Ram News: Ram 3500 Heavy Duty Now Boasts 900 Pound-Feet From Its Diesel Engine

[ccap41]

uh, the LT1 is available at any Chevy or GMC dealer in the truck section.   Stand in the middle of the truck lot, throw a tomato, and there is a really good chance you'll hit a truck with an LT1. 

Not to correct you...but... a couple friends and I were at our local GM dealer(one of them wanted to get an idea of new truck prices..he was kindof in sticker shock) and I actually think 90% were either the 5.3 or 4.3.. But I understand what you're saying! lol

[Drew Dowdell]

 

uh, the LT1 is available at any Chevy or GMC dealer in the truck section.   Stand in the middle of the truck lot, throw a tomato, and there is a really good chance you'll hit a truck with an LT1. 

Not to correct you...but... a couple friends and I were at our local GM dealer(one of them wanted to get an idea of new truck prices..he was kindof in sticker shock) and I actually think 90% were either the 5.3 or 4.3.. But I understand what you're saying! lol

 

 

"My" Buick/GMC dealer must move a lot of Denalis.

 

And yes yes.. I know the "truck" LT1 is technically coded an L86, but it is the same engine in a different tune. 

[ccap41]

 

 

uh, the LT1 is available at any Chevy or GMC dealer in the truck section.   Stand in the middle of the truck lot, throw a tomato, and there is a really good chance you'll hit a truck with an LT1. 

Not to correct you...but... a couple friends and I were at our local GM dealer(one of them wanted to get an idea of new truck prices..he was kindof in sticker shock) and I actually think 90% were either the 5.3 or 4.3.. But I understand what you're saying! lol

 

 

"My" Buick/GMC dealer must move a lot of Denalis.

 

And yes yes.. I know the "truck" LT1 is technically coded an L86, but it is the same engine in a different tune. 

 

Yeah there were only a couple Denalis on the lot.. but in all fairness we were looking something for him that was a little more basic so we weren't looking at everything let a lone everything that looked awesome.. but I do always like to look at price tags of the fully loaded ones.. Saw a 62k High Country..jeez. But that dark brown leather interior did look extremely fancy, especially for a truck.

 

Random. But when we were looking the window sticker was kind of confusing actually. On the lower left hand side under "mechanical" a lot of them had the 4.3 listed. BUT on the upper right(outside fo the "box") they had the 5.3 listed.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

 

uh, the LT1 is available at any Chevy or GMC dealer in the truck section.   Stand in the middle of the truck lot, throw a tomato, and there is a really good chance you'll hit a truck with an LT1. 

Not to correct you...but... a couple friends and I were at our local GM dealer(one of them wanted to get an idea of new truck prices..he was kindof in sticker shock) and I actually think 90% were either the 5.3 or 4.3.. But I understand what you're saying! lol

 

 

"My" Buick/GMC dealer must move a lot of Denalis.

 

And yes yes.. I know the "truck" LT1 is technically coded an L86, but it is the same engine in a different tune. 

 

Yeah there were only a couple Denalis on the lot.. but in all fairness we were looking something for him that was a little more basic so we weren't looking at everything let a lone everything that looked awesome.. but I do always like to look at price tags of the fully loaded ones.. Saw a 62k High Country..jeez. But that dark brown leather interior did look extremely fancy, especially for a truck.

 

Random. But when we were looking the window sticker was kind of confusing actually. On the lower left hand side under "mechanical" a lot of them had the 4.3 listed. BUT on the upper right(outside fo the "box") they had the 5.3 listed.

 

 

That's because the 5.3 is an option.

 

That said, if he just needs something basic and doesn't need to tow a heavy trailer, the 4.3 is a fine engine.  It has roughly the same power characteristics of the 5.3 from about 12 years ago.   The instinct when buying a truck is always to go for the biggest baddest engine you can afford, but these new V6es from GM and Ford and Chrysler are plenty good enough for most folks who just want to haul mulch home from Home Depot. 

 

I really like the High Country, but it is very much Chevy copying Ford's King Ranch.  My Mom drives a 2007 King Ranch with that dark brown interior. 

[hyperv6]

Stew keep that dream alive.

I understand a lot more than you give me credit for.  Time is on my side.

Again you never answer any questions. Do you think Sergio will sell 400,000 Alfa's by 2018? Yes or No. This is key to his plan and I am looking for a simple answer.

 

FYI the Camaro tooling and platform were paid for years ago. The like the LX. The new one will be spread over many models as well as the tooling for the engine is spread out as many of the parts are interchangeable with various versions. The trucks along cover the engine cost.

 

Camaro sales are only down now as we have a sixth gen out soon. As for the Charger it never came close to Mustang or Camaro numbers when they are not winding down production. Dodge is lucky to sell over 50K units while the Mustang and Camaro are closer to 100,000 units.

[Stew]

uh, the LT1 is available at any Chevy or GMC dealer in the truck section.   Stand in the middle of the truck lot, throw a tomato, and there is a really good chance you'll hit a truck with an LT1. 

I was talking LT1 to LT1, if i am not mistaken the truck version has different internals to produce more torque at a lower RPM but less HP.  in any case they are VERY low production as they are only available on higher trims.  We can talk about the 5.7 and 6.4, and the Pentastar and how many different vehicles they are available in with the same exact internals if you want lol. 

[Stew]

Stew keep that dream alive.

I understand a lot more than you give me credit for.  Time is on my side.

Again you never answer any questions. Do you think Sergio will sell 400,000 Alfa's by 2018? Yes or No. This is key to his plan and I am looking for a simple answer.

 

FYI the Camaro tooling and platform were paid for years ago. The like the LX. The new one will be spread over many models as well as the tooling for the engine is spread out as many of the parts are interchangeable with various versions. The trucks along cover the engine cost.

 

Camaro sales are only down now as we have a sixth gen out soon. As for the Charger it never came close to Mustang or Camaro numbers when they are not winding down production. Dodge is lucky to sell over 50K units while the Mustang and Camaro are closer to 100,000 units.

I answered your question, read my damn posts........  The Camaro is going on a new platform for the next model year that is relatively new and bares differences from it's more expensive platform mates, that is NOT all paid for.  And see above on the trucks....  And you mean Challenger, right?  FYI original sales targets for the Challenger was 25000-50000 per Chrysler in a Car and Driver interview in 09, they have met and exceeded their targets. It was NEVER meant to sell in Camaro numbers.  If you meant the Charger it has been and still is one of the best selling cars in it's segment.  Impala sales actually keep dropping despite having not only the new Impala but the last gen still selling as the classic strictly to rental agencies.   Again, you have little idea what you are talking about.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

uh, the LT1 is available at any Chevy or GMC dealer in the truck section.   Stand in the middle of the truck lot, throw a tomato, and there is a really good chance you'll hit a truck with an LT1. 

I was talking LT1 to LT1, if i am not mistaken the truck version has different internals to produce more torque at a lower RPM but less HP.  in any case they are VERY low production as they are only available on higher trims.  We can talk about the 5.7 and 6.4, and the Pentastar and how many different vehicles they are available in with the same exact internals if you want lol. 

 

 

Nope, just a slightly different cam and different VVT tuning, same block and everything else.  The L86/LT1 is not low production, 30% of each model sold is a Denali when a Denali model is available.  

[El Kabong]

Stew keep that dream alive.

I understand a lot more than you give me credit for.  Time is on my side.

Again you never answer any questions. Do you think Sergio will sell 400,000 Alfa's by 2018? Yes or No. This is key to his plan and I am looking for a simple answer.

 

FYI the Camaro tooling and platform were paid for years ago. The like the LX. The new one will be spread over many models as well as the tooling for the engine is spread out as many of the parts are interchangeable with various versions. The trucks along cover the engine cost.

 

Camaro sales are only down now as we have a sixth gen out soon. As for the Charger it never came close to Mustang or Camaro numbers when they are not winding down production. Dodge is lucky to sell over 50K units while the Mustang and Camaro are closer to 100,000 units.

*sigh*

...look, I'm aware that using facts to annoy folks can be entertaining, but your ragging on Mopar does get a bit baffling. Lest we forget, this is the outfit that, gaping product holes, wobbly finances and all, just beat Ford in retail sales last month.

Retail. Sales.

So while I still harbour suspicions about Sergio's money skills, I do not think the situation is as bleak as you make it out to be.

[Stew]

 

 

 

 

uh, the LT1 is available at any Chevy or GMC dealer in the truck section.   Stand in the middle of the truck lot, throw a tomato, and there is a really good chance you'll hit a truck with an LT1. 

Not to correct you...but... a couple friends and I were at our local GM dealer(one of them wanted to get an idea of new truck prices..he was kindof in sticker shock) and I actually think 90% were either the 5.3 or 4.3.. But I understand what you're saying! lol

 

 

"My" Buick/GMC dealer must move a lot of Denalis.

 

And yes yes.. I know the "truck" LT1 is technically coded an L86, but it is the same engine in a different tune. 

 

Yeah there were only a couple Denalis on the lot.. but in all fairness we were looking something for him that was a little more basic so we weren't looking at everything let a lone everything that looked awesome.. but I do always like to look at price tags of the fully loaded ones.. Saw a 62k High Country..jeez. But that dark brown leather interior did look extremely fancy, especially for a truck.

 

Random. But when we were looking the window sticker was kind of confusing actually. On the lower left hand side under "mechanical" a lot of them had the 4.3 listed. BUT on the upper right(outside fo the "box") they had the 5.3 listed.

 

 

That's because the 5.3 is an option.

 

That said, if he just needs something basic and doesn't need to tow a heavy trailer, the 4.3 is a fine engine.  It has roughly the same power characteristics of the 5.3 from about 12 years ago.   The instinct when buying a truck is always to go for the biggest baddest engine you can afford, but these new V6es from GM and Ford and Chrysler are plenty good enough for most folks who just want to haul mulch home from Home Depot. 

 

I really like the High Country, but it is very much Chevy copying Ford's King Ranch.  My Mom drives a 2007 King Ranch with that dark brown interior. 

 

5.3 has always been a great engine from inception and I can't wait to get my 99 Z71 regular cab back on the road.

[Drew Dowdell]

5.3 has always been a great engine from inception and I can't wait to get my 99 Z71 regular cab back on the road.

 

well... yes... the old 5.3 was great... but it's not the same engine as the 5.3 that is being put into the trucks now.

[Stew]

 

 

uh, the LT1 is available at any Chevy or GMC dealer in the truck section.   Stand in the middle of the truck lot, throw a tomato, and there is a really good chance you'll hit a truck with an LT1. 

I was talking LT1 to LT1, if i am not mistaken the truck version has different internals to produce more torque at a lower RPM but less HP.  in any case they are VERY low production as they are only available on higher trims.  We can talk about the 5.7 and 6.4, and the Pentastar and how many different vehicles they are available in with the same exact internals if you want lol. 

 

 

Nope, just a slightly different cam and different VVT tuning, same block and everything else.  The L86/LT1 is not low production, 30% of each model sold is a Denali when a Denali model is available.  

 

Not all Denalis are 6.2s though as the 5.3 is standard, compared with GMC's relatively low production, then the Denalis lower production, then not all Denalis being 6.2s.........

 

I am still searching on the differences, per Wards: 

 

The L86 has a lot in common with the LT1: displacement, block, bore and stroke, 11.5:1 compression ratio, cylinder heads, crankshafts, continuously variable valve timing and other hardware.

But the LT1 requires unique intake, exhaust and lubrication systems and tuning to meet the demands of a Corvette owner.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

 

uh, the LT1 is available at any Chevy or GMC dealer in the truck section.   Stand in the middle of the truck lot, throw a tomato, and there is a really good chance you'll hit a truck with an LT1. 

I was talking LT1 to LT1, if i am not mistaken the truck version has different internals to produce more torque at a lower RPM but less HP.  in any case they are VERY low production as they are only available on higher trims.  We can talk about the 5.7 and 6.4, and the Pentastar and how many different vehicles they are available in with the same exact internals if you want lol. 

 

 

Nope, just a slightly different cam and different VVT tuning, same block and everything else.  The L86/LT1 is not low production, 30% of each model sold is a Denali when a Denali model is available.  

 

Not all Denalis are 6.2s though as the 5.3 is standard, compared with GMC's relatively low production, then the Denalis lower production, then not all Denalis being 6.2s.........

 

I am still searching on the differences, per Wards: 

 

The L86 has a lot in common with the LT1: displacement, block, bore and stroke, 11.5:1 compression ratio, cylinder heads, crankshafts, continuously variable valve timing and other hardware.

But the LT1 requires unique intake, exhaust and lubrication systems and tuning to meet the demands of a Corvette owner.

 

 

"Exhaust" is not the engine.  GM could hook the 3.6 V6 up to the corvette exhaust.

LT1 has a dry oil sump I believe - for high G-turning.

Different intake manifold too..... 

 

I thought they did have a different cam, but maybe it is just a different cam tune using the VVT system.

 

Still not major changes that would cut into profits.

[Stew]

 

5.3 has always been a great engine from inception and I can't wait to get my 99 Z71 regular cab back on the road.

 

well... yes... the old 5.3 was great... but it's not the same engine as the 5.3 that is being put into the trucks now.

 

no, it isn't, I know this, just saying that the new one had a lot to live up to since the 5.3 has always set a standard for power/efficiency in each gen.  I would have problem getting a new Silverado with the 5.3 ecotec3.

[Stew]

 

 

 

 

uh, the LT1 is available at any Chevy or GMC dealer in the truck section.   Stand in the middle of the truck lot, throw a tomato, and there is a really good chance you'll hit a truck with an LT1. 

I was talking LT1 to LT1, if i am not mistaken the truck version has different internals to produce more torque at a lower RPM but less HP.  in any case they are VERY low production as they are only available on higher trims.  We can talk about the 5.7 and 6.4, and the Pentastar and how many different vehicles they are available in with the same exact internals if you want lol. 

 

 

Nope, just a slightly different cam and different VVT tuning, same block and everything else.  The L86/LT1 is not low production, 30% of each model sold is a Denali when a Denali model is available.  

 

Not all Denalis are 6.2s though as the 5.3 is standard, compared with GMC's relatively low production, then the Denalis lower production, then not all Denalis being 6.2s.........

 

I am still searching on the differences, per Wards: 

 

The L86 has a lot in common with the LT1: displacement, block, bore and stroke, 11.5:1 compression ratio, cylinder heads, crankshafts, continuously variable valve timing and other hardware.

But the LT1 requires unique intake, exhaust and lubrication systems and tuning to meet the demands of a Corvette owner.

 

 

"Exhaust" is not the engine.  GM could hook the 3.6 V6 up to the corvette exhaust.

LT1 has a dry oil sump I believe - for high G-turning.

Different intake manifold too..... 

 

I thought they did have a different cam, but maybe it is just a different cam tune using the VVT system.

 

Still not major changes that would cut into profits.

 

I am not saying it would cut profits, just that there are differences and that the production is still pretty low anyways, not that it matters, because the point on the Charger/Challenger/300 was not only the engines and transmission, but suspension pieces and the general platform. 

Also, something hyper needs to realize, is they are produce all 3 on the same production line so it is doubtful they even have the ability to produce the Challenger in Camaro and mustang numbers.

[ccap41]

 

 

 

 

uh, the LT1 is available at any Chevy or GMC dealer in the truck section.   Stand in the middle of the truck lot, throw a tomato, and there is a really good chance you'll hit a truck with an LT1. 

Not to correct you...but... a couple friends and I were at our local GM dealer(one of them wanted to get an idea of new truck prices..he was kindof in sticker shock) and I actually think 90% were either the 5.3 or 4.3.. But I understand what you're saying! lol

 

 

"My" Buick/GMC dealer must move a lot of Denalis.

 

And yes yes.. I know the "truck" LT1 is technically coded an L86, but it is the same engine in a different tune. 

 

Yeah there were only a couple Denalis on the lot.. but in all fairness we were looking something for him that was a little more basic so we weren't looking at everything let a lone everything that looked awesome.. but I do always like to look at price tags of the fully loaded ones.. Saw a 62k High Country..jeez. But that dark brown leather interior did look extremely fancy, especially for a truck.

 

Random. But when we were looking the window sticker was kind of confusing actually. On the lower left hand side under "mechanical" a lot of them had the 4.3 listed. BUT on the upper right(outside fo the "box") they had the 5.3 listed.

 

 

That's because the 5.3 is an option.

 

That said, if he just needs something basic and doesn't need to tow a heavy trailer, the 4.3 is a fine engine.  It has roughly the same power characteristics of the 5.3 from about 12 years ago.   The instinct when buying a truck is always to go for the biggest baddest engine you can afford, but these new V6es from GM and Ford and Chrysler are plenty good enough for most folks who just want to haul mulch home from Home Depot. 

 

I really like the High Country, but it is very much Chevy copying Ford's King Ranch.  My Mom drives a 2007 King Ranch with that dark brown interior. 

 

It was just confusing because where it listed the 5.3 and 4.3. I would have expected the locations to be switched if it was an option..

 

Well my friend is kind of one of those old school guys. His dad runs a race engine shop and..you kind of get the drift of why he would'nt drive a half ton without a v8..Yes he is a very practical guy. He's been driving an S10 through college and just recently graduated. Yes the new V6es really are quite impressive. To get my in one they would need more of the low end punch like either the EcoBoosts or a V8 has.. Which is one reason I think the 2.7 is one fantastic little motor that will impress more and more as they hit the streets. 

 

Yeah it may be copying the idea of Ford's King Ranch but isn't that the way of the automotive world? If something sells, everybodys gotta get in on that! (see small CUVs lol)

 

Shiiiiiiiiit... I absolutely love that dark brown leather.. And I didn't realize they were making King Ranches back in '09. Is the towards the beginning of them?

 

 Oops, way off topic here.. Uhhh.. Ram. Trucks.

[Drew Dowdell]

King Ranch started in 2001  - GWB had one for his ranch and Texas.

[Guest hyperv6]

The truck have all had incentives but Ram has made the most of it and that really cuts into profits. Yes they have increased sales but they have given more money back over the long run.

 

The LX is the heaviest sedans of the American big three and are still bases on an old Benz design from the 90's. There is no excuse why they could not or should not be updated to 3800 pounds and not keep falling behind. The inlaws 300 is a nice car but it is a boat. It also has many warranty issues like most of the others. The only real advantage they have is RWD.

 

The Dart is DOA. The 200 has major incentives and lease deals 199 a month lease is not a money maker on a mid size car. It came out and was praised for being a better car than it replace but a pair of new Nikes was better than the last car. It is a decent car but not in the top 4 cars on the market. Money again left on the table if they had only gotten it right. If they had gotten the 200 right like the Fusion that would have supplied the income they need to save the company.

 

I fully agree Sergio is the greatest liability and to me the Roger Smith of Chrysler. He lost a lot of good people from FCM and while he may get some things right like Jeep other things will undo all that he got right.

 

The decline I see here is much like GM. We thought things were great and GM was doing much better than they really were. The 80's and 90's were a time od slow decline we saw some major hits but a lot of slow bleeds. The Sergio FCA decline is not going to be one major hit but a slow death of a thousand small paper cuts not visible to the public.

 

Companies like this can make money but not investing in the future product and technology, delaying programs and not replacing older product as other brands have moved 2 gens beyond is like the fall of Rome.

 

If Sergio is removed and the need changed made I would change my opinion. Alfa is a Pontiac. Lancia well Buick and Fiat is a money looser. Maserati could be a Cadillac but it will take a lot of money to continue to rehab them that they just do not have enough of with out bleeding Jeep.

 

Keep in mind Chrysler has its issues and could be making more money if they were not being bled. If that money was going back to them they would really be making progress. But my whole point is unrealized income from Chrysler and the drain Fiat and its members are and how they will be the undoing of Chrysler. To me Sergio has it ass backwards and needs to pump up Chrysler to be what they can be and then let them fund Fiat. Not bleed them to the point they never become what they could be.

At this point like I have stated time will prove this one to all of us.

[TAF]

Your "Facts" are off...I would do a bit of fact checking again. Allpar would be a great place to start.

[Stew]

The truck have all had incentives but Ram has made the most of it and that really cuts into profits. Yes they have increased sales but they have given more money back over the long run.

 

The LX is the heaviest sedans of the American big three and are still bases on an old Benz design from the 90's. There is no excuse why they could not or should not be updated to 3800 pounds and not keep falling behind. The inlaws 300 is a nice car but it is a boat. It also has many warranty issues like most of the others. The only real advantage they have is RWD.

 

The Dart is DOA. The 200 has major incentives and lease deals 199 a month lease is not a money maker on a mid size car. It came out and was praised for being a better car than it replace but a pair of new Nikes was better than the last car. It is a decent car but not in the top 4 cars on the market. Money again left on the table if they had only gotten it right. If they had gotten the 200 right like the Fusion that would have supplied the income they need to save the company.

 

I fully agree Sergio is the greatest liability and to me the Roger Smith of Chrysler. He lost a lot of good people from FCM and while he may get some things right like Jeep other things will undo all that he got right.

 

The decline I see here is much like GM. We thought things were great and GM was doing much better than they really were. The 80's and 90's were a time od slow decline we saw some major hits but a lot of slow bleeds. The Sergio FCA decline is not going to be one major hit but a slow death of a thousand small paper cuts not visible to the public.

 

Companies like this can make money but not investing in the future product and technology, delaying programs and not replacing older product as other brands have moved 2 gens beyond is like the fall of Rome.

 

If Sergio is removed and the need changed made I would change my opinion. Alfa is a Pontiac. Lancia well Buick and Fiat is a money looser. Maserati could be a Cadillac but it will take a lot of money to continue to rehab them that they just do not have enough of with out bleeding Jeep.

 

Keep in mind Chrysler has its issues and could be making more money if they were not being bled. If that money was going back to them they would really be making progress. But my whole point is unrealized income from Chrysler and the drain Fiat and its members are and how they will be the undoing of Chrysler. To me Sergio has it ass backwards and needs to pump up Chrysler to be what they can be and then let them fund Fiat. Not bleed them to the point they never become what they could be.

At this point like I have stated time will prove this one to all of us.

Where are you pulling your information again????  I have a good idea where it is comeing from.....

 

 

1.  ram incentives are no higher than the rest and in fact a lot of cases show MUCH lower rebates than some others.  You realize ford is already offering around 4 grand in rebates on the 15 F-150, right?  no you don't, you get your facts out of your ass......

 

2.  the LX cars are actually lighter or on par with most cars their size.  A 392 is around 4100 pound pounds, roughly the same as a slightly smaller CTS V-Sport.  Even the lightened SS is over 3900 pounds, Mercs and Bimmers around this size run 4300-400 pounds, again those pesky facts.  And FYI, Charger, Challenger, and 300 are the most reliable in their class per publications like JD Power.  Funny that on the internet everytime somebody wants to attack a car they know someone who owns one who has had issues.  As for the platform, it is far and away from the Benz platform and in fact no longer uses any of the original Benz parts.  The 15s are showing to be excellen handlers with excellent rides and are being compared to the E39 M5, so why mess?  Also, you realize this platform is the basis for the mew Maserati sedans.  If it was as bad as ou act, that would have never happened.  Also, I have actually driven a 15 Challenger (and many older models) and the thing was amazing.  Easily one of the best interiors period and it felt like a bigger version of m brothers A5. 

 

3.  Darts goal was only 10k a month, it is getting close especially since the death of the Avenger.  200 incentives are no worse than the rest of the segment, and some, such as Malibu, Fusion, and Camry offer larger incentives.  The 200 is also in the top 5 selling midsize sedans.  Get over it....

 

4.  They kept a lot of great people in FCA and they have built a great brand, again, get over it........

 

5.  Nothing like old GM.  Their problem was selling a million different versions of he same vehicle and their interiors by playschool.

 

5.  you are out of your mind.  New minivan is coming, Uconnect is at the top of the heap for telematics, ecodiesel is a resounding success, 6.4 hemi getting the same fe as the weaker LS3 and more high tech 5.0, electric 500, hybrid minivan coming, Hellcat's excellent supercharger tech, turbocharged pentastar and updated na pentastar, Hemis, na and turbo 4 cylinder families 1-2 years out, hybrid tech coming to the new minivans and then spreading through the company,class leading transmissions, wait, where are they behind on the tech again??

Alfa is going after BMW and the new products have the beans.  There is enough pent up demand here for alfas o make hem viable.  Also, do your research, Lancia is on the chopping block.................

 

Honestly, are you even doing any research or just guessing at everything you say??????

[Drew Dowdell]

The truck have all had incentives but Ram has made the most of it and that really cuts into profits. Yes they have increased sales but they have given more money back over the long run.

 

The LX is the heaviest sedans of the American big three and are still bases on an old Benz design from the 90's. There is no excuse why they could not or should not be updated to 3800 pounds and not keep falling behind. The inlaws 300 is a nice car but it is a boat. It also has many warranty issues like most of the others. The only real advantage they have is RWD.

 

 

You keep making this statement, but it's not really true.  The LX is roughly in line with the other big sedans in weight. You can't compare it to a 4-cylinder Impala or Taurus fairly.   The Impala V6 is 3800lbs, the Charger V6 is 3934, Taurus SE V6 is 3917, Buick Lacrosse V6 is 3988.  The Taurus can bloat all the way up to 4300lbs in SHO trim, the Charger R/T V8 is 4200lbs, the Lacrosse V6 AWD is 4100lbs and it doesn't even have the heavier engine of the two performance entries from Ford or FCA. 

 

Also again, there is basically nothing left of the 90s Benz.   It's all been replaced.

[hyperv6]

The bottom line is 4000 pounds is too much weight now and will be way too much with the way the market is going. 3800 is about where they all should be and in a few years 3400 is going to have to become the norm if you plan to do any volume.

4100-4200-4300 is to much weight even if it were a GM car.

 

The new HP war is going to be mass and they all will start cutting weight just as GM has with the Cruze, Malibu and Camaro. This is only the start. Not only for more MPG but they will also enjoy the other things that come with less mass such as better handling, better braking and more acceleration.

Less mass dose more for a car than what ever HP you throw at it will do. HP only increases performance in one dimension. Less mass includes that and more.

 

Lets face the LX handles well but the fat lady has its limits.

 

As for the pissing match as I have already stated time will prove who is right here. You nor I can prove anything at this point. The real truth is My companies leader is not desperately looking for help to build new models even by force.

 

I think FCM could be turned around but you need to 86 the guy in the sweater. He will bleed Chrysler dry to save his home brand. His priorities are ass backwards to your interest. What good you are getting are only for his own needs. If he had any interest in Chrysler he would be investing in a better Dart, Hybrids and more advanced technologies like the others. Right now he has given you a new engine that was done before he got there, Delayed models and improved Jeep lines that the profits are mostly going to Europe.

 

If he were at GM doing the same thing I would be pissed off.

 

Again lets just see where this goes. I will be glad to be wrong but I just don't see it changing under the present leader.

[hyperv6]

Stew

 

1 Rams generally have been selling at lower prices and make less money per unit sold. That is nothing new. I know several new Ram owners and they are happy and the reason they move to Ram was a cheaper price as most trucks today are too damn expensive. They all came from Ford.

2 I you are fine with 4100-4300 pound cars more power to ya.

 

3 10K a month is not great in a segment where volume is king. Like I said money left on the table. If they had done the car right they would realize much more profit. It is not that they are not making money but they are not making more like they could be. It is like being in the desert you can keep drinking water but you can still dehydrate. It is a tough market and settling for 4-5 place does not work anymore. If you do you go begging for partners and don't find a date because you have so little to offer.

 

4 Never said it was a bad brand just Saying Sergio is using Chrysler as his Whore to pay for his issues with Fiat. If given the choice he would kill Chrysler before Fiat. Get use to it. He already has down graded the 300 to Impala competitor from here on out. Not even challenging the Lincoln anymore. Chrysler is the new Dodge with out performance.

 

5 Old GM was F'd up royally and you saw were that went in 08. Many of us though things were not all that bad but looking back it was much worse for a lot longer than we ever realized. I see similar things going on at Chrysler now. While it may not look dire now the slow trend down can go un noticed by the enthusiast very easy. I have been there done that.

 

I assume you meant 6?

 

Well I am glad you feel good about all that. On the out side looking in I am not impressed and will believe it when I see it.

 

I hope you  are right and I am wrong. At least two people think Alfa can compete with BMW and sell 332,000 more units in just 2 more years. That would be tough just with Chevy or Ford let alone a brand that never really had much traction in the states or outside of Europe for years. They should be more concerned about making a profit vs. beating BMW. In that segment it's more important about how much profit vs. volume. Also Sergio needs to increase sales from 4.6 to 6-7 million globally. That was his numbers not mine. He stated such last year as to what it would take to break even. Though he also said he needed no partners then too.

 

FYI I just saw my first load of Renegades on a truck today. They must have finally got the issues worked out that delayed them. It has the Honda Element vibe. It may not steal many Wrangler or Cherokee buyers but it may take some Scion and Element buyers. These little square boxes always do well with 60 year olds. That is not a slam just who has been buying these cars. The auto makers targeted the youth market and were shocked the buyers were much older and help make them successful.

 

Again good luck and I hope you are right. I do not want to see Chrysler lost and left to die. We have lost too much already. I felt the loss of Plymouth as much as my beloved Pontiac. But I understand why. This is a time I would gladly be wrong. America has lost too much auto market already.

[hyperv6]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/24/business/detroits-chief-instigator.html?_r=0

 

Not able to get the link to work but this is to a story in the NY Times 5-24-15 By Bill Vlasicmay in the Business Day section.

 

The story is a good one where he interviews Sergio and others about the issues FCA has done well with and yet to face. It is a good balanced story that gives the good and bad. It touches on many of the things I have read more in depth at other places like WSJ, Forbes, Wards and other places.

 

This gets to the real meat and potatoes of the issues here. While many of you want to argue product it gets down to the sheer numbers and what Sergio wants to achieve and how it is possible but everything has to go right. It covers the UAW issues he will face and it also touches on the NHTSA issues he has faced and will face more of. It touches on some of the merger talks and the message it has sent to many.

I recommend reading this story and then googling for stories on each area this story covers as the details are much more eye opening.

To me Chrysler is like Germany in WWII. They have a leader that while at times can move mountains with his methods. he also falls pray to doing some odd things that put his efforts at risk. While Germany had some of the best planes, Tanks and the best battle ships the sheer numbers killed them in the end. The Allies with the production and numbers coming from America just overwhelmed Germany and in the end Their leader become more desperate and did many things the hastened his own end. Now I am not saying Sergio is Hitler but the fact is Germany had many things good  going for them. They had some of the most advanced Technology there was and the equipment they had were very goof for the most part. But the Allies had much more volume and just over whelmed Germany. Also Hitler made some risky tactical moves that came back to bite him. One Eastern Front like move by Sergio it could spell doom or even outside issues like Spain or Italy falling into another recession could really damage his plans. My point here is you can have the most advanced and best army in the world and the numbers can kill you. The same applies to the auto industry today. You can have the best cars in the world but if you do not have the numbers you will fail.

 

When I see issue ahead for FCA this story is where most of my fears are rooted. But again do your homework and read up on the several topics this story touches on as there is much more to this than what is just here. This is kind of the readers digest version of the situation.

 

4000 pound cars are the least of the issues here as there are much more to this than just simple product or lack there of. Sergio is a man that needs to sell a lot of cars in a short time and while possible the odds are stacked against him unless some one comes in to save him. In the end Chrysler fails not because of Chrysler but because of Sergio's great gamble if he fails.

Edited July 9, 2015 by hyperv6

[hyperv6]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/24/business/detroits-chief-instigator.html?_r=0

 

Try this one.

[El Kabong]

That's all well and good.

...but they just outdid Ford last month in retail sales.

Clearly they are resonating with the average buyer in some profound way.

[hyperv6]

Yes but beat Ford for a year or more then will celebrate.  Find a way to go from 4.6 Million cars to Sergio's needed goal of 6-7 Million vehicles [depending on the age of what interview and goal he gave] Then we will have cause to be excited.

 

Any car company can go up and down for a month or two. Even Chevy is out selling the F150 but to that continued for a year or two then I will get excited. Too many other factors in play to celebrate a short term deal.

 

Again this is big picture and over all long term numbers here. While Chrysler is doing well FCA has many other parts pulling them down and the key is will Jeep and Ram be able to sustain enough profit to pay for all their other sins. Sergio has stated numbers and goals many in the business world just do not think will be done. He has missed past goals too but in those cases he did not have it all riding on the numbers.

 

It will be interesting to see what he does if he does not meet his stated goals by 2018. He said he would stay till then. What if he falls short of the increased Alfa production. The 6-7 Million cars he needs to make a profit cooperation wise over the present 4.6 million cars. What if gas prices come in and tank truck sales? Economy? Will he find the partner he said he did not need now he says he does need and has tried to force the issue?

 

These larger issues are what remain in question and are not easily fixed or controlled.  I expect jeep and Ram to continue to grow but not at the rate needed to make his stated needed goals.

 

If he was honest with his statements last year with the 5 stated needed goals it may be tough.

This Italian  is not Lido who would put America and Chrysler first.

Edited July 9, 2015 by hyperv6

[El Kabong]

So Sergo is being crazy optimistic. Investors should be wary of that, I get it. But that in no way diminishes the product success he currently has. You're saying that because he's planning a skyscraper that's too tall we should ignore the solid foundation he's starting out with, and that's just not fair.

And no-considering the shape Mopar was in when Cerberus was done with it I WILL celebrate them beating Ford in retail sales, even for one month. After all, Ford was supposedly the golden child for avoiding bankruptcy back in '08, right? Now they're slipping behind Mopar...

[Stew]

You didn't really counter anything i said and went off with the same incorrect facts you continue to post.

 

I will only mention your crap about car's weight and the ram.  There is absolutely no way that a fullsize car will reach anywhere NEAR 3400 pounds with required safety regs and  buyer requirements for options.  I mean really, look, even the lightweight CTS V-Sport with all of it's weight savings is still right at 4000 pounds.  So please, quit posting BS over and over again......  on the ram, they make just as much on them as the others make on thir trucks.  it is cheaper because it is based on an older architecture that is less expensive, especially than the Aluminum F-150 which is already seeing big rebates. 

[hyperv6]

Kabong this is simply a case of mismanagement. While Sergio has hit a couple home runs the over all picture and plan he has leave no room for error. To put it simply it is like he put all his chips on one number and spun the wheel.

Come 2018 he either will have to increase volume to 6-7 million cars from 4.6 million. Now this is where the market watchers are dismayed. They know Jeep is going gang busters but the rest of  Chrysler is not going to increase 2-3 million cars by 2018.

The rest of the plan is to increase Alfa by 332,000 units by 2018 and compete with BMW? This too is not likely to happen per market watchers. The fact is unless he gets outside help to reduce cost he is going to have a difficult time meeting his goals. Now if he gets help with platforms the 6-7 million can come down and this was his desperate plea to GM. He also would like much of their technology Fiat does not have at this time. The Fiat 500 electric is not going to save them in this segment of the market. To develop new engines for the future and new platforms it will take billions more than Jeep and Ram alone can make. On top of that much of this money is going to the Euro divisions and will not go back to Chrysler as It should.

 

The reality is if he wants to save the strongest of FCA he needs to pump the money into Chrysler not Fiat, Alfa, Maserati or Lancia. It is possible if he can save Chrysler in the future they can come back and rebuild these struggling divisions. Fiat of Europe is much like Saturn, Pontiac and Hummer. they have their fans but they are not making money and what you put in now will only weaken the stronger parts of FCA.

 

Stew the CTSV at 4000 pounds it too heavy in my book. This is why we will see a next gen before long that will lose weight. This one will not be around as long as the Sigma. Stop the fan boy praise and take off the rose colored glasses. The fact is Sergio is going to let Chrysler die with his crazy plan to save the Euro models. His is sacrificing the strong brother to save the weak.

 

Again do you really believe it is smart to expect Alfa to sell 400.000 cars and invest money there than build a new modern lighter Omega Challenging  LX now? I also saw your 200 you praised in a list of top models. It got 5th out of 6 best sedans at Car and Driver. Not good for a car so new. Like they say better than the car it replaced and it has a nice personality too. LOL! Anyways the discounts on it are making people good deals. 199 a month lease is a bargain. Don't say that is not true as it is on my screen as I type. I can get 0% for 60 months and $500 off or $1000 off a Dart too. This thread is bringing up all the deals they are offering at Dodge.

Also what do you think about the 300 being targeted at the Impala and no longer at the Lincoln, Lexus or Buick? This is what Sergio has stated. I think that is a mistake. But again my in laws got a 300 for the price of the out going Malibu. Good deal when it has not been recalled.

 

Stew I am only attacking models as you are refusing to see the big picture and that this is not about models or the success of Chrysler. Sergio is willing to bleed your favorite company dry for his own needs at companies that have a low chance of survival. The sooner he is gone the better. Lido would have done the opposite and things would be looking much better.

 

Lets face it FCA is not an American company anymore. It is based in England and run buy an Italian with little to no auto experience that was raised in Canada. Add to this he is an accountant. So he knows where the money is going. Someone should tell him you do not beg for business dates in public or people will get the idea you are desperate.

The bottom line is this. 4000 pound cars or not Sergio is going to drag Chrysler down with his own ill conceived ideas of saving Fiat. Plain and simple. Jeep, Ram and Chrysler alone an not do the volume nor generate enough money by 2018 to meet his goals. I just hope that someone comes in and can undo some of his plans and turn things around when he retires. As the story says outside things always happen and if they do it may not leave many options.