Continental Uncovered

[ccap41]

So if we were to being this back to post one: do you think that this Continental is well-engineered? Because I see scant evidence that it is, especially compared with what Cadillac and Hyundai have been doing recently.

What kind of information do you have on this car to say it is or is not "well-engineered"? 

Edited December 23, 2015 by ccap41

[Drew Dowdell]

So if we were to being this back to post one: do you think that this Continental is well-engineered? Because I see scant evidence that it is, especially compared with what Cadillac and Hyundai have been doing recently.

 

I think you're blending definitions.  "well engineered" isn't a fixed definition.   I think, from what you've been saying in this thread, that you equate "well engineered" with "Ring burner"... some high end performance machine that will keep up with the joneses at Nurbergring.  While it's currently a bit out of date, the Lexus LS is very well engineered... and would never be considered a "ring burner".  It's a big, posh, well engineered luxury sedan. 

 

That said, I don't think there is sufficient evidence in either direction on the engineering level of the Continental.  There simply isn't enough information to make an assessment. 

 

As for Hyundai, I don't consider them to be well engineered for their stated goals.  They want to take on the best from Germany and Cadillac, and I don't think they've done that.    The Genesis leaves me with the feeling that some executive took his favorite cars from competing brands, made a check list, and told his engineers to match that.  "Must have RWD." "Must have V8"

[Suaviloquent]

For the wealthy Chinese aristocrat, if it delivers an S-Class equivalent backseat, it's excellently engineered.

[G. David Felt]

Koreans will buy it no matter how well or not it is engineered, they support their country just like Americans should support their country. Sadly, I see so many conservatives and liberals thump the drum for America but are the first to go out and support other countries with their product purchases. What ever happened to making sure America was strong first with American products, jobs for your fellow American.

[Suaviloquent]

Koreans will buy it no matter how well or not it is engineered, they support their country just like Americans should support their country. Sadly, I see so many conservatives and liberals thump the drum for America but are the first to go out and support other countries with their product purchases. What ever happened to making sure America was strong first with American products, jobs for your fellow American.

 

It's not as though they're bad cars though.

 

I would easily recommend someone to buy a Genesis 90 if they don't give a damn about driving enthusiasm and want all the goodies for a fair price. 10 year power-train warranty most likely... and finally a luxury badge.

 

And the interior though. That's spectacular for the price IMO. And I love good looks. A lickable interior it definitely is.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

Koreans will buy it no matter how well or not it is engineered, they support their country just like Americans should support their country. Sadly, I see so many conservatives and liberals thump the drum for America but are the first to go out and support other countries with their product purchases. What ever happened to making sure America was strong first with American products, jobs for your fellow American.

 

It's not as though they're bad cars though.

 

I would easily recommend someone to buy a Genesis 90 if they don't give a damn about driving enthusiasm and want all the goodies for a fair price. 10 year power-train warranty most likely... and finally a luxury badge.

 

And the interior though. That's spectacular for the price IMO. And I love good looks. A lickable interior it definitely is.

 

 

Exactly... they're not bad cars... and you get a lot of car for your money.  The Kia K900 would suit me for the price because I really don't care about handling... I care about comfort and effortless acceleration.  But if you're looking for the upper eschelons of engineering, Hyundai/Kia isn't it... I hold no illusions that the K900 is a better engineered car than the LS or A8 or CT6.... not even in the same league. 

[Suaviloquent]

But is the engineering befitting of the price?

 

That is the question. I don't really know an answer to it, because it is subjective to each person.

 

But in my opinion, what you do miss out on, you make up for more than nicely in savings on price.

 

My personal choice for $80k above (CDN Funds) - I'd get a Shelby GT350R.

[Drew Dowdell]

But is the engineering befitting of the price?

 

That is the question. I don't really know an answer to it, because it is subjective to each person.

 

But in my opinion, what you do miss out on, you make up for more than nicely in savings on price.

 

My personal choice for $80k above (CDN Funds) - I'd get a Shelby GT350R.

 

I would call it... "sufficient", but no, it is not ground breaking in any way.

 

The top level K900 is $68,800 US the way I'd want it, but I wouldn't consider it any better engineered than a Chrysler 300.  So for me, I'd go with the 300C Platinum V8 with every option box checked and save $20k or more in the process. The trade off being the K900 has the nicer interior but the 300 has a more controlled, yet still comfortable ride.

[G. David Felt]

 

But is the engineering befitting of the price?

 

That is the question. I don't really know an answer to it, because it is subjective to each person.

 

But in my opinion, what you do miss out on, you make up for more than nicely in savings on price.

 

My personal choice for $80k above (CDN Funds) - I'd get a Shelby GT350R.

 

I would call it... "sufficient", but no, it is not ground breaking in any way.

 

The top level K900 is $68,800 US the way I'd want it, but I wouldn't consider it any better engineered than a Chrysler 300.  So for me, I'd go with the 300C Platinum V8 with every option box checked and save $20k or more in the process. The trade off being the K900 has the nicer interior but the 300 has a more controlled, yet still comfortable ride.

 

 

For the money and for better engineering there are American made products for that price that are superior.

[El Kabong]

Great googaly moogalies.

I'm NOT SAYING A WELL-ENGINEERED CAR IS A TRACK RAT.

...but Drew DID hit the nail on the head for what I would consider a well-engineered car built for comfort with the Lexus. As much as I dislike Toyota, I'll give them props for sparing no expense on the LS sedans.

And with that as our engineering benchmark, even at its elevated price point, I don't think Ford is going to be fooling many with a sliced and diced Fusion platform.

Edited December 24, 2015 by El Kabong

[Suaviloquent]

Great googaly moogalies.

I'm NOT SAYING A WELL-ENGINEERED CAR IS A TRACK RAT.

...but Drew DID hit the nail on the head for what I would consider a well-engineered car built for comfort with the Lexus. As much as I dislike Toyota, I'll give them props for sparing no expense on the LS sedans.

And with that as our engineering benchmark, even at its elevated price point, I don't think Ford is going to be fooling many with a sliced and diced Fusion platform.

 

Well if it's like what a fresh XTS would be - which I perceive as much a luxury product as a SRX or Lexus RX, and that is what Lincolns sells the car as...

 

Wow Lincoln, why would you dilute such a name with infamous notoriety?!

 

Okay, knee-jerk reaction aside...

 

If it's what a stretched Fusion RS with a 2.7 EB would be with a full Lincoln skin and interior and the 3.0TT standard to make up for lardy luxury...it can be fairly decent.

 

It can being the operative words. If it's got the handling chops of the Fusion, and the tuning of the steering rack by whoever made the Fiesta ST (yay Fiesta ST steering in a Lincoln you say? Heresy!!!), it might just be playful.

[cp-the-nerd]

Koreans will buy it no matter how well or not it is engineered, they support their country just like Americans should support their country. Sadly, I see so many conservatives and liberals thump the drum for America but are the first to go out and support other countries with their product purchases. What ever happened to making sure America was strong first with American products, jobs for your fellow American.

 

f@#kin a, man. f@#kin a.

 

 

Seriously though, I don't know why it's so damn hard to get Americans to buy American cars now. It's been around a decade since they've been selling cars of similar quality to the Japanese automakers, but in our infinite wisdom and anti-bias, we will spend insane amounts of money propping up foreign car companies. You wont find that ANYWHERE else in the world, except maybe China but I don't know that for sure.

 

A Toyota built in the US with domestic parts content STILL benefits Japan at least as much as it does our country.

[El Kabong]

Toyota won over a generation of Americans by offering them superior engineering and quality. Once they realized those folks weren't going away they slacked off on both. Toyota is all about the profits, and if it can make more selling subpar stuff to sheeple than that's all you can expect them to do.

Edited December 24, 2015 by El Kabong

[ccap41]

 

Koreans will buy it no matter how well or not it is engineered, they support their country just like Americans should support their country. Sadly, I see so many conservatives and liberals thump the drum for America but are the first to go out and support other countries with their product purchases. What ever happened to making sure America was strong first with American products, jobs for your fellow American.

 

f@#kin a, man. f@#kin a.

 

 

Seriously though, I don't know why it's so damn hard to get Americans to buy American cars now. It's been around a decade since they've been selling cars of similar quality to the Japanese automakers, but in our infinite wisdom and anti-bias, we will spend insane amounts of money propping up foreign car companies. You wont find that ANYWHERE else in the world, except maybe China but I don't know that for sure.

 

A Toyota built in the US with domestic parts content STILL benefits Japan at least as much as it does our country.

 

Completely agree.. But it's hard to get past a reputation, especially when it's an investment like an automobile. My first year of college back in the fall of 07(holy $h!...) I was in an intro to engineering class and the instructor was an engineer and in the auto field some way or another and he said right then that American autos are as good if not better than a lot of Japanese and Euro cars but people won't give them credit for a long time. It takes Cobalts and Focuses with 300k miles and still purring to get that reputation up and the whole ignition and air bag thing aren't helping the two. Ignorant people still buy on reputation alone. 

[smk4565]

 

Koreans will buy it no matter how well or not it is engineered, they support their country just like Americans should support their country. Sadly, I see so many conservatives and liberals thump the drum for America but are the first to go out and support other countries with their product purchases. What ever happened to making sure America was strong first with American products, jobs for your fellow American.

 

f@#kin a, man. f@#kin a.

 

 

Seriously though, I don't know why it's so damn hard to get Americans to buy American cars now. It's been around a decade since they've been selling cars of similar quality to the Japanese automakers, but in our infinite wisdom and anti-bias, we will spend insane amounts of money propping up foreign car companies. You wont find that ANYWHERE else in the world, except maybe China but I don't know that for sure.

 

A Toyota built in the US with domestic parts content STILL benefits Japan at least as much as it does our country.

 

Because American car companies still priorities trucks and SUVs, and they don't push sedans as a better driving experience or a more luxurious driving experience.   To use Ford as an example, the Escape outsells the Fusion.  People would rather had a C-segment crossover than a D-segment sedan for the same price.  And Ford can make better margins on a $29k Escape than they can on a $29k Fusion so of course they will push the Esacpe.   Have to make the cars better if you want to pull people out of crossovers.  

 

If you want to look at Camry vs Fusion type comparisons, then the Americans still need higher quality and reliability.   Camry has a loyal following, it still wins the consumer reports rigged tests and gets the accolades.  You have to give people a reason to leave a proven commodity like the Camry.  Not easy to do.

[smk4565]

And when the Americans put out a top end sedan like the Continental, it is a front driver on a Fusion platform.  Not exactly world class engineering going on there.  It isn't a serious effort.  If Ford isn't going to take the luxury market seriously, why should buyers take Lincoln seriously?

[balthazar]

Because American car companies still priorities trucks and SUVs, and they don't push sedans as a better driving experience or a more luxurious driving experience.

Mercedes is 56% cars, / 44% trucks.

Deal with it.

[smk4565]

60.6% of Mercedes sales in 2015 are cars, unless you count Sprinter, I only totaled the 188,000 cars out of 308,000 total passenger vehicle units. But Mercedes A/B segment car and crossover cost the same, C-segment car and crossover are the same price, their D/E-segment car and crossover are the same price, etc.   

 

Ford prices an Escape like a Fusion, an Edge like a Taurus, etc.  Honda does the same, an HRV is priced like a Civic, CRV like an Accord, Pilot costs more than Accord.  So of course they want to push the crossover there is more margin on it.  Is there an American car that leads it's segment in sales?  Other than Camaro/Mustang since there isn't really an import alternative, unless you count 370Z and Genesis Coupe.  I guess a Charger or Impala would outsell the Avalon, which is the only non-luxury import close enough to full size.

 

To me the Continental is just something to check a box.  The product planners said Lincoln needs a full size sedan, so they stretched out a Fusion platform and put a turbo on a V6, and brought back the Continental name much like they brought back the Taurus name.  This fills a slot in the show room and they probably don't care if it even sells, because they would rather sell a Lincoln Edge for $50k.  

[surreal1272]

And when the Americans put out a top end sedan like the Continental, it is a front driver on a Fusion platform.  Not exactly world class engineering going on there.  It isn't a serious effort.  If Ford isn't going to take the luxury market seriously, why should buyers take Lincoln seriously?

Huh?? You think the Continental is "top end" as far as America goes? Seriously? No wonder I just can't take you seriously in regards to cars.

[surreal1272]

60.6% of Mercedes sales in 2015 are cars, unless you count Sprinter, I only totaled the 188,000 cars out of 308,000 total passenger vehicle units. But Mercedes A/B segment car and crossover cost the same, C-segment car and crossover are the same price, their D/E-segment car and crossover are the same price, etc.   

 

Ford prices an Escape like a Fusion, an Edge like a Taurus, etc.  Honda does the same, an HRV is priced like a Civic, CRV like an Accord, Pilot costs more than Accord.  So of course they want to push the crossover there is more margin on it.  Is there an American car that leads it's segment in sales?  Other than Camaro/Mustang since there isn't really an import alternative, unless you count 370Z and Genesis Coupe.  I guess a Charger or Impala would outsell the Avalon, which is the only non-luxury import close enough to full size.

 

To me the Continental is just something to check a box.  The product planners said Lincoln needs a full size sedan, so they stretched out a Fusion platform and put a turbo on a V6, and brought back the Continental name much like they brought back the Taurus name.  This fills a slot in the show room and they probably don't care if it even sells, because they would rather sell a Lincoln Edge for $50k.  

Regarding your three paragraphs, wrong, wrong, and time will tell. 

[smk4565]

 

And when the Americans put out a top end sedan like the Continental, it is a front driver on a Fusion platform.  Not exactly world class engineering going on there.  It isn't a serious effort.  If Ford isn't going to take the luxury market seriously, why should buyers take Lincoln seriously?

Huh?? You think the Continental is "top end" as far as America goes? Seriously? No wonder I just can't take you seriously in regards to cars.

 

It is the top Lincoln, thus the top Ford.  I doubt it will be as good as a Cadillac, but "Continental" is the top luxury nameplate in Ford MoCo history.  How many American cars are going to be priced above the Continental?  CT6 and Corvette, and that is probably it.  So the Continental is pretty much near the top for American cars.  I don't think Lincoln is planning a sedan above Continental.

[El Kabong]

They are, around 2020 or so-if they decide to keep developing the D6 platform.

[smk4565]

 

60.6% of Mercedes sales in 2015 are cars, unless you count Sprinter, I only totaled the 188,000 cars out of 308,000 total passenger vehicle units. But Mercedes A/B segment car and crossover cost the same, C-segment car and crossover are the same price, their D/E-segment car and crossover are the same price, etc.   

 

Ford prices an Escape like a Fusion, an Edge like a Taurus, etc.  Honda does the same, an HRV is priced like a Civic, CRV like an Accord, Pilot costs more than Accord.  So of course they want to push the crossover there is more margin on it.  Is there an American car that leads it's segment in sales?  Other than Camaro/Mustang since there isn't really an import alternative, unless you count 370Z and Genesis Coupe.  I guess a Charger or Impala would outsell the Avalon, which is the only non-luxury import close enough to full size.

 

To me the Continental is just something to check a box.  The product planners said Lincoln needs a full size sedan, so they stretched out a Fusion platform and put a turbo on a V6, and brought back the Continental name much like they brought back the Taurus name.  This fills a slot in the show room and they probably don't care if it even sells, because they would rather sell a Lincoln Edge for $50k.  

Regarding your three paragraphs, wrong, wrong, and time will tell. 

 

Mercedes didn't sell 188,000 cars out of 308,000 total units?  The YTD sales chart in the sales section says they did.  

 

CLA    $32,050    GLA     $32,500

C300  $38,950  GLC300 $38,950

E350  $53,100  GLE350  $51,100

CLS   $66,900  GLE coupe $65,100

 

They can't price the sedan and crossover much closer together.  In the case of the C-segment they are identical!

Edited December 25, 2015 by smk4565

[balthazar]

Mercedes didn't sell 188,000 cars out of 308,000 total units?  The YTD sales chart in the sales section says they did.  

Totals thru Nov 2015; 187446 cars, 147282 trucks/SUVs/CUVs. Yes, the Sprinter is included, it's a "mercedes" & reported on same chart, isn't it?

187446 out of 334728 is 56% cars. 

 

MB relies heavily on trucks in the U.S., and HEAVILY on fleets in Europe. It's how they pursue ever higher production goals, their #1 purpose.

[ocnblu]

They are, around 2020 or so-if they decide to keep developing the D6 platform.

Well then, if Lincoln is clarifying that this Continental is only a "stopgap flagship" like GM did with the XTS, then I will back off.  The D6 car must take the Continental name at that point, or be called Town Car.

[G. David Felt]

SMK, not everyone must be small like you to fit in the over rated MB auto's. Many Americans are in dead OBESE! I could even afford to loose some weight and I am sure we all could. Yet at 6'6" tall and now at 280lbs. having been a body builder for most of my life I am not a small person. I DO NOT fit into most auto's and still have the room for family and friends to sit behind me. Many americans also being big still need to fit people into the auto for transportation. 

 

As Such, America loves CUVs / SUVs for the added space and even more for the higher seating position with a better view of the road.

 

If the compact market was not priced where it was and the compacts were all CUVs/SUVs design, you would see even more sales.

 

In regards to Europe, due to the history of the socialist countries and people clinging to their old narrow streets, they have built a different culture. Yet even then you see the rich buy the SUVs/CUVs and it would be much like the US if they would replace all the old roads with modern ones and relegate much of the old stuff to history books.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Just a reminder that Continental is really just an MKS upgrade utilizing a chassis that exists (albeit modified), and a name with great heritage (thank God at least Lincoln is getting away from alphanumeric).  The all new D6 is a few years away still as all new platforms that will underpin so much with excellent flexibility, do not come quickly. What was Lincoln to do in the interim as they killed the heavy current Taurus/MKS platform?  I would say this is an excellent stop-gap and a perfect addition to their lineup.  

 

And with this all new flexible chassis, Lincoln can go in any direction they like, which could include a larger flagship. 

I for one love the journey of their rebirth.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Wings4Life

[Drew Dowdell]

As an MKS replacement it is a yugggge leap over the existing product.   If D6 is not ready to wear the Continental name yet, I'm okay with this car holding the title for a bit.... at least it's not MKS.  And yes, I'm really glad they're using a real name.  

 

Though it they were going this route, I would have hoped they'd move the MKZ back to the Zephyr name. 

 

Edit: And MKX back to Aviator. 

[smk4565]

 

Mercedes didn't sell 188,000 cars out of 308,000 total units?  The YTD sales chart in the sales section says they did.  

Totals thru Nov 2015; 187446 cars, 147282 trucks/SUVs/CUVs. Yes, the Sprinter is included, it's a "mercedes" & reported on same chart, isn't it?

187446 out of 334728 is 56% cars. 

 

MB relies heavily on trucks in the U.S., and HEAVILY on fleets in Europe. It's how they pursue ever higher production goals, their #1 purpose.

In 2015 YTD, 69.3% of GM sales are truck and crossover, and 30.7% sedan/coupe/convertible.

 

Over at Ford in 2015, 68.8% of sales are trucks and utilities and 31.2% are cars.

 

As I said, the American car companies want to sell trucks and don't care about selling cars.  They haven't in years.  That is why the CamCords win the family sedan sales crown and the imports win the luxury sales.    That is why they make "stop gap" Continentals, because they just need a product to put in the show room, same reason we got the XTS.  Notice they don't make a "stop gap" Explorer or Escape.  If Ford was really committed to luxury sedans you'd see a better effort on the Continental and MKZ.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

As an MKS replacement it is a yugggge leap over the existing product.   If D6 is not ready to wear the Continental name yet, I'm okay with this car holding the title for a bit.... at least it's not MKS.  And yes, I'm really glad they're using a real name.  

 

Though it they were going this route, I would have hoped they'd move the MKZ back to the Zephyr name. 

 

Edit: And MKX back to Aviator. 

 

I never liked the Zephyr name.  Obviously though anything is possible when the next gen arrives, no doubt based on new platform.  A freshening was probably not a best time to introduce a name however.

[smk4565]

As an MKS replacement it is a yugggge leap over the existing product.   If D6 is not ready to wear the Continental name yet, I'm okay with this car holding the title for a bit.... at least it's not MKS.  And yes, I'm really glad they're using a real name.  

 

Though it they were going this route, I would have hoped they'd move the MKZ back to the Zephyr name. 

 

Edit: And MKX back to Aviator. 

Agreed on the real names.  And they would have to find one for MKC, Mariner maybe?  

 

Remember when the MKS came out and they staged a hill climb race pitting the MKS ecoboost against an Infiniti M, a Jaguar XF 4.2 liter, a 5-series and an E350.  And the MKS of course was the fastest because it had a 50 hp and torque advantage over those cars, and it was basically all up hill where braking and handling were minimized.  And they tried to claim how the MKS was better a better performance car than the Euro imports, and look how sad the MKS is now.  I feel like we are going to get another half-baked effort on the Continental that they will try to say rivals a Lexus LS460, and 5 years from now Continental will be a joke like the MKS is today.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

As an MKS replacement it is a yugggge leap over the existing product.   If D6 is not ready to wear the Continental name yet, I'm okay with this car holding the title for a bit.... at least it's not MKS.  And yes, I'm really glad they're using a real name.  

 

Though it they were going this route, I would have hoped they'd move the MKZ back to the Zephyr name. 

 

Edit: And MKX back to Aviator. 

 

I never liked the Zephyr name.  Obviously though anything is possible when the next gen arrives, no doubt based on new platform.  A freshening was probably not a best time to introduce a name however.

 

 

It was a pretty big change in appearance though... I think timing it with the reappearance of the Continental would have been good. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

Mercedes didn't sell 188,000 cars out of 308,000 total units?  The YTD sales chart in the sales section says they did.  

Totals thru Nov 2015; 187446 cars, 147282 trucks/SUVs/CUVs. Yes, the Sprinter is included, it's a "mercedes" & reported on same chart, isn't it?

187446 out of 334728 is 56% cars. 

 

MB relies heavily on trucks in the U.S., and HEAVILY on fleets in Europe. It's how they pursue ever higher production goals, their #1 purpose.

In 2015 YTD, 69.3% of GM sales are truck and crossover, and 30.7% sedan/coupe/convertible.

 

Over at Ford in 2015, 68.8% of sales are trucks and utilities and 31.2% are cars.

 

As I said, the American car companies want to sell trucks and don't care about selling cars.  They haven't in years.  That is why the CamCords win the family sedan sales crown and the imports win the luxury sales.    That is why they make "stop gap" Continentals, because they just need a product to put in the show room, same reason we got the XTS.  Notice they don't make a "stop gap" Explorer or Escape.  If Ford was really committed to luxury sedans you'd see a better effort on the Continental and MKZ.

 

 

Complete rubbish.

 

Focus and Cruze are as good or better than any Japanese equivalent.

Continental and CT6 are better than any Japanese equivalent.

MKZ 400hp and CTS are better than any Japanese equivalent.

Mustang Camaro are better than any Japanese equivalent.....if they were to build something to compete.

Fusion and Fusion Sport (soon to be introduced) are as good or better.

Pick any CUV to compare, and Detroit comes out ahead.

 

Do they sell a lot of trucks?

Heck yah, and that's because the Japanese make crap in that segment.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Wings4Life

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

As an MKS replacement it is a yugggge leap over the existing product.   If D6 is not ready to wear the Continental name yet, I'm okay with this car holding the title for a bit.... at least it's not MKS.  And yes, I'm really glad they're using a real name.  

 

Though it they were going this route, I would have hoped they'd move the MKZ back to the Zephyr name. 

 

Edit: And MKX back to Aviator. 

 

I never liked the Zephyr name.  Obviously though anything is possible when the next gen arrives, no doubt based on new platform.  A freshening was probably not a best time to introduce a name however.

 

 

It was a pretty big change in appearance though... I think timing it with the reappearance of the Continental would have been good. 

 

 

Was it really a big change in your opinion?  I mean, aside from a new fascia, there was nothing else. Even interiors pretty much stayed the same.

[smk4565]

 

 

 

Mercedes didn't sell 188,000 cars out of 308,000 total units?  The YTD sales chart in the sales section says they did.  

Totals thru Nov 2015; 187446 cars, 147282 trucks/SUVs/CUVs. Yes, the Sprinter is included, it's a "mercedes" & reported on same chart, isn't it?

187446 out of 334728 is 56% cars. 

 

MB relies heavily on trucks in the U.S., and HEAVILY on fleets in Europe. It's how they pursue ever higher production goals, their #1 purpose.

In 2015 YTD, 69.3% of GM sales are truck and crossover, and 30.7% sedan/coupe/convertible.

 

Over at Ford in 2015, 68.8% of sales are trucks and utilities and 31.2% are cars.

 

As I said, the American car companies want to sell trucks and don't care about selling cars.  They haven't in years.  That is why the CamCords win the family sedan sales crown and the imports win the luxury sales.    That is why they make "stop gap" Continentals, because they just need a product to put in the show room, same reason we got the XTS.  Notice they don't make a "stop gap" Explorer or Escape.  If Ford was really committed to luxury sedans you'd see a better effort on the Continental and MKZ.

 

 

Complete rubbish.

 

Focus and Cruze are as good or better than any Japanese equivalent.

Continental and CT6 are better than any Japanese equivalent.

Mustang Camaro are better than any Japanese equivalent.....if they were to build something to compete.

Fusion and Fusion Sport (soon to be introduced) are as good or better.

Pick any CUV to compare, and Detroit comes out ahead.

 

Do they sell a lot of trucks?

Heck yah, and that's because the Japanese make crap in that segment.

 

We don't know that the CT6 or Continental are better than the Japanese equivalent because they aren't out yet.  But I do think Lexus has left the LS460 to die on the market, they haven't put a new engine in that car since 2007, it still has that same V8.  Why isn't there a turbo V6 hybrid, a V8 and a turbo V8?   The Tacoma is still the top selling mid-size truck, so they do have a market there.  The weakness of Toyota is the Tundra.  Just like GM and Ford ignore sedans some times, the same can be said about Toyota and full size trucks.  I think Toyota should dump the Scion brand, give every dollar spent on that to the Tundra team to make it more competitive.  Then bring back the Celica as a small front drive sports car for the young people that Toyota desperately needs that aren't buying Scions anyway.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

 

As an MKS replacement it is a yugggge leap over the existing product.   If D6 is not ready to wear the Continental name yet, I'm okay with this car holding the title for a bit.... at least it's not MKS.  And yes, I'm really glad they're using a real name.  

 

Though it they were going this route, I would have hoped they'd move the MKZ back to the Zephyr name. 

 

Edit: And MKX back to Aviator. 

 

I never liked the Zephyr name.  Obviously though anything is possible when the next gen arrives, no doubt based on new platform.  A freshening was probably not a best time to introduce a name however.

 

 

It was a pretty big change in appearance though... I think timing it with the reappearance of the Continental would have been good. 

 

 

Was it really a big change in your opinion?  I mean, aside from a new fascia, there was nothing else. Even interiors pretty much stayed the same.

 

 

I actually need to do a post on that.   I found the interiors to be much improved in very subtle ways.  I got a lot of close up pictures to showcase what I mean. 

 

I think it is enough of a visual departure from the previous MKZ that yes, they could have pulled off a name switch, and that with the Continental re-joining the lineup sharing this new look, this would have been the most appropriate time to make a switch. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

^

I see your point drew, and I have to say I kind of agree.

 

Although I am not excited about the Zephyr name still.

[Drew Dowdell]

I suppose the actual name doesn't matter as long as it is a name and not just letters.  Maybe Versailles?   

 

But yea, the MKX definitely should have been the Aviator. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

I suppose the actual name doesn't matter as long as it is a name and not just letters.  Maybe Versailles?   

 

But yea, the MKX definitely should have been the Aviator. 

 

 

No, the Aviator will be the Aviator.

MKX.....I don't know.  It was it's own thing with zero heritage, so unsure there.

[Drew Dowdell]

I suppose the actual name doesn't matter as long as it is a name and not just letters. Maybe Versailles?

But yea, the MKX definitely should have been the Aviator.

No, the Aviator will be the Aviator.

MKX.....I don't know. It was it's own thing with zero heritage, so unsure there.

There is a 5th Lincoln SUV coming?

[smk4565]

I think an Explorer based Lincoln, which would be the Aviator.   MKT will probably die off, you'd have MKC, MKX, Aviator, Navigator, and 2 sedans.   As I said before, Ford and GM just want to sell trucks and utilities.   Maybe they'll make an MKA crossover based on the Fiesta platform with a 1.0 liter turbo for $24,995.

[Drew Dowdell]

Ford and GM (and any manufacturer) just wants to sell what people want to buy. That's why BMW has been introducing a new Ultimate Driving Niche every year and Mercedes has been doing The Best, or another Niche for years now. I mean, do we really need a GLE Coupe and 3-Series AMC Eagle GT?

Edited December 25, 2015 by Drew Dowdell
fixed the word "tell" to "sell"... which completely changed the meaning of the sentence.... stupid auto correct.

[smk4565]

BMW is ridiculous.  I think there is room for one Mercedes crossover sports coupe thing, but sadly they are making a 2nd one.   They do make an E-class sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon, so why not a GLE regular body and coupe body.  I don't think they need a GLC crossover coupe, I think those people would buy a GLC anyway.  

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

I suppose the actual name doesn't matter as long as it is a name and not just letters. Maybe Versailles? :smilewide:

But yea, the MKX definitely should have been the Aviator.

No, the Aviator will be the Aviator.

MKX.....I don't know. It was it's own thing with zero heritage, so unsure there.

There is a 5th Lincoln SUV coming?

 

 

How can you not now this?  It is a huge topic elsewhere I guess.

Ford and GM (and any manufacturer) just wants to sell what people want to buy. That's why BMW has been introducing a new Ultimate Driving Niche every year and Mercedes has been doing The Best, or another Niche for years now. I mean, do we really need a GLE Coupe and 3-Series AMC Eagle GT?

 

 

Exactly.

They offer something to everyone in every segment.  That is what they do.

[ocnblu]

BMW is ridiculous.  I think there is room for one Mercedes crossover sports coupe thing, but sadly they are making a 2nd one.   They do make an E-class sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon, so why not a GLE regular body and coupe body.  I don't think they need a GLC crossover coupe, I think those people would buy a GLC anyway.  

[Suaviloquent]

The more I think about it... the fact that we are even getting a Continental in North America is pretty much just a bonus.

 

It's more a China-first car, because of what it is. Now that shouldn't be taken as a demerit. If there's one wealthy market to chase after, it's China. The prices in of anything with an engine above 1.5L China are hideous with the displacement taxes.

 

Sure enough, I guess the aristocrats there might be able to work around much of the economic disincentives with credits and loopholes, but Ford's more confident in selling a flagship sedan there than here. I suspect many people will equate a CT6 and this Continental as full, viable substitutes of one another.   

 

I think D6 based products will be the true "One Lincoln" product effort.

 

I think going with names is better than what they have right now. 

[smk4565]

In doing a little reading on D6, it looks like the MKZ and MKT replacements in 2019 will be the first products.  That is still a ways off, and these are just going to be more fwd/awd vehicles, sounds like every Lincoln will be made off of one modular platform.  Which is good for economies of scale, but maybe not best for building the best possible car.   Lincoln is spending $5 billion in 5 years to do this, that is really a drop in the bucket when Audi spends $5 billion in a single year.

 

I want to see the final product and how they price the Continental.  I suspect a big let down from the original show car is coming.

[Drew Dowdell]

In doing a little reading on D6, it looks like the MKZ and MKT replacements in 2019 will be the first products.  That is still a ways off, and these are just going to be more fwd/awd vehicles, sounds like every Lincoln will be made off of one modular platform.  Which is good for economies of scale, but maybe not best for building the best possible car.   Lincoln is spending $5 billion in 5 years to do this, that is really a drop in the bucket when Audi spends $5 billion in a single year.

 

I want to see the final product and how they price the Continental.  I suspect a big let down from the original show car is coming.

 

I'm told that the D6 platform can support FWD/AWD/RWD. 

[El Kabong]

I heard something similar. Basically, if Lincoln can hold on 'till this thing drops it may have a chance. It seems like quite the platform, but the timeframe is a huge issue.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

With flexible manufacturing, combined with flexible drivetrain/powertrain combinations, Ford or Lincoln will be able to literally and uniquely offer a single product class vehicle that supports FWD, RWD or AWD that spans across sedan and CUV class vehicles.  The first of these products are about 2 years away.   

 

As far as hurrying and surviving until then, I am pretty sure that Lincoln (certainly Ford) will be fine with their year over year gains in the interim.