Chrysler News: Rumorpile: Chrysler's Future Lineup Is 'Under Re-evaluation'

[Drew Dowdell]

The Wikipedia page for HCCI is quite detailed and informative.

[cp-the-nerd]

Think of a typical midsize sedan getting 26-28 mpg city and then achieving 45+ mpg highway in HCCI mode. Truly industry-changing technology for America's highway commuters.

[Suaviloquent]

Yes. And this is how technology evolves.

 

When hybrids and electric cars (or any alternative fuel/powered vehicle) become superior, they'll have faced waves after waves of competing cars that run on gas alone. And it seems like even with over a century of updates, there's more to come.

 

The economy has come back, certainly not all the way, but inextricably gas has become cheaper when it doesn't make any sense. (Well it does if you do all your homework, but hey school's just started I can schmooze my way back. Got triple A. AAA. ye!!!!)

 

I did a course this past term - it was about Science and technology.

 

I loved the article about use-based histories of technology, not innovation based histotries. That at times reserve technologies fight back for relevance because (very quietly as well) they offer reliability or ease of use and ubiquitous understanding. Or how mechanisms of control on the previous technologies are sometimes transplanted onto the new ones or to achieve a similar result.

 

For example - there's a very current debate to start taxing electric vehicles for the miles driven because they do not contribute to the fuel tax. It sets the story pretty clear - it seems like there will be no free lunch for any driver.

 

What does this mean for Chrysler? 

 

Well, aside from the looming CAFE updates, their biding of time with excellent transmissions and some forways with diesel is coming to an end, fast.

 

This is a time where automakers have to respond quickly to disruptions in the marketplace, and they can come from anywhere. Pushing product back, if there aren't any modifications will lead to products quickly becoming obsolete. And fixing a product near the delivery date is extremely expensive.

 

I hope, for the love of god that Marchionne uses the Ferrari money for things that will plant the seeds for a lot of future product for the money-making brands in the portfolio. Spending money to fix an uncompetitive Fiat at the expense of letting FCA US LLC brands slide would be very stupid.

 

He'd be compared to Piech for empire-building if the plan doesn't work. On his side though are gifts from automotive heaven - cheap gas in the near term and the rest of the industry picking up the gasoline slack to produce even more hurdles for alternative vehicles.

[G. David Felt]

Washington State and Oregon State both have a new tax plan. You can switch from paying your tabs and gas tax to a miles tax and have your car inspected once a year and they record the miles driven and you pay your tax then. 

 

The benefit about Miles Tax over gas tax is that for those that use mass transit, hardly drive or have no car to drive you do not pay the tax or a very little tax and those that enjoy driving and drive lots pay for the wear n tear they put on the roads.

 

This is from 2013 when the talk went on and the programs had not started yet but a good overview.

http://www.opb.org/news/article/n3-washington-oregon-consider-mileage-based-road-tax/

 

Here is an update on the program with specific figures on cost.

http://www.krem.com/story/news/local/northwest/2014/12/10/cost-of-washingtons-pay-by-mile-program/20190527/

 

Next step is for Insurance to charge by the mile driven. That is now available here in Washington.

http://q13fox.com/2013/11/19/new-pay-per-mile-car-insurance-arrives-in-washington/

 

Here is the coverage about the Oregon pay per mile program.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/03/oregon-launches-program-to-tax-drivers-by-mile.html

http://gas2.org/2015/03/13/oregon-testing-orego-pay-per-mile-program/

 

The actual Oregon Pay as you go web site for specific info on their pay per mile program.

http://www.myorego.org/

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

First, Thanks both you and dfelt!

 

Second, a sub 4000lb suv of that size even in "just" FWD form is fantastic! My Escape, I believe, tips the scales just a tad over 3800 with AWD and the damn panorama sunroof. So for something to grow in size that much and gain less than 200lbs is a job very well done, yet again, my the Mazda crew.  I like everything Mazda has done in the past 3ish years. They're the "drivers cars" of the common folk and put up fantastic economy numbers while doing so. Oh, and they are all the best looking in their respective classes, IMO. I don't know about the interior comparisons as I haven't been in one, let alone all of the competition for a comparison.

 

The very latest generation of Mazdas have fantastic FANTASTIC interiors.  The CX-3 far far exceeds it's class and would put an Audi Q3 to shame.  Easily best in class.

 

I sat in the new CX-9 in LA and it is every bit as good as these press photos suggest.

 

 

 

Drew, is that nav screen move up and down into the dash? Looks like it could.

 

 

Reply back from Mazda - The NAV screen does not retract into the dash.

[G. David Felt]

 

Yup, yup, yup.

 

It is about as difficult, if not more than trying to build a diesel engine without exhaust after-treatment to comply with U.S. emissions regulations.

 

But it's the key to unlocking an new wave of efficiency for gas engines.

 

It might permanently make diesels irrelevant for passenger vehicles. 

 

 

Indeed.... the key is that an HCCI engine cannot run in that mode all the time.  It only runs in HCCI mode under light loads... put too much fuel/air mixture into the cylinder and then things don't work right. The big issue GM was having when it was working on it back in the Saturn days was the transition from HCCI to normal spark ignition.  The engine worked fine in either mode, but it was the switching of modes that was less than graceful.   Even then, I think that Aura would only run in HCCI at stead speed from 35 - 55 mph, but don't quote me on that.

 

 

Latest computer technology I believe will change the switch over problem. Just like the days of the V8-6-4 engine which was a disaster, it was before it's time of having the electronics, computer smarts to make it work best.

 

Today, I would not be surprised if a V8-6-4 engine would work very well and smooth. Sadly emissions is a viable issue that needs to be addressed and I think HCCI engines with alternative fuels will be a stepping stone much like CNG towards the eventual day of pure EV auto's.

 

I can see a day when a standardized electric cell will work on any auto and you just stop as an EV station and swap cells and continue on your way.

[G. David Felt]

 

 

Yup, yup, yup.

 

It is about as difficult, if not more than trying to build a diesel engine without exhaust after-treatment to comply with U.S. emissions regulations.

 

But it's the key to unlocking an new wave of efficiency for gas engines.

 

It might permanently make diesels irrelevant for passenger vehicles. 

I think Hyundai has been working on this for a few years at this point. No clue where/how the progress is at this point though. I just remember reading something on it quite awhile ago and I thought the idea was awesome. 

 

Definitely make diesels irrelevant in passenger vehicles. I don't know what kind of energy difference there is between a given amount of diesel vs gasoline but if you can get diesel efficiency with gasoline prices, we're talking monster jump in the industry. 

 

 

Well, it's not not going to go into HD trucks, it doesn't have the torque.  Overall, the power characteristics of the engine don't change, because anything above light throttle and it switches back to being a conventional engine.   The only advantage is in fuel savings during light load times.... You'd get fantastic highway fuel economy, but city would be the same as any other conventional gasoline engine of the same size and features since that's when you're into the throttle most often. 

 

 

Wonder how this engine might work in a Hybrid style of auto for long distant road trips. Have electric for city driving and an HCCI engine for road trips and recharging of the battery pack.

[G. David Felt]

 

 

 

First, Thanks both you and dfelt!

 

Second, a sub 4000lb suv of that size even in "just" FWD form is fantastic! My Escape, I believe, tips the scales just a tad over 3800 with AWD and the damn panorama sunroof. So for something to grow in size that much and gain less than 200lbs is a job very well done, yet again, my the Mazda crew.  I like everything Mazda has done in the past 3ish years. They're the "drivers cars" of the common folk and put up fantastic economy numbers while doing so. Oh, and they are all the best looking in their respective classes, IMO. I don't know about the interior comparisons as I haven't been in one, let alone all of the competition for a comparison.

 

The very latest generation of Mazdas have fantastic FANTASTIC interiors.  The CX-3 far far exceeds it's class and would put an Audi Q3 to shame.  Easily best in class.

 

I sat in the new CX-9 in LA and it is every bit as good as these press photos suggest.

 

 

 

Drew, is that nav screen move up and down into the dash? Looks like it could.

 

 

Reply back from Mazda - The NAV screen does not retract into the dash.

 

 

Bummer that would give it a very clean look when the end user did not want the nav / screen use.

 

Much appreciated on getting an answer. Thanks Drew.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

Yup, yup, yup.

 

It is about as difficult, if not more than trying to build a diesel engine without exhaust after-treatment to comply with U.S. emissions regulations.

 

But it's the key to unlocking an new wave of efficiency for gas engines.

 

It might permanently make diesels irrelevant for passenger vehicles. 

 

 

Indeed.... the key is that an HCCI engine cannot run in that mode all the time.  It only runs in HCCI mode under light loads... put too much fuel/air mixture into the cylinder and then things don't work right. The big issue GM was having when it was working on it back in the Saturn days was the transition from HCCI to normal spark ignition.  The engine worked fine in either mode, but it was the switching of modes that was less than graceful.   Even then, I think that Aura would only run in HCCI at stead speed from 35 - 55 mph, but don't quote me on that.

 

 

Latest computer technology I believe will change the switch over problem. Just like the days of the V8-6-4 engine which was a disaster, it was before it's time of having the electronics, computer smarts to make it work best.

 

Today, I would not be surprised if a V8-6-4 engine would work very well and smooth. Sadly emissions is a viable issue that needs to be addressed and I think HCCI engines with alternative fuels will be a stepping stone much like CNG towards the eventual day of pure EV auto's.

 

I can see a day when a standardized electric cell will work on any auto and you just stop as an EV station and swap cells and continue on your way.

 

 

GM and Chrysler and Mercedes have been running 8-6-4 V8s since 2004..... they just skip the 6 part because there is very little benefit for a large jump in complexity.  Also, in 6 mode, a V8 isn't very well balanced, so they feel harsh. It is with this technology that GM is able to build a 6.3 V8 that equals the fuel economy of Ford's 3.5 Ecoboost.

[G. David Felt]

Thanks Drew for the reminder, I had forgotten that many have done the V8 to V4 increasing fuel economy.

[Drew Dowdell]

Thanks Drew for the reminder, I had forgotten that many have done the V8 to V4 increasing fuel economy.

 

The next step for GM is called Skip-Fire.  The V8 will be able to run on as few as two cylinders. The computer decides instantaneously if the next cylinder needs to fire or not depending on power and smoothness needs. 

[ccap41]

 

 

 

 

I sat in the new CX-9 in LA and it is every bit as good as these press photos suggest.

 

 

 

Drew, is that nav screen move up and down into the dash? Looks like it could.

 

 

Reply back from Mazda - The NAV screen does not retract into the dash.

 

 

Bummer that would give is a very clean look when the end user did not want the nav / screen use.

 

Much appreciated on getting an answer. Thanks Drew.

 

I assume it would always be in use, though, with the radio on. It would look very clean down but realistically, I don't see a time when it would be down other than when you turn the car off and it would just be adding weight and complexity to have it move up and down. 

[Stew]

The new Pacifica made a fantastic showing at Detroit and confirmation the GC Trackhawk is coming with  the full 707 HP backed with AWD and a actory quoted 0-60 of 3.5 (their estimates are usually a bit slower than the actual numbers too!).  I see a lot more coming!