Random Thoughts Thread

[Robert Hall]

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

I suspect Robert Hall looks upon these like some folk believe the Moon landing was faked; 'How could it be real when I didn't experience it'?  

Durham NC 1940 :

They didn't have color back then, only shades of gray in the ancient world... <j/k>

8 hours ago, daves87rs said:

Was searching something car related, and something C&G came up.

Clicked on it....

Makes me realize how many members we have had over the years.....both good and bad.

Dang, I’ve been here a long time.... ? 

Yeah... i do wonder how some of our past members are doing and where they are today..like Drew, our MIA leader...

Edited June 4, 2020 by Robert Hall

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

They didn't have color back then, only shades of gray in the ancient world... <j/k>

Yeah... i do wonder how some of our past members are doing and where they are today..like Drew, our MIA leader...

I did get a response from @Drew Dowdell He has been dealing with other stuff but he says we will see him around more as he does some maintenance and other stuff.

I also have to think as he did loose his job that job hunting right now is hard. Over all, am looking forward to seeing him around in the near future.

 

Saw this on YouTube and I have to say I agree with the guys laughing at this turd. I see so many Subaru STI / WRX do this and they deserve to get nailed.

 

[G. David Felt]

In 2019 the largest investment in oil refinery was finally allowing gas production to catch up to consumer consumption, then the Pandemic hit and Covid-19 brought people moving about to a halt. With that change and especially here in the US with everyone under shelter in place orders for the last 10 weeks, Electricity has become the biggest cost to a persons budget for the first time ever over oil / gas according to the latest reports from IEA (International Energy Agency)

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1128365_energy-investment-to-drop-20-in-2020-a-turning-point-toward-greening-the-grid

Oil amounted to 50% of consumer spending on energy and electricity was 38%. World Wide oil consumption is expected to drop by over $1 Trillion dollars due to the pandemic.

Due to a huge consumer change in taste to trucks and SUV's/CUV's auto efficiency took a significant hit in 2019. 

Lots of interesting details in this IEA report story.

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-energy-review-2020

To quote the story:

Global energy demand declined by 3.8% in the first quarter of 2020, with most of the impact felt in March as confinement measures were enforced in Europe, North America and elsewhere.

• Global coal demand was hit the hardest, falling by almost 8% compared with the first quarter of 2019. Three reasons converged to explain this drop. China – a coal-based economy – was the country the hardest hit by Covid‑19 in the first quarter; cheap gas and continued growth in renewables elsewhere challenged coal; and mild weather also capped coal use.
• Oil demand was also hit strongly, down nearly 5% in the first quarter, mostly by curtailment in mobility and aviation, which account for nearly 60% of global oil demand. By the end of March, global road transport activity was almost 50% below the 2019 average and aviation 60% below.
• The impact of the pandemic on gas demand was more moderate, at around 2%, as gas-based economies were not strongly affected in the first quarter of 2020.
• Renewables were the only source that posted a growth in demand, driven by larger installed capacity and priority dispatch.
• Electricity demand has been significantly reduced as a result of lockdown measures, with knock-on effects on the power mix. Electricity demand has been depressed by 20% or more during periods of full lockdown in several countries, as upticks for residential demand are far outweighed by reductions in commercial and industrial operations. For weeks, the shape of demand resembled that of a prolonged Sunday. Demand reductions have lifted the share of renewables in the electricity supply, as their output is largely unaffected by demand. Demand fell for all other sources of electricity, including coal, gas and nuclear power.

All fuels will be affected:

• Oil demand could drop by 9%, or 9 mb/d on average across the year, returning oil consumption to 2012 levels.
• Coal demand could decline by 8%, in large part because electricity demand will be nearly 5% lower over the course of the year. The recovery of coal demand for industry and electricity generation in China could offset larger declines elsewhere.
• Gas demand could fall much further across the full year than in the first quarter, with reduced demand in power and industry applications.
• Nuclear power demand would also fall in response to lower electricity demand.
• Renewables demand is expected to increase because of low operating costs and preferential access to many power systems. Recent growth in capacity, some new projects coming online in 2020, would also boost output.

[USA-1]

6 hours ago, dfelt said:

 Over all, am looking forward to seeing him around in the near future.

 

Someone needs to keep you big kids on here in check that's for sure. Running amok!! ?

[USA-1]

10 minutes ago, dfelt said:

In 2019 the largest investment in oil refinery was finally allowing gas production to catch up to consumer consumption, then the Pandemic hit and Covid-19 brought people moving about to a halt. With that change and especially here in the US with everyone under shelter in place orders for the last 10 weeks, Electricity has become the biggest cost to a persons budget for the first time ever over oil / gas according to the latest reports from IEA (International Energy Agency)

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1128365_energy-investment-to-drop-20-in-2020-a-turning-point-toward-greening-the-grid

Oil amounted to 50% of consumer spending on energy and electricity was 38%. World Wide oil consumption is expected to drop by over $1 Trillion dollars due to the pandemic.

Due to a huge consumer change in taste to trucks and SUV's/CUV's auto efficiency took a significant hit in 2019. 

Lots of interesting details in this IEA report story.

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-energy-review-2020

 

Sounds about right. Sweet Crude hit a hard negative value earlier this quarter for the first time ever. Crazy times we are living in for sure. The CCP will pay big time and already are. 

[USA-1]

6 hours ago, dfelt said:

Saw this on YouTube and I have to say I agree with the guys laughing at this turd. I see so many Subaru STI / WRX do this and they deserve to get nailed.

Can't stand the boy racer "Subu" drivers either, but the cop-per was cruising in the left lane holding up traffic which is illegal in most states "Keep Right Except to Pass". You will get pulled over here in AZ for cruising in the left lane, it's there for overtaking slower traffic and you are supposed to get back over to the right once safe to do so. Drivers in the NW are very annoying that way, all the same speed in all lanes. Get going or get over to the right! We don't have entrapment setups here like OR and WA, no traffic cops pulling everyone over doing 5- 8 over the posted limit. Big open smooth freeways 4- 5 lanes wide here, not beat to crap narrow freeways with Prius drivers everywhere "saving the planet" like the NW has. I don't miss the freeways up there at all! 

[oldshurst442]

31 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

"Keep Right Except to Pass".

YES!

100%

I was about to comment on that very same thing!!!

31 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

You will get pulled over here in AZ for cruising in the left lane

In Quebec, the po-po dont give out tickets for left lane hogs. On top of that,  our Provincial police used to behave like this shyte cop-per too . "Used to" I said as they dont do that shyte no more.  Quebec has all kinds of speed traps in their arsenal. This was one of them.   But in Quebec, we dont seem to have a real left lane hog problem either.  It happens, but it aint a problem on our roads in general.  We speed more often than not though...

And to be fair to the SQ (Surete du Quebec ie Quebec Provincial Police), they do put up with a lot of speeding.  Quebecois love to speed. A lot. And our speed limits are merely suggestions as the SQ tolerates us speeding. Its just that certain times of the year, like around holidays, or the start of summer, they button down and speed trap us to death...  They reel us in back to reality...

 

They left lane is NOT the fast lane.

The left lane is NOT the lane to enforce speed limits in.

What the left is, is allowing faster traffic to PASS SAFELY on the left, and then MERGE back in the center (or right lane if only two lanes)  going the FLOW of traffic.

If traffic is such that going in and out of lanes is more dangerous, then the left lane is meant to be at a speed that travels FASTER than the other twom (if possible) and ESPECIALLY MAINTAINING THE FLOW of traffic.  

If...IF...the LEFT lane is moving SLOWER than the RIGHT lane because of a LEFT LANE HOG then we gots a problem.  And if the left lane hog seems to be a cop....SHAME ON THAT DIRTY COP.  The cop had sooooo much time to accelerate BEFORE he clogged up the traffic. He realized and he accelerated and at that poiint in time, the 3rd lane became available and that is when the Subaru drove on the right to pass, but by that time when the cop accelerated to pass the Suburban, it was too late. 

THAT cop created a DANGEROUS situation...  And Im not even talking about the road rage driving of that Subarau passing on the right...which is DEFINATELY a DANGEROUS situation...but FROM THE GET GO of the video, there are 5 cars, the cop car in front, one pick up truck on the left side in back of the cop car , one Suburban right beside the pick-up in the right lane, the Subaru in back...and the truck filming the whole thing and if 1 car in that group loses control...just one car losing control in that group...and a MULTIPLE car crash WILL occur...and there is NO REASON FOR THAT as there is LITERALLY NO OTHER CARS IN FRONT OF EITHER THE COP CAR IN THE LEFT LANE NOR THE Suburban.  The Suburban cant pass because he is in the right lane so that leaves the cop car in the left lane...

PASS and GET THE PHOQUE OUT OF THE WAY!!!  CAUSING UNNECCESSARY  traffic jams and potential accidents.

And that is WITHOUT the mentioning of road raging driving of folks trying to pass in the right lane...

 

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

45 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Can't stand the boy racer "Subu" drivers either, but the cop-per was cruising in the left lane holding up traffic which is illegal in most states "Keep Right Except to Pass". You will get pulled over here in AZ for cruising in the left lane, it's there for overtaking slower traffic and you are supposed to get back over to the right once safe to do so. Drivers in the NW are very annoying that way, all the same speed in all lanes. Get going or get over to the right! We don't have entrapment setups here like OR and WA, no traffic cops pulling everyone over doing 5- 8 over the posted limit. Big open smooth freeways 4- 5 lanes wide here, not beat to crap narrow freeways with Prius drivers everywhere "saving the planet" like the NW has. I don't miss the freeways up there at all! 

No trees either, easy to just pave over everything.  

I agree the Prius and BMW drivers are the worst with Mercedes-Benz second for getting over to the left and driving 10 under the posted limit. Drives me nuts.

Last summer both Washington and Oregon created laws with heavy fines, $259 dollars for driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane. At first they were enforcing it till the pandemic and now they are not and with the state opening back up, seems that BMW / MB and the Prius drivers are back to their 10 under ways of driving.

[USA-1]

6 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

YES!

100%

I was about to comment on that very same thing!!!

In Quebec, the po-po dont give out tickets for left lane hogs. On top of that,  our Provincial police used to behave like this shyte cop-per too . "Used to" I said as they dont do that shyte no more.  Quebec has all kinds of speed traps in their arsenal. This was one of them.   But in Quebec, we dont seem to have a real left lane hog problem either.  It happens, but it aint a problem on our roads in general.  We speed more often than not though...

And to be fair to the SQ (Surete du Quebec ie Quebec Provincial Police), they do put up with a lot of speeding.  Quebecois love to speed. A lot. And our speed limits are merely suggestions as the SQ tolerates us speeding. Its just that certain times of the year, like around holidays, or the start of summer, they button down and speed trap us to death...  They reel us in back to reality...

 

They left lane is NOT the fast lane.

The left lane is NOT the lane to enforce speed limits in.

What the left is, is allowing faster traffic to PASS SAFELY on the left, and then MERGE back in the center (or right lane if only two lanes)  going the FLOW of traffic.

If traffic is such that going in and out of lanes is more dangerous, then the left lane is meant to be at a speed that travels FASTER than the other twom (if possible) and ESPECIALLY MAINTAINING THE FLOW of traffic.  

If...IF...the LEFT lane is moving SLOWER than the RIGHT lane because of a LEFT LANE HOG (as in THIS CASE....)then we gots a problem.  And if the left lane hog seems to be a cop....SHAME ON THAT DIRTY COP.

THAT cop created a DANGEROUS situation...  And Im not even talking about the road rage driving of that Subarau passing on the right...which is DEFINATELY a DANGEROUS situation...but FROM THE GET GO of the video, there are 5 cars, the cop car in front, one pick up truck on the left side in back of the cop car , one Suburban right beside the pick-up in the right lane, the Subaru in back...and the truck filming the whole thing and if 1 car in that group loses control...just one car losing control in that group...and a MULTIPLE car crash WILL occur...and there is NO REASON FOR THAT as there is LITERALLY NO OTHER CARS IN FRONT OF EITHER THE COP CAR IN THE LEFT LANE NOR THE Suburban.  The Suburban cant pass because he is in the right lane so that leaves the cop car in the left lane...

PASS and GET THE PHOQUE OUT OF THE WAY!!!  CAUSING UNNECCESSARY  traffic jams and potential accidents.

And that is WITHOUT the mentioning of road raging driving of folks trying to pass in the right lane...

 

 

 

 

Exactly! He was setting someone up to pass on the right, pretty clear. He even slowed down at one point where the white Silverado behind him had to brake. Total BS!!

I can't stand left lane hogs. We all speed more than not here as well, but we go with the flow and there are very few big wrecks, little fender benders here and there will always happen. The other thing I can't stand are the people who can't merge for the life of them on or off the freeway. If you are entering a freeway at 55 or 60 that's posted at 65 or 75 how the F do you think that's going to work out when you are merging with people traveling at least 70- 80 mph?! And if you are exiting the freeway for the love of God DO NOT brake hard until you are all the way into the right lane, either speed up to get over or slowly ease up but DO NOT slam on your brakes to exit/change lanes, good lord! How is that so hard to understand for so many?! It's like they forget where the F they are and that there are several others traveling around them. It's why I always travel in the farthest left lane as soon as safely possible to avoid the intimidated dipsh!t's who can't properly drive in the right lanes. 

[oldshurst442]

6 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

It's why I always travel in the farthest left lane as soon as safely possible to avoid the intimidated dipsh!t's who can't properly drive in the right lanes. 

yeah yeah yeah.  Me too!!!

 

7 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

He even slowed down at one point where the white Silverado behind him had to brake. Total BS!!

Yeah!  I forgot to mention that!  

7 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

He was setting someone up to pass on the right, pretty clear.

I wanted to state that this way:  He created the road rage driving of the Subaru driver.  And its like you said, he was setting them up for it. 

I hear you on the merging on and off the ramps.  We got that here in Quebec. Its a big problem. I dont think its because they are afraid, I think they are taught the wrong way when they take their driving lessons.  But there are definetely some intimidated dipsh!t's around these parts too.  

 

[USA-1]

4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

No trees either, easy to just pave over everything.  

I agree the Prius and BMW drivers are the worst with Mercedes-Benz second for getting over to the left and driving 10 under the posted limit. Drives me nuts.

Last summer both Washington and Oregon created laws with heavy fines, $259 dollars for driving under the posted speed limit in the left lane. At first they were enforcing it till the pandemic and now they are not and with the state opening back up, seems that BMW / MB and the Prius drivers are back to their 10 under ways of driving.

'Bout time OR and WA finally did something about the Left lane Hogs! They love the citation revenue too.

Haha you're such a hippy granola boy, you def. fit right in up in Seattle ? We have trees everywhere and beautiful mountain views and damn near year round ability to hike 1,000's of trails and mountain biking as well as some of the best sunsets, something I know the NW doesn't get many of.  We also have the Saguaro cacti, many are hundreds of years old and the only place in the world that they grow is in our beautiful Sonoran Desert. They have to be at least 60 years old before they start an arm and the ones with multiple arms are 200+ years old. Pretty neat history here. Oh and home to one of the Seven Natural Wonders of the World THE GRAND CANYON! https://www.canstar.com.au/travel-insurance/what-are-the-seven-natural-wonders-of-the-world/

 

[oldshurst442]

Cop forcing a left lane hog to change lanes.

 

And there are many other videos like this one.  

[USA-1]

8 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Cop forcing a left lane hog to change lanes.

 

And there are many other videos like this one.  

 

Perfect! WTF why would the moron in the Civic NOT GET OVER?! They knew he was right on their bumper because they hit the right turn signal and starting getting over right when he hit the overhead lights and sirens! UGH...

Edited June 5, 2020 by USA-1

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, USA-1 said:

Haha you're such a hippy granola boy, you def. fit right in up in Seattle ? We have trees everywhere and beautiful mountain views and damn near year round ability to hike 1,000's of trails and mountain biking as well as some of the best sunsets, something I know the NW doesn't get many of.  We also have the Saguaro cacti, many are hundreds of years old and the only place in the world that they grow is in our beautiful Sonoran Desert. They have to be at least 60 years old before they start an arm and the ones with multiple arms are 200+ years old. Pretty neat history here. Oh and home to one of the Seven Natural Wonders of the World THE GRAND CANYON! https://www.canstar.com.au/travel-insurance/what-are-the-seven-natural-wonders-of-the-world/

Yes another kind of beauty. I love my rain, hike and camp year round. Only wimps do not go out in the rain. The ability to ski, the Hoh Rain Forest with 200 to 300 year old Douglas fir trees, all the water, mountains, see to mountain fun year round just like you, just more water and green.

[trinacriabob]

This random, weird thought went through my head:

I had lunch at Costco ...

but I didn't have a Costco lunch.

[balthazar]

[USA-1]

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Yes another kind of beauty. I love my rain, hike and camp year round. Only wimps do not go out in the rain. The ability to ski, the Hoh Rain Forest with 200 to 300 year old Douglas fir trees, all the water, mountains, see to mountain fun year round just like you, just more water and green.

You've obviously never really been to Arizona and actually driven around or traveled up North. There is a TON of green conifers and ash trees around the Valley of the Sun and even more up North towards Sedona and Flagstaff etc. I could go overboard like you with more pictures and links, but I have better things to do, just Google it. I know what the NW is about I grew up there as you know, great to visit but I'd never live there full time again, too depressing 10 mos. out of the year. Plenty of water here, because of where we are we are fully prepared, plenty of lakes and rivers here including huge reservoir lakes. Yeah, you gotta be a real man to live here.

Prickly Pear cactus and my 55-60' Mexican Fan palm trees and aloe in bloom in my backyard. Pretty relaxing view

Edited June 5, 2020 by USA-1

[daves87rs]

Not sure how this became a battle of States.... ? 

Guess I’ll throw in Northern Michigan and the UP- now that is some beautiful land up there.....

Though I want to hit some of the places that both of you were talking about....

[ykX]

11 hours ago, USA-1 said:

Drivers in the NW are very annoying that way

Unfortunately North East is pretty much the same.  I have to say overall in US the idea of the left lane for passing only is practically non-existent.

[balthazar]

In NJ at least- traditionally there's simply too much volume to have an open left lane. 

[ykX]

 

20 minutes ago, balthazar said:

In NJ at least- traditionally there's simply too much volume to have an open left lane.

I live in NJ as well, while it is true that there is a lot of volume usually, but when the roads are not that busy almost no one bothers to get out of the left lane.  People drive for miles on the empty roads in the left lane forcing right lane passing.  I would say at least 90% of drivers are like that.

[balthazar]

90% has not been my experience (tho I do see it daily), but I will say I think NJ drivers are 'conditioned' to not regard the left lane as a 'clear' lane because of the usual volume.
I occasionally ride in the left lane (I have a heavy right foot anyway), but if someone starts moving up on me I'll move over & take the center/right lane. I monitor traffic around me & I don't obstruct with no one in front of me.

What county you in, ykX?
I'm in Middlesex, mostly travel in Mercer, Somerset, Hunterdon, Monmouth.

Edited June 5, 2020 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

In NJ at least- traditionally there's simply too much volume to have an open left lane. 

Do not forget the crazy Jug handles and then left turns every other intersection. The year and 1/2 I lived there and worked in Princeton, I was still amazed at the two road standards that competed for how you got around. Very crazy, but yes the traffic volumes are heavy.

[balthazar]

It's literally no problem to navigate WRT turns. Most major roads are consistent within themselves, but that's why cars have windshields; you look. I live right near US Rt 1, and it's almost all jughandles in this area.
With the basic layout done 70-90 years ago, and the density of development in many areas, the DOT is often locked into what they can accomplish WRT consistency.

[ykX]

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

What county you in, ykX?
I'm in Middlesex, mostly travel in Mercer, Somerset, Hunterdon, Monmouth.

Monmouth, used to live in Middlesex.

I commute to PA, I work not too far from Trenton on PA side.

But I used to work in the North Jersey, so I have been up and down plenty, local roads, Garden State parkway, NJ Turnpike etc.  I always had long commute.

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

With the basic layout done 70-90 years ago, and the density of development in many areas, the DOT is often locked into what they can accomplish WRT consistency.

Yes, unfortunately state is very densely populated, except maybe the southern part.

Edited June 5, 2020 by ykX

[balthazar]

Southern & western is still relatively sparse (outside the western urbans). I’ve traveled most of the state except the SW quadrant. 

[USA-1]

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

90% has not been my experience (tho I do see it daily), but I will say I think NJ drivers are 'conditioned' to not regard the left lane as a 'clear' lane because of the usual volume.
I occasionally ride in the left lane (I have a heavy right foot anyway), but if someone starts moving up on me I'll move over & take the center/right lane. I monitor traffic around me & I don't obstruct with no one in front of me.

What county you in, ykX?
I'm in Middlesex, mostly travel in Mercer, Somerset, Hunterdon, Monmouth.

Yep, same driving style here lead right foot, but if I'm in the left lane after passing I still always get over to the right even if nobody is driving behind me, it's just second nature to me. The #1 left lane is for overtaking or safety/rescue personnel who can quickly come up on you so if not overtaking another car and as long as there's room in the other lanes that's how it should be handled. HOV left lane is a whole nother beast, we have scheduled times that anybody can drive in the HOV alone or not so it's only officially an HOV lane during rush hour between 6am-9am and 3-7pm confuses the hell out of many even though the huge signs spell it out very clearly. I've found that for the most part the SW has been the best for left lane drivers especially compared to the NW, but there is an exception to everything there's still some that don't get it. I lived in N. California for college years ago and Dallas, TX for a couple years after that and left lane driving was also much better in those states compared to the NW. We used to call the left lane drivers in NW "Oregon traffic cops" or "Washington traffic cops", basically the general public with a sense of entitlement trying to control others speed, crazy but true.   

[G. David Felt]

WOW, have to say that they can fire the whole emergency response team as the lack of empathy and the unneeded blunt use of force and the I do not care action by the whole group of police officers shows me that we have way too many EX-Military in the police force with no mental training on how to interact with citizens. This was totally uncalled for pushing down a 75 year old man where he is bleeding out his ear and clearly not moving.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/57-buffalo-officers-resign-from-emergency-response-team-after-two-cops-suspended/ar-BB156hh9?ocid=msedgntp

I truly believe in our constitution and equality for all regardless of race, sex, etc. I truly think we have hit a breaking point of police being to militarized. 

Now back to our normal schedule of discussing auto's.

[ocnblu]

He had no business being out there in the first place.  He's lucky he didn't run across the lawless mobs, they would have laughed as they destroyed his frail body. 

Now back to our normal schedule of discussing autos (apostrophe is improper).

[oldshurst442]

 

Quote

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

Quote

Our fellow citizens are not the enemy, and must never become so.

 

Back to cars...

Trans Ams

Transcends all boundaries

Disco

 

Country

Rock

Blurred lines between country and rock

 

Synthesizer  pop

 

Rap/hip hop

 

Whatever type of music this is on a  Firebird Esprit

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by oldshurst442

[trinacriabob]

19 hours ago, USA-1 said:

You've obviously never really been to Arizona and actually driven around or traveled up North. There is a TON of green conifers and ash trees around the Valley of the Sun and even more up North towards Sedona and Flagstaff etc. I could go overboard like you with more pictures and links, but I have better things to do, just Google it. I know what the NW is about I grew up there as you know, great to visit but I'd never live there full time again, too depressing 10 mos. out of the year. Plenty of water here, because of where we are we are fully prepared, plenty of lakes and rivers here including huge reservoir lakes. Yeah, you gotta be a real man to live here.

Everyone has a different interpretation of beauty.  There's no doubt the Desert SW has its own beauty.  I don't think it has much to do with being a real man to deal with the Desert SW heat and living conditions.  For some, it's not an aesthetic they like.  I was recently in Florida and, thanks to those reliable downpours in the afternoons, the place is all green and turquoise ... abundant, lush vegetation and turquoise waters.  I find their 92 degree humid heat easier to take than 108 degree dry heat.  Others don't agree.

It's not all that packaged.  You can live in the NW and love the trees but strongly dislike the tree huggers and the granolas.  Dfelt ain't no tree hugger ... he lives on the East Side and drives domestic vehicles.  Kudos to dfelt on both counts.  (Much like you can be a liberal Republican or a conservative Democrat - it's not so cut and dried.) For the tree huggers and granolas, it's not just about conservation or preserving the natural beauty.  It's about making an annoying and all encompassing statement.  I didn't really get along with them too well.  Then, the SW has its types of granolas and counterculture types, like middle aged and retired ladies with short gray hair, studious glasses, sizable collections of turquoise and carnelian Indian jewelry, and Subaru wagons who love Sedona, Flagstaff (~ 7,000 ft. elev.), and Santa Fe (NM).  Those areas' prices have gone way up because of the liberal moneyed intellectuals (or wannabe intellectuals) who have moved into certain cities in AZ, NM and CO ... and you can have those places because I wouldn't enjoy having them as neighbors.

I like the Desert SW for about a week.  I was last there for about 4 or 5 days.  The inside of my nose and my head seemed to dry up daily, producing regular nosebleeds and headaches.  Then, when I get somewhere moister, this doesn't happen.

Edited June 6, 2020 by trinacriabob

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

fire

Where did you get that?

[trinacriabob]

For those who still have time and can find stores that are participating, today is National Donut Day!

[USA-1]

1 hour ago, trinacriabob said:

Everyone has a different interpretation of beauty.  There's no doubt the Desert SW has its own beauty.  I don't think it has much to do with being a real man to deal with the Desert SW heat and living conditions.  For some, it's not an aesthetic they like.  I was recently in Florida and, thanks to those reliable downpours in the afternoons, the place is all green and turquoise ... abundant, lush vegetation and turquoise waters.  I find their 92 degree humid heat easier to take than 108 degree dry heat.  Others don't agree.

You can live in the NW and love the trees but strongly dislike the tree huggers and the granolas.  Dfelt ain't no tree hugger ... he lives on the East Side and drives domestic vehicles.  Kudos to dfelt on both counts.

 (Much like you can be a liberal Republican or a conservative Democrat - it's not so cut and dried.) For the tree huggers and granolas, it's not just about conservation or preserving the natural beauty.  It's about making an annoying and all encompassing statement.  I didn't really get along with them too well.  Then, the SW has its types of granolas and counterculture types, like middle aged and retired ladies with short gray hair, studious glasses, sizable collections of turquoise and carnelian Indian jewelry, and Subaru wagons who love Sedona, Flagstaff (~ 7,000 ft. elev.), and Santa Fe (NM).  Those areas' prices have gone way up because of the liberal moneyed intellectuals (or wannabe intellectuals) who have moved into certain cities in AZ, NM and CO ... and you can have those places because I wouldn't enjoy having them as neighbors.

I like the Desert SW for about a week.  I was last there for about 4 or 5 days.  The inside of my nose and my head seemed to dry up daily, producing regular nosebleeds and headaches.  Then, when I get somewhere moister, this doesn't happen.

@dfelt knows I was jerking his chain, I've been on here a while and we screw with each other often.

Humidity is horrible to me in FL and the whole eastern seaboard for that matter where you are constantly sticky and never can fully dry off after a shower, I hate that! Yes, it's drier here and your sinuses and nose get used to it, just don't give up!  And yes, many can't cut it here with the heat so it does take some intestinal fortitude and fitness regimen to make it.

The NW is beautiful to me and I never said it wasn't. I grew up there so I know what it has to offer, I just needed a change and had enough of the constant rain for 9 sometimes 10 months out of the year. Great to visit when the Summer Monsoon heat and humidity kicks in here for a few months, but I'd never live there year round again.

I don't live up North with the senior granola's nor could I, you're right they're mostly all up North in the real nose bleed section of the state in Flagstaff and sprinkled around Sedona. My house is in the 98.6% Conservative area of N. Phoenix/Paradise Valley area, right where I want to be. Conservative retired folk have driven the prices up here for the most part.

[USA-1]

4 hours ago, dfelt said:

WOW, have to say that they can fire the whole emergency response team as the lack of empathy and the unneeded blunt use of force and the I do not care action by the whole group of police officers shows me that we have way too many EX-Military in the police force with no mental training on how to interact with citizens.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/57-buffalo-officers-resign-from-emergency-response-team-after-two-cops-suspended/ar-BB156hh9?ocid=msedgntp

I truly believe in our constitution and equality for all regardless of race, sex, etc. I truly think we have hit a breaking point of police being to militarized.

You can NOT broad brush ALL emergency responders' for a few bad actors here and there, that isn't right and most of these write-ups only show or give one side of the disturbance or fight. There are some bad or dirty cops that need to be vetted in all cities, but the vast majority are there to help and keep the peace. I know because I have family and friends who are great officers in city or state positions and have been for over 20 years. The mob of Antifa and others were looting and burning buildings down as well as lighting cars on fire and beating up random people all around the nation, it was organized by a higher authority and we all know who it is. Seattle was WAY out of control with rioting and looting setting police cars on fire because your local gov't allowed it to get out of hand as well as NYC, LA and other majors cities. They don't allow that crap here in Phoenix being the 5th largest city it doesn't happen here, because the police don't allow it to get out of hand, it's not a military thing it's Rule of Law. It is interesting that you mentioned the US military because the mob of looters and rioters stopped once the National Guard came in to assist all the cities that were having trouble. The minute the mob protesters (not peaceful protesters) and rioters started signs of aggression by pushing barricades, shaking street signs and trying to light trees on fire in front of our PD HQ downtown, police came out in full riot gear and immediately started flash bangs which dispersed most the crowd and pushed them back off the barricades that they were told to stay off of repeatedly over the bull horn. You can't let people act like animals and burn the city down no matter what race, gender or creed as there's zero reason for it. Peaceful protesting is one thing and a right we have as Americans, but criminal rioting and looting is a whole nother thing and you know that!

Edited June 6, 2020 by USA-1

[daves87rs]

All this talk about going places.... I really want to go camping!!!! ? 

[Robert Hall]

8 hours ago, daves87rs said:

All this talk about going places.... I really want to go camping!!!! ? 

I wish I had a motorhome...a week or so in a state or national park would be great.  Growing up w/ RVs was a lot of fun.

[balthazar]

"Old cars were only good for a few years, then they were junked."
26 yr old Ford still in service, 1939 :

[frogger]

10 hours ago, daves87rs said:

All this talk about going places.... I really want to go camping!!!! ? 

Ontario has opened up backcountry camp sites but that is it so far given the washrooms at car camping places could be an issue.

[oldshurst442]

19 hours ago, USA-1 said:

You can NOT broad brush ALL emergency responders' for a few bad actors here and there,

No. You cannot do that.  100% agree with you.

19 hours ago, USA-1 said:

There are some bad or dirty cops that need to be vetted in all cities, but the vast majority are there to help and keep the peace.

Absolutely true. 

19 hours ago, USA-1 said:

You can't let people act like animals and burn the city down no matter what race, gender or creed as there's zero reason for it.

No you cannot let people run any city down.  100% correct there also.

19 hours ago, USA-1 said:

Peaceful protesting is one thing and a right we have as Americans

Yes. EXACTLY!  And not only a right for Americans only. For EVERYBODY!  

But there comes a time when protesting does become...less than friendly...for the GREATER GOOD of the party that NEEDS ITS VOICE HEARD because otherwise....

Ive got 2 examples.  And one that includes the start of the birth of YOUR country...

1. Boston Massacre where "unruly"  colonists  frustrated by British soldiers in the streets flung snowballs at the redcoats and and the redcoats in turn opened fire at the mob killing 5...

Then the Boston Tea Party happened a couple of years later and then...well...its in the history books.

2. The French Revolution with all the "let them eat cake" stuff...

 

Now...in THIS situation...looters and anifa shyte and all that...well, Ill agree with you, peaceful protesters protesting the death of George Floyd is one thing, looters and shyte distubers is another.

 

That 75 year old man that was pushed by that cop...  I hope we can agree that that old man had a RIGHT to protest...  And I hope we could agree that that 75 year old WHITE man was NOT a threat and was NOT a looter...  Shame on that cop for pushing him down.  I dont know all the details, but If I was that man's son, Id find out who that cop was and he would have a helluva time with ME!!!  Legally or...ilegally...

About the bad cops comment....

Yes there a few bad apples. But Ill tell you one thing:  There a few professions that 1 bad apple is 1 too many...

Doctors.  Commercial airline pilots. Teachers.  Judges and police officers.  There SHOULDNT BE any bad apples in these professions...

Yes it happens.  With cops.  It has gone FAR TOO LONG!   

How did we get there?   Notice the whole world is protesting. Im sure in London England, Paris France, Montreal and Toronto Canada are all with George Floyd, protesting for all black people in the US, but Im pretty sure they are also voicing their protests concerning THEIR VERY OWN police forces...   I know in Montreal, we are voicing our concerns over our own racist incidents with our cops...

One bad cop and it rots a whole lot of them.

Notice that the guy that murdered George Floyd had 3 or 4 other cops just looking at him suffocating George and they did nothing to stop him from murdering him...

One cop allegedly tried to say something along the line that he cant do that, but his voice was not loud enough and strong enough and was completely ignored...

Colin Kaepernick's kneeling was DISMISSED and IMMEDIALTELY called an act of disrespecting the flag...  WTF???!!!

And this is why we are here today, in the middle of a pandemic, with yet another murdered human (black or not) at the hands of a cop.

A cop is NOT judge, jury and executioner.  A cop does NOT render justice to the would be criminal. A cop just brings the would be criminal to justice...

Outside of the cop defending his life trying to bring a would be criminal to justice...I think we could all agree that George Floyd was NOT a threat to that cop's life...  A for a lousy counterfeit 20 dollar bill, George Floyd lost his life for it.

Again, the streets can be a jungle sometimes and cops have that right to NOT to die protecting us all from the thugs of the mean streets...but...   There is a problem in the US.    And if somebody tells me that white folk die just as much as black folk at the hands of the police just to dismiss the racial discrimiantion black folk face....Ill just repeat what I said above:

A cop is NOT judge, jury and executioner.  A cop does NOT render justice to the would be criminal. A cop just brings the would be criminal to justice...

And if white folk die just as many black folk die at the hands of the police, then the problem that the US faces is actually WORSE than it is...and we shouldnt dismiss it casually just because we want to supress the black folk.

Look at the NFL's response now with Colin Kaepernick's kneeling...

How the phoque did THAT take a 180 degree turn?

Yeah...because THERE IS a racial problem in the US...

And if the Black folk want to protest for their voices to be heard...I think we should let them protest!!!]

 

Quote

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

That is a two-way thing.

We dont let suppressed people voice their opinion, then they WILL revolt with violence.   July 4rth 1776 is an example.   (no taxation without representation...)

If we let looters and shyte disturbers run free, violence is almost always the end result...

And let us not forget

Quote

Our fellow citizens are not the enemy, and must never become so.

If people in power forget this,  the people will fight back...and then that spells the end for the country...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

23 hours ago, ocnblu said:

He had no business being out there in the first place.  He's lucky he didn't run across the lawless mobs, they would have laughed as they destroyed his frail body. 

Now back to our normal schedule of discussing autos (apostrophe is improper).

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/buffalo-cops-video-plead-not-guilty-pushing-man-75

 

Quote

Officers Robert McCabe and Aaron Torgalski were both charged with second-degree assault, a class D felony. They were both released without bail after the hearing and will return to court July 20.

 

Just wanting to make sure you were aware of what legalities were available to that frail old body where he had no business being at. 

 

 

[balthazar]

[ I typed 3 or 4 responses to the above topic, and deleted them all ]

- - - - -
 

Edited June 7, 2020 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

I did not know if I wanted to lend my opinion on that topic.  For several reasons myself.

1. Supposed no political talk in these forums.  

2. not to alienate anybody and starting a  ruckus. 

But then I said...  screw it.     

 

I am so mad at what is going on with everything.  

Im mad at corrupt cops.

Im mad at stupid, uneducated poor folk that commit crimes, (any race), put themselves and others in danger while commiting their petty crimes (because often its petty crimes), resisiting arrest and then not owning up to their crimes.  (Im mad at white collar crimes too made by very very rich folk, maybe madder, but that is for another discussion at a later time)

Im mad, twice, at corrupt cops for taking said situation above and using that as an excuse to commit their own crimes against humanity.

Im mad at the commmuties that tolerate this never ending cycle of crime on the street and then blaming everybody but themselves for it. And THAT includes the black community for always  using race as an excuse. But THAT also includes the white community that ignores the RACIAL biases we (because Im white) have towards blacks and which also includes the police communities for turning a blind eye to their rotten apples and THAT also includes blacks and whites together for continuing to fuel both of our racial tensions that still exist.

Boy, this Covid thing and now the death of a black man at the hands of the police have really united the world like never before...

At least that is a shimmer of bright light going forward. Because 2020 has been a really shytty year otherwise. 

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442 @balthazar

Yes we are NOT supposed to talk politics here and I did think long and hard on posting that news story that also includes the local news video clip showing the 75 year old man getting pushed down by the cops. I also understand that a Curfew was in effect.

Yet with that, I also understand that our constitution is about freedom and peaceful resistance to the system when us citizens disagree with what is going on.

I then rewatched and rewatched the video and a few things really stood out to me.

1. The man was not doing anything physically aggressive towards the cops.
2. Why did the two police officers feel the need to shove him backwards so hard when he was not threatening them.
3. One of the two grabbed the other officer when he attempted to squat down to check on the guy and pushed him forward.
4. While one cop radioed for medical, NO ONE ELSE bothered to look or stop on a man who was clearly unconscious and bleeding from his ears clearly in the video
5. I also noticed the heavy use of military gear on all these police officers and the Military SUV in the background. 

I get the need for crowd control, I get the need to have rapid response units to deal with looting and criminal activity. 

I DO NOT get the lack of empathy for humanity and that the job of the police is to interact with and find a peaceful resolution to defuse all situations.

The Police Forces around the US and for that matter around the world have leapt to using extreme force first rather than human verbal skills to control crowds.

Just as I would leap into a situation where another person be male, female, hetro, gay, etc. was being physically hurt by another to protect them, I would also rather use my words to diffuse a situation first than blunt force.

One that comes from generations of Military who have proudly served America and who has relatives who serve in the police departments here locally, I take a deeper personal feeling about the poor direction our police forces have taken in the last 30 years especially.

When I first got married in 1991, my Uncle, a sergeant in the Kirkland Police Department talked to me about the life I could provide to my wife at the time and being a body builder and physical fitness nut fresh out of college choose to try out not just for Kirkland but also for Redmond, Tukwila, Seattle and our state WSP. I scored consistently in the mid 90's on my physical and mental testing and yet was passed over due to Military folks with NO COLLEGE education getting the 15 point bonus all because they served in the military. These same people while most are decent folks also came to the job with anger issues and other issues from the gulf war. I heard from my Uncle of the people who got the openings in the Kirkland Police force were all medically discharged within a couple years after I tried out. 

I choose to go with my education and the tech industry and have no regrets.  Yet in looking back at my own experience and watching this video of the assualt on the senior, it reinforces to me that while we need to take military training into account it should by all means not be given such a bonus when we are talking about a very important role that requires people skills and many of the military folks come out still lacking in people skills that allow them to defuse tense situations.

If we take these folks, it should be a requirement to go through a psychological training program so that they have the mental tools to deal with this better.

We have to rise to be better than those causing criminal activity when we deal with protesters.

Yes I could go on but I hope I have clearly explained myself.

[USA-1]

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

No. You cannot do that.  100% agree with you.

Absolutely true. 

No you cannot let people run any city down.  100% correct there also.

Yes. EXACTLY!  And not only a right for Americans only. For EVERYBODY!  

But there comes a time when protesting does become...less than friendly...for the GREATER GOOD of the party that NEEDS ITS VOICE HEARD because otherwise....

Ive got 2 examples.  And one that includes the start of the birth of YOUR country...

1. Boston Massacre where "unruly"  colonists  frustrated by British soldiers in the streets flung snowballs at the redcoats and and the redcoats in turn opened fire at the mob killing 5...

Then the Boston Tea Party happened a couple of years later and then...well...its in the history books.

2. The French Revolution with all the "let them eat cake" stuff...

 

Now...in THIS situation...looters and anifa shyte and all that...well, Ill agree with you, peaceful protesters protesting the death of George Floyd is one thing, looters and shyte distubers is another.

 

That 75 year old man that was pushed by that cop...  I hope we can agree that that old man had a RIGHT to protest...  And I hope we could agree that that 75 year old WHITE man was NOT a threat and was NOT a looter...  Shame on that cop for pushing him down.  I dont know all the details, but If I was that man's son, Id find out who that cop was and he would have a helluva time with ME!!!  Legally or...ilegally...

About the bad cops comment....

Yes there a few bad apples. But Ill tell you one thing:  There a few professions that 1 bad apple is 1 too many...

How did we get there?   Notice the whole world is protesting. Im sure in London England, Paris France, Montreal and Toronto Canada are all with George Floyd, protesting for all black people in the US, but Im pretty sure they are also voicing their protests concerning THEIR VERY OWN police forces...   I know in Montreal, we are voicing our concerns over our own racist incidents with our cops...

Notice that the guy that murdered George Floyd had 3 or 4 other cops just looking at him suffocating George and they did nothing to stop him from murdering him...

Colin Kaepernick's kneeling was DISMISSED and IMMEDIALTELY called an act of disrespecting the flag...  WTF???!!!

Outside of the cop defending his life trying to bring a would be criminal to justice...I think we could all agree that George Floyd was NOT a threat to that cop's life...  A for a lousy counterfeit 20 dollar bill, George Floyd lost his life for it.

Again, the streets can be a jungle sometimes and cops have that right to NOT to die protecting us all from the thugs of the mean streets...but...   There is a problem in the US.    And if somebody tells me that white folk die just as much as black folk at the hands of the police just to dismiss the racial discrimiantion black folk face....Ill just repeat what I said above:

And if white folk die just as many black folk die at the hands of the police, then the problem that the US faces is actually WORSE than it is...and we shouldnt dismiss it casually just because we want to supress the black folk.

 

I was speaking as an American to another American having to do with our Constitutional rights and the 1st Amendment (Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Assembly etc..), but yes all have the ability to protest, but not all countries let them do it is what I meant when saying "as Americans".

Yes, the 75 yo guy should have been more respected by that particular group of unruly officers, but it is the risk he takes by going out when it's not just peaceful protests going on, but criminal rioting and looting as well, so police were on the defense since they were all being threatened and assaulted with bricks, large rocks and frozen water bottles among other weapons. We just don't know the whole story so it's hard to speculate. Too bad it turned out like it did and the officers are being reprimanded for it. Again, there are some that need to be investigated and removed if they have repeated insubordination issues like Chauvin. 

I agree that Chauvin was way out of hand with the arrest of George Floyd who passed away in his custody and there's absolutely no excuse for it, especially when he was already cuffed. It wasn't a random act of police brutality though, the two had history and worked as security guards at the same night club in the past, so who knows what happened there and what Chauvin was thinking, revenge for something Floyd did...who knows at this point. Still no excuse and very wrong of Chauvin and he's paying for his decisions. Two of the four officers were on their 2nd or 3rd day of duty so they were probably pretty nervous with Chauvin being the Senior Supervising officer. The whole thing was a really bad and sad situation.   

Kapernik should have gone about it in a whole different way, there are many other ways he could have gotten his message out there. He's known as being racist and hostile towards America before any of his kneeling acts started. He just wanted the limelight because his career was crumbling and it backfired on him. I personally can't stand him and don't know any Americans who like the guy including other African Am. friends of mine. I think what Drew Brees recently stated was correct, it is disrespectful to the American Flag and National Anthem which in turn is disrespectful the the country and all Veterans who fought and/or died so he could be an overpaid baller ahole. All real American's know to stand, remove your hat if wearing one and hold it or your hand (if not wearing a hat) over your heart while standing during our National Anthem. Period. He's making it like our flag is a sign of racism or oppression which is BS! It's a sign of Freedom and Prosperity to all Americans no matter their race, as well as close ally's of the United States of America.

We can go deeper into this race issue here, but I'd rather not on this platform. 

 

BACK TO CARS!!! How about some news on the C8 Corvette?!  

Edited June 7, 2020 by USA-1

[USA-1]

@oldshurst442 How about Caddy's possible version of the C8?! Sexy AF!! ?

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/05/mid-engine-cadillac-sports-car-rendered/

Edited June 7, 2020 by USA-1

[trinacriabob]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

When I first got married in 1991, my Uncle, a sergeant in the Kirkland Police Department talked to me about the life I could provide to my wife at the time and being a body builder and physical fitness nut fresh out of college choose to try out not just for Kirkland but also for Redmond, Tukwila, Seattle and our state WSP. I scored consistently in the mid 90's on my physical and mental testing and yet was passed over due to Military folks with NO COLLEGE education getting the 15 point bonus all because they served in the military. These same people while most are decent folks also came to the job with anger issues and other issues from the gulf war. I heard from my Uncle of the people who got the openings in the Kirkland Police force were all medically discharged within a couple years after I tried out. 

I choose to go with my education and the tech industry and have no regrets.  Yet in looking back at my own experience and watching this video of the assualt on the senior

If we take these folks, it should be a requirement to go through a psychological training program so that they have the mental tools to deal with this better.

The way he (the 75 y.o.) landed was especially bothersome.  On a concrete sidewalk.  That's in addition to everything else that was wrong with the situation.

As for the Minneapolis situation that ended George  Floyd's life, I was in transit, of sorts, when it happened and got up to speed on it a little later.  A college student in a small peaceful protest actually "scolded" me for not knowing enough about the situation upon inquiring.  (Blame it on uninterrupted Bluetooth music in a rental car to stay focused and alert.)  You start wondering what was going through their heads:  anger issues, stress, power trips, more stress from training for and working in a COVID-19 environment, pack mentality, etc.?  It's like the Rodney King situation of 1992 all over again.  

But it's also a really tough job, especially in a SWAT type situation.  They never know what they'll be facing.  Be glad you didn't become a law enforcement agent.  You'd probably be a very different person than the one you are today.

The people I went to high school with who went into these fields were not likable ... and were still not likable decades later.  I don't know anyone from college who went into law enforcement.  A fair number of these folks became holy roller types and most of them became even more uptight.

Very true about how certain jobs heap on points on military folks returning to the work force.  I think that psychological testing is probably now in (wider) use in employing first responders.  It should be.  As for as aptitude tests that people take for themselves, it's weird what results the 2 Myers-Briggs indicators ending in ?STJ produce - they say you are suited to be a systems analyst, an engineer, a dentist, an accountant ... or a police officer.  It's probably built around the Joe Friday "just the facts, mam" M.O. of most ?STJ types.  That's one broad brush.

Edited June 7, 2020 by trinacriabob

[oldshurst442]

The singing of the national anthem both Canadian and American at sports games is long past their time....

There is a very hypocritical stance when you take this stance:

11 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

all Veterans who fought and/or died

American and Canadian Veterans fought and died during WW1 and WW2 to preserve OUR rights and freedoms.   ( I aint gonna include Viet Nam and Korea and all other wars other than WW1 and WW2 because both our nations involved with the other wars may or may not be in the right...which opens other can of worms...actually, even WW2 is not so cut and dry about who was wrong and who was right and who were the opressors...but I digress)

Ill repeat...American and Canadian Veterans fought and died during WW1 and WW2 to preserve OUR rights and freedoms.

And the right to protest, how to protest (peacefully even if kneeling during a national anthem AT AT SPORTING EVENT )and where to protest has been fought by these very veterans...  Because we HAVE that right and freedom to do so...   

 

Quote

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

 

When we start imposing rules of when and when not to...protest...then we are not as free as we say we are...and we oppress...right?

You cant have it both ways...

Yes...I know...Kaepernick refused to sign the deal that he was initinally offered and gambled on free agency...and THAT is why he wasnt signed on and lost his job...

All that is noise...including the so called disrespecting of the flag...

From the get go...Kaepernick was vocal about the kneeling and what that meant.  To make people acknowledge that there is a problem with law enforcement in the US. And that black people lose their lives at the hands of the police...

Anything else is disengenous....

The "correct" (and popular) narrative 3 weeks ago was that kneeling was disrespectful to the flag and the country.

Today, the "correct" (and popular) narrative is that the kneeling in protest during an anthem is to voice and acknowledge that their is a racial problem in the US.

I think this statement 

Quote

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

by J.F.K. 50 or so years ago has been taken seriously...

At the end of the day...kneeling during the anthem during a sports game is peaceful revolution afterall...a right and freedom that was granted to us by the thousands that died fighting to maintain  our rights and freedoms...

A football game TODAY and for the last 40-50-60 -70 years between Dallas and Philadelphia or a baseball game between Toronto and  Boston or a or a basketball game between Charlotte and New Orleans or a hockey game between Los Angeles and San Jose has NOTHING to do anymore about national pride during a world war crisis...  

Dont give me this BS, man.  

TV stations dont even play the national anthems when they sign off anymore...because they dont sign off anymore...

Baseball and hockey players SPIT during the national anthems...

All 4 major sports leagues in North America, most of the time, the fans, players, owners, fidget, eat, piss, arrive late and try tio sit in their seats, talk, make-out during the national anthems...  so please, dont BS me about national anthems during NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB games...

You know what is disrespectful during the national anthems at a North American sporting event?....when a fan base of one country, boos the national anthem of another country when its playing.  And both Amercans and Canadians of different cities are guilty if this.  Montrealers once booed the American anthem some 20 years ago when Bush Jr. had his Persian Gulf War....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[balthazar]

When we start imposing rules of when and when not to...protest...then we are not as free as we say we are...and we oppress...right?

That's not "oppression".

[oldshurst442]

And yes...back to cars...

I clicked on the Cadillac C8 link but I got an error...

 

PS:  I love you guys...  I mean, all you folk at C&G and Americans in general!    

It pains me to see the US this way!   That is why I pour my heart out.  I dont mean what I say in disrespect. Im just voicing my concern. Im sharing MY point of view with you. Im opening up to you guys.  Yes. Its direct. But its as passionate as it comes. because it comes from my heart.  It may seem short sighted to some.  But that is OK. Its necessary and healthy to share differing opinions.