1LE Designed To Beat GT350: Al Oppenheiser

[oldshurst442]

Not one piece of sheetmetal is shared between the two cars Olds. We get it though. You will never like the way it looks because of a stupid movie.

 

Hey...you said it yourself....STUPID MOVIE....and Chevrolet has got that blood all over their hands...by themselves...

 

A Stingray that really aint  the Stingray...and a 2016 Camaro that really aint the 2016 Camaro...

 

Zeta Bumblebee. Latest Edition

 

Actual 2016 Alpha Camaro.

Transformers Edition Camaro

 

...and I can guarantee when the time comes he will also gush over the Camaro, as well as mention the value for the price. Because The 1LE is just that good.

In the meantime...HE IS GUSHING OVER THE GT350R

 

so much for your hooray hooray GM Bravada!  OOOPS....that is a dead GM model on a dead GM brand...I meant to say for your hooray hooray GM Bravado!

Edited February 17, 2016 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

I hope you guys realize...that your arguments for the 1LE arent doing the Camaro 1LE any justice...

 

The over zealous fanfare is exactly that...over zealous.

[El Kabong]

You'll forgive me if I don't take your accusations of being over zealous too serious.

1LE, man. All the goodness of a Shelby. 20% less expense.

[oldshurst442]

You'll forgive me if I don't take your accusations of being over zealous too serious.

1LE, man. All the goodness of a Shelby. 20% less expense.

1LE man....get it in yellow and you are a fantasy movie star pleasuring yourself to the thoughts of a semi naked Megan Fox.

Edited February 17, 2016 by oldshurst442

[El Kabong]

Uh... Precisely?! (At least for the single folk amongst us)

Better that than overspending for an underachiever.

Edited February 17, 2016 by El Kabong

[oldshurst442]

Problem is...

The nicest bumblebee was the one GM called junk...

It even had some wicked battlefield scars.

And a nice  set of rad Cragars if Im not mistaken...

 

 

And Megan's best shots were with that Camaro...

 

Even THAT...GM screwed up in...they gave the hottest scenes of Megan to the 1970s Camaro instead of the mucho macho 2010 Camaro.

Edited February 17, 2016 by oldshurst442

[El Kabong]

Eh, whatever. All I know is that excellence of execution continues to roll. And it doesn't care about snake badges.

[oldshurst442]

Eh, whatever. All I know is that excellence of execution continues to roll. And it doesn't care about snake badges.

Im sure Ford does not care about Transformer badges either...

 

Between you and me though, I think a snake caricature on a car is more...um...muscle car worthy than a Hasbro Toy logo...

[El Kabong]

Maybe. But the Ford logo also suspiciously resembles a blue pill.

[oldshurst442]

Maybe. But the Ford logo also suspiciously resembles a blue pill.

What???

 

That is the best you got?

 

Looks like I win the battle of the wits...no contest.

 

Remember EL K...

[Suaviloquent]

All I'm saying is that sports cars are not just about the numbers, despite how we're led to believe. They're also about the experience.

 

We've had two generations of Corvettes busting Porsche 911s, yet I've never seen anyone ever say that Porsches are overpriced (the options are, but then again is a Veyron overpriced? Is all luxury then overpriced?), unless of course, they can't themselves can' afford them or really they don't understand the power of developing a strong brand, that excites people to pay for their indulgence.

 

If your purpose is to track a factory vehicle with some competence on a $45-50,000 budget, a Camaro is quite possibly the last vehicle you would get. Seriously. 

 

You would get a factory Miata and mod the crap out of it to stay in the budget.

 

By default no Mustang GT350 for anyone at that price. I wholeheartedly agree, Camaros lay the numbers. But it's not all about the numbers. People do buy things, they buy expectations. When they buy the Porsche, they buy it not because it has incredible stats in the hands of race drivers. 

 

If you can swing a Cadillac busting Camaro for over 20 grand less, then either the Camaro's woefully underpriced, and GM is driving its Alpha margins into the ground, or the Cadillac is overpriced. And now I suspect its both.

 

And for someone looking at GM to build a strong brand, they should be charging more.

 

If I'm the product planner at GM, I'm screaming at the product guys as to why they aren't trying to make more money if they're assured the performance is there. 

 

You don't just build the best vehicles on the planet for a specific purpose without staking the claim to greatness by charging the fair price for it. Atleast that's what I think.

 

So why do people pay so much for a Porsche?

 

They buy it because it's a Porsche - and because the strong brand means the value is inherent. And if the value is inherent in the Alpha platform, I would be clawing, hunting to price it on top of a Mustang, that as by all accounts, the Alpha should by all means outsell the platform the Mustang is based on.

[oldshurst442]

All I'm saying is that sports cars are not just about the numbers, despite how we're led to believe. They're also about the experience.

 

We've had two generations of Corvettes busting Porsche 911s, yet I've never seen anyone ever say that Porsches are overpriced (the options are, but then again is a Veyron overpriced? Is all luxury then overpriced?), unless of course, they can't themselves can' afford them or really they don't understand the power of developing a strong brand, that excites people to pay for their indulgence.

 

If your purpose is to track a factory vehicle with some competence on a $45-50,000 budget, a Camaro is quite possibly the last vehicle you would get. Seriously. 

 

You would get a factory Miata and mod the crap out of it to stay in the budget.

 

By default no Mustang GT350 for anyone at that price. I wholeheartedly agree, Camaros lay the numbers. But it's not all about the numbers. People do buy things, they buy expectations. When they buy the Porsche, they buy it not because it has incredible stats in the hands of race drivers. 

 

If you can swing a Cadillac busting Camaro for over 20 grand less, then either the Camaro's woefully underpriced, and GM is driving its Alpha margins into the ground, or the Cadillac is overpriced. And now I suspect its both.

 

And for someone looking at GM to build a strong brand, they should be charging more.

 

If I'm the product planner at GM, I'm screaming at the product guys as to why they aren't trying to make more money if they're assured the performance is there. 

 

You don't just build the best vehicles on the planet for a specific purpose without staking the claim to greatness by charging the fair price for it. Atleast that's what I think.

 

So why do people pay so much for a Porsche?

 

They buy it because it's a Porsche - and because the strong brand means the value is inherent. And if the value is inherent in the Alpha platform, I would be clawing, hunting to price it on top of a Mustang, that as by all accounts, the Alpha should by all means outsell the platform the Mustang is based on.

YUP!

 

And THAT is what I wanted to say...and I did say some things you said...except I did not take what EL K was saying seriously...so my responses became childish...because his constant berating was...childish...

 

It seems he wasnt interested in an adult conversation...just an adolescent one...and he got it from me.

[ccap41]

All I'm saying is that sports cars are not just about the numbers, despite what Bong wants us to believe. They're also about the experience.

 

We've had two generations of Corvettes busting Porsche 911s, yet I've never seen anyone ever say that Porsches are overpriced (the options are, but then again is a Veyron overpriced? Is all luxury then overpriced?), unless of course, they can't themselves can' afford them or really they don't understand the power of developing a strong brand, that excites people to pay for their indulgence.

 

If your purpose is to track a factory vehicle with some competence on a $45-50,000 budget, a Camaro is quite possibly the last vehicle you would get. Seriously. 

 

You would get a factory Miata and mod the crap out of it to stay in the budget.

 

By default no Mustang GT350 for anyone at that price. I wholeheartedly agree, Camaros lay the numbers. But it's not all about the numbers. People do buy things, they buy expectations. When they buy the Porsche, they buy it not because it has incredible stats in the hands of race drivers. 

 

If you can swing a Cadillac busting Camaro for over 20 grand less, then either the Camaro's woefully under priced, and GM is driving its Alpha margins into the ground, or the Cadillac is overpriced. And now I suspect its both.

 

And for someone looking at GM to build a strong brand, they should be charging more.

 

If I'm the product planner at GM, I'm screaming at the product guys as to why they aren't trying to make more money if they're assured the performance is there. 

 

You don't just build the best vehicles on the planet for a specific purpose without staking the claim to greatness by charging the fair price for it. At least that's what I think.

 

So why do people pay so much for a Porsche?

 

They buy it because it's a Porsche - and because the strong brand means the value is inherent. And if the value is inherent in the Alpha platform, I would be clawing, hunting to price it on top of a Mustang, that as by all accounts, the Alpha should by all means outsell the platform the Mustang is based on.

I corrected that for you Suav  

 

But you are correct. Sometimes there are cars that are just special and numbers don't tell the whole story. For example, the Miata. That's another car that the numbers don't tell the whole story yet it is a great car and everybody that drives them seems to love them. 

[ccap41]

 

LOL @ "non-competitive product" (referring to the GT350/R) 

 

That right there is now I, and everybody else, can't take a damn word of yours serious when you start talking GM vs anything.

"I just bought a Mustang for 57 grand that's no quicker around a course than a 42 grand Camaro!"

#fanboism

#badlifechoices

 

Well, at this point, prove it. Let's see the comparison that shows the GT350 being "no quicker" than a 1LE. 

 

You're doing an awful lot of talking for something that hasn't even been driven yet. 

 

Remember that thing you said "If all you can do to counter my article is call me a fanboy then I've already won."   Go on... 

[FordCosworth]

The GT350/R over priced says the GM Fanboy

 

Yet it ( The R ) laid waste to the pricier Z/28....

 

Hmmm

[FordCosworth]

Heck the $56,970 GT350 recently beat the $70,830 Corvette Z51 over at C&D.

 

Going by that GM Fanboys logic, the Corvette is over priced then.

[surreal1272]

All I'm saying is that sports cars are not just about the numbers, despite how we're led to believe. They're also about the experience.

 

We've had two generations of Corvettes busting Porsche 911s, yet I've never seen anyone ever say that Porsches are overpriced (the options are, but then again is a Veyron overpriced? Is all luxury then overpriced?), unless of course, they can't themselves can' afford them or really they don't understand the power of developing a strong brand, that excites people to pay for their indulgence.

 

If your purpose is to track a factory vehicle with some competence on a $45-50,000 budget, a Camaro is quite possibly the last vehicle you would get. Seriously. 

 

You would get a factory Miata and mod the crap out of it to stay in the budget.

 

By default no Mustang GT350 for anyone at that price. I wholeheartedly agree, Camaros lay the numbers. But it's not all about the numbers. People do buy things, they buy expectations. When they buy the Porsche, they buy it not because it has incredible stats in the hands of race drivers. 

 

If you can swing a Cadillac busting Camaro for over 20 grand less, then either the Camaro's woefully underpriced, and GM is driving its Alpha margins into the ground, or the Cadillac is overpriced. And now I suspect its both.

 

And for someone looking at GM to build a strong brand, they should be charging more.

 

If I'm the product planner at GM, I'm screaming at the product guys as to why they aren't trying to make more money if they're assured the performance is there. 

 

You don't just build the best vehicles on the planet for a specific purpose without staking the claim to greatness by charging the fair price for it. Atleast that's what I think.

 

So why do people pay so much for a Porsche?

 

They buy it because it's a Porsche - and because the strong brand means the value is inherent. And if the value is inherent in the Alpha platform, I would be clawing, hunting to price it on top of a Mustang, that as by all accounts, the Alpha should by all means outsell the platform the Mustang is based on.

Don't know where you live and who you talk to but I hear people saying Porsche is overpriced all the time. This is not news either.

[ccap41]

It didn't beat it in performance measurements though. 0-60, 60-0, 1/4 mile, skid pad, etc... Which is all Bong cares about. 

 

I did find it interesting that they tied to 150mph @ 22.1 seconds. I assume it has to do with the shift points of each car. The Vette may have just shifted while the GT350 hadn't..because that sky-high red line. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by ccap41

[surreal1272]

For the silly boys who are trying to compare the GT350 to the Vette Z51, maybe they should actually read that article. When a car whens on "feeL" (and that where they gave the GT350 the victory), that is not exactly very convincing to me. That "feel", which was just another way of saying "golly, that engine noise sure is swell", will wear off in time for the driver and then they are left to wonder why they can't actually keep up with that Vette (that has far more features and content, which was pointed out in the same article). Just saying, before fanboys try to throw out a pointless counter to what has been said here, maybe they should actually read what they are trying to counter.

 

Fact is that none of these cars are slouches but when Ford's top Mustang already has a $10K cheaper Camaro (that is not even close to it's top dog model yet), that is not good news for Ford. Enjoy that sweet engine note while it lasts. It's sounds even better when it's behind you (if you're a Camaro driver).

It didn't beat it in performance measurements though. 0-60, 60-0, 1/4 mile, skid pad, etc... Which is all Bong cares about. 

 

I did find it interesting that they tied to 150mph @ 22.1 seconds. I assume it has to do with the shift points of each car. The Vette may have just shifted while the GT350 hadn't..because that sky-high red line. 

The Vette beat it in almost every performance metric. Sorry, but a sweet engine note alone does not a car make.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Edited February 17, 2016 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

You also think this is the 'top dog' Mustang? There are rumors like there are for the Camaro ZL1 about a GT500. 

 

The term "feel" is something that goes hand in hand with a true driver's car. It takes some of the electronic-ness and new gadgets out of the equation(like the Z/28 did) and give you a car that is designed for one thing, gettin' after it. Yes, the Corvette is the better cruiser with more amenities and probably a plusher ride(while still being able to out pace the GT350 around a road course) but that doesn't mean it is truly a better driver's car. Like the Camaro took down cars that were faster than it, the GT350 is doing the same exact thing. But, then there are people who try and push agendas like they're getting paid for it and try and dismiss great cars it is just childish and ignorant because their own brand of choice did a similar car just 2 years ago that was even more pricey, but no less a great freakin' car. It's just bad when one company does it and not the other. 

 

GT350 is a mistake, Z/28 was great. *rolls eyes* 

 

Also, dismissing "feel" is sad.. That is what makes the Miata a great car, Lotus great cars, Porsche Caymans were underpowered for a long time but they were great cars, The GTI is underpowered for its class but it has great "feel", great car. Heck 80's(I think) Corvettes were ungodly slow but people still loved them and they were still very good cars for their era. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by ccap41

[ccap41]

For the silly boys who are trying to compare the GT350 to the Vette Z51, maybe they should actually read that article. When a car whens on "feeL" (and that where they gave the GT350 the victory), that is not exactly very convincing to me. That "feel", which was just another way of saying "golly, that engine noise sure is swell", will wear off in time for the driver and then they are left to wonder why they can't actually keep up with that Vette (that has far more features and content, which was pointed out in the same article). Just saying, before fanboys try to throw out a pointless counter to what has been said here, maybe they should actually read what they are trying to counter.

 

Fact is that none of these cars are slouches but when Ford's top Mustang already has a $10K cheaper Camaro (that is not even close to it's top dog model yet), that is not good news for Ford. Enjoy that sweet engine note while it lasts. It's sounds even better when it's behind you (if you're a Camaro driver).

It didn't beat it in performance measurements though. 0-60, 60-0, 1/4 mile, skid pad, etc... Which is all Bong cares about. 

 

I did find it interesting that they tied to 150mph @ 22.1 seconds. I assume it has to do with the shift points of each car. The Vette may have just shifted while the GT350 hadn't..because that sky-high red line. 

The Vette beat it in almost every performance metric. Sorry, but a sweet engine note alone does not a car make.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Yes, I pointed that out.

 

Nor does pure numbers. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by ccap41

[surreal1272]

You also think this is the 'top dog' Mustang? There are rumors like there are for the Camaro ZL1 about a GT500. 

 

The term "feel" is something that goes hand in hand with a true driver's car. It takes some of the electronic-ness and new gadgets out of the equation(like the Z/28 did) and give you a car that is designed for one thing, gettin' after it. Yes, the Corvette is the better cruiser with more amenities and probably a plusher ride(while still being able to out pace the GT350 around a road course) but that doesn't mean it is truly a better driver's car. Like the Camaro took down cars that were faster than it, the GT350 is doing the same exact thing. But, then there are people who try and push agendas like they're getting paid for it and try and dismiss great cars it is just childish and ignorant because their own brand of choice did a similar car just 2 years ago that was even more pricey, but no less a great freakin' car. It's just bad when one company does it and not the other. 

 

GT350 is a mistake, Z/28 was great. *rolls eyes* 

 

Also, dismissing "feel" is sad.. That is what makes the Miata a great car, Lotus great cars, Porsche Caymans were underpowered for a long time but they were great cars, The GTI is underpowered for its class but it has great "feel", great car. Heck 80's(I think) Corvettes were ungodly slow but people still loved them and they were still very good cars for their era. 

We will agree to disagree. Just pointing out the differences here.

 

BTW, dismissing feel is not sad when you understand that feel is subjective. Don't know why you feel the need to go after me, by caking it "sad" because I pointed out that. Sorry but you have a clear bias to the Stang so your defense and rebuttals come off just as fan boyish as Bongs. No offense.

 

For the silly boys who are trying to compare the GT350 to the Vette Z51, maybe they should actually read that article. When a car whens on "feeL" (and that where they gave the GT350 the victory), that is not exactly very convincing to me. That "feel", which was just another way of saying "golly, that engine noise sure is swell", will wear off in time for the driver and then they are left to wonder why they can't actually keep up with that Vette (that has far more features and content, which was pointed out in the same article). Just saying, before fanboys try to throw out a pointless counter to what has been said here, maybe they should actually read what they are trying to counter.

 

Fact is that none of these cars are slouches but when Ford's top Mustang already has a $10K cheaper Camaro (that is not even close to it's top dog model yet), that is not good news for Ford. Enjoy that sweet engine note while it lasts. It's sounds even better when it's behind you (if you're a Camaro driver).

It didn't beat it in performance measurements though. 0-60, 60-0, 1/4 mile, skid pad, etc... Which is all Bong cares about. 

 

I did find it interesting that they tied to 150mph @ 22.1 seconds. I assume it has to do with the shift points of each car. The Vette may have just shifted while the GT350 hadn't..because that sky-high red line. 

The Vette beat it in almost every performance metric. Sorry, but a sweet engine note alone does not a car make.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Yes, I pointed that out.

 

Nor does pure numbers. 

 

Show of hands. What's more important? Performance or engine note?

 

I vote one for performance.

Edited February 17, 2016 by surreal1272

[El Kabong]

So anyways, this 1LE is really shaping up to put the Shelby on the trailer.

[El Kabong]

LOL @ "non-competitive product" (referring to the GT350/R)

That right there is now I, and everybody else, can't take a damn word of yours serious when you start talking GM vs anything.

"I just bought a Mustang for 57 grand that's no quicker around a course than a 42 grand Camaro!"

#fanboism

#badlifechoices

Well, at this point, prove it. Let's see the comparison that shows the GT350 being "no quicker" than a 1LE.

You're doing an awful lot of talking for something that hasn't even been driven yet.

Remember that thing you said "If all you can do to counter my article is call me a fanboy then I've already won." Go on...

Well, we already know the stock SS will get to 60 quicker than a GT350. So ya, there's that Edited February 17, 2016 by El Kabong

[ccap41]

 

You also think this is the 'top dog' Mustang? There are rumors like there are for the Camaro ZL1 about a GT500. 

 

The term "feel" is something that goes hand in hand with a true driver's car. It takes some of the electronic-ness and new gadgets out of the equation(like the Z/28 did) and give you a car that is designed for one thing, gettin' after it. Yes, the Corvette is the better cruiser with more amenities and probably a plusher ride(while still being able to out pace the GT350 around a road course) but that doesn't mean it is truly a better driver's car. Like the Camaro took down cars that were faster than it, the GT350 is doing the same exact thing. But, then there are people who try and push agendas like they're getting paid for it and try and dismiss great cars it is just childish and ignorant because their own brand of choice did a similar car just 2 years ago that was even more pricey, but no less a great freakin' car. It's just bad when one company does it and not the other. 

 

GT350 is a mistake, Z/28 was great. *rolls eyes* 

 

Also, dismissing "feel" is sad.. That is what makes the Miata a great car, Lotus great cars, Porsche Caymans were underpowered for a long time but they were great cars, The GTI is underpowered for its class but it has great "feel", great car. Heck 80's(I think) Corvettes were ungodly slow but people still loved them and they were still very good cars for their era. 

We will agree to disagree. Just pointing out the differences here.

 

BTW, dismissing feel is not sad when you understand that feel is subjective. Don't know why you feel the need to go after me, by caking it "sad" because I pointed out that. Sorry but you have a clear bias to the Stang so your defense and rebuttals come off just as fan boyish as Bongs. No offense.

 

For the silly boys who are trying to compare the GT350 to the Vette Z51, maybe they should actually read that article. When a car whens on "feeL" (and that where they gave the GT350 the victory), that is not exactly very convincing to me. That "feel", which was just another way of saying "golly, that engine noise sure is swell", will wear off in time for the driver and then they are left to wonder why they can't actually keep up with that Vette (that has far more features and content, which was pointed out in the same article). Just saying, before fanboys try to throw out a pointless counter to what has been said here, maybe they should actually read what they are trying to counter.

 

Fact is that none of these cars are slouches but when Ford's top Mustang already has a $10K cheaper Camaro (that is not even close to it's top dog model yet), that is not good news for Ford. Enjoy that sweet engine note while it lasts. It's sounds even better when it's behind you (if you're a Camaro driver).

It didn't beat it in performance measurements though. 0-60, 60-0, 1/4 mile, skid pad, etc... Which is all Bong cares about. 

 

I did find it interesting that they tied to 150mph @ 22.1 seconds. I assume it has to do with the shift points of each car. The Vette may have just shifted while the GT350 hadn't..because that sky-high red line. 

The Vette beat it in almost every performance metric. Sorry, but a sweet engine note alone does not a car make.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Yes, I pointed that out.

 

Nor does pure numbers. 

 

Show of hands. What's more important? Performance or engine note?

 

I vote one for performance.

 

So all Lotuses, Porsche Caymans, GTIs, Fiesta STs, and Miatas have going for them is their engine note? C'mon.. If you honest to goodness think all that goes into making a car great is performance numbers then you're not a car guy, you're a tech guy. That's fine, it really is. But don't pretend to be a car enthusiast if all you care about is bench racing numbers. 

[ccap41]

 

 

 

LOL @ "non-competitive product" (referring to the GT350/R)

That right there is now I, and everybody else, can't take a damn word of yours serious when you start talking GM vs anything.

"I just bought a Mustang for 57 grand that's no quicker around a course than a 42 grand Camaro!"

#fanboism

#badlifechoices

Well, at this point, prove it. Let's see the comparison that shows the GT350 being "no quicker" than a 1LE.

You're doing an awful lot of talking for something that hasn't even been driven yet.

Remember that thing you said "If all you can do to counter my article is call me a fanboy then I've already won." Go on...

Well, we already know the stock SS will get to 60 quicker than a GT350. So ya, there's that

 

All you want is some track racing numbers, let's hear them from these two. Apparently the GT350 is "no quicker" than a 1LE. So show it.   

So anyways, this 1LE is really shaping up to put the Shelby on the trailer.

Is the trailer enclosed with matching stripes, at least?  

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

For the silly boys who are trying to compare the GT350 to the Vette Z51, maybe they should actually read that article. When a car whens on "feeL" (and that where they gave the GT350 the victory), that is not exactly very convincing to me. That "feel", which was just another way of saying "golly, that engine noise sure is swell", will wear off in time for the driver and then they are left to wonder why they can't actually keep up with that Vette (that has far more features and content, which was pointed out in the same article). Just saying, before fanboys try to throw out a pointless counter to what has been said here, maybe they should actually read what they are trying to counter.

 

Fact is that none of these cars are slouches but when Ford's top Mustang already has a $10K cheaper Camaro (that is not even close to it's top dog model yet), that is not good news for Ford. Enjoy that sweet engine note while it lasts. It's sounds even better when it's behind you (if you're a Camaro driver).

It didn't beat it in performance measurements though. 0-60, 60-0, 1/4 mile, skid pad, etc... Which is all Bong cares about. 

 

I did find it interesting that they tied to 150mph @ 22.1 seconds. I assume it has to do with the shift points of each car. The Vette may have just shifted while the GT350 hadn't..because that sky-high red line. 

The Vette beat it in almost every performance metric. Sorry, but a sweet engine note alone does not a car make.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-vs-2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-4

Yes, I pointed that out.

 

Nor does pure numbers. 

 

Show of hands. What's more important? Performance or engine note?

 

I vote one for performance.

 

So all Lotuses, Porsche Caymans, GTIs, Fiesta STs, and Miatas have going for them is their engine note? C'mon.. If you honest to goodness think all that goes into making a car great is performance numbers then you're not a car guy, you're a tech guy. That's fine, it really is. But don't pretend to be a car enthusiast if all you care about is bench racing numbers. 

 

The same could be said for you. I am merely pointing out the important aspects of a performance car for me. You are emphasizing engine noise and "feel". What's makes you anymore of an enthusiast when you are only looking at one aspect as well? Hint, nothing so don't insult me with that BS just I have different needs in a car than you. Nothing you have said here makes you anymore of an "enthusiast" as myself so again, just drop that ccap because you're coming off as ignorant with comments like that. Sorry.

[ccap41]

 

 

Show of hands. What's more important? Performance or engine note?

 

 

 

 

 

I vote one for performance.

 

So all Lotuses, Porsche Caymans, GTIs, Fiesta STs, and Miatas have going for them is their engine note? C'mon.. If you honest to goodness think all that goes into making a car great is performance numbers then you're not a car guy, you're a tech guy. That's fine, it really is. But don't pretend to be a car enthusiast if all you care about is bench racing numbers. 

 

The same could be said for you. I am merely pointing out the important aspects of a performance car for me. You are emphasizing engine noise and "feel". What's makes you anymore of an enthusiast when you are only looking at one aspect as well? Hint, nothing so don't insult me with that BS just I have different needs in a car than you. Nothing you have said here makes you anymore of an "enthusiast" as myself so again, just drop that ccap because you're coming off as ignorant with comments like that. Sorry.

 

I never said I was dismissing any aspect of either car. I also have not brought up engine tone, sound, volume, or noise into this thread. I have not made one comment on the sound of said engine in this thread. So I have yet so even put ANY emphasis on "noise". 

 

Suave put it perfectly, "All I'm saying is that sports cars are not just about the numbers, despite how we're led to believe. They're also about the experience." Nothing about that dismissed anything about either car but said that a car is more than just numbers, more than just feel, it is the entire package that makes a great car a great car. Bong has thrown all the eggs in the numbers basket saying the 1LE will be "put the Shelby on the trailer." and that "Well, we already know the stock SS will get to 60 quicker than a GT350."

 

Ignorant is measuring the greatness of a car from purely performance numbers, a la Bong. "Everybody" loves Miatas and GTIs for a reason, and it sure as heck isn't because they run low 11's in the 1/4 from the factory, sure as heck isn't because they have a howlin' V8 under the hood but because they give the driver an experience they cannot get in almost any other car. There's a good chance it's that. Are they slow? No. So performance numbers mean SOMETHING as well. Neither can be completely dismissed. 

[FordCosworth]

I searched and found nothing anywhere that the GT350 is " no quicker " on a course than a 1LE.

 

I'll second that " so show it ".

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

Show of hands. What's more important? Performance or engine note?

 

 

 

 

 

I vote one for performance.

 

So all Lotuses, Porsche Caymans, GTIs, Fiesta STs, and Miatas have going for them is their engine note? C'mon.. If you honest to goodness think all that goes into making a car great is performance numbers then you're not a car guy, you're a tech guy. That's fine, it really is. But don't pretend to be a car enthusiast if all you care about is bench racing numbers. 

 

The same could be said for you. I am merely pointing out the important aspects of a performance car for me. You are emphasizing engine noise and "feel". What's makes you anymore of an enthusiast when you are only looking at one aspect as well? Hint, nothing so don't insult me with that BS just I have different needs in a car than you. Nothing you have said here makes you anymore of an "enthusiast" as myself so again, just drop that ccap because you're coming off as ignorant with comments like that. Sorry.

 

I never said I was dismissing any aspect of either car. I also have not brought up engine tone, sound, volume, or noise into this thread. I have not made one comment on the sound of said engine in this thread. So I have yet so even put ANY emphasis on "noise". 

 

Suave put it perfectly, "All I'm saying is that sports cars are not just about the numbers, despite how we're led to believe. They're also about the experience." Nothing about that dismissed anything about either car but said that a car is more than just numbers, more than just feel, it is the entire package that makes a great car a great car. Bong has thrown all the eggs in the numbers basket saying the 1LE will be "put the Shelby on the trailer." and that "Well, we already know the stock SS will get to 60 quicker than a GT350."

 

Ignorant is measuring the greatness of a car from purely performance numbers, a la Bong. "Everybody" loves Miatas and GTIs for a reason, and it sure as heck isn't because they run low 11's in the 1/4 from the factory, sure as heck isn't because they have a howlin' V8 under the hood but because they give the driver an experience they cannot get in almost any other car. There's a good chance it's that. Are they slow? No. So performance numbers mean SOMETHING as well. Neither can be completely dismissed. 

 

BS. I understand about feel and what it means to folks. That's not my problem here. You think I am not an "enthusiast" because I don't look enough at the feel, which is a crock. Nothing you have said has made you any more of an enthusiast than myself. You act you are getting paid when you are just like me. You like cars. Nothing less, nothing more. The labels are just unfounded bull$h!.

 

What's even funnier is that while you are criticizing Bong, you ignored (for months) the ignorant banter that a certain Ford lover was throwing out regarding the Camaro because you obviously like the Stang more. You its let it slide whereas here, you jump on Bong for doing the same thing that the Ford fan was doing. 

Edited February 17, 2016 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

Lol, well, looks like you took this out of Camaro and GT350 talk or even talking about cars. Well done. 

 

I have talked to both of the Ford guys via PM to knock it off in the past. But that is nothing that needs to be discussed in this thread, If you're that concerned about that you can PM me instead of botching the rest of the thread up with getting over personal for no reason. That stuff you speak of is in the past, let it go. 

[surreal1272]

Lol, well, looks like you took this out of Camaro and GT350 talk or even talking about cars. Well done. 

 

I have talked to both of the Ford guys via PM to knock it off in the past. But that is nothing that needs to be discussed in this thread, If you're that concerned about that you can PM me instead of botching the rest of the thread up with getting over personal for no reason. That stuff you speak of is in the past, let it go. 

Take a look at your earlier posts on the previous page. Aside from what I just brought up, you completely ignored the fact that you brought this on form the start with the stupid "your not an enthusiast" nonsense when that is a crock of $h!. Understand my issue with you now?

 

BTW, you say you PM'd the Ford trolls before, which I understand. How come you don't do the same for Bong here, instead of wasting pages talking about that very thing you said you don't want? 

Edited February 17, 2016 by surreal1272

[El Kabong]

So anyways, here's some pretty compelling evidence that Ford is cluing in that they need to try and make the Shelby GT350 more competitive versus the 1LE. Either that or they realized that "limited-slip diff" and "flat-crank engine" probably should never have been mutually exclusive terms.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/ford-changes-2017-mustang-shelby-gt350s-standard-optional-equipment/

[FordCosworth]

So anyways, here's some pretty compelling evidence that Ford is cluing in that they need to try and make the Shelby GT350 more competitive versus the 1LE. Either that or they realized that "limited-slip diff" and "flat-crank engine" probably should never have been mutually exclusive terms.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/ford-changes-2017-mustang-shelby-gt350s-standard-optional-equipment/

Please show where the GT350 isn't competitive against the 1LE.

I searched and couldn't find and comparisons that the two cars have had that shows the GT350 needs to be more competitive

Thanks

[surreal1272]

So anyways, here's some pretty compelling evidence that Ford is cluing in that they need to try and make the Shelby GT350 more competitive versus the 1LE. Either that or they realized that "limited-slip diff" and "flat-crank engine" probably should never have been mutually exclusive terms.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/ford-changes-2017-mustang-shelby-gt350s-standard-optional-equipment/

So I guess even Ford feels that the tech should be just as important as the "feel".

[El Kabong]

More like they're trying to figure out how to use forced economics of scale to cut that yawning price gap down. But alas.

If you search the acceleration times of the SS and GT350 you will find that only at the quarter-mile does the Shelby pull out any advantage on the Camaro.

Then we have this video, where the presenter concludes that the only real advantage the Shelby may have is on the track. Maybe:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0sNUs-xRRjk

But mostly at this point I'll just stick with Al O's claims, because he's been stealing Dearborn's thunder with Camaros now for years.

It's funny. Reading cosworth's posts I get this déjà vu about this nutbar who used to hound me for what I thought the Alpha Camaro SS would weigh. Finally to shut him up I pulled out a weight that came within a case of bottled water of being correct.

I'm pretty sure that's how this little tiff will end as well.

Edited February 17, 2016 by El Kabong

[El Kabong]

So... two more links. Two more third-party sources that support my belief that the Shelby GT350 has pricing and performance issues versus the 1LE.

I anxiously await the faux-rage that will inevitably follow.

[ccap41]

It has pricing issues? 

[El Kabong]

At an as-tested price of 57 grand or so with the optional go-fast goodies (per that C/D comparo)... yup. It DEFINITELY has price issues.

Edited February 17, 2016 by El Kabong

[ccap41]

Based on, your opinion?

 

Because last I knew they were selling about as quick as dealers could get their hands on them. The one I posed about earlier was sold in 2 or 3 days from delivery. 

 

If adding options from the base model means there is a pricing issue then every vehicle has pricing issues because models get updated with more and more base features every year. 

 

Wanna see some a-hole dealer markup??

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=62249&endYear=2017&modelCode1=MUST&showcaseOwnerId=3251723&makeCode1=FORD&startYear=1981&firstRecord=0&searchRadius=100&showcaseListingId=387682870&mmt=%5BFORD%5BMUST%5BMUST%257CShelby%2BGT350%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=421898549&Log=0

Edited February 17, 2016 by ccap41

[El Kabong]

The first real model year for a Shelby Mustang is selling at list. That's already a reality check for some dealers, and likely some Ford fans.

But it was pretty much a given when you saw what you were getting for the money, which is: a high redline. Well, ok. But if you're buying one with all the go-fast goodies like the one C/D just tested, you're more than likely going to be staring down the wrong end of a 15-grand price differential, and probably a set of Camaro taillights.

Look. I've seen stuff like this play out a million times in the car-mag racket, and I'm pretty confident I can now discern between fluff and real kudos. When Car and Driver decides to put the Shelby against a Corvette and then gush about how it "feels?"

That's because they know that it they put it against the Camaro they'd be honor-bound to anoint the Camaro the winner. And the 1LE is just the exclamation point.

[FordCosworth]

More like they're trying to figure out how to use forced economics of scale to cut that yawning price gap down. But alas.

If you search the acceleration times of the SS and GT350 you will find that only at the quarter-mile does the Shelby pull out any advantage on the Camaro.

Then we have this video, where the presenter concludes that the only real advantage the Shelby may have is on the track. Maybe:

But mostly at this point I'll just stick with Al O's claims, because he's been stealing Dearborn's thunder with Camaros now for years.

It's funny. Reading cosworth's posts I get this déjà vu about this nutbar who used to hound me for what I thought the Alpha Camaro SS would weigh. Finally to shut him up I pulled out a weight that came within a case of bottled water of being correct.

I'm pretty sure that's how this little tiff will end as well.

 

 

Deja vu is correct....

 

Like you assuring the Z/28 was quicker that the GT350R ( 0-60 ), so to shut you up, i went to the source to prove you wrong...

[El Kabong]

Eh, the video editor screwed the pooch with the graphics. I'm content knowing that the Zeta was still capable of knocking off the S550 in one or two other MT vids. My details aren't perfect, but my underlying thesis is.

Ford needs to try harder with this car.

Edited February 17, 2016 by El Kabong

[surreal1272]

Some seem to have short memories here.

Edited February 17, 2016 by surreal1272

[El Kabong]

Some haven't been too eager to comment on my video either. But alas

Edited February 17, 2016 by El Kabong

[oldshurst442]

Cut the BULLSHYTE EL K!!!

 

Just cut it out!

 

I wanna know why you hate upon the GT350!!!!

 

Dont give the BULLSYTE excuse that the 1LE is superior crap!

The 1LE aint even out yet...the GT350 is already in its SECOND YEAR!!!

 

 

YOU are rather that pumped up that Chevy will obviously try to upsatge the GT350? It aint rocket science,man!

 

Since 1967, the pony car wars are as follows:

 

Company 1 brings out a trim version of their pony car that surpasses all performance levels of previous years...

Company 2 the following year, updates their version to beat last year's competition model.

Company 1 brings out an updated model to upstage the competition the following year.

Company 2 brings out another brand new model to upstage competition the following year.

Company 1 also brings out another model to.....the following year.

 

 

Why must you insist in embarrassing yourself with this childish antic of yours?

 

Tell me...why the PHOKING hatred for the GT350?

Because other than stupid childish numbers that YOU personally will NEVER get to experience...there is really no reason for you to be so stupid about a GT350...

 

And yeah...you are just another arm chair bench racer EL K...

No different than my nephew playing Forsa 3 or Grand Turismo 5 on hos XBOX and Playstation 3...

 

You know...wait 'til next year excuses are right up your alley!

The GT350 last year...was in a league on all its own!

Yet YOU, not a single word of BRAVADO...but this year...you are all high and mighty for your 1LE...

 

 

SHOVE THE 1LE up your ASS EL K!!!

SHOVE IT DEEP!!!

 

Before you shove it up your ass EL K...

 

ANSWER ME WHY YOU HATE ON THE GT350...and DONT GIVE ME PERFORMANCE NUMBERS...because YOU are an ARM CHAIR BENCH RACER!

 

PS: maybe you should try the blue pill Oval badge GT350...it might actually make your penis rise because obviously you have a slight defecit problem in that area the way you wax poetic about a 1LE that aint even out for sale yet! 

Edited February 17, 2016 by oldshurst442

[FordCosworth]

Eh, the video editor screwed the pooch with the graphics. I'm content knowing that the Zeta was still capable of knocking off the S550 in one or two other MT vids. My details aren't perfect, but my underlying thesis is.

Ford needs to try harder with this car.

 

 

Wow... Pure trolling.

 

Never has anyone but a person whos never driven the car, claims Ford needs to try harder. 

[El Kabong]

I don't hate on the GT350. I just provide vids and links that show that the Camaro does as well or better for a far lower price.

Calm down already

[El Kabong]

Eh, the video editor screwed the pooch with the graphics. I'm content knowing that the Zeta was still capable of knocking off the S550 in one or two other MT vids. My details aren't perfect, but my underlying thesis is.

Ford needs to try harder with this car.

Wow... Pure trolling.

Never has anyone but a person whos never driven the car, claims Ford needs to try harder.

I think that most reasonable folks would agree that a 50-some grand Mustang should have a clearer-cut advantage-indeed, any apparent advantage-over a Camaro SS that starts at 37.

But it doesn't, at least according to the vid I posted. That ain't trolling on my part.

That's you being entertaining.

Edited February 17, 2016 by El Kabong

[oldshurst442]

Yes...Im PISSED OFF!

 

Wings is no longer around. I did not think Id be reading the same shyte again, this time on a GM level rather than a Ford.

 

I happen to love ALL American cars...not the ones that employ me....or in your case EL K....EMPLOYED me...

 

Yeah...you are no better than him, dude!