2015 BMW M4 vs. 2016 Chevrolet Camaro SS

[surreal1272]

Need anymore be said about the performance of the new Camaro? This sums it up nicely,

 

"Hats off once again to Camaro boss Al Oppenheiser and his team. They took on Germany’s performance standard-bearer, objectively tied it, and subjectively blackened the M4’s eye."

 

Read more:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/comparison-2015-bmw-m4-vs-2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss/?sm_id=social_aumomotortrendhub_MotorTrend_20160303_58923156&adbid=10153544176401312&adbpl=fb&adbpr=18332466311

Edited March 3, 2016 by surreal1272

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

We get that the M-Division’s hand was (probably) forced to produce a turbocharged motivator for the M3/M4. However, we do not get the noise this thing makes. “It’s possibly the coarsest straight-six ever,” Cammisa said. “It sounds like a Cuisinart choking on concrete. Scott Evans described its cold idle as ‘one of those small, portable air compressors you plug into the lighter socket.’ He’s dead on.” That’s on the outside. Inside’s worse, and it’s made no better by the fake engine noise pumped in through the M4’s speakers. “BMW’s active sound management amounts to little more than spraying air freshener to drown out nasty bathroom smells,” Cammisa said. It’s fake, and noticeably so.

 

Ouch!  So much for the old tech I-6 advantage. 

[Suaviloquent]

Yup, very tasty.

[surreal1272]

The one thing that is concerning is that this makes the ATS look bad in terms of value. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the ATS-V lose to the M4 not so long ago (not in performance so much, but overall)?

 

 

 

We get that the M-Division’s hand was (probably) forced to produce a turbocharged motivator for the M3/M4. However, we do not get the noise this thing makes. “It’s possibly the coarsest straight-six ever,” Cammisa said. “It sounds like a Cuisinart choking on concrete. Scott Evans described its cold idle as ‘one of those small, portable air compressors you plug into the lighter socket.’ He’s dead on.” That’s on the outside. Inside’s worse, and it’s made no better by the fake engine noise pumped in through the M4’s speakers. “BMW’s active sound management amounts to little more than spraying air freshener to drown out nasty bathroom smells,” Cammisa said. It’s fake, and noticeably so.

 

Ouch!  So much for the old tech I-6 advantage. 

 

That is a pretty brutal assessment by them.

[cp-the-nerd]

The one thing that is concerning is that this makes the ATS look bad in terms of value. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the ATS-V lose to the M4 not so long ago (not in performance so much, but overall)?

 

 

 

We get that the M-Division’s hand was (probably) forced to produce a turbocharged motivator for the M3/M4. However, we do not get the noise this thing makes. “It’s possibly the coarsest straight-six ever,” Cammisa said. “It sounds like a Cuisinart choking on concrete. Scott Evans described its cold idle as ‘one of those small, portable air compressors you plug into the lighter socket.’ He’s dead on.” That’s on the outside. Inside’s worse, and it’s made no better by the fake engine noise pumped in through the M4’s speakers. “BMW’s active sound management amounts to little more than spraying air freshener to drown out nasty bathroom smells,” Cammisa said. It’s fake, and noticeably so.

 

Ouch!  So much for the old tech I-6 advantage. 

 

That is a pretty brutal assessment by them.

 

I think they crossed over into meaningless hyperbole land with that one. During the ATS-V, M3, AMG comparison, they had nothing bad to say about the BMW's sound and only ripped on the ATS, which by most accounts is still a pretty good sounding performance V6.

 

I'm glad the Camaro SS got its win, but I hate meaningless hyperbole in journalism.

Edited March 3, 2016 by cp-the-nerd

[Suaviloquent]

The Camaro, equipped correctly is the better performance car to the ATS-V coupe.

 

Not because it's actually better because they made it more special. I just think they should reconsider not small blocking all the performance things in Cadillac.

 

I think the LF4 would make a great VSport engine. Great for the refresh of the CTS in a couple of years.

 

But the V8 - it's the best performance engine GM makes, the small block, and if it's good for beating Porsches, then it's good for beating the roundel and the tri-star.

 

Oh wait- it just beat the roundel - and for all the objective and subjective reasons mentioned.

 

I think BMW has really sunk its engines into the toilet. The i8 has a 3-cylinder after all.

[Drew Dowdell]

I probably agree with you CP.  During my own drive of the M4, my impression of the engine was that it was dull with absolutely zero character.  While driving it I was thinking "I don't understand what all the fuss is about..."

[Suaviloquent]

I dunno why they gave the looks win to the BMW. I mean, really both cars should be tied for styling, since they carry over much of the styling of their predecessors. 

[cp-the-nerd]

The Camaro, equipped correctly is the better performance car to the ATS-V coupe.

 

Not because it's actually better because they made it more special. I just think they should reconsider not small blocking all the performance things in Cadillac.

 

I think the LF4 would make a great VSport engine. Great for the refresh of the CTS in a couple of years.

 

But the V8 - it's the best performance engine GM makes, the small block, and if it's good for beating Porsches, then it's good for beating the roundel and the tri-star.

 

Oh wait- it just beat the roundel - and for all the objective and subjective reasons mentioned.

 

I think BMW has really sunk its engines into the toilet. The i8 has a 3-cylinder after all.

 

The ATS-V already beat the BMW M3 in a comparison, and it straight up out-lapped it as well.

 

I don't mind the Cadillac having its own engine, it has its benefits. A tuned ATS-V will walk away from a tuned Camaro SS. Let GM's performance portfolio be as broad and interesting as possible while we're still in this enthusiast-driven era.

[surreal1272]

 

The Camaro, equipped correctly is the better performance car to the ATS-V coupe.

 

Not because it's actually better because they made it more special. I just think they should reconsider not small blocking all the performance things in Cadillac.

 

I think the LF4 would make a great VSport engine. Great for the refresh of the CTS in a couple of years.

 

But the V8 - it's the best performance engine GM makes, the small block, and if it's good for beating Porsches, then it's good for beating the roundel and the tri-star.

 

Oh wait- it just beat the roundel - and for all the objective and subjective reasons mentioned.

 

I think BMW has really sunk its engines into the toilet. The i8 has a 3-cylinder after all.

 

The ATS-V already beat the BMW M3 in a comparison, and it straight up out-lapped it as well.

 

I don't mind the Cadillac having its own engine, it has its benefits. A tuned ATS-V will walk away from a tuned Camaro SS. Let GM's performance portfolio be as broad and interesting as possible while we're still in this enthusiast-driven era.

 

That is, honestly, a comparison I would like to see. 

 

How about Drew? The 2016 Camaro SS vs. ATS-V! Let's settle this once and for all!

Edited March 3, 2016 by surreal1272

[El Kabong]

No need to choose. But it would be fun to see.

The best part of this article was when they suggested they might put it up against AMGs and Porsches.

One way or another, it definitely redefines the ponycar segment. And the 1LE has yet to drop!

[smk4565]

First off this is a luxury car vs a non-luxury car.  This is sort of like comparing an S-class coupe to a Porsche 911 and evaluating the two on luxury features and interior space only and picking a winner.  

 

That being said, the M division is showing some signs of weakness as of late.  The numb steering is plaguing a lot of BMW cars, and they keep making the cars bigger and heavier which does them no favors either.  They should have kept the old M3's 4.0 liter V8 and turbo charged it, at the same time keeping the M5's 5.0 liter V10 and turbo charging that.  Those were special engines and they dumped them for a higher boost 335i engine and higher boost 550i V8.  

 

And obviously AMG kept the V8 in the C63, now BMW has a pretty big power gap there.  And even to go a step farther, they could have taken the easy way out and used the S550 engine in the C63, it would have had plenty of power and torque, but they didn't do that.  They designed a sports car engine for the GT and C63, because they wanted a unique sound and characteristics for those cars.

Edited March 5, 2016 by smk4565

[Suaviloquent]

For all intents and purposes you take off the sheet metal and strip the interiors of both cars and they would be luxury work in process vehicles.

 

Well, with all that CF and CC Matrix brakes, the M4 does weight less than the Camaro. 

 

What's weird though is that Motor-trend has fully 180'd on their opinion of the sound of the M4.

 

But that is what happens when you put a boosted 6 next to a V8 - one of the better American ones at that.

[surreal1272]

First off this is a luxury car vs a non-luxury car.  This is sort of like comparing an S-class coupe to a Porsche 911 and evaluating the two on luxury features and interior space only and picking a winner.  

 

That being said, the M division is showing some signs of weakness as of late.  The numb steering is plaguing a lot of BMW cars, and they keep making the cars bigger and heavier which does them no favors either.  They should have kept the old M3's 4.0 liter V8 and turbo charged it, at the same time keeping the M5's 5.0 liter V10 and turbo charging that.  Those were special engines and they dumped them for a higher boost 335i engine and higher boost 550i V8.  

 

And obviously AMG kept the V8 in the C63, now BMW has a pretty big power gap there.  And even to go a step farther, they could have taken the easy way out and used the S550 engine in the C63, it would have had plenty of power and torque, but they didn't do that.  They designed a sports car engine for the GT and C63, because they wanted a unique sound and characteristics for those cars.

To your first sentence, I say "duh". That was not the point though. The point was that the SS put that M4 to shame in the performance department, thus redefining the performance to dollar ratio argument. The SS is just proving to be that good and that should be respected.

[G. David Felt]

 

First off this is a luxury car vs a non-luxury car.  This is sort of like comparing an S-class coupe to a Porsche 911 and evaluating the two on luxury features and interior space only and picking a winner.  

 

That being said, the M division is showing some signs of weakness as of late.  The numb steering is plaguing a lot of BMW cars, and they keep making the cars bigger and heavier which does them no favors either.  They should have kept the old M3's 4.0 liter V8 and turbo charged it, at the same time keeping the M5's 5.0 liter V10 and turbo charging that.  Those were special engines and they dumped them for a higher boost 335i engine and higher boost 550i V8.  

 

And obviously AMG kept the V8 in the C63, now BMW has a pretty big power gap there.  And even to go a step farther, they could have taken the easy way out and used the S550 engine in the C63, it would have had plenty of power and torque, but they didn't do that.  They designed a sports car engine for the GT and C63, because they wanted a unique sound and characteristics for those cars.

To your first sentence, I say "duh". That was not the point though. The point was that the SS put that M4 to shame in the performance department, thus redefining the performance to dollar ratio argument. The SS is just proving to be that good and that should be respected.

 

Lets take this to the next logical step which is the Entry level auto brand is surpassing a Luxury Level Name Plate showing they are living off their past glory and not really making a quality product that people should and would want to spend the extra money on.

 

Lately there are plenty of Audi / BMW / MB products that I question the $$$ being spent when you can get superior product from other luxury and lower level auto companies.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

The Camaro, equipped correctly is the better performance car to the ATS-V coupe.

 

Not because it's actually better because they made it more special. I just think they should reconsider not small blocking all the performance things in Cadillac.

 

I think the LF4 would make a great VSport engine. Great for the refresh of the CTS in a couple of years.

 

But the V8 - it's the best performance engine GM makes, the small block, and if it's good for beating Porsches, then it's good for beating the roundel and the tri-star.

 

Oh wait- it just beat the roundel - and for all the objective and subjective reasons mentioned.

 

I think BMW has really sunk its engines into the toilet. The i8 has a 3-cylinder after all.

 

The ATS-V already beat the BMW M3 in a comparison, and it straight up out-lapped it as well.

 

I don't mind the Cadillac having its own engine, it has its benefits. A tuned ATS-V will walk away from a tuned Camaro SS. Let GM's performance portfolio be as broad and interesting as possible while we're still in this enthusiast-driven era.

 

 

 

This^^^. I give the LT1 and Fam props all day long.. and at one point truly championed the idea of the Small Block in everything that Cadillac did with a V8 or V8 Power, even going on record that the SBC should have been the replacement for the Northstar in the 2004-2010 era. The thing is that Cadillac needs to have its own engines.. not even for the sake of the performance, but for the sake of luxury buyer arrogance. Sad but true. Despite this win.. I bet good money that there are some in the comments section who are still saying.. "its still just a Chevy engine." Hell they say that $h! about the LT4, LS9, and LS7 before it.

 

The Camaro/Camaro SS is an ATS/ATS-V with a newer wrapper and new tech by default of time.. that is 2012 vs 2015. Anyone that thinks that the upcoming CT3 (ATS Replacement) isn't gonna make the current Camaro look old is simply insane and should be talked to seriously.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

The Camaro, equipped correctly is the better performance car to the ATS-V coupe.

 

Not because it's actually better because they made it more special. I just think they should reconsider not small blocking all the performance things in Cadillac.

 

I think the LF4 would make a great VSport engine. Great for the refresh of the CTS in a couple of years.

 

But the V8 - it's the best performance engine GM makes, the small block, and if it's good for beating Porsches, then it's good for beating the roundel and the tri-star.

 

Oh wait- it just beat the roundel - and for all the objective and subjective reasons mentioned.

 

I think BMW has really sunk its engines into the toilet. The i8 has a 3-cylinder after all.

 

The ATS-V already beat the BMW M3 in a comparison, and it straight up out-lapped it as well.

 

I don't mind the Cadillac having its own engine, it has its benefits. A tuned ATS-V will walk away from a tuned Camaro SS. Let GM's performance portfolio be as broad and interesting as possible while we're still in this enthusiast-driven era.

 

That is, honestly, a comparison I would like to see. 

 

How about Drew? The 2016 Camaro SS vs. ATS-V! Let's settle this once and for all!

 

 

 

I would like to see this two. After driving both Camaro SS and ATS-V I walked away from the experience preferring the ATS-V in the performance area while preferring the Camaro in the.. gasp..  interior and tech area. Crazy right. Again.. the tell tale sign of TIME. 

[smk4565]

I'd like to see the ATS-V get the new Cadillac 4.2 liter V8.  And use the 3.0TT engine as a mid-level ATS engine, even if they detune it to like 380 hp.  Or this would be all on CT3 I suppose.  2.0T, 3.0 TT and 4.2 V8 on the CT3-V.  Throw in some diesel or hybrid option and you are set.

 

The Camaro SS has great performance, but I think also we are hitting a performance wall.  It used to be very few cars could hit 60 in 4.5 seconds or less, that was Ferrari territory 15 years ago, but now there are dozens of cars with 4.5 seconds 0-60 times.  The Camaro SS is really fast, it is as fast as a 2013 Corvette, so the numbers are impressive.  But there gets to be a limit where it is hard to keep making cars faster, so eventually lines start to blur.

 

Car and Driver recently had a comparo with a Mustang and a Corvette and the Mustang won.  So these pony cars aren't just a big engine in a crap chassis anymore, the performance is trickling down into them, but at the same time I think that was a GT350 and was like $70,000.  And I wouldn't want to pay $70k for a Mustang.

[Frisky Dingo]

Total BS article, but the results aren't surprising, and I don't totally disagree with them.

 

 

The Camaro is so great until they compare the GT350 to it, and then they'll be dissing it left and right. Just like they did the Z/28. Then the 1LE will come out, and it'll have them creaming themselves.

 

 

It's gotten so bad I can't even take these guys or anyone else seriously anymore.

[William Maley]

Total BS article, but the results aren't surprising, and I don't totally disagree with them.

 

 

The Camaro is so great until they compare the GT350 to it, and then they'll be dissing it left and right. Just like they did the Z/28. Then the 1LE will come out, and it'll have them creaming themselves.

 

 

It's gotten so bad I can't even take these guys or anyone else seriously anymore.

 

It is the endless cycle of trying to generate views and controversy. Let's take vehicles that 'compete' and put them head to head. Is it stupid? Yes.

Does it work..? *looks at thread* Yes

[oldshurst442]

I dont like hyperbolic journalism.

 

Motor Trend did the same type of thing when they had Randy Pobst do the Ford Mustang GT350 and the Zeta Camaro Z/28 comparison a couple of months ago and Pobst did not like the ride in that comparison yet a year prior the ride in the Camaro was a non-issue...

 

With this...ALL OF A SUDDEN...the I6 rumble is inferior?

Funny, back in the 1990s, there was no problem...in fact, Motor Trend continually had multiple orgasms with BMW's I6 and were not as supportive of the Chevy V8...

 

I learned waaaaaay back then that automotive journalists are paid courtesans...hookers to you and me...courtesans to the automobile execs.

This time around, its in favor of what I love...as compared to the 1990s when it was ironically, the complete opposite...

 

Yeah, I get it, BMW was pure focus back then and GM/Chevy, had lost its way and now the shoe is on the other foot...

Not really though...for any decade concerning BMW or GM/Chevy.

 

The M4 is still a formidable machine.

The 1990s Camaro, if not for the interior quality and such, the powertrain was all business.

 

BLAH for the journalistic method of trying to convey a message.

There is no reason to kick BMW the way they did...

And this coming from a guy that HATES BMW with a PASSION!

[surreal1272]

Some of you are looking at this comparo all wrong. It was more to highlight how far the Camaro has come by comparing it to the upper crust of performance world (luxury performance in the case of the M4 but I digress). Yes, it's a little silly but this has been done for decades so this style of journalism is not new. IT also highlights the difference paths the two countries have taken, in regards to performance in this CAFE age.

[oldshurst442]

True, Surreal...but its still BLAH for that type of journalistic method.

Actually, a piece of literature like that, and it just diminishes the credibility...for me at least.

 

The Camaro has come a long way?

I doubt anybody denies that...

 

Motor Trend wants to convey that message?

They could be less highschool boyish  in their descriptions...

 

If they want to cater to the highschool crowd, that is fine too...like I said though, their credibility is not very high on my list though...

[Suaviloquent]

I will say, I'm a person who not that fond of BMW as of their newest products since 2012. They have just fallen off a cliff in order to get sales.

 

At the auto show, I could not understand the fuss over their vehicles. The only one I actually liked was the new 7 Series, which had a much improved interior.

 

But also, I saw how the Camaro and Mustang were not getting that much attention. Maybe it's a Saturday thing - but the Vette Verts kept drawing ugggge crowds. Also Ford Gt and GT350.

 

I think what's happened to BMW is that they make competent vehicles - but they've really lost the special sauce - the McDonald's Mighty Angus Sauce (damn good burger I must say)...and now they're like the Toyota of the luxury car. Atypical, not much evolution, lots of Green-washing like the Prius...aka i8...

 

Yeah. And BMW will offer autonomous technologies in their M cars, and then they'll be the Ultimate Driverless Machines. I wonder how badly that will fall on its face in the minds of their core enthusiasts. You'll see a revolt, like the GOP race. Very much, yes, si senor...