Cadillac News: Cadillac Shows CT6 Plug-In Hybrid at LA Auto Show

[Drew Dowdell]

When the Cadillac CT6 was originally shown in the US back in March, we only saw the standard gasoline models while the plug-in hybrid was shown in Shanghai. Cadillac brought it to the LA Auto Show with some updated information.

 

First, let's review some information about the CT6 Plug-In.

 

The Cadillac CT6 Plug-In uses the same type of liquid cooled batteries found in the Chevrolet Volt. It packs the same number of them as well, 192 cells. Unlike the Volt's T-shape battery configuration, the CT6's are stacked on top of each other directly over the rear axle. Naturally, total battery output also matches the Volt at 18.4 kWh of juice. This is more than double the battery capacity of the Mercede-Benz S550 Plug-In hybrid's 8.7 kWh. Cadillac says that recharging the CT6 from empty will take about 5 hours on 240v service depending on ambient temperatures.

 

The electric drive part of the equation is handled by a new EVT (Electric Variable Transmission). The EVT has two 100 horsepower electric motors which, combined with power from the gasoline engine, channel power through three planetary gear sets via 5-clutches to the rear wheels. All-wheel drive will not be offered. Those of you who remember the details of GM's older 2-Mode hybrid system might recognize this setup and while the new EVT is not an evolution of that design, Cadillac did take lessons from the 2-mode when designing this system.

 

The gasoline engine is a version of the 2 liter turbo 4-cylinder found in the base model CT6. Cadillac does not quote the output of the gasoline engine independently, stating only the combined system rating of 335 horsepower and 432 lb-ft of torque. Zero to 60 mph is expected to be about 5.3 seconds. Top speed in electric only mode is 75 mph while overall top speed is 150 mph.

 

Cadillac says that the EPA estimated EV range for the CT6 will be about 30 miles and combined system fuel economy is estimated at 65 MPGe. These are favorable numbers compared to the S550e's EPA estimated ratings of 14 miles in EV mode and 58 MPGe.

 

Drivers have three drive modes available. Normal and Sport are self-explanatory, while Hold tells the system to save battery power for use later. Like in the Cadillac ELR, the driver will be able to use paddles on the steering wheel to engage regen-on-demand, a sort of hand brake combined with battery recharging.

 

Pricing for the 2016 Cadillac CT6 gasoline models was released two weeks ago, but pricing for the Plug-In hybrid is not yet available.

 

The 2016 Cadillac CT6 goes on sale in March 2016 with the Plug-In hybrid going on sale later in the year.

 

 

Source: Cadillac Media

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[smk4565]

Hopefully they price it or below the TT V6 model, they have to price it cheaper than the ELR.  Interesting now the transmission works.

 

Memo to Cadillac, put this drive train in the ATS sedan and coupe, and kill off the ELR.

[Suaviloquent]

I wouldn't be surprised if its priced the same or a little above the TTV6. Given that Mercedes does the same for the S-Class. Or is that too convenient an example?

 

Why does it have to be less than the ELR? Again, if the ELR was the size of a CT6, the it'd be a whole another vehicle. 

 

Basically swap the name ELR with CT6 Plug-in or Chinese 4.0T (WTF Chinese market?) and this is what we all wish the ELR really had been.

 

If it is priced as the 3.0TT and above, it'd still be lower than the V8 we know for sure this vehicle will be getting. 

 

Too easy to come to these conclusions. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Don't quote me on this, but I believe I remember something about the PHEV being offered only in the upper two trims. So that will bump the price up a bit. 

[smk4565]

The TT V6 model is probably only the middle and high trims.  The hybrid shouldn't cost any more than the TT V6.  The cheapest S-class you can buy is the plug-in hybrid, and they probably don't even sell many of them.  I think if Cadillac wants to sell any hybrids it needs to be cheap.  This is the problem facing all electric cars and hybrids.  Gas is cheap and here people don't care about fuel savings, people would rather pay $85,000 for an Escalade that gets 15 mpg than to buy a CT6 hybrid.

 

Until they apply a gas guzzler tax to any vehicle under 25 mpg EPA combined number, people won't look for a hybrid or electric.  With the exception of the tree hugger crowd that buy the Prius.

[Robert Hall]

A CT6 V-series would probably outsell the hybrid..

[G. David Felt]

The days of gas guzzling V8, V10 or even V12 are limited. The mass sales will be the TTV6 or in MB case TTI6. Hybrid will get a bigger push as they focus on meeting the new emission and MPG requirements.

 

I expect both the Hybrid and TTV6 to do very well. The V series in this car will be like the AMG a halo auto with limited sales.

[Drew Dowdell]

Out with my Cadillac bud at the bar last night.  He wouldn't give me a number, but I asked about it in context of the 3.0TT... as in higher or lower than that engine.  It will cost more than the 3.0TT.

 

And when you think about it... why wouldn't it?  A twin turbo V6 costs a lot less to make than a new twin-motor hybrid transmission and a Voltec size battery. 

[ccap41]

I love the idea of a plug-in hybrid. I feel it gives you a lot more opportunity to take advantage of the electricity for those who have short commutes, like myself. I'd only use gas in that thing on the weekends probably.

Out with my Cadillac bud at the bar last night.  He wouldn't give me a number, but I asked about it in context of the 3.0TT... as in higher or lower than that engine.  It will cost more than the 3.0TT.

 

And when you think about it... why wouldn't it?  A twin turbo V6 costs a lot less to make than a new twin-motor hybrid transmission and a Voltec size battery. 

The reason it wouldn't, in my opinion, is to push the technology out there to more people and then the little better CAFE score if they sell more as well. As small of a bump it would be...a better score is a better score.

[Drew Dowdell]

I love the idea of a plug-in hybrid. I feel it gives you a lot more opportunity to take advantage of the electricity for those who have short commutes, like myself. I'd only use gas in that thing on the weekends probably.

Out with my Cadillac bud at the bar last night.  He wouldn't give me a number, but I asked about it in context of the 3.0TT... as in higher or lower than that engine.  It will cost more than the 3.0TT.

 

And when you think about it... why wouldn't it?  A twin turbo V6 costs a lot less to make than a new twin-motor hybrid transmission and a Voltec size battery. 

The reason it wouldn't, in my opinion, is to push the technology out there to more people and then the little better CAFE score if they sell more as well. As small of a bump it would be...a better score is a better score.

 

That would be GM taking a hit on profits though. I think they'll justify the price increase by limiting the powertrain to the highest of trims... Platinum and Premium Luxury.  The 3.0TT is available in Luxury, Premium Luxury, and Platinum.

[smk4565]

Out with my Cadillac bud at the bar last night.  He wouldn't give me a number, but I asked about it in context of the 3.0TT... as in higher or lower than that engine.  It will cost more than the 3.0TT.

 

And when you think about it... why wouldn't it?  A twin turbo V6 costs a lot less to make than a new twin-motor hybrid transmission and a Voltec size battery. 

If it is more than the 3.0TT it won't sell.  Luxury buyers are going to want performance and smooth power delivery over fuel savings.  So you are asking buyers to pay more money for less horsepower to get fuel savings.  It won't work.  If you price it the same as a 3.0TT, then at least you offer the choice or power or economy at the same price.

 

I know there is battery cost, but a 2.0T engine you can find in $25k cars, it can't cost that much to make one of those.  This is why I think this technology is better on a Silverado or Escalade that might only get 18 mpg, you can push it to 30 mpg, which is a huge fuel savings.  

[smk4565]

I love the idea of a plug-in hybrid. I feel it gives you a lot more opportunity to take advantage of the electricity for those who have short commutes, like myself. I'd only use gas in that thing on the weekends probably.

Out with my Cadillac bud at the bar last night.  He wouldn't give me a number, but I asked about it in context of the 3.0TT... as in higher or lower than that engine.  It will cost more than the 3.0TT.

 

And when you think about it... why wouldn't it?  A twin turbo V6 costs a lot less to make than a new twin-motor hybrid transmission and a Voltec size battery. 

The reason it wouldn't, in my opinion, is to push the technology out there to more people and then the little better CAFE score if they sell more as well. As small of a bump it would be...a better score is a better score.

Which imagine the CAFE help if it was applied to SUVs and trucks.  Rather than a low volume Cadillac.  They could put a 15 mpg V12 in the CT6 as the base engine and sell it for $60k, they'd still only sell 3% the volume of what the Silverado sells.  Cadillac shouldn't  have to pay the CAFE piper at GM, let Chevy do that.

[ccap41]

I love the idea of a plug-in hybrid. I feel it gives you a lot more opportunity to take advantage of the electricity for those who have short commutes, like myself. I'd only use gas in that thing on the weekends probably.

Out with my Cadillac bud at the bar last night.  He wouldn't give me a number, but I asked about it in context of the 3.0TT... as in higher or lower than that engine.  It will cost more than the 3.0TT.

 

And when you think about it... why wouldn't it?  A twin turbo V6 costs a lot less to make than a new twin-motor hybrid transmission and a Voltec size battery.

The reason it wouldn't, in my opinion, is to push the technology out there to more people and then the little better CAFE score if they sell more as well. As small of a bump it would be...a better score is a better score.

Which imagine the CAFE help if it was applied to SUVs and trucks.  Rather than a low volume Cadillac.  They could put a 15 mpg V12 in the CT6 as the base engine and sell it for $60k, they'd still only sell 3% the volume of what the Silverado sells.  Cadillac shouldn't  have to pay the CAFE piper at GM, let Chevy do that.

It's an entire team effort though. Not just a Silverado and CT6 adventure. The CT6 has a large ground coverage(wheelbase and width) which CAFE bases their scores on. And as it has been said before getting a truck to achieve the mileage is a lot different than getting a car to achieve the mileage with a hybrid.

Hybrid trucks will be there but getting the tech into the truck will push the price up so high without adding enough mileage to justify the purchaser the additional cost. I mean if you only get 1-2mpg better but spend 5k more nobody will buy them, again. Plus, based on the previous hybrid Silverado, they are much much less capable as an actual truck when in hybrid form because they weigh so much more. I mean in 09 the 4WD Silverado could only tow 6100 lbs. Yes, technology has changed and advanced ALOT since then but they will still weigh more and be less capable as a truck.

There will be a time and place for a hybrid truck and whoever does it again I think will have it done much better than in the past, whoever It may be.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Just as an FYI, the amount of hybrid integration into their (Ford / Lincoln)  future products is massive across pretty much every segment.  I expect the same at GM and other automakers as well. 

Edited November 22, 2015 by Wings4Life

[smk4565]

CAFE is stupid because it factors in footprint.  They should remove that out of the equation and go strictly on miles per gallon, regardless of vehicle size.  That would force auto makers to make all vehicles more efficient and demand for pickups and SUVs is huge.  If people want a pick-up bad enough they will pay an extra $5,000 for it.  And manufacturers will also cut margins on pick ups to keep the volume up.  Just as they have cut margins on family sedans due to competition.

 

If the CT6 can get 65 mpg-e, I don't see why the same technology couldn't yield 40 mpg-e on a Silverado or Escalade, and near 30 on gas-hybrid combo.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

CAFE is stupid because it factors in footprint.  They should remove that out of the equation and go strictly on miles per gallon, regardless of vehicle size.  That would force auto makers to make all vehicles more efficient and demand for pickups and SUVs is huge.  If people want a pick-up bad enough they will pay an extra $5,000 for it.  And manufacturers will also cut margins on pick ups to keep the volume up.  Just as they have cut margins on family sedans due to competition.

 

If the CT6 can get 65 mpg-e, I don't see why the same technology couldn't yield 40 mpg-e on a Silverado or Escalade, and near 30 on gas-hybrid combo.

I am not an advocate of CAFE, but emissions reductions is just as important as reducing fuel consumption.  And we will all pay dearly to achieve all the above in the coming years.  We have not even scratched that surface.  I predict we will soon be spending twice what we are saving in fuel costs.  How can anyone be excited about that?  I can't.

[smk4565]

The biggest fuel savings in fact comes from the internal combustion engine.  10-15 years ago the average sedan had a 3+ liter V6, now most are coming with 1.6 liter turbo 4's making the same horsepower, but getting 10 mpg more.  Ford is making 2.7 liter V6 F150's and it sells better than ever with better fuel economy than ever.  As more small displacement turbos and 8-10 speed transmissions get in cars, that will push fuel economy up without adding all that much cost to a car.  Batteries will make cars cost more, until that price drops, plug-ins and electrics will be slow sellers.

 

This is also why a gas guzzler tax makes more sense than CAFE.  If there as a $3,000 gas guzzler tax on every pickup getting below 22 mpg city/highway combined, don't you think the big 3 would put a hybrid system on all of them to beat that $3,000 tax?  I think gas guzzler tax should be universal, if a Bentley has a $3,000 gas guzzler tax, same should apply to a Toyota Tundra V8 getting the same mileage.  Make the gas guzzler tax the same on all vehicles, and you'll see massive fuel economy gains.  And competition will keep price down, all these car makers compete on price.

[surreal1272]

CAFE is stupid because it factors in footprint.  They should remove that out of the equation and go strictly on miles per gallon, regardless of vehicle size.  That would force auto makers to make all vehicles more efficient and demand for pickups and SUVs is huge.  If people want a pick-up bad enough they will pay an extra $5,000 for it.  And manufacturers will also cut margins on pick ups to keep the volume up.  Just as they have cut margins on family sedans due to competition.

 

If the CT6 can get 65 mpg-e, I don't see why the same technology couldn't yield 40 mpg-e on a Silverado or Escalade, and near 30 on gas-hybrid combo.

It's like you completely ignored the previous pages explaining why going the full size hybrid truck route is difficult as well as pointless, as far the truck market is concerned. 

 

Edited November 25, 2015 by surreal1272