Go. All. The. Way: '16 Camaro Motortrend Car of the Year

[surreal1272]

 

 

From the link:

 

We Don’t Like: Missed opportunity to further evolve the Camaro’s design

 

I think that really hurts the camaro's chances, both winning the award and beating Mustang where it clearly counts most, sales.

Now does this rule apply to all cars? The reason why I ask is that you were singing a completely different tune a few months ago in regards to the Expedition vs. Tahoe. Why do sales only matter when Ford is winning but they don't matter when they losing badly? It's a simple question.

 

And again with you focusing only on the negative when it suits you. Per the same article:

"We Like: Lightweight new platform, screaming engines."

 

 

sales always matter. how do you not know this?  especially in a segment that lives or dies by those sales.

I am concerned that poor sales could take away what is Mustangs only real competition.

 

And missing the point yet again. You dodged the sales statement at every turn while supporting the reviews that favored the Expedition over the Tahoe. It's the exact same thing that is going on here but you have reversed your stance. Head to head, thus far, the Camaro has outperformed the Mustang, but you lean on sales as your only argument. When it was the Expy and the Tahoe, you were oh so silent on the sales front. Wonder why?

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

Says the person who was so jealous over the SS win against the GT the other week, that he had to start his own "Shelby coming in 2017" thread. Oh the irony of some of the stuff you say.

 

 

 

"And the numbers all break the Camaro's way."

 

As I said, not all numbers.

Not by a Mustang Mile.

 

 

And it just occurred to me, you soooo jelly about Shelby win......that's what this is all about.

 

So obvious.

okeedokeee, stepping out for the evening.  tootles

 

But those sales Bong, those wonderful wonderful sales! It just makes you want to sing to the heavens!

 

 

Business as usual with you, poorly policing my every remark.

 

Any thoughts at all on the subject matter?

Any at all?

 

Nothing was poorly policed except in that biased mind of yours. 

 

DO you actually have any thoughts on the matter? All I have seen is pure trolling here on your part while you complain about that very thing on your GT350R thread. 

 

BTW, I already stated that the Civic will probably win. Guess you missed that part, which is not surprising since all you do is focus on the negative.

 

 

 

Yeah, and I also made many comments on the subject matter, of which you totally ignored too.

 

You made not one comment before the one you posted about an hour ago, which was after I called you out. Nice try at ignoring the simple little fact though. 

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

From the link:

 

We Don’t Like: Missed opportunity to further evolve the Camaro’s design

 

I think that really hurts the camaro's chances, both winning the award and beating Mustang where it clearly counts most, sales.

Now does this rule apply to all cars? The reason why I ask is that you were singing a completely different tune a few months ago in regards to the Expedition vs. Tahoe. Why do sales only matter when Ford is winning but they don't matter when they losing badly? It's a simple question.

 

And again with you focusing only on the negative when it suits you. Per the same article:

"We Like: Lightweight new platform, screaming engines."

 

 

sales always matter. how do you not know this?  especially in a segment that lives or dies by those sales.

I am concerned that poor sales could take away what is Mustangs only real competition.

 

 

Sales numbers are not a criteria for the MT award. 

 

And, I'm afraid I have to "concern troll" your concern trolling.  Camaro is not going out of production.  In the unlikely event that sales do not increase with the new model, even keeping it at 86k a year would be more than enough to keep it in production since it actually has other cars on the platform to share with.  An advantage that the Mustang currently does not enjoy... nor does it seem it will enjoy that benefit anytime soon.

I don't know what GM's obligations are to it's shareholders, but Ford puts profits 

 

If sales always mattered then how come the F-150 didn't win TOTY the last time it was eligible?

Yeesh

topic please, which is camaro not quite winning an award....not F-150 winning pretty much everything.

 

[surreal1272]

So Jimmy Hoffa has been found (and it only took two days)?

[El Kabong]

Yes, quite.

So, as to those rumoured leaks that the Camaro didn't win COTY: if they are true I suspect that harsh words will be spoken behind the scenes, since MT appears to be making a bit of noise about the whole thing for its Monday reveal online.

Fun conspiracy time: is it possible that MT are trolling the trolls?

[Drew Dowdell]

I have reasons to believe the Civic is the winner, but nothing firmer than what has already been stated.  Just a hunch based on circumstantial evidence.

 

However, there is equal circumstantial evidence in favor of the Camaro. 

 

It's just a matter of the timing of the evidence that makes me lean towards Civic. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

uhhh, sorry surreal, you are wrong yet again.....this is not a GM thread. This is a COTY potential finalist thread, with the link that talks about that specifically, although the OP chose to focus on Ford products (Mustang and F-150) for some strange reason.

 

Now, about the topic......civic looks good. I have to side with the link suggesting camaro needed more of a cosmetic makeover, however, so it looks bleak for chevy.

Thanks

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Drew,

Ford does not have a history of killing off slow selling Mustangs....like Chevy does with camaro.  Hence my concern about pony car sales.

Just sayin

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

uhhh, sorry surreal, you are wrong yet again.....this is not a GM thread. This is a COTY potential finalist thread, with the link that talks about that specifically, although the OP chose to focus on Ford products (Mustang and F-150) for some strange reason.

 

Now, about the topic......civic looks good. I have to side with the link suggesting camaro needed more of a cosmetic makeover, however, so it looks bleak for chevy.

Thanks

 

 

Since when do you dictate the topic of the thread?   This thread is about the Camaro being a COTY finalist and debating the possibility that it takes the award. Yes there are other cars involved, but this thread is about the Camaro... it's right there in the title.

 

Drew,

Ford does not have a history of killing off slow selling Mustangs....like Chevy does with camaro.  Hence my concern about pony car sales.

Just sayin

 

Mustang II

Ford Probe

 

Ford tried to at least twice.

 

GM killed off the F-body because it wasn't shared with any other cars while the Ford Fox Body was shared with multiple cars.   In 2015, the situation is reversed. Camaro shares with some very premium brethren, while Mustang shares with nothing even though the automotive press has been practically begging For a mustang based Lincoln for years. There was a hint of it coming with the DEW98 platform, but alas it was not the case.  Once the Camaro is fully online and selling, it is likely to have a higher profit margin per unit than Mustang for that reason alone.  If it steals sales away from Mustang... then the concern should really be for Mustang with its lower per-unit profit margins..

 

.... but then there is always the Florida/California rental fleet market for Ford to turn to.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

The link in this thread is about COTY finalists.  Should we then NOT focus on that, because the OP put camaro in the thread title?

Please explain Drew, because you have confused me.

 

 

And again, Ford does NOT have a history of killing Mustang.  We all know the rumors to the contrary, and we know they don't change my remarks one iota.

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

uhhh, sorry surreal, you are wrong yet again.....this is not a GM thread. This is a COTY potential finalist thread, with the link that talks about that specifically, although the OP chose to focus on Ford products (Mustang and F-150) for some strange reason.

 

Now, about the topic......civic looks good. I have to side with the link suggesting camaro needed more of a cosmetic makeover, however, so it looks bleak for chevy.

Thanks

 

 

Since when do you dictate the topic of the thread?   This thread is about the Camaro being a COTY finalist and debating the possibility that it takes the award. Yes there are other cars involved, but this thread is about the Camaro... it's right there in the title.

 

Drew,

Ford does not have a history of killing off slow selling Mustangs....like Chevy does with camaro.  Hence my concern about pony car sales.

Just sayin

 

Mustang II

Ford Probe

 

Ford tried to at least twice.

 

GM killed off the F-body because it wasn't shared with any other cars while the Ford Fox Body was shared with multiple cars.   In 2015, the situation is reversed. Camaro shares with some very premium brethren, while Mustang shares with nothing even though the automotive press has been practically begging For a mustang based Lincoln for years. There was a hint of it coming with the DEW98 platform, but alas it was not the case.  Once the Camaro is fully online and selling, it is likely to have a higher profit margin per unit than Mustang for that reason alone.  If it steals sales away from Mustang... then the concern should really be for Mustang with its lower per-unit profit margins..

 

.... but then there is always the Florida/California rental fleet market for Ford to turn to.

 

Again, this^^! Could not have said it better myself without getting my post deleted for stating the obviousness of his dilemma. Well said Drew.

The link in this thread is about COTY finalists.  Should we then NOT focus on that, because the OP put camaro in the thread title?

Please explain Drew, because you have confused me.

 

 

And again, Ford does NOT have a history of killing Mustang.  We all know the rumors to the contrary, and we know they don't change my remarks one iota.

The title of this thread goes as follows, "

"Could. Go. All. The. Way: '16 Camaro COTY Finalist"

 

It does not say "Car of the Year Finalists". Funny how you can't tell the difference.

The link in this thread is about COTY finalists.  Should we then NOT focus on that, because the OP put camaro in the thread title?

Please explain Drew, because you have confused me.

 

 

And again, Ford does NOT have a history of killing Mustang.  We all know the rumors to the contrary, and we know they don't change my remarks one iota.

Ford almost killed it in the 90s for the Probe (Fact pointed out by Drew as well as the Mustang II reference) so crowing about this kind of silliness is just that, silliness.

Edited November 15, 2015 by surreal1272

[El Kabong]

The link in this thread is about COTY finalists. Should we then NOT focus on that, because the OP put camaro in the thread title?

Please explain Drew, because you have confused me.

And again, Ford does NOT have a history of killing Mustang. We all know the rumors to the contrary, and we know they don't change my remarks one iota.

So, anyways. Back on topic

Ya Drew, it wouldn't be a huge shock if the Civic won, but it would be a bit of a letdown.

Edited November 15, 2015 by El Kabong

[FordCosworth]

If sales always mattered then how come the F-150 didn't win TOTY the last time it was eligible?

Yeesh

What? How are they even relatable? Since when are sales reflective or critical to the award?

And the 2015 F-150 did win TOTY. Google is an ally.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Burnt Valve LS7

[El Kabong]

If sales always mattered then how come the F-150 didn't win TOTY the last time it was eligible?

Yeesh

What? How are they even relatable? Since when are sales reflective or critical to the award?

And the 2015 F-150 did win TOTY. Google is an ally.

Uh... maybe in YOUR world it did (or some publication other than Motor Trend, which is a troll tactic trolls regard as clever).

But Motor Trend's TOTY for the '15 model year was a Chevy.

Troll handle kids. Yeesh :D

[Suaviloquent]

From the link:

 

We Don’t Like: Missed opportunity to further evolve the Camaro’s design

 

I think that really hurts the camaro's chances, both winning the award and beating Mustang where it clearly counts most, sales.

 

An exceptionally weak argument. Terrible.

 

Count 3 out of the last 5 COTY winners. Fusion, Passat and Golf. All 3 did very evolutionary changes to design. The Passat can even be considered a downgrade. The Golf was the same 2-box it's even been. The Fusion just added one more razor blade to the grille to make it a Mach 3 instead of a Mach 2.

 

The Camaro does the design advancement fine. They could have improved visibility. But that's about it. 

 

Again sales numbers are misleading. Go search through here to find my post that you yourself agreed with that explained this. What matters most is contribution to profit.

 

And the Camaro is certainly doing that. And it's going to really put a damper on Mustang sales growth. The product is there, the price is spectacular for what you get and best of all it's the car that every performance car division of every automaker will take note of.

 

It's worthy of COTY.

[El Kabong]

So anyways, back on topic.

...how 'bout that Camaro. Nothing but sweet.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

If sales always mattered then how come the F-150 didn't win TOTY the last time it was eligible?

Yeesh

What? How are they even relatable? Since when are sales reflective or critical to the award?

And the 2015 F-150 did win TOTY. Google is an ally.

 

 

In what publication?

 

At MotorTrend, the 2015 Truck of the year was the Chevrolet Colorado.

 

The last time the F-150 won MT Truck of the Year was 2012.

 

2015 - Chevy Colorado

2014 - Ram 1500 EcoDiesel

2013 - Ram 1500

2012 - Ford F-150

2011 - Chevrolet Silverado HD

2010 - Ram HD

2009 - Ford F-150

[FordCosworth]

If sales always mattered then how come the F-150 didn't win TOTY the last time it was eligible?

Yeesh

What? How are they even relatable? Since when are sales reflective or critical to the award?

And the 2015 F-150 did win TOTY. Google is an ally.

 

In what publication?

 

At MotorTrend, the 2015 Truck of the year was the Chevrolet Colorado.

 

The last time the F-150 won MT Truck of the Year was 2012.

 

2015 - Chevy Colorado

2014 - Ram 1500 EcoDiesel

2013 - Ram 1500

2012 - Ford F-150

2011 - Chevrolet Silverado HD

2010 - Ram HD

2009 - Ford F-150

Truck Trend. Motor Trends TRUCK publication.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Meh, what does Truck Trend know about trucks anyway.

 

yuk-yuk.

 

 

So there is plenty of discussion here, a little smack talking as well, off topic rants, the usual.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Drew Dowdell
Removed the trolling

[El Kabong]

If sales always mattered then how come the F-150 didn't win TOTY the last time it was eligible?

Yeesh

What? How are they even relatable? Since when are sales reflective or critical to the award?

And the 2015 F-150 did win TOTY. Google is an ally.

 

In what publication?

 

At MotorTrend, the 2015 Truck of the year was the Chevrolet Colorado.

 

The last time the F-150 won MT Truck of the Year was 2012.

 

2015 - Chevy Colorado

2014 - Ram 1500 EcoDiesel

2013 - Ram 1500

2012 - Ford F-150

2011 - Chevrolet Silverado HD

2010 - Ram HD

2009 - Ford F-150

Truck Trend. Motor Trends TRUCK publication.

So, just to be clear.

You're citing both a competition and a publication that have NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THREAD.

So... what did you expect to accomplish by doing this? You've already seen that admin is cracking down on trolling. You think this is going to escape their notice?

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

 

If sales always mattered then how come the F-150 didn't win TOTY the last time it was eligible?

Yeesh

What? How are they even relatable? Since when are sales reflective or critical to the award?

And the 2015 F-150 did win TOTY. Google is an ally.

 

In what publication?

 

At MotorTrend, the 2015 Truck of the year was the Chevrolet Colorado.

 

The last time the F-150 won MT Truck of the Year was 2012.

 

2015 - Chevy Colorado

2014 - Ram 1500 EcoDiesel

2013 - Ram 1500

2012 - Ford F-150

2011 - Chevrolet Silverado HD

2010 - Ram HD

2009 - Ford F-150

Truck Trend. Motor Trends TRUCK publication.

 

 

Not the publication we're talking about.

[FordCosworth]

If sales always mattered then how come the F-150 didn't win TOTY the last time it was eligible?

Yeesh

What? How are they even relatable? Since when are sales reflective or critical to the award?

And the 2015 F-150 did win TOTY. Google is an ally.

 

In what publication?

 

At MotorTrend, the 2015 Truck of the year was the Chevrolet Colorado.

 

The last time the F-150 won MT Truck of the Year was 2012.

 

2015 - Chevy Colorado

2014 - Ram 1500 EcoDiesel

2013 - Ram 1500

2012 - Ford F-150

2011 - Chevrolet Silverado HD

2010 - Ram HD

2009 - Ford F-150

Truck Trend. Motor Trends TRUCK publication.

 

Not the publication we're talking about.

And I didn't see F-150 as the thread topic either. Yet someone dragged it in. So I mentioned it's TOTY win.

[Drew Dowdell]

And I didn't see F-150 as the thread topic either. Yet someone dragged it in. So I mentioned it's TOTY win.

 

 

[El Kabong]

At this point I should probably clarify why I cited the F-150:

I did it because the poster who was citing sales numbers in this thread was knowingly off-topic in doing so (sales numbers do not factor into COTY). The F-150 reference was an analogy that used the other poster's flawed logic to further highlight said flawed logic.

Without going into detail, admin was a bit curious about why I said it too. Hopefully this clarifies things, and we can get back to discussing the Camaro's candidacy for this year's MT Car of the Year award.

[surreal1272]

 

If sales always mattered then how come the F-150 didn't win TOTY the last time it was eligible?

Yeesh

What? How are they even relatable? Since when are sales reflective or critical to the award?

And the 2015 F-150 did win TOTY. Google is an ally.

 

They won TruckTrend Truck of the year, not the MT truck of the year, which is what he is referring to here.

[surreal1272]

Now, regarding the Camaro, it would be a mild upset for a pony car to win COTY but the competition isn't anything much to crow about to being with (with an exception to the Civic) so don't be surprised if it comes down to those two.

Edited November 16, 2015 by surreal1272

[El Kabong]

Elsewhere there's a bit of buzz for the 7-Series but I just don't see it happening.

[surreal1272]

Elsewhere there's a bit of buzz for the 7-Series but I just don't see it happening.

Can't see it either but I'm just not into BMWs as it is and this car would do nothing to change my mind.

[regfootball]

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-chevrolet-camaro-is-the-motor-trend-car-of-the-year/

 

CAMARO WINS !!!!!

Edited November 17, 2015 by regfootball

[El Kabong]

There's a fellow on another site saying " Camaro didn't win, Ed Loh said on Persiscope. "

Memo to self: don't trust anything I read on Periscope.

:D

[cp-the-nerd]

Yeah but you know who didn't win? Adam Carolla.

[El Kabong]

Yes, quite.

So, as to those rumoured leaks that the Camaro didn't win COTY: if they are true I suspect that harsh words will be spoken behind the scenes, since MT appears to be making a bit of noise about the whole thing for its Monday reveal online.

Fun conspiracy time: is it possible that MT are trolling the trolls?

...judging by the guy losing his mind over in the WOT section right now, I'd say it's a distinct possibility

Ya, I heard Carolla was pretty terrible.

Edited November 17, 2015 by El Kabong

[cp-the-nerd]

It was like watching a car wreck, I would have thought Adam Carolla would have been a great car host, but he was nervous and sweating bullets, and his jokes were really bad.

 

Also, at one point, the new MT video host was up to present an award and he ripped on Jonny Lieberman hardcore with a pretty harsh fat joke, which he realized immediately after and muttered a quick apology.

[El Kabong]

Their forum is still down too.

[Suaviloquent]

I think the biggest thing that other automakers have to take away from GM's 2-3 years of consistently superior performance is that GM is doubling down on cost-effective technology than benefits consumers.

 

It's not even a feasibility issue. GM is doing things that other automakers should be able to do, but chose not to.

 

Modular platforms, eking out the most of available technologies, and still pursuing connectivity and tech.

 

And even if Camaro didn't win - Chevy has an almost entirely new car showroom. New for 2016 - Malibu, Camaro, Cruze, Spark, Volt. 

 

And I really like the Malibu. I finally have started to like the front, and the rest is spectacular. But at the price they're selling the Camaro, it's just no brainer.

 

Now please Chevy be fair with CAD pricing. Currency issues and all, keep the dream alive!

[El Kabong]

Trickle-down chassis tech, man. That and not abandoning V8 development.

I caught a lot of flak from many corners for being so high on this car for so long. But as soon as they announced that it was going on the Alpha platform I knew it was a done deal.

Now, I won't claim that I predicted COTY wins or anything because it's usually mass-market segments that drive the industry forward. But just reading the writeup MT provided with the win it becomes apparent that this win is far, far more than a mere comparo win.

This is a very special car.

[ocnblu]

I'm still half asleep.  Can someone please post in big capital letters who actually won COTY?  And TOTY?  Thanks.

[El Kabong]

I just would like to modify the thread title's last word to "winner."

But that's just me

[Suaviloquent]

I just would like to modify the thread title's last word to "winner."

But that's just me

 

Done, whoops, I think I just garbled it. Make sense though?

[surreal1272]

I am shocked but not by much that a pony car came away with win but the judges really could not stop saying enough good things about the Camaro. The last paragraph really summed up where this car is at.

 

"Here’s one where the new Camaro might actually transcend the criteria. Is this the best production ponycar the world has ever seen? Without hesitation, yes. What was interesting to me is that we judge types weren’t talking about the Camaro in relation to the Mustang GT that we brought along as a benchmark. We were talking about future Camaro comparison tests against BMWs, Audis, and AMGs. I’d even throw Porsche into that mix. MacKenzie sums up our feelings: “A revelation. Absolutely world-class sports car performance and dynamics from an American icon. The new Camaro is one of the finest driver’s cars in the world. And that’s before you even talk about the price.” It’s also absolutely bitchin’, and it’s the 2016 Motor Trend Car of the Year."

[ccap41]

Congrats to the COTY. It's definitely earned it. I CANNOT WAIT to finally see some of these in the flesh. It sucks, this time last year when the new Musangs came out it was cold and sucky weather too. Hopefully the day I spot one at our local Chevy dealer it will be sunny and no wind(I can deal with the cold as long as it isn' windy).

Edited November 17, 2015 by ccap41

[surreal1272]

Oh and the comments on the WOT have been hilarious!