GM News: Chevrolet Colorado, GMC Canyon Diesels To Be Further Scrutinized

[William Maley]

The Chevrolet Colorado and GMC Canyon Diesels are feeling the backlash of the Volkswagen diesel scandal. According to Automotive News, General Motors has been told by EPA and California Air Resources Board (CARB) will not certify the trucks until they have undergone tests in the lab and on the road.

 

“The EPA and CARB told us they are going to do on-road testing," said Scott Yackley, assistant chief engineer for Chevrolet Trucks.

 

GM says the additional testing could push back the launch of the diesel trucks, which are expected to launch in the fourth quarter. But GM is confident that the trucks will pass the tests.

 

“Part of our development process is on-road and off-road [laboratory] testing,” said Yackley.

 

Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

View full article

[ccap41]

It sucks they are kind of stuck in the middle of this but it is expected after what VW was pulling over them.

[G. David Felt]

I have NO PROBLEM with this bump in the road for GM. Prove everyone wrong that you have a Green awesome little Duramax and then shove it up their bum with stellar sales!

[smk4565]

I assume these have the urea system and that they are held to the same standard as a gas engine.  Hopefully people still buy diesels, because they do offer the best combo of torque and fuel economy.

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't mind them getting this test over and done with as they launch.  No chance for controversy later.

[hyperv6]

Well the one thing we have going here is we have two kinds of Diesel buyers in this country. We have the Euro Diesel buyers and we have truck buyers. I really do not expect this to hurt Chevy. the only thing I think they need to watch is will truck buyers buy a 4 cylinder diesel as most of them want the larger trucks with V8 diesel engines.

This is untested waters here as so few trucks with small diesels have been offered. In the past the small GM engines failed but they were weak and happened around the time the Olds Diesls were failing.

It will be interesting to see just how well they sell on their own merits as this is a tough country to market a Diesel unless you are German. Well until now.

[ocnblu]

My three beefs with GM's diesel midsize trucks:  Not available in extended cab.  Not available with manual transmission.  And not available in retail base, or fleet trim.

 

A base, 2WD extended cab Duramax would make a fantastic fleet vehicle.

[El Kabong]

They want to test it more stringently?

I smell an ad blitz

[oldshurst442]

They want to test it more stringently?

I smell an ad blitz

an ad blitz?

 

You are making it waaaaay too easy for me to tie in WW2 with all this VW mess...

 

But I wont....Ill just do The Ramones instead...

 

 

Hey Ho! Lets Go!

 

there is no question...The Colorado and Canyon  will come out of this like the other song I wanna post...

 

LIKE A ROCK!

 

 

Because Bob Seger is nowhere to be found on Youtube...so the commercial will have to do...its where I wanted to go anyway...

[daves87rs]

Should not be an issue.....

[hyperv6]

My three beefs with GM's diesel midsize trucks:  Not available in extended cab.  Not available with manual transmission.  And not available in retail base, or fleet trim.

 

A base, 2WD extended cab Duramax would make a fantastic fleet vehicle.

The lack of a base truck may be due to pricing. This is not a cheap engine anymore due to government regs. I suspect they are holding back on engine price some and adding options to spread out the areas to recoup the profits.

I would hate to see how much this thing would cost with no options vs. the gas model. I bet there would be a big gulf in price.

Our government has taken a Diesel and made it so difficult to price any more with regulations that it has almost priced the engine out of existence. Even Europe with their tight laws are easier but I suspect the Green Party will make a move to work to kill these engines.

It really is a shame.

I just love how the news people are going around saying VW may have killed 11,000 people? They leave out many who are effected are often people who smoked themselves into repertory issues too. Lets face it we are not finding bodies in the street and the fact is even with the failing reading the VW engine is cleaner than any Diesel in the last 100 years.

To really get ill from these engines you generally have to have a contributing illness or you live upstairs over a truck stop. We are not talking black lung here. If anyone was to die from lung/Diesel issues it would be heavy equipment operators who sit behind a stack, Farmers and or truck drivers. One really needs to keep this in perspective as the media like in other cases fails to report all the info. 11K deaths garners more attention than if you really break it down.

[oldshurst442]

 

My three beefs with GM's diesel midsize trucks:  Not available in extended cab.  Not available with manual transmission.  And not available in retail base, or fleet trim.

 

A base, 2WD extended cab Duramax would make a fantastic fleet vehicle.

The lack of a base truck may be due to pricing. This is not a cheap engine anymore due to government regs. I suspect they are holding back on engine price some and adding options to spread out the areas to recoup the profits.

I would hate to see how much this thing would cost with no options vs. the gas model. I bet there would be a big gulf in price.

Our government has taken a Diesel and made it so difficult to price any more with regulations that it has almost priced the engine out of existence. Even Europe with their tight laws are easier but I suspect the Green Party will make a move to work to kill these engines.

It really is a shame.

I just love how the news people are going around saying VW may have killed 11,000 people? They leave out many who are effected are often people who smoked themselves into repertory issues too. Lets face it we are not finding bodies in the street and the fact is even with the failing reading the VW engine is cleaner than any Diesel in the last 100 years.

To really get ill from these engines you generally have to have a contributing illness or you live upstairs over a truck stop. We are not talking black lung here. If anyone was to die from lung/Diesel issues it would be heavy equipment operators who sit behind a stack, Farmers and or truck drivers. One really needs to keep this in perspective as the media like in other cases fails to report all the info. 11K deaths garners more attention than if you really break it down.

 

 

AHEM...

Our government has taken a Diesel and made it so difficult to price any more with regulations that it has almost priced the engine out of existence. Even Europe with their tight laws are easier but I suspect the Green Party will make a move to work to kill these engines.

 

LINKY: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11571615/Dirty-diesel-cars-could-be-banished-as-Britain-ordered-to-cut-air-pollution.html

 

from the linky: 

 

Diesel cars could be phased out in Britain after the Supreme Court ruled that the Government must take urgent steps to tackle air pollution in cities.

The UK is facing millions of pounds of fines from the European Commission for failing to cut levels of nitrogen dioxide (NO2).

On Wednesday judges in Britain’s highest court ordered the Department for the Environment to submit new air quality plans by the end of the year setting out radical ways of tackling pollution.

Environmental and motoring groups said that diesel cars and trucks were likely to be targeted because they emit the largest amount of nitrogen dioxide. Freight companies predicted that diesel drivers would be offered incentives to scrap their vehicles or face stiff new taxes.

However Edmund King of the AA warned that the 11 million motorists who were ‘misled’ into buying diesel cars during Gordon Brown’s ‘dash for diesel’ would feel betrayed.

“There have been confusing messages and the goal now seems to have changed from encouragement to the demonising of diesel,” said Mr King.

“This won’t just affect big polluting trucks, but taxi drivers and families with people-carriers as well. This could drive down the value of cars dramatically.

"We all want better air quality but knee-jerk reactions without considering the science will not help air quality, industry or drivers.”

 

Therefore....your hatred towards your own  government entities are misplaced...

 

Europe...OK...in this case the United Kingdom...but Im sure I could find other European countries that have vilified the diesel...maybe not...I do know of the U.K. though...will outlaw the diesel very soon...and VW's mess is NOT doing the diesel engine any favours...

 

So...wanna continue this charade against YOUR OWN guvment?

 

 

[oldshurst442]

The thing is...even in that article that I posted...to NOT have the PUBLIC go in an outrage...the British government wants to go baby steps with the banning of diesels...that is why the knee jerk reaction was mentioned...

 

Why?

 

11 million diesel motorists will be affected....that have been "misled"...

 only to mention science again...and maybe the numbers are not correct...

 

YOU will say that its the green movement that is pushing for this...

 

OK...

 

fair enough...

 

Take a study of Los Angeles air pollution from the 1970s and the 1980s and then come and complain to me about air pollution...

Dont forget when you study that...to also take into consideration how Europe's air quality was in those times also...Athens Greece should surprise you...

 

And THEN come and complain to me...

 

Before you do that though...take a looksie on how China's air quality is as of today...

And THEN come and complain to me...

 

 

But before you do that...learn about what the TRUTH is behind diesels and THEN come and talk to me....

 

About diesels...I aint gonna pretend I know...because I dont...so with the diesel part of this argument....teach me...

But before you do that...

 

Learn why their are entities like the EPA around....PS: I dont care if they are corrupt also...

 

Why?

 

Because I happen to assume that diesels...just like leaded gasoline...is NOT good for the air that we breathe...

So...

 

If diesels have to be regulated with an iron fist....so be it...

If VW screwed the pooch for EVERYBODY concerning diesels...c'est la vie...

 

The world had to adapt when killing whales for fuel was outlawed...

The world had to adapt when using coal was mostly abolished...

The world nearly had to adapt when the world said no more nuclear reactors for electricity...GERMANY has outlawed them nuclear reactors...yes Japan was the reason....Quebec shut down its nuclear reactor too...

 

The world had to adapt when leaded gasoline was no more...

 The world will have to adapt if and when diesels will be outlawed...C'est. La. Vie.

 

PSS: All those things that I mentioned that were banned from different places on the planet....they all have one common denominator...

 

Can you guess what that is?

 

They are all very harmful to our planet...

 

We continue to pollute it...yes...they are far WORSE things that pollute than diesels...

 

If that is the case...maybe we should return to leaded gasolines...

 

Maybe we should continue whaling.

 

Maybe we should go back to urinating on the streets....just because there are far worse polluters on the planet...

Edited October 1, 2015 by oldshurst442

[Suaviloquent]

You know the biggest advantage about diesel fuel efficiency has to do with the fact they run on homogeneous charge compression ignition, and then recirculate exhaust gases to pump more air into the cylinders.

 

If HCCI becomes feasible for gas engines, there's going to be massive increases in FE and reduced engine complexity.

 

In other words, diesel engines work just fine, but the alternatives that might just be possible; will just kill it, or make it extremely uneconomical. Basically it's gonna be a product with a negative and high reduced cost.

 

As for this truck; yeah it's gonna give heat to a lot of different trucks. But it will not be a viable business model for GM on a large scale. The reason why it is packaged the way it is, is because GM does not want this truck to be any threat to the Silverado.  They want the enthusiast and the mid-size buyer. People who weren't going to buy full-size anyways. Plain business sense. 

[Drew Dowdell]

You know the biggest advantage about diesel fuel efficiency has to do with the fact they run on homogeneous charge compression ignition, and then recirculate exhaust gases to pump more air into the cylinders.

If HCCI becomes feasible for gas engines, there's going to be massive increases in FE and reduced engine complexity.

In other words, diesel engines work just fine, but the alternatives that might just be possible; will just kill it, or make it extremely uneconomical. Basically it's gonna be a product with a negative and high reduced cost.

As for this truck; yeah it's gonna give heat to a lot of different trucks. But it will not be a viable business model for GM on a large scale. The reason why it is packaged the way it is, is because GM does not want this truck to be any threat to the Silverado. They want the enthusiast and the mid-size buyer. People who weren't going to buy full-size anyways. Plain business sense.

I bet a couple of Directors of Powertrains got visits from brass lately asking them to dust off those old HCCI plans they had back in 08.

[ocnblu]

I would like to see them bring the Colorado 7 to the U.S. market as a Trailblazer/Envoy, with gas 3.6 and Duramax availability.

[G. David Felt]

Well the one thing we have going here is we have two kinds of Diesel buyers in this country. We have the Euro Diesel buyers and we have truck buyers. I really do not expect this to hurt Chevy. the only thing I think they need to watch is will truck buyers buy a 4 cylinder diesel as most of them want the larger trucks with V8 diesel engines.

This is untested waters here as so few trucks with small diesels have been offered. In the past the small GM engines failed but they were weak and happened around the time the Olds Diesls were failing.

It will be interesting to see just how well they sell on their own merits as this is a tough country to market a Diesel unless you are German. Well until now.

 

Back in the 70's when GM had Isuzu build their mini pickup, the Luv truck series, the Diesel sold like hotcakes and you still find them around running, rusty as heck but still running. I believe they will sell well.

I would like to see them bring the Colorado 7 to the U.S. market as a Trailblazer/Envoy, with gas 3.6 and Duramax availability.

I agree with your thinking here, I would love them to do this. I think there is a solid market for it here.

[ccap41]

 

My three beefs with GM's diesel midsize trucks:  Not available in extended cab.  Not available with manual transmission.  And not available in retail base, or fleet trim.

 

A base, 2WD extended cab Duramax would make a fantastic fleet vehicle.

The lack of a base truck may be due to pricing. This is not a cheap engine anymore due to government regs. I suspect they are holding back on engine price some and adding options to spread out the areas to recoup the profits.

I would hate to see how much this thing would cost with no options vs. the gas model. I bet there would be a big gulf in price.

Our government has taken a Diesel and made it so difficult to price any more with regulations that it has almost priced the engine out of existence. Even Europe with their tight laws are easier but I suspect the Green Party will make a move to work to kill these engines.

It really is a shame.

I just love how the news people are going around saying VW may have killed 11,000 people? They leave out many who are effected are often people who smoked themselves into repertory issues too. Lets face it we are not finding bodies in the street and the fact is even with the failing reading the VW engine is cleaner than any Diesel in the last 100 years.

To really get ill from these engines you generally have to have a contributing illness or you live upstairs over a truck stop. We are not talking black lung here. If anyone was to die from lung/Diesel issues it would be heavy equipment operators who sit behind a stack, Farmers and or truck drivers. One really needs to keep this in perspective as the media like in other cases fails to report all the info. 11K deaths garners more attention than if you really break it down.

 

I'll defend what that 11,000 people may have come from. I posted a link saying the NOx(correct that if it is wrong.. whatever it is that is harmful from diesels) kills 11,000 people per year. It didn't say anything specific about VW or any one manufacturer just that diesel exhaust IS harmful(if not treated correctly).

 

I'll try and find where I posted it so you can read it. It definitely was not vehicle or manufacturer specific. In all honesty it is coming from all of the HD vehicles out there whether semi trucks or construction equipment. But, the VW's were supposedly clean and they were not that.. I think that is where some of this discrepancy has come from. 

 

You know the biggest advantage about diesel fuel efficiency has to do with the fact they run on homogeneous charge compression ignition, and then recirculate exhaust gases to pump more air into the cylinders.

If HCCI becomes feasible for gas engines, there's going to be massive increases in FE and reduced engine complexity.

In other words, diesel engines work just fine, but the alternatives that might just be possible; will just kill it, or make it extremely uneconomical. Basically it's gonna be a product with a negative and high reduced cost.

As for this truck; yeah it's gonna give heat to a lot of different trucks. But it will not be a viable business model for GM on a large scale. The reason why it is packaged the way it is, is because GM does not want this truck to be any threat to the Silverado. They want the enthusiast and the mid-size buyer. People who weren't going to buy full-size anyways. Plain business sense.

I bet a couple of Directors of Powertrains got visits from brass lately asking them to dust off those old HCCI plans they had back in 08.

 

I thought either Hyundai or Kia still have an active program around this. I read about it not too long ago.

[ccap41]

I just love how the news people are going around saying VW may have killed 11,000 people? They leave out many who are effected are often people who smoked themselves into repertory issues too. Lets face it we are not finding bodies in the street and the fact is even with the failing reading the VW engine is cleaner than any Diesel in the last 100 years.

To really get ill from these engines you generally have to have a contributing illness or you live upstairs over a truck stop. We are not talking black lung here. If anyone was to die from lung/Diesel issues it would be heavy equipment operators who sit behind a stack, Farmers and or truck drivers. One really needs to keep this in perspective as the media like in other cases fails to report all the info. 11K deaths garners more attention than if you really break it down.

 

 

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/2013/11/diesel-lung-cancer-deaths/

 

This was the link I was refering to. I believe my prior post's assesment of it wasn't very accurate..sloppy memory..

[hyperv6]

I just love how the news people are going around saying VW may have killed 11,000 people? They leave out many who are effected are often people who smoked themselves into repertory issues too. Lets face it we are not finding bodies in the street and the fact is even with the failing reading the VW engine is cleaner than any Diesel in the last 100 years.

To really get ill from these engines you generally have to have a contributing illness or you live upstairs over a truck stop. We are not talking black lung here. If anyone was to die from lung/Diesel issues it would be heavy equipment operators who sit behind a stack, Farmers and or truck drivers. One really needs to keep this in perspective as the media like in other cases fails to report all the info. 11K deaths garners more attention than if you really break it down.

 

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/2013/11/diesel-lung-cancer-deaths/

 

This was the link I was refering to. I believe my prior post's assesment of it wasn't very accurate..sloppy memory..

Never questioned your number I just question that someone is out there claiming that many deaths from Diesels but do not post that many of these people also suffer from other things that let the Diesels contribute to their deaths.

Of these deaths how many also have issues from Smoking, Work related damage, Birth Respiratory issues Drug history related issues.

I used to work for a medical company and we dealt with many respiratory patients and generally many of the people did not just have one issues and often times it was a combination and often self inflicted.

I would like to see the medical evidence that can directly tie the deaths of 11K people just to diesel exhaust only. I wager no one can prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt or we would have every diesel maker in court now being sued for all they can be had for.

Like many things today Some people think the Truth is the Truth is you can get enough fools to believe it. The tactic is often to make your case with numbers that could be right or wrong but now way to prove 100% they are spot on. Then you defend it and if you are being accused of not fully disclosing the truth you attack the people who say you are full of it.

We see this in the global warming debate all the time. If the facts are there clear and indisputable then prove it but most times the numbers are not beyond a shadow of a doubt. This is true for both sides.

Science has been wrong countless ways in our history and we all need to remain open minded to anything not just because someone tells you it is true. I fine it odd if you have the absolute proof in something why do they have to be so defensive?

There are folks out there who want to vilify the Diesel and they will do and say what ever they need to do in getting their way. People Lie Plain and Simple.

Like most things today everyone lies and the truth is somewhere in between. Since the web has come along so many folks take so many things out of context anymore too.

I just do not buy that many people die because of Diesel unless they have been run over. Now I do believe that it could contribute under the right circumstances but things all have to be just right or the right conditions.

The first fact is people Lie. The second fact of Life is people die. I am sure there are a couple folks who died from a defective computer mouse if you did deep enough.

Hell we could say Kool Aid kills thousands but we can leave out that they were diabetics that should not be drinking the sugar.

The real problem is the larger the crowd the lower the collective IQ. Anymore we as a society have lost our common Knowledge and common Sense to make rational and informed opinions and thoughts. Hell so many people today could not tell you who the VP is but they can tell you what Bruce Jenners new name is. Sad.

[oldshurst442]

Hyper...is still does NOT change the fact that diesels  are a DIRTY fuel....

 

It STILL does NOT change the fact that diesels are targeted...

 

OK....YOU like diesels...it still does not change the fact that when YOU say people lie...that YOU also lie and turn a blind eye.

 

It still does not change the fact that when people lie....they have a hidden agenda...and it still does NOT change the fact that...YOUR OPPOSITE opinion of diesels is BASED on YOUR PERSONAL AGENDA....in WHICH YOU are LYING...

 

 

THAT is THE sad part...when YOU want to push YOUR agenda and YOU push all other agendas on the side...

 

The reality of things...is that diesels...are NOT a very clean fuel...

 

And because today...in 2015....we have BETTER alternatives...

 

YOU could argue the cleanliness of batteries...I wont argue with you on your findings...

 

Just like someone could either be for or against nuclear power....

 

The fact still remains...diesels are not that clean...and their by product is a DIRECT hit to the air we breathe...

 

you could still argue that fact for battery production...which is a moot point because diesel production emits the same amount at the factory level...

But as a fuel source...the battery is cleaner...

 

OK...you could argue about battery disposals...

 

Well...there are laws into place for that...

 

Just like there is for diesel cars and passing EPA emissions...

 

Do you really want me to talk about VW again?

 

 

We all have an agenda...YOURS is just as hypocritical as the ones you seem to distrust.

WHY?

 

When you use as arguments...people die anyway and anyhow...

 

 

Again...the black  plague was hundreds of years ago and was thought to be carried by rats...

 

Nobody thought it was caused by idiot humans urinating in the streets and dumping bath water in the streets etc...

 

So...because people die anyway...and there are worse causes of pollution....do we dare return urinating in the streets?

Edited October 2, 2015 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

I ran out of editing time again...

 

Again...the black  plague was hundreds of years ago and was thought to be carried by rats...

 

Nobody thought it was caused by idiot humans urinating in the streets and dumping bath water in the streets etc...

 

So...because people die anyway...and there are worse causes of pollution....do we dare return urinating in the streets?

 

Why bother with Port-a-Pottys and a sewer system?

 

Why even bother telling corporations NOT to dump crap in rivers and lakes?

 

Why even have clean air acts and laws?

 

Why even have laws?

 

Anarchy is a way to go...

 

Murder....hell...there was another shooting in another school today...

 

Why bother finding solutions?

 

People die anyway...old age, cancer, drug overdose, getting hit by a car...

 

Who cares?

 

Speed, run with scissors in your hands...pollute...

 

Have a free for all....

 

Hidden agendas you say?

 

Well...obviously YOUR hidden agenda is more important than mine...

 

All I want is for corporate greed to stop....and for companies to be responsible when it comes to the planet...

 

If the diesel engine has to go because its a very difficult thing to control emissions wise with all the demands that the modern consumer uts on the automobile...than so be it...

 

Electrics looks like a more viable solution...

 

Could diesels be obsolete?

 

Could be...

 

And maybe THAT is what YOU are afraid to admit...

[ccap41]

I agree Hyper. I just wanted to clarify mostly that that number wasn't directed at VW alone. And I also completely agree that those 6%/11k of lung cancer patients probably have other issues contributing that cannot tie down diesel 100% to the cause. Buuuut if they had been tied directly to diesel(which I highly doubt could even be done, like you said) it could be in part to old diesels never had these stringent restrictions like they do today. And I would wager good money that those who they are counting in those 6% are people around construction, mining, etc equipment all their lives which don't have any restrictions, that I know of. So those do probably put out 95% of the total smog from diesels. Just an guestimate on my part though.

[G. David Felt]

So back ON TOPIC, How long I wonder will this added testing delay the introduction of these awesome little beasts?

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Hyper...is still does NOT change the fact that diesels  are a DIRTY fuel....

 

It STILL does NOT change the fact that diesels are targeted...

 

OK....YOU like diesels...it still does not change the fact that when YOU say people lie...that YOU also lie and turn a blind eye.

 

It still does not change the fact that when people lie....they have a hidden agenda...and it still does NOT change the fact that...YOUR OPPOSITE opinion of diesels is BASED on YOUR PERSONAL AGENDA....in WHICH YOU are LYING...

 

 

THAT is THE sad part...when YOU want to push YOUR agenda and YOU push all other agendas on the side...

 

The reality of things...is that diesels...are NOT a very clean fuel...

 

And because today...in 2015....we have BETTER alternatives...

 

YOU could argue the cleanliness of batteries...I wont argue with you on your findings...

 

Just like someone could either be for or against nuclear power....

 

The fact still remains...diesels are not that clean...and their by product is a DIRECT hit to the air we breathe...

 

you could still argue that fact for battery production...which is a moot point because diesel production emits the same amount at the factory level...

But as a fuel source...the battery is cleaner...

 

OK...you could argue about battery disposals...

 

Well...there are laws into place for that...

 

Just like there is for diesel cars and passing EPA emissions...

 

Do you really want me to talk about VW again?

 

 

We all have an agenda...YOURS is just as hypocritical as the ones you seem to distrust.

WHY?

 

When you use as arguments...people die anyway and anyhow...

 

 

Again...the black  plague was hundreds of years ago and was thought to be carried by rats...

 

Nobody thought it was caused by idiot humans urinating in the streets and dumping bath water in the streets etc...

 

So...because people die anyway...and there are worse causes of pollution....do we dare return urinating in the streets?

 

Bravo olds.

Greeks are some of the smartest MoFo's I know.

 

Has anyone in history come close to the many contributions we gave modern civilization, like:

architecture

philosophy

democracy

astronomy

sports and olympics

mathematics and geometry

alarm clocks

odometer

even early medicine

 

So everyone better listen when a Greek speaks

[oldshurst442]

Greeks

 

 

Hyper...is still does NOT change the fact that diesels  are a DIRTY fuel....

 

It STILL does NOT change the fact that diesels are targeted...

 

OK....YOU like diesels...it still does not change the fact that when YOU say people lie...that YOU also lie and turn a blind eye.

 

It still does not change the fact that when people lie....they have a hidden agenda...and it still does NOT change the fact that...YOUR OPPOSITE opinion of diesels is BASED on YOUR PERSONAL AGENDA....in WHICH YOU are LYING...

 

 

THAT is THE sad part...when YOU want to push YOUR agenda and YOU push all other agendas on the side...

 

The reality of things...is that diesels...are NOT a very clean fuel...

 

And because today...in 2015....we have BETTER alternatives...

 

YOU could argue the cleanliness of batteries...I wont argue with you on your findings...

 

Just like someone could either be for or against nuclear power....

 

The fact still remains...diesels are not that clean...and their by product is a DIRECT hit to the air we breathe...

 

you could still argue that fact for battery production...which is a moot point because diesel production emits the same amount at the factory level...

But as a fuel source...the battery is cleaner...

 

OK...you could argue about battery disposals...

 

Well...there are laws into place for that...

 

Just like there is for diesel cars and passing EPA emissions...

 

Do you really want me to talk about VW again?

 

 

We all have an agenda...YOURS is just as hypocritical as the ones you seem to distrust.

WHY?

 

When you use as arguments...people die anyway and anyhow...

 

 

Again...the black  plague was hundreds of years ago and was thought to be carried by rats...

 

Nobody thought it was caused by idiot humans urinating in the streets and dumping bath water in the streets etc...

 

So...because people die anyway...and there are worse causes of pollution....do we dare return urinating in the streets?

 

Bravo olds.

Greeks are some of the smartest MoFo's I know.

 

Has anyone in history come close to the many contributions we gave modern civilization, like:

architecture

philosophy

democracy

astronomy

sports and olympics

mathematics and geometry

alarm clocks

odometer

even early medicine

 

So everyone better listen when a Greek speaks

 

Greeks are also one of the most sarcastic...on the other hand, regular American folk are one of the most sincerest folk...

 

Is that you being Greek?

Or is that you being American?

 

That is the question for the ages...

 

Well...in this here thread anyway.

 

It dont matter....my moment in the sun regarding this topic is done.

 

And thank-you if you are being American in that reply and well...hey...we're  Greeks, we do what we do if you are being Greek...

[El Kabong]

Blaming VW for lung cancer is roughly the same as blaming Fort Mcmurray for "global warming." Although I will at least acknowledge that lung cancer is a thing.

If VW had played by the rules we would not be having this discussion. And the reason why we would not be having this discussion is because nobody wants to deal with the real elephant in the room: if sooty particulates and NOx are bad for you, then you'd better take care of coal-burning power stations and road/rail freight first.

Yeah. Good luck with that. Barack Obama has been THE advocate for "clean coal" for his presidency.

There is a time and a place to pick on VW, because they did break the rules. Then there is a time to deal with real issues, that require real effort. Eliminating passenger-car diesels is not a real issue.

[oldshurst442]

Blaming VW for lung cancer is roughly the same as blaming Fort Mcmurray for "global warming." Although I will at least acknowledge that lung cancer is a thing.

If VW had played by the rules we would not be having this discussion. And the reason why we would not be having this discussion is because nobody wants to deal with the real elephant in the room: if sooty particulates and NOx are bad for you, then you'd better take care of coal-burning power stations and road/rail freight first.

Yeah. Good luck with that. Barack Obama has been THE advocate for "clean coal" for his presidency.

There is a time and a place to pick on VW, because they did break the rules. Then there is a time to deal with real issues, that require real effort. Eliminating passenger-car diesels is not a real issue.

Well...

I do agree on most points.

 

About passenger car diesels?

 

I dont care really, what the government decides to do. Keep them. Ban them. Its all the same to me.

 

But...coal powered stations and freight trains and trucks are actually NEEDED in the way are system works.

There isnt any other viable alternative solutions. (depending what regions we are talking about...Quebec has many raging rivers and lakes...Hydro-electric power is where Im getting at...so...naturally, coal or nuclear aint exactly a thing here.)

 

Coal powered electricity plants....nuclear reactors have to be built.  Budget and nuclear waste storage have to be well thought of. Maybe that is more hassle than its worth. And its not as if nuclear power plants are without environmental issues.

 

As far as transport diesels go...there is NO OTHER OPTION...we cant eliminate that...

 

But...in a passenger car...I think we could live without it. Remember...I also said passenger cars....

Pick-up trucks for work is not part of this equation...pick-up trucks for work falls under the same category as freight and transport to me...

Literally, passenger...cars.

 

 

I 100% agree though...there is a time and place to bicker about VW...and this is not one of these times or places.

Edited October 2, 2015 by oldshurst442

[El Kabong]

If passenger car diesels are regulated so closely (and they are, supposedly), then they are just low-hanging fruit to be eliminated while the real battles remain unfought.

Nuclear reactors, when properly constructed and run, are how you get electricity when you don't have rivers to dam. There is no two ways about that if you're concerned primarily about air quality and Al Gore-ism. Turbines are useless. Solar is costly, inefficient, and those cells aren't exactly made of pixie dust and unicorn farts.

But those are inconvenient truths, to steal a phrase from a man with a pretty massive carbon footprint.

Edited October 2, 2015 by El Kabong

[ocnblu]

I got to drive an Audi Q7 TDi for an extremely shawt distance today. 

[ocnblu]

Bravo olds.

Greeks are some of the smartest MoFo's I know.

 

Has anyone in history come close to the many contributions we gave modern civilization, like:

architecture

philosophy

democracy

astronomy

buttsecks

sports and olympics

mathematics and geometry

alarm clocks

odometer

even early medicine

 

So everyone better listen when a Greek speaks

 

You forgot one, I fixed it for you. 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

olds,

no sarcasm above.  I agree with what you said, and did so a bit flamboyantly and dramatically, as Greeks are known to do, and why not remind everyone of the incredible contributions while I am at it.

 

You are spot on regarding Diesels.  The benefits of minimal fuel economy gains in Diesel cars are every decreasing, given the gains of petrol engines in efficiency, torque and durability.  The emissions are not worth it.  We can dissect what is causing cancer and other nasty side effects as well, but in the end, it's simply not worth the risk.

[oldshurst442]

If passenger car diesels are regulated so closely (and they are, supposedly), then they are just low-hanging fruit to be eliminated while the real battles remain unfought.

Nuclear reactors, when properly constructed and run, are how you get electricity when you don't have rivers to dam. There is no two ways about that if you're concerned primarily about air quality and Al Gore-ism. Turbines are useless. Solar is costly, inefficient, and those cells aren't exactly made of pixie dust and unicorn farts.

But those are inconvenient truths, to steal a phrase from a man with a pretty massive carbon footprint.

And now...I can 100% agree with you. On all accounts.

 

But...Al Gore types...in politics...are they really willing to commit to properly engineered and properly managed nuclear power plants?

 

Its all about those hidden agendas I also was talking about earlier...unfortunately...they are everywhere, those hidden agendas.

 

Including I.

I just told you guys, ban them, keep them, it makes no difference to me...therefore, when Al Gore types target passenger diesel cars, I dont care enough to voice my opinion either for and most importantly against...other than on an internet forum.

[El Kabong]

But eliminating people's freedom of choice is not cool, if there is no sound underlying logic behind it.

In the western world, nuclear reactors have been safely built. It's running them where you can have issues. Even Fukushima survived the earthquake, it was the tsunami that did in their fail safe mode.

[oldshurst442]

olds,

no sarcasm above.  I agree with what you said, and did so a bit flamboyantly and dramatically, as Greeks are known to do, and why not remind everyone of the incredible contributions while I am at it.

 

You are spot on regarding Diesels.  The benefits of minimal fuel economy gains in Diesel cars are every decreasing, given the gains of petrol engines in efficiency, torque and durability.  The emissions are not worth it.  We can dissect what is causing cancer and other nasty side effects as well, but in the end, it's simply not worth the risk.

I was questioning because I kinda insulted Scott Evans over a MT today...so I did not know how to take your post...since Scott was a tad sensitive...I became a tad sensitive too...

 

OH well...

 

And yeah...because I also feel that diesels in passenger cars really dont have anything to offer, in my opinion, just in case somebody else feels sensitive today, I also feel that diesel passenger cars aint worth the hassle in producing, buying and selling them...

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Not allowing smoking in a restaurant also removes peoples choices.

 

Thank God for the rest of us who would like the choice of not inhaling their poison.

[oldshurst442]

But eliminating people's freedom of choice is not cool, if there is no sound underlying logic behind it.

In the western world, nuclear reactors have been safely built. It's running them where you can have issues. Even Fukushima survived the earthquake, it was the tsunami that did in their fail safe mode.

OK...since you put it that way...that limiting choice is not cool...then you just made me eat my words...

I am many things. Unreasonable is NOT one of those things...

 

II do agree that nuclear power plants in North America are built well....even Fukushima, like you said...earthquake AND tsunami...and its the fail safe mode that failed....but ever so slightly it failed...yo, TWO Acts of God back 2 back...not much engineers could do with that bad luck.

 

Chernobyl and Three Mile Island...lessons were learned...and lessons ARE being respected....

 

Im just questioning Al Gore types in North America on how serious they really are in providing clean alternatives myself...

 

The irony that I have flipped sides on this hidden agenda thing...

 

I aint naive to what Hyper was insinuating...I just wanted to make sure that VW and this diesel mess...well...its FROM THEIR OWN DOING...not Al Gore types...

 

VW just gave more fuel for Al Gore types to use...

[El Kabong]

Not allowing smoking in a restaurant also removes peoples choices.

Thank God for the rest of us who would like the choice of not inhaling their poison.

Yup.

No more diesel pickups. No more diesel passenger cars.

You DO realize that globally, Ford would probably be hit the hardest by this proposed ban, right?

Edited October 2, 2015 by El Kabong

[oldshurst442]

Not allowing smoking in a restaurant also removes peoples choices.

 

Thank God for the rest of us who would like the choice of not inhaling their poison.

And I may have to flip flop again...

 

Hey...If I was American...Mitt Romney...never mind...

 

My real take on this...

 

Yeah...because there are better solutions for passenger cars....diesels in cars should be nixed...

 

That is my final answer. Only for cars though...Pick-up trucks...diesels could stay...

 

 Double standards...I know...I never said I was perfect. Like I said...I also have hidden agendas...

Edited October 2, 2015 by oldshurst442

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Bong is reading what he wants it seems.

 

Olds, did you mention no Diesel trucks, cuz I sure did not.

[El Kabong]

Perhaps you also missed the "global" part.

In any event, I'm quite sure my theoretical ban would include trucks, because passenger vehicles. I suppose there are semantics to be argued if you wish. However, we should be realists.

[ocnblu]

I would like to see more diesel cars on the market.  Their blend of fuel efficiency, coupled with torque-happy fun, cannot be beat.  Long live the diesel engine.

[El Kabong]

I would like to see more diesel cars on the market.  Their blend of fuel efficiency, coupled with torque-happy fun, cannot be beat.  Long live the diesel engine.

As long as they play by the rules, I agree.

[El Kabong]

"And yeah...because I also feel that diesels in passenger cars really dont have anything to offer, in my opinion, just in case somebody else feels sensitive today, I also feel that diesel passenger cars aint worth the hassle in producing, buying and selling them..."

Where's the hassle in producing, buying, and selling them? Everyone besides VW is able to do it, apparently.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. But an opinion based primarily on emotion is not sound. And defending such an argument, as we all have doubtless seen in forums over the years, is setting yourself up for failure.

Edited October 3, 2015 by El Kabong

[oldshurst442]

Perhaps you also missed the "global" part.

In any event, I'm quite sure my theoretical ban would include trucks, because passenger vehicles. I suppose there are semantics to be argued if you wish. However, we should be realists.

To be fair...Im the one with the double standard by mentioning trucks.

But yeah....semantics wont go far with that reality...banning diesels cars....we might as well ban pick-up trucks...

 

But...this conversation that I have happened to start in this way is kinda dumb...and I dont feel good about it.

"And yeah...because I also feel that diesels in passenger cars really dont have anything to offer, in my opinion, just in case somebody else feels sensitive today, I also feel that diesel passenger cars aint worth the hassle in producing, buying and selling them..."

Where's the hassle in producing, buying, and selling them? Everyone besides VW is able to do it, apparently.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. But an opinion based primarily on emotion is not sound. And defending such an argument, as we all have doubtless seen in forums over the years, is setting yourself up for failure.

Oh...I agree...its dumb what I said...

 

Im definitely not on my "A" game tonight.

It all started going downhill when I rubbed Scott the wrong way.

Edited October 3, 2015 by oldshurst442

[El Kabong]

Be cool man.

Remain cool, man.

[El Kabong]

Besides, the Canyonados are doing fine, diesel or no. I strongly suspect the small Duramax is on the up and up so this will only make things better.

[G. David Felt]

I would like to see more diesel cars on the market.  Their blend of fuel efficiency, coupled with torque-happy fun, cannot be beat.  Long live the diesel engine.

until you get 500 mile battery packs with level 3 quick charges and then Diesel is lost as the Electric motor proven by the trains in the yards is far more Torque and cleaner. Now before you go off and say but trains are using diesel generators to drive those electric motors, true, but also true is that as Perot and Buffett have bought up the train companies and merged them, they are also converting them over to CNG as a much cleaner fuel to then drive those electric motors, much the same way we are seeing Semi-Trucks go to CNG and LNG. Even Container shipping companies are moving over to LNG for a cleaner better fuel. 

 

It will take time to change over from Diesel, but long term diesel will fad away. But that does not stop us from enjoying the torquey little monsters today.

[G. David Felt]

"And yeah...because I also feel that diesels in passenger cars really dont have anything to offer, in my opinion, just in case somebody else feels sensitive today, I also feel that diesel passenger cars aint worth the hassle in producing, buying and selling them..."

Where's the hassle in producing, buying, and selling them? Everyone besides VW is able to do it, apparently.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. But an opinion based primarily on emotion is not sound. And defending such an argument, as we all have doubtless seen in forums over the years, is setting yourself up for failure.

I used to think everything should go Diesel till I saw the benefits of CNG and now with Batteries getting where they need to be, I see over the next 10 years auto's going EV as we gain 200 to 500 mile range packs with quick chargers.

 

I can see the US going away over the next 10-20 years from petrol, diesel, CNG, etc in a move to Electric. CNG replacing Coal in power plants, Ferries and Long haul trucks on LNG, even container ships on LNG, days of bunker fuel, diesel, petrol will come to an end down the road but not now.

 

Chevy Bolt I have High Hopes for.

 

 

And the winner in Looks is the CHEVY BOLT!

 

[ocnblu]

The Chevrolet Bolt will be the only piddly electric car fit to drive OFF the golf course.