Random Thoughts Thread

[balthazar]

[ocnblu]

32 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I worked there 2006-2012.  Illustration shows the Keller Avenue side of the building.  Building still stands.  Last I heard, a used car dealership is going in there next.

[balthazar]

Car & Driver :

[balthazar]

Short-lived compact division of NASCAR :

[daves87rs]

6 hours ago, balthazar said:

Short-lived compact division of NASCAR :

Not used to something that small....

[USA-1]

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

Short-lived compact division of NASCAR :

148 whoppin' hp!

Funny how times have drastically changed. 750hp in today's Cup cars.

[balthazar]

^ Slant 6 banger with 'Hyper-Pack'.

'Real' NASCAR cars had around 425 HP / 175 MPH by '64.

[balthazar]

[balthazar]

Tortoise Beetle - 

[trinacriabob]

I wanted to wish the Canadians on the forum a Happy Thanksgiving (celebrated the second Monday of October).

And wish a Happy Columbus Day to anyone who celebrates it.  I do.  I'm thinking there won't be any parades in Little Italy neighborhoods anywhere this time around. But one can always pop into an Italian bakery.

Edited October 12, 2020 by trinacriabob

[A Horse With No Name]

On 10/3/2020 at 11:32 PM, balthazar said:

GTS :

My best friends dad bought one of these new, drag raced it for years. Kick ass ride!

18 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

I wanted to wish the Canadians on the forum a Happy Thanksgiving (celebrated the second Monday of October).

And wish a Happy Columbus Day to anyone who celebrates it.  I do.  I'm thinking there won't be any parades in Little Italy neighborhoods anywhere this time around. But one can always pop into an Italian bakery.

Italian bakery sounds fantastic.

On 10/10/2020 at 10:50 AM, balthazar said:

Car & Driver :

I would take it over the BMW or the Benz.

On 10/9/2020 at 3:58 PM, ccap41 said:

The Grand Wagoneer looks great, imo. 

Agree completely.

[A Horse With No Name]

 

[regfootball]

On 10/10/2020 at 9:50 AM, balthazar said:

Car & Driver :

I read that article.  i am glad it sort of Shames BMW for making the new 2 series on a front drive chassis.  2 series is what i equate to Pontiac EXCITEMENT!  A German Grand AM!!

[Robert Hall]

26 minutes ago, regfootball said:

I read that article.  i am glad it sort of Shames BMW for making the new 2 series on a front drive chassis.  2 series is what i equate to Pontiac EXCITEMENT!  A German Grand AM!!

The 2dr coupe and convertible 2 series are still RWD....the 4dr Gran Coupe is the FWD lease appliance.

[balthazar]

In reading the subjective ratings, it looks like the bmw falls into the 'lease appliance' on a lot of categories that have zero to do with which wheels are driven.

[Robert Hall]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

In reading the subjective ratings, it looks like the bmw falls into the 'lease appliance' on a lot of categories that have zero to do with which wheels are driven.

Nothing in that chart indicates *which* BMW or Mercedes are being discussed, so it's kind of pointless...

On 10/9/2020 at 11:29 AM, David said:

Seems Motor 1 is 99% sure on their rendering of the all New 2022 Jeep Grand Cherokee based on the spy shots from this story.
https://www.motor1.com/news/431338/2021-jeep-grand-cherokee-spied/

Leads them to think this is what we will see:

Which if true along with other renderings at the updated story makes this a very competitive and hot looking SUV.

https://www.motor1.com/news/447812/2022-jeep-grand-cherokee-renderings/

I like it..very subtle styling changes from the current WK2...

[Robert Hall]

Found the C&D article..they compared the CT4-v to the BMW 235i Gran Coupe and M-B AMG A35...odd comparison.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a34304375/2020-bmw-m235i-gran-coupe-vs-cadillac-ct4-v-mercedes-amg-a35/

The 235i Gran Coupe and A35 are both transverse engine appliances---...they should have compared against the  3 series and C-class which have the proper RWD sports sedan architecture like the CT4.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

'21 M3 starts at $70K- inapplicable in a test of "$50K sports sedans". FWD-based M235i is BMW's entry in this segment, for better... or in this case; worse.

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

'21 M3 starts at $70K- inapplicable in a test of "$50K sports sedans". FWD-based M235i is BMW's entry in this segment, for better... or in this case; worse.

Hilarious...a FWD shitbox w/ BMW badging..so wrong on so many levels.  Wrong for MB also...

[balthazar]

mercedes has been eyeballing the bottom-feeder segment for decades. They want to be the German General Motors, but seemingly cannot successfully swing the creation/management of a second brand.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

mercedes has been eyeballing the bottom-feeder segment for decades. They want to be the German General Motors, but seemingly cannot successfully swing the creation/management of a second brand.

This must have been what made them decide the SMART car was a good idea. LOL NOT!

[USA-1]

On 10/11/2020 at 7:07 AM, balthazar said:

^ Slant 6 banger with 'Hyper-Pack'.

'Real' NASCAR cars had around 425 HP / 175 MPH by '64.

For sure, but even that output pales in comparison to today's and those were BB numbers. "Old" hp numbers were much different with significantly higher low end output numbers at a lower rpm than high end numbers. It just shows how far the modern IC engine has come, fuel delivery, head design and flow, much higher compression ratio, free flow exhaust design etc..

[Robert Hall]

35 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

For sure, but even that output pales in comparison to today's and those were BB numbers. "Old" hp numbers were much different with significantly higher low end output numbers at a lower rpm than high end numbers. It just shows how far the modern IC engine has come, fuel delivery, head design and flow, much higher compression ratio, free flow exhaust design etc..

NASCAR is in it's own little world, though...their engines have little in common with real production IC engines...

[G. David Felt]

Acura NSX restoration program that is very active in Japan is being reviewed for use in the US. The program starts with a $1,200 detailed inspection cost by the dealership of your NSX, then once the review is done, you can choose from a wide variety of packages. If you go with a full restoration of the auto from the chassis on up, the cost is a whopping $140,000.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/first-gen-acura-nsx-us-restoration-program-report/

• Detailed Cleaning of Auto $2,500
• Seal replacements $1,000
• Suspension full replacement costs $21,000 to $24,000
• Engine overhaul costs $21,000 to $24,000

These are just some of the packages that will be available to NSX owners under the Restoration program.

Crazy Cost on an ICE auto. As nuts as everyone says on a EV conversion.  

Seems Oct. 14th 2020 is the reveal date for the ALL NEW MDX Concept. Seems it will have an all Digital dash, two tone steering wheel, they might call it a prototype, but it looks production ready from what can be seen.

 

[G. David Felt]

2021 Hyundai Santa Fe gets more power, more efficient engines and a all new Hybrid. There is also an all new Premium top line trim package.

• 2.5L 4 banger replaces the 2.4L base engine, Power increases by 6hp to 191 and increases 4 lb-ft to 182 lb-ft
• 8 sp tranny stays, but FWD increases 1mpg to 26 mpg combines, AWD stays at 24 mpg combined
• 2.0L turbo is replaced by 2.5L turbo with new dual clutch 8 sp tranny. Motor gains 42hp and 51 lb-ft of torque for total of 277 hp / 311 lb-ft of torque. A gain of 2 mpg for both FWD or AWD with Combined 25 mpg FWD or 24 mpg combined AWD.
• Hybrid MPG is not released yet but system has 224 HP and 195 lb-ft of torque via 6sp tranny with standard AWD.
• QUOTE:
  • Santa Fe is picking up a new range-topping trim called Calligraphy. It can be spotted from the outside by its unique grille and 20-inch wheels. Inside it gets Nappa leather upholstery, faux suede headliner, additional ambient lighting and an 8.5-inch heads-up display. It comes exclusively with the turbocharged 2.5-liter engine and all-wheel drive.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/10/12/2021-hyundai-santa-fe-engine-specs/

[G. David Felt]

GM has halted all C8 Corvette production due to parts shortage caused by the Pandemic.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/10/gm-runs-out-of-corvette-parts-production-paused/

[G. David Felt]

Per this report, FCA is going to start production on the Ram 700 for Central and South America. This is the all new replacement for what FCA has lived on for decades as the rebadged Mistubishi Might Max pickup. The Ram 700 is on a Global Platform that some believe would indicate that FCA could be jumping back into the compact Pickup Market .

Next year we get the 2022 Ram Dakota for the mid size market. The Ram 700 would allow them to also jump into the compact truck market before GM and on time with Ford releasing their compact truck.

Bed is designed for a natural partition system.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/10/could-the-ram-700-foreshadow-something-smaller-for-north-america/

Amazon Prime day starting tomorrow at Midnight.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/products/best-amazon-prime-day-deals/

[trinacriabob]

8 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Italian bakery sounds fantastic.

I am all about popping into (Italian) bakeries.  Perhaps too much so.

[ocnblu]

15 minutes ago, David said:

This is the all new replacement for what FCA has lived on for decades as the rebadged Mistubishi Might Max pickup.

The Ram 700 has been around since 2014 as a restyled, FWD-based unibody Fiat product.  This is a new version of it.  The Mitsubishi Mighty Max was a RWD-based, body-on-frame pickup built from 1983-1995.  Totally unrelated to each other.

Of course I love the single cab version of the new Ram 700.  I would buy one if it had the 1.3t 4 from the Renegade, and an uplevel trim package of some sort.

9 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

I am all about popping into (Italian) bakeries.  Perhaps too much so.

Are you sayin' you're POPPIN' FRESH?

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

NASCAR is in it's own little world, though...their engines have little in common with real production IC engines...

Now, and in recent decades- sure.

But not in the '50s-60s-'70s tho, they were OEM-designed engines, commonly OEM built. MoPar Hyper-Paks were built by Chrysler.

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by balthazar

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, USA-1 said:

For sure, but even that output pales in comparison to today's and those were BB numbers. "Old" hp numbers were much different with significantly higher low end output numbers at a lower rpm than high end numbers. It just shows how far the modern IC engine has come, fuel delivery, head design and flow, much higher compression ratio, free flow exhaust design etc..

Generally-speaking, yes.
But 425-450 HP in 1964 still pushed a block with the aerodynamics of a brick to 175 MPH on the track. These were large displacements (limited to 427 CI), circa '70 the large motors flirted with restrictor plates to compete more evenly with the 300-some CI motors coming up. 358 CI became increasingly common and soon; the displacement limit.

[USA-1]

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

Generally-speaking, yes.
But 425-450 HP in 1964 still pushed a block with the aerodynamics of a brick to 175 MPH on the track. These were large displacements (limited to 427 CI), circa '70 the large motors flirted with restrictor plates to compete more evenly with the 300-some CI motors coming up. 358 CI became increasingly common and soon; the displacement limit.

Yep, and had to do with the third member low gearing as well. It's about the only way they got those heavy old boats to move that fast while pushing redline in 4th gear. Talk about a deathtrap and suicide run every time they got in the car haha.

[balthazar]

Today a NASCAR racer is about 3200 lbs with 4.22 gears. In '67, the minimum car weight was 3500. Having trouble finding period axle ratios but seeing '64 Plymouth with 4.30 gears.
Compression then was commonly 11:1. A lot of similarities in the specs.

The monster advantage today is insane aerodynamics.
I looked around for period vs. modern cd numbers with little luck. A '69 Charger Daytona has a cd of .28, but as power & speeds rose, NASCAR utilized increased downforce, which also raises the cd. I'd still bet "air management" is the biggest difference in then vs. now.

Edited October 13, 2020 by balthazar

[USA-1]

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

NASCAR is in it's own little world, though...their engines have little in common with real production IC engines...

You'd be surprised how much the manufacturers that race cars use from those engines for current production models, especially with GM's LS/LT engines in the Corvette and Camaro. The Corvette C8.R shares many components in the chassis and engine with the production C8. The 2022 C8 Z06 will have the same 5.5L FPC 9k rpm V8 from the C8.R, but with even more horsepower. They get a lot of info. from the racing programs at NASCAR, IMSA and Indy, among others.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-chevrolet-corvette-z06-engine/

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29429819/chevy-corvette-c8-r-engine/

[USA-1]

10 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Today a NASCAR racer is about 3200 lbs with 4.22 gears. In '67, the minimum car weight was 3500. Having trouble finding period axle ratios but seeing '64 Plymouth with 4.30 gears.
Compression then was commonly 11:1. A lot of similarities in the specs.

The monster advantage today is insane aerodynamics.
Aero in the '60s didn't come into play until the 'Aero Wars' of '69, where a Charger Daytona had a cd of .28.

Definitely, a lot has to do with excellent aerodynamics in today's NASCAR race cars, but the traction system, latest in rubber compound tires and lower weight all comes into play.

Years ago I drove a full regulation 650 hp Chevy NASCAR on Vegas Motor Speedway with the Richard Petty Driving Experience. It's definitely an awesome experience. My hot lap was 148.7 mph with a framed certificate and all, one of the highest in a group of 30 in the class. I had a blast!  I highly recommend it if any of you get a chance.   

[Robert Hall]

42 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

You'd be surprised how much the manufacturers that race cars use from those engines for current production models, especially with GM's LS/LT engines in the Corvette and Camaro. The Corvette C8.R shares many components in the chassis and engine with the production C8. The 2022 C8 Z06 will have the same 5.5L FPC 9k rpm V8 from the C8.R, but with even more horsepower. They get a lot of info. from the racing programs at NASCAR, IMSA and Indy, among others.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-chevrolet-corvette-z06-engine/

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29429819/chevy-corvette-c8-r-engine/

I was thinking specifically of Ford and Toyota.  They don’t have pushrod V8s in their car lineups today...NASCAR is just about marketing for the automakers...the technology is ancient, they still have 4spd manuals and only recently got fuel injection.  I can't imagine automakers get much out of NASCAR that is applicable to production vehicles.. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Robert Hall

[USA-1]

41 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I was thinking specifically of Ford and Toyota.  They don’t have pushrod V8s in their car lineups today...

Guess again...and it's new from Ford. Something to be said about the venerable, reliable push-rod V8

https://www.dieselhub.com/specs/ford-7.3l-gas-v8.html

 

NASCAR is ancient tech.? Ah no, better study up! Here's some to start.

https://www.sportekz.com/motorsports/nascar-race-car-cost/

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by USA-1

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Guess again...and it's new from Ford. Something to be said about the venerable, reliable push-rod V8

https://www.dieselhub.com/specs/ford-7.3l-gas-v8.html

I knew you'd bring that shit up...that's only in trucks. I was talking about cars... nothing to do with Ford's performance DOHC V8s in the Mustang..

Edited October 13, 2020 by Robert Hall

[trinacriabob]

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Are you sayin' you're POPPIN' FRESH?

You use the icon for confused and down vote more than most forum members here.  That said, where's the icon for eye roll as a post rating when one needs it?

[trinacriabob]

On 10/4/2020 at 12:41 PM, Robert Hall said:

I love the look of the '69-73 fuselage Mopies...

For a laugh, most definitely.  I believe there's one coupe model (Polara, maybe) where the trunk lid is longer than the hood.  When I was a teenager, I knew a lady from Oklahoma with cat glasses and a thick accent who drove one.  She was a character and you'd almost have to be one to pick out one of these from the car lot.

[ocnblu]

5 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

You use the icon for confused and down vote more than most forum members here.  That said, where's the icon for eye roll as a post rating when one needs it?

You're right, we need one!

[A Horse With No Name]

13 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

I am all about popping into (Italian) bakeries.  Perhaps too much so.

If you are in Ohio we ought to meet some time.

8 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

For a laugh, most definitely.  I believe there's one coupe model (Polara, maybe) where the trunk lid is longer than the hood.  When I was a teenager, I knew a lady from Oklahoma with cat glasses and a thick accent who drove one.  She was a character and you'd almost have to be one to pick out one of these from the car lot.

I wrecked my bike into one of these as a teenager. Luckily, guy had just won a new car in a contest, and wasn't worried about his big Mopar.

11 hours ago, USA-1 said:

Guess again...and it's new from Ford. Something to be said about the venerable, reliable push-rod V8

https://www.dieselhub.com/specs/ford-7.3l-gas-v8.html

 

NASCAR is ancient tech.? Ah no, better study up! Here's some to start.

https://www.sportekz.com/motorsports/nascar-race-car-cost/

 

That pushrod V8 seems like it will be a very good truck motor.

[A Horse With No Name]

14 hours ago, David said:

GM has halted all C8 Corvette production due to parts shortage caused by the Pandemic.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/10/gm-runs-out-of-corvette-parts-production-paused/

I was just down at the Corvette Museum last week, could not do the plant tour because of COVID. Lots of people getting C8 Delivery at the Museum.

[ccap41]

19 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

Found the C&D article..they compared the CT4-v to the BMW 235i Gran Coupe and M-B AMG A35...odd comparison.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a34304375/2020-bmw-m235i-gran-coupe-vs-cadillac-ct4-v-mercedes-amg-a35/

The 235i Gran Coupe and A35 are both transverse engine appliances---...they should have compared against the  3 series and C-class which have the proper RWD sports sedan architecture like the CT4.

Yes, but they're larger and cost a bunch more. They'd likely wipe the floor with the compact CT4.

[Robert Hall]

10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Yes, but they're larger and cost a bunch more. They'd likely wipe the floor with the compact CT4.

Actually, the CT4 is larger than both the 3 series and C--class...comparing the CT4 to those RWD/AWD sedans makes a lot more sense than comparing it with the FWD appliances..

Edited October 13, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

So the Cadillac is a far better value.

[A Horse With No Name]

17 hours ago, David said:

2021 Hyundai Santa Fe gets more power, more efficient engines and a all new Hybrid. There is also an all new Premium top line trim package.

• 2.5L 4 banger replaces the 2.4L base engine, Power increases by 6hp to 191 and increases 4 lb-ft to 182 lb-ft
• 8 sp tranny stays, but FWD increases 1mpg to 26 mpg combines, AWD stays at 24 mpg combined
• 2.0L turbo is replaced by 2.5L turbo with new dual clutch 8 sp tranny. Motor gains 42hp and 51 lb-ft of torque for total of 277 hp / 311 lb-ft of torque. A gain of 2 mpg for both FWD or AWD with Combined 25 mpg FWD or 24 mpg combined AWD.
• Hybrid MPG is not released yet but system has 224 HP and 195 lb-ft of torque via 6sp tranny with standard AWD.
• QUOTE:
  • Santa Fe is picking up a new range-topping trim called Calligraphy. It can be spotted from the outside by its unique grille and 20-inch wheels. Inside it gets Nappa leather upholstery, faux suede headliner, additional ambient lighting and an 8.5-inch heads-up display. It comes exclusively with the turbocharged 2.5-liter engine and all-wheel drive.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/10/12/2021-hyundai-santa-fe-engine-specs/

Ford and Gm better watch their game, this is so much nicer than say an Escape...or a RAV 4 or CRV for that matter.

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Ford and Gm better watch their game, this is so much nicer than say an Escape...or a RAV 4 or CRV for that matter.

The Santa Fe is more Edge, Venza, Blazer sized but your point still stands. 

[USA-1]

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Ford and Gm better watch their game, this is so much nicer than say an Escape...or a RAV 4 or CRV for that matter.

HMC is clearly trying to position the Hyundai brand with Buick, Genesis with Cadillac and Kia is also clearly their entry level brand, but still not as nice as a Chevy or Honda CUV.

At least they know who to emulate or aspire to be, but still have work to do on their reliability and vehicle longevity.   

Edited October 13, 2020 by USA-1

[Robert Hall]

13 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

HMC is clearly trying to position the Hyundai brand with Buick, Genesis with Cadillac and Kia is also clearly their entry level brand, but still not as nice as a Chevy or Honda CUV.

At least they know who to emulate or aspire to be, but still have work to do on their reliability and vehicle longevity.   

Interesting...I always thought Hyundai was the entry level brand and Kia a step up.. and Kia has the interesting Stinger GT...