SHELBY GT350 IS HERE: MTw

[El Kabong]

...and at last, Ford has a car that will match the Camaro SS. But according to MT's numbers, that's it-its basically a dead heat. Here's the link to the video, and a few of the pertinent stats... except for price. I'll dig for that one a but more:

0-60=4.1 seconds

Braking 60-0=102 feet

Lateral acceleration=1.00 G

MT Figure [email protected]

Curb Weight=3,781

"I know I'm a lot of feathers for that much chicken." -Kim Mitchell

Edited November 2, 2015 by El Kabong

[surreal1272]

Wait wait wait man! I need to start my popcorn!

[El Kabong]

I just caught the quarter-mile time- 12.4.

But the price. Fifty-seven thousand dollars.

What. The. EFF

[El Kabong]

Look. I get that this car has a great-sounding engine that revs to the moon.

But if I fell for the sales pitch, bought one of those things, and then found out I couldn't outrun a Camaro that cost twenty grand LESS?

Full-on meltdown. Seriously.

What is Ford thinking????

Edited November 2, 2015 by El Kabong

[El Kabong]

...and the worst part from a Ford fan's perspective is that while it does indeed match the SS performance-wise, that price single-handedly precludes it from being the segment king.

So... The Camaro SS is still the target for smaller pony cars.

Edited November 2, 2015 by El Kabong

[ccap41]

I just can't get over the sound of that car. It's like sex in my ears..but without having sex in my ears.. that'd be f'd up. So it's like sex..but a car.. so it's like a car that I like a lot.

 

What was that mph running a 12.4?

[El Kabong]

117.8. The fastest trap time for SS so far has been 116.

Like I said man: not much to pick from. And I don't care what the engine sounds like: it ain't worth 20

large all by itself.

Edited November 2, 2015 by El Kabong

[ccap41]

Soooooo.. From those numbers the random street racer who will do dangerous/stupid/(enter your own adjective here) the gt350 will out run it on a highway pull.

 

I think one of the buggest advantages the SS will have will actually be in the aftermarket though. The SS will have an endless supply of aftermarket parts like Camaros typically do(and Mustangs and Challengers) but I just have a feeling there won't be as much for a flat plane 5.2 like there will a pushrod 6.2 that is put into everything Chevy. So, while the GT350 will outrun it factory v factory there will probably be more an cheaper bolt ons to cover the power gap and there will then be plenty of SSs running around pulling on GT350s.

 

Here is the worst saying ever.. Wait till the GT500.. hahaha

[El Kabong]

The Shelby won't necessarily win in a standing start or highway pull because as the vid alluded to, the 5.2 is a peaky engine. One missed shift, one roll in a too-tall gear, or one gagged clutch drop and it's all over-the SS will walk.

If you want to go street racing, that's your problem. At legal speeds (0-60) the Camaro will consistently edge it.

This car is just another example of Ford trying to be different without being noticeably better. And at an eye-watering price premium.

The GT500? Now I KNOW you're just trying to make the trolls twitch

Edited November 2, 2015 by El Kabong

[ccap41]

Can't the same exact thing be said for any race ever though? Just because the Chevy has gobs of torque doesn't mean it could start a highway pull at 3 grand or miss a shift and win. There is only one change to win a drag race of any kind. A screw up will lead to the other car winning 99% of the time, unless the car just happens to be an absolute monster. I think the GT350 will definitely have an edge on a highway pull over a standing start though but I think that is kind of obvious with how the car was designed and it's intentions.

 

Yeah, these will be driven by idiots not just going to 60mph. I am not a street racer. Never have, hopefully never will. Gateway Motorsport park is 40 minutes from home and every Wednesday they have a "test n tune" for like 15 bucks.

 

I definitely do not see it as being different to be different. It has that peaky motor for a reason. Sometimes there is such a thing as too much torque and it is more than likely when you're exiting a corner and want to stand on the throttle at a mellow 3-4k(in the Chevy) and POW! torque everywhere. Progressive powerbands have their place and it is definitely not on a drag strip. They know this.

 

Ohhhh man!! YOU JUST WAIT!! Once the 2017 GT500 drops.. It'll just...It'll... FAST!!!!

Edited November 2, 2015 by ccap41

[FordCosworth]

The GT350/350R is one ( two? ) awesome car!

 

Love it, love it, love it!

[El Kabong]

Guys. Seriously.

If this car was called the Mustang GT and priced accordingly, it would get an unabashed thumbs-up from me. Really, it would. An 8400rpm screamer that pulls 1g for high thirties? You might even get this GM guy to sign up.

BUT...

Ccap in particular has already gone on record as saying that the current SS is too darn expensive for what you get. And now we are supposed to excuse this Shelby twenty thousand dollars because it sounds nice?

In the immortal words of Jon Pinette: I say, nay nay.

At thirty-odd grand: awesome car. Mid to high fifties? Not so much.

And to think that we're not even talking about a 1LE version of the SS!...

[ccap41]

It's not a drag car and that is all you're currently comparing it to. There aren't comparative lap times that I know of, right? Aaaaand that is what the GT350 is. It is more of a road course car than a drag strip car and all you are comparing it by is straight line numbers.  And I HATE, absolutely HATE talking about resale but there will be a much higher resale % for anything labled Shelby over "just" a Camaro(I didn't know how to word that without talking down to the Camaro but you get what I'm saying).

[El Kabong]

Once again: I have posted braking, acceleration, and lateral g numbers, including the figure eight times. NONE OF THEM are a noticeable improvement over an SS.

Resale value? No idea. It would be instructive to see how the old GT500 is holding up versus the ZL1 I suppose. But if you go down that road with your argument you run into the same wall you're trying to put up for me: this is a road racer, not a museum piece.

And even in its current form the run-of-the-mill SS is WAY too close for comfort if I'm a potential Shelby buyer.

[FordCosworth]

Guys. Seriously.

If this car was called the Mustang GT and priced accordingly, it would get an unabashed thumbs-up from me. Really, it would. An 8400rpm screamer that pulls 1g for high thirties? You might even get this GM guy to sign up.

BUT...

Ccap in particular has already gone on record as saying that the current SS is too darn expensive for what you get. And now we are supposed to excuse this Shelby twenty thousand dollars because it sounds nice?

In the immortal words of Jon Pinette: I say, nay nay.

At thirty-odd grand: awesome car. Mid to high fifties? Not so much.

And to think that we're not even talking about a 1LE version of the SS!...

 

Well there isn't a 1LE version, is there?

[El Kabong]

You're missing my point entirely.

At this juncture I'm not even sure there NEEDS to be a 1LE.

*mike drop*

Edited November 2, 2015 by El Kabong

[surreal1272]

 

Guys. Seriously.

If this car was called the Mustang GT and priced accordingly, it would get an unabashed thumbs-up from me. Really, it would. An 8400rpm screamer that pulls 1g for high thirties? You might even get this GM guy to sign up.

BUT...

Ccap in particular has already gone on record as saying that the current SS is too darn expensive for what you get. And now we are supposed to excuse this Shelby twenty thousand dollars because it sounds nice?

In the immortal words of Jon Pinette: I say, nay nay.

At thirty-odd grand: awesome car. Mid to high fifties? Not so much.

And to think that we're not even talking about a 1LE version of the SS!...

 

Well there isn't a 1LE version, is there?

 

There isn't a GT500 yet either but that didn't stop you commenting on that thread did it?

[FordCosworth]

You're missing my point entirely.

At this juncture I'm not even sure there NEEDS to be a 1LE.

*mike drop*

 

Whats a mike drop?

 

Are you meaning " mic ", as in microphone?

 

As I drop the mic...

[FordCosworth]

 

 

Guys. Seriously.

If this car was called the Mustang GT and priced accordingly, it would get an unabashed thumbs-up from me. Really, it would. An 8400rpm screamer that pulls 1g for high thirties? You might even get this GM guy to sign up.

BUT...

Ccap in particular has already gone on record as saying that the current SS is too darn expensive for what you get. And now we are supposed to excuse this Shelby twenty thousand dollars because it sounds nice?

In the immortal words of Jon Pinette: I say, nay nay.

At thirty-odd grand: awesome car. Mid to high fifties? Not so much.

And to think that we're not even talking about a 1LE version of the SS!...

 

Well there isn't a 1LE version, is there?

 

There isn't a GT500 yet either but that didn't stop you commenting on that thread did it?

 

 

Was that not a thread about a possible GT500 right? How dare one talk about a possible GT500 in a thread about a possible GT500. 

 

And this here thread is about the GT350, right? 

[El Kabong]

Really though, all this drama over all these variants of the Mustang can be traced back to two root causes:

-GM has an advanced RWD platform to utilize from Cadillac, while Ford doesn't have one from Lincoln.

-GM has invested much money and effort into mass-market V8s, while Ford has not.

It is the height of delusion for some to think that GM's massive advantages in both fields would not eventually bear fruit in a segment that values them. What I think has shocked some is just how expensive it is for a company to try to recoup those losses once they have been allowed to dissipate.

But them's the breaks. GM guys and girls have long known that this day would come. And now that it's here, it's time to raise a glass to wise investment, hard work, and reinventing the segment in GM's image.

You're missing my point entirely.

At this juncture I'm not even sure there NEEDS to be a 1LE.

*mike drop*

Whats a mike drop?

Are you meaning " mic ", as in microphone?

As I drop the mic...

I accept your surrender

Edited November 2, 2015 by El Kabong

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

Guys. Seriously.

If this car was called the Mustang GT and priced accordingly, it would get an unabashed thumbs-up from me. Really, it would. An 8400rpm screamer that pulls 1g for high thirties? You might even get this GM guy to sign up.

BUT...

Ccap in particular has already gone on record as saying that the current SS is too darn expensive for what you get. And now we are supposed to excuse this Shelby twenty thousand dollars because it sounds nice?

In the immortal words of Jon Pinette: I say, nay nay.

At thirty-odd grand: awesome car. Mid to high fifties? Not so much.

And to think that we're not even talking about a 1LE version of the SS!...

 

Well there isn't a 1LE version, is there?

 

There isn't a GT500 yet either but that didn't stop you commenting on that thread did it?

 

 

Was that not a thread about a possible GT500 right? How dare one talk about a possible GT500 in a thread about a possible GT500. 

 

And this here thread is about the GT350, right? 

 

Now pay special attention to what YOU said.

"Well there isn't a 1LE version, is there?"

 

And the I said there isn't a GT500 either.

 

Now based on that fact, why can he not bring up a car that isn't here yet when you did the exact same thing? The answer is he can. Why would even say what you said about the 1LE? The answer is because you were trolling him.

[El Kabong]

Meh. Troll handle kid is upset. Let him act out. As a Ford fan in this segment right now I can understand why he might.

Edited November 2, 2015 by El Kabong

[FordCosworth]

 

 

 

 

Guys. Seriously.

If this car was called the Mustang GT and priced accordingly, it would get an unabashed thumbs-up from me. Really, it would. An 8400rpm screamer that pulls 1g for high thirties? You might even get this GM guy to sign up.

BUT...

Ccap in particular has already gone on record as saying that the current SS is too darn expensive for what you get. And now we are supposed to excuse this Shelby twenty thousand dollars because it sounds nice?

In the immortal words of Jon Pinette: I say, nay nay.

At thirty-odd grand: awesome car. Mid to high fifties? Not so much.

And to think that we're not even talking about a 1LE version of the SS!...

 

Well there isn't a 1LE version, is there?

 

There isn't a GT500 yet either but that didn't stop you commenting on that thread did it?

 

 

Was that not a thread about a possible GT500 right? How dare one talk about a possible GT500 in a thread about a possible GT500. 

 

And this here thread is about the GT350, right? 

 

Now pay special attention to what YOU said.

"Well there isn't a 1LE version, is there?"

 

And the I said there isn't a GT500 either.

 

Now based on that fact, why can he not bring up a car that isn't here yet when you did the exact same thing? The answer is he can. Why would even say what you said about the 1LE? The answer is because you were trolling him.

 

 

I cant believe my eyes.

 

Here we have a troll complaining about me talking about a possible GT500 in a thread DEDICATED to that possible GT500.

[ccap41]

Once again: I have posted braking, acceleration, and lateral g numbers, including the figure eight times. NONE OF THEM are a noticeable improvement over an SS.

Resale value? No idea. It would be instructive to see how the old GT500 is holding up versus the ZL1 I suppose. But if you go down that road with your argument you run into the same wall you're trying to put up for me: this is a road racer, not a museum piece.

And even in its current form the run-of-the-mill SS is WAY too close for comfort if I'm a potential Shelby buyer.

And none of those are track times. That is my point. You're blowing this Camaro SS out of proportion UNTIL there is an actual comparison made available.

 

ZL1 is not an SS, which you are comparing to the Shelby. So the resale of the ZL1 is pointless in this GT350/SS comparison.

 

Based on your logic, if these numbers are "too close for comfort" why buy a Stingray? Why buy ANYTHING other than a Camaro SS because it is the best bang for your dollar? Right? That is basically what you're saying. 3.9 to 60mph is legitimately FAST. So why buy a car that can do it in 3.5? Would that not be "too close for comfort"? I mean a base Stingray runs 3.9 to 60mph, 1/4 mile in 12.2@118. Why buy it? Because it has the ability to hold 0.04g sustained? No, it has to be because of the brakes. The Vette stops ~15ft shorter than the Camaro. So, for $20,000 you car a car that has better brakes, and less interior room over the Camaro SS. Why buy it? Is it perhaps more than just the sum of those numbers that make it a great car? Absolutely. You're putting so much stock into a few numbers and riding those numbers to the grave high atop your clydesdale.

[El Kabong]

Stop being silly.

You buy a Corvette because YOU WANT A CORVETTE.

You buy a Camaro because YOU WANT A CAMARO.

It's that simple. One is built to eat Ferraris, one is built to eat M4s.

Now, the Camaro numbers vs. Mustang numbers... these are direct competitors. And yes, strictly speaking the skid pad and figure eight aren't a track.

But once again... You can see a lot just by looking. The Mustang's quarter mile is the same elapsed time with a tiny edge in speed. The figure eight is the same deal.

What this indicates to me is that the Mustang's mass and low-end torque deficit do it no favors. Also it may be hurting its transition reactions from straights to corners.

But enough with the hair splitting: the twenty grand difference should be the starting point for any conversation about these two cars' merits, not a tenth here and a fraction of a g there.

[surreal1272]

And he misses the irony in yet another statement without understanding or acknowledging the context in which the original post was said. Well, I guess when you run out of ammunition, that is the route you have to go. Strange that as a new mod, with his new mod powers, you can't see that. Not my problem though.

[FordCosworth]

And he misses the irony in yet another statement without understanding or acknowledging the context in which the original post was said. Well, I guess when you run out of ammunition, that is the route you have to go. Strange that as a new mod, with his new mod powers, you can't see that. Not my problem though.

 

 

Well if its not your problem, why poke your nose in? Why keep whining?

[El Kabong]

I don't know what else there is to say, really. The facts are what they are: it now takes a Shelby Mustang to go toe to toe with a Camaro SS. The reactions to that reality? Understandable but misguided. They should be blaming Ford for talking all kinds of crap while not actually doing anything about it.

Edited November 2, 2015 by El Kabong

[FordCosworth]

 

Once again: I have posted braking, acceleration, and lateral g numbers, including the figure eight times. NONE OF THEM are a noticeable improvement over an SS.

Resale value? No idea. It would be instructive to see how the old GT500 is holding up versus the ZL1 I suppose. But if you go down that road with your argument you run into the same wall you're trying to put up for me: this is a road racer, not a museum piece.

And even in its current form the run-of-the-mill SS is WAY too close for comfort if I'm a potential Shelby buyer.

And none of those are track times. That is my point. You're blowing this Camaro SS out of proportion UNTIL there is an actual comparison made available.

 

ZL1 is not an SS, which you are comparing to the Shelby. So the resale of the ZL1 is pointless in this GT350/SS comparison.

 

Based on your logic, if these numbers are "too close for comfort" why buy a Stingray? Why buy ANYTHING other than a Camaro SS because it is the best bang for your dollar? Right? That is basically what you're saying. 3.9 to 60mph is legitimately FAST. So why buy a car that can do it in 3.5? Would that not be "too close for comfort"? I mean a base Stingray runs 3.9 to 60mph, 1/4 mile in 12.2@118. Why buy it? Because it has the ability to hold 0.04g sustained? No, it has to be because of the brakes. The Vette stops ~15ft shorter than the Camaro. So, for $20,000 you car a car that has better brakes, and less interior room over the Camaro SS. Why buy it? Is it perhaps more than just the sum of those numbers that make it a great car? Absolutely. You're putting so much stock into a few numbers and riding those numbers to the grave high atop your clydesdale.

 

 

Your post makes to much sense.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Man I could listen to that GT350 winding out on a track all day long.  My favorite auto soundtrack used to be the chase scene from the movie Bullitt. Not any longer This thing is awesome on  a track.  

Edited November 2, 2015 by Drew Dowdell
Removed abusive language.

[ccap41]

Stop being silly.

You buy a Corvette because YOU WANT A CORVETTE.

You buy a Camaro because YOU WANT A CAMARO.

It's that simple. One is built to eat Ferraris, one is built to eat M4s.

Now, the Camaro numbers vs. Mustang numbers... these are direct competitors. And yes, strictly speaking the skid pad and figure eight aren't a track.

But once again... You can see a lot just by looking. The Mustang's quarter mile is the same elapsed time with a tiny edge in speed. The figure eight is the same deal.

What this indicates to me is that the Mustang's mass and low-end torque deficit do it no favors. Also it may be hurting its transition reactions from straights to corners.

But enough with the hair splitting: the twenty grand difference should be the starting point for any conversation about these two cars' merits, not a tenth here and a fraction of a g there.

Yeah and you won't be buying a Camaro when you want a Shelby. That was kind of my point. Just because they are putting down similar numbers doesn't mean you will cross shop them and doesn't make the Corvette any less than spectacular.

 

Personally, on cars like this I see the figure-8 a much more telling story as they are already rolling and two switchbacks that would upset an insuperior chassis.

 

Low end torque isn't used when you're getting after it. It's used in 1st gear and that's it. After that every shift is done at redline and the rpms only drop a couple grand and you never see that brute of torque below 4k. Maybe on a slow, tight corner...but it wouldn't be often that a motor like the LT1 while down on peak power would have an advantage over a peak motor on a race track, which is the only place these cars can truly be extracted anyway.

 

Where are you getting $20,000 from?

You're comaring a base SS, correct? $37,XXX

So a base GT350 is $47,XXX.

 

You cannot logically list a base price to an as tested price. 

 

Again, if you're so worried about a couple tenths and the price difference then the Stingray will never sell again. Because that starts around 55k and youre only getting marginally better performance than the 37k Camaro.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you two please stop your pissing match in yet another thread so people can actually talk about the cars?

 

Please, and thank you.

Edited November 2, 2015 by ccap41

[El Kabong]

 

Stop being silly.

You buy a Corvette because YOU WANT A CORVETTE.

You buy a Camaro because YOU WANT A CAMARO.

It's that simple. One is built to eat Ferraris, one is built to eat M4s.

Now, the Camaro numbers vs. Mustang numbers... these are direct competitors. And yes, strictly speaking the skid pad and figure eight aren't a track.

But once again... You can see a lot just by looking. The Mustang's quarter mile is the same elapsed time with a tiny edge in speed. The figure eight is the same deal.

What this indicates to me is that the Mustang's mass and low-end torque deficit do it no favors. Also it may be hurting its transition reactions from straights to corners.

But enough with the hair splitting: the twenty grand difference should be the starting point for any conversation about these two cars' merits, not a tenth here and a fraction of a g there.

Yeah and you won't be buying a Camaro when you want a Shelby. That was kind of my point. Just because they are putting down similar numbers doesn't mean you will cross shop them and doesn't make the Corvette any less than spectacular.

 

Personally, on cars like this I see the figure-8 a much more telling story as they are already rolling and two switchbacks that would upset an insuperior chassis.

 

Low end torque isn't used when you're getting after it. It's used in 1st gear and that's it. After that every shift is done at redline and the rpms only drop a couple grand and you never see that brute of torque below 4k. Maybe on a slow, tight corner...but it wouldn't be often that a motor like the LT1 while down on peak power would have an advantage over a peak motor on a race track, which is the only place these cars can truly be extracted anyway.

 

Where are you getting $20,000 from?

You're comaring a base SS, correct? $37,XXX

So a base GT350 is $47,XXX.

 

You cannot logically list a base price to an as tested price. 

 

Again, if you're so worried about a couple tenths and the price difference then the Stingray will never sell again. Because that starts around 55k and youre only getting marginally better performance than the 37k Camaro.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you two please stop your pissing match in yet another thread so people can actually talk about the cars?

 

Please, and thank you.

I highlighted the 20 grand difference because that is the price difference between the two cars. So, that means that as optioned a mid-level Shelby is life and death to beat a base SS. And since the video discusses the Shelby's Magnetic Ride I'm guessing the Track Pack is the option pack it has.

Now. Let that sink in.

You could trim the price difference down by seven grand by removing some of the Shelby's handling chops. And you could remove another two or three by giving the Camaro Magnetic Ride.

But as a Ford fan, do you really want to go down that road? It may be enough to tip the balance to the SS in most, if not all, categories.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Drew Dowdell

[FordCosworth]

I don't know what else there is to say, really. The facts are what they are: it now takes a Shelby Mustang to go toe to toe with a Camaro SS. The reactions to that reality? Understandable but misguided. They should be blaming Ford for talking all kinds of crap while not actually doing anything about it.

 

 

What type of " crap " was Ford talking? 

 

 ...it's time to hit the streets of Chuckwalla Valley Raceway before Randy Pobst does his hot lap. "I don't think anybody who buys a Shelby GT350 will be disappointed. It delivers," commented Pobst while behind the wheel. And to give the new model some perspective, Pobst also did a hot lap in a Dodge Charger Pursuit, which was just over 15 seconds slower than the new Shelby.

 

http://www.nasaaz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/track.jpg

Edited November 2, 2015 by Burnt Valve LS7

[El Kabong]

And as a guy who's owned both a Camaro and a Corvette (and is seriously thinking about getting another Camaro): believe me-they are two very different groups, with two very different sets of priorities.

If we take your argument to another level, why does BMW sell both 6-Series coupes and 6-Series Grand Coupes (which have four doors)? The answer is that people want what they want.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

I don't know what else there is to say, really. The facts are what they are: it now takes a Shelby Mustang to go toe to toe with a Camaro SS. The reactions to that reality? Understandable but misguided. They should be blaming Ford for talking all kinds of crap while not actually doing anything about it.

 

 

What type of " crap " was Ford talking? 

 

 ...it's time to hit the streets of Chuckwalla Valley Raceway before Randy Pobst does his hot lap. "I don't think anybody who buys a Shelby GT350 will be disappointed. It delivers," commented Pobst while behind the wheel. And to give the new model some perspective, Pobst also did a hot lap in a Dodge Charger Pursuit, which was just over 15 seconds slower than the new Shelby.

 

http://www.nasaaz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/track.jpg

 

 

A Charger Pursuit is just a regular Hemi model in a police uniform, I don't really get the comparison here.... Charger Pursuits aren't running Hellcat engines.

 

No one will be disappointed in a Shelby GT350, unless they realize they could get the same performance for a lot less money by wearing a bowtie.  That's the point that EK and Surreal have been trying to make. 

[cp-the-nerd]

Mustang GT350 Track Pack ($57k)

 

0-60: 4.1 sec

Lat G: 1.00g

Figure 8: 24.2 @ .82g avg

 

***

 

Camaro SS 6M ($38k as tested by MT)

 

0-60: 4.0 sec

Lat G: 1.00g

Figure 8: 24.1 @ .85g avg

 

Try and tell me these cars aren't right on top of each other performance-wise. Without the track pack (lowers price to $50k), the GT350 presumably falls behind (no magnetic ride, unique shocks, strut tower brace, or track cooling). I called it. I looked at the equipment in the press releases and I didn't see the base GT350 beating the base Camaro SS without the track pack and they're dead even WITH Ford's track pack.

[El Kabong]

 

I don't know what else there is to say, really. The facts are what they are: it now takes a Shelby Mustang to go toe to toe with a Camaro SS. The reactions to that reality? Understandable but misguided. They should be blaming Ford for talking all kinds of crap while not actually doing anything about it.

 

 

What type of " crap " was Ford talking? 

 

 "I don't think anybody who buys a Shelby GT350 will be disappointed. It delivers," commented Pobst while behind the wheel. And to give the new model some perspective, Pobst also did a hot lap in a Dodge Charger Pursuit, which was just over 15 seconds slower than the new Shelby.[/size]

Pobst was commenting on the car with nothing to compare it to. I'm sure he said similar things about the Camaro.

And Ford has a track record as of late for advancing folks with breathtaking anger management issues, as we can all read here:

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2011/07/22/ford-exec-drops-f-bomb-on-general-motors-in-upcoming-book/

And if you care to read C/D's initial report on the GT350, they said the same thing: Ford has a track record of talking smack and not being able to back it up.

It's why, while I'm disappointed by the tone of many Ford fan's posts, I'm not surprised.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Drew Dowdell
Removed trolling comments

[El Kabong]

Mustang GT350 Track Pack ($57k)

 

0-60: 4.1 sec

Lat G: 1.00g

Figure 8: 24.2 @ .82g avg

 

***

 

Camaro SS 6M ($38k as tested by MT)

 

0-60: 4.0 sec

Lat G: 1.00g

Figure 8: 24.1 @ .85g avg

 

Try and tell me these cars aren't right on top of each other performance-wise. Without the track pack (lowers price to $50k), the GT350 presumably falls behind (no magnetic ride, unique shocks, strut tower brace, or track cooling). I called it. I looked at the equipment in the press releases and I didn't see the base GT350 beating the base Camaro SS without the track pack and they're dead even WITH Ford's track pack.

It was the only logical conclusion to come to. Good on you for sticking to your guns, though

[Frisky Dingo]

So, Camaro SS performance for 5 figures more? That's not a good result, Ford. Sounds like you're just paying extra for the exotica factor. Which is fair enough, I suppose, but if this were my money on the line, Idk.

[Drew Dowdell]

So, Camaro SS performance for 5 figures more? That's not a good result, Ford. Sounds like you're just paying extra for the exotica factor. Which is fair enough, I suppose, but if this were my money on the line, Idk.

 

$10k buys a nice chunk of Lingenfelter Camaro SS upgrades 

[ccap41]

 

 

Yeah and you won't be buying a Camaro when you want a Shelby. That was kind of my point. Just because they are putting down similar numbers doesn't mean you will cross shop them and doesn't make the Corvette any less than spectacular.

 

Personally, on cars like this I see the figure-8 a much more telling story as they are already rolling and two switchbacks that would upset an insuperior chassis.

 

Low end torque isn't used when you're getting after it. It's used in 1st gear and that's it. After that every shift is done at redline and the rpms only drop a couple grand and you never see that brute of torque below 4k. Maybe on a slow, tight corner...but it wouldn't be often that a motor like the LT1 while down on peak power would have an advantage over a peak motor on a race track, which is the only place these cars can truly be extracted anyway.

 

Where are you getting $20,000 from?

You're comaring a base SS, correct? $37,XXX

So a base GT350 is $47,XXX.

 

You cannot logically list a base price to an as tested price. 

 

Again, if you're so worried about a couple tenths and the price difference then the Stingray will never sell again. Because that starts around 55k and youre only getting marginally better performance than the 37k Camaro.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you two please stop your pissing match in yet another thread so people can actually talk about the cars?

 

Please, and thank you.

I highlighted the 20 grand difference because that is the price difference between the two cars. So, that means that as optioned a mid-level Shelby is life and death to beat a base SS. And since the video discusses the Shelby's Magnetic Ride I'm guessing the Track Pack is the option pack it has.

Now. Let that sink in.

You could trim the price difference down by seven grand by removing some of the Shelby's handling chops. And you could remove another two or three by giving the Camaro Magnetic Ride.

But as a Ford fan, do you really want to go down that road? It may be enough to tip the balance to the SS in most, if not all, categories.

 

Alright, but the two numbers you keep clinging to will be the same with or without the Track Pack.

 

I don't know how many times I've said it but you continue to compare these straight line numbers saying they are similar yet there is still no track test of the two of them. WE DONT KNOW. It is not "life or death" for the Shelby.

 

I guess I just don't understand why you talk sooooooooooo much $h! against the Mustang when it isn't near as bad as you make it out to be. The GT350 is designed for something that the GT isn't and the SS is more like it.

 

Do you know factually how much better the magnetic ride for both cars is? For all we know it's good for 0.1 in the figure eight. So for all we know they are, like I suggested, only 10k apart. And you get one of the best sounding motors ever created(opinion, but I haven't heard anybody dislike it yet) matched with the Shelby nameplate.

[ccap41]

 

So, Camaro SS performance for 5 figures more? That's not a good result, Ford. Sounds like you're just paying extra for the exotica factor. Which is fair enough, I suppose, but if this were my money on the line, Idk.

 

$10k buys a nice chunk of Lingenfelter Camaro SS upgrades 

 

the downside to that is the devaluing of one vehicle.. Everybody knows the Shelby name will help hold it's value.

 

If we're talking straight performance. Absolutely take a base GT or SS and stick the 10-15k in and you'll smoke some pretty exotic cars..but once we're talking aftermarket it is a whole different game.

[El Kabong]

CP and Frisky have dropped in to share their two cent's worth. They are of a similar mindset.

Ccap, my man... Ford just got checkmated in the segment. There's no ill-will in that statement. They just... did.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

 

Yeah and you won't be buying a Camaro when you want a Shelby. That was kind of my point. Just because they are putting down similar numbers doesn't mean you will cross shop them and doesn't make the Corvette any less than spectacular.

 

Personally, on cars like this I see the figure-8 a much more telling story as they are already rolling and two switchbacks that would upset an insuperior chassis.

 

Low end torque isn't used when you're getting after it. It's used in 1st gear and that's it. After that every shift is done at redline and the rpms only drop a couple grand and you never see that brute of torque below 4k. Maybe on a slow, tight corner...but it wouldn't be often that a motor like the LT1 while down on peak power would have an advantage over a peak motor on a race track, which is the only place these cars can truly be extracted anyway.

 

Where are you getting $20,000 from?

You're comaring a base SS, correct? $37,XXX

So a base GT350 is $47,XXX.

 

You cannot logically list a base price to an as tested price. 

 

Again, if you're so worried about a couple tenths and the price difference then the Stingray will never sell again. Because that starts around 55k and youre only getting marginally better performance than the 37k Camaro.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you two please stop your pissing match in yet another thread so people can actually talk about the cars?

 

Please, and thank you.

I highlighted the 20 grand difference because that is the price difference between the two cars. So, that means that as optioned a mid-level Shelby is life and death to beat a base SS. And since the video discusses the Shelby's Magnetic Ride I'm guessing the Track Pack is the option pack it has.

Now. Let that sink in.

You could trim the price difference down by seven grand by removing some of the Shelby's handling chops. And you could remove another two or three by giving the Camaro Magnetic Ride.

But as a Ford fan, do you really want to go down that road? It may be enough to tip the balance to the SS in most, if not all, categories.

 

Alright, but the two numbers you keep clinging to will be the same with or without the Track Pack.

 

I don't know how many times I've said it but you continue to compare these straight line numbers saying they are similar yet there is still no track test of the two of them. WE DONT KNOW. It is not "life or death" for the Shelby.

 

I guess I just don't understand why you talk sooooooooooo much $h! against the Mustang when it isn't near as bad as you make it out to be. The GT350 is designed for something that the GT isn't and the SS is more like it.

 

Do you know factually how much better the magnetic ride for both cars is? For all we know it's good for 0.1 in the figure eight. So for all we know they are, like I suggested, only 10k apart. And you get one of the best sounding motors ever created(opinion, but I haven't heard anybody dislike it yet) matched with the Shelby nameplate.

 

 

The zero-60 won't change, but the handling aspects will.  Magnetic ride control makes a big difference in handling.  Even if the GT350 is set up with the best handling traditional suspension out there, it will beat you up when out on normal roads.  With magnetic ride control, it can do both track days and country cruising.

 

However, given how quickly MRC can change and adapt to various conditions, I think that even on the track, no non-dynamically adjustable suspension can match it. 

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

So, Camaro SS performance for 5 figures more? That's not a good result, Ford. Sounds like you're just paying extra for the exotica factor. Which is fair enough, I suppose, but if this were my money on the line, Idk.

 

$10k buys a nice chunk of Lingenfelter Camaro SS upgrades 

 

the downside to that is the devaluing of one vehicle.. Everybody knows the Shelby name will help hold it's value.

 

If we're talking straight performance. Absolutely take a base GT or SS and stick the 10-15k in and you'll smoke some pretty exotic cars..but once we're talking aftermarket it is a whole different game.

 

 

Are we buying museum pieces or race cars here?  Every lap around a track will devalue the car.   If you're worried about the long term value, buy a trailer and turn the car into a trailer queen that never adds any miles except driving on and off the trailer.   

 

Honestly, a Shelby that costs $10k - $20k more than a base Camaro SS with the same performance already has already devalued in my eyes..... but I'm the practical type and careful with money. 

[El Kabong]

Here's food for thought: did Ford possibly just slap on the Shelby badges instead of SVT ones to try and grab a few grand more per car?

Maybe the Mustang "SVT" is a low-mid 40 grand car?...

Edited November 2, 2015 by El Kabong

[ccap41]

 

 

 

So, Camaro SS performance for 5 figures more? That's not a good result, Ford. Sounds like you're just paying extra for the exotica factor. Which is fair enough, I suppose, but if this were my money on the line, Idk.

 

$10k buys a nice chunk of Lingenfelter Camaro SS upgrades 

 

the downside to that is the devaluing of one vehicle.. Everybody knows the Shelby name will help hold it's value.

 

If we're talking straight performance. Absolutely take a base GT or SS and stick the 10-15k in and you'll smoke some pretty exotic cars..but once we're talking aftermarket it is a whole different game.

 

 

Are we buying museum pieces or race cars here?  Every lap around a track will devalue the car.   If you're worried about the long term value, buy a trailer and turn the car into a trailer queen that never adds any miles except driving on and off the trailer.   

 

Honestly, a Shelby that costs $10k - $20k more than a base Camaro SS with the same performance already has already devalued in my eyes..... but I'm the practical type and careful with money. 

 

Yeah and at the end of the day the name Shelby is more valuable than a highly modified Camaro/Mustang/Challenger that had the same dollar amount put into it.

 

I agree that long term value is a silly thing to argue but then again we argue about a tenth here or there and refer to it as a slaughtering.

 

Honestly, that engine alone is worth the 10k price jump. It's so glorious with all its noises.

Edited November 2, 2015 by ccap41

[ccap41]

Here's food for thought: did Ford possibly just slap on the Shelby badges instead of SVT ones to try and grab a few grand more per car?

Maybe the Mustang "SVT" is a low-mid 40 grand car?...

Alright Alright Alright.. I still think 47k isn't as bad as you're saying it is because I still think it is special.. however.. When it comes to the mechanicals I do think the only difference in a base GT350 and a GT is the engine, trans, and seats. I mean the front end on the exterior is different, completely different front facia and hood, I believe.

 

I'd actually really like to know what suspension pieces are different from a GT PP.

[ccap41]

I FINALLY got to watch the video!

Balls, I just can't get over the sound.

I'm not sure if it was Ford or MT but it sucks they couldn't take it to Willow like everything else.

[ocnblu]

Is that real engine sound, or electronically enhanced, as Ford has been wont to do in the last few years?