adore cars you think are hideous. The closest possible way to measure would be sales and that's just ridiculous because there is no way everybody can buy the most beautiful cars. I guarantee you I wouldn't have bought an Escape, lol.

 

NOW I understand why Bong takes his words to heart. "Robert Cumberford is a former automotive designer for General Motors"   

 

Everything makes since now.   

So did you read his entire back story and not just the part where he worked for GM fifty years ago?

http://www.automobilemag.com/author/robert-cumberford/

 

As a matter of fact, he is just as honest about the new Camaro.

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/2016-chevrolet-camaro-design-analysis/

 

Nah, I just read the part where he worked for GM which was all I needed to read to know 'Bong would be worshiping his words. 

 

So you're letting your bias against Bong, in this case, get in the way of the fact that this reviewer is very accredited and gives equal treatment to all makes?

 

Absolutely. lol 

 

But in all seriousness... I'm not a fan of the guy's reviews. I read a small handful on cars that I really though were good looking and a couple I wasn't a fan of and I just don't agree with him. He seems to pick things apart in a way that doesn't make sense to me. 

 

Not my point (although I see what you are saying). This guy has a lot of clout and credibility and just because he worked at GM at one time (which is Bongs favorite car company obviously) does not take away that fact. 

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

0-60 times mean dick for how a car feels in the real world. How on Earth are so-called enthusiasts STILL forgetting this? Look at a standard 911's 0-60 time. It's quicker than a lot of much higher powered cars. But out on the streets, it feels worlds slower than a Charger RT. I know, I just drove the two back to back last week.

 

Because it's the only metric certain people understand even if it is just as dumb a metric as peak horsepower expressed without RPM.

 

Electric auto's could make the 0-60 metric the gold standard as Torque is 100% from zero and so then you do not have to worry about rpm, just how fast one can get there.

 

 

Not really, because no one really drives in 0-60 mode. Commuting to work, my Buick Encore and a Tesla Model-S P90D have the same 0-60 times.... if we even get to 60 at all.

[G. David Felt]

 

 

 

0-60 times mean dick for how a car feels in the real world. How on Earth are so-called enthusiasts STILL forgetting this? Look at a standard 911's 0-60 time. It's quicker than a lot of much higher powered cars. But out on the streets, it feels worlds slower than a Charger RT. I know, I just drove the two back to back last week.

 

Because it's the only metric certain people understand even if it is just as dumb a metric as peak horsepower expressed without RPM.

 

Electric auto's could make the 0-60 metric the gold standard as Torque is 100% from zero and so then you do not have to worry about rpm, just how fast one can get there.

 

 

Not really, because no one really drives in 0-60 mode. Commuting to work, my Buick Encore and a Tesla Model-S P90D have the same 0-60 times.... if we even get to 60 at all.

 

That is True, but the thinking is if you want to compare auto to auto, zero to 60 in like auto's especially EV where you have 100% torque from zero makes them all pretty even so then the type of motor with amount of torque shows off the efficiency of the engineering so that you can give a consistent barometer on how the auto does. yes weight, aerodynamics, etc. all play a big role. I just think an EV zero to 60 is a solid gauge of an auto in comparison to petrol and the crazy RPM range of when you get full torque, full HP etc.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

 

 

0-60 times mean dick for how a car feels in the real world. How on Earth are so-called enthusiasts STILL forgetting this? Look at a standard 911's 0-60 time. It's quicker than a lot of much higher powered cars. But out on the streets, it feels worlds slower than a Charger RT. I know, I just drove the two back to back last week.

 

Because it's the only metric certain people understand even if it is just as dumb a metric as peak horsepower expressed without RPM.

 

Electric auto's could make the 0-60 metric the gold standard as Torque is 100% from zero and so then you do not have to worry about rpm, just how fast one can get there.

 

 

Not really, because no one really drives in 0-60 mode. Commuting to work, my Buick Encore and a Tesla Model-S P90D have the same 0-60 times.... if we even get to 60 at all.

 

That is True, but the thinking is if you want to compare auto to auto, zero to 60 in like auto's especially EV where you have 100% torque from zero makes them all pretty even so then the type of motor with amount of torque shows off the efficiency of the engineering so that you can give a consistent barometer on how the auto does. yes weight, aerodynamics, etc. all play a big role. I just think an EV zero to 60 is a solid gauge of an auto in comparison to petrol and the crazy RPM range of when you get full torque, full HP etc.

 

 

It's an irrelevant metric to pretty much all drivers not named SMK. Look at the big deal SMK makes about 0.1 second in the S-Class over the CT6 as if it is some huge victory. It's not... it's a crushing defeat that a Cadillac V6 matches a Mercedes V8 that is 1.7 liters (more than one whole malibu engine!) larger.

 

Furthermore, the Benz automatics skip first gear entirely unless you set the transmission to sports mode every time you get in the car.  (I don't know the case on the CT6 yet). So in every day driving, you don't even get the published acceleration.  The CLS I drove would even sneak back into "normal" mode after an extended period of tame driving so as not to waste gas. 

 

0-60 might matter in a car like the Spark or even the Encore that has double digit 0-60 times, but 1/10th of one second in cars capable of anything under 6 seconds really is meaningless.

[ccap41]

 

 

 

 

Electric auto's could make the 0-60 metric the gold standard as Torque is 100% from zero and so then you do not have to worry about rpm, just how fast one can get there.

 

 

 

 

Because it's the only metric certain people understand even if it is just as dumb a metric as peak horsepower expressed without RPM.

 

 

 

 

Not really, because no one really drives in 0-60 mode. Commuting to work, my Buick Encore and a Tesla Model-S P90D have the same 0-60 times.... if we even get to 60 at all.

 

That is True, but the thinking is if you want to compare auto to auto, zero to 60 in like auto's especially EV where you have 100% torque from zero makes them all pretty even so then the type of motor with amount of torque shows off the efficiency of the engineering so that you can give a consistent barometer on how the auto does. yes weight, aerodynamics, etc. all play a big role. I just think an EV zero to 60 is a solid gauge of an auto in comparison to petrol and the crazy RPM range of when you get full torque, full HP etc.

 

 

It's an irrelevant metric to pretty much all drivers not named SMK. Look at the big deal SMK makes about 0.1 second in the S-Class over the CT6 as if it is some huge victory. It's not... it's a crushing defeat that a Cadillac V6 matches a Mercedes V8 that is 1.7 liters (more than one whole malibu engine!) larger.

 

Furthermore, the Benz automatics skip first gear entirely unless you set the transmission to sports mode every time you get in the car.  (I don't know the case on the CT6 yet). So in every day driving, you don't even get the published acceleration.  The CLS I drove would even sneak back into "normal" mode after an extended period of tame driving so as not to waste gas. 

 

0-60 might matter in a car like the Spark or even the Encore that has double digit 0-60 times, but 1/10th of one second in cars capable of anything under 6 seconds really is meaningless.

 

I don't know about you Drew but I am always driving in 0-60 mode!!! 

 

Just got the record there are exactly two people who care about 0.1 of a second to either 60mph or 1/4 mile..whichever makes them win. 

 

My C350 did the skip first unless in sort mode and I liked it because 1st was so short it was just an unnecessary shift to feel. It was the smoothest trans I've ever driven with but it was still an unnecessary shift to be felt because in "comfort" mode you don't need the extra rpm for accelerating. I actually loved that trans. You'd be the better judge as you've driven WAAAAY more than I though. 

[oldshurst442]

Stats in general...are meaningless...

 

Unless one races his car at the track or drag strip...but on public roads...especially when family haulers have 300 horsepower ratings, illegal speeds and illegal driving are attained in a blink of an eye, and not much room to do anything else with it other than crash and kill innocent bystanders.

 

For me...the cool factor kicks in and the "gotta have it" becomes my measurement of performance.

 

Anything under 6 seconds?

 

my 2005 Impala SS came close to that measure.

My 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD I believe does that in under 6 seconds.

V6 Camrys also have 0-60 times under 6 seconds.

 

That measure aint really that impressive anymore.

0-60 times under 4 seconds is impressive, though.

Motorcycles were the only ones to accomplish that 20 years ago...to see cars that weigh 4000 plus pounds do that is impressive.

[G. David Felt]

Valid points Drew, your right especially in regards to people who only care about the badge and in regards to s-class versus ct6 where 99.9% of people will not be able to tell the difference.

 

 

For me, I like my speed but also I just want a solid pull from a stop knowing I can get up to Highway speed quickly and merge into traffic. That I think is more important to people than the 0-60.

 

I do feel that the 0-60 can at least give a person some sense of how fast they can get moving.

[El Kabong]

I like 0-60 as well. It's still a handy metric for a (legal) way to quantify a car's ability to accelerate. It's not the be-all and end-all it used to be now that we have hi-performance AWD cars, but it's still pretty handy.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Started this conversation in 2008 on MT Forum, and they even posed the idea on the main article section.  MT Article

 

The 1/4, 0-100-150.. Braking, Skid Pad numbers are more indicative of performance in cars that can go over 175MPH. 

 

I mean really... the 0-60 test is in essence designed to give a buyer of a COMMUTER car an idea of how long it would take to reach cruising speed on the FREEWAY... a COMMUTER CAR.. as in Camry, Malibu, Focus, or Caravan. 0-60 can be achieved literally in a Blink of an eye in some of these cars, and using it sometimes as a gauge of a car's performance credentials can also be deceptive...

 

In other words U could attempt to achieve "all powerful" 0-60 times but hit the gas in a 350HP+ car and U might just sit and spin for 3/10ths before U ever take off... The 1/4 miles is the choice of track running. I have NEVER been to the track or even as a kid, heard old timers talk about how fast their 66 Chevy II, 69 Road Runner, or 70 1/2 Camaro got to 60MPH... They always talked about  and we always look at the 1/4 Mile or 0-150-0 which measures all out acceleration and stopping.

 

The 0-60 talk around here concerning "Super Cars" or cars that posting Super Car times is REDUNDANT. Consider that these days 5 seconds to 60 can be achieved by SUVs (Jeep SRT8) and Full Size Sedans (G8 GT)

 

I vote that we reserve 0-60 times to non-performance cars like the Daily Commuter types.

 

Hence the reason why I am not suggesting ELIMINATING it in our discussions.. as 85% of our discussion here seem to.. for some strange reason on an Enthusiast Site... center around the "Sissy Cars" where 0-60 has meaning.

 

My suggestion simply lends to the idea that when we are talking about Corvettes, Porsche's, Vipers, Camaro, Mustangs, Ferraris, Bugattis.. etc.. We move to a high realm...

 

4 instance.. a Veyron does 0-60 in 2.8secs.. which for a 1000HP car seems rather mundane.. considering we have 505HP cars that can do it in 3.4secs... and LET'S BE CLEAR.. 6/10ths is a BLINK of an eye unmeasurable by "seat of the pants" or the eyes... One doesn't see any real awe inspiring numbers from the Veyron until we start speaking about 0-100-0 which is 9.9secs.. meaning by the time a Prius is hitting 40MPH...   the Veyron has gone to 100 and then come to a complete STOP...

 

 6 years later I continue to believe that 0-60 is the dumbest thing in the world to judge a car carrying over 350HP, let alone over 600. 1/4 Mile is the measurement, and at a point we will have to veer off from even that as the more power these cars get the less likely they are gonna be able to depart from going further below the 3 sec runs. Other things, like chassis refinement, proper launching mechanisms, better tire technology etc are going to also be needed. Its one of the reasons why the 707HP Charger/Chall is probably gonna be slower to 60 when the comparisons are done to cars with only 650. Hell if U look at the numbers, even the 580 ZL1 isn't far off its 0-60 numbers. Hence the reason why the Charger HC can pull 11.8 sec @ 124.3 mph, .5sec less, and 9mph more than the ZL1, but its insignificant 0-60 is 3.7 vs the 3.9 by the ZL1. That's with over 127 more hp. Hence me loving the engine.. but not even remotely impressed with the car. I maintain that it is relevant in cars like a Camry.. a Prius.. a Malibu.. a Cruze.. a Focus... a Taurus.. a Tahoe.. a Murano, but not in a Vette, Mustang, GT599, 911 Turbo, GTR, CTS-V. After a car hits the 60 mph mark in less than 4.5 secs.. U kno that it becomes more and more pointless because at a point its all about the traction at take off, or lack of.  

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

 

 

 

Electric auto's could make the 0-60 metric the gold standard as Torque is 100% from zero and so then you do not have to worry about rpm, just how fast one can get there.

 

 

 

 

Because it's the only metric certain people understand even if it is just as dumb a metric as peak horsepower expressed without RPM.

 

 

 

 

Not really, because no one really drives in 0-60 mode. Commuting to work, my Buick Encore and a Tesla Model-S P90D have the same 0-60 times.... if we even get to 60 at all.

 

That is True, but the thinking is if you want to compare auto to auto, zero to 60 in like auto's especially EV where you have 100% torque from zero makes them all pretty even so then the type of motor with amount of torque shows off the efficiency of the engineering so that you can give a consistent barometer on how the auto does. yes weight, aerodynamics, etc. all play a big role. I just think an EV zero to 60 is a solid gauge of an auto in comparison to petrol and the crazy RPM range of when you get full torque, full HP etc.

 

 

It's an irrelevant metric to pretty much all drivers not named SMK. Look at the big deal SMK makes about 0.1 second in the S-Class over the CT6 as if it is some huge victory. It's not... it's a crushing defeat that a Cadillac V6 matches a Mercedes V8 that is 1.7 liters (more than one whole malibu engine!) larger.

 

Furthermore, the Benz automatics skip first gear entirely unless you set the transmission to sports mode every time you get in the car.  (I don't know the case on the CT6 yet). So in every day driving, you don't even get the published acceleration.  The CLS I drove would even sneak back into "normal" mode after an extended period of tame driving so as not to waste gas. 

 

0-60 might matter in a car like the Spark or even the Encore that has double digit 0-60 times, but 1/10th of one second in cars capable of anything under 6 seconds really is meaningless.

 

I don't know about you Drew but I am always driving in 0-60 mode!!! 

 

Just got the record there are exactly two people who care about 0.1 of a second to either 60mph or 1/4 mile..whichever makes them win. 

 

My C350 did the skip first unless in sort mode and I liked it because 1st was so short it was just an unnecessary shift to feel. It was the smoothest trans I've ever driven with but it was still an unnecessary shift to be felt because in "comfort" mode you don't need the extra rpm for accelerating. I actually loved that trans. You'd be the better judge as you've driven WAAAAY more than I though. 

 

 

I'm definitely a comfort driver, but I am perfectly capable and skilled at putting the pedal down and keeping cool throughout.   Those extra gears in the Benzes are pretty meaningless if they never get used by the blue-hairs that primarily drive the cars. I mean, what's the point of going around bragging about 7-speed or 9-speed transmissions when they don't operate that way most of the time?  Yes the S-Class technically has a 9-speed, but 99.999999999% of the time it operates in 8-speed mode just like the CT6.

 

It would be an interesting thing to do a 0-60 of the S-Class when it is not in sport mode and only using 8 of its gears as in normal driving and see how it stacks up against the CT6 3.0TT.... I'm betting it comes in slower than the Caddy.... 

[Frisky Dingo]

 

0-60 times mean dick for how a car feels in the real world. How on Earth are so-called enthusiasts STILL forgetting this? Look at a standard 911's 0-60 time. It's quicker than a lot of much higher powered cars. But out on the streets, it feels worlds slower than a Charger RT. I know, I just drove the two back to back last week.

Even from a stand still? That's hard to believe because of the AWD vs RWD. Are the turbos that big that there is all sorts of lag as well? I would have thought the lighter weight, AWD, and low end turbo tq would have made it feel quicker 

 

 

 

This was a 991.1 C2. So pre-turbo. I was very surprised by sluggish it felt. Still amazing to drive, though!

 

0-60 times mean dick for how a car feels in the real world. How on Earth are so-called enthusiasts STILL forgetting this? Look at a standard 911's 0-60 time. It's quicker than a lot of much higher powered cars. But out on the streets, it feels worlds slower than a Charger RT. I know, I just drove the two back to back last week.

 

Because it's the only metric certain people understand even if it is just as dumb a metric as peak horsepower expressed without RPM.

 

 

 

Ok, fair enough. But understanding something that has little relevance in application doesn't mean much.

[Frisky Dingo]

 

Started this conversation in 2008 on MT Forum, and they even posed the idea on the main article section.  MT Article

 

The 1/4, 0-100-150.. Braking, Skid Pad numbers are more indicative of performance in cars that can go over 175MPH. 

 

I mean really... the 0-60 test is in essence designed to give a buyer of a COMMUTER car an idea of how long it would take to reach cruising speed on the FREEWAY... a COMMUTER CAR.. as in Camry, Malibu, Focus, or Caravan. 0-60 can be achieved literally in a Blink of an eye in some of these cars, and using it sometimes as a gauge of a car's performance credentials can also be deceptive...

 

In other words U could attempt to achieve "all powerful" 0-60 times but hit the gas in a 350HP+ car and U might just sit and spin for 3/10ths before U ever take off... The 1/4 miles is the choice of track running. I have NEVER been to the track or even as a kid, heard old timers talk about how fast their 66 Chevy II, 69 Road Runner, or 70 1/2 Camaro got to 60MPH... They always talked about  and we always look at the 1/4 Mile or 0-150-0 which measures all out acceleration and stopping.

 

The 0-60 talk around here concerning "Super Cars" or cars that posting Super Car times is REDUNDANT. Consider that these days 5 seconds to 60 can be achieved by SUVs (Jeep SRT8) and Full Size Sedans (G8 GT)

 

I vote that we reserve 0-60 times to non-performance cars like the Daily Commuter types.

 

Hence the reason why I am not suggesting ELIMINATING it in our discussions.. as 85% of our discussion here seem to.. for some strange reason on an Enthusiast Site... center around the "Sissy Cars" where 0-60 has meaning.

 

My suggestion simply lends to the idea that when we are talking about Corvettes, Porsche's, Vipers, Camaro, Mustangs, Ferraris, Bugattis.. etc.. We move to a high realm...

 

4 instance.. a Veyron does 0-60 in 2.8secs.. which for a 1000HP car seems rather mundane.. considering we have 505HP cars that can do it in 3.4secs... and LET'S BE CLEAR.. 6/10ths is a BLINK of an eye unmeasurable by "seat of the pants" or the eyes... One doesn't see any real awe inspiring numbers from the Veyron until we start speaking about 0-100-0 which is 9.9secs.. meaning by the time a Prius is hitting 40MPH...   the Veyron has gone to 100 and then come to a complete STOP...

 

 6 years later I continue to believe that 0-60 is the dumbest thing in the world to judge a car carrying over 350HP, let alone over 600. 1/4 Mile is the measurement, and at a point we will have to veer off from even that as the more power these cars get the less likely they are gonna be able to depart from going further below the 3 sec runs. Other things, like chassis refinement, proper launching mechanisms, better tire technology etc are going to also be needed. Its one of the reasons why the 707HP Charger/Chall is probably gonna be slower to 60 when the comparisons are done to cars with only 650. Hell if U look at the numbers, even the 580 ZL1 isn't far off its 0-60 numbers. Hence the reason why the Charger HC can pull 11.8 sec @ 124.3 mph, .5sec less, and 9mph more than the ZL1, but its insignificant 0-60 is 3.7 vs the 3.9 by the ZL1. That's with over 127 more hp. Hence me loving the engine.. but not even remotely impressed with the car. I maintain that it is relevant in cars like a Camry.. a Prius.. a Malibu.. a Cruze.. a Focus... a Taurus.. a Tahoe.. a Murano, but not in a Vette, Mustang, GT599, 911 Turbo, GTR, CTS-V. After a car hits the 60 mph mark in less than 4.5 secs.. U kno that it becomes more and more pointless because at a point its all about the traction at take off, or lack of.  

 

 

 

Holy crapola, you and I agree on something!!

 

 

Yes, a Veyron and GT-R have the same 0-60. Let's see how the GT-R compares in a 70-roll!! Totally worthless metric in this discussion.

[smk4565]

I think the Mercedes transmission in comfort mode still kicks down to 1st if you floor it. I will try it later on. I always use sport mode because my car has a dead pedal feel on initial tip in.

[ccap41]

 

 

0-60 times mean dick for how a car feels in the real world. How on Earth are so-called enthusiasts STILL forgetting this? Look at a standard 911's 0-60 time. It's quicker than a lot of much higher powered cars. But out on the streets, it feels worlds slower than a Charger RT. I know, I just drove the two back to back last week.

Even from a stand still? That's hard to believe because of the AWD vs RWD. Are the turbos that big that there is all sorts of lag as well? I would have thought the lighter weight, AWD, and low end turbo tq would have made it feel quicker 

 

 

 

This was a 991.1 C2. So pre-turbo. I was very surprised by sluggish it felt. Still amazing to drive, though!

 

Credit my poor reading comprehension there.. I guess when I read 911 I just thought 911 Turbo and I don't know why. My bad. That's why I was all talking turbos and AWD... oops! 

I think the Mercedes transmission in comfort mode still kicks down to 1st if you floor it. I will try it later on. I always use sport mode because my car has a dead pedal feel on initial tip in.

Good point.. I never paid attention to that. 

 

Do that and answer that question for us! Actually, even if it did kick down it would be probably losing more time in the downshift than it would gain if it just stayed in 2nd. 

[Drew Dowdell]

So we're agreed then.  The S-Class doesn't have a 9-speed, it has an 8-speed with a vestigial gear that is hardly ever used and only serves to cause problems.... .like an appendix. 

[surreal1272]

So we're agreed then.  The S-Class doesn't have a 9-speed, it has an 8-speed with a vestigial gear that is hardly ever used and only serves to cause problems.... .like an appendix. 

I don't know. That extra gear sounds more like it's a weenie wart for the transmission more than anything else.

[smk4565]

The 2016 S-class has a 7 speed actually, the 2017 models will switch to the 9 speed that is in some cars already.

But I did check my owner's manual and test it. In comfort setting from a dead stop, if you floor it, the car will launch in 1st gear. However if in comfort and rolling at 5-10 mph and floor it, it stays in 2nd. If you want to use first then just keep it in sport.

The benefit of that comfort setting is 2nd gear launches in snow or slippery roads, which is more beneficial to the rear drove cars bug could help with add ones too. It also is favorable to the elderly that want a more sedate drive.

Also to consider is every Mercedes has paddle shifters so you can pick your gear also. And they also have two speed reverse, so comfort setting would reverse in 2nd gear and not be as quick.

[surreal1272]

The 2016 S-class has a 7 speed actually, the 2017 models will switch to the 9 speed that is in some cars already.

But I did check my owner's manual and test it. In comfort setting from a dead stop, if you floor it, the car will launch in 1st gear. However if in comfort and rolling at 5-10 mph and floor it, it stays in 2nd. If you want to use first then just keep it in sport.

The benefit of that comfort setting is 2nd gear launches in snow or slippery roads, which is more beneficial to the rear drove cars bug could help with add ones too. It also is favorable to the elderly that want a more sedate drive.

Also to consider is every Mercedes has paddle shifters so you can pick your gear also. And they also have two speed reverse, so comfort setting would reverse in 2nd gear and not be as quick.

Well, as long as you have an excuse for it SMK, that's okay.

[Drew Dowdell]

The 2016 S-class has a 7 speed actually, the 2017 models will switch to the 9 speed that is in some cars already.

But I did check my owner's manual and test it. In comfort setting from a dead stop, if you floor it, the car will launch in 1st gear. However if in comfort and rolling at 5-10 mph and floor it, it stays in 2nd. If you want to use first then just keep it in sport.

The benefit of that comfort setting is 2nd gear launches in snow or slippery roads, which is more beneficial to the rear drove cars bug could help with add ones too. It also is favorable to the elderly that want a more sedate drive.

Also to consider is every Mercedes has paddle shifters so you can pick your gear also. And they also have two speed reverse, so comfort setting would reverse in 2nd gear and not be as quick.

 

So the S-Class has two fewer gears than the CT6..... and the same number as the new Continental.   Two speeds in reverse on a passenger car is just complexity for the sake of complexity. 

[balthazar]

{foresees the end of the forward gear count race… morphing into the reverse gear count race…}

[ccap41]

The 2016 S-class has a 7 speed actually, the 2017 models will switch to the 9 speed that is in some cars already.

But I did check my owner's manual and test it. In comfort setting from a dead stop, if you floor it, the car will launch in 1st gear. However if in comfort and rolling at 5-10 mph and floor it, it stays in 2nd. If you want to use first then just keep it in sport.

The benefit of that comfort setting is 2nd gear launches in snow or slippery roads, which is more beneficial to the rear drove cars bug could help with add ones too. It also is favorable to the elderly that want a more sedate drive.

Also to consider is every Mercedes has paddle shifters so you can pick your gear also. And they also have two speed reverse, so comfort setting would reverse in 2nd gear and not be as quick.

See, I find this as good information. Thanks for the info smk.

Two reverse gears does sound a little silly in ANY car but whatever.. Lol as long as they don't have trans issues then it may be complexity to be complex but as long as it neve hampers the owners then it's nothing to complain about.

[ccap41]

The 2016 S-class has a 7 speed actually, the 2017 models will switch to the 9 speed that is in some cars already.

But I did check my owner's manual and test it. In comfort setting from a dead stop, if you floor it, the car will launch in 1st gear. However if in comfort and rolling at 5-10 mph and floor it, it stays in 2nd. If you want to use first then just keep it in sport.

The benefit of that comfort setting is 2nd gear launches in snow or slippery roads, which is more beneficial to the rear drove cars bug could help with add ones too. It also is favorable to the elderly that want a more sedate drive.

Also to consider is every Mercedes has paddle shifters so you can pick your gear also. And they also have two speed reverse, so comfort setting would reverse in 2nd gear and not be as quick.

 

So the S-Class has two fewer gears than the CT6..... and the same number as the new Continental.   Two speeds in reverse on a passenger car is just complexity for the sake of complexity.

What? It still used all 9 forward gears(assumingit reacts like the current 7spds to). If you're stopped and hammer it you'll use 1st, the only time it is really needed anyway. That 2nd reverse gear(while I don't understand it) doesn't count in the forward gear count.

Personally, after driving a Mercedes 7spd I don't see the complaint of comfort mode skipping 1st at all. I loved how smooth it accelerated from a stop because every vehicle I've been in 1st is always the harshest,loudest and(obviously) the shortest. Starting in 2nd by CHOICE is a great thing.

If the trans didn't have 2 different modes and ONLY relied on initial throttle tip-in to decide to use 1st or 2nd I wouldn't like. But having the choice of different drive modes I don't understand the complaint.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

The 2016 S-class has a 7 speed actually, the 2017 models will switch to the 9 speed that is in some cars already.

But I did check my owner's manual and test it. In comfort setting from a dead stop, if you floor it, the car will launch in 1st gear. However if in comfort and rolling at 5-10 mph and floor it, it stays in 2nd. If you want to use first then just keep it in sport.

The benefit of that comfort setting is 2nd gear launches in snow or slippery roads, which is more beneficial to the rear drove cars bug could help with add ones too. It also is favorable to the elderly that want a more sedate drive.

Also to consider is every Mercedes has paddle shifters so you can pick your gear also. And they also have two speed reverse, so comfort setting would reverse in 2nd gear and not be as quick.

 

So the S-Class has two fewer gears than the CT6..... and the same number as the new Continental.   Two speeds in reverse on a passenger car is just complexity for the sake of complexity.

What? It still used all 9 forward gears(assumingit reacts like the current 7spds to). If you're stopped and hammer it you'll use 1st, the only time it is really needed anyway. That 2nd reverse gear(while I don't understand it) doesn't count in the forward gear count.

Personally, after driving a Mercedes 7spd I don't see the complaint of comfort mode skipping 1st at all. I loved how smooth it accelerated from a stop because every vehicle I've been in 1st is always the harshest,loudest and(obviously) the shortest. Starting in 2nd by CHOICE is a great thing.

If the trans didn't have 2 different modes and ONLY relied on initial throttle tip-in to decide to use 1st or 2nd I wouldn't like. But having the choice of different drive modes I don't understand the complaint.

 

 

I'm mostly just twisting SMK.  I really have no problem with the number of gears a car has as long as it delivers the performance I'm looking for at the price.  SMK will latch on to some singular specification in an American brand car that is, in his eyes, proof that <American Brand X> is inferior to the Benz.  Look how he harps on the Continental having a 6-speed when the Benzes with 7-speeds operate as 6-speeds 99.9999999% of the time. Look at how he is trying to twist the Cadillac 3.0TT into a failure because it is 0.1 seconds behind a Benz with a much larger and much more powerful engine (when its actually a huge win for Cadillac).   He'll latch onto these numbers that are absolutely irrelevant to the sales process and try to spin them as gospel.  What's also fun is watching him move the goal posts around the field when one or another of his favorite statistics no longer applies or changes things up by making apples to oranges comparisons (Cadillac 3.0TT v Audi 4.0TT while ignoring the Audi 3.0 S/C anyone?)

 

No one is going to walk into a Cadillac dealership intent on buying a CT6 and then turn around and walk out without buying because it is 0.1 seconds slower to 60.  No one is going to walk into a Lincoln dealership intent on buying a Continental and then walk out without buying because it has one fewer forward speed than an E-Class.  No one is going to walk into a Cadillac dealership intent on buying an XT5 AWD and then turn around and walk out because of the direction the engine is facing.  People become interested in a car for what a car looks like, a specific price, or a specific image they see in themselves...not because of dumb statistics like this. 

 

As for the Benz transmission specifically.  I have no problems with it.  It operates smoothly and as it should. 

[ccap41]

 

 

 

The 2016 S-class has a 7 speed actually, the 2017 models will switch to the 9 speed that is in some cars already.

But I did check my owner's manual and test it. In comfort setting from a dead stop, if you floor it, the car will launch in 1st gear. However if in comfort and rolling at 5-10 mph and floor it, it stays in 2nd. If you want to use first then just keep it in sport.

The benefit of that comfort setting is 2nd gear launches in snow or slippery roads, which is more beneficial to the rear drove cars bug could help with add ones too. It also is favorable to the elderly that want a more sedate drive.

Also to consider is every Mercedes has paddle shifters so you can pick your gear also. And they also have two speed reverse, so comfort setting would reverse in 2nd gear and not be as quick.

 

So the S-Class has two fewer gears than the CT6..... and the same number as the new Continental.   Two speeds in reverse on a passenger car is just complexity for the sake of complexity.

What? It still used all 9 forward gears(assumingit reacts like the current 7spds to). If you're stopped and hammer it you'll use 1st, the only time it is really needed anyway. That 2nd reverse gear(while I don't understand it) doesn't count in the forward gear count.

Personally, after driving a Mercedes 7spd I don't see the complaint of comfort mode skipping 1st at all. I loved how smooth it accelerated from a stop because every vehicle I've been in 1st is always the harshest,loudest and(obviously) the shortest. Starting in 2nd by CHOICE is a great thing.

If the trans didn't have 2 different modes and ONLY relied on initial throttle tip-in to decide to use 1st or 2nd I wouldn't like. But having the choice of different drive modes I don't understand the complaint.

 

 

I'm mostly just twisting SMK.  I really have no problem with the number of gears a car has as long as it delivers the performance I'm looking for at the price.  SMK will latch on to some singular specification in an American brand car that is, in his eyes, proof that <American Brand X> is inferior to the Benz.  Look how he harps on the Continental having a 6-speed when the Benzes with 7-speeds operate as 6-speeds 99.9999999% of the time. Look at how he is trying to twist the Cadillac 3.0TT into a failure because it is 0.1 seconds behind a Benz with a much larger and much more powerful engine (when its actually a huge win for Cadillac).   He'll latch onto these numbers that are absolutely irrelevant to the sales process and try to spin them as gospel.  What's also fun is watching him move the goal posts around the field when one or another of his favorite statistics no longer applies or changes things up by making apples to oranges comparisons (Cadillac 3.0TT v Audi 4.0TT while ignoring the Audi 3.0 S/C anyone?)

 

No one is going to walk into a Cadillac dealership intent on buying a CT6 and then turn around and walk out without buying because it is 0.1 seconds slower to 60.  No one is going to walk into a Lincoln dealership intent on buying a Continental and then walk out without buying because it has one fewer forward speed than an E-Class.  No one is going to walk into a Cadillac dealership intent on buying an XT5 AWD and then turn around and walk out because of the direction the engine is facing.  People become interested in a car for what a car looks like, a specific price, or a specific image they see in themselves...not because of dumb statistics like this. 

 

As for the Benz transmission specifically.  I have no problems with it.  It operates smoothly and as it should. 

 

Ahhhh I gotcha I gotcha and you are completely correct about all of those reasons people won't walk out of a dealership. Some people just grasp onto certain numbers, for whatever reason, and try and use them as the end-all be-all for a car. 

[smk4565]

My issue with the CT6 was all the fan boys saying that the CT6 V6 would be faster than the German V8s.  I all along said that V6 wasn't enough and the car needed a V8.  But so many still said, no way, because it weighs the same as a CTS it would be fast.  Well the TT V6 is slower than all the German V8s, the S550 is the slowest one.

 

The CT6 is just an odd car anyway, it doesn't really compete with an of the big German sedans, it is priced more like an E-class but is a foot longer.  Maybe it is better compared to an E-class.

 

As far as the Benz transmission goes, you use all 7 gears in the standard setting, only if you use comfort does it skip first gear, and not when under full throttle.  They have 2 reverse gears because they are engineered unlike any other car.  What if you wanted to go 55 mph in reverse?  Mercedes engineers their cars beyond the limits of normal driving.

[Drew Dowdell]

My issue with the CT6 was all the fan boys saying that the CT6 V6 would be faster than the German V8s.  I all along said that V6 wasn't enough and the car needed a V8.  But so many still said, no way, because it weighs the same as a CTS it would be fast.  Well the TT V6 is slower than all the German V8s, the S550 is the slowest one.

 

The CT6 and S-Class are statistically identical. It is down 49hp and 112 lb-ft of torque compared to the Benz 4.7, and the only way you could tell the difference is with a high speed camera.

 

The CT6 V8 is coming as well, along with a possible V-Sport. 

 

 

 

As far as the Benz transmission goes, you use all 7 gears in the standard setting, only if you use comfort does it skip first gear, and not when under full throttle.  

 

That was not my experience in the CLS400. Both Normal and comfort modes you started in 2... and 1st gear was far too jumpy for normal driving.

[surreal1272]

My issue with the CT6 was all the fan boys saying that the CT6 V6 would be faster than the German V8s.  I all along said that V6 wasn't enough and the car needed a V8.  But so many still said, no way, because it weighs the same as a CTS it would be fast.  Well the TT V6 is slower than all the German V8s, the S550 is the slowest one.

 

The CT6 is just an odd car anyway, it doesn't really compete with an of the big German sedans, it is priced more like an E-class but is a foot longer.  Maybe it is better compared to an E-class.

 

As far as the Benz transmission goes, you use all 7 gears in the standard setting, only if you use comfort does it skip first gear, and not when under full throttle.  They have 2 reverse gears because they are engineered unlike any other car.  What if you wanted to go 55 mph in reverse?  Mercedes engineers their cars beyond the limits of normal driving.

How many times does Drew have to tell you what the deal is here? Good grief man. You sound like a broken record. Sorry, but I would not hang my hat on an overpriced V8 that beats a cheaper V6 by .1 of a second. It is simply asinine to keep hanging your head on that.

 

Speaking of engineering beyond one's limits, are you referring to one of the many issues that can pop up here (with special attention being made to number 6)?

http://www.mercedesmedic.com/mercedes-transmission-problems-limp-mode-no-shifting-troubleshooting-tips/

Edited March 17, 2016 by surreal1272

[Drew Dowdell]

It might be a good thing that Benzes are engineered like any other... I had to call the fleet rep to deal with an issue with the power windows not sealing.