Random Thoughts Thread

[oldshurst442]

14 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I agree 1000% about Nirvana. Vastly overrated. And it wasn’t taken as being serious Olds. Just pointing it out that Seattle was known for more than grunge at one point. 

Well of course because those are much larger population hubs with longer histories than Seattle. For a city it’s size though, it has supplied some pretty damn good music. 

A LOT of musical genius came out of Seattle.  Im very impressed by that. 

Im not so impressed by all that rain. But then again, Ive NEVER been that way, so what the hell do I know about being Sleepless in Seattle (pop culture reference    ) and the rain Seattle accumulates...

Nirvana was the group that is mistakenly credited with "inventing" or "introducing" grunge to the world.  Some say it was Neil Young.  Maybe Nirvana was the first to popularize grunge.  

 

[surreal1272]

15 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

A LOT of musical genius came out of Seattle.  Im very impressed by that. 

Im not so impressed by all that rain. But then again, Ive NEVER been that way, so what the hell do I know about being Sleepless in Seattle (pop culture reference    ) and the rain Seattle accumulates...

Nirvana was the group that is mistakenly credited with "inventing" or "introducing" grunge to the world.  Some say it was Neil Young.  Maybe Nirvana was the first to popularize grunge.  

 

Don’t know about Young but most locals there would probably say that bands like Mudhoney, early Soundgarden, and Mother Love Bone started the grunge scene there. Nirvana just got the first big break is all. 
 

And Seattle can keep that rain. That is way too much for my taste. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by surreal1272

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

  

I have nothinh against Seattle. Other than maybe, the rain.

Spring has been so rainy here in NE Ohio...the upside is all the rain produces green...lush green grass, trees, bushes.  My yard looks great and the local parks (metro, county, state, and national) are beautifully green now.   The downside is mud, mud, and more mud.  Did I mention mud?  

I do love a climate w/ 4 distinct seasons as much as I truly, truly, deeply loathe deserts--may I never have to spend time in AZ or NV or any of those fecal dusty shitholes again...

A couple pics from the National Park 10 min from my house..

 

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

I love the Rain and Mountain Snow, rather have that than Sun and heat.  

Course here is a list of artists from this area.

Famous Musicians From Washington (thefamouspeople.com)

For those that do not want to read the detailed list at the link, artist listed here:

• Kurt Cobain
• Jimi Hendrix
• Chris Cornell
• Duff McKagan
• Layne Staley
• Macklemore
• Kenny Loggins
• Kenny G
• Lil Mosey
• Jerry Cantrell
• Carol Kaye
• Ginuwine
• Carrie Brownstein
• Alison Sudol
• Judy Collins
• Brandi Carlile
• Michael Winslow
• Ryan Lewis
• Phil Elverum
• Mark Lanegan
• Brian Stokes Mitchell
• Jennifer Warnes
• Greg Rolie
• Stone Gossard
• Jake Shears
• Nate Mendel
• Buzz Osborne
• Sean Kinney
• Dylan Carlson
• Eldon Hoke
• Warrel Dane
• Brandy Clark
• Kishi Bashi
• Matty Mullins
• Dale Crover
• Malay
• A.B. Quintanilla
• Scott Rockenfield
• Phil Driscoll - Great Trumpet player IMHO as I am also a trumpet and piano player.
• Jenny Conlee
• Chiwoniso Maraire
• William Bolcom
• Jason Webley
• Chris Taylor
• Ricky Horror
• Mark Morris
• Tamara Gee
• Lanny Ross
• Trey Azagthoth
• Wesley Stromberg
• Zacky Vengeance
• Joe Greene
• Drew Chadwick

Have to say, Seattle might not be sung about much, but the number of singers, musicians and composers from here is surprising to me. I am sure since this list is from the late 90s that there are even more now.

[G. David Felt]

16 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Spring has been so rainy here in NE Ohio...the upside is all the rain produces green...lush green grass, trees, bushes.  My yard looks great and the local parks (metro, county, state, and national) are beautifully green now.   The downside is mud, mud, and more mud.  Did I mention mud?  

I do love a climate w/ 4 distinct seasons as much as I truly, truly, deeply loathe deserts--may I never have to spend time in AZ or NV or any of those fecal dusty shitholes again...

A couple pics from the National Park 10 min from my house..

 

 

Very Cool Robert, I will say that for transplants to Washington, I think our cold spring and rain is getting to people due to the road rage issues that have sprung up over the last week here. Today we get hit with a 1, 2 punch of two atmospheric rivers. Today is raining hard, supposed to get up to 3 inches of rain today. Then a break mid morning on Friday before River 2 hits us with up to 6 inches of rain from Friday afternoon through Sunday night.

Everything here is very green, lakes filling up nicely, no water shortage here like southern California, Nevada or Utah are having to deal with.

[G. David Felt]

Very cool build for those that like a standard cab truck.

The Next in Line (theblock.com)

[Drew Dowdell]

1. HR Director took delivery of her brand new Tesla Model Y on Friday.

2. By Wednesday it was on a flatbed, stone dead, getting trucked back to Tesla for repairs.

[trinacriabob]

10 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Don’t know about Young but most locals there would probably say that bands like Mudhoney, early Soundgarden, and Mother Love Bone started the grunge scene there. Nirvana just got the first big break is all. 
 

And Seattle can keep that rain. That is way too much for my taste. 

@surreal1272 The actual rainfall in Seattle (and Portland) on an annualized basis is less than that of most cities in the East, including Atlanta, for example.  I've lived in both and, in Seattle, it's an ongoing thing, but it rarely comes pouring down.  Eastern cities are more apt to get thunderstorms where it comes down in buckets, so that probably explains why they get more when annualized.  I would sometimes watch heavy rain in Atlanta send so much damn red clay down the sides of residential streets.

I did okay with the rain.  It gave me an excuse to get coffee and/or read.  It didn't put me in a bad mood.  I will say that that corner of the country is reputed to have some very uptight people and I would concur with that.  Many California and East Coast transplants commiserated about this ... and befriended each other.  The Univ. of Wash. psych. and soc. departments have faculty and researchers who study these social phenomena and write about them.

@Robert Hall  Good call on your "what if" scenario, except that it is so expensive in the PacNW right now.  It's interesting how, when Boeing was not doing well in the late '60s and early '70s, some people funded a billboard on I-5 southbound saying 'Will the last person leaving Seattle turn off the lights?' or something like that.  People would also call the Univ. of Wash. "the U," which was sort of small townish.  Nobody has called it that for at least 2 decades!

I will say that any place where the predominant tree cover is evergreen makes for a more pleasant environment than one that is deciduous.  That's why, to me, at least, Maine looks nicer than Southern New England and Duluth and the UP of MI look nicer than the Twin Cities, so it makes for a nicer place to be day in and day out.  The Atlanta area also looked nice because of the ubiquitous stands of Southern pine.  My parents came to visit me there once and took the Delta "red eye" from SoCal, never having been in that corner of the U.S., and were mostly impressed.

[trinacriabob]

The random things that went through my head in the last few days:

Pushing the cart down the aisles at the supermarket tells me that, from last year, it looks like the price of grocery items has gone up 20% to 25%.

The current gas prices are really, really bad for the discretionary travel industry and have caused me to cancel plans.

I am disgusted to read or listen to the news to learn that a certain type of criminal event seems to occur just about daily now and the "innocence lost" factor is becoming a much bigger problem in this country.

It's amazing to see that, in looking at the Ford stable, there are so many Fusions and Milans (4s and 6s) on the road, in excellent physical and mechanical condition, and their owners do not want to part with them.  There was a Milan in my rear view mirror tonight and it remains a handsome and timeless vehicle.

This is a 2010.

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

1. HR Director took delivery of her brand new Tesla Model Y on Friday.

2. By Wednesday it was on a flatbed, stone dead, getting trucked back to Tesla for repairs.

Wow, that is poor quality.  I wonder (by comparison) how many ICE vehicles in its class suffer a similar fate (just to compare to this possible Tesla issue).

[Drew Dowdell]

11 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

The random things that went through my head in the last few days:

Pushing the cart down the aisles at the supermarket tells me that, from last year, it looks like the price of grocery items has gone up 20% to 25%.

The current gas prices are really, really bad for the discretionary travel industry and have caused me to cancel plans.

I am disgusted to read or listen to the news to learn that a certain type of criminal event seems to occur just about daily now and the "innocence lost" factor is becoming a much bigger problem in this country.

It's amazing to see that, in looking at the Ford stable, there are so many Fusions and Milans (4s and 6s) on the road, in excellent physical and mechanical condition, and their owners do not want to part with them.  There was a Milan in my rear view mirror tonight and it remains a handsome and timeless vehicle.

This is a 2010.

I liked the Milan a lot.. it had just a little bit more flare than a Fusion and it had the hint of being more luxury than a Ford.... not much, but enough that Mercury might have been able to pull away from Ford had they been allowed.  My Aunt had one of the last Mountineers and she would say she'd never get an Explorer. She has an Aviator now... so... true.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

1. HR Director took delivery of her brand new Tesla Model Y on Friday.

2. By Wednesday it was on a flatbed, stone dead, getting trucked back to Tesla for repairs.

I did a sad face thingy vote, because its not funny from the point of view of your HR director. 

But regarding Elon Musk's leadership, concerning himself with everything important of what is going on in this world, EXCEPT for actually running Tesla correctly,  its phoquing funny!!!

1. Lends Ukraine his Starlink satellites to counter Russian blackouts and propaganda.  (Good thing)

2. Tries to buy Twitter all in the name of freedom of speech, except he ignores misinformation platforms are not beneficial to the freedoms of anybody.  And he forgets that he doesnt actually have the LIQUID cash to buy Twitter, and the Tesla investors are not exactly continually giving him money to fund a Twitter buy out.   (Bad thing)

3. Concerns himself with a lawsuit case that has really nothing to do with him.  He might have dated Amber Turd,  and he gave her some money to help her feed her personality disorder lies, but really, nobody gave a shyte about his opinions on the matter, INCLUDING his former narcissistic girlfriend.  (Bad thing)  (He just proved himself to be a beta male cuck)

4. Instead of focusing on his OWN legal battles. Tesla's own sexual abuse claims in the workplace AND the NHTSA probe into Tesla's autopilot failures...  (Bad thing)

Sandy Munro's MAIN complaint about Tesla has ALWAYS been Tesla's sloppy manufacturing.  And THAT hasnt improved. And Sandy Munro thinks that Tesla's sloppy manufacturing aint gonna be a problem and the other OEMs will fail but not Tesla?

What a joke!  Hence why your story is also funny!!!

I have come to LOATHE Tesla...  (because of Elon) 

 

 

 

[trinacriabob]

42 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I liked the Milan a lot.. it had just a little bit more flare than a Fusion and it had the hint of being more luxury than a Ford.... not much, but enough that Mercury might have been able to pull away from Ford had they been allowed.  

As for the last part, it had to have been about economies of scale, so they had to stay in FoMoCo.  These 2 vehicles shared so many components, notably their powertrains.

As for the cars themselves, there is no doubt that if I was looking at these 2 vehicles, I would have opted for the Milan.  The difference of ~$500 to $1,000 (at the time they were on the market) probably wouldn't matter to people who keep their cars for a long time.  That's also a cheap price tag to avoid an ongoing cognitive dissonance problem!

30 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I have come to LOATHE Tesla...  (because of Elon) 

Hearing what Elon Musk thinks of everything is annoying and it was the same way when Bill Gates was the VIP in the spotlight.

(On the other hand, Warren Buffett seems to make insightful and reasonable observations, for the most part.)

I tuned out to Elon and to Tesla a long time ago.  I don't even bother to study or analyze Tesla cars all that much since they're more ugly than not.

[Robert Hall]

9 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I liked the Milan a lot.. it had just a little bit more flare than a Fusion and it had the hint of being more luxury than a Ford.... not much, but enough that Mercury might have been able to pull away from Ford had they been allowed.  My Aunt had one of the last Mountineers and she would say she'd never get an Explorer. She has an Aviator now... so... true.

Speaking of forgotten Fords, I've seen a couple Five Hundreds and a Montego lately...I can't recall when I last saw one of the modern Montegos (later renamed Sable, IIRC).   I saw a clean Taurus X wagon on I-90 the other day. 

[Robert Hall]

11 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

1. HR Director took delivery of her brand new Tesla Model Y on Friday.

2. By Wednesday it was on a flatbed, stone dead, getting trucked back to Tesla for repairs.

Heard a similar tale at work... the Marketing Director at my company has a '15 Model S w/ 100k, bought a new Model Y as a family hauler last month.. over Memorial Day weekend while on vacation in Myrtle Beach it bricked itself.   Had to rent a minivan to get back home. 

[G. David Felt]

19 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Heard a similar tale at work... the Marketing Director at my company has a '15 Model S w/ 100k, bought a new Model Y as a family hauler last month.. over Memorial Day weekend while on vacation in Myrtle Beach it bricked itself.   Had to rent a minivan to get back home. 

Tesla needs to fire the idiot CEO they have who is playing in way too many ponds and get someone to run the company and focus on quality. They have some of the best powertrain, controller and battery tech out there, but the lack of leadership is pathetic.

Who cares about Tesla Robots, Tesla distraction stuff. Tesla under Musk has failed on so many fronts to deliver on so many promises. Yes Tesla deserves all the credit for doing what GM should have done in the late 90's on moving EVs forward, yet Musk is Failing Tesla on leadership and delivering a quality product. This will be their death if they do not nip this in the bud.

[ccap41]

Is this all that much different than Bolts catching fire randomly? Should we be shouting on top of a mountain that GM needs new leadership because they've had recalls and Bolts burning houses down? 

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, David said:

Tesla needs to fire the idiot CEO they have who is playing in way too many ponds and get someone to run the company and focus on quality. They have some of the best powertrain, controller and battery tech out there, but the lack of leadership is pathetic.

Who cares about Tesla Robots, Tesla distraction stuff. Tesla under Musk has failed on so many fronts to deliver on so many promises. Yes Tesla deserves all the credit for doing what GM should have done in the late 90's on moving EVs forward, yet Musk is Failing Tesla on leadership and delivering a quality product. This will be their death if they do not nip this in the bud.

 

15 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Is this all that much different than Bolts catching fire randomly? Should we be shouting on top of a mountain that GM needs new leadership because they've had recalls and Bolts burning houses down? 

Tesla needs Elon Musk like it needs a very bad headache.  If it was a normal company, Musk would have been fired a long time ago.  NOBODY at GM is so egotistical to think that they deserve all the attention Musk gets these days.  Tesla may get bought out or go under precisely because of Elon Musk's bad leadership and/or lack of leadership.

GM, on the other hand, needed real batteries to get the EV1 to be successful.  The battery tech of 1995 is what ultimately broke the product.  Now GM does need to resolve Bolts catching file and burning down houses Right Now.

[ccap41]

My point is, just because he has a loud Twitter account and Mary Barra doesn't, doesn't make her vehicles any less problematic. 

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

My point is, just because he has a loud Twitter account and Mary Barra doesn't, doesn't make her vehicles any less problematic. 

Problem tho.  Several.

GM has a LOT on their plate right now to resolve.

Bolt battery fires.  Production delays with Camaros, Corvettes and just about all other vehicles in their line-up. Corvette Z06 rumors that transmissions are failing or crank cases are cracking or whatever the rumor is...  

Mary Barra is NOT out there trying to buy Twitter using GM shareholder and GM investor monies...and causing a real shyte show with Twitter's IPO AND Tesla's and having all investors involved in a phoquing tizzy...

Mary Barra is NOT out there DOWNPLAYING the Bolt battery fires like  Elon is doing with the NHTSA autopilot investigation.

Mary Barra is not tone deaf and sticking her nose in a physical and sexual abuse case when Musk's own company has a very very serious problem of its own regarding sexual abuse of its own.  FYI, NOBODY asked Elon his opinion on the matter for him to interject it anyway even IF he dated Amber Heard just right after Johnny Depp's marriage failed with Amber...    He wasnt even called upon as a witness DESPITE his generosity of him giving money to charity in Amber's name...  Kate Moss stayed out of it and she testified...

Marry Barra is actually running her company.

Elon is running something...his mouth.

How is Tesla robotics gonna solve Tesla's sloppy manufacturing?    Its an issue that NOBODY is ignoring in 2022. Only Musk, Tesla sheeple and Sandy Munro are ignoring this issue.

It seems that Musk is ONLY concerned on how Johnny and Amber move on from this trial...   He has several female employees that want to discuss  THEIR sexual abuse within Tesla.    I wonder if he has a clue on how his company moves on from these allegations...maybe he should forget about Aquamaaaaaan and Captain Jack Sparrow and start dealing with Tesla's problems...

 

Maybe he should start tweeting on how he will address Tesla's issues and maybe he should forget about free speech platforms and Hollywood's shytty drama...

[ccap41]

And yet, 

13 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

GM has a LOT on their plate right now to resolve.

Bolt battery fires.  Production delays with Camaros, Corvettes and just about all other vehicles in their line-up. Corvette Z06 rumors that transmissions are failing or crank cases are cracking or whatever the rumor is...  

without Barra doing any of the stuff Elon does. 

14 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Its an issue that NOBODY is ignoring in 2022. Only Musk, Tesla sheeple and Sandy Munro are ignoring this issue.

Hundreds of thousands or millions don't care as they love their vehicles. 

[oldshurst442]

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

without Barra doing any of the stuff Elon does. 

what does this quote even mean?

She is running the company. Not her mouth...

8 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Hundreds of thousands or millions don't care as they love their vehicles. 

Ditto for GM.

People LOVE their Volts and Bolts..

People LOVE their C8 Corvettes...  

People LOVE their fullsized pick up trrucks and SUVs from Chevy, GMC and Cadillac.

Once upon a time ago, GM ALSO had sheeple...   Look how THAT eventually turned out... 

But even with all those words...you still didnt make ANY correlation as to how Marry Barrra should be held to thee same scrutiny that we have ALL put Elon to.

I guess you are a big proponent of free speech on Twitter because I dont see you give a shyte about Johnny and Amber...  

 

[ccap41]

56 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

She is running the company. Not her mouth...

And her company clearly has its own issues so to say Elon's company has all of these problems and it's because he's worried about all sorts of other things that are not automobile-related, doesn't equate. 

Both companies have quality issues, he just has a loud mouth. 

59 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Ditto for GM.

People LOVE their Volts and Bolts..

People LOVE their C8 Corvettes...  

People LOVE their fullsized pick up trrucks and SUVs from Chevy, GMC and Cadillac.

EXACTLY! 

People love their Teslas even though Elon has a loud mouth and talks too much. 

59 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Once upon a time ago, GM ALSO had sheeple... 

Oh they still do.. just like Ferd, BMW, Benz etc. Every company has its rabid fanboys. 

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

But even with all those words...you still didnt make ANY correlation as to how Marry Barrra should be held to thee same scrutiny that we have ALL put Elon to.

Her company has(had) Bolts catching fire is garages burning homes to the ground but this is "okay". Elon makes annoying tweets and this is why his company has quality issues? 

Two major quality issues. Why is one being held to a different standard than the other? Is it just because he has a loud mouth and he's easy to dislike? 

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

I guess you are a big proponent of free speech on Twitter because I dont see you give a shyte about Johnny and Amber...  

I don't have a Twitter account nor do I give to fcks about celebrities in a defamation suit. 

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Is this all that much different than Bolts catching fire randomly? Should we be shouting on top of a mountain that GM needs new leadership because they've had recalls and Bolts burning houses down? 

Considering that the BOLT is over all a well-engineered EV excluding the battery pack. The BOLT has not had the large amount of quality problems such as rear bumpers ripping off when water from the road hits them or roofs flying off as they drive onto a freeway, or how about just bricking themselves into a non-movable EV. 

Yes, BOLT battery fire is serious, and GM did the right thing in shutting down production, focus on rooting out the problem, starting up battery productions, swapping out existing battery packs and then starting BOLT production up again as they focus on moving all EVs to the Ultium platform.

I would say Marry is leading much better than Musk.

As I have stated, Tesla gets credit where credit is due, but right now the house is a mess with far more issues than GM and the BOLT battery pack.

[ccap41]

10 minutes ago, David said:

I would say Marry is leading much better than Musk.

How or why, when they both have major issues? Her being quite on social media hasn't shown to make better products.

I can also throw out an anecdotal evidence that the Hummer isn't in good shape either. A buddy of mine who is a salesman at a GM store had a Hummer EV return in less than a week with issues. Should we blame Barra for this? Should we assume all Hummer EVs are problematic? 

[G. David Felt]

32 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

How or why, when they both have major issues? Her being quite on social media hasn't shown to make better products.

I can also throw out an anecdotal evidence that the Hummer isn't in good shape either. A buddy of mine who is a salesman at a GM store had a Hummer EV return in less than a week with issues. Should we blame Barra for this? Should we assume all Hummer EVs are problematic? 

Your right that GM has had their fair share of problems with existing, past and all-new auto's. Big difference is you have leadership that is working to fix and build better auto's rather than focus on erratic behavior and narcissistic tendencies in blending their personal life and professional job.

While I have not heard of any GMC Hummer issues, I would not be surprised to hear that the first few Hummers out the door have hit issues. Real world tends to do that and with that, those spending 6 figures on a bleeding edge technology like the GMC Hummer have to expect bumps in the road.

[ccap41]

8 minutes ago, David said:

Your right that GM has had their fair share of problems with existing, past and all-new auto's. Big difference is you have leadership that is working to fix and build better auto's rather than focus on erratic behavior and narcissistic tendencies in blending their personal life and professional job.

So because somebody has time to type out some tweets, this means they cannot focus on their autos also? You're just assuming they're not working on fixing their quality control issues and that there aren't teams of engineers also working on these issues, just like GM has teams of engineers working on fixing their issues. 

Do you think Barra doesn't have a personal life that she puts her own energy towards outside of work? If we see a picture of her vacationing should we criticize her for not concentrating on fixing Bolt issues? 

I should point out that GM isn't the only other manufacturer with QC issues. Ford with the Bronco and 2.7T are another current one. I'm just using GM as an example. 

[riviera74]

15 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

So because somebody has time to type out some tweets, this means they cannot focus on their autos also? You're just assuming they're not working on fixing their quality control issues and that there aren't teams of engineers also working on these issues, just like GM has teams of engineers working on fixing their issues. 

Do you think Barra doesn't have a personal life that she puts her own energy towards outside of work? If we see a picture of her vacationing should we criticize her for not concentrating on fixing Bolt issues? 

I should point out that GM isn't the only other manufacturer with QC issues. Ford with the Bronco and 2.7T are another current one. I'm just using GM as an example. 

I think that the larger issue is that Elon wants to be a celebrity while Mary Barra acts like a CEO.  Also, will Tesla actually address their fit and finish issues anytime soon?

[ccap41]

8 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

I think that the larger issue is that Elon wants to be a celebrity while Mary Barra acts like a CEO.  Also, will Tesla actually address their fit and finish issues anytime soon?

But, as I've mentioned, both CEOs have problems. People don't like Elon for the same reason they didn't like Trump, they said really stupid things and put themselves in the limelight when they had no reason to (I'm independent - Don't fully support Red or Blue). Elon isn't running his company into the ground. He just says stupid things and gives people like David and Olds fuel to say "This is why they have quality issues. He's spending too much time on the internet!" When GM's CEO doesn't spend the time on social media but their company has cars burning houses down. She doesn't say stupid things though, so that's forgivable. 

[trinacriabob]

2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

I think that the larger issue is that Elon wants to be a celebrity while Mary Barra acts like a CEO.  

Accurately and economically stated!

(I need to work on being less verbose.)

[Drew Dowdell]

12 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Is this all that much different than Bolts catching fire randomly? Should we be shouting on top of a mountain that GM needs new leadership because they've had recalls and Bolts burning houses down? 

Yes, but LG rather than GM. 
 

And the issue with Elon is that he is dishonestly manipulating the market with his tweets.  See the recent series of tweets regarding Tesla layoffs and the whole Twitter blowup 

[oldshurst442]

10 hours ago, ccap41 said:

David and Olds fuel to say "This is why they have quality issues. He's spending too much time on the internet!

I never said his tweeting is a direct result of why they have quality issues.

But his wasting of time tweeting is definitely not fruitful in running Tesla the way a multi-national, multi-billion dollarr company should bee run.

Hell, my small enterprise couldnt be run well if I wasted all that time tweeting and speculating like he is doing...

But read what @riviera74 and @Drew Dowdell wrote to you.  Ive also mentioned and hinted at what they both are telling you. 

Its OK... once again, we have differing points of view.  Sometimes I sees where you are coming from. Not this time tho...

[oldshurst442]

8 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

Accurately and economically stated!

(I need to work on being less verbose.)

Thumbs up on the 1st part.

And no, you and I both do NOT need to work on being less verbose.   Its in our (my) Greek  and (your) Italian DNA to actually be emotionally expressive with lots of dramatic words and dramatic hand gestures to communicate.  Let us NOT forget the tone and reflections of our voice.  

Sarcasm, sassiness and plain old a$$hole responses is what our cultures do. 

We should be proud of that!!!  

[oldshurst442]

I have noticed what it seems like forever, that birds, have ALWAYS flew RIGHT in front of my cars while I am driving. No matter what speeds Im doing. Im going down a road or boulevard and birds seem to fly from a perpendicular street and zoom by successfully in front of my car. 

Im like thinking, they are playing a game if they could beat the speeding car and succeed in flying in front of it successfully getting to the other side. 

Ill repeat, I think birds are PLAYING A GAME, a game of chicken, in testing out there own agility and speed in trying to out race a car by flying perpendicular to a car and seeing if they can succeed to fly in front of it to get to the other side of the street.

I honestly do think birds do this on purpose to test out and practice their flying abilities. 

Pretty gutsy. Pretty smart. Pretty awesome Id say.

 

[surreal1272]

On 6/10/2022 at 10:28 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Yes, but LG rather than GM. 
 

And the issue with Elon is that he is dishonestly manipulating the market with his tweets.  See the recent series of tweets regarding Tesla layoffs and the whole Twitter blowup 

I would like to add the wide ranging quality and reliability issues with Tesla that far trumps the Bolts ONE issue. Elon gets easily distracted and this is a known fact (mostly due to being high spectrum) and it’s his end line product that suffers as a result. His interests and focus seem to change with the season and that is a huge problem. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

And I don’t know how anyone can say that criticism of Musk is just because of some tweets or a singular incident. It most certainly is not If those same folks have been paying attention to his actions over the last decade. Hell, the man now criticized government subsidies while somehow ignoring that his company exists as it is today solely because of those SAME SUBSIDIES over that same decade. That’s just for starters. 

[G. David Felt]

On 6/10/2022 at 11:04 AM, ccap41 said:

But, as I've mentioned, both CEOs have problems. People don't like Elon for the same reason they didn't like Trump, they said really stupid things and put themselves in the limelight when they had no reason to (I'm independent - Don't fully support Red or Blue). Elon isn't running his company into the ground. He just says stupid things and gives people like David and Olds fuel to say "This is why they have quality issues. He's spending too much time on the internet!" When GM's CEO doesn't spend the time on social media but their company has cars burning houses down. She doesn't say stupid things though, so that's forgivable. 

I could care less about Musk tweets, Tesla is hurting from growing bigger due to the distractions that Musk seems to think Tesla has to have. A list of Distractions currently and there could be more.

• Space X
• The Boring Company
  • Boring Company Flamethrowers
• Variety of Tesla Toys
  • Tesla Tequila
  • Tesla Bot
  • Tesla Giga Belt Buckles
  • Tesla Cyber Whistle
  • Tesla Cyberquad ATV for kids
  • Tesla Radio Flyer electric Model S kid car
  • Tesla Powerwall
  • Tesla Solar Roof
  • Tesla Surf Boards
  • Tesla diecast model cars
  • Tesla Desktop Supercharger
  • Tesla Desktop Powerbank
  • Tesla Hats
  • Tesla Shirts, Coats, Hoodies, etc. Clothing line
• Cyber Currency Speculation

I get that established companies sell supporting stuff to their fans, but in this case before getting the company profitable and then even when accounting has been used to show the company to be profitable, the leadership rather than focus on fixing fit/finish quality issues, the smoke and mirrors show goes up on deflecting from promised actual products to delivering auto's that do not have the problems Tesla has today.

Lets also not forget the big lie of self driving that has not yet been actually delivered and yet sold for the last decade to people and has cost people their lives due to alpha and beta testing of the auto software on the customers.

Do not forget all the sexual harassment issues Tesla is trying to hide because of their erratic CEO.

On top of the fact that since you focused on his social media tweeting, his manipulation that if you or I did, would for sure have our butts in jail.

[ccap41]

14 hours ago, David said:

I could care less about Musk tweets, Tesla is hurting from growing bigger due to the distractions that Musk seems to think Tesla has to have. A list of Distractions currently and there could be more.

• Space X
• The Boring Company
  • Boring Company Flamethrowers
• Variety of Tesla Toys
  • Tesla Tequila
  • Tesla Bot
  • Tesla Giga Belt Buckles
  • Tesla Cyber Whistle
  • Tesla Cyberquad ATV for kids
  • Tesla Radio Flyer electric Model S kid car
  • Tesla Powerwall
  • Tesla Solar Roof
  • Tesla Surf Boards
  • Tesla diecast model cars
  • Tesla Desktop Supercharger
  • Tesla Desktop Powerbank
  • Tesla Hats
  • Tesla Shirts, Coats, Hoodies, etc. Clothing line
• Cyber Currency Speculation

You're going to list things like merchandise, clothing, model cars and pretend GM isn't into those same things(and every other manufacturer because that's just smart business)? What do you call NASCAR/IMSA/IndyCar sponsorships? It certainly isn't like they're using any of that stuff in street cars so would these just be "distractions"? 

Yeah, I 100% agree with you that Elon's distracted because his company is making hats. If they stopped making hats, shirts, and hoodies, I'm sure they would have higher quality vehicles. 

Could you imagine how much money GM could invest in QC if they stopped sponsoring NASCAR and IndyCar teams?!?! Hell, if they would just stop with their garbage-@ss commercials they'd be doing better! Tesla doesn't pay for advertising. GM must be distracted by producing garbage commercials. 

[Robert Hall]

24 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

 

Yeah, I 100% agree with you that Elon's distracted because his company is making hats. If they stopped making hats, shirts, and hoodies, I'm sure they would have higher quality vehicles. 

 

You realize Tesla doesn't make any of that merchandise...just licensed the name and image to 3rd parties in China that make tchotchkes...

Edited June 13, 2022 by Robert Hall

[ccap41]

22 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

You realize Tesla doesn't make any of that merchandise...just licensed the name and image to 3rd parties in China that make tchotchkes...

That's exactly my point. That stuff is not a distraction whatsoever to him and the company. That's almost 100% certainly a division within the company specifically designated for this stuff. 

Sorry, it's tough to type sarcastically...lol

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

You're going to list things like merchandise, clothing, model cars and pretend GM isn't into those same things(and every other manufacturer because that's just smart business)? What do you call NASCAR/IMSA/IndyCar sponsorships? It certainly isn't like they're using any of that stuff in street cars so would these just be "distractions"? 

Yeah, I 100% agree with you that Elon's distracted because his company is making hats. If they stopped making hats, shirts, and hoodies, I'm sure they would have higher quality vehicles. 

Could you imagine how much money GM could invest in QC if they stopped sponsoring NASCAR and IndyCar teams?!?! Hell, if they would just stop with their garbage-@ss commercials they'd be doing better! Tesla doesn't pay for advertising. GM must be distracted by producing garbage commercials. 

Thank you for proving the point of Common sense is not so common. Since you clearly cannot or are not willing to look at the big picture of all the distractions for a startup versus a well-established business. I listed from big to small the distractions and you can only focus on a small clothing section and then jump to Nascar rather than the distractions of Space-X, Boring Company, Solar, Powerwall that are much more financially draining distractions on top of his current favorite pet project the Tesla Bot. These all drain from him the ability to look at the bigger picture of Tesla only in making sure it is a leading-edge quality auto company.

At this point, I predict 2025 Tesla will be a has-been company compared to legacy auto makers that will surpass it and Tesla will have to start looking at merging with another company to survive.

[surreal1272]

Right now, I am like…

 

at the absurdity here (the obvious context deficiency on display here). 

Edited June 13, 2022 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

35 minutes ago, David said:

Thank you for proving the point of Common sense is not so common. Since you clearly cannot or are not willing to look at the big picture of all the distractions for a startup versus a well-established business. I listed from big to small the distractions and you can only focus on a small clothing section and then jump to Nascar rather than the distractions of Space-X, Boring Company, Solar, Powerwall that are much more financially draining distractions on top of his current favorite pet project the Tesla Bot. These all drain from him the ability to look at the bigger picture of Tesla only in making sure it is a leading-edge quality auto company.

At this point, I predict 2025 Tesla will be a has-been company compared to legacy auto makers that will surpass it and Tesla will have to start looking at merging with another company to survive.

They're not a startup anymore though.  They've been producing cars for 14 years and have successfully sold all of the things you just listed. 

So Tesla is "distracted" by other ventures but GM isn't distracted by their other ventures. Sounds a little hypocritic to me.  

Solar and Powerwall are the only things you listed that are actually Tesla. Space-X is its own company and, while it's private, is estimated to be quite profitable. 

GM couldn't possibly be distracated with their multiple companies they control, OnStar, AC Delco, GM Financial, Periscope, Ultium... 

[Drew Dowdell]

17 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

They're not a startup anymore though.  They've been producing cars for 14 years and have successfully sold all of the things you just listed. 

So Tesla is "distracted" by other ventures but GM isn't distracted by their other ventures. Sounds a little hypocritic to me.  

Solar and Powerwall are the only things you listed that are actually Tesla. Space-X is its own company and, while it's private, is estimated to be quite profitable. 

GM couldn't possibly be distracated with their multiple companies they control, OnStar, AC Delco, GM Financial, Periscope, Ultium... 

It's a significant difference in managerial style. Elon strikes me as micro manager in as much as a CEO/President can be.  He personally heads up all of his other projects.  Mary Barra and the GM Board, on the other hand, hires competent (arguably) leadership to run those things and they just have to report results up to the board once or twice a month.

GM has well stocked leadership team that can function on their own.   Would anyone here not trust Mark Reuss - President of General Motors, to handle his stuff properly?  Dan Berce is CEO of GM Financial and a SVP for GM.  He was with Americredit from 1990 - 2010, serving first as CFO, then President, then CEO.  AC Delco has its own Director. The list goes on of course with very capable people you've never heard of.

Elon has a leadership team too, of course, but he has much more direct control over individual aspects of the business and the side businesses.

[ccap41]

16 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

GM has well stocked leadership team that can function on their own.   Would anyone here not trust Mark Reuss - President of General Motors, to handle his stuff properly?  Dan Berce is CEO of GM Financial and a SVP for GM.  He was with Americredit from 1990 - 2010, serving first as CFO, then President, then CEO.  AC Delco has its own Director. The list goes on of course with very capable people you've never heard of.

Those are very good points, and I would have also expected them to have their pretty separate divisions. 

So Elon being involved is the issue. 

Who would have thought people would be upset the CEO is actually a hands-on kind of person and wants to be involved with all of his ventures?

[Drew Dowdell]

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Those are very good points, and I would have also expected them to have their pretty separate divisions. 

So Elon being involved is the issue. 

Who would have thought people would be upset the CEO is actually a hands-on kind of person and wants to be involved with all of his ventures?

It's a matter of focus and attention.  Musk himself admits to working 14-16 hour days. That's a sign that he is unable or unwilling to delegate or hire competent people.  Mary Barra doesn't need to get involved in AC Delco or GM Financial because there are very skilled people at the helms.  Mary came up from the production line where she worked quality control on the Pontiac Grand Prix, but she's not out there sticking her fingers in each panel seam these days.

When you have the right people in the right roles, things run much smoother.

[G. David Felt]

20 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Those are very good points, and I would have also expected them to have their pretty separate divisions. 

So Elon being involved is the issue. 

Who would have thought people would be upset the CEO is actually a hands-on kind of person and wants to be involved with all of his ventures?

There are two types of CEOs that are hands on. Those that hire competent folks to lead their divisions and report to the CEO on what is going on and allow the CEO to give back their thoughts, directions wants, etc. to those division leaders and let them act on it.

Then you have the Micro Manager CEO that feels they have to be hands on in everything and while it works in the short term, long term it is draining on the person but also a hinderance to solid profitable growth of a company and the divisions.

Musk is the micro manager that is too much hands on and distracted by still wanting to be in the mud. If he wants to be that heavily involved in the day to day projects, then it would be best to step down as CEO and focus on where his passion lies in creating things.

There is a difference between a visionary and a micro manager and Musk falls in the later category now.

[G. David Felt]

5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It's a matter of focus and attention.  Musk himself admits to working 14-16 hour days. That's a sign that he is unable or unwilling to delegate or hire competent people.  Mary Barra doesn't need to get involved in AC Delco or GM Financial because there are very skilled people at the helms.  Mary came up from the production line where she worked quality control on the Pontiac Grand Prix, but she's not out there sticking her fingers in each panel seam these days.

When you have the right people in the right roles, things run much smoother.

Thank you Drew, this is a perfect example of solid leadership and another is the former CEO of IBM Lou Gerstner who not only built a deep bench of managers and turned IBM around to be one of the best service tech companies today still with the largest Main Frame computer business, but when he retired, he took his severance package which was over half a billion dollars over the next 10 years as he believed he had built and would be leaving a management team in place that would continue to lead IBM forward with solid growth and proved it by staking his retirement on it.

To this day, he is a true visionary and leader who brought into an ailing and failing legacy company only a few people as he believed the existing staff just needed leadership that could inspire them and believe in them with the right guidance to lead their own teams. This I believe he delivered on in excess. A great American Company.

Lou Gerstner - Wikipedia

[ccap41]

47 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

but she's not out there sticking her fingers in each panel seam these days.

..Musk isn't doing that either.. 

48 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

When you have the right people in the right roles, things run much smoother.

With their respective quality issues, does she really have the right people in the right roles? 

[Drew Dowdell]

4 hours ago, ccap41 said:

..Musk isn't doing that either.. 

With their respective quality issues, does she really have the right people in the right roles? 

Every manufacturer has some issue where they fall short.  Tesla's problem is that they can't seem to build a car with consistent quality anywhere close to what GM is doing.   And it is a matter of percentages also.

In 2021, Tesla produced 936,222 vehicle for their entire lineup globally. But they can't get their door panels to line up correctly each time or for a new vehicle not to brick itself 5 days after delivery.

In 2021, GM sold 835,269 Silverado/Sierras just in North America. Add in the 97k from the Colorado/Canyon and GM produces as many trucks as Tesla's entire lineup.

GM built 6.3 million vehicles globally in 2021 and that's down from a peak of 10.01 million in 2016.

So while GM has experienced some design quality issues... generally the build quality is pretty good and consistent.

Telsa also complicates matters by making running upgrades to their vehicles.... so that two cars coming off the same production line within days of each other can end up with different parts. So just having a 2022 Tesla doesn't mean anything... you need to know which version 2022 you got.  If that were being done by say, Honda, I'd have a lot more confidence in the process.