Random Thoughts Thread

[Drew Dowdell]

Happy Birthday Robert! ?

[oldshurst442]

22 hours ago, David said:

Need a way bigger picture, so small cannot see any details, Olds. 

LOL

that is THE idea.  Im not too keen to have my face on the webs...

OK...here is another clearer pic

Head coach is Barbara, top left.  My daughter is right next to her.  Im the bald dude 4rth from left to right top.  Leanne is the other assistant coach 7th top left to right.  The other dude was just a dad that helped us with practices but was not part of the "coaching staff'.     This was in 2018

 

 

Again in 2018, we joined a regional tournament in the middle of the year for fun and practice playing against other teams in the greater Montreal region.   St Lazare, our nemesis wasnt at this particular tournament.  We won bronze at this tourney as well.

 

In 2017, a year prior, we were in that same tournament. We won bronze.   For 2 years straight, we earned 4 bronze medals. 2  in small tournaments and 2 in the end of year bashes.  

In the middle of the year smaller tournaments, thee softball teams travel to the hosting regions area and play against otheer teams that have joined.  

In the end of year tournaments, you play against thee teams in your region, win gold in those  and earn the right to play the Provincials. Against other Gold winning teams from other regions of your Province.  (you might play against a team or two if you happened to join a mid-season tournament and that particular team was there as well...)

win that tournament and play in the Nationals against other Canadian softball teams. 

And I guess this is how Canada's women's national softball team is recruited.  

Our league is one step below the A players.  My daughter could make the A league, but she, and her mother and I, collectively agree that its too much softball and our focus is on schooling.  If only Canada was like the US and offered sports scholarships in Universities....

I would have LOVED if my daughter (and she too wouldnt have minded) if she would have played for University of Michigan...for an example.

We watch Big 10 women's softball games and tournaments all the time.  We discuss things.    Academics. And why THAT is soooo important.  Sports and necessary, but if we are NOT blessed with natural athletic ability, schooling is a far better avenue for a career.  And even IF blessed with natural athletic ability, schooling is necessary for a number of things...   Dumb as a doorknob is NOT a way to live one's life...

I played baseball when I was young, and I have showed both my son and daughter MY tricks. But, its always beneficial to watch how other athletes play the sport.  Instead of "paying" a mentor or so called coach to "teach",  sports on the TV offer a GREAT way to learn... 

I coudnt make any of my kids watch MLB on TV, but with the Big 10 women's softball, my daughter found a connection looking at other girls play fastpitch softball. 

And I must admit, I enjoy fastpitch ball over those pro MLB games as well!!!   Less drama over unwritten rules and blown strike calls...  

If as a pro baseball player you KNOW the umpire will call a strike, just phoquing swing at the ball and hit it!!!  

If you as a multi-million dollar pro baseball player has a hard time hitting a particular pitch to which an umpire will call a strike on, even though it might BE a ball, just phoquing go to a batting cage and practice hitting those same pitches....

If as a pitcher you whine because of a bat flip or a trot because he hit a homerun off you, suck it up!!!  Learn how NOT to throw cheeseballs so the hitters dont hit homeruns off of you...  

PS:  100+  MPH  on a fastball and the ball will travel far...  Especially when hitting today is all ABOUT the longball.  Every swing is a homerun swing nowadays...   Besides, if a batter connects with a 100+ MPH fastball, JUST connects with it.....its a feat in of itself.  He hits a dinger with it, he DESERVES a little celebration.  Learn to adapt to hitters being ABLE to hit 100+ MPH pitches and become THAT much better.   MLB has become such a whiny phoquing league...  women's fastpitch softball is sooooo much better and entertaining...

[oldshurst442]

@Robert Hall

 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

Happiest of Birthdays to you @Robert Hall!

[trinacriabob]

On 6/23/2022 at 9:28 AM, ccap41 said:

 

 

Unusual grille with the 45 degree angles ... and I didn't look up the word "frunk." 

However, since I tend to make comments about how tidy and organized engine bays are, this one (and I'm not that familiar with EVs) takes the cake. 

[G. David Felt]

Happy Birthday Robert, hope you had a great day!

?

[ccap41]

12 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

Unusual grille with the 45 degree angles ... and I didn't look up the word "frunk." 

However, since I tend to make comments about how tidy and organized engine bays are, this one (and I'm not that familiar with EVs) takes the cake. 

Yeah, but, it should have had a frunk there instead of a clean "engine bay". 

[Robert Hall]

16 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, but, it should have had a frunk there instead of a clean "engine bay". 

I guess for packaging reasons they couldn't have a frunk but had to put powertrain thingys there...

[ccap41]

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I guess for packaging reasons they couldn't have a frunk but had to put powertrain thingys there...

If Tesla can with their entire lineup and Ford with the Mach-E, I don't see a reason their packaging necessitates the extra space.  

[Robert Hall]

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

If Tesla can with their entire lineup and Ford with the Mach-E, I don't see a reason their packaging necessitates the extra space.  

Different companies, different approaches to EV platforms...

[ccap41]

9 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Different companies, different approaches to EV platforms...

Yeah, one seems like a mistake... 

Any EV that isn't taking advantage of the lack of an ICE and making frunk, seems like a mistake, imo. 

I can understand on vehicles the size of a Bolt and Leaf, as there really isn't much of a hood area to begin with. They're small vehicles. 

[oldshurst442]

Lack of a frunk in the Lyriq for me, not necessarily looks like a mistake.  I dont feel like it might be a mistake.  A lost opportunity to offer a tad more storage space is how I would classify it rather than it being aa mistake.

Because I reserve my opinion to see how GM's Ultium platform is engineered and utilized. 

Yes, there is free space up there in the front.  If GM engineered it for the use for powertrain bits, computing ECUs, electrical harnesses  or whatnot instead of cramming those where the batteries are and limiting cooling hardware and other stuff limiting the cooling space for batteries, then Id say a job well done for GM engineering.  

Batteries, with what Ive read on them, need space and hardware to properly cool.  All others cram all kinds of stuff in that batteerry space just to have a frunk.  That is one solution that benefits the consumer for storage. But if cooling is not adequate, then it takes away from that advantage and becomes a disadvantage in another way in some form or other.

If GM managed to have their batteries perform better than Ford or Tesla because they took away the consumer's advantage for a frunk, but gave the consumers a better performing battery, then the consumer has that as an advantage.

Remember, batteries do catch on fire after and insufficient cooling might actual be a cause regardless how good Tesla cools their batteries....or anybody else's battery tech...

Including GM's Bolt.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/22/tesla-fire-sacramento/

Maybe GM and LG have learned a lesson and maybe this is a solution?  

I dont know as I dont know how GM uses the frunk space for the Lyriq.    I itching to learn more about it though.  Would be interesing to know why the Hummer EV has a frunk and the Lyrriq does not.  Is it because the Hummer has an abundance of space underneath where thee batteries go and the Lyriq is best engineered to use the frunk space instead?  

[oldshurst442]

Ive read that the Lyriq has a 5 link suspension system front and back.  Maybe that suspension set-up limits the space for the Lyriq?

[Robert Hall]

10 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Lack of a frunk in the Lyriq for me, not necessarily looks like a mistake.  I dont feel like it might be a mistake.  A lost opportunity to offer a tad more storage space is how I would classify it rather than it being aa mistake.

Because I reserve my opinion to see how GM's Ultium platform is engineered and utilized. 

Yes, there is free space up there in the front.  If GM engineered it for the use for powertrain bits, computing ECUs, electrical harnesses  or whatnot instead of cramming those where the batteries are and limiting cooling hardware and other stuff limiting the cooling space for batteries, then Id say a job well done for GM engineering.  

Batteries, with what Ive read on them, need space and hardware to properly cool.  All others cram all kinds of stuff in that batteerry space just to have a frunk.  That is one solution that benefits the consumer for storage. But if cooling is not adequate, then it takes away from that advantage and becomes a disadvantage in another way in some form or other.

If GM managed to have their batteries perform better than Ford or Tesla because they took away the consumer's advantage for a frunk, but gave the consumers a better performing battery, then the consumer has that as an advantage.

Remember, batteries do catch on fire after and insufficient cooling might actual be a cause regardless how good Tesla cools their batteries....or anybody else's battery tech...

Including GM's Bolt.  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/22/tesla-fire-sacramento/

Maybe GM and LG have learned a lesson and maybe this is a solution?  

I dont know as I dont know how GM uses the frunk space for the Lyriq.    I itching to learn more about it though.  Would be interesing to know why the Hummer EV has a frunk and the Lyrriq does not.  Is it because the Hummer has an abundance of space underneath where thee batteries go and the Lyriq is best engineered to use the frunk space instead?  

Hummer EV (and Silverado EV) are much bigger and truckular...so they have a lot more space underneath for the dirty bits.   The Lyriq isn't a high riding 4x4, so it has to use space for the electric motor(s), power brake system, HVAC, radiator, etc under the hood...

[ccap41]

3 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Lack of a frunk in the Lyriq for me, not necessarily looks like a mistake.  I dont feel like it might be a mistake.  A lost opportunity to offer a tad more storage space is how I would classify it rather than it being aa mistake.

That's probably a better worded way to put it. It's a missed opportunity. 

4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yes, there is free space up there in the front.  If GM engineered it for the use for powertrain bits, computing ECUs, electrical harnesses  or whatnot instead of cramming those where the batteries are and limiting cooling hardware and other stuff limiting the cooling space for batteries, then Id say a job well done for GM engineering.  

Batteries, with what Ive read on them, need space and hardware to properly cool.  All others cram all kinds of stuff in that batteerry space just to have a frunk.  That is one solution that benefits the consumer for storage. But if cooling is not adequate, then it takes away from that advantage and becomes a disadvantage in another way in some form or other.

They're all liquid cooled at this point and I can't imagine Ford and Tesla are having battery cooling issues, at least I haven't heard of any yet and I've watched a fair amount on the Mach-E and know somebody with a pair of Teslas in Nevada. 

33 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Remember, batteries do catch on fire after and insufficient cooling might actual be a cause regardless how good Tesla cools their batteries....or anybody else's battery tech...

I don't believe lack of cooling has ever been a factor in an EV catching fire. It's always something shorting and sparking with poor connection(s) somewhere. 

34 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I dont know as I dont know how GM uses the frunk space for the Lyriq.    I itching to learn more about it though.  Would be interesing to know why the Hummer EV has a frunk and the Lyrriq does not.  Is it because the Hummer has an abundance of space underneath where thee batteries go and the Lyriq is best engineered to use the frunk space instead?  

I'd also like to learn why. They have to have a good justification, I know they're not a bunch of idiots who "didn't think of it".  I just don't want the press release answer of "we needed the space for packaging". 

[ccap41]

Lyriq Chief Engineer, Jamie Brewer, recently explained to GM Authority that the team decided to prioritize rear cargo space over two separate cargo areas.

Thus, the 2023 Cadillac Lyriq will have a larger traditional rear storage area. In fact, according to Brewer, that enables the Lyriq to boast the “largest cargo volume in its competitive set.”

That made us wonder what, exactly, is the Lyriq’s competitive set. According to Cadillac spokesperson, Katie Minter, it consists of the Audi e-tron and Jaguar I-Pace.

“Lyriq is aimed at customers that are looking for a luxury SUV with outstanding styling, ride and handling and seamlessly integrated technology. In this instance, we’re looking at vehicles such as the Audi e-tron and Jaguar I-Pace,” Minter told GM Authority in an emailed statement.

So then, Lyriq has a maximum cargo volume of 60.8 cubic feet behind the first row seats and 28.0 cubic feet behind the second row. When compared to the Audi e-tron and the Jaguar I-Pace, the Lyriq does offer more space in the back.

2023 Cadillac Lyriq Cargo vs. e-tron I-Pace

	Cadillac Lyriq	Audi e-tron	Jaguar I-Pace
Rear cargo volume behind second row (cu. ft.)	28.0	28.5	25.3
Rear cargo volume behind first row (cu. ft.)	60.8	56.5	51.0
Frunk cargo volume (cu. ft.)	N/A	2.12	0.95
Total front & rear cargo volume (cu. ft.)*	28.0	30.62	26.25

* With second row seats upright

However, both the e-tron and the I-Pace feature frunks (2.12 cubic feet in the e-tron, 0.95 cubic feet in the I-Pace respectively), allowing the e-tron to have slightly more total cargo volume (combined frunk and rear cargo area).

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/05/heres-why-the-2023-cadillac-lyriq-doesnt-have-a-frunk/

 

[oldshurst442]

At 2.12 and 0.95 cu.ft for the Audi and Jag's frunk respectfully is a non-issue for the Lyriq not having a frunk.

Maximizing the back trunk space as what the GM guys are saying for the Lyriq and the reason why they did it that way by-passing the need for a frunk sounds like marketing BS, until you realize that Audi and Jag's frunk space is nonexistent...   To which GM's words then kinda make sense as the Lyriq does in fact offer more room back there.  

Frunk space is kinda expected though, for EVs, so there is that...

Tesla Model X for a comparison as Tesla is the benchmark....

 

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-91E5877F-3CD2-4B3B-B2B8-B5DB4A6C0A05.html

 

 

Cargo Volume

Table 1. 5-Seater Cargo Volumes

Area	Volume (liters)	Volume (cubic ft)
Front trunk	183	6.5
Behind first row, second row folded flat	2,410	85.1
Behind second row	1,050	37.1
Maximum total cargo volume with driver and front passenger	2,593	91.6
Maximum total cargo volume with 5 passengers	1,233	43.5

Table 2. 6-Seater Cargo Volumes

Area	Volume (liters)	Volume (cubic ft)
Front trunk	183	6.5
Behind first row, second row in max cargo position, third row folded flat	2,431	85.8
Behind second row, third row folded flat	935	33
Behind third row	425	15
Maximum total cargo volume with driver and front passenger	2,614	92.3
Maximum total cargo volume with 6 passengers	608	21.5

Table 3. 7-Seater Cargo Volumes

Area	Volume (liters)	Volume (cubic ft)
Front trunk	183	6.5
Behind first row, second row folded flat	2,314	81.7
Behind second row, third row folded flat	957	33.8
Behind third row	425	15
Maximum total cargo volume with driver and front passenger	2,497	88.2
Maximum total cargo volume with 7 passengers	608	21.5

 

 

 

The Lyriq's cargo space is plentiful and it would seem like an engineering choice to favour rear space over the use of a frunk. 

Is it a sound engineering choice?

Possibly yes as the powertrain bits need not be crammed.  

Is it a sound MARKETING choice?

Time will tell as many folk really dont understand engineering choices all to well...   Nor do they seem to care.  If they want a frunk, they WANT a phoquing frunk... 

[ccap41]

33 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

At 2.12 and 0.95 cu.ft for the Audi and Jag's frunk respectfully is a non-issue for the Lyriq not having a frunk.

Maximizing the back trunk space as what the GM guys are saying for the Lyriq and the reason why they did it that way by-passing the need for a frunk sounds like marketing BS, until you realize that Audi and Jag's frunk space is nonexistent...   To which GM's words then kinda make sense as the Lyriq does in fact offer more room back there.  

Frunk space is kinda expected though, for EVs, so there is that...

Tesla Model X for a comparison as Tesla is the benchmark....

 

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-91E5877F-3CD2-4B3B-B2B8-B5DB4A6C0A05.html

 

 

Cargo Volume

Table 1. 5-Seater Cargo Volumes

Area	Volume (liters)	Volume (cubic ft)
Front trunk	183	6.5
Behind first row, second row folded flat	2,410	85.1
Behind second row	1,050	37.1
Maximum total cargo volume with driver and front passenger	2,593	91.6
Maximum total cargo volume with 5 passengers	1,233	43.5

Table 2. 6-Seater Cargo Volumes

Area	Volume (liters)	Volume (cubic ft)
Front trunk	183	6.5
Behind first row, second row in max cargo position, third row folded flat	2,431	85.8
Behind second row, third row folded flat	935	33
Behind third row	425	15
Maximum total cargo volume with driver and front passenger	2,614	92.3
Maximum total cargo volume with 6 passengers	608	21.5

Table 3. 7-Seater Cargo Volumes

Area	Volume (liters)	Volume (cubic ft)
Front trunk	183	6.5
Behind first row, second row folded flat	2,314	81.7
Behind second row, third row folded flat	957	33.8
Behind third row	425	15
Maximum total cargo volume with driver and front passenger	2,497	88.2
Maximum total cargo volume with 7 passengers	608	21.5

 

 

 

The Lyriq's cargo space is plentiful and it would seem like an engineering choice to favour rear space over the use of a frunk. 

Is it a sound engineering choice?

Possibly yes as the powertrain bits need not be crammed.  

Is it a sound MARKETING choice?

Time will tell as many folk really dont understand engineering choices all to well...   Nor do they seem to care.  If they want a frunk, they WANT a phoquing frunk... 

Thanks for the information.

The Model X seems to have an abundance of space, everywhere. 

The Lyriq just seems to have such a large "engine bay" that could/should still be able to have at least 2 cubic feet of space available. It isn't like their rear cargo space is THAT much larger than what they chose to compare it to. 

It's a perfectly fine vehicle and the lack of a small frunk wouldn't stop me, it's just a little disappointing it doesn't have one when I feel like they could have engineered one in and still had a large boot. 

[oldshurst442]

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The Model X seems to have an abundance of space, everywhere.

How did their engineers find a way to offer both with great space?

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The Lyriq just seems to have such a large "engine bay" that could/should still be able to have at least 2 cubic feet

It is a large 'engine bay'.  At this point, even if I said that 2 cu.ft is nonexistent, if the Audi could offer a frunk that size, Cadillac should have done the same.  I have realized that  people associate EVs with frunks and this is why you and I (and I think @David too) might criticize Cadillac for a missed opportunity with the Lyric.   

Forget about Silverados and Hummers, they gave the mid-engine Corvette a trunk and frunk when a mid-engined supercar, even as a Corvette, could have forgone a frunk, but they KNEW it would benefit Corvette because people EXPECT storage space in a Corvette.    GM missed the part that people ALSO expect frunks in EVs...  ESPECIALLY in the market that the Lyriq resides in. 

26 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

it's just a little disappointing

yeah......that would be the proper wording.

Its not a big deal by ANY means.  Just disappointing. 

[Drew Dowdell]

This is why.

And that front unit is just the power module. There's still all of the parts for HVAC, steering, accessories, washers, etc to account for. In a vehicle as large as the Hummer EV or EValanche, there is probably enough space up there for the frunk, but in smaller vehicles it's probably not enough to bother.

[ccap41]

27 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

And that front unit is just the power module. There's still all of the parts for HVAC, steering, accessories, washers, etc to account for. In a vehicle as large as the Hummer EV or EValanche, there is probably enough space up there for the frunk, but in smaller vehicles it's probably not enough to bother.

Tesla and Ford have very usable front trunks and even Audi's 2+ cubic feet is very useful. Tesla and Ford's are even on much smaller vehicles. 

[Drew Dowdell]

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Tesla and Ford have very usable front trunks and even Audi's 2+ cubic feet is very useful. Tesla and Ford's are even on much smaller vehicles. 

*shrug*  There must be a tradeoff somewhere.  Hyundai/Kia/Genesis, Mercedes EQ, and VW MEB platforms all seem to forgo frunks too.

[ccap41]

9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

*shrug*  There must be a tradeoff somewhere.  Hyundai/Kia/Genesis, Mercedes EQ, and VW MEB platforms all seem to forgo frunks too.

And I feel like all of those companies are missing out on a good opportunity. 

 

47 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

This is why.

Nothing significantly different than this. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by ccap41

[surreal1272]

29 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

*shrug*  There must be a tradeoff somewhere.  Hyundai/Kia/Genesis, Mercedes EQ, and VW MEB platforms all seem to forgo frunks too.

It is a huge shrug. The competition, Audi E-Tron and Jaguar I-Pace have 2.12 and 0.95 of cubic space in their frunk respectively while having LESS overall cargo room with all the seats down. Sorry but they are not losing much on the frunk when you see this paltry numbers from the competition. What is going to go in that small frank that can't just go inside the car to begin with? Frunks are far more useful for the pick-up crowd IMO.

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

they gave the mid-engine Corvette a trunk and frunk when a mid-engined supercar, even as a Corvette

The Vette needed all the extra storage space it could get whereas the Lyriq is not suffering at all for lacking due to having far more cargo room inside.

[G. David Felt]

5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, but, it should have had a frunk there instead of a clean "engine bay". 

We do not know what the reason was, but clearly compared to the pathetic FRUNK on Tesla that can barely hold a small backpack, Tesla was cool as the first, but now just a has-been as Mach-E has a superior FRUNK as does the F-150 Lighting and GMC Hummer.

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

The Model X seems to have an abundance of space, everywhere. 

I will have to totally disagree with you on this as one that has taken the time to test a Model X and found it FAILING in so many ways.

Failed with the extreme windshield rake just like Mazda, you hit your head trying to get in and this is not just my 6'6" size, but my 5'8" tall wife find it a problem too.

Interior space even for my wife was tight and not spacious.

Failure as NO ONE can sit behind a big person like me and leg space was still tight even behind my wife. 

Roof Rake on the rear is a failure for many EVs just not tesla as it eats up interior space and Tesla is not that spacious. Especially if you get their 3rd seat that is a kids jumper seat, you lose more interior space.

IMHO

[ccap41]

13 minutes ago, David said:

We do not know what the reason was, but clearly compared to the pathetic FRUNK on Tesla that can barely hold a small backpack, Tesla was cool as the first, but now just a has-been as Mach-E has a superior FRUNK as does the F-150 Lighting and GMC Hummer.

As noted by @oldshurst442, 6.5 cubic feet isn't small by any means.  A Malibu has 15.7 cubic feet, for reference. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Hyundai/Kia and soon Genesis are the fastest growing in EV sales right now... so the market is shrugging too.

I think people are so used to buying a car of a certain size with no frunk, that it's not a big deal. It's a novelty more than anything else below something like the Lighting or EValanche which actually have useful spaces.

If you currently own a gas Kia Niro, you're not going to be put off that the Kia EV6 doesn't have a frunk and go running to a Tesla instead.

The trucks I could actually put my electric lawnmower in the front, so that's pretty useful. 

[ccap41]

2 minutes ago, David said:

I will have to totally disagree with you on this as one that has taken the time to test a Model X and found it FAILING in so many ways.

Failed with the extreme windshield rake just like Mazda, you hit your head trying to get in and this is not just my 6'6" size, but my 5'8" tall wife find it a problem too.

Interior space even for my wife was tight and not spacious.

Failure as NO ONE can sit behind a big person like me and leg space was still tight even behind my wife. 

Roof Rake on the rear is a failure for many EVs just not tesla as it eats up interior space and Tesla is not that spacious. Especially if you get their 3rd seat that is a kids jumper seat, you lose more interior space.

IMHO

Then you'll likely be calling the Lyriq a failure as well then.  No chance it will be significantly larger than a Model X. 

 

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Hyundai/Kia and soon Genesis are the fastest growing in EV sales right now... so the market is shrugging too.

I think people are so used to buying a car of a certain size with no frunk, that it's not a big deal. It's a novelty more than anything else below something like the Lighting or EValanche which actually have useful spaces.

If you currently own a gas Kia Niro, you're not going to be put off that the Kia EV6 doesn't have a frunk and go running to a Tesla instead.

I mean, not everybody has Tesla money so there's that as well. The MachE isn't exactly the model example of dollars per space either. 

It's just a missed opportunity and looks lazy, IMO. 

[surreal1272]

While folks are trying to bring up the Model X, it should be noted it also starts at TWICE the starting price of the Lyriq. Something about comparing apples to apples comes to mind here. The Model X also has next to NO cargo space if you are utilizing ALL three rows of seating. Your going to need that frunk if you are carrying seven in that thing.

 

 

And, about the Mach-E, they wasted the frunk space in it completely.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by surreal1272

[G. David Felt]

58 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Tesla and Ford have very usable front trunks and even Audi's 2+ cubic feet is very useful. Tesla and Ford's are even on much smaller vehicles. 

Measurements are just that measurements and do not actually attest to the interior space and comfort. We have all seen seats that say they support X, Y and Z sizes but reviews talk about how tight, pinching and uncomfortable the seats are.

Tesla is in this boat, they state certain measurements, but in reality, it fails to live up to the real-world use.

I agree with @oldshurst442 and @ccap41 that the Frunk is a missed marketing opportunity. If it was this way on full size EV especially the Trucks/SUVs, then that would be a major failure. On mid-size, Compact and Sub-compact EVs, I would say it was a smart thing to go with interior space over a small frunk.

Tesla 3 & Y FRUNK sizes = 28 inches wide x 15.5 inches long and 8 inches deep. That is pretty much a couple bags of groceries or a very small suitcase. That space inside would add to the spaciousness of the auto and comfort of the people along with bigger storage in the back.

I do not see value in those tiny Frunks.

Ford Mach-E Frunk = 4.8 cubic feet of space, that is noticeable. Yet think if this was interior space in the back for larger cargo.

Yes, the Mach-E Frunk is cool especially when you tailgate, camp, picnic, etc. Yet I am sure there are some that would also like that cargo space on the inside.

Engineering tradeoffs.

[G. David Felt]

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Then you'll likely be calling the Lyriq a failure as well then.  No chance it will be significantly larger than a Model X. 

It's just a missed opportunity and looks lazy, IMO. 

Possibly until I can actually sit in one and judge for myself if it is or not. Considering some of the early by the paper numbers of comparisons the Lyriq will do well against a Model X. Compare Cadillac Lyriq vs Tesla Model X | CarBuzz

I can say this, the Lyriq has considerably more leg room and that is a need for me.

[ccap41]

9 minutes ago, David said:

Tesla 3 & Y FRUNK sizes = 28 inches wide x 15.5 inches long and 8 inches deep. That is pretty much a couple bags of groceries or a very small suitcase. That space inside would add to the spaciousness of the auto and comfort of the people along with bigger storage in the back.

I do not see value in those tiny Frunks.

Ford Mach-E Frunk = 4.8 cubic feet of space, that is noticeable. Yet think if this was interior space in the back for larger cargo.

4.1 VS 4.8 cubic feet. 

2 minutes ago, David said:

I can say this, the Lyriq has considerably more leg room and that is a need for me.

How can you say this? 

[G. David Felt]

I will say that the numbers I see quoted for the Tesla X Cargo are off as in reality, those numbers just do not add up in that jelly bean shape especially the Identical cargo space for seat 3 and 2.

Just looked and I see like the Chevrolet BOLT, Tesla added in the last couple of years dropped space behind a level floor to give it that space. Other wise that cargo space is like half the size stated due to the rook rake.

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

4.1 VS 4.8 cubic feet. 

How can you say this? 

Easy, paper shows almost 4 inches more room. If we take the approach you seem to have taken saying the Tesla X is roomy, then the LYRIQ should be even more roomy due to the added leg space.

Again, I am an exception and as I have always stated, have to test fit myself in an auto first.

Is the LYRIQ a Hit for Cadillac? On pre-sales yes, but for me who knows till I can do what I did with the Tesla X, try it. Iwas excited to buy a Tesla X till I tested it and it failed in so many ways for me. As such, I will wait and see about the LYRIQ and other EVs.

Seems the new standard to beat is the Hyundai/KIA twins as they are selling like hot cakes and the reviews seem to love them over Tesla.

[oldshurst442]

30 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Frunks are far more useful for the pick-up crowd IMO.

Hello?  Its a CUV....   CUVs are for hauling family oriented stuff....  

32 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

The Vette needed all the extra storage space it could get whereas the Lyriq is not suffering at all for lacking due to having far more cargo room inside.

Hello?

Its a sports car.  Its PRIMARY job description is to go fast EVEN as a daily driver.  The Corvette offers storage as compared to its competition because it also doubles as a GT car.  But even as a GT car, its come to be a personality trait to have storage space, but THAT is the SAME kind of trait that a Corvette SHARES with CUVs and ESPECIALLY EVs.  A frunk is EXPECTED...

And the Tesla Model X's price range being higher has NOTHING to do with it. 

Its a CADILLAC wee are talking about.  You know

 

STANDARD OF THE WORLD no matter what price range we are talking about.

But if you want same price range on a very smaller vehicle.  Here it goes.  

Tesla STILL being the benchmark

The Model Y

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-E47C4A6D-528E-419C-8C57-FD3864644C34.html

Cargo Volume

Model Y with 5 Seats:

Front trunk	4.1 cu ft (117 L)
Behind first row, second row seats folded	72.1 cu ft (2041 L)
Behind second row, seats not folded	30.2 cu ft (854 L)
Maximum total cargo volume with driver and front passenger	76.2 cu ft (2158 L)
Maximum total cargo volume with 5 passengers	34.3 cu ft (971 L)

Model Y with 7 Seats:

Front trunk	4.1 cu ft (117 L)
Behind first row, second and third row seats folded	67.9 cu ft (1923 L)
Behind second row, third row seats folded	26.6 cu ft (753 L)
Behind third row	12.8 cu ft (363 L)
Maximum total cargo volume with driver and front passenger	72 cu ft (2040 L)
Maximum total cargo volume with 7 passengers	17 cu ft (480 L)

[oldshurst442]

And for God's sake @David

There arent many vehicles that will accomodate you bro.  You are 6 feet 6 inches tall with a bodybuilder's build..  

We have discussed this.... YOU  are NOT the metric to go by for interior space...

Have you been to Japan?

I havent. 

But Ive read that Japanese apartments are TINY...

 

Are you gonna say Japan sucks because YOU will NOT fit inside some of Tokyo's space efficient apartments?

Stop it already with your constant need to prove interior space performance using your metrics as a standard.  Its not a good argument from you...

 

[oldshurst442]

34 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

While folks are trying to bring up the Model X, it should be noted it also starts at TWICE the starting price of the Lyriq. Something about comparing apples to apples comes to mind here. The Model X also has next to NO cargo space if you are utilizing ALL three rows of seating. Your going to need that frunk if you are carrying seven in that thing.

 

 

And, about the Mach-E, they wasted the frunk space in it completely.

 

 

 

And about that Ford frunk.

One could store windshield wiper fluid and some useful roadside tools  like a first aid kit and a couple of screwdrivers and a foldable shovel or whatever leaving the back trunk free from storing that.   I know I could store my windshield washer fluid and my baseball glove in that Mach E frunk along with maybe a few loose baseballs and softballs. Maybe switch up the balls with me keeping miscellaneous papers that contain notes and reminders for softball or thee restaurant itself...   

Point being....a frunk IS useful.. 

Now I know the Lyriq uses a nice storage bin UNDERNEATH the trunk's floor.  Still though, it be nice if it had a frunk.

This is all @ccap41and myself are saying.... 

@ccap41 said it CLEARLY its NOT a deal breaker for him for not having a frunk.

I, on the other hand, could clearly not give a shyte as its a CUV to begin with and Im NOT a buyer of this vehicle with or without a frunk.   

However, if this was a sedan, and it wouldnt have a frunk, Id be saying the same thing as I am for it as a CUV.

 

 

 

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Hyundai/Kia and soon Genesis are the fastest growing in EV sales right now... so the market is shrugging too.

I think people are so used to buying a car of a certain size with no frunk, that it's not a big deal. It's a novelty more than anything else below something like the Lighting or EValanche which actually have useful spaces.

If you currently own a gas Kia Niro, you're not going to be put off that the Kia EV6 doesn't have a frunk and go running to a Tesla instead.

The trucks I could actually put my electric lawnmower in the front, so that's pretty useful. 

@ccap41 and myself have not made a big deal out of it. 

However, I dont think its a novelty thing.  Its not a deal breaker and it will probably NOT be a deal breaker either for other folk...

However, if GM puts frunks in their other CUV offerings, then it ABSOLUTELY becomes a missed opportunity for the Lyriq to NOT have a frunk.

Ive never had a frunk in m life.  My ex partner had one in his Model S so I have witnessed what a frunk can do.  He used the frunk in his Model S as his briefcase storage. That briefcase and other smaller plastic containers contained  not so important papers regarding  restaurant information and small objects. Instead of throwing that stuff in the backseat or trunk like I do, he opened  up the frunk and in went these restaurant papers and equipment handles and chair nuts and bolts etc... 

I got that shyte in my trunk and then I lug it in and out of my trunk when I need my trunk space for baseball/softball equipment.   No big deal as I can cope with it. But a frunk IS useful... no matter how big or small it may be.  It can separate mundane things to bee NOT in the way to haul other shyte in the back trunk is alls Im saying. 

And if Mercedes will not offer a frunk, like Cadillac's slogan 'standard of the world' , Mercedes' "engineered like no other" falls waaaaaaay flat... 

And THAT is the full octane truth.    

(I could now be an internet blogger/flogger youtuber because I have an opinion....      and maybe I could now monetize this opinion. Maybe do a tik tok thing or an Onlyfans and show clips of me in my skivvies and possibly become rich and famous and a sex symbol of some sorts)  

Edited June 29, 2022 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

A whole page of “it’s not really a big deal”. 
 

mmmkay folks. 

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Hello?  Its a CUV....   CUVs are for hauling family oriented stuff....  

Hello? Please read my entire post regarding useful space and why some EVs need the frunk and some don’t. 
 

The Vette part isn’t even worth a response because you have misread that too. 
 

But hey, it’s not a big deal lol. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, David said:

 

I will say that the numbers I see quoted for the Tesla X Cargo are off as in reality, those numbers just do not add up in that jelly bean shape especially the Identical cargo space for seat 3 and 2

 

I am wondering where the X gets 30 extra cubic feet myself being that it’s basic dimensions are similar to the Lyriq. Something literally doesn’t add up. 

[oldshurst442]

14 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

A whole page of “it’s not really a big deal”. 
 

mmmkay folks. 

Hello? Please read my entire post regarding useful space and why some EVs need the frunk and some don’t. 
 

But hey, it’s not a big deal lol. 

That would be you making a big deal out of both @ccap41 and my opinion on the matter.

3-4 posts in  and we both came to a conclusion that it really is no big deal BEFORE you and @Drew Dowdell came in being all defensive...

Go ahead and read the posts again.

And the C8 (Z06) Corvette really does NOT need a frunk.  Id be much happier as a Corvette fan if Chevy ditched the frunk AND trunk for a specialized, VERY track focused version of a Z06 to REALLY squash the Porsche 911 GT2 RS in track racing. 

But hey, lets have a frunk in a Z06 Corvette where the Z06 is about track racing but NOT in Cadillac's FIRST EV CUV...  

yeah...no biggie regarding marketing issues.....

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

5 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

That would be you making a big deal out of both @ccap41 and my opinion on the matter.

Prior to this, three posts from me on the subject with over a half dozen each from you and him but whatever you say there Olds. I have literally said it was not a big deal and there is literally nothing defensive about that. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, David said:

Easy, paper shows almost 4 inches more room.

You literally just said you cannot take paper numbers because you've sat in things that aren't as roomy as the numbers would suggest. 

But the Lyriq is an anomaly? 

[ccap41]

2 hours ago, David said:

I will have to totally disagree with you on this as one that has taken the time to test a Model X and found it FAILING in so many ways.

Failed with the extreme windshield rake just like Mazda, you hit your head trying to get in and this is not just my 6'6" size, but my 5'8" tall wife find it a problem too.

Interior space even for my wife was tight and not spacious.

Failure as NO ONE can sit behind a big person like me and leg space was still tight even behind my wife. 

Roof Rake on the rear is a failure for many EVs just not tesla as it eats up interior space and Tesla is not that spacious. Especially if you get their 3rd seat that is a kids jumper seat, you lose more interior space.

You did notice the differences in headroom between the X and Lyriq, right? One has much more leg room but the other had much more head room. 

3+ inches more headroom in front and 3+ inches more headroom in back, per your pictures.

The 3rd row seat in the Model X is a joke and it certainly feels like they did it just to say they could. 

[Drew Dowdell]

@oldshurst442 I wasn’t being defensive, I was simply offering an explanation for the lack of frunk.

I just don’t think frunks matter to most people in this class.  People just aren’t filling luxury crossovers with sand.  As with my other analogy, if you’re coming from and XT6/X5/GLE, you’re not going to run away from the Lyriq to a Model X for lack of a frunk. If you’re already in the Cadillac dealership, you’re there for the superior looks anyway.

[oldshurst442]

@Drew Dowdell

Gotcha.

There is one no in my response to that.  Just a single no to a single statement.

To this:

54 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

if you’re coming from and XT6/X5/GLE, you’re not going to run away from the Lyriq to a Model X for lack of a frunk. If you’re already in the Cadillac dealership, you’re there for the superior looks anyway.

 

Cadillac needs to look farther than just customers coming from XT6/X5/GLE.   

Cadillac needs to steal customers away from Tesla.  

Customers from Tesla WILL look at the Lyriq regardless if they are hardcore Tesla fanboys.    The curiosity factor always kicks in.  And if they bought a Tesla or two or  three in their lifetime and were satisfied with Tesla, maybe they are getting tired of that Tesla jellybean look.  Superior looks from a Lyriq however will probably wont be enough to steal them away.  Superior tech will....  But maybe, just maybe, a lack of a frunk for the Lyriq would be a missed opportunity for Cadillac to steal a customer away from a Tesla customer.   Because Tesla tech is still the benchmark.  Tesla's tech could still be better than Ultium. We dont know yet just how good Ultium is.   And if Ultium just happens to be better than Tesla tech, it wont be by much and maybe a frunk could very well be that deal breaker...   

I agree that the Lyriq is a very good looking luxury CUV. It gets it done on the outside with its looks and body panels fitting properly.  GM hasnt had that problem getting the panels to fit for a loooong time now.  But it also gets it done on the inside.  But Tesla sheeple dont care for that.  Its all about the tech for them and the quirks that Telsa gets right for them. And a frunk is such a "quirk". 

I am of the opinion that I just arrived to today with this conversation we are having, that  folk that have gotten used to a frunk, will probably still want a frunk. True that if you dont know what a frunk does, you wont be missing something that you have never experienced but you have to possibly give them a frunk if they are used to one.   Aiming at XT6/X5/GLE customers is truly not setting the bar that high concerning EV sales...   If GM wants a big pie, they have to look at what Tesla gets right in this segment.  

If all is equal between the Lyriq and Tesla products, Tesla sheeple will not be enticed to leave Tesla no matter how good looking and better build quality the Lyriq WILL be.    Tesla sheeple dont look at that anyway. They dismiss it.  Just as they will dismiss something as mundane as a frunk. 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

 

[trinacriabob]

Without looking it up and by scrolling through all these examples, I'm guessing a "frunk" is a "front trunk?"

- - - - -

I lean toward minimalist, but I do hang on to paper items - maps, articles, in flight magazines, real estate flyers and magazines, brochures, and such that I thought were neat-o at one time or another.  I've got quite a pile.  I haven't gone through it in about 5 years.  I'm sorting it, thinning it down, and figuring out what I might scan.

A rule of thumb I once heard is really coming into play:

If you don't look at it at least once a year, throw it away*

* probably not important documents, though

[Drew Dowdell]

Tesla only moves 999,000 vehicles globally each year. 
 

The people who want a Tesla crossover are getting them. It’s the people who don’t like Teslas (like me) that Cadillac needs to target. Cadillac needs to be the anti-Tesla EV builder. The EV for people who think Teslas are ugly and not very luxurious. 
 

Admittedly, Genesis is getting there first with the GV60, but if the Lyriq base price holds, it is a much larger and more luxurious car for just a few thousand more than the GV60. ($62k v. $58k base price)

The Lyriq is also an entire Hyundai Ioniq 5 cheaper than a Model X, so it’s sorta like @smk4565 comparing the XTS to the S-Class. And comparing the Lyriq to the Model Y is like comparing an X5 to a Rogue in terms of luxury feel.

[trinacriabob]

What are considered the top 3 or 3 most popular (storage) clouds?

Any opinions or links to a diluted tech article on this topic?  

Thanks.