Trim Levels, Pricing, Configurator For '16 Camaro Revealed!

[El Kabong]

Check it out at:

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2015/aug/0821-camaro.html

[El Kabong]

Less than 27 grand for the 2.0 Turbo. Good.

37 grand for the SS1 sounds expensive at first. But the stuff that used to be part of the optional (and nearly always purchased) RS package has been rolled into the SS as standard equipment. Only the fours and sixes now allow for a proper RS trim.

And I can't lie: I'd like to see orange come back. I want another orange one.

[ccap41]

Yeah, ouchy town for an SS now..

It kind of sounds like Ford's crappy packaging techniques where they force you to get all sorts of options in an expensive package in order to get(in this case) the V8.

[El Kabong]

To a point. But the main differences are that GM is happy to give you more (and most folks bellied up for the bling anyhow) whereas Ford refuses to on the V6.

And let's be honest: eight-speed automatics, direct-injected V8s, and Cadillac platforms probably bump the price some. But when your immediate competition offers none of those any price differences become theoretical.

Edited August 21, 2015 by El Kabong

[ccap41]

To a point. But the main differences are that GM is happy to give you more (and most folks bellied up for the bling anyhow) whereas Ford refuses to on the V6.

And let's be honest: eight-speed automatics, direct-injected V8s, and Cadillac platforms probably bump the price some. But when your immediate competition offers none of those any price differences become theoretical.

No no no not that kind of packaging. I mean if you want a V8 you're stuck spending an extra 4100 over a mustang GT and getting extra features/tech/whatnot with no real choice of a stripped down Camaro SS.

 

You think agerage Joe wanting a muscle car knows or cares about Cadillac bones under that? A large majority of drivers could drive ANYTHING brand spankin new and say it rides better than anything they've ever driven. So why would Joe spend an extra $4100 on the Camaro? Both are 12 second cars.. Both can pull 0.9g+ or whatever, as if the average driver can push either of these cars to the limit). I just don't see $4100 better.. $1000..$2000..yes..$2500..that's a decent gap. but $4100. That's significant to a comparison.

[El Kabong]

I can assure you that anyone looking to get either of these cars in V8 form will be getting them loaded. That means a lot less boxes ticked on the Camaro order sheet than the Ford's, but I doubt the prices will wind up as different as reported, in the real world at least.

And while most folks won't outwardly brag about the Alpha platform and whatnot, the extra 20hp, lighter weight, and extra gear ratios in the auto will pay dividends. Put it his way: MT didnt always give the current Mustang the nod over the ZETA Camaro. I have no reason to doubt that the ALPHA version is just gonna roll.

Edited August 21, 2015 by El Kabong

[ccap41]

You're saying everybody buys loaded cars? C'mon man. You know that isn't true.

 

I'm not talking about the abilities of the car itself.. I know it will be a very very good pony car.

 

My point is the price of entry for a V8 is outrageous now, for the Camaro. I thought the Mustang was expensive. Add $4100 before you can step into a Camaro.

 

These used to be cars that EverydayJoe could afford. Pushing 38k isn't that car anymore.

[cp-the-nerd]

I'm looking forward to the V6 performance tests, because it will continue to change the perception of non-V8 performance. I'm thinking 5.2 sec 0-60 and 13.8 1/4 mile for the manual, and 5.0/13.6 for the 8-speed auto.

 

It might be sticker shock that the V8 starts at $37k, but consider the performance level. It'll basically be on par with a C6 coupe. The V6 makes 335 hp and will be faster than most people know what to do with, it does what V8s did 10 years ago.

[surreal1272]

You're saying everybody buys loaded cars? C'mon man. You know that isn't true.

 

I'm not talking about the abilities of the car itself.. I know it will be a very very good pony car.

 

My point is the price of entry for a V8 is outrageous now, for the Camaro. I thought the Mustang was expensive. Add $4100 before you can step into a Camaro.

 

These used to be cars that EverydayJoe could afford. Pushing 38k isn't that car anymore.

Why do you act like this is a big surprise? All cars are way too pricey these days. While it is a gamble on GM's part to price them like this, it appears that they are going to upsell it on the fact that it has more standard equipment than the Mustang. We will see if the gamble pays off.

[cp-the-nerd]

Camaro 1LT $26,695.00
Camaro 2LT $30,795.00
Camaro 1SS $37,295.00
Camaro 2SS $42,295.00

LGX 3.6L V6, DI, VVT $1,495.00

Dual Mode Exhaust System $895.00

Magnetic Ride Control $1,695.00

8 Speed Automatic Transmission w/ Remote Start & Paddle Shift $1,495.00

 

RS Pkg (LT models only) $1,950.00

 

The Camaro I'd buy would be a 2LT V6 RS for $34k.

[El Kabong]

You're saying everybody buys loaded cars? C'mon man. You know that isn't true.

 

I'm not talking about the abilities of the car itself.. I know it will be a very very good pony car.

 

My point is the price of entry for a V8 is outrageous now, for the Camaro. I thought the Mustang was expensive. Add $4100 before you can step into a Camaro.

 

These used to be cars that EverydayJoe could afford. Pushing 38k isn't that car anymore.

This goes back to what we were saying in a our thread though: are you a performance-oriented guy or are you a guy who must have a V8?

Because lemme tell you: when you can get a RWD sports coupe with 270-ish hp for 27 large, you are living in an age of miracles and wonders (Paul Simon REPRESENT!). That used to be an F-body Z-28. With a solid axle.

Yes, I'd love to see a Silverado-engined Alpha for low thirties. But it probably ain't gonna happen. And maybe it doesn't need to.

[ccap41]

 

You're saying everybody buys loaded cars? C'mon man. You know that isn't true.

 

I'm not talking about the abilities of the car itself.. I know it will be a very very good pony car.

 

My point is the price of entry for a V8 is outrageous now, for the Camaro. I thought the Mustang was expensive. Add $4100 before you can step into a Camaro.

 

These used to be cars that EverydayJoe could afford. Pushing 38k isn't that car anymore.

Why do you act like this is a big surprise? All cars are way too pricey these days. While it is a gamble on GM's part to price them like this, it appears that they are going to upsell it on the fact that it has more standard equipment than the Mustang. We will see if the gamble pays off.

 

Why am I surprised that the new Camaro with a V8 is $4100 more than a V8 mustang?

 

I pointed out that "I thought the Mustang was expensive".

 

That was my point in the standard equipment though. They're doing kindof like what Ford does in their packaging where if you want(in this case a V8) you are forced to get other things with it. Random, made up, example. If I wanted HID headlights on my mustang. The odds are very good that it will be in a package that also adds X Y Z and it will end up costing a couple/few grand. That is what this is like. I think it is crappy. You want a V8, well there isn't a stripped down V8 anymore for Camaro..

I'm looking forward to the V6 performance tests, because it will continue to change the perception of non-V8 performance. I'm thinking 5.2 sec 0-60 and 13.8 1/4 mile for the manual, and 5.0/13.6 for the 8-speed auto.

 

It might be sticker shock that the V8 starts at $37k, but consider the performance level. It'll basically be on par with a C6 coupe. The V6 makes 335 hp and will be faster than most people know what to do with, it does what V8s did 10 years ago.

I'm very intrigued in the V6 version actually. I still would never buy one but it intrigues me nontheless.  I wish the 2.3 EcoBoost was a little more powerful so play with this.

[ccap41]

 

You're saying everybody buys loaded cars? C'mon man. You know that isn't true.

 

I'm not talking about the abilities of the car itself.. I know it will be a very very good pony car.

 

My point is the price of entry for a V8 is outrageous now, for the Camaro. I thought the Mustang was expensive. Add $4100 before you can step into a Camaro.

 

These used to be cars that EverydayJoe could afford. Pushing 38k isn't that car anymore.

This goes back to what we were saying in a our thread though: are you a performance-oriented guy or are you a guy who must have a V8?

Because lemme tell you: when you can get a RWD sports coupe with 270-ish hp for 27 large, you are living in an age of miracles and wonders (Paul Simon REPRESENT!). That used to be an F-body Z-28. With a solid axle.

Yes, I'd love to see a Silverado-engined Alpha for low thirties. But it probably ain't gonna happen. And maybe it doesn't need to.

 

Or my first '04 Mustang GT(260/290)  .. lol

 

I do see what you mean.. but I still don't really agree with the pricing. I guess as a Mustang guy I really don't care. But as a human it is hard to see a logical reason to buy it over the mustang. I say logical meaning practicallity. It may be better in every way but it is THAT much better to warrant the price differnce. That is my point. a couple grand..OKAY, $4100..that's significant.

[surreal1272]

 

 

You're saying everybody buys loaded cars? C'mon man. You know that isn't true.

 

I'm not talking about the abilities of the car itself.. I know it will be a very very good pony car.

 

My point is the price of entry for a V8 is outrageous now, for the Camaro. I thought the Mustang was expensive. Add $4100 before you can step into a Camaro.

 

These used to be cars that EverydayJoe could afford. Pushing 38k isn't that car anymore.

Why do you act like this is a big surprise? All cars are way too pricey these days. While it is a gamble on GM's part to price them like this, it appears that they are going to upsell it on the fact that it has more standard equipment than the Mustang. We will see if the gamble pays off.

 

Why am I surprised that the new Camaro with a V8 is $4100 more than a V8 mustang?

 

I pointed out that "I thought the Mustang was expensive".

 

That was my point in the standard equipment though. They're doing kindof like what Ford does in their packaging where if you want(in this case a V8) you are forced to get other things with it. Random, made up, example. If I wanted HID headlights on my mustang. The odds are very good that it will be in a package that also adds X Y Z and it will end up costing a couple/few grand. That is what this is like. I think it is crappy. You want a V8, well there isn't a stripped down V8 anymore for Camaro..

I'm looking forward to the V6 performance tests, because it will continue to change the perception of non-V8 performance. I'm thinking 5.2 sec 0-60 and 13.8 1/4 mile for the manual, and 5.0/13.6 for the 8-speed auto.

 

It might be sticker shock that the V8 starts at $37k, but consider the performance level. It'll basically be on par with a C6 coupe. The V6 makes 335 hp and will be faster than most people know what to do with, it does what V8s did 10 years ago.

I'm very intrigued in the V6 version actually. I still would never buy one but it intrigues me nontheless.  I wish the 2.3 EcoBoost was a little more powerful so play with this.

 

Fair enough but I do think you are over dramatizing it a bit. The way all the makes package their cars has been questionable to me for a long time though. 

[El Kabong]

Ccap: in terms of utility, you're right. It probably ain't worth it. And maybe I'm showing my age a bit by saying things the way I do.

But I've had fast cars that were unrefined already. I've lived through all the jokes about Detroit building 'em cheap and nasty. And since '08, I've taken GM at their word when they say the restructuring was all about making more conpetitive product. For me, cars like the Camaro are living proof that GM was actually serious about that pledge. And I get that that might mean a bit more pain at the dealership.

But one day around mid-2017 I want to be able to pull up next to anything short of a Nissan GTR and know that if I do this right, I've got this guy. Whether the road is straight, or twisty, or bumpy or smooth.

And when the really hi-po Camaro bows, I fully expect to have that option.

Edited August 21, 2015 by El Kabong

[ccap41]

You're saying everybody buys loaded cars? C'mon man. You know that isn't true.

 

I'm not talking about the abilities of the car itself.. I know it will be a very very good pony car.

 

My point is the price of entry for a V8 is outrageous now, for the Camaro. I thought the Mustang was expensive. Add $4100 before you can step into a Camaro.

 

These used to be cars that EverydayJoe could afford. Pushing 38k isn't that car anymore.

Why do you act like this is a big surprise? All cars are way too pricey these days. While it is a gamble on GM's part to price them like this, it appears that they are going to upsell it on the fact that it has more standard equipment than the Mustang. We will see if the gamble pays off.

Why am I surprised that the new Camaro with a V8 is $4100 more than a V8 mustang?

 

I pointed out that "I thought the Mustang was expensive".

 

That was my point in the standard equipment though. They're doing kindof like what Ford does in their packaging where if you want(in this case a V8) you are forced to get other things with it. Random, made up, example. If I wanted HID headlights on my mustang. The odds are very good that it will be in a package that also adds X Y Z and it will end up costing a couple/few grand. That is what this is like. I think it is crappy. You want a V8, well there isn't a stripped down V8 anymore for Camaro..

I'm looking forward to the V6 performance tests, because it will continue to change the perception of non-V8 performance. I'm thinking 5.2 sec 0-60 and 13.8 1/4 mile for the manual, and 5.0/13.6 for the 8-speed auto.

 

It might be sticker shock that the V8 starts at $37k, but consider the performance level. It'll basically be on par with a C6 coupe. The V6 makes 335 hp and will be faster than most people know what to do with, it does what V8s did 10 years ago.

I'm very intrigued in the V6 version actually. I still would never buy one but it intrigues me nontheless.  I wish the 2.3 EcoBoost was a little more powerful so play with this.

Fair enough but I do think you are over dramatizing it a bit. The way all the makes package their cars has been questionable to me for a long time though.

I'll definitely admit I have not looked at packaging for much other than vehicles I've been interested in. By if they're all similar to how Ford does it..I don't like that. I think that's one of my favorite things that MB and BMW do if you can basically "a la carte" everything. You can package too but it seems like waaaay less of a hassle to do it with them.

[surreal1272]

A la carte can be better but they can nickle and dime you to death if you're not careful. We're talking about Benz and BMW after all.

[ocnblu]

Very nice dammit.  Now my weekend will be shot.

[oldshurst442]

I'm looking forward to the V6 performance tests, because it will continue to change the perception of non-V8 performance. I'm thinking 5.2 sec 0-60 and 13.8 1/4 mile for the manual, and 5.0/13.6 for the 8-speed auto.

 

It might be sticker shock that the V8 starts at $37k, but consider the performance level. It'll basically be on par with a C6 coupe. The V6 makes 335 hp and will be faster than most people know what to do with, it does what V8s did 10 years ago.

Yup...and looking at the 2.0T, it makes 275 horsepower, the same amount _{(but less than the 2.3 ecoboost from Ford)}  the LT1 Camaro made in 1993...and more torque...

I was 20 years old in 1993 and I thought that was an un-Godly amount of power...

 

Yeah...Ive said it before, the 335 horse 3.6 liter V6 Camaro would be good enough for me...but if I had a choice...like El K mentioned...a Silverado 5.3 liter _{(327 cubic inches  for nostalgic purposes!!! )} 355 horse/383 lb-ft torque would be my dream...no need for more power than that...and V8...

 

But my wet dream would be a 6.2 liter, screamin' chicken laden, black and gold...never mind...

Edited August 22, 2015 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

I think the pricing is pretty good. As people want more and more performance, price goes up.  $40,000 for a V8 is pretty expected, anything with a V8 is pricey because they want to sell the cars on the plus side of the CAFE equation.  The old school Camaros that were $22,000 also had 200 hp and a junk interior.   I think the pricing on this Camaro is pretty good value, a 335 hp coupe for $30k, that is a good deal.   You could spend $30k on a 4-banger Malibu and the interior on the Mablibu isn't any nicer than the Camaro.

[cp-the-nerd]

 

I'm looking forward to the V6 performance tests, because it will continue to change the perception of non-V8 performance. I'm thinking 5.2 sec 0-60 and 13.8 1/4 mile for the manual, and 5.0/13.6 for the 8-speed auto.

 

It might be sticker shock that the V8 starts at $37k, but consider the performance level. It'll basically be on par with a C6 coupe. The V6 makes 335 hp and will be faster than most people know what to do with, it does what V8s did 10 years ago.

Yup...and looking at the 2.0T, it makes 275 horsepower, the same amount _{(but less than the 2.3 ecoboost from Ford)}  the LT1 Camaro made in 1993...and more torque...

I was 20 years old in 1993 and I thought that was an un-Godly amount of power...

 

Yeah...Ive said it before, the 335 horse 3.6 liter V6 Camaro would be good enough for me...but if I had a choice...like El K mentioned...a Silverado 5.3 liter _{(327 cubic inches  for nostalgic purposes!!! )} 355 horse/383 lb-ft torque would be my dream...no need for more power than that...and V8...

 

But my wet dream would be a 6.2 liter, screamin' chicken laden, black and gold...never mind...

 

 

I've been saying for over a year that I wish GM would build a Camaro 327!! Man I'd be all over that. Perfectly usable power, V8 rumble, pretty good fuel economy, and yeah that sweet heritage nametag...

[hyperv6]

Anyone here ever buy a base SS? Hands? Anyone here know anyone who ever bought a base SS? Hands?? Just as I thought. GM just made a package that encompasses pretty much what the average buyer gets anyways and cut out the base model that you seldom see and never buy.

Besides for a couple thousand more than a 4 cylinder FWD Malibu you get a decent package with RWD, Corvette Engine and Magnetic Suspension.

Also get used to this as the V8 cars will be more and more limited and more and more expensive as time goes on. This is the only way companies will be able to sell them and limit their volumes as 2025 nears.

The hand writing is already on the wall as Ford is going to sell a 400K super car with a TT V6? Word came out this week the Hemi will vanish in 2019 to be replaced with Alfa Turbo V6 and 4 cylinders. GM may be the only one in the group with a V8 going forward in a few years and I bet they will charge for it.

Time to stop the whining and accept the fact that for once GM finally finished a Camaro that will be the best performing and best refined Camaro ever and possibly the best refined Chevy ever. You want a better car it will add to the price but in the end you will get not only a better car but a better value in the end.

We have yet to see all about this car yet as the track time was limited and only on the V6 so far. The embargo will be off soon and you will be surprised just what you get for that price.

GM did this with the Cruze where they added things to the standard package that most people got anyways. They also added a better interior than the others at the time it was released. Lutz had to fight the old GM culture on this that wanted to gut the car. Well the Cruze turn into a very successful car, it made a lot of money and really helped Chevys rep at a time the ignition deal could have provided a death blow.

The way I see this Chevy pretty much eliminated what is equal to the 2.5 ATS model. You know the one they sell just to make a cheap offering price in the ads but so very few ever buy. Most SS sold will be in the $40K range just as it already has been and it will carry feature the old car never had standard let alone even optional like diff coolers and magnetic suspension.

Most that will complain were never going to buy one anyways.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Personally I have never purchased a base model, with even my old 2011 LLT being a fully loaded RS package that in 2010, stickered about $4500 less than Chevy is gonna offer the SS for in 2016. I see absolutely no reason why they should price a 455 hp and 455 lb.-ft. of torque borderline super car, coming almost loaded to the teeth, for less than or even equal to the price that a Mustang with less HP, amenities, and refinement. 

 

I really think GM should allow the option of deleting a few things, but standing fast on the MSRP. The Camaro SS is not a car for people looking for a bargain. Its a sports coupe that is born from Cadillac and Corvette. No way in the world that should be value priced. Adding a delete option for a few things would not be a bad thing though. A delete of the summer tires, Brembo brakes, and coolers for the differential, oil, and transmission fluid would shave the difference in price down to about $2000 since to get the same amenities from the GT one has to buy the Performance package for $2500. Chevy is going straight to what the Mustang GT Premium is offering in price. That car is priced at $37,200. In the SS, it comes with different Brembo brakes, run-flats, new diff, transmission, and engine oil cooling system. Not to mention a health power and torque advantage over the Ford.

It seems like Chevy decided to price their cars for what they were worth. Cheap SOBs be damned. Buy the Ford, get beat at the track

BTW. Another factor in this may come from two things. GM still has to comply with CAFE, and limiting the number of SSs might be an issue with that, not to mention the fact that the Camaro is possibly more expensive to make now that it is coming to the U.S. for production at Lansing Grand River

[Cmicasa the Great]

2016 MODEL YEAR VEHICLE PRICE 

EFFECTIVE WITH START OF 2016 MODEL YEAR PRODUCTION 

 

Base Model Prices

 

¨ 1AG37 Camaro 1LT $25,700.00 + DFC $995.00 

¨ 1AH37 Camaro 2LT $29,800.00 + DFC $995.00 

¨ 1AJ37 Camaro 1SS $36,300.00 + DFC $995.00 

¨ 1AK37 Camaro 2SS $41,300.00 + DFC $995.00 

 

Option Packages

Option Code Description List 

 

¨ WRS RS Package $1,950.00 

¨ Y3W Technology Package $800.00 

¨ ZN2 2LT Convenience & Light Pack $2,800.00 

 

Additional Options

Option Code Description List 

 

Cooling Package 

¨ Y4Q Heavy-Duty Cooling and Brake Package with WRS or RPO RTH (20" wheel) $485.00 

¨ Y4Q Heavy-Duty Cooling and Brake Package without WRS or RPO RTH (20" wheel) $1,285.00 

 

Engine: 

¨ LGX 3.6L V6, DI, VVT $1,495.00 

 

Exhaust Systems: 

¨ NPP Dual Mode Exhaust System $895.00 

 

Heater: 

K05 Engine Block Heater $75.00 

 

Interior Trim 

¨ BRD Ceramic White Interior Accent Trim Package $500.00 

¨ BRJ Adrenaline Red Interior Accent Trim Package $500.00 

License Plate Bracket: 

VK3 Front License Plate Bracket $15.00 

 

Paint: 

G7D Bright Yellow $395.00 

¨ G7E Garnet Red Tintcoat $395.00 

¨ GB8 Mosaic Black Metallic $395.00

 

Radio and Navigation Equipment: 

¨ IO6 Chevrolet MyLink Radio with Navigation $495.00 

 

Stripe Packages: 

¨ BO3 White Pearl Rally Stripes $470.00 

¨ BO4 Black Metallic Rally Stripes $470.00 

¨ C2U Silver Rally Stripes $470.00

¨ C3O Black Rally Stripes $470.00

¨ DUU Black Center Stripe $470.00

¨ DUV Silver Center Stripe $470.00 

¨ DW7 White Pearl Center Stripe $470.00 

¨ DW8 Black Metallic Center Stripe $470.00 

 

Sun Roof: 

CF5 Power Sunroof $900.00

 

Suspension: 

¨ F55 Magnetic Ride Control $1,695.00

 

Transmission: 

¨ MX0 8 Speed Automatic Transmission w/ Remote Start (BTV) & Paddle Shift $1,495.00

 

Wheels: 

¨ 56R 20" 5-split Spoke Premium Gray Painted Machined Face Aluminum $200.00 

¨ 56V 20" Rear 5-Spoke Low Gloss Black Aluminum $200.00 

¨ 56W 20" 5-Spilt Spoke Bright Silver Painted Aluminum $200.00 

¨ RTH 20" 5-Spoke Low Gloss Black Aluminum $800.00 

¨ RTJ 20" 5-spilt Spoke Bright Silver Painted Aluminum $100.00

 

 

 

Credit for Mustang info Mustang6G

[El Kabong]

Solid info man. Good stuff!

[Suaviloquent]

I think the pricing is very fair for what the car is. Chevy is finally getting the love it deserves. But I just can't stomach the styling of the last gen and this generation Camaro. 

 

It's giving a whole lot of reasons to not consider other sports cars and coupes as well. I'd say you could avoid getting a Corvette with a fully loaded 2SS and have a good chunk of change and miss nothing performance wise while gaining a back seat.

 

The Camaro is very high technology oriented. You think of Transformers or Alpha. 

 

The Mustang is all about the heritage, what the Pony Car represents. While I appreciate the exuberance of the new Camaro; I just don't want any goodies other than the performance parts and V8.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Suaviloquent

[regfootball]

Once the reviews roll in, I think the bitching about pricing will go away.

I'm most interested in seeing what a nicely optioned turbo with stick would go for. I'd want the high contrast interior and a moonroof to take away the claustrophobia. A nice option to some crappy FRS.

I'd consider the v6 but I hope gm's six gets smoother one of these days.

Side note. By the time Camaro six sales are in full swing maybe there will be big discounts on ATS coupes.

[Cmicasa the Great]

People need to go out and test drive a CTSvSport. I kno stayed U're thinking.. Larger, more luxury.. But in truth the power and driving dynamics of that car absolutely will mystify you. After that... imagine its smaller, even more sport-tuned but with more power and torque... louder, lighter. What you will have experienced is a Stingray with 2 extra doors and an actual $15,000 price drop.

Just like that... Its worth the price over the comparable and respectable Mustang GT.

[hyperv6]

What we have to consider here is Chevy for the first time and I mean the first time built a Camaro correctly.

They finally got a platform at was intended to be a Camaro from the start and funded it to the point there is no compromises. As Scott Settlemire the past F body manager said they would get money for the suspension and engine but never anything for the inside. He said this is why your window lifts failed.

This car will be the most refined and developed Camaro ever. This one is not compromised by coming from a Chevy II or Holden that was never intended for the Camaro. Or even being short changed in funding for development to complete the car.

The driving dynamic and the added features and materials will play into a car that like the Cruze was just a little more money but delivered much more car for that money.

Chevy has played that cheapest car in the segment for so many years. They were forever advertising the Cavaliers and S10 for $9,999 but where did that get them. The imports that sold for a little more gave better value and at times better products because of the extra money in the vehicle.

Bob Lutz introduced this when he was at GM and it is now a part of the new culture. We will see this in the new Malibu and again in the new Cruze. Also it will play out in the Nox and most other future Chevys.

While being the cheapest may draw attention in the advertising it s the long term satisfaction that sells more cars and a better car will do that and enhance customer loyalty.

Granted the Camaro already has good loyalty but they finally took the lead with the 5 gen car and I expect will only increase things with this car. Lets face it $3k is not going to scare anyone away once they commit to buy a $30K or more car.

The reviews and test drives will be very telling to just how far this car has gone in being just a better car and not just in performance. The Mustang is still a good car but I expect the difference between these two car in refinement will see a greater gap going to the Camaro being the better car overall.

GM and their new culture gets it and we are seeing the results with the new product.

[FAPTurbo]

Two grand more yet two cylinders less than a base Mustang.

 

That is a bit of a gulf for young people who are cross-shopping fairly broadly. We'll see how the reviews stack up. 

[oldshurst442]

Two grand more yet two cylinders less than a base Mustang.

 

That is a bit of a gulf for young people who are cross-shopping fairly broadly. We'll see how the reviews stack up. 

Im confused...

 

2 cylinders less, but more equipment? Could THAT be a selling point?

Or how 'bout this scenario...move up to the "mid-engine" for both vehicles and the roles are reversed...2 cylinders more for the Camaro AND enjoying MORE power...

 

Yeah...we will wait and see how this plays out...

[El Kabong]

Two grand more yet two cylinders less than a base Mustang.

 

That is a bit of a gulf for young people who are cross-shopping fairly broadly. We'll see how the reviews stack up.

Yes yes, stick the 40+ guys with 40-grand+ EB four-bangers that struggle to show their tailgates to a Honda Accord and assault their eardrums with four-banger thrum and teakettle whistle. The rental conpanies kids need the refinement of that V6.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

So the price delta between 1S and Mustang GT is nearly the same as the price delta between a 2S and a GT350.

Interesting.  

[El Kabong]

Yup.

And in both cases the Camaro is the one that offers an available eight-speed and more torque.

Based on those Shelby weights, I'm guessing the Camaro will be lighter as well. But I'll be a good sport and wait for official numbers on that one.

Edited August 24, 2015 by El Kabong

[Cmicasa the Great]

That is the plan. If its one thing I never do is count the Mustang out. Personally I really like the car, but not over a Camaro. Not then and not now. The back end of the fastback is pretty sexy, while the front absolutely leaves me seeing "generic Ford." Its like they phoned in the front fascia. Performance-wise, the GT350 better have done it's homework before it shows up to class (First day for the kids so excuse the pun  ) or its gonna get schooled. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

The performance is mystifying considering the humble beginnings, weight, and age of the vehicle. Hard to believe that we've seeing this car since 2007. I still remember the absolute "WOW!" people let go of, almost in unison, when Bumblebee suddenly became this car on the screen. Best marketing EVER!!! 

 

[hyperv6]

This deal is like an Election. The one car is not going to overwhelm  the other car in a devastating blow. Both camps are like die hard Republicans and Democrats that even if they have the lesser car offered they will still show brand loyalty and buy in most cases.

The middle independent ground is the limited number of new customers to the segment and people who just want the best car period. Add in a number of independent customers for the V6 and new turbo and that is where you get the numbers to take the segment lead or not.

 

As for swaying young people generally they are not buying many of these cars and if they do they either have the income that makes 3K no difference or mom and dad are paying anyways. Few young people can afford a new car  or insurance on these cars let alone most new cars today. So that is not a legitimate consideration. The insurance on a V8 for someone under 25 is just off the charts in a Camaro or Mustang that is new.

The GT 350 is a bargain but it is in the face of everything that made the Shelby what a Shelby was. for many years. It will become what the Z/28 for Ford of the 80's and 90's a mass produced car that really holds no connection to the original.
I had wondered what would happen with the Shelby line now that the old man is gone. This car had none of his input and nothing to do with his company so it will just be a mass production car much like the 5.0 GT we have had for years.

 

This should make the people who own a real Shelby even the new ones made at the Shelby facility very happy as it should help their values.

 

The GT 350 will be a great car and make a lot of money but I really wish they had kept it the GT and let Shelby company make the real Shelby.

 

In the end I expect GM to get back the edge they held for the last few years but it still will be a tight race and in the end we both win with two great cars.

Now over at Chrysler. I really am worried now. The new LX is delayed again and now there is talk on the Chrysler sites that the V8 Hemi will be gone in 2019 replaced with a Turbo 6. It  may be a very powerful engine but how will the public react? Right now with the old school people I think it may really impact sales and they will have to look to new customers to keep in the segment. I just wonder how long till Ford goes to a TTV6 and kills the V8 in the Mustang.

 

Don't say it won't happen as the Ford GT now is going TTV as well as the Raptor. I personally do not look down on this but many others do as they want a V8 and nothing else in this segment.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

This deal is like an Election. The one car is not going to overwhelm  the other car in a devastating blow. Both camps are like die hard Republicans and Democrats that even if they have the lesser car offered they will still show brand loyalty and buy in most cases.

The middle independent ground is the limited number of new customers to the segment and people who just want the best car period. Add in a number of independent customers for the V6 and new turbo and that is where you get the numbers to take the segment lead or not.

 

As for swaying young people generally they are not buying many of these cars and if they do they either have the income that makes 3K no difference or mom and dad are paying anyways. Few young people can afford a new car  or insurance on these cars let alone most new cars today. So that is not a legitimate consideration. The insurance on a V8 for someone under 25 is just off the charts in a Camaro or Mustang that is new.

The GT 350 is a bargain but it is in the face of everything that made the Shelby what a Shelby was. for many years. It will become what the Z/28 for Ford of the 80's and 90's a mass produced car that really holds no connection to the original.

I had wondered what would happen with the Shelby line now that the old man is gone. This car had none of his input and nothing to do with his company so it will just be a mass production car much like the 5.0 GT we have had for years.

 

This should make the people who own a real Shelby even the new ones made at the Shelby facility very happy as it should help their values.

 

The GT 350 will be a great car and make a lot of money but I really wish they had kept it the GT and let Shelby company make the real Shelby.

 

In the end I expect GM to get back the edge they held for the last few years but it still will be a tight race and in the end we both win with two great cars.

Now over at Chrysler. I really am worried now. The new LX is delayed again and now there is talk on the Chrysler sites that the V8 Hemi will be gone in 2019 replaced with a Turbo 6. It  may be a very powerful engine but how will the public react? Right now with the old school people I think it may really impact sales and they will have to look to new customers to keep in the segment. I just wonder how long till Ford goes to a TTV6 and kills the V8 in the Mustang.

 

Don't say it won't happen as the Ford GT now is going TTV as well as the Raptor. I personally do not look down on this but many others do as they want a V8 and nothing else in this segment.

I agree that the Shelby name carries so much legacy for Ford, but honestly, how can Ford offer that level of performance of the GT350 into a base GT price?  They can’t.  And honestly, not everyone…..heck, very few actually want that kind of performance as a daily driver.  Many people just want a competent V8 coupe that fits into their lives and looks good doing it, be it automatic trans or convertible, etc.  Very few people want or can live with the loud exhaust note (as glorious as it sounds) on a daily basis, nor do they want the ride that comes with it as well.  I like the GT for what it is, even with it’s milder performance pack.  Ford can always add a more serious track pack to the few who desire it.  And then you can step into GT350 ®.  And who knows what comes next or what name they attach to it ( I am hearing Mach One will be back), but I do appreciate Ford offering these steps as a CHOICE, even with their silly package bundles.  

[G. David Felt]

Next company to take their pony car, give it a 300 mile range on pure electric with a motor like this.

 

420HP, 560 lbs of torque will win!

 

 

http://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=8&products_id=300&osCsid=rfikd2j0it52odv9jfoo2kfdk4

 

That is my thought and I am sticking to it.

[ccap41]

Anyone here ever buy a base SS? Hands? Anyone here know anyone who ever bought a base SS? Hands?? Just as I thought. GM just made a package that encompasses pretty much what the average buyer gets anyways and cut out the base model that you seldom see and never buy.

Besides for a couple thousand more than a 4 cylinder FWD Malibu you get a decent package with RWD, Corvette Engine and Magnetic Suspension.

 

It isn't about how many of us(small sample size) that buy base SS's and GT's but for those who DO buy them. As auto enthusiasts we tend to spend a little more on our vehicles than most would anyway so using members of an auto forum is quite the biased "results".  Not everybody is going to want to spend te extra 4k for things like leather and all the cool techno doo-dads. The package is cool and awesome that they made but I think they should have offered a lesser trim as well. If it is for CAFE, I understand that more than to give the options that "most" got on the previous model. I think that is kind of a bull$h! reasoning because you could go down the line for every car produced and add the options that "most" buy and completely change the pricing game. Think "most" Chevy Cruzes are bought with an automoatic tansmission? Why offer a manual at all then? "Most" trucks never need/use 4wd, should they all get rid of that too? It's all about the options and giving people options. Saying "most" order this or that isn't justification.

[surreal1272]

Two grand more yet two cylinders less than a base Mustang.

 

That is a bit of a gulf for young people who are cross-shopping fairly broadly. We'll see how the reviews stack up. 

Until they see the rather large absence of options on that V6 Stang.

[ccap41]

 

Two grand more yet two cylinders less than a base Mustang.

 

That is a bit of a gulf for young people who are cross-shopping fairly broadly. We'll see how the reviews stack up. 

Until they see the rather large absence of options on that V6 Stang.

 

The V6 Mustang is the complete opposite end of what I'm complaining about with the 1SS. One doesn't allow you any options(or hardly any) and the other forces options on you. Both frustrating, imo.

[hyperv6]

What you forget is how difficult it is to price a car today to where it will still sell and still make a profit.

Many options are added as standard for many reasons.

Some are added as it is cheaper to offer power windows in all cars vs. having a manual options. Same for tilt wheels. That example came from the F body manager himself in years past.

 

Even on the Gen 5 the question was asked to focus groups of Camaro fans on many things to know what they want and what they would buy. One question was "Is the smell of leather seats important to you?" Yes they asked many detail questions including this one. Why? Because the smell to leather is not natural and it would be an added cost. Some people equate higher quality with the smell while others never even notice. The money they saved on leather scent would be used on other features packaged in to better appeal to the group.

The bottom line on this $3-4K is it was not a decision taken lightly and not with out a lot of research with potential buyers in this segment. People have complained for how many years about cheap interiors and short cuts in many areas. Now today we finally have a car that they will introduce it where it is 99% right. Note no car is 100% right so we reserve that last 1%.

 

The reality is a Spark or Sonic are purchased for economy and price most of the time. Cars like the Camaro are purchased for performance and features. They have taken the time to make a package that will offer great value for the money with most of the features that most people want.

Will some be disappointed sure as you can never please everyone but the package they have will satisfy the vast majority and that is all they need to do.

 

If you veto the car because of $3K in options at this price range you really were not all that serious about the car to start with.

So saying most really does matter as this is not some willy nilly thing they came up with. The research and time taken to look at what customers buy and want was packaged into model packages that will take care of most buyers out there. This is not a cafeteria and packaging is important today.

 

If Ford or someone else wants to address the entry level price segment more power to them but the added value is a win win for GM making more money and customers getting a better package with more value.

 

You should really take the time to look into just what goes into pricing a car and putting packages together. I too thought it was much more simple but it is not.

 

The formula here was used on the Cruze to good effect over the last few years and will be used in cars like the Malibu and other new models.

Also the racers are already addressed with the Body in White as this is the most economical way to build a new car like this today. They make so many changes  even a base model it too much.

 

What would you rather have customers complaining that you are giving them too much or complaining you are not giving them not enough?  Few will complain for the extra options and value.

Edited August 24, 2015 by hyperv6

[hyperv6]

Wings there will be more Mustangs and more power just as there will be at least two or three more powerful Camaro's.

Too much money and notoriety in these variations even in low numbers.

 

The thing is will the Shelby image still hold water now the old man is gone. When Ford did this I the 60's with the name and not the old man it failed. Now on the other hand Ferrari has done well without their old man but at that price point the car had an image of it's own old man or not.

 

I suspect the Shelbys will still sell well new but the collectors may not hold as much interest as time goes on. Kind of like the Air Cooled 911 now vs. the used water cooled models.

[Frisky Dingo]

I've got somewhat mixed feelings about this.

 

I don't think the car is overpriced, but based on what we know so far, I'm having trouble seeing how the 2SS starts at 42K, but still leaves a sunroof, nav, and MRC as cost extras. Where exactly is that 5 grand going besides leather? I would preferably want this car in guise with all the options, but that's a hefty jump. And the 1SS is coming in 5 grand more than the previous car, which also seems to be steep hike. From the looks of it, a similarly equipped Mustang GT even w/ Track Package is going to be a few thousand less than a standard 1SS. That is absolutely going to deter some buyers.

 

From the looks of it, it's going to be terribly hard to run an SS up to 50 grand. That's quite a number for a non-specialty pony car, even with it's inevitable performance. At that kind of pricing, I think I'd have to just buy a GT350 instead. It'll offer superior performance, and hold it's value better. I fell that is an entirely realistic argument. For me personally, I'd go a step further and say for that kind of money, I'd rather have a current gen ZL1, a really clean E92 M3, a base C7 Z51, or even a current SS sedan. I understand that's not a situation where many people would find themselves, but it is for me, entirely. Hell, you can buy a 5th Gen 1LE for less than 30K, and it will probably perform about as well as this new car. So while I'll stop short of saying the car isn't worth it, the price would most likely deter me from buying one. It'd have to be one HELL of a car to change my position. I guess time will tell. Otherwise, this news just made my next car purchase a lot easier.

[G. David Felt]

Crazy stupid pricing like this will kill off the Pony cars for many.

[ccap41]

^ Agreed.

 

And Frisky: I like how you looked at that and I can't agree more. The price hike..is just too much.. I've said it before and I understand 1, 2 grand, even 2500. but 4100 is a big gap.

[hyperv6]

Ok lets get a little reality and truth into this conversation.

#1 the Pony car died a long time ago. Todays cars are fully equipped GT coupes. These are no longer reconfigured economy coupe reconfigured into a performance model at a cheaper rate than a Muscle car that too also does not exist anymore. Note it is not 1969 anymore.

#2 The fact is cars are expensive. The average sale price of a new car is $35,000 and the average price of used cars I just posted at Autoblog was $18,000 now. The fact is $35,000 is just buying you an average car today. For a couple thousand more the SS is a very above average car for the money.   Welcome to 2015.

 

Time to stop living in the past in how we look at these cars for what they are and what they cost. Time to live in the present and Just remember the past as a good memory.

 

It is like how many look back at the 60's. Some folks look back with fond memories but too often they forget some of the details. We today see many of these cars restored to a degree that these cars were never built to. If you spend time with a unrestored original you see things many of us forget like the bad paint and all the things that were lacking back in the day. I just spent time with a 69 GP with only 40,000 miles. It was in great shape but we stood there and looked at all the defects and flaws in the body and paint that were factory. The owner loved driving the car but said how floaty it was and the brakes just were not up to todays standard.

 

To be honest we pay a lot but we are getting cars today that can not compare to anything in the past content and quality wise. The Camaro here in question could take to a track and in street form out run many race cars from the pony era. Lets face it too that V6 here would out run most model Camaros from the 60's also out stopping and turning too.

 

The aspect here we all need to face is cars are expensive and they will remain such. Companies will try to add value with more option and features even in the lower forms of the cars. That is what we are seeing here. Like it or not you want a better car you will have to pay for it.

[oldshurst442]

What really is missing...in 2015...is the original pony car and muscle car formula...

 

Sporty car that most could afford with not that many features...reducing the price necessary to get into one. RWD at that.

 

There is the Toyota/Scion/Subaru Trio.

The Miata.

 

And Im afraid that is it. None of those offer a V8, nor a V6.

The FRS and BRZ are as close to what Falcon based Mustang and Chevy II based Camaro were all about back in the 1960s...

 

Base V6 engines and for the Mustang in 1964...a very anemic V8...

 

We do have the pocket rocket hot hatches...

Those back in the 1980s had the pony car formula...albeit in FWD form...lost it sometime in the 1990s...but since 2010...the hot hatch sporty and affordable formula is back...no...not RWD, but FWD....and keep in mind...today's hot hatches would also embarrass some 1960s muscle cars in the quarter mile...and they turn...and brake...

 

so yeah...I agree with you HyperV6...'tis 2015...and all three "pony cars" from Detroit have grown up...even as far back as 2002...and let us not kid ourselves...a Camaro SS was just a stone throw away in price from a BMW M3...not exactly cheap. And a lot lot cheaper in quality and build at that.

 

this 2016 Camaro...will probably rival the M4 in quality and build...and if not the M3...certainly the 435 Series

Edited August 26, 2015 by oldshurst442

[El Kabong]

I guess I don't see what the fuss is all about. After all, Car and Driver just did a test of a Mustang droptop that cost 42 grand.

And it had an EcoBoost.

Sorry folks, but that's just reality.