2016 Detroit Auto Show: 2017 Lincoln Continental: Comments

[Drew Dowdell]

Quick edit, the VW Haldex system actually sends 95% power to the front wheels.  Some BMWs are 36/64 split.

 

The Cadillac STS and CTS were 40/60 splits, the ATS actually has a 30/70 split.  The Jaguar all wheel drive defaults 100% rear, uses a 30/70 split in winter mode and can adjust to 50/50 if there is wheel slippage.

 

All these systems are rear biased, because as I said, you want drive power to the back wheels.

 

The systems are biased because of the orientation of the engines... and the defaults aren't the defaults during heavy acceleration.  The best AWD systems are the ones that can shift power around front to rear or rear to front. 

 

The system Ford is using in the Focus RS, Continental, and others that I'm forgetting is the GKN system that can send all the power to the rear wheels when needed or is programmed to.  The latest versions of Haldex can send up to 90% to the rear wheels and they don't need to wait for slip to occur to engage the rear wheels. The Chrysler system linked to the 9-Speed FWD auto can be (and is in the 200S) programmed to favor power to the rear wheels rather than the front when in sport mode.   The new Dual-Clutch in the most recent GMs (XT5, Acadia All-Terrain, Buick LaCrosse) is just a variant of the GKN system. Even my Encore sends 50% of the torque to the rear when starting out and then dials it back to FWD mode once underway.

 

So let me ask you a question.... when you're just poking along on the turnpike, why do you care which wheels are powering you along? It's not like you'll feel any difference front to rear in that situation.  The only time it matters is in full throttle acceleration or Nurbergring type driving.... the former is addressed through AWD system programming and the later is irrelevant to the typical buyer in this class. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Maybe they should make the Corvette, Camaro and Mustang FWD as well, since it is so good.  And since V8s aren't needed anymore, make the 3.0TT V6 as the top engine in the Mustang.  

 

I wonder what would happen to Mustang sales if it was FWD/AWD with no V8 option?  Hmmmmm

 

Don't be daft... different types of cars.  

[Suaviloquent]

Again, the detractors of this car can't find any reasonable angle to dig against it other then preconceived notions of what luxury buyers want - which are of course a reflection of their own beliefs. And Lincoln has made it a point to NOT chase after those buyers, that are essentially badge sensitive. 

 

Honestly, like I can look for Lincoln to say it's the ultimate driving machine, but I'll always be left wanting because atleast Lincoln had the good fortune knowing its target buyer could not give a damn about what wheels turn which way other than the interior is tasty and the exterior is stylish, and it gets out of its own way.

 

But the front and rear seats make it clear it might just be the ultimate car to sit in for its expected price structure.

[ocnblu]

Please post a photo of a black-over-black Continental AWD 400 hp.  Thanks.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Remember, this is little more than an MKS update/replacement.  And an interim one at that. From that perspective, it appears to be an excellent one.

Using the name alone was brilliant.

 

But again, pricing will be key.

Current MKS MSRP is $38,850.  A starting price of about $44,850 seems like a good base point for this new MKS, errr, I mean Continental.  That will get you a 305hp V6 and a competitive feature set.  CT6 starts at $53,495 with an I4.  Another $2K is needed to get you the V6 and  I know you can build it to over $91K with the top trim, interior, engine, etc. So I think the Continental should peak at about $80K, and I think they will be pretty closely matched in performance and features at their respective price.  I also think the Continental will easily outsell it as well. For what that's worth, which for Lincoln, is plenty.

[ccap41]

Please post a photo of a black-over-black Continental AWD 400 hp.  Thanks.

I want this as well.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Quick edit, the VW Haldex system actually sends 95% power to the front wheels.  Some BMWs are 36/64 split.

 

The Cadillac STS and CTS were 40/60 splits, the ATS actually has a 30/70 split.  The Jaguar all wheel drive defaults 100% rear, uses a 30/70 split in winter mode and can adjust to 50/50 if there is wheel slippage.

 

All these systems are rear biased, because as I said, you want drive power to the back wheels.

 

 

Why are we still talking about old Cadillac systems when the new systems are launching with the CT6?  Cadillac's Active On-Demand all-wheel-drive (AWD) system which allows variation of 80/20, 60/40 and 50/50 split depending on the mode selected.. again Sport mode and U get a 20/80 front/rear split, Tour gets 40/60, and Snow mode splits it right down the middle. I love that. 

 

And then there is this depiction of greatness in the splendid design. Just MONEY

 

[surreal1272]

 

 

If you look at most of the luxury all wheel drive systems they send more power to the back than the front.  Audi Quattro is a 50-50 set up, although the R8 sends 85% to the rear wheels.  A VW with all wheel drive sends about 90% power to the front wheels, and will only send more to the back if the wheels slip.

 

BMW is a 40/60 front to rear split, Mercedes is 45/55 split, except AMG cars are 33/67.  Because you want to power to the back, steering at the front.  My Mercedes is rear drive, I didn't want 4matic. 

 

As far as Mercedes with all their fwd appliances, they have 3 front drive models and 18 rear drive models.  

They used to have ZERO FWD models and it's real easy to pad your "18" count when you want to include every variant of each main model.

 

12 to 3 if not counting model variants or the vans.  They used to have zero but the world changed, and one of their fwd cars is a compliance car to meet electric car regs.  And the front drive is at the very bottom of the brand.  It isn't on their flagship.

 

The FWD GLA is not electric. In fact only one out of the three FWD MBs are electric so that little excuse does not fly. There are other reasons for them doing so but I understand that you have to come up with whatever excuse you can to justify your favorite make having what you would normally detest from anyone else. BTW, a world a difference between a $50K Lincoln Continental and $100K+ (in most trims) S-Class that it DOES NOT COMPETE WITH. Don't why everything from everyone else has to measure to an S-Class, even when said car does not compete with it.

[Drew Dowdell]

Remember, this is little more than an MKS update/replacement.  And an interim one at that. From that perspective, it appears to be an excellent one.

Using the name alone was brilliant.

 

But again, pricing will be key.

Current MKS MSRP is $38,850.  A starting price of about $44,850 seems like a good base point for this new MKS, errr, I mean Continental.  That will get you a 305hp V6 and a competitive feature set.  CT6 starts at $53,495 with an I4.  Another $2K is needed to get you the V6 and  I know you can build it to over $91K with the top trim, interior, engine, etc. So I think the Continental should peak at about $80K, and I think they will be pretty closely matched in performance and features at their respective price.  I also think the Continental will easily outsell it as well. For what that's worth, which for Lincoln, is plenty.

 

The advantage the CT6 will have is lower weight, and that's how it will get away with a 4-cylinder. A Continental is going to be near or over 4,000 in FWD form, the heaviest Fusion at 3600lbs is the same weight as the base CT6.   With Cadillac running an 8-speed auto, there is a good chance that the 4-cylinder CT6 will end up faster (slightly) in a 0-60 than a V6 FWD Continental.  

 

Things we already know:

2015 CTS 2.0T AWD 0-60 = 5.8 seconds.

2010 MKS Ecoboost AWD 0-60 = 5.8 seconds

 

The base CT6 is lighter than the CTS and is RWD rather than AWD so expect it to be slightly faster.

A new Continental is almost certainly going to be heavier than the outgoing MKS, so a 305 HP non-turbo V6 will be slower than a MKS Ecoboost.

 

Thus, 4-cylinder CT6 will be faster than V6 FWD Continental.  Could that change with new transmission other than the 6-speed on the Lincoln? Maybe, but it's still going to be very close due to weight differences. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

Remember, this is little more than an MKS update/replacement.  And an interim one at that. From that perspective, it appears to be an excellent one.

Using the name alone was brilliant.

 

But again, pricing will be key.

Current MKS MSRP is $38,850.  A starting price of about $44,850 seems like a good base point for this new MKS, errr, I mean Continental.  That will get you a 305hp V6 and a competitive feature set.  CT6 starts at $53,495 with an I4.  Another $2K is needed to get you the V6 and  I know you can build it to over $91K with the top trim, interior, engine, etc. So I think the Continental should peak at about $80K, and I think they will be pretty closely matched in performance and features at their respective price.  I also think the Continental will easily outsell it as well. For what that's worth, which for Lincoln, is plenty.

 

The advantage the CT6 will have is lower weight, and that's how it will get away with a 4-cylinder. A Continental is going to be near or over 4,000 in FWD form, the heaviest Fusion at 3600lbs is the same weight as the base CT6.   With Cadillac running an 8-speed auto, there is a good chance that the 4-cylinder CT6 will end up faster (slightly) in a 0-60 than a V6 FWD Continental.  

 

Things we already know:

2015 CTS 2.0T AWD 0-60 = 5.8 seconds.

2010 MKS Ecoboost AWD 0-60 = 5.8 seconds

 

The base CT6 is lighter than the CTS and is RWD rather than AWD so expect it to be slightly faster.

A new Continental is almost certainly going to be heavier than the outgoing MKS, so a 305 HP non-turbo V6 will be slower than a MKS Ecoboost.

 

Thus, 4-cylinder CT6 will be faster than V6 FWD Continental.  Could that change with new transmission other than the 6-speed on the Lincoln? Maybe, but it's still going to be very close due to weight differences. 

 

 

 

 

The largest concern I have going into any discussion is when people believe talking about which one is cheaper is the way of the world. Quite frankly I thought that the CT6 should have come in in the $60K range considering what one gets... but I see what they did to quell my issue. 

 

The $54,490 CT6 is a base trim level with the 2.0L Turbo LTG inline-four engine making 272 horses and 295 pound-feet of torque with 8-speed automatic transmission and with automatic engine Stop/Start. 

 

Next CT6 with the 2.0T engine is Luxury. with a few extras.. and a price of $59,390. Both are RWD

 

 

Next Up the CT6 offers 3.6L V6 LGX engine making 335 horsepower and 285 pound-feet of torque with 8-speed 8L45 automatic transmission and with automatic engine Stop/Start. This is exclusively in all-wheel drive and comes in

 

CT6 (base): $56,490

Luxury: $61,390

Premium Luxury: $64,565

Platinum: $84,460

 

 

 

Last up is the 3.0L LGW Twin-Turbo V6 with 400 horsepower and 400 pound-feet of torque and GM’s 8L90 8-speed automatic transmission. This is all-wheel drive only but, unlike the NA LGX V6 , the TT V6 LGW can only be configured in three trims levels:

 

 

Luxury: $65,390

Premium Luxury: $68,565

Platinum: $88,460

 

 

At almost $89,000.. one has to wonder if a paint upgrade alone might send it over $90,000 not to mention perhaps a few other things. But the question remains; What will the TTV8 VSport come in asking??? I'm guessing we are going over $120K at the end of the day,

[Drew Dowdell]

Na, I bet the V8TT starts around $90k

[ocnblu]

Continental lends itself well to canvas roof caps and Vogue wheels and tyres.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Na, I bet the V8TT starts around $90k

 

 

That "At the end of the day" part meant after all options. I agree.. the TTV8 shoudl come in a tad under the S-Class... as that is the real CT6 that would be competing with the V8 powered S-Class .

[smk4565]

 

Maybe they should make the Corvette, Camaro and Mustang FWD as well, since it is so good.  And since V8s aren't needed anymore, make the 3.0TT V6 as the top engine in the Mustang.  

 

I wonder what would happen to Mustang sales if it was FWD/AWD with no V8 option?  Hmmmmm

 

Don't be daft... different types of cars.  

 

Why should a buyer be asked to pay $60k or whatever the Continental will cost for a chassis and drivetrain inferior to a $30k Mustang? 

This is why Volvo S80, Lincoln sedans, Acura RLX, don't sell, why DeVille/DTS sales tanked into cancellation of the product.  People don't want to spend big bucks for a car with garden variety front drive, 6-speed, transverse engine, etc.

 

If I were going to pay $60k or more for a car, I'd want performance, handling and luxury.

 

Or imagine if Honda was going to make a full size pick up to compete with the F150 and Silverado, and the Honda full size pick up was front wheel drive, with all wheel drive optional, 3.5 V6 and a turbo V6 option.  Would the truck buyers used to V8s and rear drive body on frame want a unibody fwd honda full size truck?  No, it would get laughed out of the segment.

[smk4565]

 

 

 

If you look at most of the luxury all wheel drive systems they send more power to the back than the front.  Audi Quattro is a 50-50 set up, although the R8 sends 85% to the rear wheels.  A VW with all wheel drive sends about 90% power to the front wheels, and will only send more to the back if the wheels slip.

 

BMW is a 40/60 front to rear split, Mercedes is 45/55 split, except AMG cars are 33/67.  Because you want to power to the back, steering at the front.  My Mercedes is rear drive, I didn't want 4matic. 

 

As far as Mercedes with all their fwd appliances, they have 3 front drive models and 18 rear drive models.  

They used to have ZERO FWD models and it's real easy to pad your "18" count when you want to include every variant of each main model.

 

12 to 3 if not counting model variants or the vans.  They used to have zero but the world changed, and one of their fwd cars is a compliance car to meet electric car regs.  And the front drive is at the very bottom of the brand.  It isn't on their flagship.

 

The FWD GLA is not electric. In fact only one out of the three FWD MBs are electric so that little excuse does not fly. There are other reasons for them doing so but I understand that you have to come up with whatever excuse you can to justify your favorite make having what you would normally detest from anyone else. BTW, a world a difference between a $50K Lincoln Continental and $100K+ (in most trims) S-Class that it DOES NOT COMPETE WITH. Don't why everything from everyone else has to measure to an S-Class, even when said car does not compete with it.

 

Did you read my post?  I said "one of their fwd cars is a compliance car to electric requirements."  The B-class is only sold in like 10 states even.  The CLA gets 38 mpg, they need it for CAFE, and it is a 208 hp sub-compact car, to which you don't really need rwd for that sort of car.  And the Acura, Volvo, Golf GTI crowd they are competing with probably prefer fwd.  I personally don't like the CLA or GLA, but them sitting on the lot doesn't offend me.  I don't think people dislike a Corvette because Chevy also makes the Spark.  If you like the Corvette, you aren't going to care what other cars are sold on the same lot.

 

I know the Continental doesn't compete with the 2016 S-class.  I am saying the Continental is behind where the S-class was 13 years ago.

[ccap41]

"To which you don't really need rwd for that sort of car"

That guys, is how you move goal posts. GOOOOAAALLLLL!!!

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

Remember, this is little more than an MKS update/replacement.  And an interim one at that. From that perspective, it appears to be an excellent one.

Using the name alone was brilliant.

 

But again, pricing will be key.

Current MKS MSRP is $38,850.  A starting price of about $44,850 seems like a good base point for this new MKS, errr, I mean Continental.  That will get you a 305hp V6 and a competitive feature set.  CT6 starts at $53,495 with an I4.  Another $2K is needed to get you the V6 and  I know you can build it to over $91K with the top trim, interior, engine, etc. So I think the Continental should peak at about $80K, and I think they will be pretty closely matched in performance and features at their respective price.  I also think the Continental will easily outsell it as well. For what that's worth, which for Lincoln, is plenty.

 

The advantage the CT6 will have is lower weight, and that's how it will get away with a 4-cylinder. A Continental is going to be near or over 4,000 in FWD form, the heaviest Fusion at 3600lbs is the same weight as the base CT6.   With Cadillac running an 8-speed auto, there is a good chance that the 4-cylinder CT6 will end up faster (slightly) in a 0-60 than a V6 FWD Continental.  

 

Things we already know:

2015 CTS 2.0T AWD 0-60 = 5.8 seconds.

2010 MKS Ecoboost AWD 0-60 = 5.8 seconds

 

The base CT6 is lighter than the CTS and is RWD rather than AWD so expect it to be slightly faster.

A new Continental is almost certainly going to be heavier than the outgoing MKS, so a 305 HP non-turbo V6 will be slower than a MKS Ecoboost.

 

Thus, 4-cylinder CT6 will be faster than V6 FWD Continental.  Could that change with new transmission other than the 6-speed on the Lincoln? Maybe, but it's still going to be very close due to weight differences. 

 

 

 

Not always about a few 1/10ths in acceleration, but also perception.  People will be paying ~$60K for an I4 luxury sedan.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

Maybe they should make the Corvette, Camaro and Mustang FWD as well, since it is so good.  And since V8s aren't needed anymore, make the 3.0TT V6 as the top engine in the Mustang.  

 

I wonder what would happen to Mustang sales if it was FWD/AWD with no V8 option?  Hmmmmm

 

Don't be daft... different types of cars.  

 

Why should a buyer be asked to pay $60k or whatever the Continental will cost for a chassis and drivetrain inferior to a $30k Mustang? 

This is why Volvo S80, Lincoln sedans, Acura RLX, don't sell, why DeVille/DTS sales tanked into cancellation of the product.  People don't want to spend big bucks for a car with garden variety front drive, 6-speed, transverse engine, etc.

 

If I were going to pay $60k or more for a car, I'd want performance, handling and luxury.

 

Or imagine if Honda was going to make a full size pick up to compete with the F150 and Silverado, and the Honda full size pick up was front wheel drive, with all wheel drive optional, 3.5 V6 and a turbo V6 option.  Would the truck buyers used to V8s and rear drive body on frame want a unibody fwd honda full size truck?  No, it would get laughed out of the segment.

 

 

The Continental is sporting one of the most advanced AWD systems available today. It has full torque vectoring and they can even overspeed the rear wheels (make them turn ever so slightly faster than the fronts) to give even more of the RWD feel.  It is also is one of the fastest reacting AWD systems out there because all wheels are always at least partially "on". 

 

But don't take my word for it. You can read more about it at Automobile Magazine.

 

 

Twinster can immediately send torque to the rear without spinning the front wheels.

“It has a pre-emptive torque control, just like a normal on-demand system,” Fritz said. “There is no center differential so we tend to avoid talking about torque splits, because it confuses people when they’re thinking about a differential. Our active, on-demand system can send up to 100 percent of the available torque to the rear axle. Once it hits the rear axle, it can send up to 100 percent of that torque to individual left or right sides. If you were [in a scenario where] the front wheels were losing traction, then 100 percent of the torque to drive the car is going to the rear axle.”

 

 

So how do you get to "inferior power train" via "worlds most advanced AWD system"? 

 

Furthermore, if "pure" RWD were so important to sales, the Eqqus would have outsold the A8.  It didn't. 

The CTS would have outsold the XTS.  It didn't.

The Genesis Sedan would have outsold the XTS.  It didn't

The Kia K900 would have outsold the XTS.  Not even 1/15th of XTS sales. Even MKS out sold the K900 by a lot....   Even the old, nearly put to sleep Volvo S80 beat the K900 by 500 units last year.

 

The point is, in this particular segment, the "how" doesn't matter as much, and certainly no where near the weight you put on the orientation of the engine. 

 

If GM added AWD to the Camaro and Ford added AWD to the Mustang, they'd probably see a 50% increase in sales. All the husbands who were told they can't buy a sports car that is RWD would suddenly come out of the woodwork. 

 

The drive train simply has to be fit for purpose and there is nothing about the Continental drive train that is holding the car back from its intended purpose. 

[smk4565]

"To which you don't really need rwd for that sort of car"

That guys, is how you move goal posts. GOOOOAAALLLLL!!!

Rear drive is preferred, and as I said in the Cadillac thread, when the sub-ATS car arrives I did say it should have better ride, handling and performance than a CLA.  Barring Cadillac putting like a 1.4 liter turbo and 6-speed auto or something stupid in it. 

 

The CLA's current competition is the A3, Acura ILX, Volvo S40, maybe Golf GTI and the GLA competes with Q3 and X1.  So those are all front drivers.  I don't like the CLA, but it has the drivetrain common to the segment.

 

The Continental wants to compete with rear drive Lexus, Cadillacs, Mercedes, Infiniti, Genesis, Kia K900, etc.  They are all rear drive.  The Acura RLX is the front drive entrant and has miserable sales volume.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

Remember, this is little more than an MKS update/replacement.  And an interim one at that. From that perspective, it appears to be an excellent one.

Using the name alone was brilliant.

 

But again, pricing will be key.

Current MKS MSRP is $38,850.  A starting price of about $44,850 seems like a good base point for this new MKS, errr, I mean Continental.  That will get you a 305hp V6 and a competitive feature set.  CT6 starts at $53,495 with an I4.  Another $2K is needed to get you the V6 and  I know you can build it to over $91K with the top trim, interior, engine, etc. So I think the Continental should peak at about $80K, and I think they will be pretty closely matched in performance and features at their respective price.  I also think the Continental will easily outsell it as well. For what that's worth, which for Lincoln, is plenty.

 

The advantage the CT6 will have is lower weight, and that's how it will get away with a 4-cylinder. A Continental is going to be near or over 4,000 in FWD form, the heaviest Fusion at 3600lbs is the same weight as the base CT6.   With Cadillac running an 8-speed auto, there is a good chance that the 4-cylinder CT6 will end up faster (slightly) in a 0-60 than a V6 FWD Continental.  

 

Things we already know:

2015 CTS 2.0T AWD 0-60 = 5.8 seconds.

2010 MKS Ecoboost AWD 0-60 = 5.8 seconds

 

The base CT6 is lighter than the CTS and is RWD rather than AWD so expect it to be slightly faster.

A new Continental is almost certainly going to be heavier than the outgoing MKS, so a 305 HP non-turbo V6 will be slower than a MKS Ecoboost.

 

Thus, 4-cylinder CT6 will be faster than V6 FWD Continental.  Could that change with new transmission other than the 6-speed on the Lincoln? Maybe, but it's still going to be very close due to weight differences. 

 

 

 

Not always about a few 1/10ths in acceleration, but also perception.  People will be paying ~$60K for an I4 luxury sedan.

 

 

People already do. 

 

 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

 

"To which you don't really need rwd for that sort of car"

That guys, is how you move goal posts. GOOOOAAALLLLL!!!

Rear drive is preferred, and as I said in the Cadillac thread, when the sub-ATS car arrives I did say it should have better ride, handling and performance than a CLA.  Barring Cadillac putting like a 1.4 liter turbo and 6-speed auto or something stupid in it. 

 

The CLA's current competition is the A3, Acura ILX, Volvo S40, maybe Golf GTI and the GLA competes with Q3 and X1.  So those are all front drivers.  I don't like the CLA, but it has the drivetrain common to the segment.

 

The Continental wants to compete with rear drive Lexus, Cadillacs, Mercedes, Infiniti, Genesis, Kia K900, etc.  They are all rear drive.  The Acura RLX is the front drive entrant and has miserable sales volume.

 

 

Can you ever ever ever please consider that something other than your particular pet peeve is the reason for poor sales of a particular vehicle?   I tested the RLX four months ago and its interior is atrociously cheap and poorly made.  Honda would/should be embarrassed at that interior in an Accord much less the top Acura.  It doesn't matter if that car is powered by puppydog smiles and has the best handling in the world, the interior quality is grossly outclassed by everything in the segment including the MKS (which I have no love for either)

[smk4565]

Very true on the RLX interior.  It is what you'd expect in a Maxima or Azera level car for low to mid 30s.  It is not a very good looking car on the outside either.

Edited January 17, 2016 by smk4565

[Drew Dowdell]

Very true on the RLX interior.  It is what you'd expect in a Maxima or Azera level car for low to mid 30s.  It is not a very good looking car on the outside either.

 

 

Actually, the new Maxima interior is fantastically built, even if some of the ergonomics are weird... it is good looking and well done.

 

Edit: I think even the top end Chrysler 200C does a better job than the RLX on interior material and build quality. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

 

Remember, this is little more than an MKS update/replacement.  And an interim one at that. From that perspective, it appears to be an excellent one.

Using the name alone was brilliant.

 

But again, pricing will be key.

Current MKS MSRP is $38,850.  A starting price of about $44,850 seems like a good base point for this new MKS, errr, I mean Continental.  That will get you a 305hp V6 and a competitive feature set.  CT6 starts at $53,495 with an I4.  Another $2K is needed to get you the V6 and  I know you can build it to over $91K with the top trim, interior, engine, etc. So I think the Continental should peak at about $80K, and I think they will be pretty closely matched in performance and features at their respective price.  I also think the Continental will easily outsell it as well. For what that's worth, which for Lincoln, is plenty.

 

The advantage the CT6 will have is lower weight, and that's how it will get away with a 4-cylinder. A Continental is going to be near or over 4,000 in FWD form, the heaviest Fusion at 3600lbs is the same weight as the base CT6.   With Cadillac running an 8-speed auto, there is a good chance that the 4-cylinder CT6 will end up faster (slightly) in a 0-60 than a V6 FWD Continental.  

 

Things we already know:

2015 CTS 2.0T AWD 0-60 = 5.8 seconds.

2010 MKS Ecoboost AWD 0-60 = 5.8 seconds

 

The base CT6 is lighter than the CTS and is RWD rather than AWD so expect it to be slightly faster.

A new Continental is almost certainly going to be heavier than the outgoing MKS, so a 305 HP non-turbo V6 will be slower than a MKS Ecoboost.

 

Thus, 4-cylinder CT6 will be faster than V6 FWD Continental.  Could that change with new transmission other than the 6-speed on the Lincoln? Maybe, but it's still going to be very close due to weight differences. 

 

 

 

Not always about a few 1/10ths in acceleration, but also perception.  People will be paying ~$60K for an I4 luxury sedan.

 

 

People already do. 

 

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Lexus IS250.png

 

 

 

So you are saying that the I4 CT6 has an advantage over the V6 base conti, even with it's $10K premium price.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

 

 

Remember, this is little more than an MKS update/replacement.  And an interim one at that. From that perspective, it appears to be an excellent one.

Using the name alone was brilliant.

 

But again, pricing will be key.

Current MKS MSRP is $38,850.  A starting price of about $44,850 seems like a good base point for this new MKS, errr, I mean Continental.  That will get you a 305hp V6 and a competitive feature set.  CT6 starts at $53,495 with an I4.  Another $2K is needed to get you the V6 and  I know you can build it to over $91K with the top trim, interior, engine, etc. So I think the Continental should peak at about $80K, and I think they will be pretty closely matched in performance and features at their respective price.  I also think the Continental will easily outsell it as well. For what that's worth, which for Lincoln, is plenty.

 

The advantage the CT6 will have is lower weight, and that's how it will get away with a 4-cylinder. A Continental is going to be near or over 4,000 in FWD form, the heaviest Fusion at 3600lbs is the same weight as the base CT6.   With Cadillac running an 8-speed auto, there is a good chance that the 4-cylinder CT6 will end up faster (slightly) in a 0-60 than a V6 FWD Continental.  

 

Things we already know:

2015 CTS 2.0T AWD 0-60 = 5.8 seconds.

2010 MKS Ecoboost AWD 0-60 = 5.8 seconds

 

The base CT6 is lighter than the CTS and is RWD rather than AWD so expect it to be slightly faster.

A new Continental is almost certainly going to be heavier than the outgoing MKS, so a 305 HP non-turbo V6 will be slower than a MKS Ecoboost.

 

Thus, 4-cylinder CT6 will be faster than V6 FWD Continental.  Could that change with new transmission other than the 6-speed on the Lincoln? Maybe, but it's still going to be very close due to weight differences. 

 

 

 

Not always about a few 1/10ths in acceleration, but also perception.  People will be paying ~$60K for an I4 luxury sedan.

 

 

People already do. 

 

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So you are saying that the I4 CT6 has an advantage over the V6 base conti, even with it's $10K premium price.

 

 

I made no mention of price, nor has Lincoln for that matter.  I simply stated that a 4-cylinder RWD CT6 is likely to be faster to 60 than a V6 FWD Continental and that people already buy $60,000 luxury cars that have 4-cylinder engines, so the CT6 coming with a 4-cylinder isn't going to be a limiting factor.   Don't put words in my mouth.

 

Further more, if the 4-cylinder is a big deal to a buyer, the V6 and AWD come into play for just  $2k more than the base model. That is pretty much the easiest upgrade decision a person has to make. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

^

 

My bad, I was basing my argument on my projected pricing only.

 

This will be a very interesting sales experiment.

[Suaviloquent]

It's not going to be a sales experiment, Lincoln nor Cadillac for that matter can take this segment as a laughing matter.

 

Lincoln is not going to get any easy sales. Many Continental sedan sales will have to be a conquest from XTS or like competition or trying to retain a customer in the fold (which I'm also going to treat as a conquest).

 

There's simply a lot of hustle and bustle in a segment that used to only have 2 to 3 staid products that were de facto leaders.

 

Also what is interesting to see is what will happen if the vehicle is made available to livery services.

 

I think if they do it, they should restrict it to the very best airport taxi fleets or high security government outfitters. 

 

The best case scenario for a fleet-like constant exposure to public appearances w/out the stigma of a recorded fleet sale is to have someone finance/lease (whatever, just acquire the car) and use it for a high-end UBER rideshare income.

[ocnblu]

The Continental is nicer than the XTS.  The XTS body looks high and narrow, and the wheelbase is proportionally too short.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

So you are saying that the I4 CT6 has an advantage over the V6 base conti, even with it's $10K premium price.

 

 

 

My thing is why is price the biggest factor in your mind concerning luxury vehicles? The very idea of buying due to price defeats the idea of luxury altogether. I guess it is to be expected from U tho. The CT6 should be no means be capable of outselling the Continental using your standard.. so U will be happy. I must make it known that if the CT6 beats the Continental.. despite POSSIBLY being $10K more.. and "without a name..." then I will laugh my effin ass off daily and let U kno it.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

 

So you are saying that the I4 CT6 has an advantage over the V6 base conti, even with it's $10K premium price.

 

 

 

My thing is why is price the biggest factor in your mind concerning luxury vehicles? The very idea of buying due to price defeats the idea of luxury altogether. I guess it is to be expected from U tho. The CT6 should be no means be capable of outselling the Continental using your standard.. so U will be happy. I must make it known that if the CT6 beats the Continental.. despite POSSIBLY being $10K more.. and "without a name..." then I will laugh my effin ass off daily and let U kno it.

 

 

 

Good for you.

Of course, you could just make it up, as you do the MKT sales remark that you repeat every chance you get and that I call out every time as well.

[Cmicasa the Great]

So you are saying that the I4 CT6 has an advantage over the V6 base conti, even with it's $10K premium price.

My thing is why is price the biggest factor in your mind concerning luxury vehicles? The very idea of buying due to price defeats the idea of luxury altogether. I guess it is to be expected from U tho. The CT6 should be no means be capable of outselling the Continental using your standard.. so U will be happy. I must make it known that if the CT6 beats the Continental.. despite POSSIBLY being $10K more.. and "without a name..." then I will laugh my effin ass off daily and let U kno it.

Good for you.

Of course, you could just make it up, as you do the MKT sales remark that you repeat every chance you get and that I call out every time as well.

Riiiiiight. Any and everything U say about a Lincoln product I take with a grain of salt. Had u said it was gonna flop.. I would have then thought.. This product might succeed

[Drew Dowdell]

guys... it's been nice here lately.

[surreal1272]

 

 

Maybe they should make the Corvette, Camaro and Mustang FWD as well, since it is so good.  And since V8s aren't needed anymore, make the 3.0TT V6 as the top engine in the Mustang.  

 

I wonder what would happen to Mustang sales if it was FWD/AWD with no V8 option?  Hmmmmm

 

Don't be daft... different types of cars.  

 

Why should a buyer be asked to pay $60k or whatever the Continental will cost for a chassis and drivetrain inferior to a $30k Mustang? 

This is why Volvo S80, Lincoln sedans, Acura RLX, don't sell, why DeVille/DTS sales tanked into cancellation of the product.  People don't want to spend big bucks for a car with garden variety front drive, 6-speed, transverse engine, etc.

 

If I were going to pay $60k or more for a car, I'd want performance, handling and luxury.

 

Or imagine if Honda was going to make a full size pick up to compete with the F150 and Silverado, and the Honda full size pick up was front wheel drive, with all wheel drive optional, 3.5 V6 and a turbo V6 option.  Would the truck buyers used to V8s and rear drive body on frame want a unibody fwd honda full size truck?  No, it would get laughed out of the segment.

 

Good lord. What is with your pointless comparisons? Based on your logic, why would anyone buy an accent bones G-Wagon when one can get a just a capable (and far more comfortable) GLK for half the price? See that? That's your logic right now.

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

 

If you look at most of the luxury all wheel drive systems they send more power to the back than the front.  Audi Quattro is a 50-50 set up, although the R8 sends 85% to the rear wheels.  A VW with all wheel drive sends about 90% power to the front wheels, and will only send more to the back if the wheels slip.

 

BMW is a 40/60 front to rear split, Mercedes is 45/55 split, except AMG cars are 33/67.  Because you want to power to the back, steering at the front.  My Mercedes is rear drive, I didn't want 4matic. 

 

As far as Mercedes with all their fwd appliances, they have 3 front drive models and 18 rear drive models.  

They used to have ZERO FWD models and it's real easy to pad your "18" count when you want to include every variant of each main model.

 

12 to 3 if not counting model variants or the vans.  They used to have zero but the world changed, and one of their fwd cars is a compliance car to meet electric car regs.  And the front drive is at the very bottom of the brand.  It isn't on their flagship.

 

The FWD GLA is not electric. In fact only one out of the three FWD MBs are electric so that little excuse does not fly. There are other reasons for them doing so but I understand that you have to come up with whatever excuse you can to justify your favorite make having what you would normally detest from anyone else. BTW, a world a difference between a $50K Lincoln Continental and $100K+ (in most trims) S-Class that it DOES NOT COMPETE WITH. Don't why everything from everyone else has to measure to an S-Class, even when said car does not compete with it.

 

Did you read my post?  I said "one of their fwd cars is a compliance car to electric requirements."  The B-class is only sold in like 10 states even.  The CLA gets 38 mpg, they need it for CAFE, and it is a 208 hp sub-compact car, to which you don't really need rwd for that sort of car.  And the Acura, Volvo, Golf GTI crowd they are competing with probably prefer fwd.  I personally don't like the CLA or GLA, but them sitting on the lot doesn't offend me.  I don't think people dislike a Corvette because Chevy also makes the Spark.  If you like the Corvette, you aren't going to care what other cars are sold on the same lot.

 

I know the Continental doesn't compete with the 2016 S-class.  I am saying the Continental is behind where the S-class was 13 years ago.

 

And I reiterated that because mentioning that it is electric has NO bearing on FWD application of the other two FWD models that are not electric. It's those endless excuses that you grant for Mercedes that you don't give for anyone else that is the problem with you (as well as your constant goal post moving.

 

Again, if you know the Conti does not compete with the S Class, then why bring it up from any time period? It makes no sense and it's just another shameless attempt on your part to dog anything that is not Mercedes (or even German for that matter).

[Robert Hall]

Whilst perusing the latest issue of Collectible Automobile magazine today, I noticed a detail on the early 50s Packard that reminds me of the new Continental--the door handles are mounted up high on the window sills, just like the new Continental...

[balthazar]

^ I do like that feature on the Packards AND the Continental.

Cars in general need some cleaning up; too many panel seams & creases & rain gutters & giant license plate inserts, etc.