Random Thoughts Thread

[A Horse With No Name]

 

The view of Sally fields posterior as she looks out the back window at about 2:19 is as good as the vintage Pontiac action....enjoy!

[ccap41]

They may be "low maintenance" but I ride a bus every day and we break down a handful of times per year on things that likely aren't just a $100 fix. I wouldn't doubt if they spend $5000 a year maintaining/fixing. The last time we swapped buses when we walked around back there was a puddle of motor oil under the engine. 

Fuel costs is a hue difference in the total operating costs. Personally, I don't know the difference but electricity costs a lot less than diesel and oil. That is where the savings are. Do you think a bus uses $12,000 a year in fuel? 

[ccap41]

Some simple and very estimating maths...

With their estimated range of 120 miles per charge I'll assume 175 miles total per day, with a charge in between, seem fair? Maybe it's way less.. I really don't know. This changes things a lot if the miles dropped to 120. 

Anyway... 

175 * 5 days = 875 miles per week

875 miles * 4.3 weeks per month = 3762.5 miles per month

3762.5 miles * 8 months of school(3 months of summer plus miscellaneous days off for holidays and such =  30100 miles per year.

They get what, 8mpg? 

30100 / 8pmg = 3762.5 gallons

3762.5 gallons * $3.00(gallon of diesel rounded down) = $11,287.50 in fuel costs alone.

@dfelt Figure out what that costs roughly for an EV bus to operate.

[balthazar]

^ Interesting anecdote. I rode a school bus everyday thru grade, junior & high school and we never broke down a single time.

Whoa! 175 miles/day for a school bus??
Average bus annual mileage is 8,000 according to feds.
180 days of school (give or take) is 44 miles per day, not 175.

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by balthazar

[ccap41]

44 miles is a massive difference and can cut the fuel cost in a fourth. 

So about $3000 instead. Much different. 

Living in a rural area, I guess I just assumed they put a lot more than 44 miles a day on them(and they probably do around me). 

[balthazar]

A BE bus might only charge once a week (tho without a doubt it'll be written that they charge every. single. night). 
But note how the dollars per miles driven over 80,000 is going to seriously affect the 'cheaper to operate' cost of a bus that's $125 grand more than a diesel version. If a school could operate one for -say- 20 years, that disparity worth diminish. Maybe the rules could be re-written with an EV bus (not holding my breath, because; "THE CHILDREN!!!")
- - - - -
In other news, Drew; time to smash your piggy bank open!
http://www.roadkill.com/someone-is-selling-a-267-mph-oldsmobile-aerotech-on-craigslist-for-3-5-million/?fbclid=IwAR1tpQwn0dEm26xI2JPYkC3Wy1Lo6zAVhlI81MR09rTFxVOAdwBDMcre0uo

Edited August 23, 2019 by balthazar

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

? buses seem logical for BE power.... as long as $500,000 buses dont bump school taxes as they explode budgets.

After about five years, an BEV school bus will pay for itself in diesel and motor oil and other maintenance savings.   I would like to see municipal buses be replaced by BEVs too for the same reasons.

[ccap41]

53 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ Interesting anecdote. I rode a school bus everyday thru grade, junior & high school and we never broke down a single time.

Oh yeah, it isn't a school bus I ride to work..lol 

[balthazar]

51 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

After about five years, an BEV school bus will pay for itself in diesel and motor oil and other maintenance savings.   I would like to see municipal buses be replaced by BEVs too for the same reasons.

No it very likely won't; the buy-in premium is far too high. $70K vs. $200K. If buses could be allowed to be in service for longer, or ran a lot more miles, the answer might be otherwise. Too high price for a BE bus, too short a service life, too little miles.

I too thought it was a good possible market, but the numbers aren't even close.

If you have other numbers, please post them up.

Edited August 23, 2019 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

@ccap41 @balthazar

Funny you guys are discussing this as Columbia University just released an indepth long term cost annalysis of EV Bus versus Diesel bus and for the 12yr life of the buses even with the EV bus for mass transit costing with charging equipment about $300,000 more than Diesel, the EV bus saves $39,000 a year compared to Diesel and this is taking into account paying for the Driver and everything.

http://www.columbia.edu/~ja3041/Electric Bus Analysis for NYC Transit by J Aber Columbia University - May 2016.pdf

This was a report done in 2016 for NY. The end result of this study then was that the lifetime cost of operating an electric bus was $1.18 million compared to $1.35 million for diesel buses over the 12 year life.

More than I care to dig through due to work, but you can search for electric versus diesel or ev versus diesel and you will find tons of reports that show the cost of electricity and maintenance on EV buses versus Diesel buses have Electric coming up the winner. Matching Diesel in cost but cleaner air and quieter operation is LNG/CNG buses.

https://www.transit.dot.gov

On top of this is Proterra which has 400, 500 and 600 mile range electric buses for sale for mass transit are guaranteeing a lower cost of operation compared to Diesels. Proterra is also offering a leasing program to help departments write off the cost of the buses better.

https://www.proterra.com/press-release/proterra-and-mitsui-co-ltd-create-200-million-credit-facility-to-scale-proterra-battery-leasing-program/

[balthazar]

19 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Funny you guys are discussing this as Columbia University just released an indepth long term cost annalysis of EV Bus versus Diesel bus and for the 12yr life of the buses….

Doesn't seem like you read any of the conversion above, dave. 
EVs lose compared to diesel in the school bus segment. Different operating parameters.

Edited August 23, 2019 by balthazar

[balthazar]

Olds F-85 export in Japan ~ 

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

Doesn't seem like you read any of the conversion above, dave. 
EVs lose compared to diesel in the school bus segment. Different operating parameters.

First just to make it clear, please call me DAVID. I am not Dave.

Second, I did not miss the School bus thing but wanted to get all my info so you guys @ccap41 can see the difference here. 

There are multiple companies that are taking old Blue Bird diesel school buses and converting them to electric with 100 mile range for much less of a cost than a new Blue Bird School bus yet needing 15yrs of use to equal the 12yr Diesel school bus use.

Multiple reports based on 2018 technology says that EV School buses will equal cost of Diesel school buses by 2030.

http://www.orkas.com/ev-school-buses-take-two/

At this same time, Blue Bird School buses just announced a new EV School bus with Bus to Grid feature. These new buses have a 150kW battery pack with a dedicated 100 mile range making them perfect for a days use of morning and afternoon routes. Recharge over night and back at it the next day.

Better yet, if for some reason power issues hit, the buses can be plugged back in and the power used from the buses by the buildings.

https://electrek.co/2017/07/14/all-electric-school-buses-blue-bird/

Now with that, the EPA also has reports that show that with Solid State batteries, this will be the game changer that should allow more types of Bus / Commercial fleet use to make cost parity come way down on an EV version over Diesel. Just search the EPA site link I posted earlier and you can find the reports on it.

[balthazar]

That's a full-size Chevy in front of that whale of a Lincoln ~ 

[G. David Felt]

On top of this, California is using Voter approved funds to replace a big bulk of the diesel buses with clean EV school buses to reduce student exposure to air pollution and help the state reach voter approved clean air standards sooner.

https://ngtnews.com/california-funds-hundreds-of-diesel-to-electric-school-bus-replacements

[ocnblu]

 

[G. David Felt]

Seems we have reached a trade deal with Japan but NO CHANGE in how they treat auto's going into Japan or what they ship to the US.

So much for Trade negotiations to give US auto companies better access to foreign markets.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Japan-and-US-reach-trade-deal-by-putting-off-auto-tariffs

?

[balthazar]

16 hours ago, dfelt said:

On top of this, California is using Voter approved funds to replace a big bulk of the diesel buses with clean EV school buses to reduce student exposure to air pollution and help the state reach voter approved clean air standards sooner.

https://ngtnews.com/california-funds-hundreds-of-diesel-to-electric-school-bus-replacements

$70,000,000 / 225 buses = $311,111 paid for a $60,000 bus.
Insanity in CA knows no boundaries. 
Article goes on to claim they'll save $120,000 in maintenance per bus over 20 years (I guarantee you CA school districts do no permit 20 yr old buses in their fleet); They save $120K in maintenance but paid $250K more to buy them. That means each bus will COST the district another $130K to the bottom line. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by balthazar

[balthazar]

[regfootball]

Sitting at a buick dealer. Why are buick gmc stores always such dead sad yucky places. Go to a Honda shop it’s hopping GM needs to figure out that their dealerships and sales strategies might be a big reason folks don’t go

[balthazar]

'61 Olds styling study, O-62s (& Chevs) on a carrier, '63 JT-R concept ~ 

[regfootball]

4 hours ago, regfootball said:

Sitting at a buick dealer. Why are buick gmc stores always such dead sad yucky places. Go to a Honda shop it’s hopping GM needs to figure out that their dealerships and sales strategies might be a big reason folks don’t go

reminds me of what it will be like at the admissions office into a nursing home

[balthazar]

CarMax data:
average mercedes buyer : 43.7 yrs old
average buick buyer : 45.6 yrs old

 

[regfootball]

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/gallery/proof-station-wagons-newest-status-symbol

[balthazar]

Wagons = BEVs :: 2% market penetration. 

[daves87rs]

MY thinking:

EV Bus :local kid pick up

Big D : Will do the more rural and farther routes

 

 

[ocnblu]

Does anyone remember service stations?

[ocnblu]

[ocnblu]

[Drew Dowdell]

16 hours ago, regfootball said:

Sitting at a buick dealer. Why are buick gmc stores always such dead sad yucky places. Go to a Honda shop it’s hopping GM needs to figure out that their dealerships and sales strategies might be a big reason folks don’t go

I don't know about you, but I don't go there to hang out. That said, my Buick dealers have fully staffed cafes and nice lounge areas.

[ocnblu]

It was always a treat as a young boy, when Fall arrived, my uncle would drive me around to all the car dealers.  I would go in and gather up all the sales brochures for the new model year (and read them cover to cover) and we would drive around the back to try to catch a glimpse of the new cars before they were due to go on sale.  Sigh.  Completely different now.

[ocnblu]

Canadian street racers, 1960's.  Valiant.  Datsun.

[balthazar]

^ You used 'datsun' and 'racer' in the same sentence! LOL!!!
- - - - - 
1946 : 

2019 : 

Edited August 25, 2019 by balthazar

[surreal1272]

10 hours ago, balthazar said:

Wagons = BEVs :: 2% market penetration. 

Sadly wagons represent far less than that when it comes market penetration. (At least in the US anyway).

Edited August 25, 2019 by surreal1272

[Robert Hall]

A couple random observations whilst watching a good British police drama (Line of Duty) this past week.... the Brits do seem to love their estates (wagons)...the Ford Mondeo and Vauxhall Insignia wagons have sharp, striking shapes..   

And the trope about M-B taxis even pops up in a TV drama...one character (a lawyer) was driving a black late model Mercedes E-class sedan while spying on his wife, and there is a line about a random person walking up to it thinking it's a 'minicab' (British for private taxi/black car service).  

[regfootball]

3 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I don't know about you, but I don't go there to hang out. That said, my Buick dealers have fully staffed cafes and nice lounge areas.

no one goes to hang out but so many of the newer dealerships are honda, nissan, vw, import name places, and they have really nice areas to sit with fancy coffee machines and those areas generally are really nice spaces to be in.  So if you are getting an oil change, it feels more like a coffee shop or food spot that you like to spend time at.  

my ultimate point was that there were no SHOPPERS there at the dealership either.  Some Buick spots are way better than others, i just think 50% of the Buick GMC dealerships maybe get it, and the other 50% are probably in business until dad the owner dies...its like they haven't a clue about how people shop for vehicles these days.  You gotta have a place people like to go to, and market enough so shoppers are drawn to the business....that is my parting shot at non best price dealerships.  

[balthazar]

I don’t drink coffee and the only time I can recall waiting for service vs. leaving is for tires in a stand-alone tire shop. I have far too busy a schedule to sit for hours and finger chair upholstery.

[Robert Hall]

My local FCA dealer remodeled their waiting room in the last year..it's pretty decent now, adjacent to the showroom w/ a nice coffee machine and tvs.   The previous one looked like it was left over from the 70s--was right next to the service bays and service counter and very loud w/ grubby carpeting. 

When I went in for an oil change, mirror replacement and other maintenance in June I camped out a few hours w/ my laptop and worked and it was fine. 

[G. David Felt]

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

It was always a treat as a young boy, when Fall arrived, my uncle would drive me around to all the car dealers.  I would go in and gather up all the sales brochures for the new model year (and read them cover to cover) and we would drive around the back to try to catch a glimpse of the new cars before they were due to go on sale.  Sigh.  Completely different now.

Thank goodness for the Internet, you can now save all that time looking online, download any PDF file you want on a specific product line all from the comfort of your bed. 

Decide what is of interest to go look at, then get up, shower, get styling and go check out the ones of interest. So much more efficient in the 21st century.

[Robert Hall]

I do kind of miss some aspects of the pre-internet era as far as cars in that new cars were released usually around the same time every year... and the magazines would always have their new car issues which were full of surprises..always looked forward to Car & Driver's annual 'Charting the Changes' issue.    Today with new car announcements year round and online it's all pretty predicable and nothing is a surprise... 

[G. David Felt]

10 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I do kind of miss some aspects of the pre-internet era as far as cars in that new cars were released usually around the same time every year... and the magazines would always have their new car issues which were full of surprises..always looked forward to Car & Driver's annual 'Charting the Changes' issue.    Today with new car announcements year round and online it's all pretty predicable and nothing is a surprise... 

So true and it made the Auto Shows more relevant as you actually would go to see the new releases and check them out. Now it is just a single stop sales athon mess. I will say having the autos on hand to test drive is much better than in the past.

One thing I have never gotten is those that refuse to even go to a dealership to test drive and check out the auto, do 100% online even the purchase and wait for the dealership to come to them to drop off the auto and then they bitch about the auto when they could have saved buyers remorse by getting off their ass and into the dealership. I DO NOT feel sorry for such lazy people.

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

 

One thing I have never gotten is those that refuse to even go to a dealership to test drive and check out the auto, do 100% online even the purchase and wait for the dealership to come to them to drop off the auto and then they bitch about the auto when they could have saved buyers remorse by getting off their ass and into the dealership. I DO NOT feel sorry for such lazy people.

Yeah,  I couldn't imagine buying a vehicle without actually seeing it in person or test driving it.  

When I bought my CPO JGC in 2017,  I did a bunch of research online and checked the inventories of the various dealers around Phoenix and zeroed in on a specific vehicle that had the right equipment/mileage/price combo that I was looking for.  Didn't seriously consider any other brands.   Then I went to the dealer on a Friday afternoon and asked to see and test drive that specific vehicle.      I was time bound in some sense in that I was in the midst of moving to Ohio and my old Jeep was dying, so I moved pretty quickly. 

A lot of people buy used cars on eBay and other sites and have them shipped to them, haven't tried that yet, not sure if I would.  

[ocnblu]

40 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Thank goodness for the Internet, you can now save all that time looking online, download any PDF file you want on a specific product line all from the comfort of your bed. 

Decide what is of interest to go look at, then get up, shower, get styling and go check out the ones of interest. So much more efficient in the 21st century.

Really?  You just don't get it.

[ocnblu]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ You used 'datsun' and 'racer' in the same sentence! LOL!!!

Most likely the Valiant was equipped with a leaning tower of power.  Maybe it was a close race. 

[surreal1272]

36 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Really?  You just don't get it.

26 years in the biz yet it is you who doesn’t get it. More and more folks are using the internet to do just that so enjoy being left behind if you seriously think that he doesn’t get it. 

[ocnblu]

Undergrowth - Vincent Van Gogh, 1887

[G. David Felt]

Quality over Quantity is a thing some people do not get when they cling to hard to a static past as being the best life could ever offer.

It is also why various society's have perished. 

[ocnblu]

51 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

26 years in the biz yet it is you who doesn’t get it. More and more folks are using the internet to do just that so enjoy being left behind if you seriously think that he doesn’t get it. 

I was 12 years old in 1976.  What is this internet you speak of.  My post was about being a young, car crazy kid.  It was the age of innocence.  When things were simple and true.  Injecting the internet into a nostalgic post is clueless.

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

I was 12 years old in 1976.  What is this internet you speak of.  My post was about being a young, car crazy kid.  It was the age of innocence.  When things were simple and true.  Injecting the internet into a nostalgic post is clueless.

Disagree as the point is that that was then and now we have better moving forward and pointing to the past without pointing out the better in the current and how we will get even better in the future is what the end point is about.

[ocnblu]

8 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Disagree as the point is that that was then and now we have better moving forward and pointing to the past without pointing out the better in the current and how we will get even better in the future is what the end point is about.

What language is this?

14 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Quality over Quantity is a thing some people do not get when they cling to hard to a static past as being the best life could ever offer.

It is also why various society's have perished.