VW News: EPA Alleges Volkswagen Used Software on Diesel Vehicles To Skirt Clean-Air Rules

[William Maley]

---

This afternoon, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued a notice of violation to Volkswagen for skirting clean-air rules on some of their TDI models. The EPA says certain Volkswagen and Audi diesel models from 2009 to 2015 model years had special emission control software that could detect when a car is undergoing EPA emissions testing and turns on the full emissions controls. The software would turn off the controls during real-world driving. This allowed Volkswagen not to equip urea injection and/or more complex emission-control systems onto some of their vehicles.

 

“These violations are very serious, not only because illegal defeat devices results in excess emissions many times the allowable standard, but also because VW was concealing the facts from EPA, the state of California and consumers. We expected better from VW,” said Cynthia Giles, assistant administrator for the EPA’s Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance in a conference call.

 

Federal officials say they were notified about the difference in emission levels after researchers at West Virginia University started questioning the emission levels on Volkwagen's diesel models. From there, the EPA and California Air Resources Board opened an investigation.

 

“In September, after EPA and CARB demanded an explanation for the identified emission problems, Volkswagen admitted that the cars contained defeat devices,” the EPA said in a statement.

 

The models in question include,

• 2009 – 2015 Audi A3 TDI
• 2009 – 2015 Volkswagen Beetle TDI
• 2009 – 2015 Volkswagen Golf TDI
• 2009 – 2015 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
• 2014 – 2015 Volkswagen Passat TDI
  

Now the EPA is asking Volkswagen to recall the affected vehicles, though they do note that the vehicles are safe to drive. The EPA hasn't ordered any fines at this time, as the investigation is still ongoing. Federal law allows the EPA to levy a maximum fine of $37,500 per vehicle. With around 482,000 vehicles with the illegal software, Volkswagen could be looking at a maximum fine of $18 billion dollars.

 

"VW is cooperating with the investigation; we are unable to comment further at this time," the company said in a statement.

 

Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required), Green Car Reports, EPA

 

Press Release is on Page 2

---

 

EPA, California Notify Volkswagen of Clean Air Act Violations

 

Release Date: 09/18/2015
Contact Information: [email protected]

• Carmaker allegedly used software that circumvents emissions testing for certain air pollutants
  

Washington - Today, EPA is issuing a notice of violation (NOV) of the Clean Air Act (CAA) to Volkswagen AG, Audi AG, and Volkswagen Group of America, Inc. (collectively referred to as Volkswagen). The NOV alleges that four-cylinder Volkswagen and Audi diesel cars from model years 2009-2015 include software that circumvents EPA emissions standards for certain air pollutants. California is separately issuing an In-Use Compliance letter to Volkswagen, and EPA and the California Air Resources Board (CARB) have both initiated investigations based on Volkswagen’s alleged actions.

 

“Using a defeat device in cars to evade clean air standards is illegal and a threat to public health,” said Cynthia Giles, Assistant Administrator for the Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance. “Working closely with the California Air Resources Board, EPA is committed to making sure that all automakers play by the same rules. EPA will continue to investigate these very serious matters.”

 

“Working with US EPA we are taking this important step to protect public health thanks to the dogged investigations by our laboratory scientists and staff,” said Air Resources Board Executive Officer Richard Corey. “Our goal now is to ensure that the affected cars are brought into compliance, to dig more deeply into the extent and implications of Volkswagen’s efforts to cheat on clean air rules, and to take appropriate further action.”

 

As described in the NOV, a sophisticated software algorithm on certain Volkswagen vehicles detects when the car is undergoing official emissions testing, and turns full emissions controls on only during the test. The effectiveness of these vehicles’ pollution emissions control devices is greatly reduced during all normal driving situations. This results in cars that meet emissions standards in the laboratory or testing station, but during normal operation, emit nitrogen oxides, or NOx, at up to 40 times the standard. The software produced by Volkswagen is a “defeat device,” as defined by the Clean Air Act.

 

The Clean Air Act requires vehicle manufacturers to certify to EPA that their products will meet applicable federal emission standards to control air pollution, and every vehicle sold in the U.S. must be covered by an EPA-issued certificate of conformity. Motor vehicles equipped with defeat devices, which reduce the effectiveness of the emission control system during normal driving conditions, cannot be certified. By making and selling vehicles with defeat devices that allowed for higher levels of air emissions than were certified to EPA, Volkswagen violated two important provisions of the Clean Air Act.

 

EPA and CARB uncovered the defeat device software after independent analysis by researchers at West Virginia University, working with the International Council on Clean Transportation, a non-governmental organization, raised questions about emissions levels, and the agencies began further investigations into the issue. In September, after EPA and CARB demanded an explanation for the identified emission problems, Volkswagen admitted that the cars contained defeat devices.

 

NOx pollution contributes to nitrogen dioxide, ground-level ozone, and fine particulate matter. Exposure to these pollutants has been linked with a range of serious health effects, including increased asthma attacks and other respiratory illnesses that can be serious enough to send people to the hospital. Exposure to ozone and particulate matter have also been associated with premature death due to respiratory-related or cardiovascular-related effects. Children, the elderly, and people with pre-existing respiratory disease are particularly at risk for health effects of these pollutants.

 

VW may be liable for civil penalties and injunctive relief for the violations alleged in the NOV.

 

The allegations cover roughly 482,000 diesel passenger cars sold in the United States since 2008.

 

Affected diesel models include:

• Jetta (Model Years 2009 – 2015)
• Beetle (Model Years 2009 – 2015)
• Audi A3 (Model Years 2009 – 2015)
• Golf (Model Years 2009 – 2015)
• Passat (Model Years 2014-2015)
  

It is incumbent upon Volkswagen to initiate the process that will fix the cars’ emissions systems. Car owners should know that although these vehicles have emissions exceeding standards, these violations do not present a safety hazard and the cars remain legal to drive and resell. Owners of cars of these models and years do not need to take any action at this time.

View full article

[cp-the-nerd]

Jesus tapdancing Christ. Emissions defeat devices? That's nuts!

[ccap41]

Yeah I just read this a little earlier..

 

I have to admit, it was a good idea. But to even remotely think you could go on without getting caught is absolutely insane. Whether it be somebody spill the beans or an audit, or any of the MANY other ways to get busted. ..but the idea is still a good one.. It just seems more like an aftermarket thing NOT AN OEM ONE.

 

Also, makes sense why they've had so many diesels over here for so long. They were keeping costs down. lol

[Drew Dowdell]

Wow!   I wonder what the car does differently to pass the test that it can't do while driving normally. 

[ccap41]

Now that's one Smart Car!

 

Bah-dun-tshhhh!  

[regfootball]

this is a big deal, isn't it....kudos for their cleverness, but you usually get caught in this day and age,

[William Maley]

Wow!   I wonder what the car does differently to pass the test that it can't do while driving normally. 

 

I'm wondering that as well.

[Drew Dowdell]

I posted this elsehwere:

 

What I'm curious about: In what way does the engine perform differently when it is in "Fool-EPA" mode that would change the performance to the end user? Does the fuel economy go down? Is there less power? Does NVH increase? Can this potentially change the performance of the engine enough to spark lawsuits after drivers get their vehicle reflashed? VW didn't do this just to spite the EPA, therefore what negative attribute is this tuning hiding?

[Intrepidation]

That's f@#king hilarious

[regfootball]

I spent a lot of time on the cruzetalk forums a couple weeks back reading diesel topics.  There are some issues with the Cruze diesel and the DEF tank, so a lot of people were commenting why does the Cruze diesel have a DEF tank and the Vdubs don't yada, etc.

 

Well, here ya go..........

[El Kabong]

Very rarely am I astonished by the automotive world.

But I am astonished at this.

[G. David Felt]

Surprising it took this long for a University to question why everyone else has to use DEF tanks and VW did not. This should have raised red flags years ago.

 

Like Drew and Mud, I do wonder what they are hiding with this programming.

 

Interesting is that Europe noticed and finished their research to find that VW Diesels have been on average spewing out 7 times higher emissions than the Euro 6 standards allow.

 

Europe report is found here:

 

http://www.theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/ICCT_PEMS-study_diesel-cars_20141010.pdf

 

The report and I could totally be misunderstanding, but they say on average all the diesels in Europe put out 40% more emissions than expected for Euro6 standards and that either car companies like VW went with defeat software or too little DEF to control it. If they used the proper amount of DEF to meat the spec, the HP / Torque numbers would be noticeably reduced as would MPG.

[G. David Felt]

So it would seem that VW was wanting to show the best HP / Torque / MPG on the market but they would have fallen short if they had used DEF. Seems like this came down to how much could they skirt the law to give Executives better bonuses while not really following the law.

 

I hope both Europe and the US fine VW heavily for this 3 Billion plus would do it for the damage done.

[regfootball]

here is the sad thing.  the regulators -cough- have become so obsessive with punishing the auto industry to continually force less emmissions and higher mpg.  The regulators have created an environment that encourages cheating and is not centered upon what drivers want. would you really have 1.5 litre malibus if the regulations werent so harsh?

 

in the us with cheaper gas again, you see sales in the compact and sub compact segment going down again.  

 

Europe has always been centered on diesel, yes it needs to be cleaned up but like I said when you become totalitarian in your enforcement you create the need to cheat.

 

Governments should back off for awhile on emissions and back off on mpg.

 

Is the Astra 1.6 euro diesel compliant?

 

the bad press from this fallout could kill the US diesel market and the next cruze diesel if this gets out of hand.

[Suaviloquent]

Well, there's one thing about the regulatory environment for automakers; but it is another to suggest that consumers do not want high fuel economy.

 

Plenty of research into this has shown that consumers place fuel economy consistently among the top 3 factors that they take into consideration when buying a vehicle.

 

Even though gas prices have retreated from their high prices; consumers pick the most efficient options usually. Think of it this way. With the advancements in efficiency over the last decade; consumers can achieve almost the same if not better efficiency with a new vehicle that is significantly larger than their current vehicle being replaces.

 

Some midsize sedans used to be rated at high teens city and low-mid 20s hwy (i.e. 18/25) mpgs with their 4 cylinder base engines not too long ago. Now there's Muranos, Edges and the ilk getting better gas mileage and providing so much more utility. So if a person trades in their replaces their 11 or 12 year old vehicle (avg. age of the U.S. and Canadian auto fleet is around that), they are getting a larger vehicle that returns better efficiency.

 

That's why we are seeing a resurgence in truck and true SUV sales; and crossovers will continue to rise. 

 

What VW did here was NOT caused by a very restrictive and punitive regulatory environment. They plain cheated the system. It's too bad, because as this story gets bigger; the media will definitely overblow the already bad effects of NOx emmissions. 

 

But this is a good opportunity for others like FCA and GM to push within their marketing how their engines are compliant. (I'm assuming they are compliant as well).

[oldshurst442]

(nope...no burnt valve LS7 dude to be found)

 

Just ignore this post...its my way of venting...

[regfootball]

here is the sad thing.  the regulators -cough- have become so obsessive with punishing the auto industry to continually force less emmissions and higher mpg.  The regulators have created an environment that encourages cheating and is not centered upon what drivers want. would you really have 1.5 litre malibus if the regulations werent so harsh?

 

in the us with cheaper gas again, you see sales in the compact and sub compact segment going down again.  

 

Europe has always been centered on diesel, yes it needs to be cleaned up but like I said when you become totalitarian in your enforcement you create the need to cheat.

 

Governments should back off for awhile on emissions and back off on mpg.

 

Is the Astra 1.6 euro diesel compliant?

 

the bad press from this fallout could kill the US diesel market and the next cruze diesel if this gets out of hand.

 

 

here ya go, this VW thing will be the catalyst (no pun intended) for the tyrants (aka governments) to start to rid the world of diesel

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3233253/Diesel-drivers-face-12-50-fee-enter-cities-motorists-told-ditch-petrol-cars-green-fuel.html

 

i wonder if GM and Chevy do an about face on an available diesel for the new Cruze here now, after this,

[oldshurst442]

 

here is the sad thing.  the regulators -cough- have become so obsessive with punishing the auto industry to continually force less emmissions and higher mpg.  The regulators have created an environment that encourages cheating and is not centered upon what drivers want. would you really have 1.5 litre malibus if the regulations werent so harsh?

 

in the us with cheaper gas again, you see sales in the compact and sub compact segment going down again.  

 

Europe has always been centered on diesel, yes it needs to be cleaned up but like I said when you become totalitarian in your enforcement you create the need to cheat.

 

Governments should back off for awhile on emissions and back off on mpg.

 

Is the Astra 1.6 euro diesel compliant?

 

the bad press from this fallout could kill the US diesel market and the next cruze diesel if this gets out of hand.

 

 

here ya go, this VW thing will be the catalyst (no pun intended) for the tyrants (aka governments) to start to rid the world of diesel

 

http://www.dailymail...green-fuel.html

 

i wonder if GM and Chevy do an about face on an available diesel for the new Cruze here now, after this,

 

Sure they can....they could easily play cut throat advertising and just say their Cruze Diesel does NOT cheat the system and its clean...unlike VW's TDi "clean" diesel..

 

They could say...EPA tested and approved and NOT circumvented...

[Drew Dowdell]

I doubt Chevy would poke VW too hard if at all. There is too much material for VW to turn around and poke back with.

[oldshurst442]

I suppose you are right...

 

Im just quite peeved at this...I want blood!

I want somebody to poke at VW...I dont care who it might be!

 

Top Gear had the right idea...

 

Die Volkswagen Die!

 

 

And no...not in German for THE Volkswagen THE

 

I REALLY mean DIE Volkswagen DIE!!!

 

In GERMAN...courtesy of Google Translate:

STERBEN Volkswagen STERBEN

Edited September 20, 2015 by oldshurst442

[loki]

from my understanding, using def does nothing to HP. it does add weight and complexity though.

-this is my limited knowledge i have through my work related learning.

you can either use DEF, or use EGR.... DEF is to keep the maintenance schedule about the same, while EGR can drastically reduce the life of the internals, at least talking about large medium speeds and medium high speeds - loco engines.

 

I would love to see Mazda's skyactive D in comparison, since it is supposed to meet all emissione with just the catalytic converter and DPF.

[Drew Dowdell]

I thought they were having a lot of trouble with reliability and emissions on the Skyactive-D and that is why it isn't here yet. 

[William Maley]

I thought they were having a lot of trouble with reliability and emissions on the Skyactive-D and that is why it isn't here yet. 

 

It was emissions and getting better performance out of the engine. 

Although I'm wondering if Mazda has given up on it since we haven't heard anything since December.

[loki]

 

I thought they were having a lot of trouble with reliability and emissions on the Skyactive-D and that is why it isn't here yet. 

 

It was emissions and getting better performance out of the engine. 

Although I'm wondering if Mazda has given up on it since we haven't heard anything since December.

 

Drew, i did hear something like that.... oil issues?

 

William, probably something like that. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1096944_mazda-diesel-still-on-tap-but-performance-must-be-suitable-exec-says

but only stating about the performance, but that does relate to emissions.

[oldshurst442]

I see you burnt valve LS7...

 

You see...I see a small trace of where you have been last...continue your childish ways...downvote like a moron...

[ccap41]

I see you burnt valve LS7...

 

You see...I see a small trace of where you have been last...continue your childish ways...downvote like a moron...

He's only doing it because he knows it gets under your skin. Ignore that crap.

[ccap41]

I actually have a friend with a '13 or '14 Jetta TDI(6 spd) that I'll have to ask some questions to. We don't have emissions testing where I live though so he might not have any answers when it comes to this stuff. Once the warranty was up he was going to pull all of the emissions stuff anyway(but what'd the point if it isn't doing anting anyway? right?? lol)

[SoCalCTS]

The government should recall all these cars and crush them all.

[Guest wings4life]

I see you burnt valve LS7...

 

You see...I see a small trace of where you have been last...continue your childish ways...downvote like a moron...

 

 

LOL

 

I love the pathos, olds.  It is deep and aplenty.

Keep it going.

[regfootball]

this is a ridiculous mess, but like i said, when your governments become so tyrannical that most good willing type folk feel like they need to cheat just to survive, then this is what you get.

 

I really have a hard time getting on VW about this.  Like i said its time for the nations to back off and stop tightening the screws for awhile with mpg, emissions and safety stuff.

 

Analogy, tax code and taxes so tyrannical; why do so many people try to cheat on those.

[regfootball]

http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-technology/gm-eyed-us-inception-whisper-diesel

 

 

DETROIT – When the second-generation Chevrolet Cruze turbodiesel comes to market in the U.S. in 2017, the engine nicknamed “whisper diesel” will have at least one distinct advantage over its predecessor: American input.

“Our requirements here (in the U.S.) pushed it a lot,” says Mike Siegrist, assistant chief engineer, Chevy Cruze turbodiesel. “The fact that we are going to market this engine here in a Chevy Cruze helped to make it as quiet as it is.”

General Motors’ all-new 1.6L turbodiesel earned plaudits from the European motoring press shortly after it began rolling out last year in Opel products such as the Mokka small CUV. German journalists call it the “flüster diesel,” or whisper diesel, for its uncharacteristically muted noise and vibration qualities.

[oldshurst442]

this is a ridiculous mess, but like i said, when your governments become so tyrannical that most good willing type folk feel like they need to cheat just to survive, then this is what you get.

 

I really have a hard time getting on VW about this.  Like i said its time for the nations to back off and stop tightening the screws for awhile with mpg, emissions and safety stuff.

 

Analogy, tax code and taxes so tyrannical; why do so many people try to cheat on those.

That is really a flawed way of thinking...

 

So tyrannical?

 

Because YOU dont agree with tight environmental policies...in which since the industrial revolution...has spawned many a company to POISON the planet...

 

A business has the OBLIGATION to be moral, to be honest, to be just, to respect the environment it does business in...

 

Over the last 100 years or so...of crappy environmental business practices, these strict laws have come to be...

 

 

Chinese polluted river...

 

And there are many more examples that I could give you in how industry HAS to be regulated STRICTLY with yes...DRACONIAN LAWS!!!

[El Kabong]

The laws exist for a reason. Or perhaps reasons. Some of those reasons are noble, some cynical.

But they exist. You can't put the horse back in tha barn. And even worse in this case, those laws can be met by existing tech. VW didn't even need to reinvent the wheel to make TDI work right. They just needed to not be so stingy.

[smk4565]

VW should have just used the urea system like BMW and Benz.   That is a lot of cars to recall and fix.  Although a lot of owners probably won't even care. 

 

But there are way worse areas of pollution in the world than what the VW diesels have done.  Not that that is an excuse, that was shady, and illegal what they did and they should pay for it and produce cleaner cars.  But look at the Chinese river there, or the rivers in Rio de Janeiro where the olympics are this winter.  The rivers there have dead bodies, fecal mater, toxic waste and disease, and they think they can have swimming there.  There is some seriously bad pollution out there that should be cleaned up.

[oldshurst442]

VW should have just used the urea system like BMW and Benz.   That is a lot of cars to recall and fix.  Although a lot of owners probably won't even care. 

 

But there are way worse areas of pollution in the world than what the VW diesels have done.  Not that that is an excuse, that was shady, and illegal what they did and they should pay for it and produce cleaner cars.  But look at the Chinese river there, or the rivers in Rio de Janeiro where the olympics are this winter.  The rivers there have dead bodies, fecal mater, toxic waste and disease, and they think they can have swimming there.  There is some seriously bad pollution out there that should be cleaned up.

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/2013/11/diesel-lung-cancer-deaths/

 

 

From the link above:

 

An estimated 6 percent of lung cancer deaths in the United States and the United Kingdom – 11,000 deaths per year – may be due to diesel exhaust, according to a new study.

Emission standards for diesel engines have become more stringent in recent years, but their exhaust still plays a significant role in lung cancer deaths among truckers, miners and railroad workers, the authors wrote. In addition, diesel exhaust still poses a major cancer threat for people living in dense cities or near highways, they said.

 

Thanx CCAP for the link over at MT...

 

Take that as how you will...but...pollution is pollution...

 

You have to start somewhere to clean up the planet...

[ccap41]

 

VW should have just used the urea system like BMW and Benz.   That is a lot of cars to recall and fix.  Although a lot of owners probably won't even care. 

 

But there are way worse areas of pollution in the world than what the VW diesels have done.  Not that that is an excuse, that was shady, and illegal what they did and they should pay for it and produce cleaner cars.  But look at the Chinese river there, or the rivers in Rio de Janeiro where the olympics are this winter.  The rivers there have dead bodies, fecal mater, toxic waste and disease, and they think they can have swimming there.  There is some seriously bad pollution out there that should be cleaned up.

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/2013/11/diesel-lung-cancer-deaths/

 

 

From the link above:

 

An estimated 6 percent of lung cancer deaths in the United States and the United Kingdom – 11,000 deaths per year – may be due to diesel exhaust, according to a new study.

Emission standards for diesel engines have become more stringent in recent years, but their exhaust still plays a significant role in lung cancer deaths among truckers, miners and railroad workers, the authors wrote. In addition, diesel exhaust still poses a major cancer threat for people living in dense cities or near highways, they said.

 

Thanx CCAP for the link over at MT...

 

Take that as how you will...but...pollution is pollution...

 

You have to start somewhere to clean up the planet...

 

No probby! I actually meant ot post it here..somewhere.. but it honestly gets kind of confusing with all of the different VW threads started at this point.

 

I thought the study was very good to read about. 6% while a small number(as expected, really)  still adds up. 11,000 deaths per year between the US and UK is quite significant and the reason for the regulations. Yes, diesels are MUCH cleaner than they were in the past.. but there are also A LOT more of them on the roads too.

[regfootball]

when all automakers are seemingly taking means to meet excessive regs, that turns good players into criminals, when instead the constant bombardment of new regs could be eased up.  In VW's case they could have used urea but were the feds simply asking for far too much progress in emissions on diesel motors.......

 

CAFE is a whole nother deal.  CAFE has been far to aggressive, and they need to back off with that.

 

So yes, tyrannical.  If the tyrants wanted to, they could double the regs every year and everyone is just supposed to 'figure it out'?  Technology takes TIME

[Cmicasa the Great]

I doubt Chevy would poke VW too hard if at all. There is too much material for VW to turn around and poke back with.

 

 

 

“Our requirements here (in the U.S.) pushed it a lot,” says Mike Siegrist, assistant chief engineer, Chevy Cruze turbodiesel. “The fact that we are going to market this engine here in a Chevy Cruze helped to make it as quiet as it is.”

 

 

 

 

What I bolded there, if GM lives up to it.. and learned anything from the last two years... they should be fine, offering a NICE, safe, and compliant alternative to the people who would of bought a VW specifically because they, for all intent, cornered the market.

 

 

Chevy marketing would be FOOLS to not get out in front of this and under EVERY advertisement state in BOLD letters, with the Spokesperson/actor repeating as if he's reading off the brochure:

 

 "THIS VEHICLE, The CHEVY CRUZE DIESEL, IS CERTIFIED BY THE EPA, and AN INDEPENDENT TRIBUNAL WHO IS NOT IN ANY WAY ON OUR PAYROLL, A PRIEST, A RABBI, the Dalai Lama, AND MORGAN FREEMAN, AS BEING COMPLIANT WITH THE ENTIRE WORLD'S ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION TESTS "

 

 

Hell.. at this point.. GM should be pushing every division to have a diesel including Buick, Cadillac, and GMC in the Terrain, Canyon and Acadia. The market is now open for a transparent and available diesel maker who makes it clear, without gloating that they are compliant

 

BTW. The "Whisper Diesel" should be plastered across every GM Diesel as if it were an Ecoboost or Hemi label

[Drew Dowdell]

VW should have just used the urea system like BMW and Benz.   That is a lot of cars to recall and fix.  Although a lot of owners probably won't even care. 

 

But there are way worse areas of pollution in the world than what the VW diesels have done.  Not that that is an excuse, that was shady, and illegal what they did and they should pay for it and produce cleaner cars.  But look at the Chinese river there, or the rivers in Rio de Janeiro where the olympics are this winter.  The rivers there have dead bodies, fecal mater, toxic waste and disease, and they think they can have swimming there.  There is some seriously bad pollution out there that should be cleaned up.

 

Apparently even some of VW's Urea equipped cars fail the test.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

I doubt Chevy would poke VW too hard if at all. There is too much material for VW to turn around and poke back with.

 

 

 

“Our requirements here (in the U.S.) pushed it a lot,” says Mike Siegrist, assistant chief engineer, Chevy Cruze turbodiesel. “The fact that we are going to market this engine here in a Chevy Cruze helped to make it as quiet as it is.”

 

 

 

 

What I bolded there, if GM lives up to it.. and learned anything from the last two years... they should be fine, offering a NICE, safe, and compliant alternative to the people who would of bought a VW specifically because they, for all intent, cornered the market.

 

 

Chevy marketing would be FOOLS to not get out in front of this and under EVERY advertisement state in BOLD letters, with the Spokesperson/actor repeating as if he's reading off the brochure:

 

 "THIS VEHICLE, The CHEVY CRUZE DIESEL, IS CERTIFIED BY THE EPA, and AN INDEPENDENT TRIBUNAL WHO IS NOT IN ANY WAY ON OUR PAYROLL, A PRIEST, A RABBI, the Dalai Lama, AND MORGAN FREEMAN, AS BEING COMPLIANT WITH THE ENTIRE WORLD'S ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION TESTS "

 

 

Hell.. at this point.. GM should be pushing every division to have a diesel including Buick, Cadillac, and GMC in the Terrain, Canyon and Acadia. The market is now open for a transparent and available diesel maker who makes it clear, without gloating that they are compliant

 

BTW. The "Whisper Diesel" should be plastered across every GM Diesel as if it were an Ecoboost or Hemi label

 

Yes, they should absolutely trademark Whisper Diesel

[El Kabong]

I doubt Chevy would poke VW too hard if at all. There is too much material for VW to turn around and poke back with.

 

I just laughed out loud, you bastich.

It's good to see you back in the saddle.

 

 

“Our requirements here (in the U.S.) pushed it a lot,” says Mike Siegrist, assistant chief engineer, Chevy Cruze turbodiesel. “The fact that we are going to market this engine here in a Chevy Cruze helped to make it as quiet as it is.”

 

 

 

What I bolded there, if GM lives up to it.. and learned anything from the last two years... they should be fine, offering a NICE, safe, and compliant alternative to the people who would of bought a VW specifically because they, for all intent, cornered the market.

 

 

Chevy marketing would be FOOLS to not get out in front of this and under EVERY advertisement state in BOLD letters, with the Spokesperson/actor repeating as if he's reading off the brochure:

 

 "THIS VEHICLE, The CHEVY CRUZE DIESEL, IS CERTIFIED BY THE EPA, and AN INDEPENDENT TRIBUNAL WHO IS NOT IN ANY WAY ON OUR PAYROLL, A PRIEST, A RABBI, the Dalai Lama, AND MORGAN FREEMAN, AS BEING COMPLIANT WITH THE ENTIRE WORLD'S ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION TESTS "

 

 

Hell.. at this point.. GM should be pushing every division to have a diesel including Buick, Cadillac, and GMC in the Terrain, Canyon and Acadia. The market is now open for a transparent and available diesel maker who makes it clear, without gloating that they are compliant

 

BTW. The "Whisper Diesel" should be plastered across every GM Diesel as if it were an Ecoboost or Hemi label

[balthazar]

Yes, they should absolutely trademark Whisper Diesel

Maybe GM could acronym it : Whisper diesel.

[smk4565]

The problem with the 11,000 deaths thing, is how much of the diesel pollution is from trucks and buses.  I would guess all the semi-trucks, Ford Super Duty Powerstroke diesels, school buses, city buses, delivery vans, etc out there are polluting a heck of a lot more than 500,000 Jettas and Golfs.  I get stuck behind buses that spew way more fumes than any 10 cars combined I'd guess, so where is the push for making city buses electric or natural gas only and outlawing diesel public transportation?  The whole thing is a double standard.

 

That being said, VW blatantly cheated the system and should be fined and punished for what they did.  I do think they'll get made an example of and their diesel sales may never recover, especially since to get the emissions they need it will add a lot of cost to the car and/or take away performance.

 

The problem with recalling these, is I think a lot of owners won't want to fix the car.  The fix is going to be to turn the emission control system on all the time and take away power and make the car feel slower and less fun to drive.  A lot of owners aren't going to want to give away performance and fuel economy just so the car meets emissions.

[balthazar]

^ Saw a 'breaking news' soundbite that says the number of VWs may be 2.8 million.

[Cmicasa the Great]

The problem with the 11,000 deaths thing, is how much of the diesel pollution is from trucks and buses.  I would guess all the semi-trucks, Ford Super Duty Powerstroke diesels, school buses, city buses, delivery vans, etc out there are polluting a heck of a lot more than 500,000 Jettas and Golfs.  I get stuck behind buses that spew way more fumes than any 10 cars combined I'd guess, so where is the push for making city buses electric or natural gas only and outlawing diesel public transportation?  The whole thing is a double standard.

 

That being said, VW blatantly cheated the system and should be fined and punished for what they did.  I do think they'll get made an example of and their diesel sales may never recover, especially since to get the emissions they need it will add a lot of cost to the car and/or take away performance.

 

The problem with recalling these, is I think a lot of owners won't want to fix the car.  The fix is going to be to turn the emission control system on all the time and take away power and make the car feel slower and less fun to drive.  A lot of owners aren't going to want to give away performance and fuel economy just so the car meets emissions.

 

 

 

Looks like those BIllions U kept yammering on about Audi investing might be put on a weeee bit of hold. 

 

U kno what Smk.. go to your room.. and don't come out till your told. That German engineering U always hold so high, is as I have predicted for a life time it seems.. as being nothing but "Smoke and Mirrors.. NOX"  

 

 Literally how a person feels after following a VW Diesel for too long >>> 

[Cmicasa the Great]

Did VW fail to improve the fuel economy of every diesel vehicle they sell?

 

NO... they did a great job improving the Fuel Economy and riding the wave of being HELD HIGH for their engineering might in doing so. Where things went wrong was when they stole a page from their Original Backer's playbook.. deciding that the best way to conserve fuel was by mass, quiet killings... on the down-low.. of possibly 23,500 fuel consumers. Again... Americans swoop in to reveal and save the day, 70 years, 5 Months, and 15 days after American soldiers found the original camps.

 

 

That cartoon literally agrees with me.. as the Nazis said the EXACT same thing. "We were only obeying orders."

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

I doubt Chevy would poke VW too hard if at all. There is too much material for VW to turn around and poke back with.

 

 

“Our requirements here (in the U.S.) pushed it a lot,” says Mike Siegrist, assistant chief engineer, Chevy Cruze turbodiesel. “The fact that we are going to market this engine here in a Chevy Cruze helped to make it as quiet as it is.”

 

 

 

What I bolded there, if GM lives up to it.. and learned anything from the last two years... they should be fine, offering a NICE, safe, and compliant alternative to the people who would of bought a VW specifically because they, for all intent, cornered the market.

 

 

Chevy marketing would be FOOLS to not get out in front of this and under EVERY advertisement state in BOLD letters, with the Spokesperson/actor repeating as if he's reading off the brochure:

 

 "THIS VEHICLE, The CHEVY CRUZE DIESEL, IS CERTIFIED BY THE EPA, and AN INDEPENDENT TRIBUNAL WHO IS NOT IN ANY WAY ON OUR PAYROLL, A PRIEST, A RABBI, the Dalai Lama, AND MORGAN FREEMAN, AS BEING COMPLIANT WITH THE ENTIRE WORLD'S ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION TESTS "

 

 

Hell.. at this point.. GM should be pushing every division to have a diesel including Buick, Cadillac, and GMC in the Terrain, Canyon and Acadia. The market is now open for a transparent and available diesel maker who makes it clear, without gloating that they are compliant

 

BTW. The "Whisper Diesel" should be plastered across every GM Diesel as if it were an Ecoboost or Hemi label

 

 

 

I just laughed out loud, you bastich.

It's good to see you back in the saddle.

 

 

 

 

I'm always lingering.. but U kno where I am if U need me. MiatsoCi is on a short leash, but GMIer's love to reach out close enough for this wolf to still sink his teeth deep in their hands. 

[El Kabong]

Apparently, the EPA has decided to stop stealing pages from NHTSA's playbook and actually start doing their jobs:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/wont-get-fooled-again-epa-says-it-will-change-up-its-emissions-testing/

[ccap41]

Good for them.

I guess they can afford to add procedures when you're ready to thrown out a ~$18,000,000,000 fine. Lol

[hyperv6]

Well this is a very complex issue. In Some ways you want to hate them, Some ways you almost have to smile at how they did it and then you have to wonder that how many more things are automakers getting desperate about.

The truth is the government wants to legislate fossil fuel cars out but we are still not to the point with electrics that you could live a life not planed around charging cycles. No not even the Tesla before some Musk zealot chines in.

To take a chance like this VW has to be very pressed here. That is not unexcused but just an observation.

In one way I have to almost smile as this was nearly a Smokey Yunick like trick. I loved Smokey and how he fought the system but you still have to pay the price when caught.

As for the 11,000 deaths. I can see it contributing to some deaths of people with already or weakened respiratory but to say that it has killed people directly you would almost have to live above a Diesel parking deck with a vent to your apartment. Few people are exposed to the kind of environment that would completely kill them here.

As long as we let people put things in their mouth that do directly lead to death then how do we prosecute this?

Now this is the area I am not fond of here. VW took money from the EPA for Clean Air from these cars to a tune of $51 Million. They also got $21 million in cash for clunker trades for these cars. To be that was taking money from the government under falsification. That is what really sends people to jail. The rest is a fine but steal money from the government. That is how they got Capone.

I have seen car companies do much worse than this but little is said or it was on a much smaller scale. Hell The original Ford Mustang used a gas tank for a trunk floor. How many died from that and you can't say that was a good idea? Today there are retro fit takes for collectors who are concerned with this.

Heck Even VW has had worse Idea's like "Hey lets build a car for Hitler". That while in a long term panned out was not a thing PR departments like to hold up. They really like to push the Porsche connection but not Adolph so much.

At first I though this would just be a big fine, some firing's and a bunch of civil suits that net lawyers a lot of money and customers a discounted oil change. But with the way more nad more keep popping up I suspect this could really get ugly with the government money being taken under false pretenses.

As for all the people on the web crying for new engines and buy backs these reports tend to bring out the stupid in people. I expect that the cars will get a computer flash that will put it in test mode all the time. Odds are based on what I heard the MPG may slip a little and the Torque my drop a little I do not expect much more than that.

VW will really not know the damage till they begin to handle this. If they come clean and take care of the cars they will pass through this a little weathered but fine. They have a solid fan base that will stick with them.

The one thing I do like is I have not heard one GM ignition story since. It appears the Media has moved on.

Now this is what I do not like. The media goes after every Automaker who appears at the top. While it is fair to report honest stories where they have failed too often I find that not all the facts are presented. I have pondered this here too. At this point I trust VW at what they said they have done more so than the Media. I know in the GM deal so much of the details of the crashes were left out and it swayed public opinion much more than it should as so many people that do not watch the market never new all the facts.

I just wish the EPA, the President and the automakers would work all together much better to bring better results and realistic expectations. Right now we have an administration that wants to executive order out so many things that have yet to find a replacement for.

I find it funny that they want more MPG but yet make it even more difficult to sell a Diesel. Yet they turn around and have buses here running with 5 people on them daily all over town putting out more emissions than how many more cars?

It is time they work a trust and reasoning together that will advance thing much better. Right now you have a jet flying limo riding politicians making rules on things they have no clue about just for vote not the common good. I ponder if they had taken the time to build a trusting working relationship would VW had done what they done.

A starving man will risk arrest to steal a loaf of bread. I will not say he should have stolen it but I can understand why he may have.

You need to step back and take this one all in.

I do worry this will only make it more difficult for GM to sell a Diesel outside trucks in America. GM already was not trusted with car Diesels and now this has damaged the trust of Diesels in general. Also it will only get more difficult to build these.