My 10 Minutes with a CT6

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

So my nephew is a test drive consultant who racks many miles on new test vehicles that are at or near production build levels.  He drives everything, currently mostly from Dodge/Chrysler and Cadillac, although he showed me several top drawer vettes as well.  He is on prescribed routes and when near me, we meet up for dinner or lunch.  Last Saturday he pulled up in a black CT6.  

 

Cadillac really has done a great job on this car. He took me for a short ride (against the rules, but I demanded it), and I got to dash fondle and take in all the details and surfaces and textures and materials.  It is far better than CTS in every way, which makes me wonder how they will sell the S alongside the 6, unless the 6 price is at a price point far higher.  And CT6 is not exactly bargain priced either.  

 

The proportions looked great, with a seriously long hood up front. Every panel I tapped, I felt aluminum.  Of course, the honeycomb dia cast structures replace a lot steel as well.  The look is improved over the S.  The interior was well layed out,albeit a bit minimalist.  Seats felt good, as they should. Did not sit in rear, although it looked bigger than S.  My nephew did not know much about the engine, but I filled him on it. All 400 turbo charged horses of it.  He mentioned a strange shift feel, although it is early production.  Power to the road was 'good' he claimed.  He did not seem to enamored with it, but considering he drives an Scat Cat as his own vehicle, and dam near everything else for test, he can afford to be a bit picky.  

 

So GM appears to be delivering an excellent luxury sedan.  Hopefully they don't pull an ELR and price it incorrectly, as their other sedans seem to be struggling a bit, and priced much different.

 

Good luck GM.

[cp-the-nerd]

"It is far better than CTS in every way, which makes me wonder how they will sell the S alongside the 6, unless the 6 price is at a price point far higher."

 

The CTS is a midsize car, the CT6 is a fullsize. It's basically taking over for the XTS, which was a stop gap fullsize and will be phased out or relegated to fleet.

 

Write up is appreciated. I'm personally not sold on the CT6 exterior design--it seems too safe compared to such gorgeous show cars like the El Miraj--but I quite like the interior, and I look forward to the new CUE layout finding its way into the refreshed ATS and CTS (or whatever their new CT_ names will be). The pricing will not be like the ELR, which is in a whole different segment, audience, and target volume. The CT6 will start in the $50-55k range.

[Drew Dowdell]

I the CT6 will start higher than that, probably $60k at least.

[G. David Felt]

Very cool to hear about your initial impressions of the CT6, I like many have high hopes for the car. Very Cool Indeed.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

It really is good looking in person. Better than the pics I saw.  Great presence, and that loooong hood really gets your attention. 

And I can't help but think of how the Conti will be perceived.  I have now seen both cars in person, although Conti was just the concept.  So it comes down to execution.  And yes, although they have radically different approaches to the large luxury segment, they will absolutely be compared, even though some will claim they should not be.  And I am geeked about the idea of seeing these two wonderful American sedans on the road in the near future.

[El Kabong]

If it has the looks in the real world, it will seal enough deals to establish a beachhead in the marketplace.

The Continental's success will largely be dependant on how much of the concept makes it to the dealer lot. If it keeps most of that then it may do well. But as I said when both cars bowed in New York: what you see with the Caddy is what you're gonna get. Concept cars are as predictable as Forrest Gump's chocolates.

[hyperv6]

The CT6 will be more expensive than the CTS that is a given.

As for how will they sell them both. Keep in mind the CTS will transform in the near future to a CT5. This will be a much different car than what we have today in the details. I expect weight loss and interiors on the level of the CT6.

 

The one major difference is the Cadillac will be on an Omega RWD AWDS platform and the Conti will be on a FWD AWD platform. I know Ford will do a good job hiding it but under the skin Is a Taurus. That may not sit with the folks who pay attention in this price segment. It will not kill the car but it could hurt it vs. the Cadillac.

 

Thanks for the unbiased peak here I appreciate it.

 

Keep in mind this was Mark Ruess's car not Johann's I expect the CT8 to take it up several notches with the less interference of GM and the better funding. I really think many have really underestimated where this is all going.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

The CT6 will be more expensive than the CTS that is a given.

As for how will they sell them both. Keep in mind the CTS will transform in the near future to a CT5. This will be a much different car than what we have today in the details. I expect weight loss and interiors on the level of the CT6.

 

The one major difference is the Cadillac will be on an Omega RWD AWDS platform and the Conti will be on a FWD AWD platform. I know Ford will do a good job hiding it but under the skin Is a Taurus. That may not sit with the folks who pay attention in this price segment. It will not kill the car but it could hurt it vs. the Cadillac.

 

Thanks for the unbiased peak here I appreciate it.

 

Keep in mind this was Mark Ruess's car not Johann's I expect the CT8 to take it up several notches with the less interference of GM and the better funding. I really think many have really underestimated where this is all going.

 

 

More expensive is an understatement.  A CTS V-sport is probably a good starting point with similar power (over 400hp) and starts at $60K.  I expect the 6 to start around $65K on up to $80K.  Very rich pricing.  I expect sales to be a fraction of what the XTS is, less than half IMO, and thus not a big volume player.

[smk4565]

I am curious how the CT6 will be priced and wondering when more info on pricing and specs will be available.  It is almost November, other 2016 models are on sale already, the 2016 CT6 is sort of a mystery still as far as pricing and on sale dates.

[Drew Dowdell]

December on sale date apparently. 

[smk4565]

So it is on sale in 4-6 weeks and isn't priced yet?  They are really waiting till the last minute.

 

$55k seems low to me, that is like a base E-class.  This is a big car, $55k makes it like below the Hyundai Equus, that has a base price of $61k.  I think it will start over $60k and run into the $80s, and I think that is a lot of money for the engines they have in this car.   Although maybe they should price it against the E-class, it might give it a shot at some sales.

[El Kabong]

I foresee it starting out just below 60 and topping out just below 100. Any V versions would obviously break six figures. But I don't foresee that for a few years.

I also recall saying elsewhere that it would sell in the high four-low five figures per year. If Omega is an evolution of Alpha then it ought to be fine at those numbers.

[regfootball]

I'll be interested to see what the 2.0t rwd is priced at and how much more the other trims are

[hyperv6]

The CT6 will be more expensive than the CTS that is a given.

As for how will they sell them both. Keep in mind the CTS will transform in the near future to a CT5. This will be a much different car than what we have today in the details. I expect weight loss and interiors on the level of the CT6.

 

The one major difference is the Cadillac will be on an Omega RWD AWDS platform and the Conti will be on a FWD AWD platform. I know Ford will do a good job hiding it but under the skin Is a Taurus. That may not sit with the folks who pay attention in this price segment. It will not kill the car but it could hurt it vs. the Cadillac.

 

Thanks for the unbiased peak here I appreciate it.

 

Keep in mind this was Mark Ruess's car not Johann's I expect the CT8 to take it up several notches with the less interference of GM and the better funding. I really think many have really underestimated where this is all going.

 

 

More expensive is an understatement.  A CTS V-sport is probably a good starting point with similar power (over 400hp) and starts at $60K.  I expect the 6 to start around $65K on up to $80K.  Very rich pricing.  I expect sales to be a fraction of what the XTS is, less than half IMO, and thus not a big volume player.

This is the deal though. While volume may lower how much more profit will be returned? I expect this car will sell in moderate volume but be much more profitable than the XTS. This has been part of the stated plan for Cadillac as not being a volume player.

Bentley could sell their GT coupe for less and sell more cars but how much profit would there be and how exclusive would it be to see them in every Walmart Parking lot. The Volume is left to Buick from here on out.

Those not happy with Cadillac pricing are not happy because it was a car they could afford and can no longer afford. Sad but the fact is they are not of an income level Cadillac wants to represent any longer. Yes snobby but that is what builds image. I would love a Ferrari but I can not afford it. But on the other hand if I could would anyone really want a Ferrari that bad in that price segment at that content level?

Imager cars play on the edge of unobtainable. Having something not just anyone can have drives this segment. Some cheat it like Porsche did with the 944 and paid the price. If you owned a 944 it screamed I can't afford a 911. Not good for the image.

FYI this was not an argument directed at you just big picture watching.

Edited October 31, 2015 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

The CT6 is going to have an interesting range of engines.  Over the course of it's life, it will have 4-cylinder Turbo, 4-cylinder Plug-In Hybrid, Standard V6, Turbo V6 (more than one?), Turbo V8, and a diesel of some sort. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

The CT6 will be more expensive than the CTS that is a given.

As for how will they sell them both. Keep in mind the CTS will transform in the near future to a CT5. This will be a much different car than what we have today in the details. I expect weight loss and interiors on the level of the CT6.

 

The one major difference is the Cadillac will be on an Omega RWD AWDS platform and the Conti will be on a FWD AWD platform. I know Ford will do a good job hiding it but under the skin Is a Taurus. That may not sit with the folks who pay attention in this price segment. It will not kill the car but it could hurt it vs. the Cadillac.

 

Thanks for the unbiased peak here I appreciate it.

 

Keep in mind this was Mark Ruess's car not Johann's I expect the CT8 to take it up several notches with the less interference of GM and the better funding. I really think many have really underestimated where this is all going.

 

 

More expensive is an understatement.  A CTS V-sport is probably a good starting point with similar power (over 400hp) and starts at $60K.  I expect the 6 to start around $65K on up to $80K.  Very rich pricing.  I expect sales to be a fraction of what the XTS is, less than half IMO, and thus not a big volume player.

 

This is the deal though. While volume may lower how much more profit will be returned? I expect this car will sell in moderate volume but be much more profitable than the XTS. This has been part of the stated plan for Cadillac as not being a volume player.

Bentley could sell their GT coupe for less and sell more cars but how much profit would there be and how exclusive would it be to see them in every Walmart Parking lot. The Volume is left to Buick from here on out.

Those not happy with Cadillac pricing are not happy because it was a car they could afford and can no longer afford. Sad but the fact is they are not of an income level Cadillac wants to represent any longer. Yes snobby but that is what builds image. I would love a Ferrari but I can not afford it. But on the other hand if I could would anyone really want a Ferrari that bad in that price segment at that content level?

Imager cars play on the edge of unobtainable. Having something not just anyone can have drives this segment. Some cheat it like Porsche did with the 944 and paid the price. If you owned a 944 it screamed I can't afford a 911. Not good for the image.

FYI this was not an argument directed at you just big picture watching.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that.

And no worries, I never perceive automotive disagreements as arguments, but rather topical debate.  As long as the topic is product, pricing, placement, metrics, etc.  And I love a good debate.  Typical of engineers, I am told, lol

Edited October 31, 2015 by Wings4Life

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

The CT6 is going to have an interesting range of engines.  Over the course of it's life, it will have 4-cylinder Turbo, 4-cylinder Plug-In Hybrid, Standard V6, Turbo V6 (more than one?), Turbo V8, and a diesel of some sort. 

 

 

I forgot they were packaging an I4 with it.  In that case, they clearly want to come in with a low MSRP, probably around $55K.

I think that is a mistake, because it steps right on the toes of the CTS.  And that will probably be a large seller as well, and simply not enough engine for that large car.  Bad move cadillac.  

[Drew Dowdell]

 

The CT6 is going to have an interesting range of engines.  Over the course of it's life, it will have 4-cylinder Turbo, 4-cylinder Plug-In Hybrid, Standard V6, Turbo V6 (more than one?), Turbo V8, and a diesel of some sort. 

 

 

I forgot they were packaging an I4 with it.  In that case, they clearly want to come in with a low MSRP, probably around $55K.

I think that is a mistake, because it steps right on the toes of the CTS.  And that will probably be a large seller as well, and simply not enough engine for that large car.  Bad move cadillac.  

 

 

Remember, the CT6 is a featherweight in its class.  It weighs less than lower powered cars one to two size classes below it.   The 2.0T in base form weighs 3647lbs and is motivated by 265hp and likely near 295 lb-ft of torque at 2500 - 5300 rpm (Buick Regal GS tune).   For some perspective, the Regal GS with that same engine weighs in at 4022lbs. 

 

BMW 528i RWD with 240 hp and 260 lb-ft @ 1250 rpm is 3814 lbs

BMW 535i AWD with 300 hp and 300 lb-ft @ 1300 rpm is 4233 lbs

Mercedes E250 RWD with 195hp and 369 lb-ft @ 1600 rpm is 4167 lbs. (yes, I know it's a diesel, but for comparison purposes, it also has a 7.9 second 0-60)

Mercedes E350 RWD with 302hp and 273 lb-ft @ 3500 rpm is 4001 lbs. 

Audi A6 2.0 with 252 hp and 273 lbs-ft of torque @ 1600 rpm is 3803 lbs in FWD form and 3957 lbs. in the more common Quattro form. 

 

So the base CT6 2.0T should feel faster than those other base cars by having up to a 350 lbs. weight advantage on top of the horsepower and torque advantage.

 

Cmicasa got us the Cadillac CT6 weight a few months ago, and you can see for yourself, even when you start checking the boxes for V6s, Turbo V6es and AWD.... the CT6 will maintain its weight advantage over similarly equipped Germans a whole size class below.  It's no small feat that the 400hp AWD CT6 weighs the less than the smaller E250 RWD or even the 535i xDrive... and it will matter when it comes time to test performance and handling.

 

2.0T Base RWD: 3,647 lbs.

2.0T Level 1 RWD: 3,683 lbs.

3.6L Level 1 AWD: 3,925 lbs.

3.6L Level 2 AWD: 3,961 lbs.

3.6L Level 3 AWD: 4,040 lbs.

3.0TT Level 2 AWD: 4,085 lbs.

3.0TT Level 3 AWD: 4,165 lbs.

3.6L Platinum AWD: 4,261 lbs.

3.0TT Platinum AWD: 4,385 lbs.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Hmmm, interesting information drew (and casa).  Perhaps Cadillac will surprise and delight, even with an I4.  I guess that is the norm going forward, but having seen and sat in the car (not sure what engine, he would not pop the hood), I can't help but be a bit shocked.  It is not a small car, and although power to weight might be adequate, I wonder about perception, including sound of an I4.  Actually, I4 turbo engines are very smooth and quiet these days.  

 

Yeah, my perception is skewed immensely, lol. I will await reviews and test drives.  I look forward to driving one myself.

[smk4565]

The CT6 is going to have an interesting range of engines.  Over the course of it's life, it will have 4-cylinder Turbo, 4-cylinder Plug-In Hybrid, Standard V6, Turbo V6 (more than one?), Turbo V8, and a diesel of some sort. 

5 engines for 500 sales a month.  This is not the path to high profit margins.  Although they are off the shelf engines for the most part, so perhaps it does not matter.  I think that 4 cylinder model has to be cheap, full size luxury sedan buyers don't want a 4-cylinder engine any more than full size pick up truck buyers would.

[Drew Dowdell]

I think it was designed for China, but they're also selling here and maybe get a few sales from it.   It's already certified, so why not?  Even if it is just being sold to livery companies that no longer want to pay the maintenance costs on their S-Classes.

[smk4565]

The E250 gets 42 mpg, so you trade performance for that.  The 2.0T engine doesn't really yield any great fuel economy improvement over the 3.6 V6, especially if you have cylinder deactivation or start/stop on the V6.  That is why I wouldn't even use the 2.0T in the CT6.

 

Also to note the new E-class goes on sale in 2016 which is dropping 200-300 lbs from the current car, and new inline six engines.  Bye bye Mercedes 3.5 V6.

[El Kabong]

At 3700 pounds a turbo 4 will do a perfectly good job moving this car around. For reference, GM claims 0-60 in 5.5 for a 3400-pound Camaro with the current version of the 2.0T. They may have to do a bit of extra NVH trickery but I'm sure that's also quite doable.

[smk4565]

Diesel or plug-in hybrid would make more sense for livery or high mileage use than a 2.0T.  If it was being used in NYC as a chauffeur car, the plug-in hybrid would be the way to go.  If the 2.0T was a 40 mpg car I would see the point, since it will get like 30 mpg highway I don't see the need for it.

[Drew Dowdell]

Diesel or plug-in hybrid would make more sense for livery or high mileage use than a 2.0T.  If it was being used in NYC as a chauffeur car, the plug-in hybrid would be the way to go.  If the 2.0T was a 40 mpg car I would see the point, since it will get like 30 mpg highway I don't see the need for it.

 

Back in reality, low entry cost is what is important for Black Car service in NYC (or any city).   The Plug-In hybrid model is doing to be pricey.   The S and E classes I see being used a luxury taxies are all pretty base as base gets.   Note: I'm not talking about privately owned vehicles with a chauffeur, I'm talking all of the S-Classes I see with T&LC plates.

[El Kabong]

If cost were no object I'd say that a 2.0 Voltec would be the perfect solution for inner-city livery work. The commutes are relatively short, there's a lot of stop and go, and congested airspace. I read somewhere that typical Volt 2.0 owners will only need to use the engine once per half-dozen trips or so, so you keep tailpipe emissions low that way-a critical thing for Chinese cities in particular.

Edited October 31, 2015 by El Kabong

[Drew Dowdell]

At 3700 pounds a turbo 4 will do a perfectly good job moving this car around. For reference, GM claims 0-60 in 5.5 for a 3400-pound Camaro with the current version of the 2.0T. They may have to do a bit of extra NVH trickery but I'm sure that's also quite doable.

 

A Buick Regal GS AWD gets to 60 in 6.2 seconds with only a 6-speed transmission... so split the difference in favor of the Camaro and 5.6 - 5.7 seconds for the base CT6 sounds like a reasonable estimate. 

[El Kabong]

Crazy Taxi, fer shore

[oldshurst442]

However....does it not seem contradictory to want Cadillac to become less obtainable and let Buick offer the volume while having a 4 cylinder CT6?

And...especially using the CT6 as a livery service of ANY kind? NYC, Los Angeles, Montreal, Moscow, Beijing, or anywhere?

 

I get that  countries, save for the US and Canada, have limits on displacement and penalize owners heavily when they buy them big cubed engines so a 4 cylinder is needed, but in America...that is not the case.

I wouldnt offer the CT6 with the 4 cylinder in the US and Canada just because of what was said....Cadillac should NOT be in the driveways of Tom, Dick and Harry. Only the rich and sexy people...

 

And I especially dont want Cadillac cars be in livery services....not yet at least.

 

Let Mercedes prostitute themselves with Las Vegas Casino shuttle services...its fitting for the them and the city...

There is the Escalade that could fill those shoes...and Classic Caddys...but definitely NOT the CT6 or a future CT8...

 

 

 

As far as Park Avenue in NYC is concerned...maybe  when Cadillac builds their image up again when people actually lust after their products could Cadillac enter this prestige area of chauffeuring people to and fro from airports to Waldorf Astoria hotels...maybe they should forget about Las Vegas and Mercredes Benz  and focus more on  Rolls Royce and the Burj Al Arab...

 

[El Kabong]

Normally, I would say "yes" to that.

However, the Omega platform is probably the most advanced unibody on the planet-hence the 3700-pound weight for a 7-series sized car.

Therefore, why NOT use it for limo duty with a small (and presumably well-muffled) four? Besides, I don't think that anybody is expecting livery work to account for the bulk of sales.

[cp-the-nerd]

I see a lot of weird math trying to figure out the CT6 2.0T performance. Well why do math when Car & Driver already tested a 2016 CTS 2.0T/8A AWD and ran a 5.8 sec 0-60 with a 14.5 1/4 mile. Weighed 3900 lbs.

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-cadillac-cts-test-review

[El Kabong]

Because we're lazy. That's why.

[Drew Dowdell]

I see a lot of weird math trying to figure out the CT6 2.0T performance. Well why do math when Car & Driver already tested a 2016 CTS 2.0T/8A AWD and ran a 5.8 sec 0-60 with a 14.5 1/4 mile. Weighed 3900 lbs.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-cadillac-cts-test-review

The CT6 is as much as 250lbs lighter and with doesn't come with AWD on the 4 cylinder... So we'll still have to do the maths, and again, 5.6 to 5.7 seems reasonable with those changes in variables.

[Drew Dowdell]

However....does it not seem contradictory to want Cadillac to become less obtainable and let Buick offer the volume while having a 4 cylinder CT6?

And...especially using the CT6 as a livery service of ANY kind? NYC, Los Angeles, Montreal, Moscow, Beijing, or anywhere?

I get that countries, save for the US and Canada, have limits on displacement and penalize owners heavily when they buy them big cubed engines so a 4 cylinder is needed, but in America...that is not the case.

I wouldnt offer the CT6 with the 4 cylinder in the US and Canada just because of what was said....Cadillac should NOT be in the driveways of Tom, Dick and Harry. Only the rich and sexy people...

And I especially dont want Cadillac cars be in livery services....not yet at least.

Let Mercedes prostitute themselves with Las Vegas Casino shuttle services...its fitting for the them and the city...

There is the Escalade that could fill those shoes...and Classic Caddys...but definitely NOT the CT6 or a future CT8...

As far as Park Avenue in NYC is concerned...maybe when Cadillac builds their image up again when people actually lust after their products could Cadillac enter this prestige area of chauffeuring people to and fro from airports to Waldorf Astoria hotels...maybe they should forget about Las Vegas and Mercredes Benz and focus more on Rolls Royce and the Burj Al Arab...

In China there are lots of chauffeured private cars. I still think under 5.8 seconds or better is fine for the base model used for that purpose. Luxury car buyers picking one of these up for themselves will head to the V6es anyway.

[smk4565]

 

Diesel or plug-in hybrid would make more sense for livery or high mileage use than a 2.0T.  If it was being used in NYC as a chauffeur car, the plug-in hybrid would be the way to go.  If the 2.0T was a 40 mpg car I would see the point, since it will get like 30 mpg highway I don't see the need for it.

 

Back in reality, low entry cost is what is important for Black Car service in NYC (or any city).   The Plug-In hybrid model is doing to be pricey.   The S and E classes I see being used a luxury taxies are all pretty base as base gets.   Note: I'm not talking about privately owned vehicles with a chauffeur, I'm talking all of the S-Classes I see with T&LC plates.

 

The S550 plug in gets 58 MPGe and 26 mpg combined city/highway when on gas only.  Pretty good for a large luxury car, that could cut down on fuel cost.

 

The 2016 CTS 3.6 is 22 mpg combined, the 2.0T is 24 mpg combined.   The 2.0T is only 1 mpg better on the highway and 2 in the city than the V6.  That isn't really drastically lower operating cost.  And as far as base price, a turbo 4 and a V6 probably cost about the same for GM to make, we can't be talking about more than a few hundred dollars on the price of the car.  I just don't see the point of the 2.0T engine in the CT6, it makes it feel bargain basement from the start.  Plug-in hybrid 4-cylinder I am all for, you can sell it to the green crowd.

[smk4565]

Maybe they should put a 2.0T in the Corvette, it weighs even less than a CT6!

[El Kabong]

Probably give certain Benz roadsters some grief

[Drew Dowdell]

The 7-series and S-class will have Turbo-4s in short order (if they can ever shed the pounds) and I'm sure you'll rush to defend them SMK.

5.7 seconds to 60 is acceptable for a base model in this class.

[Robert Hall]

 

 

As far as Park Avenue in NYC is concerned...maybe  when Cadillac builds their image up again when people actually lust after their products could Cadillac enter this prestige area of chauffeuring people to and fro from airports to Waldorf Astoria hotels...maybe they should forget about Las Vegas and Mercredes Benz  and focus more on  Rolls Royce and the Burj Al Arab...

 

 

One of the Vegas hotels a few years ago had Maybachs for their shuttles...Luxor, I believe...I remember walking past a row of 4-5 of them.

[regfootball]

i wish it were a super refined 2.3 lire to compete with the ford 2.3

[balthazar]

Considering the base MB S350 did 0-60 in 7.0 secs in 2014, I would agree that; yes- a upper 5 sec range for the base CT6 is a huge step up from that.

[oldshurst442]

 

 

 

As far as Park Avenue in NYC is concerned...maybe  when Cadillac builds their image up again when people actually lust after their products could Cadillac enter this prestige area of chauffeuring people to and fro from airports to Waldorf Astoria hotels...maybe they should forget about Las Vegas and Mercredes Benz  and focus more on  Rolls Royce and the Burj Al Arab...

 

 

One of the Vegas hotels a few years ago had Maybachs for their shuttles...Luxor, I believe...I remember walking past a row of 4-5 of them.

 

My choice of words might have been too harsh for M-B, Ill admit to that.

However, Cadillac is not viewed as top tier 1 luxury for it to have shuttle services for the uber rich to cater to. So in that regard, the uber rich will just laugh at Cadillac and the hotel...

 

The comped special guests will adore the fact they are getting a ride in a Cadillac...but that is the thing, these people will get a kick riding in anything...

Cadillac needs to distance themselves from that...Cadillac needs to focus on the Burj Al Arab folk....many moons will pass before they get there...but they need to forget about livery service I say and just focus on making the best they can. In due time, those Phantoms will be replaced by El Mirajs and Ciels...

[smk4565]

Base S-class in the USA is 0-60 in 4.8 seconds.  S-class also offers a V12, game over to all the non-V12 cars.  Without a V12, you are in the 2nd tier. 

[El Kabong]

Yes, no doubt the Maserati Quattroporte and Porsche Panamera are a Hertz sticker away from fleet-queen punter status.

[balthazar]

Base S-class in the USA is 0-60 in 4.8 seconds.

 

 

...the base MB S350 did 0-60 in 7.0 secs in 2014...

So, how come it was OK last year to be that slow??

[smk4565]

And the S350 is a diesel, which isn't sold in the USA in this generation of S-class.  Diesels are obviously made for fuel economy before 0-60 time.   I think CT6 is more of a Hyundai Equus/Kia K900 competitor anyway.

[oldshurst442]

And the S350 is a diesel, which isn't sold in the USA in this generation of S-class.  Diesels are obviously made for fuel economy before 0-60 time.   I think CT6 is more of a Hyundai Equus/Kia K900 competitor anyway.

 

Yeah well...

 Heil Hitler back to you!

 

Did you know that Hitler may have not  actually committed suicide back in May of 1945?

 

Your leader actually survived the war!!!

 

Kudos for him and to you!

 

In the mean time...it wont be long when Cadillac will jump back above Mercedes Benz...it aint hard to do actually...

 

Looking at how  Maybach keeps on failing...I wouldnt put M-B that much high on a horse if I were you....but hey...however cooks your goose...step.

Edited November 2, 2015 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

But you were talking about ACCELERATION TIMES of the BASE MODEL, of which the S350 IN 2014 was, was it not? Isn't the '350' portion of the name the indicator there? Did you miss my repeated mention of the model year 2014?

 

Such was the case for the S-class (0-60 time of 7.0 secs) less than 24 months ago. "Inexcusable" some MB fans would say (were they not abject apologists). Still not seeing how you could possibly excuse that, especially for someone all too quick to bring up past automotive examples AND defend Absolutely Everything mercedes does. 7.0 secs to 60 is, as you might volunteer- slower than a V6 camry.

[smk4565]

There hasn't been an S350 since 2013 model year.  And a 2016 S-class does not do 0-60 in 7 seconds.   Outside of Europe Mercedes went to the plug in hybrid to replace the diesel for the fuel economy model, seems like that was a good idea in light of the VW scandal, and the plug in technology offers better fuel economy and acceleration than the diesel did.

 

And the CT6 is priced below the Kia K900 and Hyundai Equus, so we know where Cadillac has placed the target and it is not on the S-class, so it doesn't really matter.

[Drew Dowdell]

Cadillac is creating their own niche with this car.  Yes it is the top sedan in the range, but this is not their S-Class fighter (still, *sigh*, I know)

 

This is a 7-series sized car that will handle and perform like a 5-series (or better)