ReVolting Development

[ocnblu]

[smk4565]

The back looks like a Civic.  And $40k is still too much for a car that after EV range is no better than a Fusion or Sonata or Camry hybrid, which are also larger cars.  Couldn't they just replace that 350 lb engine with 350 lbs of batteries and make it a pure EV?  Then make a plug-in Malibu?  I get what they are going for, it is just too much money for what is basically a plug-in hybrid Chevy Cruze.  The cost is still too high.

Edited December 25, 2015 by smk4565

[Drew Dowdell]

The key to the Volt that you can't seem to see is that many people with commutes shorter than the Volt's EV range will only need to fill up their car with gasoline every 3 to 4 months (the Volt forums are littered with these people).  Yet at the same time, it still has as unlimited a range as any gasoline powered vehicle, so it addresses the range issue that Ocn always brings up. 

 

During my trips in the old Volt, I did far better than the advertised average, even on a nearly depleted battery, I was doing over 70 mpg between here and Breezewood. 

[ocnblu]

This is how vehicular electrification is done when professionals get involved.  When bitching about price, remember this is the Premier model, plus you're getting a tax credit.

[Suaviloquent]

It's the best product of its kind for its intended purpose, that is to be an EREV. 

 

But low gas prices, and 13 year low (or something like that) for natural gas prices, as well as global wobble which makes using cars all the time in winter less necessary for some...

 

Makes rationalizing the purchase kinda a decision that needs to be absolutely based on statistical evidence of performance and calculations of projected running costs.

 

Or could avoid rational justifications and just get it anyways, which is great. I want this car to do well in sales. It's an honest approach.

 

But even the Volt will become obsolete. Heck by 2050 - it might not even exist. 

[Drew Dowdell]

I like the idea of using fewer fossil fuels. I'm interested in the Volt for that reason... plus I have a wind energy supplier for my house electric.

[Suaviloquent]

I like the idea of using fewer fossil fuels. I'm interested in the Volt for that reason... plus I have a wind energy supplier for my house electric.

 

Which is a noble cause in its own right.

 

And cleaner air tho. Especially for cyclists because we breath the $hit that comes out of tailpipes.

 

Well I don't like the exterior as much as I thought I would, but a Canadian (good guy too! hint: finger lickin' chicken little) reviewer said the dashboard was made of peanut butter. So I became jelly that he was driving it.

[G. David Felt]

$7500 credit baby, so then $32,500 purchase price.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

I like the idea of using fewer fossil fuels. I'm interested in the Volt for that reason... plus I have a wind energy supplier for my house electric.

 

Which is a noble cause in its own right.

 

And cleaner air tho. Especially for cyclists because we breath the $hit that comes out of tailpipes.

 

Well I don't like the exterior as much as I thought I would, but a Canadian (good guy too! hint: finger lickin' chicken little) reviewer said the dashboard was made of peanut butter. So I became jelly that he was driving it.

 

 

We frequently have air quality issues in my city due to the geography here. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

$7500 credit baby, so then $32,500 purchase price.

 

 

Actually, purchase price remains same and taxes and interest borrowed are calculated on that same price.

The credit comes later.

[regfootball]

go to gm-volt.com

 

you don't buy a volt.  you lease it, to protect yourself.  One possible exception, you can buy a 14 or 15 new volt very well discounted.  The new 16's, base models with all available tax credits aren't too bad either.  But turning in a lease that had a 25k residual and offering the lease company like 16k for it, and them possibly taking you up on it, really in my mind underscores that to lease one is probably a better idea while this technology is still rapidly evolving.

 

Aside from the 'how can i get into one' the car itself is class by itself.  The only thing I wish Chevy would do now is get plug in miles up to 100 at least or 150.  More as a convenience than anything.  The other thing most folks should know too.  If you get one, you'll prob really want the 240v charger, and getting that wired up at your house is not cheap either.

 

The electric drive experience, you'll get hooked on it, and won't want to run on gas hardly ever since you drive one.  

 

A friend with first gen volt said on family trips 200+ miles and 4 people can get 45 mpg.....

 

I wish the volt were a sedan, and i wish there were a larger volt....

Edited December 26, 2015 by regfootball

[smk4565]

The key to the Volt that you can't seem to see is that many people with commutes shorter than the Volt's EV range will only need to fill up their car with gasoline every 3 to 4 months (the Volt forums are littered with these people).  Yet at the same time, it still has as unlimited a range as any gasoline powered vehicle, so it addresses the range issue that Ocn always brings up. 

 

During my trips in the old Volt, I did far better than the advertised average, even on a nearly depleted battery, I was doing over 70 mpg between here and Breezewood. 

So if 50 miles of electric driving means buying gas 4 times a year.   Couldn't a 150 mile range mean never needing gas?  If I had a short commute, which I actually do, I would rather have a pure electric car and never need gas.   If the goal is zero emissions, no trips to the gas station, then a pure EV is the end game.

[regfootball]

You won't ever get 300 mile range.  Or 500 mile range.  Lots of folks don't want to refill the tank, so to speak, so often.

 

When i travel to see my mom, she's 300 miles away.  I can get there without a refill.  I do have to stop to pee.  Gas stations don't have electric chargers where you can fill your car in five minutes, so you still need gas range extender.  It will continue to be as such for a long time...many years.  If i could, though, on a trip like that, run 150 miles on electric instead of 50 miles, it makes the drive experience that much better.

 

Likewise, if i have 150 mile range now for driving to work, I don't need to plug in every night. Again, convenience..

 

a-you still need the gas range extender to make it complete road worthy vehicle

b-adding whatever range you can increases the user convenience and electric only experience.

 

Its like your cellphone.......you can get by with an adequate battery but people like it when they have to hook it up to their charger less and less.

Edited December 26, 2015 by regfootball

[ocnblu]

I like the idea of using fewer fossil fuels. I'm interested in the Volt for that reason... plus I have a wind energy supplier for my house electric.

You're hooked up to the local Taco Bell?  Lots of wind propellant coming out of there, *whew*

[El Kabong]

No lack of natural gas either

[surreal1272]

The back looks like a Civic.  And $40k is still too much for a car that after EV range is no better than a Fusion or Sonata or Camry hybrid, which are also larger cars.  Couldn't they just replace that 350 lb engine with 350 lbs of batteries and make it a pure EV?  Then make a plug-in Malibu?  I get what they are going for, it is just too much money for what is basically a plug-in hybrid Chevy Cruze.  The cost is still too high.

 

 

The key to the Volt that you can't seem to see is that many people with commutes shorter than the Volt's EV range will only need to fill up their car with gasoline every 3 to 4 months (the Volt forums are littered with these people).  Yet at the same time, it still has as unlimited a range as any gasoline powered vehicle, so it addresses the range issue that Ocn always brings up. 

 

During my trips in the old Volt, I did far better than the advertised average, even on a nearly depleted battery, I was doing over 70 mpg between here and Breezewood. 

So if 50 miles of electric driving means buying gas 4 times a year.   Couldn't a 150 mile range mean never needing gas?  If I had a short commute, which I actually do, I would rather have a pure electric car and never need gas.   If the goal is zero emissions, no trips to the gas station, then a pure EV is the end game.

 

The Volt is having the best of both worlds. What are you not getting here? 

[Drew Dowdell]

 

The key to the Volt that you can't seem to see is that many people with commutes shorter than the Volt's EV range will only need to fill up their car with gasoline every 3 to 4 months (the Volt forums are littered with these people).  Yet at the same time, it still has as unlimited a range as any gasoline powered vehicle, so it addresses the range issue that Ocn always brings up. 

 

During my trips in the old Volt, I did far better than the advertised average, even on a nearly depleted battery, I was doing over 70 mpg between here and Breezewood. 

So if 50 miles of electric driving means buying gas 4 times a year.   Couldn't a 150 mile range mean never needing gas?  If I had a short commute, which I actually do, I would rather have a pure electric car and never need gas.   If the goal is zero emissions, no trips to the gas station, then a pure EV is the end game.

 

 

The people who only fill up 4 times a year only do so because the gas engine runs from time to time to keep things moving and make sure fresh gasoline cycles through.  Gas starts to go bad after 6 months or so.  Aside from the programming to cycle the engine, there is no technical reason those people couldn't go an entire year without filling up with gas. 

[Drew Dowdell]

 

I like the idea of using fewer fossil fuels. I'm interested in the Volt for that reason... plus I have a wind energy supplier for my house electric.

You're hooked up to the local Taco Bell?  Lots of wind propellant coming out of there, *whew*

 

 

In some parts of the country, you can select which company provides the power to your house.  I selected a wind generation company that is half a cent per KWh cheaper than the default coal generation and I'm guaranteed that fixed price for 2 years. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

PHEV like Volt are truly the best of both worlds, allowing NO extreme limitations like BEV.

But you do pay for both those worlds.  

 

 

Like many I want to do what I can to minimize unnecessary fossil fuel waste as well as reducing carbon footprints,etc. But honestly, considering the massive amounts oil that we know of, let alone have NOT discovered yet....combined with the huge reductions we see in consumption and emissions already as well as the other improvements outside of automotive.....I am not rushing to spend my money to try and save a small bit more.  Science will get us there, and the government scaring everyone into doing something MORE right away, screams of Big Government and Politics.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Wings4Life

[hyperv6]

The Volt is here to do one thing and one thing only develop systems for future models and products. We are seeing it now in the Hybrid Malibu and CT6. In time the prices will drop on the Volt and range will continue to climb.

This was a car that was the egg for the Chicken that everyone wants.

With out the Volt there would be little investment and the prices on the cars like the Malibu Hybrid would be even higher. Like the Saturn program at NASA it had a stated goal of going to the moon but the real goal was to stimulate investment in technology to get there and adapt it to the use of many other products.

I recall years ago the unenlightened used to claim that NASA was wasting money going to the moon. But the pay off came and we have developed so many things that have touched so many lives that and gave America a technology lead that is just now being eclipsed due to the lack of funding of programs like this.

Now China and Russia are both back in the space race to develop technology. We are quietly getting in till the next election and I expect things will take off again.

[smk4565]

If you can go all year without putting gas in, why not just buy a Nissan Leaf or BMW i3?  And then rent a gasoline powered car the 1 time a year you have to drive more than 100 miles in a day.  The downside is these electrics take a while to charge, but there are a probably a million times more power outlets than gas stations in this country.

[Drew Dowdell]

If you can go all year without putting gas in, why not just buy a Nissan Leaf or BMW i3?  And then rent a gasoline powered car the 1 time a year you have to drive more than 100 miles in a day.  The downside is these electrics take a while to charge, but there are a probably a million times more power outlets than gas stations in this country.

 

Flexibility.

[surreal1272]

 

If you can go all year without putting gas in, why not just buy a Nissan Leaf or BMW i3?  And then rent a gasoline powered car the 1 time a year you have to drive more than 100 miles in a day.  The downside is these electrics take a while to charge, but there are a probably a million times more power outlets than gas stations in this country.

 

Flexibility.

 

Exactly. It amazes me how some here do not get that when they try to pick the Volt apart. I would have one in a heartbeat for my daily commute. Would never need gas to and from work but if I have to go somewhere else after work that requires the distance that gas gives me, then that's a bonus for me.

[El Kabong]

The Volt is the best of both worlds. If you have a means to charge it it'll run on electricity for 80-90% of your driving. If you need to go further then that's what the gas engine is for. It even seats five.

[smk4565]

If you are going to burn gas anyway, you can buy a Cruze and $15,000 in gas for the price of a Volt. The economics just don't make sense.

I don't drive any long distances, maybe once in a blue moon and only put about 8,000 miles a year on my car. That is why I bought a V8, with limited driving I don't care if I get 16.5 mpg.

I get they want to appeal to electric car buyers with range anxiety, but until electric cars have 300 mile range at a $30k price they don't make a lot of sense.

[Suaviloquent]

Yup, and this is why governments around the world are driving a wedge in the free market.

 

But being the most credible in a field of cars that are still purchased for reasons that are not grounded in overall savings right up front, is worth something.

[El Kabong]

If you are going to burn gas anyway, you can buy a Cruze and $15,000 in gas for the price of a Volt. The economics just don't make sense.

I don't drive any long distances, maybe once in a blue moon and only put about 8,000 miles a year on my car. That is why I bought a V8, with limited driving I don't care if I get 16.5 mpg.

I get they want to appeal to electric car buyers with range anxiety, but until electric cars have 300 mile range at a $30k price they don't make a lot of sense.

I do not understand how you can attack paying a premium for a desirable thing and then go to the wall for German luxury stuff. They are two sides of the same coin.

[G. David Felt]

 

If you are going to burn gas anyway, you can buy a Cruze and $15,000 in gas for the price of a Volt. The economics just don't make sense.

I don't drive any long distances, maybe once in a blue moon and only put about 8,000 miles a year on my car. That is why I bought a V8, with limited driving I don't care if I get 16.5 mpg.

I get they want to appeal to electric car buyers with range anxiety, but until electric cars have 300 mile range at a $30k price they don't make a lot of sense.

I do not understand how you can attack paying a premium for a desirable thing and then go to the wall for German luxury stuff. They are two sides of the same coin.

 

 

SMK justifies it by having a short commute so burning less premium fuel as he says and renting a regular auto for road trips.

 

Over all, I doubt SMK has even driven an electric auto and golf carts do not count. If you drive an electric, you can feel, see the desire in the instant 100% torque.

 

Batteries is what is holding back this change over, but with the new 450 Amp Lithium Ion batteries, getting long range should become a thing of the past.

[ccap41]

I think this is probably the perfect vehicle for 75% of the people on the roads. Not many people are carrying more than 4 people and traveling over 40 miles each way on a daily basis. I'd absolutely love to have something like this for daily commuting and just everyday stuff and then buy a cheap V8 toy car to make up for my fuel savings!  A Volt on one side of the garage and a Camaro ZL1 on the other, yes please. 

 

I could deal with a garage like this:

 

 

I think I'd rather have silver...

Edited December 28, 2015 by ccap41

[G. David Felt]

 

The key to the Volt that you can't seem to see is that many people with commutes shorter than the Volt's EV range will only need to fill up their car with gasoline every 3 to 4 months (the Volt forums are littered with these people).  Yet at the same time, it still has as unlimited a range as any gasoline powered vehicle, so it addresses the range issue that Ocn always brings up. 

 

During my trips in the old Volt, I did far better than the advertised average, even on a nearly depleted battery, I was doing over 70 mpg between here and Breezewood. 

So if 50 miles of electric driving means buying gas 4 times a year.   Couldn't a 150 mile range mean never needing gas?  If I had a short commute, which I actually do, I would rather have a pure electric car and never need gas.   If the goal is zero emissions, no trips to the gas station, then a pure EV is the end game.

 

 

As to why in 2016 you will be able to buy the BOLT!

 

[ccap41]

Ps(to my above post) I did't mean to insinuate a ZL1 was a cheap car. It was kind of two different thoughts that got blended. Originally I was thinking practical like a cheap 99-04 GT or LT1 Camaro then my brain switched to newer cars and well.. ZL1. 580hp. If I have a Chevy on one side of the garage, I'd like one on the other as well. I'm weird like that though. 

Edited December 28, 2015 by ccap41

[G. David Felt]

So for me, I would be happy with the following if I only could have 2 auto's.

 

Road Trips and personal time driving, Escalade ESV Platinum V Edition

 

 

Commuter Auto Chevy BOLT

 

[ccap41]

 

If you can go all year without putting gas in, why not just buy a Nissan Leaf or BMW i3?  And then rent a gasoline powered car the 1 time a year you have to drive more than 100 miles in a day.  The downside is these electrics take a while to charge, but there are a probably a million times more power outlets than gas stations in this country.

 

Flexibility.

 

Boom. 

 

I feel like somebody is trying to pick it apart because it isn't full electric or pricey. Yes, full electric would keep running costs down but as in any Tesla thread probably ever some up, able to go where ever you want whenever you want. This is a perfect blend of both, IMO. 

[Suaviloquent]

Actually SMK is correct in one respect. By the time the Volt gets a 150-200 mile range before the range extender comes in... electric vehicles will be ready to crush any sort of hybrid amalgamation in MPGe with consistent and livable charging times, and a decent enough infrastructure.

 

I'm guessing the Volt has two more product generations, so perhaps 10 more years before the pendulum will swing permanently to electrics.

 

After that, the Bolt will become probably the better vehicle overall in GM's stable.

 

We have to remember, this partial electrification approach was always meant to be a stopgap. Toyota can hold on to Hybrid Synergy Drive as long as they want, but even they should realize that the largest markets for their signature Prius will ban the car effective 2050.

 

And hyper if we are going to be deterministic we should realize that using a technology that has high cultural visibility follows the same fallacies of innovation-centric histories of technology.

 

If we're technologically determined, one could say that the Volt is an answer to the Prius. But we all know it's not. It's the answer to a combination of a drive to compete in a similar market, and socio-political climate where automakers were increasingly pressured to deliver more efficient vehicles - whether they are iterative improvements or new inventions. The Volt was there to offset the immense burden of the future CAFE requirements because of a very large truck portfolio.

 

Thus, future electric vehicles will not exist because of the Volt or anything else. They will exist because in ever increasing numbers, some people and many lawmakers are intent on reducing emissions. Some jurisdictions have made it clear their desire to outright ban ICE passenger vehicles. 

 

Yup, I like the Volt. But it's not paving the way for others, it's a just a wave that has reached the shore. Waves have preceded it, and waves will follow. 

[smk4565]

 

 

If you are going to burn gas anyway, you can buy a Cruze and $15,000 in gas for the price of a Volt. The economics just don't make sense.

I don't drive any long distances, maybe once in a blue moon and only put about 8,000 miles a year on my car. That is why I bought a V8, with limited driving I don't care if I get 16.5 mpg.

I get they want to appeal to electric car buyers with range anxiety, but until electric cars have 300 mile range at a $30k price they don't make a lot of sense.

I do not understand how you can attack paying a premium for a desirable thing and then go to the wall for German luxury stuff. They are two sides of the same coin.

 

 

SMK justifies it by having a short commute so burning less premium fuel as he says and renting a regular auto for road trips.

 

Over all, I doubt SMK has even driven an electric auto and golf carts do not count. If you drive an electric, you can feel, see the desire in the instant 100% torque.

 

Batteries is what is holding back this change over, but with the new 450 Amp Lithium Ion batteries, getting long range should become a thing of the past.

 

I actually drove the BMW i3 once, only briefly, but the instant torque is nice and you can stop without using the brakes.  A different kind of driving, it does have benefits, but it wasn't convincing enough to make me leave gasoline.    A Tesla may be another story, when you have range and 500 or more hp.  I think what Tesla has achieved is spectacular, and their car can beat an M5 or CTS-V at slightly more price.  

 

I think if the Bolt comes with a 150-200 mile range, same horsepower and acceleration of a Volt and similar price, that would be the car to buy, if you were looking for a green vehicle or gasoline alternative.  

[ocnblu]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.  The only Bolt we've seen so far is silver, in the spy photos.

[G. David Felt]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.  The only Bolt we've seen so far is silver, in the spy photos.

 

Always got to be the Debbie Downer!

 

Lets start off 2016 with the positive exciting attitude that new things will drive auto's that will excite us and in some ways this means electrification of the power train.

 

Wishing you an awesome New Years Eve and New Year ocnblu!

[ocnblu]

Well Mr. dfelt you sawr the spy shots.  The Bolt was silver, not green.