Random Thoughts Thread

[USA-1]

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

Tillamook Cheese Curds are the bomb too especially if battered and deep fried.  

I can hear your coronary arteries slamming shut from here! ?

[daves87rs]

5 hours ago, dfelt said:

 

Investors had an interesting report on 13 companies headed for a train wreck.

Ford is among these 13 companies. Looks like 5.2 billion lost for the Q2 on top of the last quarter. Over all sales are expected to be down 58% from a year ago and down 500% from it's 28 cents a share profit to a Negative $1.24 per share loss. OUCH

https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-funds/sectors/sp500-analysts-train-wreck-quarter-coming-companies-stocks/

Ford should have thought this one out for sure. Cars should have stuck around as quite a few folks will not be able to afford trucks, and the can’t give away the trucks by leasing right now either. This was my worry for them before things went bad......Worse part is one of their best products could fail now because few will able to afford it....

I’ll leave the unemployment thing alone- but I actually expect it to rise again before fall starts....

Also makes me question what other automakers will sell...they will need cheaper products to keep the companies going- as higher priced SUV/CUV and trucks will be unaffordable to most consumers as things start to really get rough. I think Honda and Toyota might be in better shape as they have the Civic/Accord and Camry/Corolla sedans they can sale price and ride out the storm with most of it’s product line in tact....

Lots of things happening now....

[USA-1]

43 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

Tillamook IS great stuff ... probably my favorite.  While I don't like their cheese curds, their ice cream flavors are outstanding.  It's great to visit their factory, take the tour (or not), have a cone or a cup with two or three flavors you know and/or are trying out, and, most of all, pick out some cheese cubes with the toothpicks (ah, yes, those were the days).  They have a white garlic or something cheese that is my favorite.  My mom always had a block of their medium cheddar in the fridge to put into her recipes.  

The only negative aspect is one.  And, no, it's not the rain.  That adds to the ambiance.  It's all the damn cows in and around Tillamook.  The area is chock full of them.  And you know what that means for your olfactory nerve.

Yeah, one big methane cloud around there that's for sure! But it's so worth it right?! Grew up in the Willamette Valley so we were just a short 1.5 hr. road trip to Tillamook.

[ocnblu]

7 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

And you know what that means for your olfactory nerve.

Awwww... need a clothes pin? 

[Robert Hall]

Went through Tillamook once..didn't get any cheese.  But did stop for gas..and discovered Oregon didn't have self serve.  Was very strange having someone else fill my rental car.

[riviera74]

11 hours ago, daves87rs said:

Ford should have thought this one out for sure. Cars should have stuck around as quite a few folks will not be able to afford trucks, and the can’t give away the trucks by leasing right now either. This was my worry for them before things went bad......Worse part is one of their best products could fail now because few will able to afford it....

I’ll leave the unemployment thing alone- but I actually expect it to rise again before fall starts....

Also makes me question what other automakers will sell...they will need cheaper products to keep the companies going- as higher priced SUV/CUV and trucks will be unaffordable to most consumers as things start to really get rough. I think Honda and Toyota might be in better shape as they have the Civic/Accord and Camry/Corolla sedans they can sale price and ride out the storm with most of it’s product line in tact....

Lots of things happening now....

The real issue is this: Ford and GM were not able to compete against Honda/Toyota in the sedan space as well as they could have.  The sales numbers in the last ten years or so prove that.  So Ford and GM largely ditch the sedans for the hot crossover market.  New cars in general are too expensive.  Whatever happened to the $20K midsize sedan (fully loaded)?  Now they want you to pay more like $30K and the crossover equivalent is an extra $5K on top of that.  The Camry/Accord have this problem now.  Chrysler can semi get away with it thanks to the 300/Charger/Challenger, but virtually all other FCA sedans are already off the market thanks to poor sales. Corolla/Civic can be quite pricey these days, but Hyundai/KIA will probably not allow that segment from being too pricey.

 

The used car market will probably take care of most customers for a long time to come since a lot of vehicles are leased rather than financed outright.  Once depreciation sets in, you could get an Avalon with about 40K miles for the price of a new fully loaded Corolla.  Ideally Ford and GM would actually have RWD sedans for those of us who would rather NOT have a crossover, but the market has spoken.  Five years from now, who knows?

[oldshurst442]

16 hours ago, dfelt said:

Toyota Supra Fans should love this, seems the new Supra will get a huge power bump as it takes in the M3 version 520HP motor into the Supra. 

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/167434

 

I clicked on the link...

 

Anyway.  I once praised the return of the Supra and I once liked the car's styling.

Well...that sentiment was short lived.  Even if it has a rockin engine going forward.  

Edited July 11, 2020 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

20 hours ago, balthazar said:

‘They’ say it’s tough to beat a Jersey tomater.

Ive never had a Jersey tomater.  Ill take your word for it.  But...Ive had fresh from the vine Greek island tomaters.  Let me tell you, those were/are very delish.  Just sayin'  

About Jersey.  

We recently viewed The Karate Kid.   Huge surprises in that movie.  Forgotten details and the like.  One of 'em is that Danielson comes from Newark.  I always thought he was from the Bronx...     Anyway, anytime I see New Jersey anywhere, I think of you.  And I say that with love.  

[G. David Felt]

Ouch

[oldshurst442]

 

[USA-1]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Ouch

Oh is this line graph about CARS?! Hmmm...

 

European CDC? Of course Europe looks good on this graph then. 

Va-China...Total BS numbers and have been since the beginning.

 

More supply and better test kits here in the U.S. and A TON more testing going on that's actually getting reported as well, so the numbers would coincide.

Also, don't forget that hospitals are making Millions of dollars on this Pandemic. Just saying the word Covid in a hospital right now practically makes taxpayer cash rain from the ceiling.

I'm not saying all hospitals top executives are crooked, but they're out there. 

"Jensen said, "Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for – if they're Medicare – typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000. But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000." "

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/finance/fact-check-hospitals-get-paid-more-if-patients-listed-covid-19-ventilators

 

I have neighbors involved at local Covid hospitals and false positive tests are still being found after more testing, even with our higher quality test kits. It's a sneaky b@stard bug. 

https://www.aafp.org/afp/2020/0701/p5a.html

Edited July 11, 2020 by USA-1

[oldshurst442]

 

The wallowing at about 1:14 is hilarious.  Good 'ole American land barges.  You gotta love 'em!   

[oldshurst442]

I listened to the "turning Japanese" song I posted.  Never liked the song back then so I wanted to hear it again for the first time to see why I didnt like it then with "mature" ears.

The 1980s had some great revolutionary sounds.  But it also had some god awful shyte too.  The turning Japanese song falls in the latter category.  ?

[riviera74]

50 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I listened to the "turning Japanese" song I posted.  Never liked the song back then so I wanted to hear it again for the first time to see why I didnt like it then with "mature" ears.

The 1980s had some great revolutionary sounds.  But it also had some god awful shyte too.  The turning Japanese song falls in the latter category.  ?

That is a problem in every decade of popular music.  The last ten years or so . . . . . more lame than good.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

I listened to the "turning Japanese" song I posted.  Never liked the song back then so I wanted to hear it again for the first time to see why I didnt like it then with "mature" ears.

The 1980s had some great revolutionary sounds.  But it also had some god awful shyte too.  The turning Japanese song falls in the latter category.  ?

We find goofy music from every era.  

Very cool story about a fleet of 18 Mercury Marauders that were specialized and donated to the Florida Police. Could go 150 mph with no vibration, upgraded brakes, etc.  Wish they built and sold this as the true marauder, that would have been hot.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/34755/the-legend-of-the-fhp-mercury-marauder-the-fastest-and-rarest-panther-of-them-all

[G. David Felt]

Seems ahead of the reveal Monday, the two door bronco leaked.

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/this-is-it-2021-bronco-with-top-off-doors-removed-sand-in.1676/

More Bronco leaked images here: https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/mid-day-2021-bronco-and-bronco-sport-teasers.1670/

Hate to say it, while I was excited for this Bronco, it looked dated already. Too Retro. Bummer

This so reminds me of the 70's before everyone was trying to save you in your auto.

https://jalopnik.com/being-a-kid-was-just-a-little-more-fun-before-parents-r-1844342712

Cool editorial about buying old cars.

https://jalopnik.com/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-buy-an-older-model-as-a-daily-drive-1844334210

[ocnblu]

Diehard Chevy guy @ work (he owns an '18 Z71 Colorado just like my '19) is talking about defecting to Ford for a Bronco 2 door.  I'm excited about it too!  This is going to be EPIC.

[ocnblu]

USA-1 - he "hates" the 8 speed transmission in his truck.

Also we just worked on one in the shop, (I wrote the estimate and he repaired it) and we could not believe how much crap (leaves, dirt, etc) that made its way into the nooks and crannies (inside the fenders, between the grille and radiator support) of the truck... that is a blatant invitation for rust-out in a few years.

I like my Colorado, but the Bronco is straight-up on my radar.

[oldshurst442]

38 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

that is a blatant invitation for rust-out in a few years.

You never keep your vehicles that long...

In fact, the second they are broken in. You ditch and move unto a new ride...   ?

[USA-1]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

USA-1 - he "hates" the 8 speed transmission in his truck.

Also we just worked on one in the shop, (I wrote the estimate and he repaired it) and we could not believe how much crap (leaves, dirt, etc) that made its way into the nooks and crannies (inside the fenders, between the grille and radiator support) of the truck... that is a blatant invitation for rust-out in a few years.

I like my Colorado, but the Bronco is straight-up on my radar.

Ah. I hear ya. I had a 2017 Colorado Z71 for a year and a half and went back to a Silverado Z71. Colorado just wasn't enough room for me and the Silvy rides a lot better than the Colorado. Seemed like a good little truck though.  

[trinacriabob]

Here are some sightings of a different variety ... food.

This morning's breakfast - omelette with feta, tomatoes, spinach, and mushrooms as well as potatoes and wheat toast

 

My first visit to a casino lunch buffet last week where the rules have changed - table distance, paper cups instead of ceramic mugs, masked employees, and most noticeable of all ... the sign saying "Let Us Serve You," where they dish out the food cafeteria style.  And this was just my Italian plate (chicken parmigiana, cannelloni, gnocchi, fettucine, and some other items).  They said they had less selection than before but it looked pretty good to me.  So did the price!

Edited July 12, 2020 by trinacriabob
forgot one type of pasta!

[daves87rs]

15 hours ago, riviera74 said:

The real issue is this: Ford and GM were not able to compete against Honda/Toyota in the sedan space as well as they could have.  The sales numbers in the last ten years or so prove that.  So Ford and GM largely ditch the sedans for the hot crossover market.  New cars in general are too expensive.  Whatever happened to the $20K midsize sedan (fully loaded)?  Now they want you to pay more like $30K and the crossover equivalent is an extra $5K on top of that.  The Camry/Accord have this problem now.  Chrysler can semi get away with it thanks to the 300/Charger/Challenger, but virtually all other FCA sedans are already off the market thanks to poor sales. Corolla/Civic can be quite pricey these days, but Hyundai/KIA will probably not allow that segment from being too pricey.

 

The used car market will probably take care of most customers for a long time to come since a lot of vehicles are leased rather than financed outright.  Once depreciation sets in, you could get an Avalon with about 40K miles for the price of a new fully loaded Corolla.  Ideally Ford and GM would actually have RWD sedans for those of us who would rather NOT have a crossover, but the market has spoken.  Five years from now, who knows?

Well, the good news is that the sedans can take the beating for the product lines, and in the case of the Camry/Accord- still keep their rep in tact. They will sell less overall- but can offer leases that will still get butts in seats to keep things going for the companies until things are able to pick up again.

The Malibu could do the same for GM...keep it and keep it affordable for the customers who are more priced based right now- so GM can still move metal. This also would be better if they still had the Cruze- they could have had an affordable, almost “cavalier” deals (remember how cheap they were?) so they could keep those customers in house- and the hatchback would have really come in handy. Too bad GM simply didn’t switch plants ( Equinox to Lordstown, Cruze to Mexico) as they could still have made money on both......

Ford? Well, since the Fusion is gone- Nissan might not be the only automaker giving stuff away.....

People are going to be forced to buy what they can afford again- and can still make memories in a sedan.....

[ocnblu]

5 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

Here are some sightings of a different variety ... food.

This morning's breakfast - omelette with feta, tomatoes, spinach, and mushrooms as well as potatoes and wheat toast

 

My first visit to a casino lunch buffet last week where the rules have changed - table distance, paper cups instead of ceramic mugs, masked employees, and most noticeable of all ... the sign saying "Let Us Serve You," where they dish out the food cafeteria style.  And this was just my Italian plate (chicken parmigiana, cannelloni, gnocchi, fettucine, and some other items).  They said they had less selection than before but it looked pretty good to me.  So did the price!

Well now, to keep the C&G ship on an even keel, I will need to eat 4 ounces of steamed chicken breast, two tablespoons of boiled brown rice, and one steamed broccoli floret for lunch.

Edited July 12, 2020 by ocnblu

[ocnblu]

[balthazar]

[balthazar]

[balthazar]

General Motors had 1,287 dealers in NY State in 1939.
In 2019, the total was 179.

[balthazar]

1939 market share of GM: 42.7%

[Robert Hall]

28 minutes ago, balthazar said:

1939 market share of GM: 42.7%

2019 market share of GM: 16.9%.   A lot of change over 80 years.

[balthazar]

^ Inevitability.

[G. David Felt]

27 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

2019 market share of GM: 16.9%.   A lot of change over 80 years.

One has to wonder with all the new startups and china pushing to expand outside china, what the numbers for everyone will end up being in 10 years.

Current as of Q2 2020:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/343162/market-share-of-major-car-manufacturers-in-the-united-states/

Global market share:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/316786/global-market-share-of-the-leading-automakers/

One has to wonder about the thinking of the badge snobs when Mercedes is below Chevrolet in global market share.

@smk4565 As much as you talk about how great MB is globally, they have smaller market share than many other lesser brands. Care to try to explain that?

QUESTION to EVERYONE!

What do you think it will take for an AMERICAN Auto Company Ford or GM to be truly global again?

[Robert Hall]

4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

 

What do you think it will take for an AMERICAN Auto Company Ford or GM to be truly global again?

Not going to happen....Ford will still be marginally global, but GM has been withdrawing from markets around the world...I think GM will be NA only within a decade.

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Not going to happen....Ford will still be marginally global, but GM has been withdrawing from markets around the world...I think GM will be NA only within a decade.

NA and China only with Chevrolet the global brand maybe?

[Robert Hall]

2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

NA and China only with Chevrolet the global brand maybe?

I could see them pulling out of China..no future there.

[G. David Felt]

5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I could see them pulling out of China..no future there.

Really? They are leading with Buick and have so much invested, so your saying GM will walk away from the market and investments they made there?

[Robert Hall]

8 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Really? They are leading with Buick and have so much invested, so your saying GM will walk away from the market and investments they made there?

I can't imagine why any Western company continues to do business with China.  Their government is getting more and more powerful and authoritarian...it's time for Western companies to leave, IMO.   

Nothing of value left of Buick at this point, just a bunch of platform shared FWD generics...same appliances sold as Chevy and GMC with different styling.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I can't imagine why any Western company continues to do business with China.  Their government is getting more and more powerful and authoritarian...it's time for Western companies to leave, IMO.   

Nothing of value left of Buick at this point, just a bunch of platform shared FWD generics...same appliances sold as Chevy and GMC with different styling.

I agree with you on the Generic FWD/AWD platforms that is shared with Chevy/GMC. 

I think while your right about the Power Surge of the communist in China, it is still a good way to have the US in a positive light of selling our products there rather than walk away from a market that makes up 1/5th of the world population. I think we need to fight to show democracy everywhere. Just need better leadership to see a global vision of growth at GM and a plan on how to accomplish that.

[riviera74]

5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I can't imagine why any Western company continues to do business with China.  Their government is getting more and more powerful and authoritarian...it's time for Western companies to leave, IMO.   

Nothing of value left of Buick at this point, just a bunch of platform shared FWD generics.

China's government is already quite authoritarian.  Western companies will not leave because they believe there is too much money to be made there.  By the time they think it is time to leave, it will be too late.

As for Ford or GM to be truly global automakers, that time has unfortunately passed.  VW Group and Toyota are essentially protected at home in a way that Ford and GM never were.  Both will stand astride the world like a colossus while Ford and GM are essentially second-tier players.

[oldshurst442]

33 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

VW Group and Toyota are essentially protected at home in a way that Ford and GM never were.

In Europe...  the countries that build cars, their folk are fiercely loyal to their home market.   Germans never think about buying anything but German.  The French never think about buying anything but French and so on.   In Germany, the German car factories are heavily subsidized by the German governments while the unions protect the German auto worker to degrees that the UAW will never see in America DESPITE what we think about the UAW in North America... 

The Japanese too.  Same story in Japan as with Germany...

The one European country that poo pooed their automotive industry is the one that does not have an automotive industry to call their own anymore.  And laughably, British TV and British automobile journalism diss American cars and even MORE laughably STILL try to insist that Rolls Royce and Bentley are English makes. Just because manufacturing is still being done in the UK...

I see the similarities with the UK in the US with how Americans view their own automobile industry...and watch-out...the American car industry is not that far off in emulating the one in Britain...especially during this pandemic. Chrysler is already in foreign hands...

And what is funnier....AND SCARIER...is that Americans not only poo poo their own phoquing industry HARDER than the Brits done with their car industry, at least the Brits have the illusion that their marques are still British.  The sad and scary  part is that Americans dont think that American cars are...American...but rather think that Japanese cars made in America are indeed American.  To go further than that, American built German cars...remain to be German. 

Americans will bitch and moan about the UAW and will bitch and moan about the American factory worker yet still want American car manufacturing to return back to America, yet most Americans poo poo the American built car but wont poo poo the foreign American made products. They call those American...  

It boggles my mind how far this mess has gone since the 1970s oil crisis hit America.  

It boggles my mind how we all have poo pooed American cars during the last 40 phoquing years yet we still praise foreign cars yet WE KNOW that foreign cars were JUST AS BAD, IF NOT WORSE then those shytty American cars.  

Toyota went down a path in the late 1990s-mid 2000s that was JUST AS BAD, if NOT WORSE as GM's path was in the 1970s, yet here we are...we still poo poo on GM yet we phoquing praise Toyota.

 

AMERICA....GET YER SHYTE FIXED!!!  GET YOUR HEADS SCREWED ON PROPERLY. YA"LL MISSING A FEW SCREWS!!!

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, Robert Hall said:

2019 market share of GM: 16.9%.   A lot of change over 80 years.

 

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

^ Inevitability.

Its just shouldnt BE that way.

Id like to know if Mercedes has EVER lost THAT much market share in Germany or Toyota/Honda in Japan.

And while yes, America's capitalism doesnt allow for protectioni...   HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! 

Boeing and dairy and lumber and this current administration tells me otherwise but that is something that I already knew. It comes as a surprise to many though.  Its just that this current administration  blew the door wide open and exposed America's protectionist policies...

The problem though lies with some bulshyte Boomer and hippy asshats that have it in for American cars since the early to mid 1970s.  Vietnam war being the culprit.  Gas guzzling American muscle cars and land yachts and V8-6-4 Cimarrons are just the excuse.  My honest opinion... 

 

 

 

[Robert Hall]

31 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I see the similarities with the UK in the US with how Americans view their own automobile industry...and watch-out...the American car industry is not that far off in emulating the one in Britain...especially during this pandemic. Chrysler is already in foreign hands...  

Though FCA is a foreign-owned company, they are pretty much the only 'American' car maker I can see myself buying products from in the near future..not really much at Ford or GM I find that interesting. 

[oldshurst442]

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Though FCA is a foreign-owned company, they are pretty much the only 'American' car maker I can see myself buying products from in the near future..not really much at Ford or GM I find that interesting. 

I hear you.   I feel the same.  Other than a C8 Corvette,  Cadillac CT5-V, Mustang and the upcoming Bronco and Mach E, I feel no real pride for FoMoCo or GM.   Fullsized trucks are cool. Im still getting warm to them. Not there yet 100%

Take my two rants with a grain of salt.  I soooooo much love American cars that I get emotional when market share or reliability is a topic, and I go off the deep end.   Ill take a jab at GM or American cars myself when the topic is ONLY focused on GM or American cars in general.  But when the world's cars are concern, Ill defend Americana like nothing else. 

My two rants above are very emotionally charged diatribes.  Comical, cartoony, slippery slidey on the facts. I understand that.  But my two rants are not that far off the truth either.  And it comes straight from my heart. 

[Robert Hall]

52 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I hear you.   I feel the same.  Other than a C8 Corvette,  Cadillac CT5-V, Mustang and the upcoming Bronco and Mach E, I feel no real pride for FoMoCo or GM.   Fullsized trucks are cool. Im still getting warm to them. Not there yet 100%

Take my two rants with a grain of salt.  I soooooo much love American cars that I get emotional when market share or reliability is a topic, and I go off the deep end.   Ill take a jab at GM or American cars myself when the topic is ONLY focused on GM or American cars in general.  But when the world's cars are concern, Ill defend Americana like nothing else. 

My two rants above are very emotionally charged diatribes.  Comical, cartoony, slippery slidey on the facts. I understand that.  But my two rants are not that far off the truth either.  And it comes straight from my heart. 

The C8, Camaro, CT5-V,  the late CT6, Escalade, Mustang, Aviator, Navigator and upcoming Bronco are all interesting,  as far as buying, .I can see myself getting another Grand Cherokee and a Challenger R/T down the road, maybe another Mustang GT.... not anything new, but a CPO to avoid the depreciation.

Beyond those, there is so little left for me to get excited about w/ American vehicles...just a bunch of forgettable appliances and ugly trucks...not that different than the appliances churned out by the Korean and Japanese brands.  Boring.   Though there are a few Japanese and European cars I like a lot. 

 I guess just don't care enough anymore to get too 'emotionally charged'..  

Edited July 12, 2020 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, David said:

I think while your right about the Power Surge of the communist in China, it is still a good way to have the US in a positive light of selling our products there rather than walk away from a market that makes up 1/5th of the world population. I think we need to fight to show democracy everywhere. Just need better leadership to see a global vision of growth at GM and a plan on how to accomplish that.

That starts at home...

 

1 hour ago, David said:

positive light of selling our products there rather than walk away from a market that makes up 1/5th of the world population.

Making a deal with the Devil is never a good thing.  Like I said...its starts from home.  But its tooo late now.  China's technology today has learned from the decades of reverse engineering and corporate secret theft that China's tech could actually stand on its own...   Any forcible technology sharing that the Chinese government implicates now is just icing on the cake...

 

1 hour ago, David said:

Just need better leadership to see a global vision of growth at GM and a plan on how to accomplish that.

 American CEOs in ANY industry have gotten to the point today where they ALL focus in ALL the WRONG things and implicate ALL the WRONG plans.

Its all about cost cutting. Which is a good thing. I guess. But the costs that are actually cut are the WRONG types of cost.  Payroll.  We North Americans view the working soul as the enemy of capitalism.  We view the payroll as the number 1 cost cutting measure. We do NOT invest IN the worker for the WORKER to be PROUD of what he produces and for him/her to be PROUD of his/her working environment and his/her work ethics and the QUALITY of work to be had...  And its only natural.  When North American society CONTINUES on RAGGING about how shyte, how lazy, how NOT worthy the AMerican worker is, well, obviously the end result of the American worker WILL be a worker that is shyte, lazy and NOT worth a piss.

When American CEOs care NOT about the product itself , but about how cheapening it to wield better cost per production...

When American CEOs and American corporate thinking is JUST about the quarterly stock shares JUST to cater to the monthly dividends that the shareholders demand and all else takes a back seat...when insider trading and all kinds of questionable moral scruples surround American corporate ideologies...

When CEOs make tons of phoquing money because "they deserve it" or they are "smarter" than the rest of us and when they bankrupt the phoquing companies and we ALLOW them to STILL rake in their huge year end bonuses.

When we allow offshore accounts

When we allow tax loopholes

When we have ALLOWED our phoquing companies to move out of this country (yours and mine...Canada) in the FIRST PHOQUING PLACE...

 

 

I think Ive mad ranted enough today.  Believe it or nor....I AM in a good mood.  Very happy!!! 

Its just that, there is sooooooo much wrong with American business that Im afraid, its just toooo phoquing late to start fixing anything.  No amount of Making America Great again chants will fix the mess that corporate America done for itself the last 40 years.   American corporations  have  woven themselves tooooo deep in other countries' economics and have forgotten their home territory that its tooo late for that to solve itself.  

In the car industry, toooo many Americans for toooooo long are salty towards their own that Im afraid, that that too, is too ,late to solve.   So much so that even Tesla, gets poo pooed...IN THE US...by some Americans...  Mind phoquing boggling.

Tesla gets poo pooed by V8 loyalists.

Tesla gets poo pooed by coal lovin' rednecks.  

Tesla gets poo pooed by GM, Ford loyalists

Tesla gets poo pooed by crazy righties JUST because they think crazy lefties love Tesla...in phoquing spite... Mind phoquing boggling...

Tesla gets poo pooed by self hatin' Americans JUST because Tesla has a very strong following by other Americans JUST because Tesla has thrown a wrench at the status quo...  mind phoquing boggling...

Yet Tesla...is AMERICAN...

No phoquing American pride yet MAGA hats (nothing political...just the image of MAGA hats)  and waving of the Star Spangled Banner is all I see yet underlying self hatred is what I also see...   Mind phoquing boggling it is...

 

 

[Robert Hall]

I like Tesla, but I do think they cut corners quite a bit on some aspects of their products..by and large, I find their interiors disappointing.  For luxury priced vehicles, they don't seem very luxury inside... 

[oldshurst442]

The state of American business...

Some Americans give tooo much importance  to what Elon Musk has to say on Twitter...and they equate that to Tesla products...

Good or bad. 

Musk promises fields of dreams. The corporate world and the media world praise the phoquer and they equate that to Tesla products in the form of smoke and mirror Tesla stocks.  

Others see the shyte he says on Twitter and they try to equate that shyte to the products he produces and say that Tesla cars are shyte.

The problem is...that REALITY is SELDOM a criteria to which Tesla is judged by.  Both good and bad.

American business, politics, entertainment.   Its all garbage television.  Its reality TV.  Its the OJ Simpson Trial. Its the Kardashians. Its Jersey Shore.    Its pathetic....

Hence Musk with his field of dreams promises and Twitter responses and podcast interviews smoking doobies.

Hence President Trump actually doing the same phoquing thing the last 4 years.  

Remember, Trump was also a reality TV superstar...

Dont go giving me downvotes.  Reflect on what I have said.  See about GM losing market share in the US mainly to Japanese car companies and the China dilemma  on US economy and world political stage and see how all the shyte I said and how it blends together...    I may be crazy for thinking this way...yet Im not wrong in a strange and scary way...

 

[oldshurst442]

15 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I like Tesla, but I do think they cut corners quite a bit on some aspects of their products..by and large, I find their interiors disappointing.  For luxury priced vehicles, they don't seem very luxury inside... 

Yet...we have argued in the past about what constitutes luxury.  And yet...Tesla's luxury is not about opulence. Its about technology.   

We all know how pricey this technology is to produce. And we all know that EVs just cant be sold at regular Joe prices as  its impossible to yield what is necessary for a business to survive...PROFITS.

Its the Corvette argument for Tesla.  

Tesla could hire a few Italian leather makers and get a few of the best high spec tolerance production guys out there and price their vehicles in the 250 000 dollar range and make themselves into a boutique car maker...

But THAT is not what the founders of Tesla wanted of its cars and their marketing plan reflects that. So...pricing had to come down to the luxury level. NOT the UBER luxury level. But THAT means certain things have to be compromised.  

And although we might find certain things in a Tesla disappointing,  the marketing plan, the pricing is something that we could say is working out well for Tesla.

We are indeed paying for the tech. NOT for the opulence.

Like a Corvette. We are paying for the technology and the performance and the image the Corvette has given us for the past 60 years. Not for the fine italian leather...   Yet the C8 has given us that too.   But...Tesla is NOT 60 years old though...

But dont get me wrong.  I UNDERSTAND FULLY WHERE YOU COME FROM.  IM JUST DEFENDING TESLA. I AM NOT TRYING TO PICK A FIGHT WITH YOU. 

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

I find that is a strong reason I work for Dell Technologies. Multi-Cultural diverse work environment with a strong drive for equality regardless of orientation. They drive for us to stay relevant with training while we drive the bleeding edge of tech Globally.

An American Company that invests in their employees to make a global difference. It is why #iworkfordell

Tesla has some great Tech, I just find their Style to be a failure, interiors to be a failure and their narcissist's CEO to be repugnant to the point that I will wait for something else (RIVIAN, Ford Mach e, GM Hummer) before I spend my hard earned Dollars on an EV.

[Robert Hall]

I get that Tesla has great technology...being in tech and all I should be a customer of theirs, but their products just don't really appeal to me..I may eventually have an EV...let's see what the market is like in 10 years.    

[oldshurst442]

5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I get that Tesla has great technology...being in tech and all I should be a customer of theirs, but their products just don't really appeal to me..I may eventually have an EV...let's see what the market is like in 10 years.    

Im the same.

I LOVE Telsa's tech.  I get excited by their products.  But not enough emotional charge to spend my money on.  Something is a miss for me regarding Tesla products.  The X-Factor for me is missing.  The styling is not to my liking enough for me to drive with pride.  

Im definitely not thinking like @David  that their styling is a failure. Maybe a notch above your thinking that the products dont appeal to you enough.  Im OK with their styling.  But not OK enough to spend my good, hard working coin on.

Their interiors dont bother me.  Im cool with that.  Well...the Model S' interior Im good with.  The Model 3 and Y's direction of a computer screen for all really bothers me.  More so now then then.  

I too, will buy an EV.  Yeah...like you, we will see what the next 10 years will give us. 

PS:  I ignore all social media shyte.  No matter who is speaking to us through social media.  Even Trump.   I think Trump is trolling his haters on Twitter.   He knows he has detractors so he lets loose.  He also knows he has followers that love him on Twitter.  So...he lets loose on Twitter.   He is NOT a stupid man.  He knows advertising...