LA Auto Show: 2017 Buick LaCrosse: Comments

[smk4565]

The LaCrosse absolutely competes with the Toyota Avalon, that is the car is was modeled after pretty much.  The Avalon actually has a higher base price than the LaCrosse, so do the Cadenza and Azera.   The Lexus ES costs more than all of those cars, and until a couple years ago the Lexus ES was about the size of a Regal.  

 

Buick is not a luxury brand either, it is a premium brand.  Cadillac is the luxury brand of GM.  If you want more than 300 hp buy a Cadillac.  This is also why I have been saying Cadillac should make the 3.6 V6 base in the CTS and CT6, 3.0TT as a mid-level volume engine.  Buick doesn't need a 400 hp car, Cadillac makes 400 hp cars.

 

Lincoln can put all the power they want into the MKZ, it is still a Fusion.  The 400 hp is to cover up the inferior chassis underneath.  And that won't really help sales all that much, it might just get some people that were going to buy an MKZ anyway to spend more money on it.

[smk4565]

 

Start/Stop and 8-speeds have been around for a few years. I saw a Ford engineer say that 90% of 2017 Escapes will be sold with start/stop, this is pretty standard stuff now, I think in 2020 it will be as common as ABS.

The Lacrosse will be fast enough for what it is. 305 HP is a lot for front wheel drive. And it is more important that a car like the Lacrosse has enough power to move around with the engine at 3,000 rpm or less. The typical Lacrosse buyer doesn't want to be revving to 6,000 rpm and bearing engine noise all the time.

 

How many vehicles have start/stop, cylinder deactivation, AND 8-speeds or more? I'll wait, it's a super short list.

 

Start/stop and cylinder cutoff have been around a while.  I think every BMW has had start/stop and an 8 speed the past 3 years.  Lexus had an 8-speed transmission 9 years ago.   I also heard a Ford engineer say that start/stop gave about a 5% gain in city fuel economy.  So that is going from 20 to 21 mpg.  Not a deal breaker for most people.  

 

I think a 300 hp V6 with start/stop, 8 speed auto, 22/31 mpg is what is expected in a $35,000 car.  The Chrysler 300 had 300 hp and 31 mpg and an 8 speed n 2012.  That is just what is expected of the segment.  I think the Lacrosse engine is what the buyers want and expect.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

 

 

So, this is like the complete opposite of the MKZ. The exterior and interior are very well done, if not a bit too understated. The powertrain is bit disappointing, though. I would have liked to see something more than just the run-of-mill V6. I suppose Buick still has to cater to its long-living demographic regardless of what the advertising will tell you. 

 

The new powertrain is hardly run of the mill. The V6 has start/stop and cylinder deactivation mated to a brand new 8-speed. With a huge drop in curb weight, this big sedan is likely to be QUICK (like running mid-14s) and still achieve over 20/30 mpg.

 

 

I'm sorry... is that really considered quick these days? My 11 year old Avalon would run mid-14s and hit 60 in about 6 seconds (and would do over 31 mpg highway), which is likely where the new LaCrosse will be at. I wasn't wowed by that car's power, so I'm not going to be wowed by this either. The current LaCrosse is a 2-ton porker, so losing 300lbs merely brings it back down to average weight and performance for the class. Again, there's nothing exciting here. It's a run-of-the-mill powertrain in every single way for the year 2017. Kthxbai. 

 

What I would really like to see is the MKZ's powertrain with the LaCrosse's body. Perfect boulevard cruiser.

 

 

 

 

Second the idea that your 2010HP 2004 Avalon is going to be faster than the new LaX, while getting superior fuel economy is ridiculous. The 2004 Camry SE barely pulled it off with a 14.6 seconds @ 97.0 mph, and was lighter. This Lacrosse, should certainly improve upon the numbers laid by my heavier Impala.. Fuel economy is certainly going into the 30s.. 

 

I love the idea of Run of the Mill when is incorporating start/stop, cylinder deactivation and an 8-speed tranny.. all wrapped in a sweet honey bun of an exterior. U want 12 second 1/4 miles.. go buy a Cadillac.. or even a Chevy. Buick is about smooth luxury. Everyone doesn't need their car to be a performance car.. and that's coming from some one who predominately has REAL performance cars.

 

 

Excuse my typo, I meant 10 year old.

 

My 2005 Avalon weighed a hair over 3600lbs, was rated at 280 hp, quoted at 14.6 seconds @ 99 mph in the quarter and 6.0 seconds to 60, and was rated at 22/31 mpg.

 

I'm not saying the LaCrosse won't be able to match it, I simply don't see it exceeding it by much, if at all. Also, for what it's worth, 10 years on, and the Avalon hasn't improved upon itself either. It is also just run-of-the-mill these days. It's not necessarily a bad thing for Buick to do the same, but there's nothing exciting here besides an 8 speed auto that others have had for years. With Buick itself stating they are perfectly happy with the LaCrosse being their flagship sedan, I would've expected more... a risk or two. Instead, it's been played safe, likely to keep its current cult of owners happy. Meanwhile, Lincoln, which is basically just a Buick competitor these days, is taking those risks... It's just too bad they don't have a better stylist. 

 

 

I'm not sure there will be a big bump in highway fuel economy. It will probably be conservatively rated around 31-32 mpg highway.  However it's city MPG should improve lending to an improvement in combined fuel economy.  Shutting off the engine at a stop and running on 4-cylinders from 25 mph - 65 mph at steady speed will help.

 

Look at where the current Lacrosse (3.6 V6 - 6Auto) is compared to the Cadillac CTS with an 8-speed, Start-Stop, and AFM.

 

 

The Cadillac added Start/Stop and AFM to get a 2mpg combined increase. However, weight remained the same and the transmission, while new, has the same number of gears.

 

Now look at the ATS changes. It went from a 6-speed auto to an 8-speed auto and gained Start-Stop and AFM.  

 

 

Weight stayed the same.  It too gained a 2 mpg bump in fuel economy.

 

 

So the 2017 Lacrosse gains an 8-speed + AFM + Start/Stop while also losing a few hundred pounds plus some minor aero tweaks.

 

A 2mpg increase over the current model can be the least expected while there is certainly the possibility for more if they put a taller final drive ratio than the CTS/ATS into it. 

[cp-the-nerd]

 

 

Start/Stop and 8-speeds have been around for a few years. I saw a Ford engineer say that 90% of 2017 Escapes will be sold with start/stop, this is pretty standard stuff now, I think in 2020 it will be as common as ABS.

The Lacrosse will be fast enough for what it is. 305 HP is a lot for front wheel drive. And it is more important that a car like the Lacrosse has enough power to move around with the engine at 3,000 rpm or less. The typical Lacrosse buyer doesn't want to be revving to 6,000 rpm and bearing engine noise all the time.

 

How many vehicles have start/stop, cylinder deactivation, AND 8-speeds or more? I'll wait, it's a super short list.

 

Start/stop and cylinder cutoff have been around a while.  I think every BMW has had start/stop and an 8 speed the past 3 years.  Lexus had an 8-speed transmission 9 years ago.   I also heard a Ford engineer say that start/stop gave about a 5% gain in city fuel economy.  So that is going from 20 to 21 mpg.  Not a deal breaker for most people.  

 

I think a 300 hp V6 with start/stop, 8 speed auto, 22/31 mpg is what is expected in a $35,000 car.  The Chrysler 300 had 300 hp and 31 mpg and an 8 speed n 2012.  That is just what is expected of the segment.  I think the Lacrosse engine is what the buyers want and expect.

 

 

That's not what I asked. Here it is again:

 

How many vehicles have start/stop, cylinder deactivation, AND 8-speeds or more?

 

In other words: what vehicles feature all three of those technologies?

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Shame seeing this after Buick showed us this.

 

 

 

And I don't really see any styling elements from it.

Such a shame.

[smk4565]

 

 

 

Start/Stop and 8-speeds have been around for a few years. I saw a Ford engineer say that 90% of 2017 Escapes will be sold with start/stop, this is pretty standard stuff now, I think in 2020 it will be as common as ABS.

The Lacrosse will be fast enough for what it is. 305 HP is a lot for front wheel drive. And it is more important that a car like the Lacrosse has enough power to move around with the engine at 3,000 rpm or less. The typical Lacrosse buyer doesn't want to be revving to 6,000 rpm and bearing engine noise all the time.

 

How many vehicles have start/stop, cylinder deactivation, AND 8-speeds or more? I'll wait, it's a super short list.

 

Start/stop and cylinder cutoff have been around a while.  I think every BMW has had start/stop and an 8 speed the past 3 years.  Lexus had an 8-speed transmission 9 years ago.   I also heard a Ford engineer say that start/stop gave about a 5% gain in city fuel economy.  So that is going from 20 to 21 mpg.  Not a deal breaker for most people.  

 

I think a 300 hp V6 with start/stop, 8 speed auto, 22/31 mpg is what is expected in a $35,000 car.  The Chrysler 300 had 300 hp and 31 mpg and an 8 speed n 2012.  That is just what is expected of the segment.  I think the Lacrosse engine is what the buyers want and expect.

 

 

That's not what I asked. Here it is again:

 

How many vehicles have start/stop, cylinder deactivation, AND 8-speeds or more?

 

In other words: what vehicles feature all three of those technologies?

 

Not many because most manufacturers don't use cylinder deactivation.  The more common path is smaller displacement with turbos.  Personally I don't even like start/stop, I turn it off when I get in a car that has it.  You can cherry pick 3 attributes from any car to say why don't others have it.  

 

I think it is good that the LaCrosse has an 8 speed, since cars like the 300 have 8 speeds, Acura and Chrysler 200 have 9 speeds.  This is where the market has gone.  I like that they used a V6 in the LaCrosse either, I think it fits the car better than a highly boosted turbo 4.

 

I don't think fuel economy matters a whole lot to most buyers.  Look at sales of pick ups, SUVs, crossovers, etc.  Cars win in handling, braking, ride, acceleration and fuel economy and still get outsold by the trucks.   People will trade that fuel economy away because gas is cheap here.

Edited November 21, 2015 by smk4565

[Robert Hall]

I like how Buick has brought back the colors to the badge...not sure when this happened, but I recall them eliminating them some years ago..

[Drew Dowdell]

I like how Buick has brought back the colors to the badge...not sure when this happened, but I recall them eliminating them some years ago..

2002

[Cmicasa the Great]

Shame seeing this after Buick showed us this.

 

 

 

 

And I don't really see any styling elements from it.

Such a shame.

 

 

 

actually its still a possibility that the Avenir is coming.. altho if U don't see the the similarities in these cars then U are just blind.. and attempting to bait. U remind me of one other hatin MOFOS that hates a particular competitor car.. but then suddenly when a NEW one debuts.. U say how much U loved the previous one, and U wish they hadn't changed it..  because the new one is your new target

 

 

 

 

 

and that ass tho.. YUMMMY

 

[ccap41]

^ that Avenir is a gorgeous car. I've just never been a Buick fan. But if/when this gets produced it could very well change my mind.

[ocnblu]

I am going to change my posted opinion on this car after coming to realize how it blends Avenir with first-gen LaCrosse and comes out the other end looking GAWJUSSSSS.

 

Also, wayback machine dictates that I dredge up the fact that I found the second-gen LaCrosse looked too high and narrow when it debuted.  This one has no problem looking long, low and wider.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Funny, I was just going to change my original thoughts of how it looks good overall, with a C- grade in the styling department instead (previously about a B+ in my eyes).

.  

Also funny, how some new designs look strange at first, but you eventually or quickly warm to them and either grow appreciate them or finally recognize just how the look evolved or advanced, etc.  But somehow, the more I look at this, the less I am interested and the more I yearn for the sexy Avenir instead.

 

And that high gloss, overly wrought wood interior looks very plain to me, and something a much older demographic might enjoy.

[ocnblu]

duly noted

[smk4565]

I think the interior looks good.  It is clean and simple, not overly tacky or loaded with buttons like some Acuras.  I think the interior is the strong point of this car, it looks better than the Azera or Cadenza or Avalon.

[daves87rs]

Mixed on this. The interior is a winner. The exterior, I'd have to see it in person.

 

 

 

+1

 

 

Pretty much my thought as well.....though I do like the rear of the car here...

[Drew Dowdell]

This is sofa king stew pit :

 

http://www.paulstravelpictures.com/2008-2012-GM-Chevrolet-Malibu-Headlight-Bulbs-Replacement-Guide/

 

Where would you like me to move this since it appears to be in the wrong thread?

[surreal1272]

Funny, I was just going to change my original thoughts of how it looks good overall, with a C- grade in the styling department instead (previously about a B+ in my eyes).

.  

Also funny, how some new designs look strange at first, but you eventually or quickly warm to them and either grow appreciate them or finally recognize just how the look evolved or advanced, etc.  But somehow, the more I look at this, the less I am interested and the more I yearn for the sexy Avenir instead.

 

And that high gloss, overly wrought wood interior looks very plain to me, and something a much older demographic might enjoy.

The high gloss wood is an option, just like it is on the Lincolns that have it.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

Funny, I was just going to change my original thoughts of how it looks good overall, with a C- grade in the styling department instead (previously about a B+ in my eyes).

.  

Also funny, how some new designs look strange at first, but you eventually or quickly warm to them and either grow appreciate them or finally recognize just how the look evolved or advanced, etc.  But somehow, the more I look at this, the less I am interested and the more I yearn for the sexy Avenir instead.

 

And that high gloss, overly wrought wood interior looks very plain to me, and something a much older demographic might enjoy.

The high gloss wood is an option, just like it is on the Lincolns that have it.

 

No Lincoln today has that much wood, gloss or not.

[ocnblu]

 

 

Funny, I was just going to change my original thoughts of how it looks good overall, with a C- grade in the styling department instead (previously about a B+ in my eyes).

.  

Also funny, how some new designs look strange at first, but you eventually or quickly warm to them and either grow appreciate them or finally recognize just how the look evolved or advanced, etc.  But somehow, the more I look at this, the less I am interested and the more I yearn for the sexy Avenir instead.

 

And that high gloss, overly wrought wood interior looks very plain to me, and something a much older demographic might enjoy.

The high gloss wood is an option, just like it is on the Lincolns that have it.

 

No Lincoln today has that much wood, gloss or not.

 

You're right about that.  The whole brand is pretty flaccid right now.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

^

Flaccid? As in yet another year of leading luxury brands in terms of sales gains?

[smk4565]

Even that new MKZ has a ton of plastic on the dash, you can tell it is a Fusion underneath.  A 400 hp twin turbo V6 is great, but without a rear drive chassis it is wasted.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Even that new MKZ has a ton of plastic on the dash, you can tell it is a Fusion underneath.  A 400 hp twin turbo V6 is great, but without a rear drive chassis it is wasted.

 

Not true, plenty of premium materials like carbon fiber, aluminum, stitching, etc.

And their vector controlled AWD is superior to any RWD and the equal of any RWD biased AWD.

[surreal1272]

 

 

Funny, I was just going to change my original thoughts of how it looks good overall, with a C- grade in the styling department instead (previously about a B+ in my eyes).

.  

Also funny, how some new designs look strange at first, but you eventually or quickly warm to them and either grow appreciate them or finally recognize just how the look evolved or advanced, etc.  But somehow, the more I look at this, the less I am interested and the more I yearn for the sexy Avenir instead.

 

And that high gloss, overly wrought wood interior looks very plain to me, and something a much older demographic might enjoy.

The high gloss wood is an option, just like it is on the Lincolns that have it.

 

No Lincoln today has that much wood, gloss or not.

 

Doesn't matter. They do have it. That's all I saying while you try to pick apart a car not made by Ford.

 

Oh wait, they do have that and then some. It's just in the Navigator.

Edited November 22, 2015 by surreal1272

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

^

 

Nothing close to the amount found in the Buick.

 

Anyway, stop making this about Lincoln surreal. This is about the less-than-inspirational reveal of a new Buick.

[Suaviloquent]

Look I love the fact that people have their own personal opinions of what constitutes a good or bad amount of a certain kind of trim, but do we have to bog down this thread with irrelevant things to this thread?

 

Can ye move on?

 

If we want a debate, let's make a new thread about just that, acceptable amounts of wood grain (fake or real) in an interior. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

^

Zactly

[Suaviloquent]

^

Zactly

 

 

 

What I'm saying applies to you as well.

[surreal1272]

Look I love the fact that people have their own personal opinions of what constitutes a good or bad amount of a certain kind of trim, but do we have to bog down this thread with irrelevant things to this thread?

 

Can ye move on?

 

If we want a debate, let's make a new thread about just that, acceptable amounts of wood grain (fake or real) in an interior. 

Lincoln is direct competition for Buick so when someone brings up things like wood grain as being a negative on one brand while completely ignoring the fact that the competition does the same thing, then it is perfectly legitimate for me to point that out. No trolling at all on my part nor was it meant to be. Just an honest observation on that. If certain people can't handle a simple reputable, then perhaps they are in the wrong place. 

 

I do understand where you are coming from though and will tone down the rhetoric.

Edited November 22, 2015 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

Not once did I say that you didn't have a right to your opinion. That's all you. What it means though, is that I also have the right to offer a counter opinion, i.e. you conveyed a negative connotation about the wood trim by mentioning the older demographic as a negative. Nothing more, nothing less. Funny how you pick and choose the "other car" argument. That's all I will say about that.

 

Now, about the Buick, while it's not my cup of tea, the Avenir front end is nice but I don't care much for the profile. Just doesn't resonate with me. The interior, however, is way above the outgoing model though, and for their target audience it will score in spades. Overall, a solid B+ from me.

 

Note to Buick though. Put out the Avenir. It is quite frankly only the second Buick I have ever really wanted (the GNX being the other). Seriously people. Make it happen. 

Edited November 22, 2015 by Suaviloquent
Good. Just removed the qouted posts.

[surreal1272]

Then you are reading what you want to read and no one can help you with that.

 

Now, again, about the Buick...

Edited November 22, 2015 by Suaviloquent
Removed quoted posts and toned it down.

[Suaviloquent]

Yes, Buick is setting a nice stage of upgraded product with the Lacrosse leading the way.

 

Now, I'm not sure if it was mentioned, but will the Lacrosse get AWD?

 

Furthermore

 

Could Buick simply shrink this car to give us a new Regal? Any thoughts on that? 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

 

Funny, I was just going to change my original thoughts of how it looks good overall, with a C- grade in the styling department instead (previously about a B+ in my eyes).

.  

Also funny, how some new designs look strange at first, but you eventually or quickly warm to them and either grow appreciate them or finally recognize just how the look evolved or advanced, etc.  But somehow, the more I look at this, the less I am interested and the more I yearn for the sexy Avenir instead.

 

And that high gloss, overly wrought wood interior looks very plain to me, and something a much older demographic might enjoy.

The high gloss wood is an option, just like it is on the Lincolns that have it.

 

No Lincoln today has that much wood, gloss or not.

 

Doesn't matter. They do have it. That's all I saying while you try to pick apart a car not made by Ford.

 

Oh wait, they do have that and then some. It's just in the Navigator.

 

 

 

Since suave deleted my replies to surreal, I will repeat again, but this time to the post in question.

 

Yes surreal, thank you for pointing out that Lincolns also have wood, but my point was simply that this Buick uses too much of it.

 

Care to discuss that, or do you have another obvious fact you can present?

Yes, Buick is setting a nice stage of upgraded product with the Lacrosse leading the way.

 

Now, I'm not sure if it was mentioned, but will the Lacrosse get AWD?

 

Furthermore

 

Could Buick simply shrink this car to give us a new Regal? Any thoughts on that? 

 

God I hope not.

The Regal needs to remain somewhat stylish and youthful for the segment.  Current Regal is the best looking Buick.

[ocnblu]

New LaCrosse has optional AWD.

[regfootball]

Shame seeing this after Buick showed us this.

 

 

 

And I don't really see any styling elements from it.

Such a shame.

right

 

gm is purposely 'debuicking their lineup, envision is a chinese x5, lacrosse has a nice azera vibe going on.

 

not that they aren't bad to look at, they are just stripped of their buick.  the avenir still has the buick.  i'd could set my 77 century coupe, or a 95 riviera, or a boattail riviera, or a 92 park avenue, and they would look in perfect company.

 

remember catera?  they stripped it of its cadillac

Edited November 22, 2015 by regfootball

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

^

Call me crazy but, I kind of liked the Catera.

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

 

Funny, I was just going to change my original thoughts of how it looks good overall, with a C- grade in the styling department instead (previously about a B+ in my eyes).

.  

Also funny, how some new designs look strange at first, but you eventually or quickly warm to them and either grow appreciate them or finally recognize just how the look evolved or advanced, etc.  But somehow, the more I look at this, the less I am interested and the more I yearn for the sexy Avenir instead.

 

And that high gloss, overly wrought wood interior looks very plain to me, and something a much older demographic might enjoy.

The high gloss wood is an option, just like it is on the Lincolns that have it.

 

 

 

 

Since suave deleted my replies to surreal, I will repeat again, but this time to the post in question.

 

Yes surreal, thank you for pointing out that Lincolns also have wood, but my point was simply that this Buick uses too much of it.

 

Care to discuss that, or do you have another obvious fact you can present?

 

 

 

 

Buick is doing just fine, regardless of which age demographic they may be targeting. How's that for the obvious?

Edited November 23, 2015 by surreal1272

[regfootball]

^

Call me crazy but, I kind of liked the Catera.

 

I had some like for it also, but was it really identifiable as a Cadillac, 

[G. David Felt]

Shame seeing this after Buick showed us this.

 

 

 

And I don't really see any styling elements from it.

Such a shame.

More Auto Companies need to go back to having true design style that does not copy the competition in being mass production blah.

[surreal1272]

 

^

Call me crazy but, I kind of liked the Catera.

 

I had some like for it also, but was it really identifiable as a Cadillac, 

 

The Catera was absolute garbage and a maintenance nightmare. It was the most "unCadillac" of all Cadillacs this side of a Cimarron. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

The best part of the Opel-based “caddy that zigs” was the fact that Cindy Crawford was part of their marketing blitz.

 

http://www.theautochannel.com/media/photos/cadillac/1997/97_cadillac_catera-2.jpg[/img]

 

But keep in mind, it was being sold when there were still other cadillacs that looked like this,

http://www.mcsmk8.com/PAST-CARS/96CAD-01.JPG[/img]

 

 

If I recall correctly, one of my likes with Caterra was a much improved interior over current Cadillacs and of course the price.

[Drew Dowdell]

Come on guys, if you want a Catera thread you are welcome to start one in the Cadillac Forum

[surreal1272]

Come on guys, if you want a Catera thread you are welcome to start one in the Cadillac Forum

Only one person wants that, it seems. I am not that person because the car was garbage and that is all I have to say about it.

[El Kabong]

This Buick is a pretty sweet ride. Distractifying ain't gonna change that.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

Come on guys, if you want a Catera thread you are welcome to start one in the Cadillac Forum

Only one person wants that, it seems. I am not that person because the car was garbage and that is all I have to say about it.

 

 

There were three people who commented on that vehicle, including yourself.

[El Kabong]

Distractifying time is over now.

The Buick, please.

[Suaviloquent]

Well, I infer that because the GKN AWD system will be used, it can definitely handle a good amount of power.

 

I expect 5 years from now, some future updated version of the LGW might just end up in a Buick. 

 

They really should consider making some sleeper sedans juice.

[El Kabong]

Well, I infer that because the GKN AWD system will be used, it can definitely handle a good amount of power.

 

I expect 5 years from now, some future updated version of the LGW might just end up in a Buick. 

 

They really should consider making some sleeper sedans juice.

I'm all for an Impala SS with the outgoing Caddy XTS-V driveline, personally.

[Suaviloquent]

New LaCrosse has optional AWD.

 

Ye

[surreal1272]

 

 

Come on guys, if you want a Catera thread you are welcome to start one in the Cadillac Forum

Only one person wants that, it seems. I am not that person because the car was garbage and that is all I have to say about it.

 

 

There were three people who commented on that vehicle, including yourself.

 

Yes and I said it was garbage, end of story. Besides, this not about the poster right? It's supposed to be about the subject. Moving along...

[El Kabong]

Buick: American luxury, with coherent styling.