..Another Z06..

[ccap41]

"There’s no doubt it’s a world-class machine at speed – and at coming down from it. Some high-performance cars can be squirrely when you stomp on the brakes at triple-digit speeds, but the Z06 stays straight as an arrow, even in mixed conditions. Only in the tightest hairpins does it object to your commands in the slightest, eventually bringing its rear end around and then catching it if you don’t. Despite the massive amount of power on tap, it’s easy to find your confidence in this car, and learn a few things along the way.

That is, until you reach the end of the road. After a few lapping sessions, the engine in mine unceremoniously called it quits. There was oil, some bits and pieces, unpleasant noises. It was not pretty. The cause? Yet to be determined."

 

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2015/07/10/2015-chevrolet-corvette-z06-test-drive/

I don't want to start a pissing match because it's been discussed before.. but because it's been discussed before I thought I'd share this link here that I came across yesterday.

[cp-the-nerd]

The guy who wrote it certainly has a glass-half-full attitude about the engine failure:

 

"But whether it was a due to a manufacturing or design flaw that Chevy needs to address, or was simply an act of protest after being subjected to thousands of miles of unspeakable horrors by uncaring journalists, it raised an important point: Sports cars break, and it ain’t cheap when they do.

 

This is especially true of high-strung ones that spend much of their lives at the track, a no man’s land for warranty and insurance coverage. When something however small goes bad on a pricey import, mortgages can get involved. But with the Z06, you could blow through five or six engines completely and still not spend as much as the upfront cost of the competition. I know, there are residual values to consider and all that, but it’s something to think about."

 

Makes a good point. You could buy a Z06 and several spare engines before reaching the price of the next closest competitor. Whatever the issue was/is, you can be sure GM is investigating with all intents to sort out the issue by the following model year.

[G. David Felt]

Love the ending of the write up with this is what the USA is all about or Die Trying. Sadly we have seen a few Corvettes die trying.

 

But they are still AWESOME!

[Drew Dowdell]

If it was a press car with several thousand miles on it, I'm mostly inclined to believe "unspeakable horrors by uncaring journalists" is the most likely cause.

 

William and I have both seen the insanity that is press events at race tracks.   I am more skilled on the track than the average schmoe, but I am in no way a professional racer.  Most importantly, I know my own limits and usually reach them well before I reach the limits of the car (assuming the car in question is a Z-06 and not a Corolla).

 

The problem, as William can also attest, is that these journalist events often have below average schmoes getting behind the wheel of these high powered cars and puts them on the track (supervised) and on the open street (unsupervised). You have wannabe boy racers who think they are sitting in front of their playstation in their parent's basement instead of sitting behind the wheel of a $100k super car.  They treat the cars as their personal toy with zero regard for the manufacturer's property.  I've nearly been hit, multiple times, by other journalists doing inappropriate things in residential neighborhoods. 

 

If this car was a private car being used on the street, I'd be concerned.  If this were a car being used by a professional driver on a race course, it might not even be newsworthy.  But as it was a press car after thousands of miles of use by insufficiently trained drivers, I pretty much don't care... aside from the loss to GM of the car.

[Cmicasa the Great]

ccap.. its not even the question of a "pissing match.." but I always question the motives of the people who post this BS. 

 

Out of more than  10,000 Z06s produced.. I think the number of engine issues has bee 13.. The statistical data on that means that about .85% of the LT4s that have been produced have had an issue.. That's about 1 in 120 cars. 

 

By comparison..  Audi runs a 3.7% change of engine failure or 1 in ever 27 cars, Toyoyta has a .58% or 1 in 171.. while Benz has a .84% rate of 1 in 120  or right there with the Z06. That is Benz versus a singular specialty car with 650HP in its first year of production.

$h! happens.. here is a Viper with the same issue. Go figure.. no news or hoopla over it. 

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-v/213650-another-motor-catastrophic-failure.html

[cp-the-nerd]

ccap.. its not even the question of a "pissing match.." but I always question the motives of the people who post this BS. 

 

Out of more than  10,000 Z06s produced.. I think the number of engine issues has bee 13.. The statistical data on that means that about .85% of the LT4s that have been produced have had an issue.. That's about 1 in 120 cars. 

 

By comparison..  Audi runs a 3.7% change of engine failure or 1 in ever 27 cars, Toyoyta has a .58% or 1 in 171.. while Benz has a .84% rate of 1 in 120  or right there with the Z06. That is Benz versus a singular specialty car with 650HP in its first year of production.

$h! happens.. here is a Viper with the same issue. Go figure.. no news or hoopla over it. 

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-v/213650-another-motor-catastrophic-failure.html

 

13 out of 10,000 is not .84% (or 1 in 120)... I don't understand the math you used. 13/10,000 is .13% or 1 in 769.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

ccap.. its not even the question of a "pissing match.." but I always question the motives of the people who post this BS. 

 

Out of more than  10,000 Z06s produced.. I think the number of engine issues has bee 13.. The statistical data on that means that about .85% of the LT4s that have been produced have had an issue.. That's about 1 in 120 cars. 

 

By comparison..  Audi runs a 3.7% change of engine failure or 1 in ever 27 cars, Toyoyta has a .58% or 1 in 171.. while Benz has a .84% rate of 1 in 120  or right there with the Z06. That is Benz versus a singular specialty car with 650HP in its first year of production.

$h! happens.. here is a Viper with the same issue. Go figure.. no news or hoopla over it. 

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-v/213650-another-motor-catastrophic-failure.html

 

13 out of 10,000 is not .84% (or 1 in 120)... I don't understand the math you used. 13/10,000 is .13% or 1 in 769.

 

 

Perhaps I am wrong..  I came up with those numbers outside of following the methodology used here http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath498/kmath498.htm

 

 

yanked the other numbers from Autocar

Edited July 14, 2015 by Cmicasa the Great

[ccap41]

ccap.. its not even the question of a "pissing match.." but I always question the motives of the people who post this BS. 

 

Out of more than  10,000 Z06s produced.. I think the number of engine issues has bee 13.. The statistical data on that means that about .85% of the LT4s that have been produced have had an issue.. That's about 1 in 120 cars. 

 

By comparison..  Audi runs a 3.7% change of engine failure or 1 in ever 27 cars, Toyoyta has a .58% or 1 in 171.. while Benz has a .84% rate of 1 in 120  or right there with the Z06. That is Benz versus a singular specialty car with 650HP in its first year of production.

$h! happens.. here is a Viper with the same issue. Go figure.. no news or hoopla over it. 

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-v/213650-another-motor-catastrophic-failure.html

There is no motive, man. If there were a motive I don't think I would have quoted the first paragraph where it was nonstop praise about the incredible performance of the car. Or I would have said something smartass like "you know who" from MT. It's just news.. I thought I'd share because it's been brought up muliple times.

 

Yes, it is first year of production issues but those issues aren't typically issues with engines straight up failing. They are usually stupid electronic things or other little things happening but not usually a 20+k engine failing.

 

Just curious but where are you getting your engine fail % from?

 

Also, I don't care about Vipers..that's why I don't post anything about them. I like Corvettes.

 

EDIT: I see where your numbers came from.. staggered posts..

Edited July 14, 2015 by ccap41

[oldshurst442]

Im just get on the Trans Am band(it)wagon...

 

 

Those Trans Ams are far far less of a hassle(hoff)

 

Besides, Trans Ams  (James)Garner more  POSITIVE attention than Vettes do lately.

 

 

There is a winning "Formula" when it comes to Trans Ams....Corvettes are actually boats, boats sink.

The Formula/Trans Am logo is a Phoenix...Phoenix ALWAYS rise from the ashes...

 

And finally...because at the end of the day...

 

 

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

ccap 

 

Point is that its a dead horse. Honestly if it is a real issue Chevy is working on it, and it has done nothing to deter the majority from buying a Z06. 2016s are shipping now, and if they have the suddenly have no instance of this then I would expect a GM recall on the 2015s by December. 

 

Personally I think it has more to do with people not being able to "out of the box" respect the car... In situations on the track, especially these journalist, like Drew pointed out, 90% of them simply do not have the wherewithal to handle this type of car at the limits they are pushing them. It could, as I've pointed out in the countless MT Forum threads with U in attendance," be that they are abusing the $h! outta these cars by simply not knowing where the rev limits are. For a

 

Z06 Man7:

 

 

 

 

and for my own reference purposes.. 

 

Z51 Man7

 

[ccap41]

 

ccap 

 

Point is that its a dead horse. Honestly if it is a real issue Chevy is working on it, and it has done nothing to deter the majority from buying a Z06. 2016s are shipping now, and if they have the suddenly have no instance of this then I would expect a GM recall on the 2015s by December. 

 

Personally I think it has more to do with people not being able to "out of the box" respect the car... In situations on the track, especially these journalist, like Drew pointed out, 90% of them simply do not have the wherewithal to handle this type of car at the limits they are pushing them. It could, as I've pointed out in the countless MT Forum threads with U in attendance," be that they are abusing the $h! outta these cars by simply not knowing where the rev limits are. For a

 

Z06 Man7:

 

 

 

 

and for my own reference purposes.. 

 

Z51 Man7

 

 

Wow, I love seeing information like that. Gears, ratios, speed in gear.. That's cool stuff to me.

 

So 6th in your Z51 Stingray will "theoretically" get you to 260mph? That's some Overdrive gear if I've ever heard of one.. One reason that thing can get 30mpg highway if you're taking it easy.

 

And, 68mph in first gear.. LOL That's crotch rocket like gearing.. for first gear. But the Z06's stupid power band makes it so every gear can be nice and tall and not worry about having to shift all the time.

[cp-the-nerd]

 

 

ccap.. its not even the question of a "pissing match.." but I always question the motives of the people who post this BS. 

 

Out of more than  10,000 Z06s produced.. I think the number of engine issues has bee 13.. The statistical data on that means that about .85% of the LT4s that have been produced have had an issue.. That's about 1 in 120 cars. 

 

By comparison..  Audi runs a 3.7% change of engine failure or 1 in ever 27 cars, Toyoyta has a .58% or 1 in 171.. while Benz has a .84% rate of 1 in 120  or right there with the Z06. That is Benz versus a singular specialty car with 650HP in its first year of production.

$h! happens.. here is a Viper with the same issue. Go figure.. no news or hoopla over it. 

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-v/213650-another-motor-catastrophic-failure.html

 

13 out of 10,000 is not .84% (or 1 in 120)... I don't understand the math you used. 13/10,000 is .13% or 1 in 769.

 

 

Perhaps I am wrong..  I came up with those numbers outside of following the methodology used here http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath498/kmath498.htm

 

 

yanked the other numbers from Autocar

 

 

I'm not a statistics wizard, but I'm not sure how you found data for all the variables those equations ask for.

 

I just went the simple route: if there are 10,000 Corvette Z06s produced and 13 of them had engine failures, then .13% of LT4s have failed, 1 in 769. Of course, just knowing this was a press model, possibly pre-production, throws off the math too.

[ccap41]

 

 

 

ccap.. its not even the question of a "pissing match.." but I always question the motives of the people who post this BS. 

 

Out of more than  10,000 Z06s produced.. I think the number of engine issues has bee 13.. The statistical data on that means that about .85% of the LT4s that have been produced have had an issue.. That's about 1 in 120 cars. 

 

By comparison..  Audi runs a 3.7% change of engine failure or 1 in ever 27 cars, Toyoyta has a .58% or 1 in 171.. while Benz has a .84% rate of 1 in 120  or right there with the Z06. That is Benz versus a singular specialty car with 650HP in its first year of production.

$h! happens.. here is a Viper with the same issue. Go figure.. no news or hoopla over it. 

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/viper-discussions-gen-v/213650-another-motor-catastrophic-failure.html

 

13 out of 10,000 is not .84% (or 1 in 120)... I don't understand the math you used. 13/10,000 is .13% or 1 in 769.

 

 

Perhaps I am wrong..  I came up with those numbers outside of following the methodology used here http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath498/kmath498.htm

 

 

yanked the other numbers from Autocar

 

 

I'm not a statistics wizard, but I'm not sure how you found data for all the variables those equations ask for.

 

I just went the simple route: if there are 10,000 Corvette Z06s produced and 13 of them had engine failures, then .13% of LT4s have failed, 1 in 769. Of course, just knowing this was a press model, possibly pre-production, throws off the math too.

 

I think what the statistical formula was finding out would have been on a per/day or per/mile or per/X type of thing based on the opening paragraph of that page.

 

"Suppose we're given a batch of 1000 widgets, and each functioning widget has a probability of 0.1 of failing on any given day, regardless of how many days it has already been functioning. This suggests that about 100 widgets are likely to fail on the first day, leaving us with 900 functioning widgets. On the second day we would again expect to lose about 0.1 of our functioning widgets, which represents 90 widgets, leaving us with 810. On the third day we would expect about 81 widgets to fail, and so on. Clearly this is an exponential decay, where each day we lose 0.1 of the remaining functional units. In a situation like this we can say that widgets have a constant failure rate (in this case, 0.1), which results in an exponential failure distribution."

 

A least that is what it sounds like to me. Which leaves almost any number us non-engineers (with no testing data like a Corvette engine engineer would have) inaccurate.

[ccap41]

Hey Casa, I'm also curious where you got 13 failures from?

[El Kabong]

While I would like to see perfect component reliability in this car, Casa and Drew have the right perspective-this is almost certainly no big deal. And again, if it IS, I'm sure we will hear all about it.

[oldshurst442]

While I would like to see perfect component reliability in this car, Casa and Drew have the right perspective-this is almost certainly no big deal. And again, if it IS, I'm sure we will hear all about it.

Im sorry...I think that I have the right perspective on this...Trans Ams All. The. Way.

[El Kabong]

You just want an excuse to wear a bright red shirt and cowboy hat in Verdun

[oldshurst442]

You just want an excuse to wear a bright red shirt and cowboy hat in Verdun

Well...you did invite me a couple months ago to join you in Alberta.  Banf and Jasper.

I need to practice my cowboy wearing ways if Im gonna head out West one day. Calgary  will probably be my preference over Edmonton though, and I heard there are some fine rodeos in Calgary so..

 

West bound and down, loaded up and Trans Amin'

We're gonna do what they say can't be done.

We've got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

I'm West bound, just watch ol' "Bandit" run.

Keep your foot hard on the pedal. Son, never mind them brakes.

Let it all hang out 'cause we got a run to make.

The boys are thirsty in ALBERTA and there's beer in STRATHCONA

And we'll bring it back no matter what it takes...

Edited July 15, 2015 by oldshurst442

[El Kabong]

True dat.

Department of Nitpicking: when viewed from the perspective of lawn chair height the Jag F-Type has a bit too much front overhang.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Hey Casa, I'm also curious where you got 13 failures from?

 

 

Its a rumor of 13 cars. In truth it could be less than that. Either way even if it is 25 cars.. outta 10,000 ??? Why the do U care? Let Chevy deal with it via warranty.. their money and their reputation. Why are U so concerned??? U buying one in a few days or what?

[ccap41]

 

Hey Casa, I'm also curious where you got 13 failures from?

 

 

Its a rumor of 13 cars. In truth it could be less than that. Either way even if it is 25 cars.. outta 10,000 ??? Why the do U care? Let Chevy deal with it via warranty.. their money and their reputation. Why are U so concerned??? U buying one in a few days or what?

 

Eassssy man.. Just curious because I don't think I've even heard as many as 13.

 

And in all fairness.. it could be more as well.. like you said though, 0.25%.

 

And I care because this is an outstanding performance car per dollar(heck, not even per dollar. Just outright badass!). But if there is an issue.. it isn't the bargain it is expected to be. Even if it s covered 100% by warranty(and there is no reason to suspect it wouldn't be) it is still a ridiculous hassle for the owner.

[El Kabong]

I fail to see how a car that has the performance this car has can be considered anything less than a bargain. If you want to talk about warranty hassles ask the Porsche GT3 owners about Stuttgart recalling EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM because they were prone to burning to the ground.

[Frisky Dingo]

As usual with these types of threads, this one is rather humorous.