2016 Cadillac CT6 "Order & Reference Guide; Official Weights Published

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

 

http://www.gmfleetorderguide.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2016&addOptions=true&regionID=1&divisionID=5&vehicleID=18703&section=specs&pagenum=2&butID=9

 

 

 

 

2.0T Base RWD: 3,647 lbs.
2.0T Level 1 RWD: 3,683 lbs.
3.6L Level 1 AWD: 3,925 lbs.
3.6L Level 2 AWD: 3,961 lbs.
3.6L Level 3 AWD: 4,040 lbs.
3.0TT Level 2 AWD: 4,085 lbs.
3.0TT Level 3 AWD: 4,165 lbs.
3.6L Platinum AWD: 4,261 lbs.
3.0TT Platinum AWD: 4,385 lbs.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Cmicasa the Great

[El Kabong]

I know it won't be a big seller, but the curb weight for that base model is just insane.

Also, what's up with the TT drivetrain weighing so much more than the 3.6? I guess updated transmissions, turbos, and intercoolers all add up.

Edited August 29, 2015 by El Kabong

[ocnblu]

It's a nice car, I just hope they can get the waves out of the bodywork.  The F-150 is wave city.

[Cmicasa the Great]

I know it won't be a big seller, but the curb weight for that base model is just insane.

Also, what's up with the TT drivetrain weighing so much more than the 3.6? I guess updated transmissions, turbos, and intercoolers all add up.

3.6L Level 3 move up to 3.0TT Level 2 is 45lbs... the 3.6L Level 2 to 3.0TT Level 2 is 124lbs. . I'm thinking the intercoolers and possibly a different type of exhaust system. 

 

Platinum model is automatically STANDARD Active Chassis Package, includes Magnetic Ride Control, (QP1) 20" all-season tires, (RQA) 20" x 8.5" ultra-bright machined aluminum multi-spoke wheels with Manoogian Silver pockets and (NYS) active rear steering

Also Quad Zone Climate Control employs a secondary full-HVAC system which incorporates an ionizing air purification system.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Cmicasa the Great

[ccap41]

I know it won't be a big seller, but the curb weight for that base model is just insane.

Also, what's up with the TT drivetrain weighing so much more than the 3.6? I guess updated transmissions, turbos, and intercoolers all add up.

Agreed. That base weight(which will never really sell because there are always options added) is fantastic. I need to see how big this is in person to really get a grasp of how big to how light it is though.

My guess is the same you said for the twin turbo motor. They have to add quite a bit of materials and OEM materials for things like that aren't usually the lightest because they're made to last. I'm excited to read/hear about both new 3.0tt setups from Detroit.

[cp-the-nerd]

I still don't get why AWD is standard above the base model. It's clearly adding a solid 200 lbs. The 3.0T RWD would be an outstanding driver's car, like a 1-size bigger CTS Vsport.

[regfootball]

the 2.0t rwd i would enjoy a lot, just sucks that i live in a winter state that makes it impractical to own rwd cars as a primary vehicle.  But 3700 pounds and with the size it is, the 2.0 will move it nicely and i bet it handles great.

 

1 year after intro there will be a base or level 1 2.0 CT6 rotting on the showroom floor because everyone will buy the v6, and then it will be nicely discounted.

 

I guess I won't have won the lottery by then anyways.

[Cmicasa the Great]

I still don't get why AWD is standard above the base model. It's clearly adding a solid 200 lbs. The 3.0T RWD would be an outstanding driver's car, like a 1-size bigger CTS Vsport.

 

 

Most likely there is gonna be a Chevy or a Buick getting the Platform without it standard by 2018. I also think Cadillac's intent.. was to bring to the table a complete system without really charging for it to one up most of the competition 'sides Audi. It should be noted that the AWD system being showcased in the CT6 is  Sport mode = 20/80 front/rear Tour= 40/60 Snow mode= 50/50

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Nearly 4400 lbs is porky, but honestly, who cares in a loaded up car like the Platinum level.  Everything you add, adds weight.  Ask anyone who has stripped a car to lose weight.  Bigger brakes and wheels all around alone add plenty of poundage.  

 

I hope Cadillac prices this thing wisely, considering their recent blunders.

[smk4565]

Not surprised at all by the final weights.  I always said the TT V6 would be over 4,000 lbs, and with the options it is over 4,300 lbs.  Getting awfully close to the bigger, V8 S-class in weight.  And 4,300 lbs is about what a 6-cylinder 7-series weighs.  So this huge weight advantage isn't really there when you compare similar models.    The base model is low weight, but it has no options or tech and a 4-banger, and no one will buy it anyway.

Edited August 30, 2015 by smk4565

[surreal1272]

 

 

 

http://www.gmfleetorderguide.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2016&addOptions=true&regionID=1&divisionID=5&vehicleID=18703&section=specs&pagenum=2&butID=9

 

 

 

 

2.0T Base RWD: 3,647 lbs.

2.0T Level 1 RWD: 3,683 lbs.

3.6L Level 1 AWD: 3,925 lbs.

3.6L Level 2 AWD: 3,961 lbs.

3.6L Level 3 AWD: 4,040 lbs.

3.0TT Level 2 AWD: 4,085 lbs.

3.0TT Level 3 AWD: 4,165 lbs.

3.6L Platinum AWD: 4,261 lbs.

3.0TT Platinum AWD: 4,385 lbs.

Damn, that looks sharp in black!

[surreal1272]

Nearly 4400 lbs is porky, but honestly, who cares in a loaded up car like the Platinum level.  Everything you add, adds weight.  Ask anyone who has stripped a car to lose weight.  Bigger brakes and wheels all around alone add plenty of poundage.  

 

I hope Cadillac prices this thing wisely, considering their recent blunders.

The only car that was woefully mis-priced was the ELR. Also, the weight is less than the industry average for this class of car. Not sure where one even gets the notion that it is "porky".

Not surprised at all by the final weights.  I always said the TT V6 would be over 4,000 lbs, and with the options it is over 4,300 lbs.  Getting awfully close to the bigger, V8 S-class in weight.  And 4,300 lbs is about what a 6-cylinder 7-series weighs.  So this huge weight advantage isn't really there when you compare similar models.    The base model is low weight, but it has no options or tech and a 4-banger, and no one will buy it anyway.

Then actually compare those "similar" models because it is less than the competition. 

Edited September 1, 2015 by surreal1272

[cp-the-nerd]

Not surprised at all by the final weights.  I always said the TT V6 would be over 4,000 lbs, and with the options it is over 4,300 lbs.  Getting awfully close to the bigger, V8 S-class in weight.  And 4,300 lbs is about what a 6-cylinder 7-series weighs.  So this huge weight advantage isn't really there when you compare similar models.    The base model is low weight, but it has no options or tech and a 4-banger, and no one will buy it anyway.

 

A RWD S550 weighs 4600 lbs. C&D tested an S550 4matic coupe that weighed 4760 lbs. The A7 is the hatchback version of the midsized A6. If you measure up to the more appropriate A8, the base model weighs 4460 lbs. The V8 powered A8 with 420 hp weighs over 4600 lbs compared to the CT6 3.0T with similar power and 4300 lbs.

 

So no, you're wrong.

[El Kabong]

Excellence of execution always gets some folks' backs up.

Bottom line: this car is gonna scare the competition, right out of the box. No need to wait for Gen 2 or Gen 3 before it gets serious, no need for caveats.

GM is on the warpath, and they are not letting up so the conpetition can catch a breath.

[surreal1272]

 

Not surprised at all by the final weights.  I always said the TT V6 would be over 4,000 lbs, and with the options it is over 4,300 lbs.  Getting awfully close to the bigger, V8 S-class in weight.  And 4,300 lbs is about what a 6-cylinder 7-series weighs.  So this huge weight advantage isn't really there when you compare similar models.    The base model is low weight, but it has no options or tech and a 4-banger, and no one will buy it anyway.

 

A RWD S550 weighs 4600 lbs. C&D tested an S550 4matic coupe that weighed 4760 lbs. The A7 is the hatchback version of the midsized A6. If you measure up to the more appropriate A8, the base model weighs 4460 lbs. The V8 powered A8 with 420 hp weighs over 4600 lbs compared to the CT6 3.0T with similar power and 4300 lbs.

 

So no, you're wrong.

 

He's not even close.

[smk4565]

4,150 lbs for a long wheelbase Jaguar XJ with a 470 hp supercharged V8. And they didn't quite dethrone the S-class did they.

[surreal1272]

4,150 lbs for a long wheelbase Jaguar XJ with a 470 hp supercharged V8. And they didn't quite dethrone the S-class did they.

Doesn't have to since it does not compete with the S Class in the first place. That's for the future CT8. Not sure what you're getting about that.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Not surprised at all by the final weights.  I always said the TT V6 would be over 4,000 lbs, and with the options it is over 4,300 lbs.  Getting awfully close to the bigger, V8 S-class in weight.  And 4,300 lbs is about what a 6-cylinder 7-series weighs.  So this huge weight advantage isn't really there when you compare similar models.    The base model is low weight, but it has no options or tech and a 4-banger, and no one will buy it anyway.

 

 

 

Um at what point is 4385 "awfully close" to a 4785 lbs S550? That's a 400lb difference

[El Kabong]

One is American pounds, the other is European ones

[smk4565]

An S400 all wheel drive with a 3 liter TT V6 which is sold elsewhere around the world is 4,189 lbs to 4,398 lbs. Depending on wheelbase length and options. That is fairly close to the CT6 weight. But the Jaguar and Audi have weighed less than the S-class for years and it did nothing for them.

I think maybe the CT6 will line up better with the Maybach E-class, currently in testing.

[ccap41]

 

Not surprised at all by the final weights.  I always said the TT V6 would be over 4,000 lbs, and with the options it is over 4,300 lbs.  Getting awfully close to the bigger, V8 S-class in weight.  And 4,300 lbs is about what a 6-cylinder 7-series weighs.  So this huge weight advantage isn't really there when you compare similar models.    The base model is low weight, but it has no options or tech and a 4-banger, and no one will buy it anyway.

 

A RWD S550 weighs 4600 lbs. C&D tested an S550 4matic coupe that weighed 4760 lbs. The A7 is the hatchback version of the midsized A6. If you measure up to the more appropriate A8, the base model weighs 4460 lbs. The V8 powered A8 with 420 hp weighs over 4600 lbs compared to the CT6 3.0T with similar power and 4300 lbs.

 

So no, you're wrong.

 

This isn't supposed to be an A8/S Class/7 Series competitor though, according to Cadillac. This is sligtly smaller along of the lines of the A7/CLS/6 Series.. right?

[ccap41]

Motor Trend did a 2013 S7(AWD)/6 Series Gran Coupe xDrive/CLS550 4Matic comparison test and they weighed the following...

 

S7: 4435lbs

6 Series Gran Coupe xDrive: 4603lbs

CLS550 4Matic: 4318lbs

 

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1304_audi_s7_bmw_650i_gran_coupe_xdrive_mercedes_benz_cls550_4matic/viewall.html

 

Knowing how comparison tests always involve basically loaded up test cars I have to believe those would be compared to the top of the line CT6 as well :3.0TT Platinum AWD: 4,385 lbs.

Edited September 2, 2015 by ccap41

[cp-the-nerd]

 

 

Not surprised at all by the final weights.  I always said the TT V6 would be over 4,000 lbs, and with the options it is over 4,300 lbs.  Getting awfully close to the bigger, V8 S-class in weight.  And 4,300 lbs is about what a 6-cylinder 7-series weighs.  So this huge weight advantage isn't really there when you compare similar models.    The base model is low weight, but it has no options or tech and a 4-banger, and no one will buy it anyway.

 

A RWD S550 weighs 4600 lbs. C&D tested an S550 4matic coupe that weighed 4760 lbs. The A7 is the hatchback version of the midsized A6. If you measure up to the more appropriate A8, the base model weighs 4460 lbs. The V8 powered A8 with 420 hp weighs over 4600 lbs compared to the CT6 3.0T with similar power and 4300 lbs.

 

So no, you're wrong.

 

This isn't supposed to be an A8/S Class/7 Series competitor though, according to Cadillac. This is sligtly smaller along of the lines of the A7/CLS/6 Series.. right?

 

 

Dimensionally, the CT6 is the size of the standard wheel base A8 and 7 series, which they don't sell in the US. I assume that's a bit larger than the A7/CLS/6 Series GC. Even so, we're still looking at near-lowest weight in this reduced-size competitive set. I'm foggy on a lot of things Cadillac was targetting with the CT6 at this point because I was praying for the Elmiraj/Ciel and got the crying CTS face.

[surreal1272]

An S400 all wheel drive with a 3 liter TT V6 which is sold elsewhere around the world is 4,189 lbs to 4,398 lbs. Depending on wheelbase length and options. That is fairly close to the CT6 weight. But the Jaguar and Audi have weighed less than the S-class for years and it did nothing for them.

I think maybe the CT6 will line up better with the Maybach E-class, currently in testing.

We are clearly talking about cars sold here. As such, the S class is way heavier than the CT6, which (again) it will not compete with. A base model S550 weighs in at 4630 lbs.

[cp-the-nerd]

It looks like active rear steering may be responsible for the 200 lb weight jump over non-Platinum trims. Without that, the weight is extremely low.

[smk4565]

The S-class has a V8 and V12, so obviously it is going to be heavier than a V6 car.  And really a lot of these so called high end sedans aren't competing directly against the S-class.  Jaguar, Audi and BMW all sell mostly 6-cylinder flagships, their top end competes with the S-class low end.    And the S-class outsold the 7-series, LS460, XJ, and A8 combined last month.

 

The CT6 is 204 inches long, a Lexus LS460 is 200 inches long, and 4,233 lbs, so I'd say that is probably the CT6's closest competitor.  Maybe Jaguar XJ, is they try to push the CT6 as more of a sport sedan.  The CT6 is too big to compete with a CLS or 6-series, the CTS is bigger than a CLS, the CLS has the same chassis and wheelbase as an E-class.  The 6-series gran coupe is just stupid, a 4 door version of a 5-series coupe that costs more than a 7-series is pointless.  I think with the new 7-series, no one will be buying the 6-series gran coupe.

[balthazar]

The CT6 is too big to compete with a CLS or 6-series, the CTS is bigger than a CLS, the CLS has the same chassis and wheelbase as an E-class.

T–t–t–they're 1 inch apart in overall length.

 

"Too big to compete"…. ?!?!?!?

[ccap41]

So what I'm getting from all of this is they built another friggin tweener class????

~3-5 inches shorter than the big guys and ~3-5inches larger than the cls/a7/6 gran coupe

Why?

[El Kabong]

If you consider the Lexus LS or the Jag XJ "tweeners" then yes, this is a tweener chassis. In reality it's right there size-wise. The only difference being that Benz and Bimmer no longer offer regular-wheelbase variants of their big cars over here.

[G. David Felt]

The S-class has a V8 and V12, so obviously it is going to be heavier than a V6 car.  And really a lot of these so called high end sedans aren't competing directly against the S-class.  Jaguar, Audi and BMW all sell mostly 6-cylinder flagships, their top end competes with the S-class low end.    And the S-class outsold the 7-series, LS460, XJ, and A8 combined last month.

 

The CT6 is 204 inches long, a Lexus LS460 is 200 inches long, and 4,233 lbs, so I'd say that is probably the CT6's closest competitor.  Maybe Jaguar XJ, is they try to push the CT6 as more of a sport sedan.  The CT6 is too big to compete with a CLS or 6-series, the CTS is bigger than a CLS, the CLS has the same chassis and wheelbase as an E-class.  The 6-series gran coupe is just stupid, a 4 door version of a 5-series coupe that costs more than a 7-series is pointless.  I think with the new 7-series, no one will be buying the 6-series gran coupe.

Most people could care less about the engine size other than true performance people and people with little person syndrome.

 

I am going to call it here that the days of V8 and V12 are over and limited to the next 3-5 years in limited releases. Electric engines and turbo / supercharged engines are the future in 4 & 6 cylinder size along with hybrids.

[ccap41]

If you consider the Lexus LS or the Jag XJ "tweeners" then yes, this is a tweener chassis. In reality it's right there size-wise. The only difference being that Benz and Bimmer no longer offer regular-wheelbase variants of their big cars over here.

That is true, I forget that we no longer get the "regular" 7 Series and S Class.

[smk4565]

Mercedes CLS length: 194.5 inches

Cadillac CT6 length: 204 inches

S-class sedan length: 207 inches

I think when this project was approved they wanted the Omega car to be an S-class competitor, but then they realised half way through that they don't have the engines or technology to do it, so they said it was not an S-class competitor and called it CT6. An unnamed Cadillac exec even said in 2014 that the S-class was a lot better than they thought it would be.

Edited September 3, 2015 by smk4565

[ccap41]

So what I'm getting from all of this is they built another friggin tweener class????

~3-5 inches shorter than the big guys and ~3-5inches larger than the cls/a7/6 gran coupe

Why?

 

Okay, upon further review.. (I was on my phone last night and remembering lengths of like 6-8 cars and remembering the order I obviously just confused myself) I see it is right in the ballpark of the S Class, A8, 7 Series,XJ in overall body length. 

[surreal1272]

Mercedes CLS length: 194.5 inches

Cadillac CT6 length: 204 inches

S-class sedan length: 207 inches

I think when this project was approved they wanted the Omega car to be an S-class competitor, but then they realised half way through that they don't have the engines or technology to do it, so they said it was not an S-class competitor and called it CT6. An unnamed Cadillac exec even said in 2014 that the S-class was a lot better than they thought it would be.

That's a fine theory. Regardless, the CT6 is NOT an S class competitor. 

[smk4565]

That's a fine theory. Regardless, the CT6 is NOT an S class competitor. 

 

 

Well of course not, the S-class is the best car in the world.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

That's a fine theory. Regardless, the CT6 is NOT an S class competitor. 

 

 

Well of course not, the S-class is the best car in the world.

 

 

 

I wish for once, someone would actually explain to WHY they make this claim automatically. Yes it has some nice tech and great appointments, but the reality is that all U are getting is what U pay for. At $100K, it doesn't do anything really better than a vehicle costing $10-15K less

[surreal1272]

 

That's a fine theory. Regardless, the CT6 is NOT an S class competitor. 

 

 

Well of course not, the S-class is the best car in the world.

 

Again, unrelated to what I just said.

[smk4565]

Because the S-class pioneered crash crumple zones, was the first car with ABS, first with airbags, first to have satellite navigation, first to have standard stability control, first to use double pane side glass, first with all LED lighting, etc. It has been the technological pioneer for the automotive industry for nearly 50 years.

Body styles and engine choices give S-class the ability to appeal to many types of buyers globally which is why it has been the large luxury car sales leader. They have sedan, coupe, convertible, AMG and Maybach versions and diesel and gas hybrids, diesel V6 and gas V6, V8, and V12. None of the other guys offer that variety.

[G. David Felt]

Because the S-class pioneered crash crumple zones, was the first car with ABS, first with airbags, first to have satellite navigation, first to have standard stability control, first to use double pane side glass, first with all LED lighting, etc. It has been the technological pioneer for the automotive industry for nearly 50 years.

Body styles and engine choices give S-class the ability to appeal to many types of buyers globally which is why it has been the large luxury car sales leader. They have sedan, coupe, convertible, AMG and Maybach versions and diesel and gas hybrids, diesel V6 and gas V6, V8, and V12. None of the other guys offer that variety.

They only got to this in the last 15 years or so, before then they were NOT the world leader and many of the Pioneered technology you state was already tested out by GM or other auto brands. MB has mostly up till 2000 followed, not Led the world.

[balthazar]

Because the S-class pioneered crash crumple zones, was the first car with ABS, first with airbags, first to have satellite navigation, first to have standard stability control, first to use double pane side glass, first with all LED lighting, etc. It has been the technological pioneer for the automotive industry for nearly 50 years.

Mercedes couldn't even offer interchangeable parts unless it was for Cadillac. General Motors offered ABS & air bags in 1970/1972, when did daimler?

 

Body styles and engine choices give S-class

What a hoot! Daimler has only offered the s-class in ONE body style for 44 years; what "variety"?? Where's the convert, where's the wagon, and the coupe JUST came out (too little, too late)! Try NO variety of body styles!

[ccap41]

And the S Class still has more variety than the competition.. And the "previous gen" S Class coupe was the CL Class. They actually do have a convertible too. http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2017-mercedes-benz-s550-mercedes-amg-s63-cabriolet-photos-and-info-news

 

None of them make wagons in this class of car..rightfully so, imo.

 

The competition "only" has sedans. There isn't a coupe or 'vert 7 Series, XJ, A8, or CT#.

[balthazar]

Just saying, the upcoming convert was just announced days ago, the coupe is only months old ('CL" isn't an 'S').

For 2 generations of U.S. buyers, the s-class is a 1 body style only model.

[Guest Rick Ewing]

Mercedes CLS length: 194.5 inches

Cadillac CT6 length: 204 inches

S-class sedan length: 207 inches

I think when this project was approved they wanted the Omega car to be an S-class competitor, but then they realised half way through that they don't have the engines or technology to do it, so they said it was not an S-class competitor and called it CT6. An unnamed Cadillac exec even said in 2014 that the S-class was a lot better than they thought it would be.

 

This has been a long time Cadillac problem in the last 15 years.  To use a hockey analogy, you want to "don't skate to where the puck is...skate to where the puck is going to be".  Underestimating the competition seems to continually be a problem for Cadillac, hopefully something De Nyschenn is fixing.

 

For example, the XLR came to market with a retractable roof that was already obsolete by the time it debuted.  Then they decided that cobranding the dash with Bvlgari was a good idea and lastly, they stole the HVAC controls from the lowly CTS.

 

The 1st gen CTS was a tweener in terms of size but the 2nd gen model was within an inch of the target BMW 5 series.  Then the next gen 5 series got introduced a year later which was larger, making the 2nd gen CTS a tweeter, again.  The 3rd gen CTS is a better car for the class but still isn't in the upper third for car interiors.  It's nice but again, they need to skate to where the puck is going...

 

The ATS was designed to compete with a car that BMW used to make.  That's ok for handling but the class leaders have split that segment into two different sizes, making the ATS a tweener.  Curiously, the Chinese market has a long wheelbase ATS that could solve some of this problem but it's not available here and I think Cadillac might think it may cannabalize CTS sales.

[ccap41]

I see what you mean but in the CL days they were still the only manufacturer with a vehicle in that class.

[smk4565]

There was an s-class convertible in the 60s, and an s-class coupe in the 70s and 80s. They have offered the Pullman limos for decades as well. And in the 70s the 450sel 6.9 liter was pretty much the first of the muscle luxury cars. The S-class has always determined where the luxury segment is going, it leads the way, the others follow.

[balthazar]

Yes; s-class convert in the '60s, almost FIFTY years ago. Just like I said. Pullman / 600 cars weren't "s-classes'.

 

'70s S-class, unfortunately for your point, wasn't a luxury car, it was just priced like one. It wasn't until the '90s that it began to measure up to the 'luxury bar'.

 

Reportedly, Mercedes bought a factory Pontiac Daytona car in the early '60s -one that intact today would be worth nearly a million- to tear down the engine for the 6.9L development. Tho Pontiac's 6.9L had an IBC & right about 475 HP (it was rated at 390-410), MB's version 10 years later had OHCs and a staggering 285 HP. With 4200 lbs, a  3-spd auto & 2.65 gears, it certainly wasn't much in the way of 'muscular'. A 15-yr older Chrysler was just as quick- how come that's not also a 'muscle car'? I guess it was, and was just overlooked here.

[oldshurst442]

You mean Plymouth...Plymouth Daytona. But I CERTAINLY SEE where you are coming from....regarding SMK...

 

Freudian slip...as you must be working on your 389...

 

I wanted to go into a spiel regarding his eralier comments about M-B and ABS brakes and all that jazz....but it aint worth my time...

The only thing I will say...is that SMK shoudnt try to argue who made bigger contributions to automotive tech because he will find out that GM wins that argument...not by a landslide....but with an earthquake shattering, 10.0 on the Richter scale, California in the Pacific,  landslide...

 

 

Let me remind him...that the highway barriers that protect his a$$ from falling unto the other side or the actual plastic test dummies, all generations... that help conduct all those crash tests... are of GM investments in safety....ABS brakes and airbags...were tested upon the same time as M-B and Volvo...safety seat belts...at the same time with Volvo...

And the usual automatic transmission and automatic car starter....Im tired of saying the same things over and over again...its cliche at this point in time...automatic transmissions and auto starters....

 

You want modern times?

Radar in the nose of a car to detect things in front of you during low visibility...

On Star...

Yeah...satellite communication and diagnostics in the car with you using a bloody phone...and now with smart phones...it has gotten a lot easier...

 

Looks like I did waste my time with him...

[balthazar]

You mean Plymouth...Plymouth Daytona. But I CERTAINLY SEE where you are coming from....regarding SMK...

Well, YOU mean Dodge Charger Daytona, the model.

I meant the '63 Pontiac LeMans Super Duty car that raced at Daytona (among other race courses). This car, #50, was a real monster :

 

 

Lapping Ferrari's…

[oldshurst442]

 

You mean Plymouth...Plymouth Daytona. But I CERTAINLY SEE where you are coming from....regarding SMK...

Well, YOU mean Dodge Charger Daytona, the model.

I meant the '63 Pontiac LeMans Super Duty car that raced at Daytona (among other race courses). This car, #50, was a real monster :

 

 

Lapping Ferrari's…

 

OK then...Im glad I set you straight!!!

 

Edited September 5, 2015 by oldshurst442