Motor Trend Head2Head: GT350R vs. Z/28

Frisky Dingo · November 30, 2015

I enjoy talking extreme car smack like the rest of you, and please don’t bore us with claims you don’t. This is why most of you are here, repeatedly. And had the R been beat by the Z, and regardless of how close, this thread would be twice as long by now with the same cast of characters doing what they do. And all of you know this.

Mustang got the win over the CURRENT Camaro being sold and profited from.

Best part is, Mustang owners have another $10G’s to play with to squeeze even more performance out of where Ford left off.

And that could buy quite a bit of performance btw.

So if GM follows up with something one day, we will have to then compare it to what Ford is selling at that time as well.

I enjoy discussing cars. Not talking smack. I already said I like the Shelby more, what more do you want? That doesn't change the fact that is a virtual guarantee that GM's competitor to the Shelby will surpass it, nor that the Z/28 is CHEAPER to buy, not more.

ccap41 · November 30, 2015

Throw the 0-60 times out the window, I can promise you the Z/28 feels stronger out on the street.

Again, cost-no-object, I'd take the Shelby, but it's a narrow victory for it, and I think whatever GM has coming will easily surpass it.

This is what you said. I guess when you said "out on the street" you don't mean dipping into the throttle too much. When you say 0-60 and street that sounds like a sprint. I brought up 1/4 mile as a finite finish line as the streets don't have a finish line.

Yes, the Z has more bottom end, by a lot. But in any race, even 0-60, you only utilize that for a very short period in 1st gear only. Daily driving or cruising, definitely more of a Z thing than an R thing. $h!tin' n gettin' is slightly more R than Z.

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

I enjoy talking extreme car smack like the rest of you, and please don’t bore us with claims you don’t. This is why most of you are here, repeatedly. And had the R been beat by the Z, and regardless of how close, this thread would be twice as long by now with the same cast of characters doing what they do. And all of you know this.

Mustang got the win over the CURRENT Camaro being sold and profited from.

Best part is, Mustang owners have another $10G’s to play with to squeeze even more performance out of where Ford left off.

And that could buy quite a bit of performance btw.

So if GM follows up with something one day, we will have to then compare it to what Ford is selling at that time as well.

This this this.

And with GM having to knock off 20k to move Z/28's off the lots, the bean counters may think twice about making another Z/28. ( Ford had no issues moving the Boss 302's - used ones are going for a premium.)

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=358117636

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

I enjoy talking extreme car smack like the rest of you, and please don’t bore us with claims you don’t. This is why most of you are here, repeatedly. And had the R been beat by the Z, and regardless of how close, this thread would be twice as long by now with the same cast of characters doing what they do. And all of you know this.

Mustang got the win over the CURRENT Camaro being sold and profited from.

Best part is, Mustang owners have another $10G’s to play with to squeeze even more performance out of where Ford left off.

And that could buy quite a bit of performance btw.

So if GM follows up with something one day, we will have to then compare it to what Ford is selling at that time as well.

This this this.

And with GM having to knock off 20k to move Z/28's off the lots, the bean counters may think twice about making another Z/28. ( Ford had no issues moving the Boss 302's - used ones are going for a premium.)

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=358117636

Okay, so I'm going to be a liar this one time because your post is just out in deep left field here. Show us where Chevrolet is offering $20K off of a NEW no longer in production Z28. Let me help you with that.

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-z28-track-car.html

As a matter of fact, here is the current offer on the Z28.

"Finance

0% APR for 72 months

Plus

$1,000 Purchase Bonus Cash"

For the record, with a current price of $72K, I am pretty sure it never was $92K and if you are referring to what Dingo said a few days ago, then you clearly were not paying attention to what he said.

Now, regarding your 302 claim, I guess it's real easy to make your claim when you pick the highest priced one by a private seller (never mind the one 5,000 miles on it hence the stupid price). Now here is one from a dealer with average miles.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=85345&endYear=2016&modelCode1=MUST&showcaseOwnerId=73009&startYear=1981&makeCode1=FORD&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&searchRadius=50&showcaseListingId=410630270&trim1=MUST%7CBoss+302&mmt=%5BFORD%5BMUST%5BMUST%257CBoss%2B302%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=412060730&Log=0

Edited November 30, 2015 by surreal1272

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

I enjoy talking extreme car smack like the rest of you, and please don’t bore us with claims you don’t. This is why most of you are here, repeatedly. And had the R been beat by the Z, and regardless of how close, this thread would be twice as long by now with the same cast of characters doing what they do. And all of you know this.

Mustang got the win over the CURRENT Camaro being sold and profited from.

Best part is, Mustang owners have another $10G’s to play with to squeeze even more performance out of where Ford left off.

And that could buy quite a bit of performance btw.

So if GM follows up with something one day, we will have to then compare it to what Ford is selling at that time as well.

This this this.

And with GM having to knock off 20k to move Z/28's off the lots, the bean counters may think twice about making another Z/28. ( Ford had no issues moving the Boss 302's - used ones are going for a premium.)

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=358117636

Okay, so I'm going to be a liar this one time because your post is just out in deep left field here. Show us where Chevrolet is offering $20K off of a NEW no longer in production Z28. Let me help you with that.

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-z28-track-car.html

As a matter of fact, here is the current offer on the Z28.

"Finance

0% APR for 72 months

Plus

$1,000 Purchase Bonus Cash"

For the record, with a current price of $72K, I am pretty sure it never was $92K and if you are referring to what Dingo said a few days ago, then you clearly were not paying attention to what he said.

Now, regarding your 302 claim, I guess it's real easy to make your claim when you pick the highest priced one by a private seller (never mind the one 5,000 miles on it hence the stupid price). Now here is one from a dealer with average miles.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=85345&endYear=2016&modelCode1=MUST&showcaseOwnerId=73009&startYear=1981&makeCode1=FORD&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&searchRadius=50&showcaseListingId=410630270&trim1=MUST%7CBoss+302&mmt=%5BFORD%5BMUST%5BMUST%257CBoss%2B302%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=412060730&Log=0

We have been told over and over again, that the Z/28 is in the low/mid 50k's...

Thats why I said knock 20k off... 72k-20k = low/mid 50k....

Seems you have not been paying attention.

EDIT: make that 25k off

http://jalopnik.com/on-black-friday-go-buy-yourself-a-camaro-z-28-with-a-r-1744593201

Edited November 30, 2015 by FordCosworth

November 30, 2015

Here is a great video of the GT350 feeling 'soft' on the low end. LOL

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

I enjoy talking extreme car smack like the rest of you, and please don’t bore us with claims you don’t. This is why most of you are here, repeatedly. And had the R been beat by the Z, and regardless of how close, this thread would be twice as long by now with the same cast of characters doing what they do. And all of you know this.

Mustang got the win over the CURRENT Camaro being sold and profited from.

Best part is, Mustang owners have another $10G’s to play with to squeeze even more performance out of where Ford left off.

And that could buy quite a bit of performance btw.

So if GM follows up with something one day, we will have to then compare it to what Ford is selling at that time as well.

This this this.

And with GM having to knock off 20k to move Z/28's off the lots, the bean counters may think twice about making another Z/28. ( Ford had no issues moving the Boss 302's - used ones are going for a premium.)

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=358117636

Okay, so I'm going to be a liar this one time because your post is just out in deep left field here. Show us where Chevrolet is offering $20K off of a NEW no longer in production Z28. Let me help you with that.

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-z28-track-car.html

As a matter of fact, here is the current offer on the Z28.

"Finance

0% APR for 72 months

Plus

$1,000 Purchase Bonus Cash"

For the record, with a current price of $72K, I am pretty sure it never was $92K and if you are referring to what Dingo said a few days ago, then you clearly were not paying attention to what he said.

Now, regarding your 302 claim, I guess it's real easy to make your claim when you pick the highest priced one by a private seller (never mind the one 5,000 miles on it hence the stupid price). Now here is one from a dealer with average miles.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=85345&endYear=2016&modelCode1=MUST&showcaseOwnerId=73009&startYear=1981&makeCode1=FORD&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&searchRadius=50&showcaseListingId=410630270&trim1=MUST%7CBoss+302&mmt=%5BFORD%5BMUST%5BMUST%257CBoss%2B302%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=412060730&Log=0

We have been told over and over again, that the Z/28 is in the low/mid 50k's...

Thats why I said knock 20k off... 72k-20k = low/mid 50k....

Seems you have not been paying attention.

So you did not pay attention to the fact that he said that you can get a USED one for $50-55K. There is a big difference there having known that ONE fact. Now, having said that, the cheapest USED Z/28 in my area is $61K with two others fetching $67K and $70K respectively, so again I say, you are the one that needs to pay attention to what is being said.

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

I enjoy talking extreme car smack like the rest of you, and please don’t bore us with claims you don’t. This is why most of you are here, repeatedly. And had the R been beat by the Z, and regardless of how close, this thread would be twice as long by now with the same cast of characters doing what they do. And all of you know this.

Mustang got the win over the CURRENT Camaro being sold and profited from.

Best part is, Mustang owners have another $10G’s to play with to squeeze even more performance out of where Ford left off.

And that could buy quite a bit of performance btw.

So if GM follows up with something one day, we will have to then compare it to what Ford is selling at that time as well.

This this this.

And with GM having to knock off 20k to move Z/28's off the lots, the bean counters may think twice about making another Z/28. ( Ford had no issues moving the Boss 302's - used ones are going for a premium.)

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=358117636

Okay, so I'm going to be a liar this one time because your post is just out in deep left field here. Show us where Chevrolet is offering $20K off of a NEW no longer in production Z28. Let me help you with that.

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-z28-track-car.html

As a matter of fact, here is the current offer on the Z28.

"Finance

0% APR for 72 months

Plus

$1,000 Purchase Bonus Cash"

For the record, with a current price of $72K, I am pretty sure it never was $92K and if you are referring to what Dingo said a few days ago, then you clearly were not paying attention to what he said.

Now, regarding your 302 claim, I guess it's real easy to make your claim when you pick the highest priced one by a private seller (never mind the one 5,000 miles on it hence the stupid price). Now here is one from a dealer with average miles.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=85345&endYear=2016&modelCode1=MUST&showcaseOwnerId=73009&startYear=1981&makeCode1=FORD&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&searchRadius=50&showcaseListingId=410630270&trim1=MUST%7CBoss+302&mmt=%5BFORD%5BMUST%5BMUST%257CBoss%2B302%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=412060730&Log=0

We have been told over and over again, that the Z/28 is in the low/mid 50k's...

Thats why I said knock 20k off... 72k-20k = low/mid 50k....

Seems you have not been paying attention.

So you did not pay attention to the fact that he said that you can get a USED one for $50-55K. There is a big difference there having known that ONE fact. Now, having said that, the cheapest USED Z/28 in my area is $61K with two others fetching $67K and $70K respectively, so again I say, you are the one that needs to pay attention to what is being said.

Take a look at the link I added.

http://jalopnik.com/on-black-friday-go-buy-yourself-a-camaro-z-28-with-a-r-1744593201

And I do not recall Frisky saying " used " either. Can you link me to it?

Edited November 30, 2015 by FordCosworth

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

I did and it's a $52K 302 with only 5K miles. Now show me where a Z/28, much less a new one, is selling for the price you claim. Back up what you THINK Frisky said and find me this mythical $50K NEW Z/28 or just drop it. Honestly, it is that simple because all you want to do is the same crap you do at MT and argue semantics. Show me the Z/28 for that price. It's that simple.

ccap41 · November 30, 2015

http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2015-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-t54892#listing=127987798

http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2015-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-t54892#listing=101678439

This is a stupid argument at this point...

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

I did and it's a $52K 302 with only 5K miles. Now show me where a Z/28, much less a new one, is selling for the price you claim. Back up what you THINK Frisky said and find me this mythical $50K NEW Z/28 or just drop it. Honestly, it is that simple because all you want to do is the same crap you do at MT and argue semantics. Show me the Z/28 for that price. It's that simple.

Why do you skip over the jalopnik link that I've posted that shows BRAND NEW Z/28's for low mid 50k?

Frisky Dingo · November 30, 2015

You can buy a new Z for low 50's if it's a 20% of unit.

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2015-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-t54892#listing=127987798

http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2015-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-t54892#listing=101678439

This is a stupid argument at this point...

Thank you. And yes. Stupid argument. I've posted, and you also, evidence of BRAND NEW mid 50k Z/28's

Not sure why he's arguing otherwise.

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

I did and it's a $52K 302 with only 5K miles. Now show me where a Z/28, much less a new one, is selling for the price you claim. Back up what you THINK Frisky said and find me this mythical $50K NEW Z/28 or just drop it. Honestly, it is that simple because all you want to do is the same crap you do at MT and argue semantics. Show me the Z/28 for that price. It's that simple.

I now wait for your apology for the lashing out at me.

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

Okay, so I'm going to be a liar this one time because your post is just out in deep left field here. Show us where Chevrolet is offering $20K off of a NEW no longer in production Z28. Let me help you with that.

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-z28-track-car.html

As a matter of fact, here is the current offer on the Z28.

"Finance

0% APR for 72 months

Plus

$1,000 Purchase Bonus Cash"

For the record, with a current price of $72K, I am pretty sure it never was $92K and if you are referring to what Dingo said a few days ago, then you clearly were not paying attention to what he said.

Now, regarding your 302 claim, I guess it's real easy to make your claim when you pick the highest priced one by a private seller (never mind the one 5,000 miles on it hence the stupid price). Now here is one from a dealer with average miles.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=85345&endYear=2016&modelCode1=MUST&showcaseOwnerId=73009&startYear=1981&makeCode1=FORD&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&searchRadius=50&showcaseListingId=410630270&trim1=MUST%7CBoss+302&mmt=%5BFORD%5BMUST%5BMUST%257CBoss%2B302%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=412060730&Log=0

We have been told over and over again, that the Z/28 is in the low/mid 50k's...

Thats why I said knock 20k off... 72k-20k = low/mid 50k....

Seems you have not been paying attention.

Take a look at the link I added.

http://jalopnik.com/on-black-friday-go-buy-yourself-a-camaro-z-28-with-a-r-1744593201

And I do not recall Frisky saying " used " either. Can you link me to it?

That link was not there the first time. Having looked at the updated link, yes I can see that there are some for that price. You were right but if you are expecting an apology, you are barking up the wrong tree because you have not earned an apology and will never get one from me. You know why if you search hard enough. BTW, it also doesn't change the fact that you cherry picked the 302 price as well when there are plenty for a far lower price than $52K. That is all.

Now excuse me for not being impressed by a huge mark down of an OUTGOING platform on an OUTGOING car.

You can buy a new Z for low 50's if it's a 20% of unit.

What do you mean by if it's a 20% of unit?

Edited November 30, 2015 by surreal1272

November 30, 2015

Wow, $20,000 cash on the hood to move the Z.

That helps to nearly price it in line with what it is, but honestly, it is still not special enough. Does not stir my soul like the devilish voodoo engine. Even the name is cool. And I think I know which one will retain is value better in 5 years or so when the time comes to sell.

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

Wow, $20,000 cash on the hood to move the Z.

That helps to nearly price it in line with what it is, but honestly, it is still not special enough. Does not stir my soul like the devilish voodoo engine. Even the name is cool. And I think I know which one will retain is value better in 5 years or so when the time comes to sell.

20k on the hood is ridiculous on a limited HiPo special edition car.

Without a doubt if a certain other company did that with one of their limited HiPo special edition car, even one at the end of its cycle, we'd never hear the end of it.

Edited November 30, 2015 by FordCosworth

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

Wow, $20,000 cash on the hood to move the Z.

That helps to nearly price it in line with what it is, but honestly, it is still not special enough. Does not stir my soul like the devilish voodoo engine. Even the name is cool. And I think I know which one will retain is value better in 5 years or so when the time comes to sell.

20k on the hood is ridiculous on a limited HiPo special edition car.

Without a doubt if a certain other company did that with one of their limited HiPo special edition car, even one at the end of its cycle, we'd never hear the end of it.

Either flooded the niche market or over priced.

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

Thought I'd share this.

I emailed Megan Stewart - she worked on the H2H video. There is a direct link to her on M/T's GT350R vs Z/28 page

" Hi,

I have a question. And maybe you could look into or have the answer.

I have a bet with my buddy on which car hit 0-60mph in 3.9seconds ( I picked the GT350R ) and which hit in 4.0seconds. It’s a bit hard to tell in the video – II picked GT350 because it was always ahead and when the time 3.9seconds pooped up on screen, the camera panned to the Shelby etc . "

Her reply was...

Hi XXXX,

You’re right. The Mustang was the faster of the two. The camera work was weird for that section of the video.

- Megan

Drew Dowdell · November 30, 2015

It's actually a mostly brand-wide discount. It could be 20% off a malibu or camaro.

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

Here's the part where the hypocrisy gets exposed. For pages upon pages (up until the last two), at least one poster has gone on and on about the Z28 being beaten by a car that is $10K cheaper (which wasn't correct to begin with but that's beside the point). In fact one harped on and on asking the following,

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

Now that the remaining Z28s are considerably cheaper, what is their argument?

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

Why would anyone have to ask the people who did the test? The video clearly shows the GT350R at 3.9 and the Z28 at 4.0. Not really a big deal though, going by the logic used by some when the SS beat the GT by 4/10ths of second going 0-60. Again, this is not surprising given the fact that we have a new model against an outgoing model (on an older heavier platform). Now what happens when that Z/28 goes to the much lighter Alpha platform? That is what everyone who is not a blind fanboy wants to see (and by "blind fanboy" I mean both brands before some here get their knickers in a knot).

Edited November 30, 2015 by surreal1272

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

Why would anyone have to ask the people who did the test? The video clearly show the GT350R at 3.9 and the Z28 at 4.0. Not really a big deal though, going by the logic used by some when the SS dusted the GT by 4/10ths of second going 0-60. Again, this is not surprising given the fact that we have a new model against an outgoing model (on an older heavier platform). Now what happens when that Z/28 goes to the much lighter Alpha platform? That is what everyone who is not a blind fanboy wants to see (and by "blind fanboy" I mean both brands before some here get their knickers in a knot).

Maybe read what El Kabong said. He assured all it was the Camaro that was quicker.

He is even saying so on M/T comment section.

So I went straight to the source.

Got a problem with it?

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

Why would anyone have to ask the people who did the test? The video clearly show the GT350R at 3.9 and the Z28 at 4.0. Not really a big deal though, going by the logic used by some when the SS dusted the GT by 4/10ths of second going 0-60. Again, this is not surprising given the fact that we have a new model against an outgoing model (on an older heavier platform). Now what happens when that Z/28 goes to the much lighter Alpha platform? That is what everyone who is not a blind fanboy wants to see (and by "blind fanboy" I mean both brands before some here get their knickers in a knot).

Maybe read what El Kabong said. He assured all it was the Camaro that was quicker.

He is even saying so on M/T comment section.

So I went straight to the source.

Got a problem with it?

Again, get your knickers out of a bunch. In case you missed it, I agreed with your claim about the 0-60 but it was clear as day on that video what it was and didn't require the lengths you went to in order to prove Bong wrong. All you were doing there was instigating another never ending argument about absolutely nothing.

Again, in case you are not getting the gist and just want to continue to argue and insult me, Bong is wrong here.

Edited November 30, 2015 by surreal1272

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

Here's the part where the hypocrisy gets exposed. For pages upon pages (up until the last two), at least one poster has gone on and on about the Z28 being beaten by a car that is $10K cheaper (which wasn't correct to begin with but that's beside the point). In fact one harped on and on asking the following,

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

Now that the remaining Z28s are considerably cheaper, what is their argument?

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with.

And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows a 10k difference. So yes, it is IN FACT correct.

Edited November 30, 2015 by FordCosworth

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

Here's the part where the hypocrisy gets exposed. For pages upon pages (up until the last two), at least one poster has gone on and on about the Z28 being beaten by a car that is $10K cheaper (which wasn't correct to begin with but that's beside the point). In fact one harped on and on asking the following,

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

Now that the remaining Z28s are considerably cheaper, what is their argument?

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with.

And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows that 10k difference is IN FACT correct.

It is not a rip off. That is pure opinion on your part. Guess when dealers offer $12K off on a new F-150, it must be a rip off too, based on your logic. Remember, this is not Chevrolet offering this deals. These were from select dealers.

Man, you can't even handle it when I agree with you so unless you have something productive to say to me for once, don't bother replying.

And yes you are correct about the $10K difference. I was referencing a page that was not correct. Sue me.

Edited November 30, 2015 by surreal1272

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

Here's the part where the hypocrisy gets exposed. For pages upon pages (up until the last two), at least one poster has gone on and on about the Z28 being beaten by a car that is $10K cheaper (which wasn't correct to begin with but that's beside the point). In fact one harped on and on asking the following,

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

Now that the remaining Z28s are considerably cheaper, what is their argument?

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with.

And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows that 10k difference is IN FACT correct.

It is not a rip off. That is pure opinion on your part. Guess when dealers offer $12K off on a new F-150, it must be a rip off too, based on your logic. Remember, this is not Chevrolet offering this deals. These were from select dealers.

Man, you can't even handle it when I agree with you so unless you have something productive to say to me for once, don't bother replying.

And yes you are correct about the $10K difference. I was referencing a page that was not correct. Sue me.

F-150....You are really reaching now.

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

Valid comparison using your logic and the fact that the discounts on those two are from the dealers and not the manufacturer.

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

Why would anyone have to ask the people who did the test? The video clearly show the GT350R at 3.9 and the Z28 at 4.0. Not really a big deal though, going by the logic used by some when the SS dusted the GT by 4/10ths of second going 0-60. Again, this is not surprising given the fact that we have a new model against an outgoing model (on an older heavier platform). Now what happens when that Z/28 goes to the much lighter Alpha platform? That is what everyone who is not a blind fanboy wants to see (and by "blind fanboy" I mean both brands before some here get their knickers in a knot).

Maybe read what El Kabong said. He assured all it was the Camaro that was quicker.

He is even saying so on M/T comment section.

So I went straight to the source.

Got a problem with it?

Again, get your knickers out of a bunch. In case you missed it, I agreed with your claim about the 0-60 but it was clear as day on that video what it was and didn't require the lengths you went to in order to prove Bong wrong. All you were doing there was instigating another never ending argument about absolutely nothing.

Again, in case you are not getting the gist and just want to continue to argue and insult me, Bong is wrong here.

Actually, by asking the source, I ended the argument.

November 30, 2015

I enjoy talking extreme car smack like the rest of you, and please don’t bore us with claims you don’t. This is why most of you are here, repeatedly. And had the R been beat by the Z, and regardless of how close, this thread would be twice as long by now with the same cast of characters doing what they do. And all of you know this.

Mustang got the win over the CURRENT Camaro being sold and profited from.

Best part is, Mustang owners have another $10G’s to play with to squeeze even more performance out of where Ford left off.

And that could buy quite a bit of performance btw.

So if GM follows up with something one day, we will have to then compare it to what Ford is selling at that time as well.

I enjoy discussing cars. Not talking smack. I already said I like the Shelby more, what more do you want? That doesn't change the fact that is a virtual guarantee that GM's competitor to the Shelby will surpass it, nor that the Z/28 is CHEAPER to buy, not more.

I don't want anything from you, and did not ask either.

And you talked plenty of smack, just in this thread. Don't lie.

Drew Dowdell · November 30, 2015

Here's the part where the hypocrisy gets exposed. For pages upon pages (up until the last two), at least one poster has gone on and on about the Z28 being beaten by a car that is $10K cheaper (which wasn't correct to begin with but that's beside the point). In fact one harped on and on asking the following,

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

Now that the remaining Z28s are considerably cheaper, what is their argument?

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with.

And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows a 10k difference. So yes, it is IN FACT correct.

They don't need to put the cash on the hood. The 20% off is only available to the 10% of the dealer's stock by age.... so the 10% oldest new vehicles on the lot get that deal and GM isn't excluding the Z28 from eligibility. Let's not act like this is a deal on Z28 Specifically, because it's mostly going to be on manual transmission Cruzes and 2015 Volts.

Buick did something similar last year. My Buick dealer had a Regal Premium hanging around that hadn't sold. The bought it themselves turned it into a CPO car and sold it for under MSRP while still making a healthy profit.

So good luck finding even a single Z28 out there that meets ALL of these criteria and ALSO hasn't been put through the dealer trick above.

And you better act fast... the 20% off ends today.

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

Why would anyone have to ask the people who did the test? The video clearly show the GT350R at 3.9 and the Z28 at 4.0. Not really a big deal though, going by the logic used by some when the SS dusted the GT by 4/10ths of second going 0-60. Again, this is not surprising given the fact that we have a new model against an outgoing model (on an older heavier platform). Now what happens when that Z/28 goes to the much lighter Alpha platform? That is what everyone who is not a blind fanboy wants to see (and by "blind fanboy" I mean both brands before some here get their knickers in a knot).

Maybe read what El Kabong said. He assured all it was the Camaro that was quicker.

He is even saying so on M/T comment section.

So I went straight to the source.

Got a problem with it?

Again, get your knickers out of a bunch. In case you missed it, I agreed with your claim about the 0-60 but it was clear as day on that video what it was and didn't require the lengths you went to in order to prove Bong wrong. All you were doing there was instigating another never ending argument about absolutely nothing.

Again, in case you are not getting the gist and just want to continue to argue and insult me, Bong is wrong here.

Actually, by asking the source, I ended the argument.

Well just go ahead and give yourself that much deserved pat on the back when anyone could have seen that by watching the video itself. It only took me one viewing to see who came out ahead.

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

Here's the part where the hypocrisy gets exposed. For pages upon pages (up until the last two), at least one poster has gone on and on about the Z28 being beaten by a car that is $10K cheaper (which wasn't correct to begin with but that's beside the point). In fact one harped on and on asking the following,

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

Now that the remaining Z28s are considerably cheaper, what is their argument?

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with.

And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows a 10k difference. So yes, it is IN FACT correct.

They don't need to put the cash on the hood. The 20% off is only available to the 10% of the dealer's stock by age.... so the 10% oldest new vehicles on the lot get that deal and GM isn't excluding the Z28 from eligibility. Let's not act like this is a deal on Z28 Specifically, because it's mostly going to be on manual transmission Cruzes and 2015 Volts.

Buick did something similar last year. My Buick dealer had a Regal Premium hanging around that hadn't sold. The bought it themselves turned it into a CPO car and sold it for under MSRP while still making a healthy profit.

So good luck finding even a single Z28 out there that meets ALL of these criteria and ALSO hasn't been put through the dealer trick above.

And you better act fast... the 20% off ends today.

But doesn't that still make it a "rip off" Drew, as some claim here?

Drew Dowdell · November 30, 2015

Here's the part where the hypocrisy gets exposed. For pages upon pages (up until the last two), at least one poster has gone on and on about the Z28 being beaten by a car that is $10K cheaper (which wasn't correct to begin with but that's beside the point). In fact one harped on and on asking the following,

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

Now that the remaining Z28s are considerably cheaper, what is their argument?

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with.

And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows a 10k difference. So yes, it is IN FACT correct.

They don't need to put the cash on the hood. The 20% off is only available to the 10% of the dealer's stock by age.... so the 10% oldest new vehicles on the lot get that deal and GM isn't excluding the Z28 from eligibility. Let's not act like this is a deal on Z28 Specifically, because it's mostly going to be on manual transmission Cruzes and 2015 Volts.

Buick did something similar last year. My Buick dealer had a Regal Premium hanging around that hadn't sold. The bought it themselves turned it into a CPO car and sold it for under MSRP while still making a healthy profit.

So good luck finding even a single Z28 out there that meets ALL of these criteria and ALSO hasn't been put through the dealer trick above.

And you better act fast... the 20% off ends today.

But doesn't that still make it a "rip off" Drew, as some claim here?

Only as much as the $10k plus in dealer markup the Shelby will get

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

Here's the part where the hypocrisy gets exposed. For pages upon pages (up until the last two), at least one poster has gone on and on about the Z28 being beaten by a car that is $10K cheaper (which wasn't correct to begin with but that's beside the point). In fact one harped on and on asking the following,

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

Now that the remaining Z28s are considerably cheaper, what is their argument?

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with.

And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows a 10k difference. So yes, it is IN FACT correct.

They don't need to put the cash on the hood. The 20% off is only available to the 10% of the dealer's stock by age.... so the 10% oldest new vehicles on the lot get that deal and GM isn't excluding the Z28 from eligibility. Let's not act like this is a deal on Z28 Specifically, because it's mostly going to be on manual transmission Cruzes and 2015 Volts.

Buick did something similar last year. My Buick dealer had a Regal Premium hanging around that hadn't sold. The bought it themselves turned it into a CPO car and sold it for under MSRP while still making a healthy profit.

So good luck finding even a single Z28 out there that meets ALL of these criteria and ALSO hasn't been put through the dealer trick above.

And you better act fast... the 20% off ends today.

Theres 9 shown right here that range from $51,913 to $55,977

http://jalopnik.com/on-black-friday-go-buy-yourself-a-camaro-z-28-with-a-r-1744593201

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

Why would anyone have to ask the people who did the test? The video clearly show the GT350R at 3.9 and the Z28 at 4.0. Not really a big deal though, going by the logic used by some when the SS dusted the GT by 4/10ths of second going 0-60. Again, this is not surprising given the fact that we have a new model against an outgoing model (on an older heavier platform). Now what happens when that Z/28 goes to the much lighter Alpha platform? That is what everyone who is not a blind fanboy wants to see (and by "blind fanboy" I mean both brands before some here get their knickers in a knot).

Maybe read what El Kabong said. He assured all it was the Camaro that was quicker.

He is even saying so on M/T comment section.

So I went straight to the source.

Got a problem with it?

Again, get your knickers out of a bunch. In case you missed it, I agreed with your claim about the 0-60 but it was clear as day on that video what it was and didn't require the lengths you went to in order to prove Bong wrong. All you were doing there was instigating another never ending argument about absolutely nothing.

Again, in case you are not getting the gist and just want to continue to argue and insult me, Bong is wrong here.

Actually, by asking the source, I ended the argument.

Well just go ahead and give yourself that much deserved pat on the back when anyone could have seen that by watching the video itself. It only took me one viewing to see who came out ahead.

Obviously not anyone/everyone.

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

Here's the part where the hypocrisy gets exposed. For pages upon pages (up until the last two), at least one poster has gone on and on about the Z28 being beaten by a car that is $10K cheaper (which wasn't correct to begin with but that's beside the point). In fact one harped on and on asking the following,

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

Now that the remaining Z28s are considerably cheaper, what is their argument?

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with.

And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows a 10k difference. So yes, it is IN FACT correct.

They don't need to put the cash on the hood. The 20% off is only available to the 10% of the dealer's stock by age.... so the 10% oldest new vehicles on the lot get that deal and GM isn't excluding the Z28 from eligibility. Let's not act like this is a deal on Z28 Specifically, because it's mostly going to be on manual transmission Cruzes and 2015 Volts.

Buick did something similar last year. My Buick dealer had a Regal Premium hanging around that hadn't sold. The bought it themselves turned it into a CPO car and sold it for under MSRP while still making a healthy profit.

So good luck finding even a single Z28 out there that meets ALL of these criteria and ALSO hasn't been put through the dealer trick above.

And you better act fast... the 20% off ends today.

But doesn't that still make it a "rip off" Drew, as some claim here?

Only as much as the $10k plus in dealer markup the Shelby will get

^This and $10K will be the minimum mark up for that car. There will be some $80K GT350Rs, bank on it.

Drew Dowdell · November 30, 2015

Here's the part where the hypocrisy gets exposed. For pages upon pages (up until the last two), at least one poster has gone on and on about the Z28 being beaten by a car that is $10K cheaper (which wasn't correct to begin with but that's beside the point). In fact one harped on and on asking the following,

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

Now that the remaining Z28s are considerably cheaper, what is their argument?

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with.

And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows a 10k difference. So yes, it is IN FACT correct.

They don't need to put the cash on the hood. The 20% off is only available to the 10% of the dealer's stock by age.... so the 10% oldest new vehicles on the lot get that deal and GM isn't excluding the Z28 from eligibility. Let's not act like this is a deal on Z28 Specifically, because it's mostly going to be on manual transmission Cruzes and 2015 Volts.

Buick did something similar last year. My Buick dealer had a Regal Premium hanging around that hadn't sold. The bought it themselves turned it into a CPO car and sold it for under MSRP while still making a healthy profit.

So good luck finding even a single Z28 out there that meets ALL of these criteria and ALSO hasn't been put through the dealer trick above.

And you better act fast... the 20% off ends today.

Theres 9 shown right here that range from $51,913 to $55,977

http://jalopnik.com/on-black-friday-go-buy-yourself-a-camaro-z-28-with-a-r-1744593201

9 in a search radius of 1,000 miles.... or 9 in 785,398 square miles.

And it ends at close of business today.

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

Here's the part where the hypocrisy gets exposed. For pages upon pages (up until the last two), at least one poster has gone on and on about the Z28 being beaten by a car that is $10K cheaper (which wasn't correct to begin with but that's beside the point). In fact one harped on and on asking the following,

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

Now that the remaining Z28s are considerably cheaper, what is their argument?

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with.

And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows a 10k difference. So yes, it is IN FACT correct.

They don't need to put the cash on the hood. The 20% off is only available to the 10% of the dealer's stock by age.... so the 10% oldest new vehicles on the lot get that deal and GM isn't excluding the Z28 from eligibility. Let's not act like this is a deal on Z28 Specifically, because it's mostly going to be on manual transmission Cruzes and 2015 Volts.

Buick did something similar last year. My Buick dealer had a Regal Premium hanging around that hadn't sold. The bought it themselves turned it into a CPO car and sold it for under MSRP while still making a healthy profit.

So good luck finding even a single Z28 out there that meets ALL of these criteria and ALSO hasn't been put through the dealer trick above.

And you better act fast... the 20% off ends today.

Theres 9 shown right here that range from $51,913 to $55,977

http://jalopnik.com/on-black-friday-go-buy-yourself-a-camaro-z-28-with-a-r-1744593201

So, using the argument you gave a few days ago (with obvious terms reversed).

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a GT350R that performs only marginally as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the Z28?"

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

Here's the part where the hypocrisy gets exposed. For pages upon pages (up until the last two), at least one poster has gone on and on about the Z28 being beaten by a car that is $10K cheaper (which wasn't correct to begin with but that's beside the point). In fact one harped on and on asking the following,

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

Now that the remaining Z28s are considerably cheaper, what is their argument?

My argument is if one need to put 20-25k on the hood of a limited edition car to move it, obviously it was a rip of to begin with.

And take a look at the as tested price in the video. It clearly shows a 10k difference. So yes, it is IN FACT correct.

They don't need to put the cash on the hood. The 20% off is only available to the 10% of the dealer's stock by age.... so the 10% oldest new vehicles on the lot get that deal and GM isn't excluding the Z28 from eligibility. Let's not act like this is a deal on Z28 Specifically, because it's mostly going to be on manual transmission Cruzes and 2015 Volts.

Buick did something similar last year. My Buick dealer had a Regal Premium hanging around that hadn't sold. The bought it themselves turned it into a CPO car and sold it for under MSRP while still making a healthy profit.

So good luck finding even a single Z28 out there that meets ALL of these criteria and ALSO hasn't been put through the dealer trick above.

And you better act fast... the 20% off ends today.

Theres 9 shown right here that range from $51,913 to $55,977

http://jalopnik.com/on-black-friday-go-buy-yourself-a-camaro-z-28-with-a-r-1744593201

So, using the argument you gave a few days ago (with obvious terms reversed).

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a GT350R that performs only marginally as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the Z28?"

So, using the argument you gave a few days ago ( with obvious terms reversed )

" Again, BOTH the Z/28 and GT350R are overpriced in respect to the next step down variants of BOTH cars. I am really not sure what you are having a problem with here other than to try and attack me. "

( see post #77 )

And FYI. I am not sure how you can claim the GT350R " performs only marginally as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the Z28? " -

The GT350R was better performing in EVERY aspect. Like today, you havent a clue as to what youre arguing

Edited November 30, 2015 by FordCosworth

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

It was marginally better in many respects. The margin of victory it had overall was smaller than the margin of victory between the SS and GT the other week, a margin that was dismissed by two certain posters here. Why does it apply now but not then? Perhaps because your favorite actually won this time?

It is you that doesn't know what you are arguing.

And #77 is no way related to what I asked. You know what i am talking and now your are dodging it.

This was post #67, made by you.

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

I simply reversed it because it applies in this case, knowing that the Z28 is CHEAPER than the GT350R, as you repeatedly pointed out. Remember?

Edited November 30, 2015 by surreal1272

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

It was marginally better in many respects. The margin of victory it had overall was smaller than the margin of victory between the SS and GT the other week, a margin that was dismissed by two certain posters here. Why does it apply now but not then? Perhaps because your favorite actually won this time?

It is you that doesn't know what you are arguing.

And #77 is no way related to what I asked. You know what i am talking and now your are dodging it.

This was post #67, made by you.

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

I simply reversed it because it applies in this case, knowing that the Z28 is CHEAPER than the GT350R, as you repeatedly pointed out. Remember?

And the only reply you're worthy of is a reply c/o you ( post 77 )

" Again, BOTH the Z/28 and GT350R are overpriced in respect to the next step down variants of BOTH cars. I am really not sure what you are having a problem with here other than to try and attack me. "

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

It was marginally better in many respects. The margin of victory it had overall was smaller than the margin of victory between the SS and GT the other week, a margin that was dismissed by two certain posters here. Why does it apply now but not then? Perhaps because your favorite actually won this time?

It is you that doesn't know what you are arguing.

And #77 is no way related to what I asked. You know what i am talking and now your are dodging it.

This was post #67, made by you.

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

I simply reversed it because it applies in this case, knowing that the Z28 is CHEAPER than the GT350R, as you repeatedly pointed out. Remember?

And the only reply you're worthy of is a reply c/o you ( post 77 )

" Again, BOTH the Z/28 and GT350R are overpriced in respect to the next step down variants of BOTH cars. I am really not sure what you are having a problem with here other than to try and attack me. "

Again, not relevant because it's not me that made the overpriced statement in the first place. You did because you believed it is overpriced, as evidenced by your use of the term "rip off". Now that the Z28 is far cheaper, I simple asked you what you asked me. Remember, I think both were a rip off while you only think one is so just answer the simple question and stop side stepping.

Drew Dowdell · November 30, 2015

Do I have to bring out the Let it Go video again?

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

Do I have to bring out the Let it Go video again?

No. I just asked him a simple question and he wants to dodge it after he hounded me for two pages about the same thing. That is all.

FordCosworth · November 30, 2015

It was marginally better in many respects. The margin of victory it had overall was smaller than the margin of victory between the SS and GT the other week, a margin that was dismissed by two certain posters here. Why does it apply now but not then? Perhaps because your favorite actually won this time?

It is you that doesn't know what you are arguing.

And #77 is no way related to what I asked. You know what i am talking and now your are dodging it.

This was post #67, made by you.

"Why would someone pay 13% more ( MSRP per video ) for a Z/28 that doesn't perform as well as a track car, street car and drag car ( not intended function ) compared to the GT350R?"

I simply reversed it because it applies in this case, knowing that the Z28 is CHEAPER than the GT350R, as you repeatedly pointed out. Remember?

And the only reply you're worthy of is a reply c/o you ( post 77 )

" Again, BOTH the Z/28 and GT350R are overpriced in respect to the next step down variants of BOTH cars. I am really not sure what you are having a problem with here other than to try and attack me. "

Again, not relevant because it's not me that made the overpriced statement in the first place. You did because you believed it is overpriced, as evidenced by your use of the term "rip off". Now that the Z28 is far cheaper, I simple asked you what you asked me. Remember, I think both were a rip off while you only think one is so just answer the simple question and stop side stepping.

Do I have to bring out the Let it Go video again?

ccap41 · November 30, 2015

Do I have to bring out the Let it Go video again?

Just start thread banning people who talk about irrelevant crap for 5 pages in every thread.

Throw that hammer 'round.

:pokeowned: <- That, that hammer.

Drew Dowdell · November 30, 2015

Do I have to bring out the Let it Go video again?

Just start thread banning people who talk about irrelevant crap for 5 pages in every thread.

Throw that hammer 'round.

<- That, that hammer.

:suburban:

surreal1272 · November 30, 2015

Do I have to bring out the Let it Go video again?

Just start thread banning people who talk about irrelevant crap for 5 pages in every thread.

Throw that hammer 'round.

<- That, that hammer.

But then Ford fans would never be able to post. :gitfunky:

I kid, I kid folks.

ccap41 · December 1, 2015

Do I have to bring out the Let it Go video again?
Just start thread banning people who talk about irrelevant [/size]crap for 5 pages in every thread.

Throw that hammer 'round.

<- That, that hammer.

But then Ford fans would never be able to post.

I kid, I kid folks.

Honestly, that'd be fine. Do what ya gotta do.

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