Random Thoughts Thread

[ccap41]

16 hours ago, David said:

Seems Hyundai is very serious about raking in EV subsidies and sales as they move production of EVs here to the U.S. in 2023 and now this about battery production.

Hyundai breaks ground on $5.5 bln U.S. EV, battery plant | Reuters

Hyundai says new U.S. EV plant could begin production in 2024, produce 500,000 vehicles annually | Reuters

There have been plenty of things that the US government has done poorly the last couple decades but I think forcing foreign auto companies to produce their vehicles here was a great move. 

[G. David Felt]

Very interesting, Tesla has lost their EV crown to BYD in China. Other interesting things in this video too.

Interesting comparison as some auto companies say that chip availability will be back to normal by the end of 2023 making 2024 a much better year for auto sales. Yet other auto companies are saying the chip shortage is here to stay through 2025 or 2026 as companies avoid items built in China and move forward with local produced chips that will come online in the U.S. or Europe between end of 2024 and 2026.

They did a good job covering the CELESTIQ Mega Casting and why GM is going this route of 6 Mega Castings versus 3 like Tesla. Finner adjustments and repairs it would seem according to GM. Each Mega Casting reduces from 30 to 50 stamped parts that are assembled for 1 single mega cast. That means 6 mega cast parts replace 180 to 300 stamped parts. That will be much more tight quality.

Very interesting watch.

This was yesterdays video where they covered the massive GM profit they had for the quarter of $15 billion. Also, pretty much confirmation that an EV Corvette and EV Corvette SUV will be built and out in 2026.

 

I have to totally agree with this story as it is also based on the above Autoline Daily story that is from internal sources at GM.

Electric Corvette SUV Reportedly Due 2026 (autoevolution.com)

Autoline Network, citing AutoForecast Solutions, adds fuel to the fire. “The Corvette EV will go into production in May 2026, less than four years from now.” The Grand River plant in Lansing, not the Bowling Green plant in Kentucky, will reportedly handle production. The cited publication also understands that General Motors will build an electric Buick SUV and an electric Cadillac sedan there, which seems feasible. Lansing Grand River is currently making the Chevrolet Camaro, Cadillac CT4, and CT5 on the Alpha platform. All three and the Alpha are due to be discontinued soon.

[G. David Felt]

Will be interesting to see what the first Buick SUV EV will be and at least GM has committed to keeping ICE Corvettes built as long as there are sales to justify them as they also start building EV versions. I know some will be mad at Corvette Sedan and SUV, but I have to say that I think this will just expand the Corvette Family of ownership as I tend to believe that there are many out there that want Corvette performance but, in a family, packaged auto.

[Drew Dowdell]

Question for everyone:  I'm working really hard on getting regular feature stories started back up.  I have three series themes I'm working with so far and I am looking for suggestions for each one.  Ideally, I would do one from each theme each month.

Fabulous Flops - We've done Fabulous Flops before with the Renault Avantime and the Chrysler 2.2 Liter - The theme of this is something that was actually pretty good, but failed in sales. It can be a technology or a model or even a whole brand.

Forgotten Tech - These are things that were supposed to be the promise of the future, but failed to catch hold.  Some examples already in my list are HCCI engines, V2V technology, and Buick Dynaflow transmissions.

Guilty Pleasures - These are cars from the past that aren't considered popular (No GNX, Corvette, Mustangs) but for some reason scratch an itch, and if you found a clean one for cheap, you'd consider buying it.  If you suggest one that I think is a compelling story, I'll take it to private message and we can talk about it more.

So please post here or send me a PM.  I'll select ones that I can write an educated article on, but not every suggestion will be selected.

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Fabulous Flops - We've done Fabulous Flops before with the Renault Avantime and the Chrysler 2.2 Liter - The theme of this is something that was actually pretty good, but failed in sales. It can be a technology or a model or even a whole brand.

The first thing that came to my mind was the first gen Escape Hybrid that seemed like a great vehicle and a little "ahead of its time" but they never actually took off. 

The Quadrasteer kind of falls into this category as well, especially with GM bringing it back with the Hummer EV and Sierra EV. 

[Drew Dowdell]

42 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The first thing that came to my mind was the first gen Escape Hybrid that seemed like a great vehicle and a little "ahead of its time" but they never actually took off. 

The Quadrasteer kind of falls into this category as well, especially with GM bringing it back with the Hummer EV and Sierra EV. 

Good ones! Keep it coming! higher end CT6 had Quadra steer too

[ccap41]

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Good ones! Keep it coming! higher end CT6 had Quadra steer too

Holy smokes, I completely forgot about that! 

It seems like the kind of tech that would have been FANTASTIC in the large trucks for the last couple decades and it's a shame it went away. 

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Question for everyone:  I'm working really hard on getting regular feature stories started back up.  I have three series themes I'm working with so far and I am looking for suggestions for each one.  Ideally, I would do one from each theme each month.

Fabulous Flops - We've done Fabulous Flops before with the Renault Avantime and the Chrysler 2.2 Liter - The theme of this is something that was actually pretty good, but failed in sales. It can be a technology or a model or even a whole brand.

Forgotten Tech - These are things that were supposed to be the promise of the future, but failed to catch hold.  Some examples already in my list are HCCI engines, V2V technology, and Buick Dynaflow transmissions.

Guilty Pleasures - These are cars from the past that aren't considered popular (No GNX, Corvette, Mustangs) but for some reason scratch an itch, and if you found a clean one for cheap, you'd consider buying it.  If you suggest one that I think is a compelling story, I'll take it to private message and we can talk about it more.

So please post here or send me a PM.  I'll select ones that I can write an educated article on, but not every suggestion will be selected.

Forgotten Tech - I know many that are aware of the EV1 was a flop, but GM actually had some good tech here that they failed to capitalize on. I feel the VOLT and its PowerTrain was also in this camp as I think GM would have done well using the Volt 2.0 powertrain in a CUV.

I also was always amazed by the history of Cadillac and the fact that Alanson Partridge Brush who has the patents on VTEC way before Honda and Alfa started using the moniker that they had superior engines. According to history notes, Cadillac rolled out the first engine in 1903 that had VVT or Variable Valve Timing.

Guilty Pleasures - Not everyone will agree with me, but there were some cars that rocked being driven hard with the GM QUAD 4 motor. That engine rocked and a large number of them were bored out and turbocharged to crazy horsepower numbers. I remember one such drag auto that produced 1200 hp on the strip and truly shocked the V8 crowd. If you drove it, it was an amazing peppy small engine. Olds rocked it and it is what I consider the last of great Olds Tech that the division created.

[G. David Felt]

Interesting pics of a possible RAM EV Pickup test mule.

Ram EV Pickup Mule Spied Undergoing Testing (gmauthority.com)

[oldshurst442]

I visited my local Lego store and I saw many Lego themed sets.  (I didnt actually visit a Lego store, just a funny story at the end of it...)

Star Wars, Lego City...motorized sets too.  

I also came across some very impressive automotive themed sets.

Porsche and Corvette...among others

       

 

But  the most impressive set, the brand new BMW M2.

Looks almost like the real thing. Less blocky than the others...

Edited October 28, 2022 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

On 10/28/2022 at 4:02 PM, oldshurst442 said:

I visited my local Lego store and I saw many Lego themed sets.  (I didnt actually visit a Lego store, just a funny story at the end of it...)

Star Wars, Lego City...motorized sets too.  

I also came across some very impressive automotive themed sets.

Porsche and Corvette...among others

       

 

But  the most impressive set, the brand new BMW M2.

Looks almost like the real thing. Less blocky than the others...

I like all the new Lego sets, interesting is the love hate debate over the new Lego Logo and box design. Guess some are really hung up on the past and see no reason to modernize or change. Crazy.

? Wonder how long before they get the EVs done as Lego Sets, would be cool to have the Cadillac LYRIQ, CELESTIQ and ESCALADE in a Lego.

[G. David Felt]

Very cool, 7 pages of cars, interesting that American Muscle is cheaper than European or Asian autos. 

Toy Cars – Drive What You Love | Vehicles | LEGO.com | Official LEGO® Shop US

[oldshurst442]

@David

Although I LOVE that you LOVE Lego sets, especially the car sets.

The joke is that the new BMW M2 is so blocky, it could be styled by Lego set engineers...

Weirdly though, I actually like it...

[oldshurst442]

I wonder what is more urgent for Elon to fix?

The million unit recalls his cars are faced with last month and the transport and logistical problems or the free speech Twitter ownership thing?

Great humanitarian, philanthropist  and leader he is.  Bless him. 

 

 

[oldshurst442]

On 10/27/2022 at 2:56 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Fabulous Flops - We've done Fabulous Flops before with the Renault Avantime and the Chrysler 2.2 Liter - The theme of this is something that was actually pretty good, but failed in sales. It can be a technology or a model or even a whole brand.

 

A historical account of why VW, mainly Piech, wanted to do a VW luxury car.  The Phaeton.  Where VW stood before the Phaeton and the lukewarm success of the Passat/A4 that got VW and Audi back on track from the not so good 1980s  to where these brands are today and the success they have today. 

 

What cars were on its platform and the derivatives of that platform.  Audi A8 and the various Bentleys, etc.  Its a story that has been told many times before, but I think its a very relevant story that needs to be retold.  This car has shaped VAG in many ways and elevated even Porsche. 

VR6, W8 and W12 engines would be another story or take on the Phaeton story to be told separetaly.  Corrado and Golf GT VR6s, Passat W8s, Phaeton W12s and Bugatti W16s...

 

 

The history of the  Subaru SVX might be an intersesting story too.

 

Its boxer 6 and intersting reasons for having split side windows makes for a pssible good story too. 

 

[oldshurst442]

On 10/27/2022 at 2:56 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Fabulous Flops

The actual successor to the original Cobra.  Not the Viper.  That one is a spiritual successor. And it wasnt a flop.  It went away, but it didnt die quietly or unnoticed or unloved.  

The actual successor that Carrol himself designed and engineered.

The Series 1 Shelby I think would make for a good story. 

 

It was engineered with all the usual  high tech stuff of the day. Stuff that supercars today use.  Aluminium tube chassis.  Carbon Fibre in some body panels.  A DOHC V8 (from Oldsmobile) producing 320 HP from 4 liters gets the HP per liter folk excited mounted completely behind the front axles for a front mid-engine design that supported a torque tube 6 speed ZF transaxle for optimal weight distribution.

It had all the tech. It had the looks. It had the speed  when the 4 liter Northstar variant produced a then almost class leading 450 horsepower making it get to 60 MPH in a blistering even for today 3.8 seconds and a 12 second quarter mile time. Just about the fastest in its era in those categories. It wasnt a track specialist of a car. Some other supercars of that time had slightly better spec in handling and braking, it was a very competent sports car. It looked the part of a Cobra successor. It had the speed and sound of a 1960s roadster, but perhaps the Viper that was launched earlier in the decade captured all the attention and had all the visceral performance that the Series 1 couldnt match. And it showed in the sales making it a flop.  And even today, the Series 1, with only 249 of them produced, doesnt make anybody miss the car and their values are low.   Vipers on the otherhand are starting to become desireable and quickly becoming quite expensive to obtain.

[oldshurst442]

On 10/27/2022 at 2:56 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Forgotten Tech

T-Tops

Oh sure, we still have a car or 2 with manual removeable targa tops, like the C8 Corvette, but there was a time when there was another type of manual removeable top.

The T-Top.  

 

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

The history of the  Subaru SVX might be an intersesting story too.

 

Its boxer 6 and intersting reasons for having split side windows makes for a pssible good story too. 

Came oh so close to buying one (a '94 model I believe) around 2001 but the transmission was slipping to the point of needing replacing and that was not a cheap fix at all. Was a neat little ride back then though and yes, the Delorean style windows were a selling point for me lol. 

[oldshurst442]

On 10/27/2022 at 12:41 PM, David said:

This was yesterdays video where they covered the massive GM profit they had for the quarter of $15 billion. Also, pretty much confirmation that an EV Corvette and EV Corvette SUV will be built and out in 2026.

EV Corvette yes.  But we knew that from almost the time that Chevy showed us the C8.  Corvette engineers were being coy about it, but as a viewer of the C8 launch, you just knew that the C8 EV was to come. Just a matter of time.

The SUV Vette however is not confirmed. 

Autoline 'suspects' that the electric Vette that is to be built in Grand River plant in Lansing will be an SUV...  Because Buick EV SUVs will be built there. Along with a big Cadillac sedan.  But that is not proof that a Vette SUV is coming.   

Tadge Jeucter, Corvette chief engineer hasnt been coy about a Corvette SUV or Corvette expanding a Corvette brand. He has DENIED it firmly that as long as he is Corvette chief engineer, none of that is happening...

I believe that a Camaro SUV will be that Chevrolet performance EV SUV.  A Camaro branded SUV. Not a Corvette one.  

Bowling Green is not shutting down to build EVs. Not just yet. They shut down to, normal, to upgrade to C8 castings from the C7.  But that retrofit did not include EV manufacturing capabilities.  Thus the EV C8 to be built at Lansing at the Grand River plant...  

More to it, Autoline only casually mentioned an EV SUV Vette not even acknowledging that the C8  E-Ray hybrid  is out and about right now in camo...    A full on BEV C8 is what Autoline should have reported on as that is what is the next big C8 Corvette announcement is gonna be.   The Z06 is on sale now. The E-Ray will be in production probably this year, closer to the end of the year and when Chevy confirms it, Chevy will confirm the BEV C8 which is what Autoline falsely believes will be the SUV EV Vette. 

[oldshurst442]

Maybe Im thinking it wrong. About a Corvette EV SUV...   Sorry. 

 

 

[G. David Felt]

On 10/29/2022 at 12:02 PM, oldshurst442 said:

It had the looks. 

Are you sure you are not sick again with Covid? This has the looks? A weird hood / light design with a Carp like air inlet. This is anything but good styling, even the wheel wells from front to back look off and just not good.

This is a weird butt ugly car.

22 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Maybe Im thinking it wrong. About a Corvette EV SUV...   Sorry. 

 

 

That is OK, Usually the harder they try to sell this will never happen, the more truthful it is that it will happen. GM as well as other auto companies seem to have always followed this messaging to protect current existing product, but usually it has become tru.

[trinacriabob]

Good morning ...

Got milk? Check.

Got your Halloween costume ready?

.

.

.

Happy Halloween nonetheless.

[ccap41]

On 10/29/2022 at 2:25 PM, oldshurst442 said:

T-Tops

Boy-o-boy you nailed this! T-Tops are sooooo missed. I am not a fan of convertibles but T-tops would be awesome in all of the sports car world!

[G. David Felt]

On 10/28/2022 at 7:02 PM, oldshurst442 said:

I wonder what is more urgent for Elon to fix?

The million unit recalls his cars are faced with last month and the transport and logistical problems or the free speech Twitter ownership thing.

Great humanitarian, philanthropist and leader he is.  Bless him. 

 

 

Let me fix this for you, Free HATE speech Twitter ownership thing.

I give Twitter 24 months before it closes down due to Musk.

Musk needs to be fired from his CEO duties of Tesla, he is clearly way too focused on Fake news, Conspiracy Theories and his own Narcissistic needs to LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME to properly run an auto company.

[oldshurst442]

16 hours ago, David said:

Are you sure you are not sick again with Covid? This has the looks? A weird hood / light design with a Carp like air inlet. This is anything but good styling, even the wheel wells from front to back look off and just not good.

This is a weird butt ugly car.

Well, the Series 1 doesnt have that boxy SUV look you drool over, so Im not surprised you dont like it... 

[ccap41]

I'm with @oldshurst442. I've always loved the Series 1 Shelby. The big hood vent, the staggered and "deep dish" rear wheels, and the "bubbly" body work here. You can definitely tell it's 20-25 years old but I think the styling still works today. 

[G. David Felt]

26 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Well, the Series 1 doesnt have that boxy SUV look you drool over, so Im not surprised you dont like it... 

If this had the sexy looks of the mid 80's Monte Carlo, I would be all over it. But that series 1 does not look good, it is terrible. Fords GT is way better looking than this as is the original Shelby.

23 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I'm with @oldshurst442. I've always loved the Series 1 Shelby. The big hood vent, the staggered and "deep dish" rear wheels, and the "bubbly" body work here. You can definitely tell it's 20-25 years old but I think the styling still works today. 

Nope, will not agree with you, but glad you like this Carp Mouth air intake, fisheyes headlights, weird sized wheel wells and the odd styling flow.

At least we can agree to disagree and I am very happy that you and @oldshurst442 like it and would own it. For me, I will stay with a more mid 80's Monte Carlo auto style or my love of Trucks and SUVs. ?

[G. David Felt]

If I had any artistic skills, I would love to photoshop into a modern version this 1986 Monte Carlo Aero on the Ultium Platform. Stretch the trunk back a little, but otherwise a smoother modern version of this would be cool.

[G. David Felt]

Interesting read.

GM Dials Back EV Sales Target, Following Upbeat Earnings Report - WSJ

Pretty much what I have been saying about the chicken or the Egg. In this case ramping up the battery production is not easy or fast and LG while ahead of schedule in building the battery plants, is still working out the nuances of battery cell production.

GM is now planning to sell 400,000 EVs from Jan 1st 2023 to the end of June 2023.

[G. David Felt]

Seems Taco Bell is wanting to ensure folks can get to their restaurants for the EV generation. As such, they are going to install fast charge chargers for customers to use that will give 100 miles of range in 20 minutes so that folks can stop, charge up the EV and themselves with Taco Bell food.

Taco Bell will install chargers at 100 locations next year and continue that every year till all have chargers.

EV fast-charging at 100 Taco Bells: A new norm for fast food? (greencarreports.com)

Very cool electric conversion of an old Nissan Pickup to a modern Leaf Powertrain.

Vintage Nissan Sunny electric pickup hauls with Leaf power (greencarreports.com)

1987 Nissan Sunny Pickup left the assembly plant new with 73 hp and 78.6 lb-ft of torque. Now it has 147 HP 236 lb-ft of torque.

Cool Conversion

[G. David Felt]

Seems North Carolina is wanting to move faster than other states, much like California in a Govenor mandate to move to Electric buses and medium and heavy duty trucks.

Governor Cooper Signs Executive Order to Grow North Carolina’s Clean Energy Economy by Supporting the Market-Driven Transition to Zero-Emission Trucks and Buses | NC Gov. Cooper

 

[riviera74]

On 10/31/2022 at 6:33 PM, David said:

Seems North Carolina is wanting to move faster than other states, much like California in a Govenor mandate to move to Electric buses and medium and heavy duty trucks.

Governor Cooper Signs Executive Order to Grow North Carolina’s Clean Energy Economy by Supporting the Market-Driven Transition to Zero-Emission Trucks and Buses | NC Gov. Cooper

 

CA and NC: good luck with that.  I do hope they succeed.

[G. David Felt]

Ford Numbers are out. Secure at the #2 selling EV brand in the U.S.

Ford U.S. October 2022 Sales

GM Also had a pretty stellar quarter too.

GM Reports Third-Quarter 2022 Results | General Motors Company

2022 Guidance

• Full-year net income of between $9.6 billion and $11.2 billion, and EBIT-adjusted of between $13.0 billion and $15.0 billion
• Full-year EPS-diluted of between $5.76 and $6.76, and EPS-diluted-adjusted of between $6.50 and $7.50
• Full-year net automotive cash provided by operating activities guidance range of between $16.0 billion and $19.0 billion, and adjusted automotive free cash flow guidance range of between $7.0 billion and $9.0 billion

GM Q3 2022 Financial Highlights

[trinacriabob]

On 10/29/2022 at 3:57 PM, surreal1272 said:

Came oh so close to buying one (a '94 model I believe) around 2001 but the transmission was slipping to the point of needing replacing and that was not a cheap fix at all. Was a neat little ride back then though and yes, the Delorean style windows were a selling point for me lol. 

I know one person who had this unusual Subaru model.  And, sure enough, he had to replace the transmission in it and this would have happened prior to 2000.

Like the WRXs that kids turn into "rice rockets" (as they're called), I didn't get too much heartburn from Subaru SVXs, either, because you wouldn't see them on the roads with the all too common stereotypical owners and the all too common "Darwin with feet" and "Keep your laws off my body" decals.

[surreal1272]

44 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

I know one person who had this unusual Subaru model.  And, sure enough, he had to replace the transmission in it and this would have happened prior to 2000.

Like the WRXs that kids turn into "rice rockets" (as they're called), I didn't get too much heartburn from Subaru SVXs, either, because you wouldn't see them on the roads with the all too common stereotypical owners and the all too common "Darwin with feet" and "Keep your laws off my body" decals.

The larger problem with the first two model years of those cars was a transmission overheating problem. The lines were too small for sufficient cooling. Supposedly they added a transmission cooler in the latter year models but by then it had a foot out the door here. 

[G. David Felt]

Interesting read on how Ford is taking on Tesla in China, head on with price cuts to win market share.

Ford Hits Back at Tesla (msn.com)

[G. David Felt]

Very interesting video, another reason that Tesla is going to have nothing but hardship as the other auto companies release EVs.

Tesla needs a new CEO

 

[G. David Felt]

So what does folks think of Wraps?

Here is a wrap put on a new Mustang to make it look old.

 

[G. David Felt]

Outstanding Read, I have to agree that GM needs to benchmark this R1S for the upcoming Escalade EV.

Rivian R1S Review: A Brilliant Example of What an EV Can Be (roadandtrack.com)

[trinacriabob]

I just looked and I have almost $ 5,000 toward the purchase of a new GM vehicle on my card.

When I bought my current car in the late 2000s, the question was, "What should I buy?" (I applied $3,000 toward the car, courtesy of a rounding / top off to that amount.)

Now, the question is, "What does GM make that I would even want to buy?"

The auto industry is in a weird transition and funk right now.  And so am I.

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

I just looked and I have almost $ 5,000 toward the purchase of a new GM vehicle on my card.

When I bought my current car in the late 2000s, the question was, "What should I buy?" (I applied $3,000 toward the car, courtesy of a rounding / top off to that amount.)

Now, the question is, "What does GM make that I would even want to buy?"

The auto industry is in a weird transition and funk right now.  And so am I.

A Funktastic EV is what you Need! 

[ccap41]

11 minutes ago, David said:

A Funktastic EV is what you Need! 

Per GM, with no frunk though... 

[G. David Felt]

Electric School buses are gaining traction as TBB just delivered their 200th EV Bus.

Charged EVs | Thomas Built Buses delivers 200th Proterra Powered electric school bus - Charged EVs

[trinacriabob]

22 hours ago, David said:

A Funktastic EV is what you Need! 

I'm not in the "early adopter" segment among C&G folks.  I will want to wait until the infrastructure is better set up for it.  I am all for EV technology.

Back to potential cars, the Malibu won't be refreshed/retained and the Charger will come back as electric and be exorbitantly priced.  There's the entry level small RWD Cadillac, but that's still too much money.

Looking at imports, I don't like the Nissan and Kia/Hyundai sedan products.  I could live with a Camry - I think - if the overstyling went away, but I don't see that happening soon enough.

I could definitely live with a VW Passat, which got nicer and nicer over the years.  Then I find out it's gone.  I guess I could live with a VW Jetta.  I looked at the VW site and they went from a 1.8 L down to a 1.5 L.  (I dislike engines with less than the equivalent of 100 c.i. and I'm not the biggest fan of odd numbers!)  

The above is from the VW site itself.  I hated older Jettas. 

However, they are now looking like "pocket Passats."  Not bad.  I had one for a week in Houston about 2 years ago.

[ccap41]

27 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

I'm not in the "early adopter" segment among C&G folks.  I will want to wait until the infrastructure is better set up for it.  I am all for EV technology.

Back to potential cars, the Malibu won't be refreshed/retained and the Charger will come back as electric and be exorbitantly priced.  There's the entry level small RWD Cadillac, but that's still too much money.

Looking at imports, I don't like the Nissan and Kia/Hyundai sedan products.  I could live with a Camry - I think - if the overstyling went away, but I don't see that happening soon enough.

I could definitely live with a VW Passat, which got nicer and nicer over the years.  Then I find out it's gone.  I guess I could live with a VW Jetta.  I looked at the VW site and they went from a 1.8 L down to a 1.5 L.  (I dislike engines with less than the equivalent of 100 c.i. and I'm not the biggest fan of odd numbers!)  

The above is from the VW site itself.  I hated older Jettas. 

However, they are now looking like "pocket Passats."  Not bad.  I had one for a week in Houston about 2 years ago.

One of my best friends had a Passat for a few years. I think his was a 2017. He loved it but they were about to have their first child and his wife's car was a 2010 Escape getting a little rough so he traded it in for his wife who got a '22 Atlas and he took the Escape. 

He loved it though, pretty easily got 30mpg and the only thing that broke in his ~70,000-80,000 miles of ownership was the water pump went, which is apparently pretty common amongst the VW 1.8T. 

I would definitely consider one, if I were in the market for a large-ish sedan. 

[G. David Felt]

56 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

One of my best friends had a Passat for a few years. I think his was a 2017. He loved it but they were about to have their first child and his wife's car was a 2010 Escape getting a little rough so he traded it in for his wife who got a '22 Atlas and he took the Escape. 

He loved it though, pretty easily got 30mpg and the only thing that broke in his ~70,000-80,000 miles of ownership was the water pump went, which is apparently pretty common amongst the VW 1.8T. 

I would definitely consider one, if I were in the market for a large-ish sedan. 

WHAT ? You would not want a V8 Corvair?

?

[regfootball]

Dealer near here has one of THESE.  KINDA sorta WANNA ...replace the third car (Grand Prix) with this........

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by regfootball

[surreal1272]

29 minutes ago, regfootball said:

Dealer near here has one of THESE.  KINDA sorta WANNA ...replace the third car (Grand Prix) with this........

 

 

 

 

Shame the best looking Saab sold here was the last Saab sold here. It was the most modern take on the always quirky styling of those. They look super sharp in the darker gray shades.

[trinacriabob]

1 hour ago, regfootball said:

Dealer near here has one of THESE.  KINDA sorta WANNA ...replace the third car (Grand Prix) with this........

 

 

 

I don't know much about them.  Compared to so many other vehicles, it would now be less polarizing.  I don't know what sort of reliability they turn in.  

As I was scrolling very quickly and landed on the photo of its interior, I thought it was an Olds Aurora for a split second.  Again, a split second.

[regfootball]

On 11/4/2022 at 7:04 PM, trinacriabob said:

I don't know much about them.  Compared to so many other vehicles, it would now be less polarizing.  I don't know what sort of reliability they turn in.  

As I was scrolling very quickly and landed on the photo of its interior, I thought it was an Olds Aurora for a split second.  Again, a split second.

Yes, the Aurora dash is one of the big draws of this Saab.  

Parts availability on these is a thing.  I hear the taillights have some sort of design flaw, and if you have to replace them its outrageous expensive and hard to get.

This was a LaCrosse platform twin.  So it has good space inside and should share some mechanicals with other GM cars.  

Edited November 6, 2022 by regfootball