Random Thoughts Thread

[G. David Felt]

Very cool write up on the VW MEB platform.

https://chargedevs.com/features/a-look-at-volkswagens-meb-architecture/

[balthazar]

[G. David Felt]

This is what Cadillac needs to push out STAT across all North America. The Return to the Stand Alone LUXURY Cadillac Dealership. 

First one to open brand new from scratch in Canada. The dealership is awesome, the focus on luxury experience first rate based on the read.

@balthazar will love the old Cadillac's they have there.

Kudos to this franchise seeing and taking the chance on doing this right as a Luxury brand.

http://cadillacsociety.com/2019/08/06/how-standalone-cadillac-dealers-are-shifting-sales-strategies/

[balthazar]

My local dealer built a stand-alone building with its own service department, tho it is on the same property as it's companion Chevrolet dealer. Haven't been inside it.
- - - - - 

 

Electric GMC ~ 

[ccap41]

The closest Cadillac dealership to me is stand-alone. 

[Drew Dowdell]

12 hours ago, dfelt said:

This is what Cadillac needs to push out STAT across all North America. The Return to the Stand Alone LUXURY Cadillac Dealership. 

First one to open brand new from scratch in Canada. The dealership is awesome, the focus on luxury experience first rate based on the read.

@balthazar will love the old Cadillac's they have there.

Kudos to this franchise seeing and taking the chance on doing this right as a Luxury brand.

http://cadillacsociety.com/2019/08/06/how-standalone-cadillac-dealers-are-shifting-sales-strategies/

At least two of the stand alone Cadillac dealers in my area look like that. ... though one of them is not truly stand alone as it is on a "campus" of dealerships that include Buick, GMC, Hyundai, Subaru, Mazda, and a big pre-owned lot. 

[riviera74]

The Cadillac dealership nearest me is standalone and has been since it opened shop prior to 1973.

[G. David Felt]

My cadillac dealership is a stand alone now, though in the past they also covered Oldsmobile and Buick. The place shows it's age and smells old. They need to do a massive remodel.

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

My cadillac dealership is a stand alone now, though in the past they also covered Oldsmobile and Buick. The place shows it's age and smells old. They need to do a massive remodel.

My local Cadillac dealership was remodeled only a few years ago.  Cadillac dealerships generally need to impress people and convince them that buying German is a really bad idea from the moment you step in to the moment you leave with a new Cadillac of your choice.

[Robert Hall]

The Caddy dealer in Phoenix that was in my neighborhood moved their GMC and Buick dealer areas across the street---they acquired a former Enterprise rental car property and changed their used lot to new.  They had previously been a Pontiac/Buick/GMC/Cadillac dealer on one corner. 

Here in NE Ohio the Caddy dealers all seem to be stand alone, though one has an Buick/GMC dealer at a separate site.

 

[balthazar]

MOST Cadillac dealers, traditionally (and here I mean the '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s) were paired. In the case of 2 Divisions in one store, via my unofficial observations; it was 85% with Oldsmobile. However, there were a significant portion of 3 or more Divisions in one store, so the overall is actually lower WRT Olds. 

I have been -as a by product of my Pontiac dealer compilation list- contributing to a mid century Cadillac site thread RE Caddy dealerships. "Traditional" stand-alone Cadillac dealerships were probably less than 15% of all Cadillac dealers.
- - - - - 
1910 : 

Edited August 8, 2019 by balthazar

[balthazar]

Summertyme ~ 

[ccap41]

@dfelt, Esssplain this.. The semi versions are going to be garbage if this is any indication.

 

The future, where epa ratings mean absolutely nothing and you get less range than your computer tells you. 

 

[balthazar]

Your limited in charge if there's other people waiting? 2 hrs and 10 minutes to add 78% charge? That sucks.

Here's the deal with the semi, IMO.
In order for it to be competitive, range-wise, with the current leaders, it is going to require 1000s & 1000s of lbs of batteries, and that's going to come out of the cargo capacity. That right there is a huge strike. Then there's the very much a given that it'll cost at least $100K more than the competition and that's 2 big strikes.

[riviera74]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Your limited in charge if there's other people waiting? 2 hrs and 10 minutes to add 78% charge? That sucks.

Here's the deal with the semi, IMO.
In order for it to be competitive, range-wise, with the current leaders, it is going to require 1000s & 1000s of lbs of batteries, and that's going to come out of the cargo capacity. That right there is a huge strike. Then there's the very much a given that it'll cost at least $100K more than the competition and that's 2 big strikes.

Fair points.  That just means that better (read: faster charging), more compact batteries will have to meet the packaging requirements of a tractor-trailer.  We are not quite there yet.

[balthazar]

[ocnblu]

On 8/6/2019 at 10:41 PM, balthazar said:

I'm checking out the Scotsman!

[ccap41]

21 hours ago, ccap41 said:

@dfelt, Esssplain this.. The semi versions are going to be garbage if this is any indication.

 

The future, where epa ratings mean absolutely nothing and you get less range than your computer tells you. 

 

@dfelt have you had the opportunity to check this video out? 

I know I was being a smartass but in all seriousness, it's really interesting. 

[G. David Felt]

@balthazar Saw this, this morning and thought of you as the videos of all the lovely old auto's is awesome. Sad the Farmer is dead, but his collection is on auction today and tomorrow. I would love to have a few of these auto's.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/classic-cars/a-minnesota-farmer-spent-his-life-collecting-cars-and-now-his-gigantic-fleet-is-up-for-auction/ar-AAFxbIe

 

[G. David Felt]

16 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

@dfelt have you had the opportunity to check this video out? 

I know I was being a smartass but in all seriousness, it's really interesting. 

Sorry CCAP41, we have new hire training this week so I have been busy indoctrinating the new herd into the fold of Unstructured Data Storage, AKA Isilon File Storage and ECS Container storage or S3.

Took a quick click click click through the video so have not watched the whole thing, but they hit on valid points about Electric auto's and for hauling the current generation of battery packs is not there for long haul battery packs.

I would like to point out that they CHOSE to not recharge at the halfway point of taking the trailer, common sense hauling is even in an ICE, you would top off your tank to ensure you had range to get to your destination.

I get that they wanted to see how the whole battery pack would handle a drive from point A to B and back, but they also ignore what every other Diesel or gas truck would have done and the would be to top off and ensure you had a full tank to get from point B back to A.

On top of this as I have posted recently is the newer Solid state battery packs that are capable of putting the same kW hold such as the Chevy Bolt in 1/3 the space the currently battery pack takes or you can triple the range.

We are nearing the next evolution of battery packs, currently you have 238 miles in an 800 pound battery pack as I am using the Chevrolet Bolt as my example here. With the new solid state battery packs such as the that designed by 

we can have a 266.7lb battery pack good for 238 miles or 800 lb battery pack good for 714 miles of range. Today electrics fall short much like ICE did in the early 1900's with limited gas stations, roads, etc. Yet today we have much better electrical infastructure, better tech and faster changing evolution of the batteries. Just a matter of time and over the next 10 years I expect many of the objections various folks here have thrown at EVs to disappear.

@ocnblu Go ahead, I expect you to down vote this as usual. Yet this is the beginning of the next revolution in auto transportation and you can enjoy for your last 30-40 years or so your ICE auto. I will move forward with exciting technology on both new auto's and rebuilding of old auto's with EV powertrains.

 

[Drew Dowdell]

20 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I would like to point out that they CHOSE to not recharge at the halfway point of taking the trailer, common sense hauling is even in an ICE, you would top off your tank to ensure you had range to get to your destination.

That was my only issue with the video. They drove nearly 100 miles first before picking up the trailer.  You wouldn't do that normally.  Otherwise, the video was very informative. 

[ccap41]

7 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Sorry CCAP41, we have new hire training this week so I have been busy indoctrinating the new herd into the fold of Unstructured Data Storage, AKA Isilon File Storage and ECS Container storage or S3.

Took a quick click click click through the video so have not watched the whole thing, but they hit on valid points about Electric auto's and for hauling the current generation of battery packs is not there for long haul battery packs.

I would like to point out that they CHOSE to not recharge at the halfway point of taking the trailer, common sense hauling is even in an ICE, you would top off your tank to ensure you had range to get to your destination.

I get that they wanted to see how the whole battery pack would handle a drive from point A to B and back, but they also ignore what every other Diesel or gas truck would have done and the would be to top off and ensure you had a full tank to get from point B back to A.

On top of this as I have posted recently is the newer Solid state battery packs that are capable of putting the same kW hold such as the Chevy Bolt in 1/3 the space the currently battery pack takes or you can triple the range.

We are nearing the next evolution of battery packs, currently you have 238 miles in an 800 pound battery pack as I am using the Chevrolet Bolt as my example here. With the new solid state battery packs such as the that designed by 

we can have a 266.7lb battery pack good for 238 miles or 800 lb battery pack good for 714 miles of range. Today electrics fall short much like ICE did in the early 1900's with limited gas stations, roads, etc. Yet today we have much better electrical infastructure, better tech and faster changing evolution of the batteries. Just a matter of time and over the next 10 years I expect many of the objections various folks here have thrown at EVs to disappear.

@ocnblu Go ahead, I expect you to down vote this as usual. Yet this is the beginning of the next revolution in auto transportation and you can enjoy for your last 30-40 years or so your ICE auto. I will move forward with exciting technology on both new auto's and rebuilding of old auto's with EV powertrains.

 

Yeah, it is a really long video. I only watched the whole thing through as I was doing cardio at the gym and it was entertaining enough to keep my attention.

They chose not to recharge but they also couldn't without going ~30 miles out of the way as that was their closest Supercharger(their starting point for the whole trip). I don't think it would be NECESSARY to top off a diesel for a 200 mile trip though. Any diesel can make ~100 miles unloaded then ~65 loaded and the remaining ~30 back to a charger/station unloaded without worrying about running out of fuel. 

They did better than the ratings empty but when it had a trailer it consumed 33% of range in 33 miles when going 70mph. They only made it back because they had to drop their speed down to 52mph and turn off the climate controls. 

I think the solid state batteries will be a complete game changer. Once you can double the epa rating range in the same packaging, it'll be great. It isn't so much that 238 miles of range or 300 miles of range is too little for 99% of my trips, it's that there is so much variance from hot summers to 60 degree temps, then down to zero degree winters. That's my biggest issue at this point. It's common for an EV to lose 30% of range in the winter so that 238 mile range is now only 167.. 

[Drew Dowdell]

You also don't generally buy a Tesla to regularly tow a horse trailer.  I mean you could... but it's a bit of the wrong product for the job. You don't buy a Panamera to tow a horse trailer either and it has almost the same tow rating as the Model X at 4,850 lbs. 

[ccap41]

3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That was my only issue with the video. They drove nearly 100 miles first before picking up the trailer.  You wouldn't do that normally.  Otherwise, the video was very informative. 

But what vehicle can't do 100 unloaded miles followed by ~65 miles loaded and be completely out of fuel? They wouldn't have made it the ~65 miles without slowing down and turning off the climate control. 

[balthazar]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I don't think it would be NECESSARY to top off a diesel for a 200 mile trip though. Any diesel can make ~100 miles unloaded then ~65 loaded and the remaining ~30 back to a charger/station unloaded without worrying about running out of fuel. 

Of course this is correct. They drove 101 miles to pick up a trailer, “everyone” is not refueling then to do a 101 mile trip. If 78% charge takes 2 hrs, the 33% charge time would be nearly an hour, correct? Who wants to be so inconvenienced by their vehicle like this?

 I get about 290 miles before my low fuel light goes on, but the DuraMax has another 15 gallons in the tank at that point. Towing doesn't noticeably affect MPG.

[ccap41]

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

You also don't generally buy a Tesla to regularly tow a horse trailer.  I mean you could... but it's a bit of the wrong product for the job. You don't buy a Panamera to tow a horse trailer either and it has almost the same tow rating as the Model X at 4,850 lbs. 

No, the horse trailer was just a "thing" that weighed close to what it can tow. It could have been any trailer but then loaded with stuff to get to that weight. Instead they just chose a trailer that weighed what they needed. 

On the plus side of it all, they said it handled the trailer just fine and did a great job outside the decreased range. 

[ccap41]

27 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Of course this is correct. They drove 101 miles to pick up a trailer, “everyone” is not refueling then to do a 101 mile trip. If 78% charge takes 2 hrs, the 33% charge time would be nearly an hour, correct? Who wants to be so inconvenienced by their vehicle like this?

 I get about 290 miles before my low fuel light goes on, but the DuraMax has another 15 gallons in the tank at that point. Towing doesn't noticeably affect MPG.

Exactly, it isn't such an adventure that it should require a complete fuel-up for such a trip.

At the very end of the video when they were down to 1% getting to the Supercharger the timer said 2hr 12m for a full charge..

Realistically, this isn't much of an issue because like Drew said, people aren't towing with their Teslas. BUT, these companies are working on semi trucks that are EV.. Are their 500 mile estimates realistically like 125 miles? Do they need 10,000 mile "estimates" to be able to actually do work? 

[Drew Dowdell]

30 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Of course this is correct. They drove 101 miles to pick up a trailer, “everyone” is not refueling then to do a 101 mile trip. If 78% charge takes 2 hrs, the 33% charge time would be nearly an hour, correct? Who wants to be so inconvenienced by their vehicle like this?

 I get about 290 miles before my low fuel light goes on, but the DuraMax has another 15 gallons in the tank at that point. Towing doesn't noticeably affect MPG.

Because the Duramax is built for towing. Like I said, you could tow almost as much with a Panamera as well.... but you don't buy a Panamera for towing. 

(I picked the Panamera because it is currently the sedan with the greatest towing capacity)

[ccap41]

Anything else that is rated for 5000lb can drive 100 miles unloaded, 65 miles loaded, and 30 miles unloaded back to a station without having to turn the AC off. 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Anything else that is rated for 5000lb can drive 100 miles unloaded, 65 miles loaded, and 30 miles unloaded back to a station without having to turn the AC off. 

Do you think they have 20s or 22s on that Tesla?

[G. David Felt]

53 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

But what vehicle can't do 100 unloaded miles followed by ~65 miles loaded and be completely out of fuel? They wouldn't have made it the ~65 miles without slowing down and turning off the climate control. 

True, did they state the size of battery pack? I wonder if it was the default small battery pack as the miles stated seems to imply that and if you had the P100D battery pack, that would make a difference over the default basic pack I would think.

[ccap41]

8 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Do you think they have 20s or 22s on that Tesla?

They mentioned it has the 20's and not 22's. 22's lowered the range and towing capacity but I don't remember by how much. 

3 minutes ago, dfelt said:

True, did they state the size of battery pack? I wonder if it was the default small battery pack as the miles stated seems to imply that and if you had the P100D battery pack, that would make a difference over the default basic pack I would think.

Whatever battery pack gives them 325 miles of range, is what they had. 

[G. David Felt]

26 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Exactly, it isn't such an adventure that it should require a complete fuel-up for such a trip.

At the very end of the video when they were down to 1% getting to the Supercharger the timer said 2hr 12m for a full charge..

Realistically, this isn't much of an issue because like Drew said, people aren't towing with their Teslas. BUT, these companies are working on semi trucks that are EV.. Are their 500 mile estimates realistically like 125 miles? Do they need 10,000 mile "estimates" to be able to actually do work? 

The EV Semi's have also been stated that they are focused on inner city delivery where quiet and delivery strength is a short but all day route which makes much more sense than on long haul where either electric semi with generator of say LNG or Diesel would make greater sense.

I do wish Tesla would release more detail proof of their semi hauling the 80K pound loads up and down hills and the actual range they got. With that said, the lack of details has not stopped UPS, FedEx, Amazon and others from placing orders for the trucks and they all have pretty much said it would be used for inner city deliveries to inner warehouse moving around of trailers where cleaner and less maintenance is desired.

Gonna be interesting to see what comes of it.

10 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

They mentioned it has the 20's and not 22's. 22's lowered the range and towing capacity but I don't remember by how much. 

Whatever battery pack gives them 325 miles of range, is what they had. 

Thank you, yup that is the basic default battery pack. It would be interesting to get the top of the line battery pack and see how it does the same trip.

[G. David Felt]

Recession coming based on oil trade changes.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/us-oil-is-likely-to-be-chinas-next-target-as-trade-war-rages-energy-analysts-warn/ar-AAFz5vu?li=BBnbfcL

Hopefully everyone is focused on minimizing their debt to weather out the upcoming storm.

[Drew Dowdell]

21 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

They mentioned it has the 20's and not 22's. 22's lowered the range and towing capacity but I don't remember by how much. 

It's cut to 3500 lbs on 22s. That's why I asked.

[ccap41]

25 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Thank you, yup that is the basic default battery pack. It would be interesting to get the top of the line battery pack and see how it does the same trip.

Looking on their website, it is considered the "Long Range" model. 

They also don't state a larger battery for the "Performance" model.

16 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It's cut to 3500 lbs on 22s. That's why I asked.

Oh yeah, those guys are good with staying within manufacturer specifications. 

[G. David Felt]

35 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Looking on their website, it is considered the "Long Range" model. 

They also don't state a larger battery for the "Performance" model.

Weird, have not checked the site in a long time, but they had at one time allowed the P100D battery pack as an upgrade battery to the 325 mile battery pack. Interesting. Guess the month to month changes are real. Crazy that Tesla cannot seem to stay with a consistent sales model of what is and is not available and upgrade versus regular or premium.

Thank you for letting me know.

Will be interesting to test this same test against the F150 and Rivian trucks when they come out.

[ccap41]

21 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Weird, have not checked the site in a long time, but they had at one time allowed the P100D battery pack as an upgrade battery to the 325 mile battery pack. Interesting. Guess the month to month changes are real. Crazy that Tesla cannot seem to stay with a consistent sales model of what is and is not available and upgrade versus regular or premium.

Thank you for letting me know.

Will be interesting to test this same test against the F150 and Rivian trucks when they come out.

It would drive me nuts if i was in the market for a Tesla seeing how they change pricing and stuff every other month. You could overpay one month by a very significant amount and the next month your neighbor bought the car for 10k cheaper and gets free Supercharger charges. 

I want them to succeed but doing things like this would just rub be in the wrong way if I was in the market for one. Like, when do you make a purchase? You and I see all of these constant changes so we would know to probably wait it out some but next thing we know they'll jump the price again.. 

I'm interested to see how the Model X(along with the other two you mentioned) does up the mountain they pull everything with. they did have a short clip that foreshadowed the run and they mentioned having to use throttle going downhill because it "engine" braked so well. 

[balthazar]

7 hours ago, ccap41 said:

At the very end of the video when they were down to 1% getting to the Supercharger the timer said 2hr 12m for a full charge..

It wasn't a full charge; they were limited to only an 80% charge (in 2 hrs, 10 mins) because there was a wait for the superchargers at that stop.
I'm still seeing Teslas all. the. time. snugged up to chargers in mid-morning. 3 today at 10AM, no one in any of the 3 cars (must been snorking coffee at Panera). Charge at home, people, you bought a $100K car; you should be able to afford the $12 to charge it!

[balthazar]

6 hours ago, dfelt said:

Recession coming based on oil trade changes.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/us-oil-is-likely-to-be-chinas-next-target-as-trade-war-rages-energy-analysts-warn/ar-AAFz5vu?li=BBnbfcL

VERY short term window for this analysis. '9 month high imports into China'.
Also note that even were China's imports to go to zero, they're only about 12% of US exports, which have been on a fairly steady rise over the last SIX years. Going to zero by itself in China isn't nearly enough to swing the needle over to national recession, sorry.

[daves87rs]

12 hours ago, dfelt said:

Recession coming based on oil trade changes.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/us-oil-is-likely-to-be-chinas-next-target-as-trade-war-rages-energy-analysts-warn/ar-AAFz5vu?li=BBnbfcL

Hopefully everyone is focused on minimizing their debt to weather out the upcoming storm.

Um, debt is not going to our only problem....this country has a rage almost never seen before. Add the rage and anger to a downturn in the economy, and the “poop” will really fly...

 

I’m actually more concerned for my safety...something I never thought I would say.....

[ocnblu]

I haven't had fish sticks in a while.  Maybe it is high time I put fish sticks on my grocery store list.  I'll make stewed tomatoes on the side, of course.  (Sry to take "random thoughts" off the topic of EVs)

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I haven't had fish sticks in a while.  Maybe it is high time I put fish sticks on my grocery store list.  I'll make stewed tomatoes on the side, of course.  (Sry to take "random thoughts" off the topic of EVs)

Trying to avoid fried foods, but a nice pan seared trout sounds fantastic. I still need to make it out to PA and buy you lunch. 

Stewed Tomatoes sound wonderful also. 

Admire how you cook...love seeing your meals pop up on Facebook. 

Assume you are cooking with Gas and not electric....nothing like cooking with gas...!

14 hours ago, balthazar said:

VERY short term window for this analysis. '9 month high imports into China'.
Also note that even were China's imports to go to zero, they're only about 12% of US exports, which have been on a fairly steady rise over the last SIX years. Going to zero by itself in China isn't nearly enough to swing the needle over to national recession, sorry.

They will buy oil from Iran cheaply. they really are not going to let us shun them into abandoning the Iranians, like the current administration is trying to do with the European countries. 

15 hours ago, balthazar said:

It wasn't a full charge; they were limited to only an 80% charge (in 2 hrs, 10 mins) because there was a wait for the superchargers at that stop.
I'm still seeing Teslas all. the. time. snugged up to chargers in mid-morning. 3 today at 10AM, no one in any of the 3 cars (must been snorking coffee at Panera). Charge at home, people, you bought a $100K car; you should be able to afford the $12 to charge it!

Still seeing lots of Teslas, but ICE isn't going away for at least 50 years, by which time I will be cremated and dreaming of Vintage GTO's in the ethereal non existent afterlife. 

21 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

It's cut to 3500 lbs on 22s. That's why I asked.

Funny, RAM Power wagon models don't seem to be impacted by larger wheels. A Nice 1 ton diesel Dually would tow with aplomb. 

[A Horse With No Name]

8 hours ago, daves87rs said:

Um, debt is not going to our only problem....this country has a rage almost never seen before. Add the rage and anger to a downturn in the economy, and the “poop” will really fly...

 

I’m actually more concerned for my safety...something I never thought I would say.....

Without being too political, I am worried about the constitution. Conservatives don't seem to like the first amendment, liberals don't seem to like the second.

Neither side likes the 4th.

 NSA spying and the like is a violation of our freedom people don't seem to worry about. Add in creeping authoritarianism world wide and an unsound lack of critical thinking. Government control will creep more into our lives in all of the wrong ways. 

Edited August 10, 2019 by A Horse With No Name

[balthazar]

Government is not your friend and is not ‘in your corner’.

[G. David Felt]

I wonder if the world is not pushing towards a government system much like that in the Movie Starship troopers.

You have a cast system of the rich and not being citizens is OK with them as they have the money and everyone else that must serve the global gov to get citizenship and basic benefits.

Agree with much of what everyone here thinks about the lack of respect for the constitution.

In other random thoughts, I think China will ignor and join Russian in full normal relations with Iran and take all their oil negating the idiots in DC of our country.

Within 50 years, you will have to have a special permit to own and drive an ICE auto.

Electric auto's with Solid state batteries are our future.

[ocnblu]

Ugh, this thread has taken a turn for the worse.

[G. David Felt]

Generations is a good way to look at an auto. Cadillac has continually improved.

Vinyl wrap a new truck to look old? ? I just do not get these wraps.

[daves87rs]

15 hours ago, ocnblu said:

I haven't had fish sticks in a while.  Maybe it is high time I put fish sticks on my grocery store list.  I'll make stewed tomatoes on the side, of course.  (Sry to take "random thoughts" off the topic of EVs)

Fish sticks do sound good.....

[balthazar]

Go to sleep at 10:45, wake up at 4:41. 6 hrs is it for me. Now its 5:15, waiting for the sun. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by balthazar