SHELBY GT350 IS HERE: MTw

[Drew Dowdell]

Is that real engine sound, or electronically enhanced, as Ford has been wont to do in the last few years?

 

Woah there... don't get up on a high horse... everyone is going to be doing that soon. 

[ocnblu]

When I order my Bolt, I want an LS7 soundtrack.  You heard it here first, folks! 

[Suaviloquent]

The whole premise of this thread is stupid.

 

The reviewer says there is no complaints. The car delivers.

 

Yet people still find a way to complain. How about the fact that the SS is also going to crush a Z/28 at half the price? Makes anyone buying that absolutely idiotic as well. 

 

You can put your money where your mouth is El K. But you've been known to give MT's opinion credence when it is favourable. It's been favourable for GM quite a lot lately. And they've earned it. But Ford earned it here as well.

 

I'm not going to make an economic argument, because that would absolutely crush the Z/28 as well. And I will bring it in, because it absolutely follows the basis of your point.

 

This is not Ford trying to deliver an all-around sports car. This is a track focused machine. It's got all the hardware for that specific purpose. A stock Camaro SS, for all its worth, is not a track machine. 

 

Sure, we can wait for an 1LE. But don't ever say that GM fans never say "wait for X to show up"

 

I don't give a damn either way. I don't want a car that I can't see out of. So the Camaro gets canned for me. The GT 350/R, delivers consistency just like the Z/28, at better price, and at just a sweet, and potent powerplant. 

 

If some people don't still understand...

[cp-the-nerd]

The base Camaro SS is track ready. It has trans and differential coolers standard, it has brembo brakes standard, it has a limited slip differential standard. Everything it has shown in tests thus far is entirely ready for track abuse. GM fans don't have to say "wait for the 1LE" because the sub-$40k Camaro SS runs with the $50k GT350, which is WELL beyond reasonable expectation.

 

And to be clear: the GT350 is $50k, not $47k. It has a destination charge and a gas guzzler tax, so the base price is $49,995. The one tested was a $57k track pack. The base Camaro actually stickers for $37,295 w/ destination and Motor Trend's test car had dual mode exhaust for $38k.

 

I wouldn't blame someone for blowing their savings on a GT350. The Voodoo V8 is something special. VERY special. I felt the same about the LS7. If we're talking cold hard facts, GM waaayy over delivered, and Ford played it safe. I was hoping for more of a roadrunner V8 standard and careful attention to weight. Really, the Mustang only looks weak in the context of the Camaro.

[Frisky Dingo]

I don't see how the discussion in this thread is stupid at all.

 

Ford has come out with a car that is clearly above the Camaro SS in price, spec sheet, and hierarchy, yet that car so far appears to fail to outperform the SS. I can't see how anyone can say they don't see how that is a problem. I'm not going to say the GT350 is doomed, or even that it isn't worth the money, but this much is clear- it didn't deliver what a lot of people were expecting of it. Imo, the GT should have come close to the GT350's numbers, and the GT350 should be nipping the Z/28's heels. Maybe after further testing, the latter will be the case, but at this point, it doesn't seem like it.

 

That said, I can totally see how someone could justify paying extra for the Shelby. It certainly looks better, it's less common, it is more special, and it will hold it's value better. Personally, I can't help but look at it and see two things- 1)The SS is the better true Pony car, puts up virtually the same numbers, and is 10K less. and 2)The Shelby puts up similar numbers to a car very close in spirit and character, that will be as collectible in the future, and as a bonus, can be had in 4 door form- E90 M3.

 

I was initially very excited for the Shelby, and I still think it's badass. But it doesn't quite meet my expectations thus far, and I couldn't justify the higher price over the SS, especially when taking markup into consideration.

[El Kabong]

Far from stupid, the discussion in the thread is downright pertinent. The reality is that with the current products Chevy and Ford are offering in the segment there will be some "out of the box" comparisons made. In this case, the comparisons were largely made on forums and message boards.

But we are about to witness something similarly out of the box from one of the major car magazines: a head-to-head comparo between a car Ford currently sells (GT350R) and a car that Chevy no longer does (Z/28).

In my experience, good grace and humour are the better attitudes to have when faced with such odd situations.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

Anyway, GT350 is an exceptional track focused performance product and value, if you consider the $72K Z28 that GM still advertises on the Camaro page. And what time will prove is that sales do matter (as proven by yet another domination) and that people do care about much more than just an acceleration metric that is so close as to matter far more on the conditions and driver and even the accuracy of the equipment that obtained them.  Yeah, camaro brought bigger power to the table. And yeah, that is pretty easy to add  whenever they like.  And don't underestimate the RAW emotion of a screaming FP V8 engine that stirs the soul far more than a number. And then there is the looks. Sorry, GM dropped the ball on camaro.

 

This thing however, is the cats-arse.....

[surreal1272]

Only you could say that the Camaro could drop the ball. Well, given that the Camaro thus far is the performance standard bearer (and again that is what these cars should be about) and they "dropped the ball" according to you (and you alone), what does that say about the Mustang that it is beating in said performance?

Edited November 3, 2015 by surreal1272

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Only you could say that the Camaro could drop the ball. Well, given that the Camaro thus far is the performance (and again that is what these cars should be about) and if they "drop the ball", what does that say about the Mustang it is beating in said performance?

 

 

I swear I have to hire someone on my payroll to check your posts for partial truths and misquotes surreal.

 

Is that why you did not quote me?  

 

Here is my quote in it's FULL context......"And then there is the looks. Sorry, GM dropped the ball on camaro."

[ccap41]

WTF.

 

I can't get over how freakin' badass that car looks.

 

7.32.19. That puts it ahead of some pretty gnarly cars and 32nd all-time.

[surreal1272]

 

Only you could say that the Camaro could drop the ball. Well, given that the Camaro thus far is the performance (and again that is what these cars should be about) and if they "drop the ball", what does that say about the Mustang it is beating in said performance?

 

 

I swear I have to hire someone on my payroll to check your posts for partial truths and misquotes surreal.

 

Is that why you did not quote me?  

 

Here is my quote in it's FULL context......"And then there is the looks. Sorry, GM dropped the ball on camaro."

 

No. I made my statement because what you say is pure opinion and you can only bring that up because of the performance shortcomings of the Mustang. Sorry I didn't make that clear enough for you the first. I can accept that my wording was a little off but I am telling that you need to watch this tact you have been taken with me. From the "Jar Jar" remarks to the general "eff you" (your words yesterday after getting called out on the GT500 thread), you absolutely need to start treading lightly here.

 

So let me sum this up again, for you. Ford dropped the PERFORMANCE ball with this generation Mustang and there is nothing you can say about subjective little things like the looks of the Camaro, that is going to change that.

Edited November 3, 2015 by surreal1272

[FordCosworth]

The whole premise of this thread is stupid.

 

The reviewer says there is no complaints. The car delivers.

 

Yet people still find a way to complain. How about the fact that the SS is also going to crush a Z/28 at half the price? Makes anyone buying that absolutely idiotic as well. 

 

You can put your money where your mouth is El K. But you've been known to give MT's opinion credence when it is favourable. It's been favourable for GM quite a lot lately. And they've earned it. But Ford earned it here as well.

 

I'm not going to make an economic argument, because that would absolutely crush the Z/28 as well. And I will bring it in, because it absolutely follows the basis of your point.

 

This is not Ford trying to deliver an all-around sports car. This is a track focused machine. It's got all the hardware for that specific purpose. A stock Camaro SS, for all its worth, is not a track machine. 

 

Sure, we can wait for an 1LE. But don't ever say that GM fans never say "wait for X to show up"

 

I don't give a damn either way. I don't want a car that I can't see out of. So the Camaro gets canned for me. The GT 350/R, delivers consistency just like the Z/28, at better price, and at just a sweet, and potent powerplant. 

 

If some people don't still understand...

 

Best post yet.

[surreal1272]

Some here prove that, once again, that sales only matter when it suits one's agenda. Some perspective on that. 

 

Yes the Mustang is leading in sales this year. Again, that is no shock because it is a good car overall and it going against an outgoing model. The sales of outgoing the Camaro though, have been higher than the outgoing Mustang at this time last year (and the months prior. Example: 2015 Camaro sales for October 2015-5289 sold while the outgoing 2014 Mustang sold 4565 cars in October 2014. This pattern held true for the last few months prior as well (the Mustang sold just over 3158 cars in Sept. 2014 while the 2015 Camaro sold 5246 Point is that crowing about being a sales leader against an outgoing model is not telling the whole story. Comparing outgoing models is a more accurate reflection. Now when the 2016 Camaro hits full production stride, then the sales argument will really be on. As it is now, it's just silly to compare the two but some folks have to crow about something I guess. 

 
Anyway, GT350 is an exceptional track focused performance product and value, if you consider the $72K Z28 that GM still advertises on the Camaro page. And what time will prove is that sales do matter (as proven by yet another domination) and that people do care about much more than just an acceleration metric that is so close as to matter far more on the conditions and driver and even the accuracy of the equipment that obtained them.  Yeah, camaro brought bigger power to the table. And yeah, that is pretty easy to add  whenever they like.  And don't underestimate the RAW emotion of a screaming FP V8 engine that stirs the soul far more than a number. And then there is the looks. Sorry, GM dropped the ball on camaro.
 
This thing however, is the cats-arse.....

Nice edit.

Edited November 3, 2015 by surreal1272

[oldshurst442]

I dont really care how much this GT350 costs...Its quite a simple choice for me...since I dont drag race, nor autocross, its all about the look for me...

 

And the GT350 simply looks astonishing!

 

Lack of low end grunt?

I hardly think so...the thing has got enough grunt to scoot in city streets and on ramp acceleration shenanigans...

 

More than that and my license to drive would be revoked...where is the fun in that?

 

GT350 is where my hard earned cash would go!

 

(if we were ONLY talking about a Camaro SS and a Mustang.GT350, throw in the other cross town rival with the cute little kitty on the fender and its a different story)

[FordCosworth]

Mustang Sales YTD - 106,321

 

Camaro Sales YTD - 66,833

 

 

Since its rebirth, the Camaro has never hit 100k.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

Only you could say that the Camaro could drop the ball. Well, given that the Camaro thus far is the performance (and again that is what these cars should be about) and if they "drop the ball", what does that say about the Mustang it is beating in said performance?

 

 

I swear I have to hire someone on my payroll to check your posts for partial truths and misquotes surreal.

 

Is that why you did not quote me?  

 

Here is my quote in it's FULL context......"And then there is the looks. Sorry, GM dropped the ball on camaro."

 

No. I made my statement because what you say is pure opinion and you can only bring that up because of the performance shortcomings of the Mustang. Sorry I didn't make that clear enough for you the first. I can accept that my wording was a little off but I am telling that you need to watch this tact you have been taken with me. From the "Jar Jar" remarks to the general "eff you" (your words yesterday after getting called out on the GT500 thread), you absolutely need to start treading lightly here.

 

So let me sum this up again, for you. Ford dropped the PERFORMANCE ball with this generation Mustang and there is nothing you can say about subjective little things like the looks of the Camaro, that is going to change that.

 

 

 

I stated very clearly, not that you would notice as you police my every post, that the two vehicles are exceptional in performance with minimal difference between, before I expressed my opinion regarding looks, because it (camaro) looks to similar to previous gen, and I am hardly the first person to say that.

 

So you are full of nonsense, once again, by telling me I can't have an opinion on looks.

Edited November 3, 2015 by Wings4Life

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

Anyway, GT350 is an exceptional track focused performance product and value, if you consider the $72K Z28 that GM still advertises on the Camaro page. And what time will prove is that sales do matter (as proven by yet another domination) and that people do care about much more than just an acceleration metric that is so close as to matter far more on the conditions and driver and even the accuracy of the equipment that obtained them.  Yeah, camaro brought bigger power to the table. And yeah, that is pretty easy to add  whenever they like.  And don't underestimate the RAW emotion of a screaming FP V8 engine that stirs the soul far more than a number. And then there is the looks. Sorry, GM dropped the ball on camaro.

 

This thing however, is the cats-arse.....

Nice edit.

 

 

What edit are you talking about?

I clearly did not edit this post you quoted.

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

Only you could say that the Camaro could drop the ball. Well, given that the Camaro thus far is the performance (and again that is what these cars should be about) and if they "drop the ball", what does that say about the Mustang it is beating in said performance?

 

 

I swear I have to hire someone on my payroll to check your posts for partial truths and misquotes surreal.

 

Is that why you did not quote me?  

 

Here is my quote in it's FULL context......"And then there is the looks. Sorry, GM dropped the ball on camaro."

 

No. I made my statement because what you say is pure opinion and you can only bring that up because of the performance shortcomings of the Mustang. Sorry I didn't make that clear enough for you the first. I can accept that my wording was a little off but I am telling that you need to watch this tact you have been taken with me. From the "Jar Jar" remarks to the general "eff you" (your words yesterday after getting called out on the GT500 thread), you absolutely need to start treading lightly here.

 

So let me sum this up again, for you. Ford dropped the PERFORMANCE ball with this generation Mustang and there is nothing you can say about subjective little things like the looks of the Camaro, that is going to change that.

 

 

 

I stated very clearly, not that you would notice as you police my every post, that the two vehicles are exceptional in performance with minimal difference between, before I expressed my opinion regarding looks, because it (camaro) looks to similar to previous gen, and I am hardly the first person to say that.

 

So you are full of nonsense, once again, by telling me I can't have an opinion on looks.

 

And you are putting words in my mouth. I said your opinion on looks is subjective. I never said you could not have one so please get over yourself and tread lightly here. Besides, one could easily say that you are policing me since you are trying to put words in my mouth and tell me what I should post and how

 

BTW, I have a right to my opinion, just as much as you do. Difference is that I don't get all bent out of shape about a counter opinion like you clearly just did here. BTW, just because they did not do a wholesale redesign (never mind that it does not share one body panel with the previous model) does not mean that they dropped the ball. 

Mustang Sales YTD - 106,321

 

Camaro Sales YTD - 66,833

 

 

Since its rebirth, the Camaro has never hit 100k.

Understanding the context of what I said earlier, is the key to understanding. 

Edited November 3, 2015 by surreal1272

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Mustang Sales YTD - 106,321

 

Camaro Sales YTD - 66,833

 

 

Since its rebirth, the Camaro has never hit 100k.

 

 

I believe Mustang has already surpassed the sales differences between it and camaro in recent years, just this year.  And a couple more months to go.

 

Anybody got time to check.  

[Frisky Dingo]

The GT350-R does look wicked as hell.

[surreal1272]

The GT350-R does look wicked as hell.

That it does. It would be only choice if I were to go with a Mustang, all black please.

[Drew Dowdell]

Due to the speed with which some of the trolling and abuse is going on, I sometimes forget to check the "Edited By:" button when modifying some posts.   Regular users cannot edit their own post without the Edited note showing up.  If a user edits their own post, it will say so.  An Admin or Mod are the only people who can silently edit a post.

 

That said... I wish you all would just chill out. 

[surreal1272]

Due to the speed with which some of the trolling and abuse is going on, I sometimes forget to check the "Edited By:" button when modifying some posts.   Regular users cannot edit their own post without the Edited note showing up.  If a user edits their own post, it will say so.  An Admin or Mod are the only people who can silently edit a post.

 

That said... I wish you all would just chill out. 

Thank you for the clarification Drew and I apologize for getting sucked into the BS but when  one person just flat out lies about what they said, just because it is no longer there, it is baffling to the mind that the person can lie like that with a straight face.

 

Back to the topic, I would love to take the GT350R for a spin around the Ford proving grounds here. It is about twenty miles from where I live and would be a great place to toss that car around, especially this time of the year (a perfect 78 degrees right now)

[ccap41]

The GT350-R does look wicked as hell.

AB-SO-LUTELY!

 

 

As far as I know a portion of a post cannot simply just disappear without a moderator fiddling with it or the "edited by:" appearing at the bottom(look below for example ). I think the bigger issue would be one reading what one wants to read rather than possibly giving somebody the benefit of the doubt when talking about a subjective aspect of a car, looks.

Edited November 3, 2015 by ccap41

[Drew Dowdell]

Just.

Let. 

It.

Go!

[Suaviloquent]

I'm sticking to MT. They love the car, and that's fine by me. We can crunch numbers all we want.

 

The price delta argument falls on itself quite a bit. The GT350 will hold its value really well.

 

Not that the SS won't, but one is already an instant classic. One won't be. 

 

Even one with hard track miles will hold its value really well. And the intangibles of the exotic soundtrack, and specific styling changes over the regular Mustang, though not nearly worthy of $10,000 or more, sure are worth a few. Between that and the residuals, it's no wonder Ford will sell as many as they can possibly build, even with the high reported dealer markups.

 

The SS is a really great car. But still don't think it's the proper car to compare to the GT350, certainly not the GT350R. No complaints from me, no complaints from Motortrend.

 

I'm satisfied with that, as I see this thread wither and die. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Any more fighting beyond this point and I'm just going to close the thread and delete everything after this post. 

[Drew Dowdell]

And as promised, I have closed the thread due to fighting and removed all posts, including the good ones, that happened after my line in the sand.