Buick News: Buick Envision Is Coming To The U.S. Next Summer

[William Maley]

The go-ahead has been given and next summer, Buick will launch the Envision crossover. According to Automotive News, Buick's chief Duncan Aldred told members of the Buick National Dealer Council yesterday and was planning to announce it to the rest of Buick's dealers today. Aldred confirmed the decision in an interview today.

 

“Talk about a catalyst for the Buick brand and for volume growth. We’re putting in what I believe is a class-leading vehicle in the heart of the U.S. auto industry. This is massive for Buick,” said Aldred.

 

Dealers have been wanting the Envision for quite a while now as it would fill a gap between the subcompact Encore and full-size Enclave. The vehicle will be exported from China, which will draw the ire of some.

 

The U.S.-Spec Envision will come with a turbocharged 2.0L four-cylinder paired with a six-speed automatic and all-wheel drive. A two-wheel drive version with a different engine is being considered for the future.

 

The Envision will be the first GM model to use a new global compact platform. This platform will also underpin the next-generation Chevrolet Equinox and GMC Terrain, which are expected to go on sale in 2017.

 

Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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[Drew Dowdell]

That works out good for us.  We'll probably trade the Encore into one of these as soon as a loaded one is available.  I had originally hoped the Envision was going to be here at the end of this summer to time with the end of our lease, but buying out the lease and keeping it an extra year isn't the worse thing in the world. 

[daves87rs]

So driving one of these will tell us how the next Nox and Terrain will be...hmmm....

 

That said, I am excited to see it....think it will do well...even better is gas prices stay low for a while....

[ccap41]

What size vehicle is this? This is like the Nox/Terrain size, right?

[regfootball]

i've made peace with the de-Buickification and am glad they finally get this in their lineup, i've warmed up to this.    this would be perfect for my mom

[ocnblu]

As facsimiles go, it's not bad I guess.  Yay.

[hyperv6]

My question is how GM will market this and the Terrain Denali in the same dealer.

 

The Denali package and much of the GM packages are now marketed as higher end trucks and much like Buicks.

​This may account for the smaller numbers being imported?

[Drew Dowdell]

My question is how GM will market this and the Terrain Denali in the same dealer.

The Denali package and much of the GM packages are now marketed as higher end trucks and much like Buicks.

​This may account for the smaller numbers being imported?

Visual differences I assume. It works for the Acadia Denali and Buick Enclave today. There is still enough "I'm too young to buy a Buick" mentality out there no matter how good Buick gets, so having GMC there to catch those people is a good thing.

[William Maley]

What size vehicle is this? This is like the Nox/Terrain size, right?

 

Yes

[Drew Dowdell]

What size vehicle is this? This is like the Nox/Terrain size, right?

 

I believe the next Nox and Terrain will be downsized a bit to more closely match the direct competition in size. At the moment, they are tweeners that sit between CRV and (old) Pilot in size, yet still smaller than the other tweener from Ford, the Edge.  This would give GM some room between the Nox and Traverse for a Blazer type vehicle. 

[G. David Felt]

How much bigger is this than the Encore?

[smk4565]

Probably a preview of the Cadillac XT3 once they can get a North American factory to start making these.  They can swap out some sheet metal and the grille, throw in CUE.  Then GM can get 4 crossovers on this platform.

[aurora97]

I guess this means that all VINs on this model will start with "L" since China is the country of origin.

[ocnblu]

All Encores start with "K" for Korea.

[Drew Dowdell]

I have a feeling, and this is just a hunch, that like the Volvo S60 Inscription that is built in China and the Regal from Germany before it, this will be a stop-gap measure for Buick. They are building it in China for now because they don't have a line ready in the US to build it on, yet they needed the model here 3 years ago and cannot afford to delay it any further.  Once the 'Nox and Terrain replacements are up and running, I'm betting that Envision production for North American consumption will be shifted to this continent.

 

I've been told this directly by a Volvo rep. The Volvo S60 Inscription is a one and done for Chinese production selling in the US.  Once the new model comes, it will be built in South Carolina at Volvo's new U.S. plant.  So think about that for a moment... the next generation of Volvos being sold here are going to be U.S. built, and Swedish designed, by a Chinese owned company. 

[ocnblu]

I agree with worldwide emissions and crash standards.  I do not agree with CAFE standards because I think the customer should be given the choice of what to buy to match his needs.  I also do not agree with the globalization of the auto industry.  I believe it waters down the product if it is made to the tastes of consumers on multiple continents.  Chevrolet Colorado is a case in point... not a fan of the "global" version of my truck.  Love the U.S. version, hence I bought one.

[hyperv6]

 

My question is how GM will market this and the Terrain Denali in the same dealer.

The Denali package and much of the GM packages are now marketed as higher end trucks and much like Buicks.

​This may account for the smaller numbers being imported?

Visual differences I assume. It works for the Acadia Denali and Buick Enclave today. There is still enough "I'm too young to buy a Buick" mentality out there no matter how good Buick gets, so having GMC there to catch those people is a good thing.

 

 

 

I had considered this.

 

Note the next Nox  will be just a little smaller but it should have the same or nearly the same interior room with better interior packaging. I like ours but the interior has a lot of wasted space due to strut tower intrustion and a dash that is overly large and takes up a lot of space.

 

Like I said too this is short term import as they have not gotten the Ingersoll plant changed over and if they want to get a head start with this model a small group imported will give them that start.

 

I suspect once the Nox enters production the Buick will joint it.

 

Note I have heard the Terrain would be built on the same line as the XT5. Now if that is true could the Terrain also be a cheaper longer wheel base? Just a though here as I have nothing concrete. This two could keep the Buick and Terrain from competing. As of yet we really have nothing on the Terrain to this point. No mules and no real clues.

[smk4565]

Would make more sense if Equinox and Envision were small segment and Terrain was mid-size along with mid-size XT5.  The Equinox is like a foot longer than an Ford Escape, and the small SUV segment is really hot and were a lot of female buyers are going.  The Equinox and Envision should be the footprint of a Cruze, but at Malibu and Regal money.  Then Terrain and a possible Blazer would be mid-size vs the Highlander, Edge, Sante Fe type crossovers, and Lambdas as full size.  And if there was no Blazer at least the Terrain would be sized differently than the Equinox and Envision so there would be less overlap.

[regfootball]

Buick needed this 5 years ago.  The crossover market is huge, while i dislike that this is from China, this will be Buick's biggest seller once its up and running possibly.  The aging population and people's changing preference to crossovers, Buick and GMC showrooms still won't have enough choices. Terrain and Envision can peacefully exist together for a long time.

[hyperv6]

Buick needed this 5 years ago.  The crossover market is huge, while i dislike that this is from China, this will be Buick's biggest seller once its up and running possibly.  The aging population and people's changing preference to crossovers, Buick and GMC showrooms still won't have enough choices. Terrain and Envision can peacefully exist together for a long time.

 

 

GM would have liked to had this 5 years ago but just had too many other models they needed and too many other things needed down with the money they had.

 

Also they needed to start eh move of Cadillac up to give them room to place this. Also also the new platform will prove to be a better investment. Weight and compromised interior space was a problem on the last platform.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

My question is how GM will market this and the Terrain Denali in the same dealer.

The Denali package and much of the GM packages are now marketed as higher end trucks and much like Buicks.

​This may account for the smaller numbers being imported?

Visual differences I assume. It works for the Acadia Denali and Buick Enclave today. There is still enough "I'm too young to buy a Buick" mentality out there no matter how good Buick gets, so having GMC there to catch those people is a good thing.

 

 

 

I had considered this.

 

Note the next Nox  will be just a little smaller but it should have the same or nearly the same interior room with better interior packaging. I like ours but the interior has a lot of wasted space due to strut tower intrustion and a dash that is overly large and takes up a lot of space.

 

Like I said too this is short term import as they have not gotten the Ingersoll plant changed over and if they want to get a head start with this model a small group imported will give them that start.

 

I suspect once the Nox enters production the Buick will joint it.

 

Note I have heard the Terrain would be built on the same line as the XT5. Now if that is true could the Terrain also be a cheaper longer wheel base? Just a though here as I have nothing concrete. This two could keep the Buick and Terrain from competing. As of yet we really have nothing on the Terrain to this point. No mules and no real clues.

 

 

I also have heard that a yet-unnamed GMC would be built at Springhill with the XT5.  That could mean Terrain or it could mean another model is joining the GMC brand (which also wouldn't surprise me).  With Springhill being the most flex production line GM has, I don't think the other vehicles being built there have any bearing on the wheelbase of the GMC though.    It is entirely conceivable that there are short wheelbase and long wheelbase versions of the Terrain coming.

[ocnblu]

2- and 3-row versions?  That could be interesting.

[ccap41]

 

What size vehicle is this? This is like the Nox/Terrain size, right?

 

I believe the next Nox and Terrain will be downsized a bit to more closely match the direct competition in size. At the moment, they are tweeners that sit between CRV and (old) Pilot in size, yet still smaller than the other tweener from Ford, the Edge.  This would give GM some room between the Nox and Traverse for a Blazer type vehicle. 

 

 Well color me a little more intrigued now.. Depending how it all pans out(and life) I could see looking into one of these in a few years once they're used and the Escape is on its way out.

 

I actually love the Edge's size. It's larger than the Escape but it's still a 5 seater so it isn't gargantuan. Especially because I do not need more than 5 seats. Actually, I utilized all 5 in my Escape for the first time this weekend. Just a short trip bringing people home from the bar but that's one thing my Mustang never could have done.

[ocnblu]

It is ridiculous packing three rows of seats in anything smaller than a Burb anyway.  Unless legless passengers.

[Drew Dowdell]

It is ridiculous packing three rows of seats in anything smaller than a Burb anyway.  Unless legless passengers.

 

I fit in the 3rd row of a Traverse and Durango just fine thanks.

[ccap41]

 

It is ridiculous packing three rows of seats in anything smaller than a Burb anyway.  Unless legless passengers.

 

I fit in the 3rd row of a Traverse and Durango just fine thanks.

 

Yeah I've been in the 3rd row of an Acadia once and a new Explorer once for a 4-5 hr trip and it honestly was not bad at all.   There was quite a bit of space back there. Granted, I'm not the largest person(5'8" - 180lbs) but still a full size adult that means you could have something that size for a growing family.

[regfootball]

It is ridiculous packing three rows of seats in anything smaller than a Burb anyway.  Unless legless passengers.

i would envision (no pun intended) that if something envision size were to add a third row, it would be roughly like the idea behind the Suzuki XL7, that was a stretched Equinox.  back row was ok for kids on that one. The hyundai has the sante fe and santa fe sport, that might be an anology also.

[hyperv6]

 

 

 

My question is how GM will market this and the Terrain Denali in the same dealer.

The Denali package and much of the GM packages are now marketed as higher end trucks and much like Buicks.

​This may account for the smaller numbers being imported?

Visual differences I assume. It works for the Acadia Denali and Buick Enclave today. There is still enough "I'm too young to buy a Buick" mentality out there no matter how good Buick gets, so having GMC there to catch those people is a good thing.

 

 

 

I had considered this.

 

Note the next Nox  will be just a little smaller but it should have the same or nearly the same interior room with better interior packaging. I like ours but the interior has a lot of wasted space due to strut tower intrustion and a dash that is overly large and takes up a lot of space.

 

Like I said too this is short term import as they have not gotten the Ingersoll plant changed over and if they want to get a head start with this model a small group imported will give them that start.

 

I suspect once the Nox enters production the Buick will joint it.

 

Note I have heard the Terrain would be built on the same line as the XT5. Now if that is true could the Terrain also be a cheaper longer wheel base? Just a though here as I have nothing concrete. This two could keep the Buick and Terrain from competing. As of yet we really have nothing on the Terrain to this point. No mules and no real clues.

 

 

I also have heard that a yet-unnamed GMC would be built at Springhill with the XT5.  That could mean Terrain or it could mean another model is joining the GMC brand (which also wouldn't surprise me).  With Springhill being the most flex production line GM has, I don't think the other vehicles being built there have any bearing on the wheelbase of the GMC though.    It is entirely conceivable that there are short wheelbase and long wheelbase versions of the Terrain coming.

 

 

This is what I heard about a year or so ago. That is what got me to consider the GMC could be on the longer platform once I heard the Buick was coming.

 

If they offer long and short wheel base they then run into the trouble like the Envoy where one looks good and the other looks odd. Few vehicles outside the Suburban and Tahoe can pull off the stretch well.

 

Two long in the Cadillac and Terrain and Two short in the Nox and Buick. The price classes are also split up well here too. I have felt this was their plan and what they would do when I heard Terrain and XT5 to Springhill.

 

Now I know they could build a Camaro on the same line as a Nox now but I still think they will keep the split like this. If anything overflow for the Nox would move to Springhill too.

[hyperv6]

I really think the 3rd row stuff is way over played. Not all that many people use them. I see too many headrest video screens on with no one in the second row as it is.

 

I also see a lot of 3rd row seats in garages.

 

In all the time we have had the Terrain only one time we were one seat short.

Edited December 8, 2015 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

You could be right on all counts.... but from what I understand is that there is a short wheelbase (direct replacement) Terrain coming and that the long wheel base is above it.  It might not even keep the same name, just ride on the same platform, so pulling off a stretch isn't just pulling the rear wheels back further. 

 

I"m guessing GMC dealers would not want to give up the sale volume from the current model and only have a 3-row/LWB to sell. 

[hyperv6]

You could be right on all counts.... but from what I understand is that there is a short wheelbase (direct replacement) Terrain coming and that the long wheel base is above it.  It might not even keep the same name, just ride on the same platform, so pulling off a stretch isn't just pulling the rear wheels back further. 

 

I"m guessing GMC dealers would not want to give up the sale volume from the current model and only have a 3-row/LWB to sell. 

 

Well 95% of the GMC dealers are Buick dealers with a new short wheel base Envision.

 

I think my GMC dealer here is one of the very few that is stand alone. Note they also are one of the most productive with an average transaction price around $62,000.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

You could be right on all counts.... but from what I understand is that there is a short wheelbase (direct replacement) Terrain coming and that the long wheel base is above it.  It might not even keep the same name, just ride on the same platform, so pulling off a stretch isn't just pulling the rear wheels back further. 

 

I"m guessing GMC dealers would not want to give up the sale volume from the current model and only have a 3-row/LWB to sell. 

 

Well 95% of the GMC dealers are Buick dealers with a new short wheel base Envision.

 

I think my GMC dealer here is one of the very few that is stand alone. Note they also are one of the most productive with an average transaction price around $62,000.

 

 

I know... but you and I are smarter than the average consumer.  GM has noticed there are still generally strong feelings one way or the other over GMC and Buick as brands.

[G. David Felt]

 

 

You could be right on all counts.... but from what I understand is that there is a short wheelbase (direct replacement) Terrain coming and that the long wheel base is above it.  It might not even keep the same name, just ride on the same platform, so pulling off a stretch isn't just pulling the rear wheels back further. 

 

I"m guessing GMC dealers would not want to give up the sale volume from the current model and only have a 3-row/LWB to sell. 

 

Well 95% of the GMC dealers are Buick dealers with a new short wheel base Envision.

 

I think my GMC dealer here is one of the very few that is stand alone. Note they also are one of the most productive with an average transaction price around $62,000.

 

 

I know... but you and I are smarter than the average consumer.  GM has noticed there are still generally strong feelings one way or the other over GMC and Buick as brands.

 

Drew is right, amazing how many people still have strong feelings especially about Buick as an old persons auto. I have changed many when they went and test drove the Encore and ended up buying it. I have had more people buy the Encore trading in old Subarus. Clearly the car clicks with the 20-30 age crowd.

[hyperv6]

 

 

 

You could be right on all counts.... but from what I understand is that there is a short wheelbase (direct replacement) Terrain coming and that the long wheel base is above it.  It might not even keep the same name, just ride on the same platform, so pulling off a stretch isn't just pulling the rear wheels back further. 

 

I"m guessing GMC dealers would not want to give up the sale volume from the current model and only have a 3-row/LWB to sell. 

 

Well 95% of the GMC dealers are Buick dealers with a new short wheel base Envision.

 

I think my GMC dealer here is one of the very few that is stand alone. Note they also are one of the most productive with an average transaction price around $62,000.

 

 

I know... but you and I are smarter than the average consumer.  GM has noticed there are still generally strong feelings one way or the other over GMC and Buick as brands.

 

Drew is right, amazing how many people still have strong feelings especially about Buick as an old persons auto. I have changed many when they went and test drove the Encore and ended up buying it. I have had more people buy the Encore trading in old Subarus. Clearly the car clicks with the 20-30 age crowd.

 

 

Yes but it is dangerous ground to put two competing models in the same dealer. They did ok with the Nox and Terrain but it was spread out in different dealers not the same show room.

​I have seen them do this before and it is not that I do not trust Mark but there are others at GM that have not been shown the door yet I do not trust. The Encore and the Chevy model are just a little too close for comfort for me. There should have been more changes there. It reeks of profit chasing badge engineering. In the short term it pays in the long term it can damage.

 

The Buicks and Cadillacs are now attracting younger people and I think the issue that they are for the old is on the way out. Look at who is driving what and you may be surprised there are fewer cotton tops.

[ocnblu]

Interiors though.  Encore is WAY above Trax in interior look and feel.  Trax interior is too dumpy for me even turning a blind eye to its growing list of direct competitors.  When directly compared, it is lights out for Trax.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

 

 

You could be right on all counts.... but from what I understand is that there is a short wheelbase (direct replacement) Terrain coming and that the long wheel base is above it.  It might not even keep the same name, just ride on the same platform, so pulling off a stretch isn't just pulling the rear wheels back further. 

 

I"m guessing GMC dealers would not want to give up the sale volume from the current model and only have a 3-row/LWB to sell. 

 

Well 95% of the GMC dealers are Buick dealers with a new short wheel base Envision.

 

I think my GMC dealer here is one of the very few that is stand alone. Note they also are one of the most productive with an average transaction price around $62,000.

 

 

I know... but you and I are smarter than the average consumer.  GM has noticed there are still generally strong feelings one way or the other over GMC and Buick as brands.

 

Drew is right, amazing how many people still have strong feelings especially about Buick as an old persons auto. I have changed many when they went and test drove the Encore and ended up buying it. I have had more people buy the Encore trading in old Subarus. Clearly the car clicks with the 20-30 age crowd.

 

 

Yes but it is dangerous ground to put two competing models in the same dealer. They did ok with the Nox and Terrain but it was spread out in different dealers not the same show room.

​I have seen them do this before and it is not that I do not trust Mark but there are others at GM that have not been shown the door yet I do not trust. The Encore and the Chevy model are just a little too close for comfort for me. There should have been more changes there. It reeks of profit chasing badge engineering. In the short term it pays in the long term it can damage.

 

The Buicks and Cadillacs are now attracting younger people and I think the issue that they are for the old is on the way out. Look at who is driving what and you may be surprised there are fewer cotton tops.

 

 

Acadia and Enclave have pulled it off successfully for their whole 7-8 year run so far. It amazes me that the Lambdas are still selling so well this far into their life, but Buick is going to sell over 60K of them a year with ATPs over $50k while GMC is going to move over 90K Acadias this year with over 25% of those being Denalis. Add in the Traverse with an expected 118k this year and you're up to 275k Lambda being sold... that is better than the best selling single model, the Explorer at 230k... and probably with better ATPs too thanks to Buick and Denali.   So I really don't have much concern over a Terrain and an Envision sharing a wheelbase and showroom as long as they are differentiated at least as well as the Lambda are.

 

As the owner of an Encore, I would strongly disagree with your assessment of the Trax being too close for comfort.  Five minutes behind the wheel of the Trax and I was ready to turn around and go back. I imediately understood why Buick put so much work into the QuietTuning on the Encore... it is the only Buick model with active noise cancellation and its absence in the Trax is noticeable... without ANC you can really hear the sausage being made under the hood and it doesn't sound pretty. The difference in interior material quality is noticeable.

 

Stepping out of the Encore and into the Trax is like... well... stepping out of Buick and into a Chevy..... and that's the way it's supposed to be.

[G. David Felt]

^,  without ANC you can really hear the sausage being made

 

Thanks I needed a good laugh!

[hyperv6]

even keep the same name, just ride on the same platform, so pulling off a stretch isn't just pulling the rear wheels back further. 

 

 

I know... but you and I are smarter than the average consumer.  GM has noticed there are still generally strong feelings one way or the other over GMC and Buick as brands.

Drew is right, amazing how many people still have strong feelings especially about Buick as an old persons auto. I have changed many when they went and test drove the Encore and ended up buying it. I have had more people buy the Encore trading in old Subarus. Clearly the car clicks with the 20-30 age crowd.

 

Yes but it is dangerous ground to put two competing models in the same dealer. They did ok with the Nox and Terrain but it was spread out in different dealers not the same show room.

​I have seen them do this before and it is not that I do not trust Mark but there are others at GM that have not been shown the door yet I do not trust. The Encore and the Chevy model are just a little too close for comfort for me. There should have been more changes there. It reeks of profit chasing badge engineering. In the short term it pays in the long term it can damage.

 

The Buicks and Cadillacs are now attracting younger people and I think the issue that they are for the old is on the way out. Look at who is driving what and you may be surprised there are fewer cotton tops.

 

Acadia and Enclave have pulled it off successfully for their whole 7-8 year run so far. It amazes me that the Lambdas are still selling so well this far into their life, but Buick is going to sell over 60K of them a year with ATPs over $50k while GMC is going to move over 90K Acadias this year with over 25% of those being Denalis. Add in the Traverse with an expected 118k this year and you're up to 275k Lambda being sold... that is better than the best selling single model, the Explorer at 230k... and probably with better ATPs too thanks to Buick and Denali.   So I really don't have much concern over a Terrain and an Envision sharing a wheelbase and showroom as long as they are differentiated at least as well as the Lambda are.

 

As the owner of an Encore, I would strongly disagree with your assessment of the Trax being too close for comfort.  Five minutes behind the wheel of the Trax and I was ready to turn around and go back. I imediately understood why Buick put so much work into the QuietTuning on the Encore... it is the only Buick model with active noise cancellation and its absence in the Trax is noticeable... without ANC you can really hear the sausage being made under the hood and it doesn't sound pretty. The difference in interior material quality is noticeable.

 

Stepping out of the Encore and into the Trax is like... well... stepping out of Buick and into a Chevy..... and that's the way it's supposed to be.

Drew I agree with you internally on all points.

the problem is the styling is not all that much different and to the uneducated buyer as you say would perceive both being the same vehicle for the most part. Much of that is due to the sins of the past where Buicks and Chevys were not all that much different.

To get people inside to see the major differenced the outside has to draw them in. You and I know the difference but the person who see them on the outside will see nearly the same cars and suspect the sausage noise is in both. Many may just drive the Chevy and assume wrong the Buick is just another badge engineered model.

this is what hurt the last gen Chevy truck. It was not a bad looking truck but the styling bellied the fact under the skin it was all new. Today they rehashed the styling that most will feel it is a totally new truck when mostly it is styling. It is still the same good truck but the styling better represents what is inside.

Styling sets the tone. You leave any hints of a Chevy on a Buick it will do Buick no real service to the real work they did under the skin.

I love the people in the Nox and the Terrain forum that fight about how much better the GMC or Nox is than the other. You and I know they are the same accept for some small details. The styling though has lead many to perceive much more value and difference. Styling is a powerful thing and the more different the Buick is from the Chevy the better it is for Buick.

[regfootball]

I really think the 3rd row stuff is way over played. Not all that many people use them. I see too many headrest video screens on with no one in the second row as it is.

 

I also see a lot of 3rd row seats in garages.

 

In all the time we have had the Terrain only one time we were one seat short.

we use third row a lot, as do many of our neighbors.  shuttling kids to acitvities, road trips etc.

 

much of the interest in SUV's i saw when i was selling was people wanted 3rd row as a top priority.

 

third row brings extra $$$$$$, as does AWD.

Edited December 9, 2015 by regfootball

[Suaviloquent]

I think the added benefit of third rows is that they're packaged way better than ever before.

 

You don't lose as much cargo space as a penalty when they're folded, so it's just extra capability you get just in case.

 

I would not hesitate to get a third row that's optional in a giant truck or crossover. It'd be useful eventually, and opens up the resale opportunities when it's time to turn it in for a new vehicle.

[hyperv6]

 

I really think the 3rd row stuff is way over played. Not all that many people use them. I see too many headrest video screens on with no one in the second row as it is.

 

I also see a lot of 3rd row seats in garages.

 

In all the time we have had the Terrain only one time we were one seat short.

we use third row a lot, as do many of our neighbors.  shuttling kids to acitvities, road trips etc.

 

much of the interest in SUV's i saw when i was selling was people wanted 3rd row as a top priority.

 

third row brings extra $$$$$$, as does AWD.

 

 

I am sure some people use it from time to time and some maybe all the time but I see few used on the road daily and between my friends and our family it really has never been something we needed or could not live with out. If we had one it would be folded or removed all the time. Seldom so we have more than 4 kids with us but we only have one of our own too in qualifying this.

 

Either way the Nox and Terrain need to be packaged much better. Ours has so much wasted space that could have been used for more interior room. The sliding back seat is neat but our is never moved and is mostly forward. ​The one thing they need address is the AC and heat to the rear seat. My son hated the lack of vents.. The under seat vents are not all that effective. Also he would love a heated rear seat.

[regfootball]

Nox/terrain is one of the more efficiently packaged Gm vehicles. GM usually is highly inefficient with its space packaging. Nox terrain is spacious in both rows. The sliding rear seat is a huge factor if you want your kids to have leg room esp compared to the escape. The trunk width is where the nox disappoints but it is the typical extremely intrusive wheel housings that are the reason for this. So many of gM s vehicles have no trunk width left after Gm trims out the trunk around the wheels. Why is that? And gm makes extremely high trunk decks. Look at cars like ATS laCrosse and many others. No efficiency. The Mitsubishi outlander is a small 3 row with a sliding seat and it's got tons of second row room and tons of trunk space.

[regfootball]

Chevy / Gm is going where the buyers want. 3 rows. And they are breaking it into small 3 row (for occasional use) and large 3 row like the traverse for often use. And I think they will be both great markets. Some will be able to pay less for the occasional 3rd row. It's a great strategy. The used xl7's that did not have the third row sold less often and for less money than those that did. You could never move an XL7 without it. Although I almost bought the usedone we couldn't move without it because the trunk was so big.

Ford does the third row best in non minivan vehicles. 3rd row is ample and super easy to fold and unfold and it doesn't take much space and leaves a bunch of trunk space because the load floor is not way high up like GM's Some folks don't like the low load floor though. Flex is probably the best packaged 3 row non van on the market. It just needs a prettier wrapper and a new platform.

Edited December 10, 2015 by regfootball

[hyperv6]

Nox/terrain is one of the more efficiently packaged Gm vehicles. GM usually is highly inefficient with its space packaging. Nox terrain is spacious in both rows. The sliding rear seat is a huge factor if you want your kids to have leg room esp compared to the escape. The trunk width is where the nox disappoints but it is the typical extremely intrusive wheel housings that are the reason for this. So many of gM s vehicles have no trunk width left after Gm trims out the trunk around the wheels. Why is that? And gm makes extremely high trunk decks. Look at cars like ATS laCrosse and many others. No efficiency. The Mitsubishi outlander is a small 3 row with a sliding seat and it's got tons of second row room and tons of trunk space.

Well as an owner of one I respectfully disagree.

I love my Terrain but while it has space it is not always used in efficient ways. But to be fair this was a platform that was expanded from a much smaller platform and grew to a size it was never really intended to be during the bail out era. Lutz had to take what he was given to work with and make the best of it. This left a vehicle with a lot of non usable space and also a very heavy model. Note both will be addressed in the next version as we have already seen in the XT5.

While it does have a large back row it lacks cargo space with the rear seat up. Smaller models have more cargo than my Terrain with the seat up.

The strut towers intrude more than in many other models but that is part of the old platform showing.

Also the space on the dash from the base of the windshield to the knees is very much wasted. a more up right dash and moving the front seats up along with the back seat would reallin increase the seat up cargo area.

As for the sliding rear seat it is nice but is it really needed. With the rear seat forward it still has more room than most other models. Outs is forward and never moves with Adults or kids. Now the rear recline is nice and if they could add a few more notches that would be of a benefit.

We have to remember this model was what the Captiva was or Saturn Vue. It was expanded to the first Gen Nox then to the second gen growing each time in all areas but the platform had some limitations. Lutz had no money for a new platform so some compromise is in here.

I still think we should be able to put a bag of golf clubs in the back with out lowering a seat. That should be a standard all GM suv's models should try for in this segment or larger. Even the Fiero will eat a bags of clubs in the trunk.

Also one thing missed in the Terrain is the folding right passenger seat. My HHR, GP and even the new Encore have a passenger seat that folds flat. This way you can carry a 6-8 foot ladder inside the vehicle or other long object. Right now to carry an 8 foot 2x4 I have to put it between the seats and over the console.

Just shy of 6 foot is the length it will carry as our soap box derby car is 6 foot long and the tail is over the console.

The non fold flat rear seat at first appeared to be major issue but as time passed it has proven to be a benefit as it give you the right lift to put the longer object between the seats. I do not believe GM did this intentionally as I do not recommend putting 2x4's up to your dash but it works in a pinch.

It is what it is and while the Nox and Terrain have great seating room and head room it sorely lacks space I have in two smaller vehicles I own or have owned and this should not be. If the GP could haul it with the trunk close like a ladder then the Terrain should too. Both vehicles are nearly the same size foot print wise and one holds more volume by a long shot but it lacks the ability to carry it due to packaging.

[regfootball]

the nox like many 2010+ era GM products and other brands have very intrusive dashboards, especially the lower part.  My guess is this part of the ramp up in crash engineering to control the knees and for placement of air bags.  Now again over time the crash engineering is still improving and some newer models now are going away from those super intrusive dash designs. (even if the consoles are getting more intrusive, oddly).  

 

Nox is a larger vehicle physically than a lot of its competition right now so really the beef is that its just inefficient design. Next nox will align more with the class its in.

 

a Crv utilizes its interior space allotment compared to its wrapper really well.  But the end game for that is that its a tinny rat hole $h! box.  I'm not sure whether any of the vehicles in this class allow for a golf bag, but keep in mind crossovers as a whole are popular because of the perception that trunks in CUV's carry more.  Well, if you've been around cars enough you know the crossover trunks are actually really small.  Most of em.  They just have higher load floors which are easier to use and you can fold the seat.  BUt when the seat is up, you seldom get what you thought, which is why we had the taurus x. It actually had a better cargo area behind the third row than our van does now.. yet i am not sure if even that would get golf clubs in without standing them up a bit.

 

Was tailgating with some friends recently who had a RAV4.  That trunk makes the Equinox' look large, its pretty useless.

 

I specifically now recall a time when i was selling, someone came in to look at a used first gen SRX and was bitching about (and brought with his golf clubs) to see if he could get them to fit and was upset that they wouldn't......even in the cadillac.  He went off about how a Cadillac should be able to hold a golf club bag.

 

A ford Taurus and chevy impala will swallow the golf bag.

 

FOrd Edge might be about the only 2 row crossover i can think of that might be able to without tilting it up.  It has a reasonably deep AND wide cargo space with the seats up.

Edited December 11, 2015 by regfootball