Motor Trend Head2Head: GT350R vs. Z/28

[Drew Dowdell]

 

I'll make it simple. The Z/28 lost. It lost at both track and strip, and lost to the 5 year newer car..... barely.

 

 

edited you for clarity.

[FordCosworth]

I'll make it simple. The Z/28 lost. It lost at both track and strip, and lost to the 5 year newer car..... barely.

 

edited you for clarity.

Sorry Drew.

" Victories don't come any clearer than this. The GT350 is the easy winner of this Head2Head ".

And the Z/28 is not a 5yrs old car. It came out for model year 2014.

[El Kabong]

Oh.

It appears you don't know about something called video editing.

So sorry. But the 350R is slower to 60. For sure.

I defer to Drew on the dyno stuff. As he said, questions have been raised.

You might want to look at that video again. At no point is the Z/28 ahead in the straight line drag. The Shelby, from dead stop, was always ahead.

Why so focused on 0-60 anyways? That's not what either cars purpose is.

I'll make it simple. The Z/28 lost. It lost at both track and strip, and lost at being the better street car.

Well, you were stoked about ALL THE NUMBERS.

...so you were the one focused on 60.

Golly

[El Kabong]

I'll make it simple. The Z/28 lost. It lost at both track and strip, and lost to the 5 year newer car..... barely.

edited you for clarity.

Sorry Drew.

" Victories don't come any clearer than this. The GT350 is the easy winner of this Head2Head ".

And the Z/28 is not a 5yrs old car. It came out for model year 2014.

Well, it was a clear victory. Two tenths to 60, 1.4 around the road course. Whether or not it was easy?... Well, two tenths...

And you're right, the Z/28 is pretty new as a combination. But the frame and engine sure aren't.

Bottom line: Ford had better enjoy the win. I suspect it won't last.

Edited November 28, 2015 by El Kabong

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

I'll make it simple. The Z/28 lost. It lost at both track and strip, and lost to the 5 year newer car..... barely.

 

edited you for clarity.

Sorry Drew.

" Victories don't come any clearer than this. The GT350 is the easy winner of this Head2Head ".

And the Z/28 is not a 5yrs old car. It came out for model year 2014.

 

 

The Camaro came out in 2009... the Z28 is just the hot version of it. 

[FordCosworth]

Oh.

It appears you don't know about something called video editing.

So sorry. But the 350R is slower to 60. For sure.

I defer to Drew on the dyno stuff. As he said, questions have been raised.

You might want to look at that video again. At no point is the Z/28 ahead in the straight line drag. The Shelby, from dead stop, was always ahead.

Why so focused on 0-60 anyways? That's not what either cars purpose is.

I'll make it simple. The Z/28 lost. It lost at both track and strip, and lost at being the better street car.

Well, you were stoked about ALL THE NUMBERS.

...so you were the one focused on 60.

Golly

Unlike you. I never crowed and focus over 0-60.

But please. Do tell how the car that was behind, and falling further behind the whole time, was quicker.

[El Kabong]

I did. Video editing, remember?

Seriously man. You got schooled. Just take it like a grownup. You're starting to look silly now.

Edited November 28, 2015 by El Kabong

[FordCosworth]

I'll make it simple. The Z/28 lost. It lost at both track and strip, and lost to the 5 year newer car..... barely.

 

edited you for clarity.

Sorry Drew.

" Victories don't come any clearer than this. The GT350 is the easy winner of this Head2Head ".

And the Z/28 is not a 5yrs old car. It came out for model year 2014.

 

The Camaro came out in 2009... the Z28 is just the hot version of it.

Refresh my memory. Was there a 2009 Z/28?

[El Kabong]

The Camaro came out in 2009 as a 2010 model. I was there.

The LS7 came out in 2005 for a 2006 model.

Stop with the semantics. Semantics make you look silly.

[FordCosworth]

The Camaro came out in 2009 as a 2010 model. I was there.

The LS7 came out in 2005 for a 2006 model.

Stop with the semantics. Semantics make you look silly.

Silly is when someone tries to claim the car that was always behind was quicker.

[El Kabong]

"Yew haw! Ford just put its brand new V8 in its brand new, already updated chassis and beat an out-of-production Camaro around a road course by 1.4 seconds!!!"

Uh... yay

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

 

 

I'll make it simple. The Z/28 lost. It lost at both track and strip, and lost to the 5 year newer car..... barely.

 

edited you for clarity.

Sorry Drew.

" Victories don't come any clearer than this. The GT350 is the easy winner of this Head2Head ".

And the Z/28 is not a 5yrs old car. It came out for model year 2014.

 

The Camaro came out in 2009... the Z28 is just the hot version of it.

Refresh my memory. Was there a 2009 Z/28?

 

 

There is no 2009 Z/28 and there is no 2015 Z/28..... there is a 2015 Camaro with a Z/28 option package.   The car is the Camaro... and it's been around since 2009. 

[El Kabong]

The Camaro came out in 2009 as a 2010 model. I was there.

The LS7 came out in 2005 for a 2006 model.

Stop with the semantics. Semantics make you look silly.

Silly is when someone tries to claim the car that was always behind was quicker.

I'm sorry you don't understand how videos work. Sure is funny watching you obsess over it tho

Sure is funny seeing an LS7 burn a Voodoo to 60 too

Edited November 28, 2015 by El Kabong

[ccap41]

Yup. Can't believe the hp numbers. Who do you suppose was off by 20hp in their claims?

The 0-60 number was pretty cool too. 65 grand and you lose a stoplight Grand Prix to an Alpha SS?

A nice win.

But so, so far from invincible

I've already said my part but I'll say it again.. The Z has to be underrated as the GT350R only lost 10.4% from engine to wheels. The former standard not all that long ago was 12-15% for manual trans cars and 15-20 for autos. Oh how times have changed! That means the Z was right around 10% or less loss. Impressive(or underrated). Either way it's working for them.

[FordCosworth]

The Camaro came out in 2009 as a 2010 model. I was there.

The LS7 came out in 2005 for a 2006 model.

Stop with the semantics. Semantics make you look silly.

Silly is when someone tries to claim the car that was always behind was quicker.

I'm sorry you don't understand how videos work. Sure is funny watching you obsess over it tho

Sure is funny seeing an LS7 burn a Voodoo to 60 too

Still trying to sell that the Z/28 was quicker ( in one aspect ) huh?

Sure was awesome seeing a Voodoo burn an LS7 on the street, strip and track, all while coming in at an as tested 10k cheaper.

[ccap41]

The Camaro came out in 2009 as a 2010 model. I was there.

The LS7 came out in 2005 for a 2006 model.

Stop with the semantics. Semantics make you look silly.

Silly is when someone tries to claim the car that was always behind was quicker.

I thought he said an Alpha Camaro not the Z.

"Yew haw! Ford just put its brand new V8 in its brand new, already updated chassis and beat an out-of-production Camaro around a road course by 1.4 seconds!!!"

Uh... yay

It beat one damn good Camaro though. Not like it beat an SS.. It beat a freakin great car.

[El Kabong]

The Camaro came out in 2009 as a 2010 model. I was there.

The LS7 came out in 2005 for a 2006 model.

Stop with the semantics. Semantics make you look silly.

Silly is when someone tries to claim the car that was always behind was quicker.

I'm sorry you don't understand how videos work. Sure is funny watching you obsess over it tho

Sure is funny seeing an LS7 burn a Voodoo to 60 too

Still trying to sell that the Z/28 was quicker ( in one aspect ) huh?

Sure was awesome seeing a Voodoo burn an LS7 on the street, strip and track, all while coming in at an as tested 10k cheaper.

Uh... Not to 60 tho

Look. The Chevy had a decade-old engine. The Chevy had the five year-old chassis. The fact that you are crowing over Ford's latest and greatest edging out a car that's out of production is...

kinda sad really

[ccap41]

Sorry, the Z(if truly only a 508hp car) only lost 8.7%!! I think that means it's more underrated than anything else. Still, it's one hell of a motor.

[El Kabong]

Ccap: the Z/28 and Alpha SS were both quicker than the 350R to 60.

My personal theory on the LS7 is that GM underrated it. I suspect it's a trend with them.

Edited November 28, 2015 by El Kabong

[FordCosworth]

I'll make it simple. The Z/28 lost. It lost at both track and strip, and lost to the 5 year newer car..... barely.

edited you for clarity.

Sorry Drew.

" Victories don't come any clearer than this. The GT350 is the easy winner of this Head2Head ".

And the Z/28 is not a 5yrs old car. It came out for model year 2014.

Well, it was a clear victory. Two tenths to 60, 1.4 around the road course. Whether or not it was easy?... Well, two tenths...

And you're right, the Z/28 is pretty new as a combination. But the frame and engine sure aren't.

Bottom line: Ford had better enjoy the win. I suspect it won't last.

The Camaro came out in 2009 as a 2010 model. I was there.

The LS7 came out in 2005 for a 2006 model.

Stop with the semantics. Semantics make you look silly.

Silly is when someone tries to claim the car that was always behind was quicker.

I'm sorry you don't understand how videos work. Sure is funny watching you obsess over it tho

Sure is funny seeing an LS7 burn a Voodoo to 60 too

Still trying to sell that the Z/28 was quicker ( in one aspect ) huh?

Sure was awesome seeing a Voodoo burn an LS7 on the street, strip and track, all while coming in at an as tested 10k cheaper.

Uh... Not to 60 tho

Look. The Chevy had a decade-old engine. The Chevy had the five year-old chassis. The fact that you are crowing over Ford's latest and greatest edging out a car that's out of production is...

kinda sad really

Its understandable you're sad. I really didn't think you'd take Randy's " numb " to heart though.

[El Kabong]

Dood.

That comeback was the WORST

Look. Enjoy your victory. Accept the reality that it wasn't crushing. Consider the implications behind that. And let the rest of us raise a glass for the old car (still undefeated in some metrics).

Edited November 28, 2015 by El Kabong

[ccap41]

Ccap: the Z/28 and Alpha SS were both quicker than the 350R to 60.

My personal theory on the LS7 is that GM underrated it. I suspect it's a trend with them.

What are all three of the times to 60? I honestly looked past that and looked at the other numbers. Wasn't the Alpha like 4.1 or 4.0? What are the other two?

And as its been said by others and myself included about the Z and R but neither are 0-60 cars. They're special and include waaaay more than a 0-60mph time. They are here to pull well north of 1.00g sustained and brake while turning, switchbacks, hairpin turns..etc. but also run 12.1-12.3 in the quarter mile, which is more of a bonus for these cars. For perspective, what's a Ferrari 458 sprint to 60 in? I assume no quicker than 4.0 as well. But that isn't what that car(or the Z or R) are about. They do way more than that and that's what actually makes these cars special. A Hellcat can sprint in a straight like like a bat out of hell but it's easy to make big power. It's tough to get that power to the ground while doing all of the above moves and that's where these new era of pony cars come into play. They sprint aaaand handle like exotics. I know the GT doesn't so much, compared to the alpha, Z, or R. I don't want you thinking I'm putting the GT into the same category as the Alpha has already proven itself as quite superior in any performance metric.

Wow. Quite the ramble. I guess I'll read it tomorrow to see if any of it made sense.

[Frisky Dingo]

Throw the 0-60 times out the window, I can promise you the Z/28 feels stronger out on the street.

 

Again, cost-no-object, I'd take the Shelby, but it's a narrow victory for it, and I think whatever GM has coming will easily surpass it.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Both engines are assembled by hand, but the LS7 needs 7 liters and exotic titanium rods and valves to be able to rev enough to make it's HP and at incredible cost.  That is why the Ford engine costs a fraction of what that GM motor costs and a huge part of that $10,000 premium as well.

 

Ford engineers can certainly throw a few more hot rod tricks at the Mustang, and titanium rods are a HUGE potential for them. One of the challenges current bottom end engineers faced with the FP design, was the larger rotating mass of the 5.2L that kept the max RPM's to only 8,250 (goal was 8,400), not unlike a too large I4 displacement in excess of 2.6L, which is exactly half of the 5.2L.  But ultra lightweight rods would then reduce the crankshaft counterweights and ultimately, much less rotating mass. RPM's in excess of 8400 should easily be achieved then, maybe as much as 9K.  Imagine the 'blipability' of a bottom end without all the reciprocating mass.  It would be costly, sure, but GM does do it.  I am forever more impressed by engineering feats that accomplish more, with less.  And assuming GM does perpetuate a Z or similar on new chassis, I would love to see Ford follow through with their next upgrade as well, in addition to the other tricks they have at their disposal.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Wings4Life

[surreal1272]

 

Its understandable you're sad. I really didn't think you'd take Randy's " numb " to heart though.

 

 

 

While you try to focus on his obvious over-statement (no one has ever said the Z28s steering felt numb, including Pobst himself.). His statements from the last Z28 retest via MT. Pay special attention to the last two words at the bottom. Remember. These are straight from the mouth of Randy Pobst.

 

“Oh my God, you fixed it!” came the voice. “This is so much better. It’s back. This is how it should perform. We were so right to name this car Best Driver’s Car.”

 

"“It’s funny — it was loose and sucky last time,” he said. “Now, it’s so hooked up. It’s back to the car we chose for Best Driver’s Car. It is so well-balanced and hooked up. It’s predictable. What a pleasure to drive. I could just attack Turn 8, I was in the power way in there, forget about the brakes. It just felt so fast. It handles so well. The grip is so high. It’s the car we love again. Last time, it was loose. It wouldn’t put power down. It was just kind of nervous. This time, it was just so fantastic in every way. It was balanced all the way around Turn 2 sweeper, maybe just a wee bit of understeer. At the end of the corner, I could just roll into the power, drive right off that corner. I kept getting on the power sooner and sooner and sooner. I’m pissed I can’t go faster, ’cause I think the tires just don’t have it in ’em. After a couple laps, they’re just not as good as they are when they’re fresh. The car is so well-balanced. The car is nicely behaved on bumps. Over the jump over here — no problem. I was shifting right in the air, and when it landed, it just hooked and kept going. It was just an absolute pleasure. It’s one of the best-handling factory cars I’ve ever driven. I wouldn’t change the car a lick if I was going to go racing right now. I would leave it exactly as it is. I would just tie the crew’s hands up, like ‘Don’t you touch this car!’ It’s perfect.”"

 

 

 

 

So next time, you might want to remember that before you try to hang certain statements on one person who has driven both cars rather extensively, especially when you totally miss the context by which these things are spoken.

Edited November 28, 2015 by surreal1272

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

Its understandable you're sad. I really didn't think you'd take Randy's " numb " to heart though.

 

 

 

While you try to focus on his obvious over-statement (no one has ever said the Z28s steering felt numb, including Pobst himself.). His statements from the last Z28 retest via MT. Pay special attention to the last two words at the bottom. Remember. These are straight from the mouth of Randy Pobst.

 

“Oh my God, you fixed it!” came the voice. “This is so much better. It’s back. This is how it should perform. We were so right to name this car Best Driver’s Car.”

 

"“It’s funny — it was loose and sucky last time,” he said. “Now, it’s so hooked up. It’s back to the car we chose for Best Driver’s Car. It is so well-balanced and hooked up. It’s predictable. What a pleasure to drive. I could just attack Turn 8, I was in the power way in there, forget about the brakes. It just felt so fast. It handles so well. The grip is so high. It’s the car we love again. Last time, it was loose. It wouldn’t put power down. It was just kind of nervous. This time, it was just so fantastic in every way. It was balanced all the way around Turn 2 sweeper, maybe just a wee bit of understeer. At the end of the corner, I could just roll into the power, drive right off that corner. I kept getting on the power sooner and sooner and sooner. I’m pissed I can’t go faster, ’cause I think the tires just don’t have it in ’em. After a couple laps, they’re just not as good as they are when they’re fresh. The car is so well-balanced. The car is nicely behaved on bumps. Over the jump over here — no problem. I was shifting right in the air, and when it landed, it just hooked and kept going. It was just an absolute pleasure. It’s one of the best-handling factory cars I’ve ever driven. I wouldn’t change the car a lick if I was going to go racing right now. I would leave it exactly as it is. I would just tie the crew’s hands up, like ‘Don’t you touch this car!’ It’s perfect.”"

 

 

 

 

So next time, you might want to remember that before you try to hang certain statements on one person who has driven both cars rather extensively, especially when you totally miss the context by which these things are spoken.

 

 

Those last few words, they were before Randy drove the R, right!

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

Its understandable you're sad. I really didn't think you'd take Randy's " numb " to heart though.

 

 

 

While you try to focus on his obvious over-statement (no one has ever said the Z28s steering felt numb, including Pobst himself.). His statements from the last Z28 retest via MT. Pay special attention to the last two words at the bottom. Remember. These are straight from the mouth of Randy Pobst.

 

“Oh my God, you fixed it!” came the voice. “This is so much better. It’s back. This is how it should perform. We were so right to name this car Best Driver’s Car.”

 

"“It’s funny — it was loose and sucky last time,” he said. “Now, it’s so hooked up. It’s back to the car we chose for Best Driver’s Car. It is so well-balanced and hooked up. It’s predictable. What a pleasure to drive. I could just attack Turn 8, I was in the power way in there, forget about the brakes. It just felt so fast. It handles so well. The grip is so high. It’s the car we love again. Last time, it was loose. It wouldn’t put power down. It was just kind of nervous. This time, it was just so fantastic in every way. It was balanced all the way around Turn 2 sweeper, maybe just a wee bit of understeer. At the end of the corner, I could just roll into the power, drive right off that corner. I kept getting on the power sooner and sooner and sooner. I’m pissed I can’t go faster, ’cause I think the tires just don’t have it in ’em. After a couple laps, they’re just not as good as they are when they’re fresh. The car is so well-balanced. The car is nicely behaved on bumps. Over the jump over here — no problem. I was shifting right in the air, and when it landed, it just hooked and kept going. It was just an absolute pleasure. It’s one of the best-handling factory cars I’ve ever driven. I wouldn’t change the car a lick if I was going to go racing right now. I would leave it exactly as it is. I would just tie the crew’s hands up, like ‘Don’t you touch this car!’ It’s perfect.”"

 

 

 

 

So next time, you might want to remember that before you try to hang certain statements on one person who has driven both cars rather extensively, especially when you totally miss the context by which these things are spoken.

 

 

Those last few words, they were before Randy drove the R, right!

 

Refer to what others have said when publications declare a winner in a comparo and why they really don't mean much, case and point, the same driver who stated perfection on the Z/28 a year ago, now says the steering is "numb" when that term has NEVER been used to described the best drivers car from last year. Just think about it for more than a minute before you and your buddy hang your hat on the "numb steering" statement. 

 

The funniest part of this is that you are hanging your hat on the words of a man who has been less than complimentary towards past Mustang variants (that you and other Ford fans promptly criticized) but now that he is being less than stellar towards the Z/28, you are all about some Randy Pobst. Just very interesting how that perspective suddenly changes when it favors your brand.

Edited November 28, 2015 by surreal1272

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

'numb' is clearly a relative term.  I am sure the Z felt fine a year ago, before they compared it to the R.

 

And now, suddenly through Ford's efforts and comparatively speaking, 'numb' seems to apply.

 

Not my words, don't hate the messenger.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Drew Dowdell
Removed the trolling.... knock it off

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

I can't wait to see what both brands bring to the table for the next round.  Forced induction, imo, should be left out of this segment.  But ultra performance has no bounds and needs to be included.  I wonder how far each brand will take it.  A GTDI coyote motor is almost certainly in the works, so that is not really a revelation.  And a yet another pushrod GM motor with forced induction is as well. That we know.  

 

Ahhhh, good times

Edited November 28, 2015 by Drew Dowdell
Removed the hypocritical trolling

[Frisky Dingo]

Just like to point out that the LS7 gains huge power with not a whole lot of investment. A decent cam, heads, and supporting bolt-ons puts them then in the upper 500's to the tire. It's not like that engine is tapped out by any means. As for doing 'more with less', well, the LS7 is physically smaller, lighter, and most likely more efficient to boot.

 

Anybody got a price tag on this new 5.2 Ford fans are soiling themselves over? 

 

Also, again- the Z/28 does not have 'numb' steering. I've driven one back to back with my old E90, which had tons of steering feel, and did not find it numb. Did it offer AS MUCH feel, no. Was it numb? Far from it. And it certainly doesn't feel numb to drive. About as far from numb as you can get, really.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Just like to point out that the LS7 gains huge power with not a whole lot of investment. A decent cam, heads, and supporting bolt-ons puts them then in the upper 500's to the tire. It's not like that engine is tapped out by any means. As for doing 'more with less', well, the LS7 is physically smaller, lighter, and most likely more efficient to boot.

 

Anybody got a price tag on this new 5.2 Ford fans are soiling themselves over? 

 

Also, again- the Z/28 does not have 'numb' steering. I've driven one back to back with my old E90, which had tons of steering feel, and did not find it numb. Did it offer AS MUCH feel, no. Was it numb? Far from it. And it certainly doesn't feel numb to drive. About as far from numb as you can get, really.

 

You are 100% wrong.

 

The LS7 is currently peaked or near peak in NA guise.

GM threw a lot of money and a lot of tricks at it. To claim it is not, means you have not looked into the hardware and manufacturing costs or at the very least, priced a crate motor.  GM even talked about how many millions of CAE iterations were modeled before achieving their goals. So unless you believe GM just left a lot on the proverbial table, or that suddenly CAE tools have evolved much better...then I see little room for improvement without much more cost thrown at at.  

 

The most exotic costly thing about the 5.2L is that they CNC'd the heads, which is pretty standard stuff.  There is nothing costly about the FP crank, other than a new casting is needed.  Hardly exotic.  Pistons are forged, again, standard stuff. Basic aluminum rods, so no ultra premium lightweight titanium.  And all the tuning was achieved with cam designs.  Again, standard hot rod stuff. A 5.2L crate motor is much less than the LS7. The most exotic tech about the 5.2L was that they were pinched for larger bore diameter, so they plasma coated the bores instead of cylinder liners.  

 

 

 

You are welcome.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Wings4Life

[Drew Dowdell]

The LS7 is done now anyway. The LT4 is what will most likely be used with 620hp to 650hp.

[surreal1272]

So there really isn't anything "exotic" (your word) or special about the 5.2L despite the endless PR hype brought on here? Thanks for clarifying that. 

 

Oh, my mistake. It does make a pretty noise so maybe that is what's special about it and that's it.

The LS7 is done now anyway. The LT4 is what will most likely be used with 620hp to 650hp.

It is amusing that some think that GM doesn't have any other options in the high performance engine game.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

So there really isn't anything "exotic" (your word) or special about the 5.2L despite the endless PR hype brought on here? Thanks for clarifying that. 

 

Oh, my mistake. It does make a pretty noise so maybe that is what's special about it and that's it.

The LS7 is done now anyway. The LT4 is what will most likely be used with 620hp to 650hp.

It is amusing that some think that GM doesn't have any other options in the high performance engine game.

 

 

So yeah, very little exotic about the FP 5.2L, other than the FP crank.  As has been said over and over.

 

And no, I never said GM never had other options, now did I.

[FordCosworth]

'numb' is clearly a relative term.  I am sure the Z felt fine a year ago, before they compared it to the R.

 

And now, suddenly through Ford's efforts and comparatively speaking, 'numb' seems to apply.

 

Not my words, don't hate the messenger.

Exactly. Cammisa went into great detail about the GT350R feedback and directional changes afforded by the Fords EPS.

Both him and RP mention the Z/28 as numb.

[surreal1272]

 

So there really isn't anything "exotic" (your word) or special about the 5.2L despite the endless PR hype brought on here? Thanks for clarifying that. 

 

Oh, my mistake. It does make a pretty noise so maybe that is what's special about it and that's it.

The LS7 is done now anyway. The LT4 is what will most likely be used with 620hp to 650hp.

It is amusing that some think that GM doesn't have any other options in the high performance engine game.

 

 

So yeah, very little exotic about the FP 5.2L, other than the FP crank.  As has been said over and over.

 

And no, I never said GM never had other options, now did I.

 

Did I mention you by name? Nope. Sure didn't. 

Edited November 28, 2015 by surreal1272

[FordCosworth]

So there really isn't anything "exotic" (your word) or special about the 5.2L despite the endless PR hype brought on here? Thanks for clarifying that. 

 

Oh, my mistake. It does make a pretty noise so maybe that is what's special about it and that's it.

The LS7 is done now anyway. The LT4 is what will most likely be used with 620hp to 650hp.

It is amusing that some think that GM doesn't have any other options in the high performance engine game.

 

 

So yeah, very little exotic about the FP 5.2L, other than the FP crank.  As has been said over and over.

 

And no, I never said GM never had other options, now did I.

I wonder who the people are that think GM doesn't have any other HiPo options in the engine game? It's amusing one would even post that some think that.

[surreal1272]

 

 

So there really isn't anything "exotic" (your word) or special about the 5.2L despite the endless PR hype brought on here? Thanks for clarifying that. 

 

Oh, my mistake. It does make a pretty noise so maybe that is what's special about it and that's it.

The LS7 is done now anyway. The LT4 is what will most likely be used with 620hp to 650hp.

It is amusing that some think that GM doesn't have any other options in the high performance engine game.

 

 

So yeah, very little exotic about the FP 5.2L, other than the FP crank.  As has been said over and over.

 

And no, I never said GM never had other options, now did I.

I wonder who the people are that think GM doesn't have any other HiPo options in the engine game? It's amusing one would even post that some think that.

 

What is a "wonder" is the fact that you seem to think I owe you anymore more explanations about anything ever Cosworth of MT. You have to ask why, then you have not been paying attention.

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

So there really isn't anything "exotic" (your word) or special about the 5.2L despite the endless PR hype brought on here? Thanks for clarifying that. 

 

Oh, my mistake. It does make a pretty noise so maybe that is what's special about it and that's it.

The LS7 is done now anyway. The LT4 is what will most likely be used with 620hp to 650hp.

It is amusing that some think that GM doesn't have any other options in the high performance engine game.

 

 

So yeah, very little exotic about the FP 5.2L, other than the FP crank.  As has been said over and over.

 

And no, I never said GM never had other options, now did I.

I wonder who the people are that think GM doesn't have any other HiPo options in the engine game? It's amusing one would even post that some think that.

 

What is a "wonder" is the fact that you seem to think I owe you anymore more explanations about anything ever Cosworth of MT. You have to ask why, then you have not been paying attention.

 

Let's remove the extra "more" shall we (too late to edit apparently)? And let me revise the last sentence.

"If you have to ask why, then you have not been paying attention."

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

So there really isn't anything "exotic" (your word) or special about the 5.2L despite the endless PR hype brought on here? Thanks for clarifying that. 

 

Oh, my mistake. It does make a pretty noise so maybe that is what's special about it and that's it.

The LS7 is done now anyway. The LT4 is what will most likely be used with 620hp to 650hp.

It is amusing that some think that GM doesn't have any other options in the high performance engine game.

 

 

So yeah, very little exotic about the FP 5.2L, other than the FP crank.  As has been said over and over.

 

And no, I never said GM never had other options, now did I.

I wonder who the people are that think GM doesn't have any other HiPo options in the engine game? It's amusing one would even post that some think that.

 

well, when you don't implicate or name anyone, it sure is easy to make statement like that.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Wings4Life

[Drew Dowdell]

The Mustang won over an out-of-production car... Next up, the C-Max Energi takes on the 2015 Volt?

 

General Motors has all the ingredients today to take the title back rather quickly.  Superior chassis (considered best in the world at the moment), superior power, superior suspension are all there in GM's pantry and they have the Motor Trend Car of the Year to put it all in.

 

Enjoy the temporary win since it will be back to second place track and street performance for the Mustang rather soon. 

[FordCosworth]

So there really isn't anything "exotic" (your word) or special about the 5.2L despite the endless PR hype brought on here? Thanks for clarifying that. 

 

Oh, my mistake. It does make a pretty noise so maybe that is what's special about it and that's it.

The LS7 is done now anyway. The LT4 is what will most likely be used with 620hp to 650hp.

It is amusing that some think that GM doesn't have any other options in the high performance engine game.

 

 

So yeah, very little exotic about the FP 5.2L, other than the FP crank.  As has been said over and over.

 

And no, I never said GM never had other options, now did I.

I wonder who the people are that think GM doesn't have any other HiPo options in the engine game? It's amusing one would even post that some think that.

well, when you don't implicate or name anyone, it sure is easy to make statement like that.

Easy. Yes. Baseless. Yes.

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

So there really isn't anything "exotic" (your word) or special about the 5.2L despite the endless PR hype brought on here? Thanks for clarifying that. 

 

Oh, my mistake. It does make a pretty noise so maybe that is what's special about it and that's it.

The LS7 is done now anyway. The LT4 is what will most likely be used with 620hp to 650hp.

It is amusing that some think that GM doesn't have any other options in the high performance engine game.

 

 

So yeah, very little exotic about the FP 5.2L, other than the FP crank.  As has been said over and over.

 

And no, I never said GM never had other options, now did I.

I wonder who the people are that think GM doesn't have any other HiPo options in the engine game? It's amusing one would even post that some think that.

 

well, when you don't implicate or name anyone, it sure is easy to make statement like that.

 

Edited because I went too far and can admit it. Sorry Drew.

Edited November 28, 2015 by surreal1272

[Drew Dowdell]

STOP WITH THE BACK AND FORTH ABOUT EACH OTHER!

 

WARNING POINTS GO OUT NEXT

[FordCosworth]

Drew,

It's safe to say with the gen 5 Camaro production ending Nov. 20/2015, and this Head2Head video being released on Nov 25/2016, that the gen 5 Camaro was in fact still in production when this comparo was compiled.

[Drew Dowdell]

Drew,

It's safe to say with the gen 5 Camaro production ending Nov. 20/2015, and this Head2Head video being released on Nov 25/2016, that the gen 5 Camaro was in fact still in production when this comparo was compiled.

 

And it doesn't matter... the Camaro5 is done.  Even if the video was produced back in September, the Camaro5 had at most 2 months of production left to it. GM was just using up parts at that point.  It was an outgoing design on a platform that began development in 1999 and using a 10 year old engine.

 

All of this howling over the "fantastic" flat-plane V8... and for what? 2/10ths of a second to 60 and 1.16 second in a single lap?  That is well within the range of driver error in a single lap.

 

 

Why don't you understand that it is actually a problem that the Mustang just barely beat a car with that kind of age disadvantage?  I expect a brand new Ford Mustang GT350R to positively wipe the floor with a 6 year old Camaro chassis that is using a 10 year old engine and last gen Corvette shocks. It didn't..... and that is a problem for the Mustang.  I'm not trying to say that the Camaro5 is better... I'm saying I expected a lot more results from the GT350R

[FordCosworth]

Drew,

It's safe to say with the gen 5 Camaro production ending Nov. 20/2015, and this Head2Head video being released on Nov 25/2016, that the gen 5 Camaro was in fact still in production when this comparo was compiled.

 

And it doesn't matter... the Camaro5 is done.  Even if the video was produced back in September, the Camaro5 had at most 2 months of production left to it. GM was just using up parts at that point.  It was an outgoing design on a platform that began development in 1999 and using a 10 year old engine.

 

All of this howling over the "fantastic" flat-plane V8... and for what? 2/10ths of a second to 60 and 1.16 second in a single lap?  That is well within the range of driver error in a single lap.

 

2015-11-28.png

 

Why don't you understand that it is actually a problem that the Mustang just barely beat a car with that kind of age disadvantage?  I expect a brand new Ford Mustang GT350R to positively wipe the floor with a 6 year old Camaro chassis that is using a 10 year old engine and last gen Corvette shocks. It didn't..... and that is a problem for the Mustang.  I'm not trying to say that the Camaro5 is better... I'm saying I expected a lot more results from the GT350R

A) It does matter. The Camaro was not out of production.

B) Driver error. Fine. Now the Z/28 is

2+ seconds behind on that specific lap.

C) When has any Corvette come with Dynamic Suspension Spool Valve (DSSV) damper system?

According to Cammisa, it was a " clear and easy victory ". Im not sure how that equates to barely in your books.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

production is one thing, advertising and selling is another.

[ccap41]

Throw the 0-60 times out the window, I can promise you the Z/28 feels stronger out on the street.

 

Again, cost-no-object, I'd take the Shelby, but it's a narrow victory for it, and I think whatever GM has coming will easily surpass it.

Feels stronger than what? An Alpha or GT350R?

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

Drew,

It's safe to say with the gen 5 Camaro production ending Nov. 20/2015, and this Head2Head video being released on Nov 25/2016, that the gen 5 Camaro was in fact still in production when this comparo was compiled.

 

And it doesn't matter... the Camaro5 is done.  Even if the video was produced back in September, the Camaro5 had at most 2 months of production left to it. GM was just using up parts at that point.  It was an outgoing design on a platform that began development in 1999 and using a 10 year old engine.

 

All of this howling over the "fantastic" flat-plane V8... and for what? 2/10ths of a second to 60 and 1.16 second in a single lap?  That is well within the range of driver error in a single lap.

 

2015-11-28.png

 

Why don't you understand that it is actually a problem that the Mustang just barely beat a car with that kind of age disadvantage?  I expect a brand new Ford Mustang GT350R to positively wipe the floor with a 6 year old Camaro chassis that is using a 10 year old engine and last gen Corvette shocks. It didn't..... and that is a problem for the Mustang.  I'm not trying to say that the Camaro5 is better... I'm saying I expected a lot more results from the GT350R

A) It does matter. The Camaro was not out of production.

B) Driver error. Fine. Now the Z/28 is

2+ seconds behind on that specific lap.

C) When has any Corvette come with Dynamic Suspension Spool Valve (DSSV) damper system?

According to Cammisa, it was a " clear and easy victory ". Im not sure how that equates to barely in your books.

 

 

A) it matters about as much as a win over the Pontiac G8 GXP

B) or they were tied.

C) My mistake, I was thinking Camaro ZL1 that has the last gen MRC. 

 

I don't dispute that it was a win for the Mustang.....  the "barely" part comes down to the fact that the hard numbers were within the margin of error and the intangibles being... intangible.