Drag Race: Tesla Model S vs Tesla Model X

Cory Wolfe · February 16, 2016

Tesla Model S vs Tesla Model X - Dragtimes.com

Husband vs wife, sedan vs crossover, insanely fast vs unimaginably fast; All are accurate ways to describe this comparison of Teslas. The latter of which was quick enough to claim a World Record run for a crossover (or so the article states) of 11.61 seconds at 116 mph. Crazier yet is that it managed to hit 60 mph in only 3.1 seconds. Don't take it from me, though, watch the video below.

Mind = Blown.

ccap41 · February 16, 2016

That's just freakin' awesome!

Is it just me ooooorrrrr as I watch those videos I'm always just waiting to see a shift(vehicle buck up and down) like a "normal" car??? Usually you can visually see the shift points on cars and as I watch these my instincts are waiting for a shift and, obviously, they don't happen.

These cars are just crazy. It boggles my mind how people(on here) can dislike them so much when they're doing such amazing things.

hyperv6 · February 17, 2016

Now lets see them do 500 miles at Daytona? That is in 3 hours. Then I will be impressed.

Hell even a Volt could be tuned to do much faster times if you wanted it to. These are electric motors nothing new.

I spun the tires on the GM power cell car down the street once too. [Yes I was permitted when I asked to do it}

This is just Torque.

G. David Felt · February 17, 2016

Shows great Torque and I love the reduced noise level and lack of fumes. Yes traditional drag racing is still cool, but I love what EV will bring to the party.

hyperv6 · February 17, 2016

Garlits was working to run 200 MPH in a EV rail. I think it got side tracked with his age. He is just not as sharp as he once was at 200 MPH.

They could get the Greek Chris Karamesines as he is still running 320 MPH and he and Don are still friends.

I saw Chis run well over 300 just last summer. He is only in his mid 80's and still sharp.

Suaviloquent · February 18, 2016

Model X. The all-new electric viagara.

Instant flow...er...okay R-rated section.

ocnblu · February 18, 2016

Devoid of everything that made me grow up loving motor vehicles. The complete antithesis of what makes motoring great. Soulless, remote controlled and disconnected. Ugly on top of everything, parallels, Elon Musk and his insanity, along with his cars, which have a blank face, emotionless. The anti-car. Nothing good will come of this. Mark my words, if not today, but in due time.

FAPTurbo · February 18, 2016

The feckless, whimpering tears of Tesla haters is the most beautiful automotive soundtrack of all.

G. David Felt · February 18, 2016

Devoid of everything that made me grow up loving motor vehicles. The complete antithesis of what makes motoring great. Soulless, remote controlled and disconnected. Ugly on top of everything, parallels, Elon Musk and his insanity, along with his cars, which have a blank face, emotionless. The anti-car. Nothing good will come of this. Mark my words, if not today, but in due time.

Ocn you need to get out and drive an EV, they are not soulless, disconnected remote controlled droids. They can when done right give you all the passion of any other petrol powered auto. Find a Fisker and drive it, you will be amazed at the performance and fun.

Model X. The all-new electric viagara.

Instant flow...er...okay R-rated section.

Agreed, I could Drive his wife too!

oldshurst442 · February 18, 2016

Shows great Torque and I love the reduced noise level and lack of fumes. Yes traditional drag racing is still cool, but I love what EV will bring to the party.

Instantaneous torque...

What is there NOT to love?

Although I like those V8 gasoline fumes...I miss it...

From time to time, an old school muscle car will drive right in front of me and I take a deeeep breath just to smell those fumes...

But...a BIG but, I cant wait for the day when the internal combustion engine is laid out to pasture.

It may not be in my lifetime...but Im certainly ready to embrace the next generation of the horseless carriage...

Im so ready, that if I ever build myself a muscle car in my retirement...a 1970 Oldsmobile 442, I might just swap the A-Body frame for an electric Tesla platform frame...or hopefully a GM engineered 100% battery platform and slide the 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass body on top of it...

Something like this...

We visit Tesla (in this case) for their Tesla Model S frame with the battery packs...

And instead of mating the Model S body unto it...

We order a Dynacorn A-Body Shell from Year One

And through miracle blacksmith fabrication _{(it CAN be done...the Hot Rod movement is a testament to what I wanna do...hey...if I could dream a little dream and maybe make it come true, maybe Id be making Hot Rod history in the meantime too...)}I fit the 1970 A-Body on it...then we proceed to make it look like a 442... with all the Tesla software AND hardware...just the skin on the outside will be Oldsmobile 442...

The first 4 could represent Tesla, Oldsmobile, GM and Dynacorn/Year One

The second 4 could represent 4 wheel drive.

The 2 could represent 2 door coupe.

And Voila, I got myself my dream car...but fit for the 21st Century!

Of course I havent researched if both wheelbases fit for this marriage...but you get the idea...

If I cant do it with a 1970 A-Body...perhaps a Mopar 1970s E-Body...a Challenger or a 'Cuda perhaps...something...a mid-sized muscle car from the 1960s or early 1970s...I WILL find one that will fit the Model S frame wheelbase!

Edited February 18, 2016 by oldshurst442

ccap41 · February 19, 2016

Gasoline fumes, eh? How about the smell of a car running w/o catalytic converters or the smell of a race car burning that high octane stuff..also without cats?? Now that smell gets me all hot and bothered!

oldshurst442 · February 19, 2016

Hey Booyah, you dick! You are not funny.

I wasnt trying to be funny, BLU...

Thanx for the downvote as well...

Its fun to have someone down vote your dreams...

You know Blu...

That is the great thing about America...and Canada...one could do as he wishes with his money and his dreams and aspirations...

Great video...I like the dialogue the best on this vid.

oldshurst442 · February 19, 2016

Gasoline fumes, eh? How about the smell of a car running w/o catalytic converters or the smell of a race car burning that high octane stuff..also without cats?? Now that smell gets me all hot and bothered!

Me too...me too.

But electric power also gets me hot and bothered...

Im conflicted...

However, Im not fighting the pain in my brain...Ive learned to love both at the same time...

As you know CCAP, Im a muscle car guy through and through...and at the basic level...what does that mean actually?

Gobs and gobs of torque at low RPMs.

Well, electric power has all of its torque...and its a shyte load...INSTANTANEOUS at ANY RPM...

Its hard for a muscle car guy NOT to love electric sport sedans...for the FEEL of you being pushed to the back of your seat when your foot presses the accelator pedal...

Yeah.."feel"...we've seen that word before....

My partner's Model S...Oh, what a feeling! TESLA!

(yeah..I stole that line from a certain Japanese automobile manufacturer)

ccap41 · February 19, 2016

Gasoline fumes, eh? How about the smell of a car running w/o catalytic converters or the smell of a race car burning that high octane stuff..also without cats?? Now that smell gets me all hot and bothered!

Me too...me too.

But electric power also gets me hot and bothered...

Im conflicted...

However, Im not fighting the pain in my brain...Ive learned to love both at the same time...

As you know CCAP, Im a muscle car guy through and through...and at the basic level...what does that mean actually?

Gobs and gobs of torque at low RPMs.

Well, electric power has all of its torque...and its a shyte load...INSTANTANEOUS at ANY RPM...

Its hard for a muscle car guy NOT to love electric sport sedans...for the FEEL of you being pushed to the back of your seat when your foot presses the accelator pedal...

Yeah.."feel"...we've seen that word before....

My partner's Model S...Oh, what a feeling! TESLA!

(yeah..I stole that line from a certain Japanese automobile manufacturer)

Do electric cars still have a tachometer? All this low end and instantaneous talk got me thinking..

Funny enough, I loved my 4.6 in my mustang, I can't get enough of the GT350 yeeeettttt my driving style suits electric and the monster push rod engines when it comes to performance cars and small displacement turbos like my current 2.0 where they make a lot of low end tq but don't scream on the top end. I'm not the kind to hoon around on a regular basis so low end tq is where it's at for me.

I NEED to get a ride in a Model S. I can't imagine what that ride is like. Such a freakin quick car and it's big and...quiet!

oldshurst442 · February 19, 2016

Yes...a Model S has a tach...its digital on the LED screen.

This is where Im conflicted with the GT350...it really is a screamer of a sports car. Jay Leno says its more of a European sports car rather than a muscle car. Meaning, it does not move fast at low RPMs. But when the high revs happen, at higher speeds, the car comes alive.

You MUST drive a Model S...its...different.

No noise yet you accelerate like a rocket ship leaving the earth's atmosphere, with no transmission shift shocks...continual acceleration...and no noise...subtle electric motor whines, but real subtle...

And then suddenly.. a few seconds worth, you must really put an end to it, because by this time, you are waaaaay over the legal speed limit, yet that acceleration, you want more...

Its like a roller coaster ride...the adrenaline you get from that roller coaster ride....those G forces...well, its kinda replicated with the Model S' acceleration...

Edited February 19, 2016 by oldshurst442

G. David Felt · February 19, 2016

Shows great Torque and I love the reduced noise level and lack of fumes. Yes traditional drag racing is still cool, but I love what EV will bring to the party.

Instantaneous torque...

What is there NOT to love?

Although I like those V8 gasoline fumes...I miss it...

From time to time, an old school muscle car will drive right in front of me and I take a deeeep breath just to smell those fumes...

But...a BIG but, I cant wait for the day when the internal combustion engine is laid out to pasture.

It may not be in my lifetime...but Im certainly ready to embrace the next generation of the horseless carriage...

Im so ready, that if I ever build myself a muscle car in my retirement...a 1970 Oldsmobile 442, I might just swap the A-Body frame for an electric Tesla platform frame...or hopefully a GM engineered 100% battery platform and slide the 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass body on top of it...

Something like this...

We visit Tesla (in this case) for their Tesla Model S frame with the battery packs...

And instead of mating the Model S body unto it...

We order a Dynacorn A-Body Shell from Year One

And through miracle blacksmith fabrication _{(it CAN be done...the Hot Rod movement is a testament to what I wanna do...hey...if I could dream a little dream and maybe make it come true, maybe Id be making Hot Rod history in the meantime too...)}I fit the 1970 A-Body on it...then we proceed to make it look like a 442... with all the Tesla software AND hardware...just the skin on the outside will be Oldsmobile 442...

The first 4 could represent Tesla, Oldsmobile, GM and Dynacorn/Year One

The second 4 could represent 4 wheel drive.

The 2 could represent 2 door coupe.

And Voila, I got myself my dream car...but fit for the 21st Century!

Of course I havent researched if both wheelbases fit for this marriage...but you get the idea...

If I cant do it with a 1970 A-Body...perhaps a Mopar 1970s E-Body...a Challenger or a 'Cuda perhaps...something...a mid-sized muscle car from the 1960s or early 1970s...I WILL find one that will fit the Model S frame wheelbase!

+1, that is what I expect to see over the on coming years is people taking cool 1960's to 1990's auto body's and putting EV powertrains under them.

G. David Felt · February 19, 2016

Gasoline fumes, eh? How about the smell of a car running w/o catalytic converters or the smell of a race car burning that high octane stuff..also without cats?? Now that smell gets me all hot and bothered!

Me too...me too.

But electric power also gets me hot and bothered...

Im conflicted...

However, Im not fighting the pain in my brain...Ive learned to love both at the same time...

As you know CCAP, Im a muscle car guy through and through...and at the basic level...what does that mean actually?

Gobs and gobs of torque at low RPMs.

Well, electric power has all of its torque...and its a shyte load...INSTANTANEOUS at ANY RPM...

Its hard for a muscle car guy NOT to love electric sport sedans...for the FEEL of you being pushed to the back of your seat when your foot presses the accelator pedal...

Yeah.."feel"...we've seen that word before....

My partner's Model S...Oh, what a feeling! TESLA!

(yeah..I stole that line from a certain Japanese automobile manufacturer)

Love Torque too!

Just think of having your partner, spouse on your lap when you hit the accelerator! Deep fast fun!

Yes my mind is in the gutter today!

Robert Hall · February 19, 2016

Now lets see them do 500 miles at Daytona? That is in 3 hours. Then I will be impressed.

Hell even a Volt could be tuned to do much faster times if you wanted it to. These are electric motors nothing new.

I spun the tires on the GM power cell car down the street once too. [Yes I was permitted when I asked to do it}

This is just Torque.

Nonsense...500 miles at Daytona are custom built race cars. These are stock street cars.

Robert Hall · February 19, 2016

Devoid of everything that made me grow up loving motor vehicles. The complete antithesis of what makes motoring great. Soulless, remote controlled and disconnected. Ugly on top of everything, parallels, Elon Musk and his insanity, along with his cars, which have a blank face, emotionless. The anti-car. Nothing good will come of this. Mark my words, if not today, but in due time.

I know it's still 1699 in Amish land, but get over the past...this is the future...

oldshurst442 · February 19, 2016

Now lets see them do 500 miles at Daytona? That is in 3 hours. Then I will be impressed.

Hell even a Volt could be tuned to do much faster times if you wanted it to. These are electric motors nothing new.

I spun the tires on the GM power cell car down the street once too. [Yes I was permitted when I asked to do it}

This is just Torque.

Nonsense...500 miles at Daytona are custom built race cars. These are stock street cars.

And...the tech will eventually get there...

ICE has got over 100 years of development under its belt...

ocnblu · February 19, 2016

Devoid of everything that made me grow up loving motor vehicles. The complete antithesis of what makes motoring great. Soulless, remote controlled and disconnected. Ugly on top of everything, parallels, Elon Musk and his insanity, along with his cars, which have a blank face, emotionless. The anti-car. Nothing good will come of this. Mark my words, if not today, but in due time.

I know it's still 1699 in Amish land, but get over the past...this is the future...

Is it really now, Moltar?

ocnblu · February 19, 2016

That is a 1911 Baker Electric, because, you know, electricity is the latest and greatest way to get around. The people spoke then, and they are still speaking today. Fossils, baby.

Robert Hall · February 19, 2016

Devoid of everything that made me grow up loving motor vehicles. The complete antithesis of what makes motoring great. Soulless, remote controlled and disconnected. Ugly on top of everything, parallels, Elon Musk and his insanity, along with his cars, which have a blank face, emotionless. The anti-car. Nothing good will come of this. Mark my words, if not today, but in due time.

I know it's still 1699 in Amish land, but get over the past...this is the future...

Is it really now, Moltar? 1911BakerElectric.jpg

The electric cars of today are far beyond the primitives of the ancient past...

That is a 1911 Baker Electric, because, you know, electricity is the latest and greatest way to get around. The people spoke then, and they are still speaking today. Fossils, baby.

Going electric is good way to say FU to the oil companies, the Texas sleaze and the OPEC filth...

ocnblu · February 19, 2016

Devoid of everything that made me grow up loving motor vehicles. The complete antithesis of what makes motoring great. Soulless, remote controlled and disconnected. Ugly on top of everything, parallels, Elon Musk and his insanity, along with his cars, which have a blank face, emotionless. The anti-car. Nothing good will come of this. Mark my words, if not today, but in due time.

I know it's still 1699 in Amish land, but get over the past...this is the future...

Is it really now, Moltar? 1911BakerElectric.jpg

The electric cars of today are far beyond the primitives of the ancient past...

They're still stunted compared to ICE vehicles, just as they were then. They are mere midgets.

hyperv6 · February 19, 2016

Now lets see them do 500 miles at Daytona? That is in 3 hours. Then I will be impressed.

Hell even a Volt could be tuned to do much faster times if you wanted it to. These are electric motors nothing new.

I spun the tires on the GM power cell car down the street once too. [Yes I was permitted when I asked to do it}

This is just Torque.

Nonsense...500 miles at Daytona are custom built race cars. These are stock street cars.

Oh my God you are turning into one of those Musk Zealots. LOL!

They do race GT cars that are nearly stock there at the 24 hours.

The fact is EV are making progress and do some things very well but they still have other things they need to work on and it will take time and more investment.

Just the way it is.

I would not say good bye to ICE yet and I would not dismiss EV all together. This is going to be a market of many options so enjoy them all.

It is sad in the single seat racers they have to change cars half way to run a full race. When they get to the point they can run a full race with one car then we will call that progress.

I just loved how that one magazine took a Model T and a Tesla and the T just about beat the Tesla to NYC even on back roads. That is a sign of more work to do.

I have nothing against EV cars aspect for some of the wack jobs that like to declare them perfect. That discredits them and hurts the EV movement more than helps. That is like me claiming my Fiero is as good as a Ferrari. The truth is it is best to be honest and not try to make things into what they are not at least to this point.

Robert Hall · February 19, 2016

EVs are definitely far from perfect....the ranges are too limited, the charge times too long. But for some use cases, I can see they would work great. The near future (next 25 years or so, don't care about time past that) I see a mix of ICE, hybrid and EVs.. I'm a fan of Tesla and as a techie, I do like to see American startup tech companies succeed...they are a great Silicon Valley success story..

oldshurst442 · February 19, 2016

EVs are definitely far from perfect....the ranges are too limited, the charge times too long. But for some use cases, I can see they would work great. The near future (next 25 years or so, don't care about time past that) I see a mix of ICE, hybrid and EVs.. I'm a fan of Tesla and as a techie, I do like to see American startup tech companies succeed...they are a great Silicon Valley success story..

Tesla really makes a GREAT product. My partner's car is 3 months old...it still new, but no quality issues to report...

We are currently asking the several other businesses in our little area to maybe designate a small parking area for recharging stations...we will see how that goes. And despite he not having a charge station yet at our restaurant, he has plenty of juice to go back and forth from work to home...

Intrepidation · February 19, 2016

The feckless, whimpering tears of Tesla haters is the most beautiful automotive soundtrack of all.

Elon Musk bathes in the tears of his haters.

Suaviloquent · February 19, 2016

So, does that character's head shape mean he has microcephaly? You know, the Zika virus?

Or is it because he gets a h4rd-0n by....er... okay R-rated section.

oldshurst442 · February 19, 2016

Now lets see them do 500 miles at Daytona? That is in 3 hours. Then I will be impressed.

Hell even a Volt could be tuned to do much faster times if you wanted it to. These are electric motors nothing new.

I spun the tires on the GM power cell car down the street once too. [Yes I was permitted when I asked to do it}

This is just Torque.

Nonsense...500 miles at Daytona are custom built race cars. These are stock street cars.

Oh my God you are turning into one of those Musk Zealots. LOL!

They do race GT cars that are nearly stock there at the 24 hours.

The fact is EV are making progress and do some things very well but they still have other things they need to work on and it will take time and more investment.

Just the way it is.

I would not say good bye to ICE yet and I would not dismiss EV all together. This is going to be a market of many options so enjoy them all.

It is sad in the single seat racers they have to change cars half way to run a full race. When they get to the point they can run a full race with one car then we will call that progress.

I just loved how that one magazine took a Model T and a Tesla and the T just about beat the Tesla to NYC even on back roads. That is a sign of more work to do.

I have nothing against EV cars aspect for some of the wack jobs that like to declare them perfect. That discredits them and hurts the EV movement more than helps. That is like me claiming my Fiero is as good as a Ferrari. The truth is it is best to be honest and not try to make things into what they are not at least to this point.

I have nothing against EV cars aspect for some of the wack jobs that like to declare them perfect. That discredits them and hurts the EV movement more than helps.

I see your point on this...but in reality....its not as different as anti-EV or anti-Musk zealots claiming that EVs are worthless. THAT also does not help...

Its just blurry images and static noise for both sides of the fence. With that being said...because that is not what I wanted to talk about...

I slept on the next thing you said...I let it sit and ferment in my brain and Ive come to an intelligent rebuttal.

When I first read this part:

one magazine took a Model T and a Tesla and the T just about beat the Tesla to NYC even on back roads.

it did not sit well with me...I did not know why at the time I read it... (The "more work to do" part I agreed with 100%)

But by pondering at that thought for a awhile, I now know why I dont like that contest.

The Ford Model T.

It put America on wheels. Not because of mass production, this discussion does not revolve around that.

The Model T put America on wheels on how it was engineered to move the people around this vast continent.

Back then, America...and Canada, was not paved....and the Model T actually was engineered to go where no other car...or horse...COULD go.

This video might help for what it is Im talking about.

Also...the Model T...is a very versatile vehicle...

The Tesla Model S...is not a pioneer of any sorts as to lead anybody on any expedition successfully to tackle the unknown world and to lead an entire nation into an economical super power. Its a little disingenuous to put those two together.

The Tesla Model S is just an engineering exercise that pushes electric vehicles further...and like you said, a lot of work still needs to be done.

The Ford Model T...was just PERFECT right out of the box for that time. It was the PERFECT PACKAGE for America's needs for that time. It was the PERFECT SOLUTION for America's needs for that time. It was simple. Other than the way the driving part of it was concerned. Hence its 20 year production run and its success WORLD WIDE almost IMMEDIATELY.

Also...another little tid bit that Im not satisfied with...

The Model T had excellent gas mileage. Put that aside though. There were no gas stations at every nook and cranny in America...just like there is no electric charge stations for the Model S...so...I havent read about how the Ford Model T was gassing up and how the Tesla was charging up...but for it to be fair, the Ford Model T should have been dummied down to 1920 levels of gas stations, not 2016 levels, so if the Model T ended not having gasoline in its tank and its in the middle of nowhere, at least let the Model T driver experience the real world of 1920s range anxiety like how the Tesla Model S driver faced...and then the Model T driver would have to calculate where the other gas station would be to make his next stop...maybe even drive a tad slower to conserve gasoline...or whatever...

And one last thing...

I view the Model S...especially how people drive it on the drag strip...once with a Hellcat and this time around...a Model S versus a Model X...

I view the Model S as Bonneville racers...

Rather than a Model T...why?

Because Mercedes' first car, Oldsmobile's first car, the Model T...the horseless carriage...had already put the world on wheels eliminating the horse, the Bonneville Salt flat racers and the first hot rods, just perfected the horseless carriage to go faster...

And maybe THAT is what the problem is with the Tesla Model S amongst some anti-EV people...is because they dont view the Model S as a trailblazer like the Ford Model T was or the Volkswagen Beetle, or the Renault 2CV.

Edited February 19, 2016 by oldshurst442

G. David Felt · February 19, 2016

^^^ Outstanding analogy.

smk4565 · February 19, 2016

Now lets see them do 500 miles at Daytona? That is in 3 hours. Then I will be impressed.Hell even a Volt could be tuned to do much faster times if you wanted it to. These are electric motors nothing new.I spun the tires on the GM power cell car down the street once too. [Yes I was permitted when I asked to do it}This is just Torque.

Let's see a NASCAR do 500 miles without stopping for a refuel. An electric race car could be made to beat a NASCAR if they had a battery pack swap feature. Edited February 19, 2016 by smk4565

hyperv6 · February 19, 2016

Now lets see them do 500 miles at Daytona? That is in 3 hours. Then I will be impressed.Hell even a Volt could be tuned to do much faster times if you wanted it to. These are electric motors nothing new.I spun the tires on the GM power cell car down the street once too. [Yes I was permitted when I asked to do it}This is just Torque.
Let's see a NASCAR do 500 miles without stopping for a refuel. An electric race car could be made to beat a NASCAR if they had a battery pack swap feature.

It can be easily done if they wanted. NASCAR as it is now cut the fuel cells size down to make sure they have to stop more often. They also regulate that the tires need to go so many miles. Goodyear could make a race tire for Daytona that would last 500 miles with no issue. It is has already happened that they have had teams go the entire race with no left changed or only one change just to make sure the tires are fresh.

Pit stops were made a part of the competition and to mix up the field so they are regulated to happen when they do.

Now lets see someone change 4 tires and a battery in 12 seconds.

They do have that new formula electric open wheel series but they change the cars at half way not the battery. Each team has to enter two cars to finish the race with one driver. If they were to race for miles they would use larger tanks and lean out the engines more. It is all in how you tune and what you are racing for. As of now they go as fast as they can and make the stops. target it for no stops or one stop they could do it too. Goals and rules make it what it is.

ccap41 · February 19, 2016

Now lets see them do 500 miles at Daytona? That is in 3 hours. Then I will be impressed.Hell even a Volt could be tuned to do much faster times if you wanted it to. These are electric motors nothing new.I spun the tires on the GM power cell car down the street once too. [Yes I was permitted when I asked to do it}This is just Torque.
Let's see a NASCAR do 500 miles without stopping for a refuel. An electric race car could be made to beat a NASCAR if they had a battery pack swap feature.

Very good point. They will probably stop between 8-10 times Sunday for fuel and/or tires.

ccap41 · February 19, 2016

Now lets see them do 500 miles at Daytona? That is in 3 hours. Then I will be impressed.Hell even a Volt could be tuned to do much faster times if you wanted it to. These are electric motors nothing new.I spun the tires on the GM power cell car down the street once too. [Yes I was permitted when I asked to do it}This is just Torque.
Let's see a NASCAR do 500 miles without stopping for a refuel. An electric race car could be made to beat a NASCAR if they had a battery pack swap feature.

It can be easily done if they wanted. NASCAR as it is now cut the fuel cells size down to make sure they have to stop more often. They also regulate that the tires need to go so many miles. Goodyear could make a race tire for Daytona that would last 500 miles with no issue. It is has already happened that they have had teams go the entire race with no left changed or only one change just to make sure the tires are fresh.

Pit stops were made a part of the competition and to mix up the field so they are regulated to happen when they do.

Now lets see someone change 4 tires and a battery in 12 seconds.

They do have that new formula electric open wheel series but they change the cars at half way not the battery. Each team has to enter two cars to finish the race with one driver. If they were to race for miles they would use larger tanks and lean out the engines more. It is all in how you tune and what you are racing for. As of now they go as fast as they can and make the stops. target it for no stops or one stop they could do it too. Goals and rules make it what it is.

True but at the same time at ~5mpg they would need a 100 gallon tank and that's not realistic. They're 22 gallon tanks. I remember a few years ago they experimented with 12 gallon tanks to break up the field a lot more often in hopes o avoiding "the big one". I don't think it worked and they went back to the 22 gallon tank.

They've had races in the Sprint Cup that a team has gone an entire race without changing their lefts??? How long ago was that?

Have you ever watched the Formula E races? Pretty neat stuff going on. Completely different racing but entertaining nonetheless.

oldshurst442 · February 19, 2016

^^^ Outstanding analogy.

Thanx...but Im afraid...I think and assuming here, which is dangerous territory, other than yourself, and maybe a couple of others, that my post above, will fall on deaf ears....

hyperv6 · February 19, 2016

Now lets see them do 500 miles at Daytona? That is in 3 hours. Then I will be impressed.Hell even a Volt could be tuned to do much faster times if you wanted it to. These are electric motors nothing new.I spun the tires on the GM power cell car down the street once too. [Yes I was permitted when I asked to do it}This is just Torque.
Let's see a NASCAR do 500 miles without stopping for a refuel. An electric race car could be made to beat a NASCAR if they had a battery pack swap feature.

It can be easily done if they wanted. NASCAR as it is now cut the fuel cells size down to make sure they have to stop more often. They also regulate that the tires need to go so many miles. Goodyear could make a race tire for Daytona that would last 500 miles with no issue. It is has already happened that they have had teams go the entire race with no left changed or only one change just to make sure the tires are fresh.

Pit stops were made a part of the competition and to mix up the field so they are regulated to happen when they do.

Now lets see someone change 4 tires and a battery in 12 seconds.

They do have that new formula electric open wheel series but they change the cars at half way not the battery. Each team has to enter two cars to finish the race with one driver. If they were to race for miles they would use larger tanks and lean out the engines more. It is all in how you tune and what you are racing for. As of now they go as fast as they can and make the stops. target it for no stops or one stop they could do it too. Goals and rules make it what it is.

True but at the same time at ~5mpg they would need a 100 gallon tank and that's not realistic. They're 22 gallon tanks. I remember a few years ago they experimented with 12 gallon tanks to break up the field a lot more often in hopes o avoiding "the big one". I don't think it worked and they went back to the 22 gallon tank.

They've had races in the Sprint Cup that a team has gone an entire race without changing their lefts??? How long ago was that?

Have you ever watched the Formula E races? Pretty neat stuff going on. Completely different racing but entertaining nonetheless.

What you are missing is that NASCAR is constructed with rules to make them what they are and do what they do. the Carbs they ran at a track like Daytona were very small CFM and the restrictor plates even smaller.

If Nascar wanted to go for MPG they would change the fuel settings on the new FI and tune the engines to still make good power with less fuel. Their intent is to use gas not save it. If they mandated the other 500 miles is very easy to do and they still would be going pretty fast.

As for tires they are formulated for each track to last about the length of a full load of fuel. Goodyear works hard to hit these numbers and most the time they hit it. Once in a while they miss it.

In recent years here Goodyear goes conservative on compounds they may change lefts only once and even then they are far from worn out.

Last nigh they ran 150 miles and most teams did not change a single tire and those that did really did not hold much advantage.

If NASCAR said Ok at the July race we want a tire to last all 500 miles Goodyear would have one there.

Even some Indy 500 races have gone in the past with no change on the left front at times.

The rules regulate fuel usage and tire wear not the technology.

Hell just look at a new Corvette and the kind of miles it could get going around Daytona with Z06 power and technology. A little larger cell and with a little leaned out tuning for running at a specific RPM it may do the 500 miles with no issue. But the rules will not let that happen unless they say to do it.

I have seen the Formula E and it is interesting. Different but interesting.

Rules in most racing shape the ability of the car. Take todays technology and you could just about do anything you like anymore if you set the rules to use it.

The only things that can not be overcome are the rules of Physics. This is why FWD cars are still not seen much in racing accept in their own classes or series. Traction is just tough to come buy in a performance application with weight transfer and side loads. Asking front tires to turn, stop and go with unfavorable load transfers make it even harder to put it down to the track.

hyperv6 · February 19, 2016

Now lets see them do 500 miles at Daytona? That is in 3 hours. Then I will be impressed.

Hell even a Volt could be tuned to do much faster times if you wanted it to. These are electric motors nothing new.

I spun the tires on the GM power cell car down the street once too. [Yes I was permitted when I asked to do it}

This is just Torque.

Nonsense...500 miles at Daytona are custom built race cars. These are stock street cars.

Oh my God you are turning into one of those Musk Zealots. LOL!

They do race GT cars that are nearly stock there at the 24 hours.

The fact is EV are making progress and do some things very well but they still have other things they need to work on and it will take time and more investment.

Just the way it is.

I would not say good bye to ICE yet and I would not dismiss EV all together. This is going to be a market of many options so enjoy them all.

It is sad in the single seat racers they have to change cars half way to run a full race. When they get to the point they can run a full race with one car then we will call that progress.

I just loved how that one magazine took a Model T and a Tesla and the T just about beat the Tesla to NYC even on back roads. That is a sign of more work to do.

I have nothing against EV cars aspect for some of the wack jobs that like to declare them perfect. That discredits them and hurts the EV movement more than helps. That is like me claiming my Fiero is as good as a Ferrari. The truth is it is best to be honest and not try to make things into what they are not at least to this point.

I have nothing against EV cars aspect for some of the wack jobs that like to declare them perfect. That discredits them and hurts the EV movement more than helps.

I see your point on this...but in reality....its not as different as anti-EV or anti-Musk zealots claiming that EVs are worthless. THAT also does not help...

Its just blurry images and static noise for both sides of the fence. With that being said...because that is not what I wanted to talk about...

I slept on the next thing you said...I let it sit and ferment in my brain and Ive come to an intelligent rebuttal.

When I first read this part:

one magazine took a Model T and a Tesla and the T just about beat the Tesla to NYC even on back roads.

it did not sit well with me...I did not know why at the time I read it... (The "more work to do" part I agreed with 100%)

But by pondering at that thought for a awhile, I now know why I dont like that contest.

The Ford Model T.

It put America on wheels. Not because of mass production, this discussion does not revolve around that.

The Model T put America on wheels on how it was engineered to move the people around this vast continent.

Back then, America...and Canada, was not paved....and the Model T actually was engineered to go where no other car...or horse...COULD go.

This video might help for what it is Im talking about.

Also...the Model T...is a very versatile vehicle...

The Tesla Model S...is not a pioneer of any sorts as to lead anybody on any expedition successfully to tackle the unknown world and to lead an entire nation into an economical super power. Its a little disingenuous to put those two together.

The Tesla Model S is just an engineering exercise that pushes electric vehicles further...and like you said, a lot of work still needs to be done.

The Ford Model T...was just PERFECT right out of the box for that time. It was the PERFECT PACKAGE for America's needs for that time. It was the PERFECT SOLUTION for America's needs for that time. It was simple. Other than the way the driving part of it was concerned. Hence its 20 year production run and its success WORLD WIDE almost IMMEDIATELY.

Also...another little tid bit that Im not satisfied with...

The Model T had excellent gas mileage. Put that aside though. There were no gas stations at every nook and cranny in America...just like there is no electric charge stations for the Model S...so...I havent read about how the Ford Model T was gassing up and how the Tesla was charging up...but for it to be fair, the Ford Model T should have been dummied down to 1920 levels of gas stations, not 2016 levels, so if the Model T ended not having gasoline in its tank and its in the middle of nowhere, at least let the Model T driver experience the real world of 1920s range anxiety like how the Tesla Model S driver faced...and then the Model T driver would have to calculate where the other gas station would be to make his next stop...maybe even drive a tad slower to conserve gasoline...or whatever...

And one last thing...

I view the Model S...especially how people drive it on the drag strip...once with a Hellcat and this time around...a Model S versus a Model X...

I view the Model S as Bonneville racers...

Rather than a Model T...why?

Because Mercedes' first car, Oldsmobile's first car, the Model T...the horseless carriage...had already put the world on wheels eliminating the horse, the Bonneville Salt flat racers and the first hot rods, just perfected the horseless carriage to go faster...

And maybe THAT is what the problem is with the Tesla Model S amongst some anti-EV people...is because they dont view the Model S as a trailblazer like the Ford Model T was or the Volkswagen Beetle, or the Renault 2CV.

Well I normally have you blocked as it saves me time on wasted reading but I will answer this a bit because I did not want to waste anymore time reading this.

First of there are over the top people on both sides and they do more damage than good. Most people are realistic and understand there is work to be done and it will get there but Musk is not curing cancer here either.

While I am not a Musk fan I am not totally Anti EV. I would like to see them all progress and become a viable option. As for the hype of Tesla Sorry they all they did was prove an expensive EV luxury car had a small segment. when few companies believed it. Now that it is proven the others will harvest this market and may squeeze Musk out in the end. It takes deeper pockets than what he has to make cars today with the big boys.

As for the model T story you were way over thinking this.

Read the story and learn. It is just to show a car nearly 100 years old could cover the similar long distance in about the same time as the Tesla. Both cars were out of their element of just beating around town cars. All it proves is an interesting read and that the Tesla and EV still have work to be done yet to become a car that does not have to change your life style to live with in all applications.

While most cars today are like a Swiss Army knife where they can do many jobs well some like the Tesla do some selected ones well. To improve technology will have to advance a little more.

Is the glass half full or half empty? It is a matter of how you look at it.

If I don't answer it may be because I am not bored.

The whole EV segment is a slow growth segment that will continue to grow and improve. It may be years before it gets to where it needs to be or it could be in a couple years depending on how technology advances.

You can not rush this as it will happen when it happens. The reason we made no progress in the past is because there were no products. Today GM, Tesla and others have products that proves the Chicken came before the spending egg arrived. Now that there is product MFG will invest. This is why GM and others are not worried about profits now as they will come in time. It is just part of investment. On the other hand Tesla needs profits soon or they will have issues. They have no other product to fall back on to provide income. Their clock is ticking.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature

surreal1272 · February 19, 2016

Devoid of everything that made me grow up loving motor vehicles. The complete antithesis of what makes motoring great. Soulless, remote controlled and disconnected. Ugly on top of everything, parallels, Elon Musk and his insanity, along with his cars, which have a blank face, emotionless. The anti-car. Nothing good will come of this. Mark my words, if not today, but in due time.

I know it's still 1699 in Amish land, but get over the past...this is the future...

Is it really now, Moltar? 1911BakerElectric.jpg

The electric cars of today are far beyond the primitives of the ancient past...

That is a 1911 Baker Electric, because, you know, electricity is the latest and greatest way to get around. The people spoke then, and they are still speaking today. Fossils, baby.

Going electric is good way to say FU to the oil companies, the Texas sleaze and the OPEC filth...

^^THIS!! Screw fossil fuels and the people who use it to hold citizens hostage and prevent real growth in energy.

surreal1272 · February 19, 2016

Devoid of everything that made me grow up loving motor vehicles. The complete antithesis of what makes motoring great. Soulless, remote controlled and disconnected. Ugly on top of everything, parallels, Elon Musk and his insanity, along with his cars, which have a blank face, emotionless. The anti-car. Nothing good will come of this. Mark my words, if not today, but in due time.

I know it's still 1699 in Amish land, but get over the past...this is the future...

Is it really now, Moltar? 1911BakerElectric.jpg

The electric cars of today are far beyond the primitives of the ancient past...

They're still stunted compared to ICE vehicles, just as they were then. They are mere midgets.

That is not even close to the truth. EVs are far more advanced and have far more range than 100 years ago. It's not even comparable except to people who have a hard on for seeing nothing else succeed.

Edited February 19, 2016 by surreal1272

William Maley · February 19, 2016

What I'm fearing this thread might turn into...

ccap41 · February 19, 2016

Now lets see them do 500 miles at Daytona? That is in 3 hours. Then I will be impressed.Hell even a Volt could be tuned to do much faster times if you wanted it to. These are electric motors nothing new.I spun the tires on the GM power cell car down the street once too. [Yes I was permitted when I asked to do it}This is just Torque.
Let's see a NASCAR do 500 miles without stopping for a refuel. An electric race car could be made to beat a NASCAR if they had a battery pack swap feature.

It can be easily done if they wanted. NASCAR as it is now cut the fuel cells size down to make sure they have to stop more often. They also regulate that the tires need to go so many miles. Goodyear could make a race tire for Daytona that would last 500 miles with no issue. It is has already happened that they have had teams go the entire race with no left changed or only one change just to make sure the tires are fresh.

Pit stops were made a part of the competition and to mix up the field so they are regulated to happen when they do.

Now lets see someone change 4 tires and a battery in 12 seconds.

They do have that new formula electric open wheel series but they change the cars at half way not the battery. Each team has to enter two cars to finish the race with one driver. If they were to race for miles they would use larger tanks and lean out the engines more. It is all in how you tune and what you are racing for. As of now they go as fast as they can and make the stops. target it for no stops or one stop they could do it too. Goals and rules make it what it is.

True but at the same time at ~5mpg they would need a 100 gallon tank and that's not realistic. They're 22 gallon tanks. I remember a few years ago they experimented with 12 gallon tanks to break up the field a lot more often in hopes o avoiding "the big one". I don't think it worked and they went back to the 22 gallon tank.

They've had races in the Sprint Cup that a team has gone an entire race without changing their lefts??? How long ago was that?

Have you ever watched the Formula E races? Pretty neat stuff going on. Completely different racing but entertaining nonetheless.

What you are missing is that NASCAR is constructed with rules to make them what they are and do what they do. the Carbs they ran at a track like Daytona were very small CFM and the restrictor plates even smaller.

If Nascar wanted to go for MPG they would change the fuel settings on the new FI and tune the engines to still make good power with less fuel. Their intent is to use gas not save it. If they mandated the other 500 miles is very easy to do and they still would be going pretty fast.

As for tires they are formulated for each track to last about the length of a full load of fuel. Goodyear works hard to hit these numbers and most the time they hit it. Once in a while they miss it.

In recent years here Goodyear goes conservative on compounds they may change lefts only once and even then they are far from worn out.

Last nigh they ran 150 miles and most teams did not change a single tire and those that did really did not hold much advantage.

If NASCAR said Ok at the July race we want a tire to last all 500 miles Goodyear would have one there.

Even some Indy 500 races have gone in the past with no change on the left front at times.

The rules regulate fuel usage and tire wear not the technology.

Hell just look at a new Corvette and the kind of miles it could get going around Daytona with Z06 power and technology. A little larger cell and with a little leaned out tuning for running at a specific RPM it may do the 500 miles with no issue. But the rules will not let that happen unless they say to do it.

I have seen the Formula E and it is interesting. Different but interesting.

Rules in most racing shape the ability of the car. Take todays technology and you could just about do anything you like anymore if you set the rules to use it.

The only things that can not be overcome are the rules of Physics. This is why FWD cars are still not seen much in racing accept in their own classes or series. Traction is just tough to come buy in a performance application with weight transfer and side loads. Asking front tires to turn, stop and go with unfavorable load transfers make it even harder to put it down to the track.

What I'm missing? I'm not missing anything.. I understand the sport completely. The intent is to find the best combination to win the race be it fuel savings or power. The intent is not "to use gas and not save it". If you think that is the case then you have not been following the sport very closely as most every race comes down to fuel mileage one way or another.

Yes, each tire is different for each track. I wouldn't necessarily say that they are designed to last one fuel run based on watching the races. Close, absolutely. But some tracks are waaaay worse on tires than others. Tracks such as Darlington, eats tires up and lap times will slip 3-4 seconds A LAP after only 15 or so laps on a set. Then there is Daytona were the fall off isn't drastic at all.

What race was it that somebody/anybody did not change the left sides(NASCAR and Indy500)?

lol.. no $h! a factory car could do 500 miles on a race track. A Z06 wouldn't win or even be on the same lap as a Sprint Cup car though. Just because it's got the power doesn't mean anything. It can't even do 200mph in a straight line let alone around a track. Also, you think a Z06 going full tilt will get any better than 5mpg? At 18.5 gallons of fuel on board a Z06 It'll be stopping more than a Sprint Cup car while running slower laps. My car can do 500 miles with only one fill up and NO stop for tires, does that mean it can race in the Daytona 500? I'm not sure what you're getting at with that statement about the Z06.

I thought the initial point of somebody saying Daytona 500 was a slap in the mileage/fill up department.

Drew Dowdell · February 19, 2016

I've come out of my very relaxing vacation to clean up this thread of the personal attacks and off-topic taunting. If I have to come in off the beach to clean it up again, it will be closed and people will be getting more warning points.

oldshurst442 · February 19, 2016

OK...so...lets get back to the Tesla Model S.

Thanx Hyper for that link.

Even though you wont see me thanking you because you block me...yet you saw my response to you the first time...

A lot of my questions about the validity of such a race were answered...

And really, that is what I wanted to find out...is how logical this contest was conducted...

It was creative, and after reading it, I find it MORE disingenuous to do this kind of thing...this time Im defending the Model T...

Like I said...the Model T inhabited the planet when cross country traveling was still a dream...

Hyper, you said that cars today are like swiss army knives...yes they are...in a different way the Model T was...

Its two different machines in completely two different worlds...

They are several worlds apart them to boot...

When the Model T was alive...the era of flight took off...

The Tesla Model S is in a world where people fly everywhere on the planet...which is just as a common thing as driving...actually, hardly nobody drives cross country anymore...people fly...yet...even the Model S was put to a test where chances are...even it will ever hardly do....

Let alone the Ford Model T...where flight was just seconds in the air...and still a pipe dream to reach one side of the country to the other...

About reliability issues...3 paragraphs into the article...and THAT issue was addressed...actually, even by 1970s standards...cars had a hard time going from one side to the other side of the continent without malfunction of any sorts...

That goes to show you how far the automobile has come SINCE the 1970s...and that timeline equates to 40 years of engineering and perfecting the automobile...

So...was that really a fair contest...in the Model T's point of view?

Too many "what ifs" and "how abouts" to really draw valuable conclusions in this exercise.

OK...about the Model S...

Like I said...The Model S is a different kind of pioneer and trailblazer. Originally, I said the Model S was not really a trailblazer like the Ford Model T...Id like to correct my statement and say its a DIFFERENT kind of trailblazer...

Yes Hyper....glass 1/2 full - glass 1/2 empty scenario...

Its just a matter of opinion where one wants to side with...

Anti-EV...pro-EV...

Anti-Henri Ford...(for cars in general)

Anti-Elon Musk...(for whatever reasons tickle your fancy)

Edited February 19, 2016 by oldshurst442

G. David Felt · February 19, 2016

So would it not make sense to take Nascar as well as all sports and say you have to hit X miles per hour speed, X Fuel consumption and you only get X amount of gallons of fuel for the whole race.

This would be how I would approach EV racing, you have to hit X efficiency in having your charges last X amount of time.

I think this Drag race is valid for Tesla, both auto's have their benefits and detractors and while the S should beat the X all the time, experience of the driver will affect how one goes down the track.

Over all the speed plus the time for a quarter mile in either the S or X Tesla is pretty amazing I think. This proves that EV auto's can hold their own and we are at the beginning of where this could take the sports.

The fact that you can get a 500HP / 1000lbs of Torque EV engine is amazing and if you put two in an EV like a Fisker, it would blow Tesla out of the water. In fact I bet you would have to have software to help with launch just due to having a 1000HP and 2000 lbs of torque in an auto. Like to see Bugatti or any of the over priced exotic speed cars do that.

We are in interesting times!

hyperv6 · February 20, 2016

Now lets see them do 500 miles at Daytona? That is in 3 hours. Then I will be impressed.Hell even a Volt could be tuned to do much faster times if you wanted it to. These are electric motors nothing new.I spun the tires on the GM power cell car down the street once too. [Yes I was permitted when I asked to do it}This is just Torque.

Let's see a NASCAR do 500 miles without stopping for a refuel. An electric race car could be made to beat a NASCAR if they had a battery pack swap feature.