Chevy Bolt Revealed: MT

[El Kabong]

It appears to be a tall wagon with a mix of Volt and Cruze styling cues. And, of course, that 200 mile battery range. Pretty neat stuff.

More at the link:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/spied-production-chevrolet-bolt-caught-completely-undisguised/

[ocnblu]

Very nice.  Better than the concept version!

[G. David Felt]

Interesting to compare the concept to the production. Very close but clearly some changes made for maximizing the electric drive system.

 

[El Kabong]

Very nice.  Better than the concept version!

I agree with you on this. Neither one is offensive to my eyes but I prefer the styling cues on he production one. Even the floating roof pillar out back looks ok, sorta.

[ocnblu]

That C-pillar is the only area that irks me a little bit.  The concept used the derivative, ubiquitous triangular quarter glass that is on seemingly EVERY CUV out there, where the production version has the MINI (coupe)/Datsun "floating roof".  Overall though, I think it's pretty handsome in a class of complete duds.

[El Kabong]

It takes the bottom end of the market away from Tesla. That's pretty significant.

[Suaviloquent]

Well, it's certainly function over form.

 

I don't really like the way it looks, and I'll bunch it with other vehicles like the new Prius and Nissan Leaf for looking dopey.

 

What matters most is the price and performance of intended function, if they deliver that, should be okay.

[El Kabong]

They claim a 320km range. That's roughly Toronto to Niagara Falls and back on a charge, or more realistically all the 905-region driving per day you can stand.

[balthazar]

I for one found the concept palatable, visually, but the production car; not. I liked the stubbier nose & bigger wheels on the concept.

And I'm already sick of the 'split C-pillar' trick.

[El Kabong]

The upswept C-pillar on the concept was already done to death.

[Suaviloquent]

The upswept C-pillar on the concept was already done to death.

 

 

But they replaced it with something even worse:

 

The dreaded floating roof. Actually, it's not that either look bad.

 

But I find it extremely unconvincing that this is special among all the dopey looking economy-minded automobiles used to extract the very last of the juice that powers them. Whether it be gas or a flow of electrons, it's just another shapeless blob.

 

Right now the technology just isn't to the capability where design is very flexible, where you can have 200 mile range and a succulent exterior for that price

 

It is what it is, and it isn't anything more.

[El Kabong]

The selling point is the tech, not the styling. It's a box that runs on electrons. Even the Tesla is a hatchback. If you want a truly good-looking car with electric motors then you're stuck with a used Fisker or an ELR.

[Suaviloquent]

The selling point is the tech, not the styling. It's a box that runs on electrons. Even the Tesla is a hatchback. If you want a truly good-looking car with electric motors then you're stuck with a used Fisker or an ELR.

 

That's exactly what I mean. Styling doesn't matter. 

 

The only thing to gush over how is long this EV has an advantage in range and price. My guess, not long at all. In fact, irrelevant, because it'll be going against more competitors that have more well-known EVs.

 

Nissan showed their concept, and they've got a pretty solid EV that's going to launch, probably in a 3-4 month timeframe of this.

 

In any case, other brands are more well-know for EVs, while Chevy is absolutely known for the Volt. Hopefully that same instant recognition rubs off onto it. 

[regfootball]

cars like this should go over well in California.  Tesla will be out of the business before 10 years.  This is GM's toe in the door to crack it open and lead EV's.

speaking of 'floating roofs'  GM already dun that.  So did Ford Probe. and Intrepid

 

Still love the cutlass BTW, the W body cutlass and Grand Prix were great designs that still look modern

 

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2015 by regfootball

[regfootball]

It appears to be a tall wagon with a mix of Volt and Cruze styling cues. And, of course, that 200 mile battery range. Pretty neat stuff.

More at the link:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/spied-production-chevrolet-bolt-caught-completely-undisguised/

by the way it says in that article, photo by brian williams.....

 

does that mean he could say

 

"i was there"

 

[smk4565]

Looks like an uglier version of the BMW i3.  I don't get why if you have an electric car and don't have the styling limitations of arranging the shape of the car around the engine, do these designers still come up with ugly cars.  The Model S is the only good looking electric car on the market, no wonder none of them sell.

[Suaviloquent]

Why can't Tesla and GM coexist?

 

Does it always have to be one or the other?

[El Kabong]

It can definitely be both of them.

But Tesla's entire reason to exist is electric. And they need profits because they ARE burning through cash pretty quickly. To have larger, established automakers introduce serious products into a segment you are going to need sooner or later is an effective power play.

It appears to be a tall wagon with a mix of Volt and Cruze styling cues. And, of course, that 200 mile battery range. Pretty neat stuff.

More at the link:http://www.motortrend.com/news/spied-production-chevrolet-bolt-caught-completely-undisguised/

by the way it says in that article, photo by brian williams.....

 

does that mean he could say

 

"i was there"

 

You could. And it would be your allotted daily joke

[Suaviloquent]

They're burning cash because they're doing quite a few goodwill building activities for customers.

 

They're giving you way more than just what the purchase price nets, with the free superchargers, and other nicities...some of which they are reneging on in the pursuit of profitability.

 

The thing is, there are enough people in the world that now aspire to own Teslas.

 

Make no mistake, Tesla will extract as much money as they can from the Model X. Squeeze the margins.

 

They're more viable in terms of Electric vehicle sales than anyone else either way. It's not like this vehicle is going to be profitable. It won't be be.

 

It exists first to fulfill a government mandate, and second to lead the affordable segment, for however many precious days it can. Which aren't a lot by the way.

[El Kabong]

If Tesla needs to build infrastructure for their cars then it's just another expense they need to factor in. A seven-seater with a coupe profile pretty much advertises its long-haul aspirations. The Bolt is more configured as an urban people-mover, so less need for fast charging.

But between Chevy (and, yes, Nissan) staking out the affordable end and the Gernans making noise up high, Tesla will definitely be feeling the heat.

[ccap41]

I think it looks better than the concept. Not too bad looking if a car for a function over form vehicle. I'm quite intrigued to read more on this when the magazines get to drive them some more. I'd actually really like Car and Driver to get one for a year because the winter months with zero-sub zero temperatures are what worry me about full EV cars. What kind of range do you lose when you have to defrost a car and the batteries are at those temps.

[balthazar]

speaking of 'floating roofs'  GM already dun that.  

 

 

 

[Suaviloquent]

I think people are really underestimating Tesla's brand recognition and loyalty. No one has yet to renege on the 30,000 Model X vehicles that were pre-ordered.

 

And the best part about Tesla is that they use conventional battery technology. Their pancake battery uses cells very similar in chemistry and configuration to ones found in consumer electronics. 

 

Tesla isn't scared of the Germans. They've already got Insane mode to dish out the pain. 

 

What's great about Tesla, is that they are the only company that has taken on the issue of charging infrastructure head-on. Even if it ups the ante, it's brilliant compared to anything that anyone else has to offer.

 

They're ahead in vehicle execution, they've got the infrastructure and they are expanding manufacturing capability. There's not much anyone else has done that comes even close to Tesla's effort to date.

[El Kabong]

Their interiors are pretty crap for the price. And their prices are still too high.

The celebrity tree-hugger demographic will only carry them so far. They need to get better at building CARS, as opposed to being an electric car maker. I do think it's possible for them to do it still, but pre-deposits aren't really worth a lot these days (or any days really. See also: Jag XJ220).

All it would take is for Cadillac or Benz to do an electric S-Class or Omega (or an E-Tron Audi for that matter) and Elon would be in a bind.

[El Kabong]

...aaaaand just like that, it begins:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/its-on-like-elon-porsches-mission-e-electric-sedan-headed-to-production/

[Suaviloquent]

Celebrity tree-huggers?

 

How contrived can that notion get?

 

If GM wasn't scared of Tesla, they wouldn't be the at the forefront to ensure that Tesla can't sell vehicles in Michigan. GM's dream of course would be to restrict capitalism at play and make sure Tesla can't sell anywhere.

 

Those are facts.

 

And Tesla's factories are working full-tilt.

 

I agree though, their interior does have get better, but as long they're so dominant and they can deploy high-tech like self-driving cars before anyone else, people can forgive minor shortcomings. Why do you think they are too expensive?

 

They give you better than super-car acceleration; they've got the hands down of the best interior touchscreen setups. It's the best car period for some. The appetite for Tesla, especially Model X is insatiable.

 

They're the only luxury electric vehicle manufacturer as well. No one else can claim anything of that sort either.

 

The big picture is that if it were so easy to build electric vehicles, Tesla would have been crushed long ago. 

 

Why hasn't one materialized? It's been 3 years. Nothing yet to comes even close.

 

I'm not going to go by Porsche coming out with some sedan with dated specs quoted from a concept. Especially how inefficient German engineering is in reality.

 

And Cadillac's recent failure, the ELR points to how hard to would be for Cadillac to charge prices anywhere close to how much fully loaded Model S costs.

 

All Tesla has to do is to make sure that the Model 3 doesn't look like a lame duck that every other electric car looks like. Tesla will force others to compete against them, not the other way around.

[El Kabong]

Not a chance, man. GM and the Germans have money to burn. Elon's already burnt money.

[Suaviloquent]

Yup Porsche has announced a car that will debut before 2020.

 

It's 2015 now.

 

Tesla is laughing at anyone being a booster for Porsche. Oh an I accidentally up-voted your post. Take it as a freebie.

[El Kabong]

S'all good man.

Look: you're the money guy. Can you tell me that Tesla can turn an honest profit in time to do a Gen 2 Model S (2020?). Or that the Bolt won't hurt any expansion plans they have?

[Suaviloquent]

Oh, I'm not the money guy, I'm just the person who invariably mentions the double-edge sword of revenue...unit volume and unit price...

 

Ahh, see the thing is I've often enough mentioned that Tesla may not break a profit at all for a few years to come. No one will, with an extreme change in the market.

 

The thing is investors are not cashing out; they're going to wait and see the plan unfold.

 

But they're going to remain the best when it comes to electric vehicles, and they're going to be the closest to being viable.

 

If they set aside building infrastructure they'd be making profit easily. Look at their cash flow. Immense in-flows and crazy out-flows. It's all a policy decision.

 

I'm not making this a Tesla thread. Let the cards fall.

 

But don't be naive to up-sell GM when their supposed lead in the mass segment is going to be extremely short-lived.

[surreal1272]

Not a chance, man. GM and the Germans have money to burn. Elon's already burnt money.

Right now, one rather large German company is too busy burning diesel money to deal with electric tech.

[oldshurst442]

I do very much prefer the Volt. In my neighborhood, Iv already spotted a dozen of them. Id say Chevy will have a huuuuge success on their. hands with the Volt 

The 2nd gen Volt is a looker. I don't really like the Bolt's looks, but then again, I dont really like small cars to begin with. If I was honest about it, Id say the Bolt looks as good as any sub compact out there... 

And if I was honest about the Bolt, seeing as how the 1st generartion Volt was a success, and seeing as how the 2nd generation Volt is on its way to greatness itself, Id say the Bolt will have its fair share of fans too...and if I was honest about this whole thing with Tesla, Id say that Tesla has its hands full with GM...

 

I dont think Porsche or BMW or even Mercedes Benz  will give Tesla a hard time...the Model S has made its name and people look to it....

 

Where I see a problem for Tesla is at the bottom end of the price range. I see Chevrolet dominating the loyalty with the electrics in the low price tag range as opposed to what Telsa has done with the high end. Chevrolet has done a very nice job with both generations of Volt and will only strengthen that loyalty with the Bolt. Chevrolet has managed to put a kink in Prius...

And I see Audi with that Electric SUV of theirs putting down the hurt on Tesla in the SUV department. The Model X might have 30 000 units on reserve, but it looks awkward, the Audi looks sexy and sublime....much like the Model S...

 

The Fisker Karma in my honest opinion is the sexiest electric car...hell, its the sexiest automobile in whatever motor vehicle  category you want to put it in since the 2000s, OK, even further, since the 1990s...80s...

 

The BMW i8 is also very sexy...but its  coupe....the Model S is a sedan....coupes dont sell well since the 1990s...

M-Bs are a hit or a miss...

 

The Porsche looks good, but its coming out in 2020...Im pretty sure the Model S will get a refresh by then...

[ocnblu]

This thread has veered seriously off-topic.  Who the hell cares about Tesla?

[oldshurst442]

Blu...we get it...you hate Tesla...but dude...WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, TESLA IS THE CAR COMPANY THAT IS THE MEASURE...THE BENCHMARK IF YOU WILL...OF ALL CARS ELECTRIC...

 

 

The reason why Tesla is mentioned in a Bolt tnread, its because Tesla sells MORE EVs than GM...and Tesla is said to be having a low priced EV in the works, in the Volts and Bolts price range, and since Tesal sells more electrics than GM...its only logical that Tesla is mentioned...

 

(you lucky Im on my stupid tablet...because this is where Id be -postin' a 'DEAL WITH IT' gif)

 

 

I really dont get this obsessive hatred one has for a car company...its as annoying as blind fanboyism...only in reverse...

 

Sure, I dont like BMW all that much...I do give the devil its due with BMW....therefore, this really perplexes me...

 

HELP ME OB1 KENOBI, YOU'RE MY ONLY HOPE!!!

[El Kabong]

I don't hate Tesla. But I'm a realist

[oldshurst442]

Ill be honest, Im infatuated with Tesla as we speak. My partner ordered a red Model S P85D a few weeks back and I think he will be getting it on Monday...

Im so excited for him, I may have made him into a car guy.  He even chose it red.

 

Also, If I was buying a SEDAN in the 100 000 dollar (Canadian) range, there are not many cars that I lust for in that price range...its funny huh?

I like a CTS-V, but its too boy racer....

I prefer the CTS-V sport, but no V8...

We skip M-B all together, as with BMW and Audi...but wait...

There is the M-B 63 CLS  AMG and the BMW M6 Grand Coupe that I really really LOVE.

We add the Charger Hellcat to the list of three.

The 4rth would be the Model S P90 or P85D...

 

So, it may look like Im a tad zealous in defending Tesla, but in reality, its because Tesla has done a fantastic job with the Model S that I find it hard to swallow the amount of hatred surrounding it....

Let us remember that the Model S really is a first for Tesla concerning car manufacturing. The roadster is just an engine swap type deal...

Id say that Tesla pretty much got it right the first time around...is it a perfect car?

Nope. its not.

But in the 130 year history of the automobile, has there been a 100% perfect and flawless car ever produced?

 

There have been cars that may have come close to that perfection, but there have been many many failures, and yet, we seem to diss on a game changer... because we dont like the status quo being challenged...

Because that is how I see this hatred with Tesla...

[Suaviloquent]

See, lookit here.

 

Long established automakers has been trumped by a newcomer that owns the top-end.

 

Very much Tesla's model 3 will not be positioned as the same kind of EV that the Bolt is.

 

The Model 3 will be the 3 series of electric cars.

 

It'll start at $35k or so, but build to $50-60k as well.

 

Tesla is brilliant in letting the established players scuffle for a little more unit sales and no profit.

 

Being a realist, you have to realize, this thing looks just as frumpy as any electric toad built by anyone else. But somehow exterior designs mistakes made here are forgiven because it's a GM product.

 

Given the choice, would you buy this or the Model 3? Now ask this question to anyone looking to buy EV, and then realize that Tesla is not afraid,

 

They would not be here, if they didn't realize some automakers would catch on and try to replicate their success.

This thread has veered seriously off-topic.  Who the hell cares about Tesla?

 

Well you can ask the question to the OP of the thread as to why he had to include Tesla.

[Drew Dowdell]

This will be priced differently than a Tesla, so the only comparison is really the range.  Comparing the Bolt to the Model 3 is like comparing a Focus Titanium to a Mercedes CLA... yes they're both compact sedans, but that is about the extent of the overlap.   I suspect the Model 3 will be closer to $39,995 by the time it's actually available for sale (and not with that range at that price).

[balthazar]

No one has yet to renege on the 30,000 Model X vehicles that were pre-ordered.

 

>>"According to Tesla Motors Club estimations, as of August 31st, Tesla had around 27,000 Model X reservations.

There could be over 31,000 reservations, but for various reasons it seems that over 4,000 Model X reservation holders cancelled…"

[El Kabong]

Ok, I'm quite happy to include or exclude Tesla as you all wish.

But in the immortal words of Axl Rose, I'm not the only one with whom those feelings I share:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a26859/bob-lutz-tesla/

[daves87rs]

It takes the bottom end of the market away from Tesla. That's pretty significant.

 

 

+1

 

 

Should get quite interesting now....

[regfootball]

Their interiors are pretty crap for the price. And their prices are still too high.

The celebrity tree-hugger demographic will only carry them so far. They need to get better at building CARS, as opposed to being an electric car maker. I do think it's possible for them to do it still, but pre-deposits aren't really worth a lot these days (or any days really. See also: Jag XJ220).

All it would take is for Cadillac or Benz to do an electric S-Class or Omega (or an E-Tron Audi for that matter) and Elon would be in a bind.

^^^^^ by now they should have moved on from that little starter clique

[El Kabong]

I believe the plucky independent is about to see the establishment steal all its thunder. Unless Musk shuts down all his other ventures or allies himself with a partner he's pooched-he just is. He has no proprietary tech to set him apart, his cars are remarkably good first efforts but still lacking as cars, and he's got distractions both legit (infrastructure) and self-inflicted (trying to bypass the franchise model for dealerships). He's far surpassed the likes of Preston Tucker and John DeLorean, but it's hard to see him going a lot farther as is.

[regfootball]

until tesla can sell 250,000 cars at 35,000 MSRP they are irrelevant.

 

they'll get beat in the higher price ranges no matter what they do.  Give it time.

 

Give them credit for making electric relevant.  They will be a footnote.

 

Standardizing electrics and developing an infrastructure will require nations and all manufacturers.  Tesla cannot do that itself, but they can innovate.

 

End game just won't be kind to them.  Kit cars never make the big time.  Some of their tech will survive.

 

Go Volt / Bolt....those two models could have the chance to remake GM's relevance on the world stage, and return them to leaders....IF THEY BUILD OFF OF IT.  While VW is beaten from the diesel scandal, GM could use that as a defining moment to go ape on electric, GM just needs to make one of their electrics family sized, next gen Equinox with a volt powertrain would change the game

Edited December 5, 2015 by regfootball

[ocnblu]

I cannot stand the arrogance of Toyota (tangent) and I cannot stand the arrogance of Elon Musk.  His arrogance and dismissive attitude toward long established automotive entities absolutely breaks any hope at a deal with me.  It's not even the fact that electric cars don't excite me, it is one man's attitude that ruins it.

 

There is a possibility, however remote, I could see myself in a Bolt... because it's humble right down to its brilliantly familiar and friendly name, and I am sure it will get the job done without self-aggrandizing, and it's a tall hatch, which is nothing if not practical and versatile.

Edited December 5, 2015 by ocnblu

[oldshurst442]

You see. Henri Ford was arrogant too...

 

They could have any colour they want, so long that its black....

 

He didnt really say that in that context, but he was an arrogant business man just the same...

 

 

GM....was pretty darned arrogant by the time the 1970s rolled on by....and by the 1980s and 1990...more arrogant than Toyota will ever be...

 

 

Its nice to pick and choose who we hate, but at least, let us be consistent with our hatred...

 

Good and evil....it depends in what point of view you are looking at...

 

In my opinion, its the Jedi that are evil as once said by Annakin just before he turned to the dark side...

[ocnblu]

You are correct about your tablet. 

[El Kabong]

Henry Ford wasn't arrogant so much as he was a pioneer-nobody had ever combined ideas like he did with such success. He was a visionary who eventually became a prisoner of his vision, both with product (his obsession with the Model T allowed GM's brand strategy to overtake him in the 20s and never look back) and with business (running roughshod over Edsel).

Elon Musk is a compelling character. But he's trying to change the automotive world, not create it.

[G. David Felt]

I cannot stand the arrogance of Toyota (tangent) and I cannot stand the arrogance of Elon Musk.  His arrogance and dismissive attitude toward long established automotive entities absolutely breaks any hope at a deal with me.  It's not even the fact that electric cars don't excite me, it is one man's attitude that ruins it.

 

There is a possibility, however remote, I could see myself in a Bolt... because it's humble right down to its brilliantly familiar and friendly name, and I am sure it will get the job done without self-aggrandizing, and it's a tall hatch, which is nothing if not practical and versatile.

Hugs to you for seeing the value in the Bolt. Plus who would not enjoy paying about $50 a month to power their auto compared to gas prices.

 

Electricity especially of green sources will be the new oil barrons.

[G. David Felt]

Go Volt / Bolt....those two models could have the chance to remake GM's relevance on the world stage, and return them to leaders....IF THEY BUILD OFF OF IT.  While VW is beaten from the diesel scandal, GM could use that as a defining moment to go ape on electric, GM just needs to make one of their electrics family sized, next gen Equinox with a volt powertrain would change the game

 

I believe GM should take their mid size trucks and have a VOLT power train also. This would be a big hit with gov agencies that need green trucks to work around the city, county, etc. VOLT power train I believe would serve this well. You could have a bigger battery pack under the bed give the truck a 200 mile range and it would be a big hit.