Mustang Team: We Didn't Benchmark Camaro

[El Kabong]

So. It has come down to this. Ford's Mustang chief claims that they were so busy benchmarking the Germans and Japanese that the Camaro slipped their mind. To be fair, it appears to be a pre-emptive strike because the dateline occurred just as the first comparos were being done, and before COTY. Still, not exactly a strong endorsement for Ford, wot?

More at the link, if you can bear to read it:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/09/2015-ford-mustang-dissing-on-chevrolet-camaro/#ixzz3sR0Fjoph

[cp-the-nerd]

Just going to point out that this article is dated September 2014. Clearly their stance changed when they targeted the Z/28 directly during development of the GT350R.

[El Kabong]

Good catch. Problem is, the old Camaro was still wining the odd comparo against it even then.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

The Camaro was a pig. Why would they benchmark it.

[El Kabong]

The Camaro was a pig. Why would they benchmark it.

Uh... because the new Mustang is also a pig?

[Suaviloquent]

Bounded rationality or incompetence. They should have done some guesswork on which platform GM was going to use for the next Camaro.

 

They made the mistake of thinking that GM wouldn't move forward, continued usage of Zeta. Erroneous. As soon as Australian manufacturing got the boot they should have figured that Zeta's days were numbered. 

 

Speaking of benchmarking Europeans, they can't beat the Europeans in performance aside from the epic GT350/R yet the Camaro can.

 

So they aren't superior to the benchmarks, and they didn't consider the future of Camaro, so they can't beat the Camaro. 

Edited November 24, 2015 by Suaviloquent
Got some edjumucation.

[El Kabong]

Aside from mistaking Sigma with Zeta, I approve of this post

Edited November 24, 2015 by El Kabong

[surreal1272]

Well, if we are to go off of this, then it is even worse than it seems.

 

It was benchmarked against the Porsche 911, BMW M3, and even Nissan GT-R yet cannot beat the new Camaro. Now, what happened there? Is the new Camaro better than those three that the Mustang benchmarked themselves against? Or is it just the fact that saying the Mustang was benchmarked against those three nothing more than marketing speak? Either possibility is certainly worthy of a debate.

 

[El Kabong]

It was the tough talk of a man who knew he was about to get his head handed to him (probably through no fault of his own) by a company who values steak, not sizzle.

[Suaviloquent]

Even MT's description of the Mustang was a very diplomatic way of saying it'd make a great rental.

 

Brutal, and it's my interpretation of it.

 

Benchmarking. Really? This is what they relied on? 

 

What about setting hard arbitrary targets like 0-60 in 4 seconds for the GT, curb weights as well, instead of relying on some dumb performance to price ratio?

 

Well the GT350/R are great, but they're not the meat of the pie. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

When developing the intriguing flat plane crank, DOHC V8 engine that even uses plasma arc bore coating technology that Ford developed....I am sure that Ford engineers had to look well past the pushrod and overweight camaro that was available at that time.

 

And the only advantage Ford engineers see that new base V8 camaro has over last years Mustang.....is more power, through of course far more displacement and a few gears.

 

Yeah, I think Ford has this covered as well, without the need for benchmarking how they got there.

But, Ford is very thorough with their benchmarking, so i am sure they will go through the motions very thoroughly, anyway.

[ccap41]

When developing the intriguing flat plane crank, DOHC V8 engine that even uses plasma arc bore coating technology that Ford developed....I am sure that Ford engineers had to look well past the pushrod and overweight camaro that was available at that time.

 

And the only advantage Ford engineers see that new base V8 camaro has over last years Mustang.....is more power, through of course far more displacement and a few gears.

 

Yeah, I think Ford has this covered as well, without the need for benchmarking how they got there.

But, Ford is very thorough with their benchmarking, so i am sure they will go through the motions very thoroughly, anyway.

If Ford is 10-15 years behind when all these cars were was hp and weight then they will forever be behind the Camaro. You need to be able to put the power to the ground and there are MANY variables that go into that. displacement is a moot point and really means nothing because power is what it is, 455. But it's how they designed a chassis to get that power to the ground both accelerating and decelerating. That is currently where the Mustang is lagging behind the Camaro and the supposed benchmarked cars. It isn't about peak hp anymore, which the Camaro has as well...  I just hope they see they are behind in more than just hp and tq to the SS.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd buy the GT over the SS every day of the week but I know it is behind in performance. I just want Ford to take this blow to the chin and run with it. Take this as a big slap in the face and make improvements like GM did with the Zeta Camaro. They turned a whale into a dolphin(over weight and sloppy to agile and precise - odd comparison, right? lol ).

[Drew Dowdell]

First off, the benchmarking would have needed to happen years ago before Alpha was even released.... I can see not benchmarking the 5-gen Camaro because it is built on a full-size sedan platform and there are inherent disadvantages to that, weight being the biggest one.... but the GM team was still able to overcome that disadvantage mostly.

 

I think that GM's extreme weight loss program has caught a number of manufacturers off guard, not just Ford.  GM has made weight reduction a major priority across their lineup and their success at it has raised some eyebrows.  It started with the ATS and has really hit home with the CT6. Even the Lacrosse got a weight reduction, but without losing its characteristic quietness.

[smk4565]

I would agree with Drew's point that Zeta wasn't worth bench marking and that the bench marking process would have been 3 years ago. Ford in 2012 wouldn't have known what the 2016 Camaro would be.

I'd also add this. If Ford in their mind felt the Mustang was the best car in the segment, why would they benchmark someone else? I am not saying I think the Mustang is the best car, but if Ford thought it was, they are going to benchmark themselves.

For Example, you don't hear BMW saying we benchmarked the IS350 or G37 when designing a 3-series. The 3-Series is the gold standard, they can only advance their own design, and would not benchmark a lesser product.

[balthazar]

They should've benchmarked the ATS...

[ocnblu]

It's OK, Mustang fans, there is a permanent mark on the bench for you.  Just remain seated.