Chevrolet News:Spying: Looking Inside the Chevrolet Bolt

[hyperv6]

The ELR was just a deal where some of the old GM people thought it was a good idea to take a show car never really intended for production and put a Volt Drivetrain in it. Once they were gone you can notice that the new Cadillac people have no interest in it.

 

The fact is Tesla really did not do anything different than to offer a very expensive large sedan that no one in the industry though anyone would buy. Well they did mostly due to over the top marketing as Musk rivals PT Barnum in generating excitement.

 

The fact is the rest now know it can be done and they all will enter this market sooner than later. GM can do it very easy and I expect with the coming platforms they will enter a Tesla fighter in due time. The Truth is Cadillac is more focused on a Benz and BMW fighter than Tesla right now as the volume is so very low in this segment. I expect a due use car where it may be offered in Gas and Electric models. This way they can spread the cost out. Tesla could use a gas version of their car right now as it would really increase the volume to where they need it. You can only go on losing money per unit for so long. Lutz addressed this in his column in Road and Track this month.

 

There is no doubt that GM and Ford could build a Tesla killer but why? Tesla is not making money yet and the segment is small. To do this right they need to make a platform designed to be used correctly with the electric platform. This is expensive and at this point they would never recover the cost short term. These models will come in time and now is not the time. How many other things does Cadillac and Lincoln need to address first. Many!

I agree with you on most points and believe GM needs to get the VOLT powertrain out on multiple lines of auto's, every car line for sure should have a version of the VOLT powertrain.

 

Tesla hates petro so much sadly they will lose due to not embracing some kind of VOLT type power train. Imagine a generator on an auto with a 200 mile range of battery and with generator 600 miles is capable. This becomes a real road trip capable auto.

Tesla and Musk do not hate gasoline he just believes he can do this all on a couple models and all electric and fully committed to it.

the real trick is for GM is they have to continue to perfect the Volt system to the point it is cheaper and more capable. Then each platform much be designed to be used with it. We have seen a marked difference in the Cruze based Volt with the new platform vs. the converted old one.

I feel GM's plan is to make all platforms able to support this and even all electric along with the gas powered drivetrains as this would open the door to about anything even Fuel Cell.

The truth is with the coming regulations they need to be prepared for about anything.

Must could really offset the losses with a gas powered version of his car but I really don't thing it is possible with the way it is. Also he really now does not have the money for it unless he takes it out of his own pocket. That is what prevents this not that he hates gas. For Gods sake the man used to own a McLaren F1 and may still own it. Musk in a entapenure not a tree hugger when you really learn about him. He may poses himself as saving the world but he feels he can do it by paying people to make things the can make money with. He also wants to make an image of himself as a Henry Ford and Edison while paying others to do the inventing.

Edited October 13, 2015 by hyperv6

[G. David Felt]

Interesting take on Musk and Tesla. Hate might be a bit strong of a word, yet based on videos of him being interviewed and talking about the car industry, he clearly does not have any passion for using petro. He has committed to pure electric and I will give him the credit of making a true massive move in the industry that people are clearly excited by.

 

Over all, I have seen plenty of commercials in the last few days by Toyota about turning Lemonade into Fuel for their Fuel cell auto. Take a Tesla, add a Fuel cell generator and we have a incredible green auto.

 

https://youtu.be/aYYT7LEBFYo

[hyperv6]

Interesting take on Musk and Tesla. Hate might be a bit strong of a word, yet based on videos of him being interviewed and talking about the car industry, he clearly does not have any passion for using petro. He has committed to pure electric and I will give him the credit of making a true massive move in the industry that people are clearly excited by.

 

Over all, I have seen plenty of commercials in the last few days by Toyota about turning Lemonade into Fuel for their Fuel cell auto. Take a Tesla, add a Fuel cell generator and we have a incredible green auto.

 

https://youtu.be/aYYT7LEBFYo[/size]

I have driven the fuel cell GM cars and I love them. The real issues are going to be where to refuel them and how long they take to fill. The one I drove had limited placed to refuel and when you did it was a half hour process.

I have past experience working with Liquid Nitrogen and Oxygen and it is something that needs to be used with care as not only could the fumes from a spill be an issue but the cold that is around -300 degrees could be an issue. I am sure these things will be worked out but it will take time to get them done as companies will not invest in filling stations and improvements till there are cars and until there are filling stations it will be hard to sell cars.

As for your claim Elon has no passion for using petro. Well if you were a farmers growing and selling only vegetables and not beef you would more than likely espouse that you are a Vegan.

Elon is more a marketing and salesman than anything else. This has gotten him where he is at today. Some of the most successful people in history have been damn good salesman. In this case he may have over reached in the long run. While he has done well to progress the EV in the eye of the public my fear has been that if this thing goes the way of the Delorean it could do more damage than good. So far my fears have been unfounded but if Tesla does go down and takes a lot of other peoples money with it the damage could be great in the eye of the public too.

I hope he survives as I don't want to see people lose their investment but also I do not want to see a black mark on the industry either. As for Elon he will land on his feet no matter what.

I get the feeling with what GM is doing they will hold cards in each segment and will be very competitive or a leader in most of them. This is a good sign for GM's future. The Bolt in my eyes is only the second step in this process that will continue with other new models. If they can make a Prius sized hit here this would drive them to a position that will gain trust with the other alt fuel products all the while they still sell the Gas powered cars that will pay the bills with even more profitable new products and platforms.

As for Elon he has more competition coming in a limited segment and if he does not advance his present model soon it will get old fast. Also the X model is going to be exciting at first but it has a compromised platform with the doors that will prove to be less popular in places with snow and rain outside California. Just wait for the large chunk of snow to fall in the rear car seat of a child and see how happy the parent is when they have to clean it out in the cold.

[G. David Felt]

But Elon says his doors will offer protection from the elements!

[regfootball]

He also wants to make an image of himself as a Henry Ford and Edison while paying others to do the inventing.

 

Here is what pisses me off about Tesla.  Tesla is the equivalent of the computer makers back in the day.  Bolt together a bunch of parts developed by others and market them.

 

By that in this case here, yes Tesla is investing heavily in the electric propulsion, but they are basically buying / stealing all the other technological development of the rest of the car from vendors and all the R&D done by the big automakers for decades.  As an example, it's not like Tesla has to develop an airbag on their own.  Or a brake disc.  Or a wiper motor.  Or a power steering system.  Just buy whatever from Bosch, etc.

 

They haven't done the work, so i don't want them to claim the prize.  I'd love for GM to be the game changer in electrics but as previously mentioned the wiser and more practical solution is all the automakers getting together to standardize bits and pieces.

Edited October 14, 2015 by regfootball

[G. David Felt]

 

He also wants to make an image of himself as a Henry Ford and Edison while paying others to do the inventing.

 

Here is what pisses me off about Tesla.  Tesla is the equivalent of the computer makers back in the day.  Bolt together a bunch of parts developed by others and market them.

 

By that in this case here, yes Tesla is investing heavily in the electric propulsion, but they are basically buying / stealing all the other technological development of the rest of the car from vendors and all the R&D done by the big automakers for decades.  As an example, it's not like Tesla has to develop an airbag on their own.  Or a brake disc.  Or a wiper motor.  Or a power steering system.  Just buy whatever from Bosch, etc.

 

They haven't done the work, so i don't want them to claim the prize.  I'd love for GM to be the game changer in electrics but as previously mentioned the wiser and more practical solution is all the automakers getting together to standardize bits and pieces.

 

 

I understand what you are saying but there is a HUGE Upside to this, let Elon have his spotlight in the sunshine. He has by doing this brought more people together and increased the experience and skill set of engineers, managers, marketing, etc. and these people are leaving to go back and work for other auto companies to help them build EV auto's.

 

Long term, is let Tesla have their Elite Title of Luxury EV maker for now as other companies have the economy of scale to build and surpass them in the long run. This is a marathon, not a sprint and I believe GM can and will surpass Tesla in the future. This goes to say for other auto companies as well.

[Cmicasa the Great]

GM is a corporation coming out of the worst fiasco ever in its 107 year history just 6 years ago. Their goal is profitability, and never ever having to go thru that turmoil again. Tesla is an upstart company funded personally by a Billionaire from the tech industry that hasn't made one profit since its inception. It sells a vehicle that, in reality, has its core creation set waaaaaaaaaay back when GM was just a thought in Billy Durant's head. 

 

True innovation lies in intermingling of great engineering within the confines of every day life, while at the same time turning a profit. We can put up patents from the last 20 years and each year I think U will see GM flying high. To put up inventions and innovations of GM, a 107 year old company would truly boggle the mind. 

 

Electric Start, Air bag, Automatic, Catalytic Converter, Onstar, the Volt (EV1) not to mention the innovation of the Corporation in modern times by A. Sloan to name a very minute few.

 

 

The EV1 is a great example. The Tesla S employing a 60-85 kWh lithium-ion achieves a 208 to 270 mi range. The EV1's 26.7-kWh nickel-metal-hydride battery pack 100 to 140 miles. Think about that. What if.. 20 years ago.. the EV1 had of had the same AVAILABLE NOW battery tech that the Model S does? 20 Years is a long time. Innovations in the modern world have proven that it moves exponentially thru time, building on top of what has already been built innovative. In 1996 a Intel Pentium 133 MHz PC with a 400 MB hard drive would have set your soul on fire. Today I won't even get into what we have just walking around in our cell phones.Technology continuously evolved by building on top of what had already been done. Had the Electric Car not been killed in 1996.. I truly believe we would be capable of 1000 mile EVS. GM would have lead that charge

 

The EV1 could go from 0 to 60 mph in nine seconds, while Car and Driver tested the 2011 Nissan Leaf SL to do it in 10 seconds. Ironically the NiMh battery powered EV1 had a longer range than the current Nissan leaf. Bottom line is that GM balances its innovations more to the market than the science fair types that must have their projects front and center. While Tesla is essentially nothing but a toy car concept brought to life-size proportions, 20 years after GM did it and killed it due to the market not being a viable one due to gas prices at the time being less than $1

 

 

Elon saw this 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and said to his people... "Here is my vision.. now  implement it..

 

"I promise U.. its 95% the same thing as the Tesla Model S

 

[G. David Felt]

Awesome Post 

Cmicasa the Great

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

Awesome Post 

Cmicasa the Great

 

 

 

 

Why Thank U 

[hyperv6]

I agree that Tesla really has not provided any real advances in technology that anyone else has or could use. They did discover people would over pay for a large expensive sedan if you market the hell out of it.

Musk has claimed so many things about the car that I think it can cure cancer too now. LOL!

The resources of companies like Ford, VW, GM, Benz etc. are all more capable than just Tesla. But right now most are not willing to allocate that much resources to build an expensive car in a very limited segment.

GM is and the others are working on cheaper cars and many other technologies as no one single technology is a fit all replacement for everyone. They are spreading the field out and giving us many choices and not betting all on one technology.

Edited October 14, 2015 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

 

He also wants to make an image of himself as a Henry Ford and Edison while paying others to do the inventing.

 

Here is what pisses me off about Tesla.  Tesla is the equivalent of the computer makers back in the day.  Bolt together a bunch of parts developed by others and market them.

 

By that in this case here, yes Tesla is investing heavily in the electric propulsion, but they are basically buying / stealing all the other technological development of the rest of the car from vendors and all the R&D done by the big automakers for decades.  As an example, it's not like Tesla has to develop an airbag on their own.  Or a brake disc.  Or a wiper motor.  Or a power steering system.  Just buy whatever from Bosch, etc.

 

They haven't done the work, so i don't want them to claim the prize.  I'd love for GM to be the game changer in electrics but as previously mentioned the wiser and more practical solution is all the automakers getting together to standardize bits and pieces.

 

 

uh... all manufacturers do that.  Why do you think the Takata recall is such a big deal and why nearly all steering wheels have the same basic spoke shape?   When the Toyota accelerator scandal broke out, it cascaded throughout the industry.  And what Sergio is suggesting is even more of it.

 

And really, does a manufacturer need to design a new wiper motor every time they redesign a car?   Just take one off the shelf, fabricate a mounting bracket, and bolt it down.  Why waste resources on reinventing a whole bunch of perfectly good wheels?

[hyperv6]

He also wants to make an image of himself as a Henry Ford and Edison while paying others to do the inventing.

Here is what pisses me off about Tesla.  Tesla is the equivalent of the computer makers back in the day.  Bolt together a bunch of parts developed by others and market them.

 

By that in this case here, yes Tesla is investing heavily in the electric propulsion, but they are basically buying / stealing all the other technological development of the rest of the car from vendors and all the R&D done by the big automakers for decades.  As an example, it's not like Tesla has to develop an airbag on their own.  Or a brake disc.  Or a wiper motor.  Or a power steering system.  Just buy whatever from Bosch, etc.

 

They haven't done the work, so i don't want them to claim the prize.  I'd love for GM to be the game changer in electrics but as previously mentioned the wiser and more practical solution is all the automakers getting together to standardize bits and pieces.

 

uh... all manufacturers do that.  Why do you think the Takata recall is such a big deal and why nearly all steering wheels have the same basic spoke shape?   When the Toyota accelerator scandal broke out, it cascaded throughout the industry.  And what Sergio is suggesting is even more of it.

 

And really, does a manufacturer need to design a new wiper motor every time they redesign a car?   Just take one off the shelf, fabricate a mounting bracket, and bolt it down.  Why waste resources on reinventing a whole bunch of perfectly good wheels?

Drew this shows how much he does not know how things work. So many parts are build and supplied to the MFG with their parts and built into units that are supplied to GM.

Case in point GM had issues on the Delta steering columns and they went after the supplier that built them and delivered them complete to the plants as a unit. I remember the many things I saw that came into Lordstown as units sold to GM.

It is not just computer companies but many industries do this anymore as one company can no longer go it alone anymore and have not for a long time.

Even in Aviation companies like BFG sell tire, wheel, brake and landing gear as a unit to the airplane companies and even the Space Shuttle.

I even know one man I got to spend a lot of time with that supplies almost all the shifter interlocks to the auto industry. He also had a company that turned all the LS cams for GM and owns a radiator company that makes one of the best. He did pretty well for a local Detroit Racer.

Edited November 10, 2015 by hyperv6

[regfootball]

Tesla doesn't invest in the vehicle dynamics research as much and doesn't have the knowledge and experience gm's and others do. They do build a darn nice kit car though. If gm wanted to, they could slaughter this backyard creation that tesla builds. Ah the cute little upstarts. Tesla is like a car in the sharper image or brook stone holiday catalog.

Edited November 11, 2015 by regfootball

[hyperv6]

Here is where the undoing for Tesla will be. They are now having trouble just getting a second and third model out. The second model will sell well as a SUV but it will be limited with odd things like the Doors etc. The third model may be built in China and I expect it to be late and be more difficult to be profitable.

 

Finally the elephant in the room. The Model S is getting old already. It is still the same car with only some hardware and software updates that just make it more expensive. They will need to change the car to a second gen soon but I do not see them making the money or having the time to do it. Lets fact it they are struggling to make the second two models so revamping an older original sedan may be a challenge at this point. Even a mild refresh will not be enough in this segment with the coming cars from others like Porsche and the like.

 

It only gets tougher for them as the competitors all have larger R&D and also live on many other non electric models to make money and make profits to pay for new development.

 

I just saw a story the other day that Morgan Stanley is recommending that Tesla get out of the car business and sell systems and parts to the others. That to me sounds as if it would be smarter mover if they really have anything to sell that the others could not do as easily or better themselves.

Like in the California Gold Rush the Miners were not the ones who made money. Those who make money did so selling supplies to the miners. Even the tone of Fremont where Tesla is built is names for one of these money makers in the rush.