Random Thoughts Thread

[oldshurst442]

21 minutes ago, David said:

Yes, the Oracle was written to ensure balance against the Architect. As such, I could see the Machines seeing a need for Trinity and Neo to balance against the Agents.

Yes. Makes sense.

Im shocked.  I not only remember the movies, but completely understand them too!

 Neo beat the agents which in the end was only one, Mr. Smith cloning himself. But I suppose the peace between the humans, machines and the agents wanting more power has been broken. I think this is the storyline of Resurrections. 

   

 

[Robert Hall]

Looking forward to the new Matrix movie. Watched the trailer today.  Too bad they didn’t get Elon Musk to play a new Architect. 

[oldshurst442]

Just now, Robert Hall said:

Looking forward to the new Matrix movie. Watched the trailer today.  Too bad they didn’t get Elon Musk to play a new Architect. 

yeah!   Wouldn't have THAT been a hoot!  

 

[balthazar]

Another installment of 'Time Sucks' : 

[G. David Felt]

45 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Another installment of 'Time Sucks' : 

Yes all our favorites growing up are much older now.

[oldshurst442]

 

First thing that came to my mind:

Is THAT Elvis' daughter?

LISA marie???!!!

Like what happened?

The second thing to pop into my mind:

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

She was really hot in that left pic era. 

[balthazar]

Sobering historical tidbit : the U.S. did not manufacture any Purple Heart medals for 25 YEARS after WWII, due to having a stockpile on hand for the possible invasion of Japan.

Read that, researching this : 

Seems to be the right size, weight, quality... but it's either a repro missing the enameled front, or it's a production reject- the hole for the loop to attach to a ribbon is not drilled thru- looks like that operation damaged it and it was rejected.

Edited September 10, 2021 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

Seems Chevrolet is tired of 3rd place in the full size truck game and a major update in refinement, quality and packages such as a ZR2 extreme off road package is coming on the 2022 Chevrolet Truck to compete against the Raptor and TRX.

GM's pickup money machine gets a technology tuneup | Reuters

[A Horse With No Name]

23 hours ago, riviera74 said:

A lot of our problems can be safely boiled down to a LOT of poor management and a lack of leadership, and not just in business.

Hmmm hmmm. I have made a ton of money in my adult life fixing things when other people didn't want to adult. 

Adulting is paradoxicly the easiest and ahrdest thing you can do. Reality addiction is another good habbit. 

1 hour ago, David said:

Seems GM is tired of 3rd place in the full size truck game and a major update in refinement, quality and packages such as a ZR2 extreme off road package is coming on the 2022 Chevrolet Truck to compete against the Raptor and TRX.

GM's pickup money machine gets a technology tuneup | Reuters

...and I love the ucrrent generation of GM full size trucks. I still do an automotive swoon when I see one. With the right package and color, the hair even stands up on my arm, and I get all kinds of warm fuzzies. 

15 hours ago, balthazar said:

Sobering historical tidbit : the U.S. did not manufacture any Purple Heart medals for 25 YEARS after WWII, due to having a stockpile on hand for the possible invasion of Japan.

Read that, researching this : 

Seems to be the right size, weight, quality... but it's either a repro missing the enameled front, or it's a production reject- the hole for the loop to attach to a ribbon is not drilled thru- looks like that operation damaged it and it was rejected.

Interesting on both counts. 

15 hours ago, balthazar said:

She was really hot in that left pic era. 

...and in the right picture....much less attractive than the current generation of GM trucks, even if size, weight, and so forth match...

16 hours ago, David said:

Yes all our favorites growing up are much older now.

She still looks good though, I think. 

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, David said:

GM is tired of 3rd place in the full size truck

??????

[G. David Felt]

23 minutes ago, balthazar said:

??????

That is what the news is saying that in sales of current generation full size trucks, Chevrolet is tired have being 3rd after Ram who has been 3rd for a long time passed them. I would think Chevrolet would want to seriously challenge and work to pass the first place leader Ford.

But then what do I know, I like to work hard and win, so 2nd and third place is just not my cup of tea.

Camaro Fans rejoice, seems the final singing of the Fat lady while not a Z/28 could be a 668HP BlackWing with manual transmission from Cadillac in the Camaro before it changes over to Electric.

2023 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 Might Get a Cadillac Blackwing Boost (motortrend.com)

NY City Municipal seems to be laying out what could be one of the largest EV charging networks of any city.

NYC DOT looks to build one of the largest EV charging networks in the US [Update] - Electrek

[balthazar]

Oh- you didn't say 'Chevrolet', you said "GM".

Silverado outsold Ram in Q4 2020 and ALL of 2020.

GM outsold Ford by a 59K units in Q4 2020. I don't know that the Silverado will ever pass the F-Series...

GM is doing very well / just fine (chip issue aside), and I don't think GM is "tired" on this.

- - - - - 
These 'Chevy vs. Ford' sales battles really amount to a lot of nothing.

Edited September 10, 2021 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Oh- you didn't say 'Chevrolet', you said "GM".

Silverado outsold Ram in Q4 2020 and ALL of 2020.

GM outsold Ford by a 59K units in Q4 2020. I don't know that the Silverado will ever pass the F-Series...

GM is doing very well / just fine (chip issue aside), and I don't think GM is "tired" on this.

- - - - - 
These 'Chevy vs. Ford' sales battles really amount to a lot of nothing.

Thanks, corrected it to say Chevrolet.

I would actually disagree with you that they amount to a lot of nothing. These sales battles I see them as needed to push brands moving forward and to better products than what they had. Sales battles either perceived as true or not help push a company in innovating. 

[Robert Hall]

The '22 Silverado interior update looks quite good.    Slight front end tweak also w/ new grille and big badge for some trims.

 

 

[balthazar]

Interior looks hella busy, but the 'leather-fondlers' will probably like it.
Too bad about the console shifter, but I'm reading elsewhere that the lower trims keep the proper column shifter. 
Console-shift in a pickup is a deal-breaker for me; takes up too much real estate. Also makes no sense.

That's the XR2 front end above, I get the skid plates but I'm not liking the grille texture.

2 hours ago, David said:

Sales battles either perceived as true or not help push a company in innovating. 

Sales battles primarily spur discounts & rebates. 

[trinacriabob]

On 9/9/2021 at 9:11 PM, David said:

 

Kathleen Turner is often discussed when it comes to this topic.

Here's one of the clips from provocative "Body Heat," a movie I have seen many times.

That's then.  Then, time marches on.

About 15 years ago or so, she was on Larry King and said she doesn't get any come ons.  And it sounded like she'd accept them!  (She reportedly has R.A. and all the meds caused her to put on a lot of weight.)

[G. David Felt]

15 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

The '22 Silverado interior update looks quite good.    Slight front end tweak also w/ new grille and big badge for some trims.

 

 

Interior is nice, but that Front end of a Cheese Grader is a head shaker! 

[surreal1272]

17 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

The '22 Silverado interior update looks quite good.    Slight front end tweak also w/ new grille and big badge for some trims.

 

 

The interior alone is a night and day difference over the outgoing one. It’s about time they made one that didn’t look like it came out of the Fisher Price collection. 

[surreal1272]

Nothing to be “confused” over @balthazar . I like the current Silverado over the other two,  overall. However, if Chevy is going to sell a $70K High Country to compete with the Ford Platinum and King Ranch, as well as the RAM Laramie models, then it should have an equal or better interior than the other two and as of now, no objective mind would dare that the High Country has a nicer looking interior than the other two. At least Chevy had the good sense to leave the work and base models alone (for now) because it’s less of a big deal with those. The high trims, however, are a whole other matter. 

[balthazar]

High Country; yes; more opulence is needed there (I drove one, I didn't think it was terrible... but it's not up to the competition via pic comparisons).

The middle-road trims interiors are very nice for the price tier, IMO. 

People forget how wretched the Ram Tradesman interiors are.

[G. David Felt]

So 2022 Chevrolet XR2 Interior

Ford 2021 F-150 Platinum Interior

Ford 2021 F-150 Limited

Ram 2021 Big Horn 

 

Interesting comparison on interiors, Big Horn Ram's top of the line starts with Premium Cloth seats and an up charge for Leather where Ford and Chevrolet start at leather and you have to move down to lower trim to get cloth options.

[trinacriabob]

Today is always a tough day.  It's hard to believe it even happened.  I remember where I was when I heard the news, what the day felt like, what the week felt like, what the month felt like ...  And that was 20 years ago.  It means I have not forgotten.  None of us can afford to forget this day 20 years ago.  

So, enjoy Sunday (tomorrow, 9/12) and have a good week.

 

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

The middle-road trims interiors are very nice for the price tier, IMO.

Nice? Sure, in some regards but not nicer than the others IMO and thats been the core gripe with this model since day one. These new interiors will include the LT models on up, leaving the older interior to the LS and work truck models, which is fine. Again, if it were priced cheaper than the than other two (all other features equal, mind you) then it probably not be such a big deal for some folks. It is not though and that is why GM finally gave it a proper update. 

48 minutes ago, David said:

Ram 2021 Big Horn 

That is not a RAM in the second pic. Still a Ford. Also the Big Horn is not their highest trim. That would be the Limited model which does include leather trimmed seats.

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Nice? Sure, in some regards but not nicer than the others IMO and thats been the core gripe with this model since day one.

Doesn’t have to be ‘nicer’; it has to be competitive. There is a range there, but the narrative nowadays is ‘If you ain’t first, you last’. Of course, opinions vary and the sales figures almost never bear out the ‘journalists’ opinions.
Kinda why I put more stock (if much of any) in sources that stick to one segment, like TFL truck. I don’t want to read a reviewer’s opinion on a -say- Buick SUV- when he just climbed out of a bentley the week before.

Edited September 11, 2021 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

BTW--the new trim level in the Silverado for 2022 is the ZR2, not XR2. Its described as an 'extreme off-road capable' model, similar to the Colorado ZR2.

 

https://jalopnik.com/the-2022-chevy-silverado-zr2-wants-to-be-the-most-truck-1847647549

Edited September 11, 2021 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Nice? Sure, in some regards but not nicer than the others IMO and thats been the core gripe with this model since day one. These new interiors will include the LT models on up, leaving the older interior to the LS and work truck models, which is fine. Again, if it were priced cheaper than the than other two (all other features equal, mind you) then it probably not be such a big deal for some folks. It is not though and that is why GM finally gave it a proper update. 

That is not a RAM in the second pic. Still a Ford. Also the Big Horn is not their highest trim. That would be the Limited model which does include leather trimmed seats.

 

Yes you are right that Limited is above the Big Horn, but then the XR2 and Ford Platinum are competing against the Big Horn and then Ford also has the top trim which is limited, but the second and 3rd pics are both Fords. I showed the Platinum and Limited as other than the seats on the Fords, the dash really is not any different between the two trims and I honestly think the XR2 dash from Chevrolet is as nice but IMHO nicer than the Ford Dash or the Ram. I think it will be very competitive.

I do see the confusion I caused by calling the Big Horn top of the line when for that trim the top of the line starts with Cloth and then later in the configurator you can option in Leather which is interesting. Sorry for the confusion. 

[Robert Hall]

8 minutes ago, David said:

Yes you are right that Limited is above the Big Horn, but then the XR2 and Ford Platinum are competing against the Big Horn and then Ford also has the top trim which is limited, but the second and 3rd pics are both Fords. I showed the Platinum and Limited as other than the seats on the Fords, the dash really is not any different between the two trims and I honestly think the XR2 dash from Chevrolet is as nice but IMHO nicer than the Ford Dash or the Ram. I think it will be very competitive.

I do see the confusion I caused by calling the Big Horn top of the line when for that trim the top of the line starts with Cloth and then later in the configurator you can option in Leather which is interesting. Sorry for the confusion. 

I think the ZR2 is targeting the Raptor and TRX, as a performance off-roader, though less over the top.   Not sure how the High Country compares to the Denali, Platinum and Limited.    Interesting, Ford has a Limited above the Platinum, and Ram has a Limited and Limited Long Horn.  I think the Big Horn is a lower level, below Lariat?  Hard to tell from the Ram site which doesn't have seem to list the trims from lowest to highest.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

Ram has 2 parallel truck liness: Rebel / TRX, and Tradesman / Tradesman HFE, Big Horn, Laramie, Limited Longhorn / Limited.

Ford F-150 Lariat : $45,045
Ram Big Horn : $37,390

Laramie would be closer to Lariat @ $42,080.

[Robert Hall]

Heh-heh. I meant Laramie when I said Lariat. These trucks have so many trim levels it gets confusing.  But lots of choice is a good thing. Same with some SUVs. 

[balthazar]

Yes; it's a lot. And it's good.

[surreal1272]

14 hours ago, balthazar said:

Doesn’t have to be ‘nicer’; it has to be competitive.

That interior was neither though, and that’s my point. 

[balthazar]

I completely disagree, the GM truck interiors have been absolutely competitive (aside, as I stated; from the top trim).

 

[A Horse With No Name]

On 9/10/2021 at 5:10 PM, balthazar said:

Oh- you didn't say 'Chevrolet', you said "GM".

Silverado outsold Ram in Q4 2020 and ALL of 2020.

GM outsold Ford by a 59K units in Q4 2020. I don't know that the Silverado will ever pass the F-Series...

GM is doing very well / just fine (chip issue aside), and I don't think GM is "tired" on this.

- - - - - 
These 'Chevy vs. Ford' sales battles really amount to a lot of nothing.

The product itself is fantastic. Were my wife to be more comfortable driving a full size pickup, one of these would be in my driveway. 

6 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I completely disagree, the GM truck interiors have been absolutely competitive (aside, as I stated; from the top trim).

 

I like both of these. 

11 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Heh-heh. I meant Laramie when I said Lariat. These trucks have so many trim levels it gets confusing.  But lots of choice is a good thing. Same with some SUVs. 

All three domestics are more up to date and comfortable than the tundra and titan. 

 

This young dude has it going on mentally. Huge props to him for his audiophile skills and life skills. 

 

Reviews from actual owners 

[surreal1272]

9 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I completely disagree, the GM truck interiors have been absolutely competitive (aside, as I stated; from the top trim).

 

Then I will disagree with that because I’ve sat and driven all three (at one point). The GM design looked dated from the start and felt cheap compared to the other two and literally every review of it (that wasn’t from a pro-GM fan site) since then has backed this up. Again, I should state that I would still take the Chevy, for many reasons, over the other two but the interior was not one of those. 

[surreal1272]

A snippet from a three way comparo that was done just three months ago. 
 

One of our test drivers described the Chevy's textured-plastic dash as "greasy and sweaty." Diehard Chevrolet fans could argue the pricier LTZ model would be a better match for the 2021 Ford F-150 Lariat and 2021 Ram 1500 Laramie we put it up against, but even the top-of-the-line Silverado High Country doesn't feel as upscale as the midlevel Ford and Ram we tested. 

[Robert Hall]

'greasy and sweaty'...interesting description.  I assume the recent trucks have been better than the old Fisher Price despair gray $1 plastic interiors that they put in everything from the Cavalier to Corvette, though.  

[surreal1272]

7 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

'greasy and sweaty'...interesting description.  I assume the recent trucks have been better than the old Fisher Price despair gray $1 plastic interiors that they put in everything from the Cavalier to Corvette, though.  

True but the progress made by GM over the years has been outpaced by both Ford and RAM and that has been the core problem. This new one, however, should completely change that notion. 

[balthazar]

Well, I bought one of those interiors, and trust me, it's neither "greasy" nor "sweaty" - those are bizarrely inapplicable terms here.

And even if they were (tho they're NOT), that seems to be what buyers want, seeing as how General Motors sold more of those interiors than Ford did last year. 

The bottom line is the interiors are 100% competitive with each other, and the minor subjectives get blown out of proportion due to the current nature of 'screaming' journalism. To wit; the nonsense terms quoted here. 

[surreal1272]

27 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Well, I bought one of those interiors, and trust me, it's neither "greasy" nor "sweaty" - those are bizarrely inapplicable terms here.

And even if they were (tho they're NOT), that seems to be what buyers want, seeing as how General Motors sold more of those interiors than Ford did last year. 

The bottom line is the interiors are 100% competitive with each other, and the minor subjectives get blown out of proportion due to the current nature of 'screaming' journalism. To wit; the nonsense terms quoted here. 

Do get offended here. I merely provided one example of what was going on there. For the record, Ford was also hit harder last year from the chip shortage. Furthermore, not sure using the sales argument is a good idea either. That’s an SMK move. 
 

And the bottom line is that they were not competitive or else they would not have given it a wholesale redesign during a mid-cycle refresh. 

Edited September 12, 2021 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

And again @balthazar, don’t conflate my argument or feel like I’m dogging your truck. That not even close to the case. However, I am also not blind and while I have said that I would take the GM over the other two, the interior would not even fall under the top ten reasons for doing so. I owned a Dodge Magnum for eight years for the same reasons. The interior design and quality were not the reasons for it. It’s that simple. 

[G. David Felt]

Interesting news stories out there:

Dems propose new $12,500 electric car rebate, Tesla left with $4,500 disadvantage - Electrek

Here are the main changes:

• Remove the 200,000 vehicles per manufacturer cap
• Keep the $7,500 incentive for new electric cars for 5 years
• Make the $7,500 incentive a point-of-sale discount instead of tax credit
  • EVs with battery pack smaller than 40 kWh are limited to a $4,000 incentive
• Add an additional $4,500 for EV assembled at union factories
• Add another $500 for EVs using battery packs with 50% of components (including cells) are made in the US
• After the first 5 years, the $7,500 becomes only for US-made electric vehicles and it applies for another 5 years.
• They are introduce price limits on the EVs eligible for the incentives:
  • Sedans under $55,000
  • SUVs under $69,000
  • Pickup trucks under $74,000
  • Vans under $54,000
• They are also introducing caps on income to get access to the incentives, but they are fairly high at an adjusted gross income of up to $400,000 for individuals and up to $800,000 for joint filers.

Seems like Subaru and Toyota will release identical BEVs uxcept for the badge.

See New Images Of The Subaru Solterra (insideevs.com)

Subaru

Toyota

Subaru Interior

Toyota Interior

Seems that rebadging will be it for Toyota/Subaru BEVs.

 

[balthazar]

 

24 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Do[n't] get offended here.

I'm not offended by your posts; I get frustrated by the journalistic swill out there.

1970s-1980-1990s there was a MUCH larger range of quality & amenities out there, and the comparison terms were justified. Today, there really are no 'shit' vehicles out there, but God forbid a review (now that there aren't just 4 or 5 reviews sources, but 200-300), the published result is 'Meh, these 3 are pretty great and we can't find much negative to split them over. Everyone ties for 1st place." How does a reviewer 'get heard' that way? Where's the clicks??

'Sweaty & greasy' is pure horseshit/garbage commentary. 

- - - - - 
I remember the Magnum- looked at one on the showroom floor for the wife years ago. Loved the exterior design, loved the innovative lift gate that extended into the roof... but even then when brand new, neither of us liked the interior.

[balthazar]

More old vehicle recycling : 
 

[G. David Felt]

38 minutes ago, balthazar said:

More old vehicle recycling : 
 

Why does the rear wheels look like they are at a 60 degree angle? ?

Even the rear of the car looks weird like Shrek crushed the trunk with a fist and the fenders and wheels tilted in at the top.

[balthazar]

It's a photo of a print photo laying on a table.

[surreal1272]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

'Sweaty & greasy' is pure horse$h!/garbage commentary

It’s called an opinion, nothing less nothing more. 

[surreal1272]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

 

I'm not offended by your posts; I get frustrated by the journalistic swill out there.

1970s-1980-1990s there was a MUCH larger range of quality & amenities out there, and the comparison terms were justified. Today, there really are no '$h!' vehicles out there, but God forbid a review (now that there aren't just 4 or 5 reviews sources, but 200-300), the published result is 'Meh, these 3 are pretty great and we can't find much negative to split them over. Everyone ties for 1st place." How does a reviewer 'get heard' that way? Where's the clicks??

'Sweaty & greasy' is pure horse$h!/garbage commentary. 

- - - - - 
I remember the Magnum- looked at one on the showroom floor for the wife years ago. Loved the exterior design, loved the innovative lift gate that extended into the roof... but even then when brand new, neither of us liked the interior.

I get what you are saying about reviews and such. However, I’m not just pulling one out of thin air to make my point. Over the last thirty years, GM has been rightfully dinged for lazy and cheap interiors. While the current pick ups showed improvement, they still lagged behind the other two. Again, this is not a debatable point when just about every review points this out. They are saying this for the hell of it or just get clicks. There is substance to it and there is truth to it whether you want to acknowledge that or not. 

[surreal1272]

59 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

They are NOT saying this for the hell of it or to only get clicks.

Corrected.

Edited September 12, 2021 by surreal1272

[Robert Hall]

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

 

I remember the Magnum- looked at one on the showroom floor for the wife years ago. Loved the exterior design, loved the innovative lift gate that extended into the roof... but even then when brand new, neither of us liked the interior.

the late 00s were a low point for Chrysler interiors...they were dreadful across the board...cheap, hard gray plastic.  It's like Daimler did everything to the lowest possible cost as far as interiors.