Random Thoughts Thread

[Robert Hall]

IIRC, the west coast of Michigan on Lake Michigan has some nice sandy beaches and dunes...but I haven't been over there in 20+ years.   I've been to beaches on Lake Michigan, Lake Huron and Lake Erie, never been to Lake Superior or Lake Ontario.  

[balthazar]

JZDeLorean, circa '65 ~

[Drew Dowdell]

On 2/18/2019 at 8:20 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Individual results will vary. The overall trend with tax returns isn't looking good for the short term economy.

As I was saying....

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2019-tax-refunds-smaller-tax-refunds-are-now-hurting-retail-spending-wall-street-fears-2019-04-03/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0h&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_content=5ca942c2e6dfda0001dc8b6f&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

 

• Analysts say this year's lower tax refunds are largely to blame for a sizable drop in retail spending in the first quarter.
• UBS says its initial estimate of tax refunds received this season was too optimistic by a whopping $25 billion.  
• For the median family's refund amounted to more than three weeks' pay last year, JP Morgan Chase found.
• The refund shortfall comes at an awkward time—just as the economy is already cooling off after last year's tax-cut-fueled spending jump.  

[balthazar]

>>"Analysts say that lower tax refunds are largely to blame for the drop in spending, since many families use refunds as a "mandatory saving" mechanism that pays out each year come tax time."<<
• If people are spending this on retail purchases, they aren't saving it, are they?
• Article states actual Jan-Feb drop was a mere 0.6%.
• The entire approach of having the IRS hold your money for a year plus, then you splurge spend it when they give it back to you is why such a large percentage of Americans have no savings/retirement funding.

>>"lower refunds means less spending money. "<<
Disingenuous. Tax brackets were adjusted downward, therefore most people saw larger paychecks throughout the year (no way to say how that stacked up against 2018 on the exact same circumstances).

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't know your financial background Balth, but I'm inclined to put more credence on the people at UBS and Morgan Stanley.

[balthazar]

I'm not disputing the factoids as sourced from MS or UBS. I'm challenging the selective light they were cherry-picked to present by the CBS writer. The choice of words even in the title ("hurting") sets the tone before you read it. Where was the mention of adjusted tax brackets or the reminder about withholding adjustments?

This source published 04.01:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/01/retail-sales-february-2019.html
says January consumer spending numbers were revised upward from +0.2 to +0.7, and February's numbers were only down -0.2.
Apparently (CNBC / Reuters) is stating that since Jan 1, retail spending is actually UP +0.5%. What do I do with that info tomorrow morning? If being down 0.6% is "hurting" and 'representative of a slide', is being up 0.5% cause for a celebration?

These, IMO, are percentages of no consequence. Retail fluctuates on a number of factors, all the time. Me, I try and avoid a 'sky is falling, again' leaps of faiths. BTW : I don't think any of the statements I made above can be argued against (successfully).

Edited April 12, 2019 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

35 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

 I'm inclined to put more credence on the people at UBS and Morgan Stanley.

I dont really care either way...(even if Im Canadian and this is about the President of the Untied States of America and his tax breaks) but...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_Stanley

 

since 2003, Morgan Stanley has sure paid a lot of fines for um...questionable business practices...I wouldnt be putting too much worth on what Morgan Stanley says...

Im sure they got their own political and economical reasons and biases to um...be less than favorable on certain outcomes of what the President wanted to do with his tax breaks...

Corruption, con artistry and thievery  is...um...a thing for big business in the USA right about now...(and it seems long before Mr. Trump took office, but then again, he was and still is a cog in the wheel of big business)

I aint denying what they are saying, Im just saying I wouldnt put too much faith in their words because to me...they are sumbitches like every other con artist in history of mankind...

 

 

Controversies and lawsuits[edit]

2003[edit]

In 2003, Morgan Stanley agreed to pay $125 million in order to settle its portion of a $1.4 billion settlement brought by Eliot Spitzer, the Attorney General of New York, the National Association of Securities Dealers (now the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA), the United States Securities and Exchange Commission, (SEC) and a number of state securities regulators, relating to intentionally misleading research motivated by a desire to win investment banking business with the companies covered.^[51]

2004[edit]

In June 2004, the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) imposed a penalty of a censure and $140,000 fine for incorrectly using customers' margined securities as collateral for cash management loans.^[52]

In 2004, Morgan Stanley settled a sex discrimination suit brought by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission for $54 million.^[53] In 2007, the firm agreed to pay $46 million to settle a class action lawsuit brought by eight female brokers.^[54]

In July 2004, the firm paid NASD a $2.2 million fine for more than 1,800 late disclosures of reportable information about its brokers.^[55]

In September 2004, the firm paid a $19 million fine imposed by NYSE for failure to deliver prospectuses to customers in registered offerings, inaccurate reporting of certain program trading information, short sale violations, failures to fingerprint new employees and failure to timely file exchange forms.^[56]

In December 2004, the firm paid a $100,000 fine to NASD and $211,510 in restitution to customers for failure to make proper disclosures to municipal bond investors. In the course of NASD's investigation, Morgan Stanley's failure to make a timely response to requests for information resulted in censure and an additional $25,000 fine.^[57]

2005[edit]

The New York Stock Exchange imposed a $19 million fine on January 12, 2005 for alleged regulatory and supervisory lapses. At the time, it was the largest fine ever imposed by the New York Stock Exchange.^[58]

On May 16, 2005, a Florida jury found that Morgan Stanley failed to give adequate information to Ronald Perelman about Sunbeam thereby defrauding him and causing damages to him of $604 million. In addition, punitive damages were added for total damages of $1.450 billion. This verdict was directed by the judge as a sanction against Morgan Stanley after the firm's attorneys infuriated the court by failing and refusing to produce documents, and falsely telling the court that certain documents did not exist.^[59] The ruling was overturned on March 21, 2007 and Morgan Stanley was no longer required to pay the $1.57 billion verdict.^[60]

2006[edit]

Morgan Stanley settled a class action lawsuit on March 2, 2006. It had been filed in California by both current and former Morgan Stanley employees for unfair labor practices instituted to those in the financial advisor training program. Employees of the program had claimed the firm expected trainees to clock overtime hours without additional pay and handle various administrative expenses as a result of their expected duties. A $42.5 million settlement was reached and Morgan Stanley admitted no fault.^[61]

In May the firm agreed to pay a $15 million fine. The Securities and Exchange Commission accused the firm of deleting emails and failing to cooperate with SEC investigators.^[62]

On September 25, 2009, Citigroup Inc. filed a federal lawsuit against Morgan Stanley, claiming its rival failed to pay $245 million due under a credit default swap agreement. The breach-of-contract lawsuit was filed in Manhattan federal court and seeks unspecified damages.^[63]

2007[edit]

The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA) announced a $12.5 million settlement with Morgan Stanley on September 27, 2007. This resolved charges that the firm's former affiliate, Morgan Stanley DW, Inc. (MSDW), failed on numerous occasions to provide emails to claimants in arbitration proceedings as well as to regulators. The company had claimed that the destruction of the firm's email servers in the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on New York's World Trade Center resulted in the loss of all email before that date. In fact, the firm had millions of earlier emails that had been retrieved from backup copies stored in another location that was not destroyed in the attacks.^[64] Customers who had lost their arbitration cases against Morgan Stanley DW Inc. because of their inability to obtain these emails to demonstrate Morgan Stanley's misconduct received a token amount of money as a result of the settlement.

In July 2007, Morgan Stanley agreed to pay $4.4 million to settle a class-action lawsuit. The firm was accused of incorrectly charging clients for storage of precious metals.^[65]

In August 2007, Morgan Stanley was fined $1.5 million and paid $4.6 million in restitution to customers related to excessive mark-ups in 2,800 transactions. An employee was charged $40,000 and suspended for 15 days.^[66]

2008[edit]

Under a settlement with New York Attorney General Andrew M. Cuomo, the firm agreed to repurchase approximately $4.5 billion worth of auction rate securities. The firm was accused of misrepresenting auction rate securities in their sales and marketing.^[67]

2009[edit]

In March 2009, FINRA announced Morgan Stanley was to pay more than $7 million for misconduct in the handling the accounts of 90 Rochester, NY-area retirees. ^[68]

In May 2009, a trader at the firm was suspended by the FSA for a series of unauthorized commodities trades entered after becoming intoxicated during a three and half hour lunch.^[69] A week later another trader at the firm was banned for deliberately disadvantaging clients by 'pre-hedging' trades without their consent.^[70]

The Financial Services Authority fined the firm £1.4m for failing to use controls properly relating to the actions of a rogue trader on one of its trading desks. Morgan Stanley admitted on June 18, 2008 this resulted in a $120m loss for the firm.^[71]

Morgan Stanley managing director Du Jun was convicted of insider trading after a criminal trial in Hong Kong. Mr. Du was accused of buying 26.7 million shares of Citic Resource Holdings while in possession of confidential information about the company. He gained this information as part of a Morgan Stanley team working with the company on a bond issuance and the purchase of an oil field in Kazakhstan. Morgan Stanley's compliance department was criticized for failing to detect Mr. Du's illegal trades.^[72]

2010[edit]

In April, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission announced the firm agreed to pay $14 million related to an attempt to hide prohibited trading activity in oil futures.^[73]

2011[edit]

A Morgan Stanley trader was barred from the brokerage industry and fined for entering fake trades to fool firm risk management systems causing millions in losses.^[74]

The Department of Justice sought a $4.8 million fine from Morgan Stanley for its part in an electricity price-fixing scandal. Con Edison estimated that the crime cost New York state consumers about $300 million. Morgan Stanley earned revenues of $21.6 million from the fraud.^[75]

2012[edit]

On April 3, the Federal Reserve announced a Consent Order against the firm for "a pattern of misconduct and negligence in residential mortgage loan servicing and foreclosure processing." The consent order requires the firm to review foreclosure proceedings conducted by the firm. The firm will also be responsible for monetary sanctions. ^[76]

Garth R. Peterson, one of Morgan Stanley’s highest-ranking real estate executives in China, pleaded guilty on April 25 to violating U.S. federal anticorruption laws. He was charged with secretly acquiring millions of dollars' worth of property investments for himself and a Chinese government official. The official steered business to Morgan Stanley.^[77]

Morgan Stanley was fined $55,000 by Nasdaq OMX for three separate violations of exchange rules. A Morgan Stanley client algorithm started buying and selling enormous volumes by mistake. Furthermore, after the exchange detected the error, they were unable to contact the employee responsible.^[78] Morgan Stanley settled a claim from FINRA and paid restitution together totaling almost $2.4 million. Morgan Stanley was accused of improperly supervising and training financial advisors in the use of non-traditional ETF products. This resulted in inappropriate recommendations to several of its retail brokerage customers.^[79]

Morgan Stanley is facing lawsuits and government investigation surrounding the Facebook IPO. It is claimed that Morgan Stanley downgraded their earnings forecasts for the company while conducting the IPO roadshow. Allegedly, they passed this information to only a handful of institutional investors. "The allegations, if true, are a matter of regulatory concern" to FINRA and the SEC according to FINRA Chairman Richard Ketchum.^[80]

Morgan Stanley agreed to pay a $5 million fine to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and an additional $1.75 million to CME and the Chicago Board of Trade. Morgan Stanley employees improperly executed fictitious sales in Eurodollar and Treasury Note futures contracts.^[81]

On August 7, 2012, it was announced that Morgan Stanley would have to pay $4.8 million in fines in order to settle a price fixing scandal, which has been estimated to have cost New Yorkers $300 million to date. Morgan Stanley has currently made no admission of any wrongdoing; however, the Justice Department commented that they hoped this would "send a message to the banking industry".^[82]

2014[edit]

In February, Morgan Stanley agreed to pay $1.25 billion to the US government, as a penalty for concealing the full risk associated with mortgage securities with the Federal Housing Finance Agency.^[83]

In September 2014, Morgan Stanley agreed to pay $95 million to resolve a lawsuit pursued by the Public Employees' Retirement System of Mississippi (MissPERS) and the West Virginia Investment Management Board. Morgan Stanley was accused of misleading investors in mortgage-backed securities.^[84]

2015[edit]

In May 2015, Morgan Stanley was fined $2 million for short-interest reporting and rule violations for more than six years, by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority. ^[85]

In June 2015, the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority announced that it fined Morgan Stanley Smith Barney, LLC (Morgan Stanley) $650,000 for failing to implement reasonable supervisory systems to monitor the transmittal of customer funds to third-party accounts. ^[86]

2016[edit]

February 2016, Morgan Stanley will pay $3.2 billion to strike a settlement with state and federal authorities over Morgan Stanley’s creation of mortgage-backed bonds before the financial crisis. ^[87]

August 2016, Morgan Stanley Hong Kong Securities Ltd., was fined HK$18.5 million ($2.4 million) by Hong Kong’s securities regulator, Securities and Futures Commission, for violations of Hong Kong’s Code of Conduct. Included was Morgan Stanley’s failure to avoid conflict of interest between principal and agency trading.^[88]

December 2016, another unit of Morgan Stanley paid $7.5 million to settle customer protection rule violations.^[89]

2017[edit]

In January 2017, the corporation was fined $13 million due to overbilling and violating investor asset safeguarding custody rules. Morgan Stanley agreed to pay the fine without commenting on the charges.^[89]

2018[edit]

Douglas E. Greenberg, a broker, was placed on administrative leave in 2018, after it was reported in March 2018 that four women from Lake Oswego, Oregon had sought police protection against him over a 15-year period for allegations of harassment, threats, and assault.^[90][91][92] According to the report, executives at Morgan Stanley were aware of the allegations, and knew of at least two arrests and a federal subpoena against Greenberg, but did not take any action.^[93] Greenberg had previously been charged for violating another restraining order against a different ex-girlfriend, and had pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor charge of criminal trespassing. In 2016, Morgan Stanley offices received federal subpoenas regarding allegations of abuse involving Greenberg's ex-wife in 2016.^[90] The story has been called a #MeToo moment for Portland's financial service industry.^[92] Greenberg managed tens of millions of dollars for Morgan Stanley and had made the 2018 Forbes list for top wealth advisors in Oregon.^[90][94] After the report, a representative for Morgan Stanley said Greenberg was on "administrative leave pending further review of this situation".^[90] Greenberg's Twitter account continued to tweet investment advice after he was placed on leave by Morgan Stanley.^[91]

Edited April 7, 2019 by oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

And they're still smarter than any of us on finance.

[oldshurst442]

3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

And they're still smarter than any of us on finance.

There is nothing to finance.

There is NO secret formula.  No magic...

Well...I am wrong.  Im sorry. 

The mystery to finance for big business is...deception and thievery.  That is it! 

On the grass roots of business, the secret is:

1.Location Location Location

2.Hard work

3.Have a product or service that you could sell and make money on it. 

And the order does not matter as all three are equally important. 

When the grass roots grow and when the business becomes bigger, then greed kicks in...

And THAT is when con artistry, thievery and deception kicks in...

That is it! Nothing else! 

 

 

[G. David Felt]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

>>"lower refunds means less spending money. "<<
Disingenuous. Tax brackets were adjusted downward, therefore most people saw larger paychecks throughout the year (no way to say how that stacked up against 2018 on the exact same circumstances).

MOST PEOPLE? I know I am not poor but am not rich and most of my coworkers barely saw a blip in their paycheck as did I, the few extra dollars every 2 weeks did nothing for changing the way I save / spend.

I honestly do not know where the media or idiot leadership in DC got saying that paychecks would get bigger.

Considering the years of no pay raises due to the depression we were in from 2007 to 2012, Costs have gone up and so there is no extra money for splurging. I doubt with the increased craziness of costs that anyone noticed that they had extra income to spend in their paychecks.

[frogger]

11 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

IIRC, the west coast of Michigan on Lake Michigan has some nice sandy beaches and dunes...but I haven't been over there in 20+ years.   I've been to beaches on Lake Michigan, Lake Huron and Lake Erie, never been to Lake Superior or Lake Ontario.  

Lake Huron has my favourites, from the rugged Bruce Peninsula

 

To the more conventional Sauble beach.

[daves87rs]

12 minutes ago, dfelt said:

MOST PEOPLE? I know I am not poor but am not rich and most of my coworkers barely saw a blip in their paycheck as did I, the few extra dollars every 2 weeks did nothing for changing the way I save / spend.

I honestly do not know where the media or idiot leadership in DC got saying that paychecks would get bigger.

Considering the years of no pay raises due to the depression we were in from 2007 to 2012, Costs have gone up and so there is no extra money for splurging. I doubt with the increased craziness of costs that anyone noticed that they had extra income to spend in their paychecks.

Well, I know I did not see much of a refund...and that included adjusting for the less that was taken out of our paychecks. I do not know of anyone who made out on the extra few bucks saved. And once the EIC and healthcare credits are gone, no one will be getting much back...

And you know things are getting bad when Wall Street depends on folks getting that big refund check...because they know folks will spend it. We are getting to a point (even with places like Amazon) where the money and credit will simply run out.....

It’s also why we are finally seeing a slight pay increase in wages after nearly 15 years of no increases. Spending power does not go up when this happens, made worse now with how fast inflation has increased in the last year, not counting those last 15 or so...

Heck, my favorite salsa has gone from 2.49 to 3.89 just within this year. A 20oz Pepsi from 1.59 to 2.19. Simple things are just seeing crazy increases, and not just to the newer wages....

If Mexican products see that increase- it might make 2008-09 look like a walk in the park.....

[oldshurst442]

^^^  Those are pretty nice beaches.  These are lake beaches???!!!  They freakin' look like sea beaches!!! Mind you, the Great Lakes ARE bigger than most countries...

There is another reason why I equate the Great Lakes to Niagara Falls and the Saint Lawrence River. 

Blame the CBC and the Government of Canada for that. I was raised on that little video clip watching Mr.Dressup and the Friendly Giant. 

If you click on the youtube video, you will notice that the only unmistakable glimpse of a Great Lake IS Niagara Falls and then we KNOW the Saint Lawrence River comes next as we could clearly see the CN Tower (Toranah as Don Cherry says it), Montreal (the American Exposition @ Expo'67)  and leading to Quebec City. (On land mind you, but Chateau Frontenac is front and center and the Saint Lawrence is back!!!)

From Canada's Coast to Coast is quite clear. Niagara Falls is quite apparent! No other clear hint of the other 4 Great Lakes though... 

 

And since Im feeling quite proud to be Canadian...here is another for you my Canadian brother!  (@Frogger)

From CBC  again!  I always LOVED that kiss at the end. I was no older than that blonde kid myself when I first saw that clip! 

Brings a tear to my eye!

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

...the few extra dollars every 2 weeks did nothing for changing the way I save / spend.

Good for you; it shouldn't.

3 hours ago, daves87rs said:

...made worse now with how fast inflation has increased in the last year, not counting those last 15 or so...

Inflation is on a long-term downward trend, was below 2% in Feb & March :
 

[balthazar]

[balthazar]

18 hours ago, daves87rs said:

I do not know of anyone who made out on the extra few bucks saved.

7 tax brackets, with slightly altered income tiers. A given person may have moved from one bracket to another, but you'd have to have been at the very top of one bracket & gotten a decent raise. Sure; that happened... but they would've been bumped to the next bracket under the old tiers too, and paid 3% more tax on top of that.

If your household made -say- $65K, your standard deduction doubled to $24K, and you rate slipped slightly by 3%. That's pretty good bottom line. But you should have adjusted your withholdings to reflect that 3% lower rate, or your owed tax is -yes- going to go up; you 'made' more. 

[ccap41]

I ended up with more cash in my pocket after 2018. More per paycheck and end of year taxes were a little more than last year, federally. Now my state taxes have gone up. Overall, there was more money brought home than taxed.

[Drew Dowdell]

31 minutes ago, balthazar said:

7 tax brackets, with slightly altered income tiers. A given person may have moved from one bracket to another, but you'd have to have been at the very top of one bracket & gotten a decent raise. Sure; that happened... but they would've been bumped to the next bracket under the old tiers too, and paid 3% more tax on top of that.

If your household made -say- $65K, your standard deduction doubled to $24K, and you rate slipped slightly by 3%. That's pretty good bottom line. But you should have adjusted your withholdings to reflect that 3% lower rate, or your owed tax is -yes- going to go up; you 'made' more. 

That doesn't tell the whole story. The deductions all got mangled and now you can't deduction things you could before.. Sure the standard deduction is higher, but for many people that doesn't counteract the loss of their other deductions... especially in high-cost-of-living states. 

3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I ended up with more cash in my pocket after 2018. More per paycheck and end of year taxes were a little more than last year, federally. Now my state taxes have gone up. Overall, there was more money brought home than taxed.

You're not a homeowner yet are you? (I don't remember if you bought that building or not)

[balthazar]

With the tax code as convoluted & voluminous as it is, it's pretty much impossible to 'tell the whole story' and there will ALWAYS be exceptions.

While some people may owe more due to deduction changes, one can still itemize if their itemizing is higher than the S.D.. No longer allowed is 'miscellaneous', such as tax prep fees, investment management fees (a new tax on the 'rich', right?) and unreimbursed employee expenses- difficult to qualify for last year as it was.

Another discontinued deduction is that of home equity loan interest- that'll affect some negatively. Of course, in ANY scenario- someone has to get bitten.

The majority, I would think from looking at the info I saw, will see more money in their pocket. The emphasis on refunds in misleading to the whole picture.

[ccap41]

33 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You're not a homeowner yet are you? (I don't remember if you bought that building or not)

Yes, I am and was last year as well. 

[Drew Dowdell]

13 minutes ago, balthazar said:

The majority, I would think from looking at the info I saw, will see more money in their pocket. The emphasis on refunds in misleading to the whole picture.

While that may be true, it doesn't change the psychological fact that a big check in April helped move consumer spending along in a way that an extra $50 per pay doesn't do. 

[ykX]

7 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

While that may be true, it doesn't change the psychological fact that a big check in April helped move consumer spending along in a way that an extra $50 per pay doesn't do. 

The big check in April might help economy, but I think the goal for a financially smart person has to be to end up as close to zero as possible: not to own anything to the government and not to get a big refund either.  A big refund means that you are overpaying your taxes during the year.

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, ykX said:

The big check in April might help economy, but I think the goal for a financially smart person has to be to end up as close to zero as possible: not to own anything to the government and not to get a big refund either.  A big refund means that you are overpaying your taxes during the year.

Again, I get that.   The premise of my original post was that the change would hurt sales of big ticket items like cars and appliances..... that's what appears to be happening. 

[G. David Felt]

10 minutes ago, ykX said:

The big check in April might help economy, but I think the goal for a financially smart person has to be to end up as close to zero as possible: not to own anything to the government and not to get a big refund either.  A big refund means that you are overpaying your taxes during the year.

That is me, I never have had to pay in more than a 100 or so and never got a refund more than 100 or so. I like to keep myself to as near a zero as possible.

Live within your means, that is my moto. Way I raised my kids too.

9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Again, I get that.   The premise of my original post was that the change would hurt sales of big ticket items like cars and appliances..... that's what appears to be happening. 

Totally agree that people did focus on it as a way to buy big ticket items and now it will change for many.

[balthazar]

45 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

While that may be true, it doesn't change the psychological fact that a big check in April helped move consumer spending along in a way that an extra $50 per pay doesn't do. 

• Don't feed the Psychological Bears.
• People should save more, esp those who believe a recession is rumbling down the 'pike.

Lesser refunds is a GOOD thing (and on other counts, too). OK; so Big Flat TV sales don't spike; it'll all work out in the end.

[oldshurst442]

Havent most if not all Americans of a certain wealth have bought big screen TVs?

I mean, how many big flat TVs does an American household need to own?

I mean, does an American household need to continuously spend every last cent they make on big screen TVs or any other consumer gadget?

I mean, when can an American household free itself from over spending?

Can an American household EVER be free of the shackles of consumer consumption?

I mean, I know the American economy goes round and round with the consumption of consumer goods, but ya'll dont see how destructive it is when any money back that is given from any source is immediately calculated on how the American consumer MUST give it back through consumption?

8 minutes ago, balthazar said:

• People should save more, esp those who believe a recession is rumbling down the 'pike.

Yes! people SHOULD be saving more!!! People should be spending less. A lot less than they have! 

Its a myth that the American economy needs to be successful by having Americans OVERconsume...

There was once upon a time where the American economy thrived by having Americans be SMART about their finances and NOT be consuming voraciously...

Coincidentally, that was the  time period when the President is referring to as making America Great Again

I get the socio-political innuendo that that entails, but, at THAT point in time, the American household was more fiscally responsible...

Why does today's world involve big business and corporations to rule over us?

Why does every last red cent the American household makes and saves be tallied as and compared to and analyzed as how much the American household should be spending?  On big ticket items?

I make and save 5 bucks, but I have to fork it over to some phoquing corporation and buy something and put me into debt? 

The government cut me a check for 50 bucks, but now, I have to spend it on a 2000 dollar big ticket item for the benefit of a corporation?

Is this what it is Im reading here? 

No wonder Im all pissy today!

No wonder why @ccap41 is brainwashed and doesnt believe Boeing CEOs and engineers could NOT possibly know they did something wrong to kill hundreds of people...

 

 

 

[balthazar]

I did a job in a Section 8 condo last year and the occupant had a big flat screen TV hanging off the wall (circa 55").

There was once upon a time where the American economy thrived by having Americans be SMART about their finances and NOT be consuming voraciously...

Careful, you might talk me into getting another flip phone! ;)
But you are very much correct on this.

[Drew Dowdell]

@balthazar what phone did you end up getting?

[G. David Felt]

40 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Havent most if not all Americans of a certain wealth have bought big screen TVs?

I mean, how many big flat TVs does an American household need to own?

But, but, but it is not about how many but about the clarity, 1080HD was the rage, now 4K and they just released the new 8K TV's. 

Ya gotta have the latest,  after all the new Avatar movies are in production, first one out this coming December and they all are being filmed in 8K. So they will dumb it down for 4K viewing and 1080 viewing, but 8K is better than 4K which is better than 1080HD.

Ya know the Jones / Jones race of stupidity!  

After all we have to see every hair follicle and they say Porn is the ultimate real life like on those TVs.

Course would not know since I am in poor-ville with a lowly 1080 DLP TV, not even a LCD or flat panel.  

[balthazar]

26 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

@balthazar what phone did you end up getting?

Nuttin' yet- sometime in the next 2 months I expect.

[oldshurst442]

53 minutes ago, dfelt said:

But, but, but it is not about how many but about the clarity, 1080HD was the rage, now 4K and they just released the new 8K TV's. 

Ya gotta have the latest,  after all the new Avatar movies are in production, first one out this coming December and they all are being filmed in 8K. So they will dumb it down for 4K viewing and 1080 viewing, but 8K is better than 4K which is better than 1080HD.

Ya know the Jones / Jones race of stupidity!  

After all we have to see every hair follicle and they say Porn is the ultimate real life like on those TVs.

Course would not know since I am in poor-ville with a lowly 1080 DLP TV, not even a LCD or flat panel.  

I had this Sony 40XBR700

 

HDTV. Bought it 5000 dollars CDN when Plasmas of the time cost 10 000. 

Still a ton of money for nothing. The TV didnt even last me a decade. It was a fantastic TV.  Nothing compared to a 1080P or a 4K, OLED or whatever there is today, but was very comparable to a 1080i.  But 5000 motherphoquing dollars that did not last me a decade.

It broke a little less than a year before my mom passed away. Then I inherited my moms Sony  50 inch 1080P  that she bought for 1000 dollars 3 or 4 years before she passed away.  

I made my parents by a SONY 32 inch HD tv in the late 1990s and THAT TV did not last my parents a decade and hence why my mom bought that 50 incher....which I now use. Low and behold, that 50 inch Sony is holding up OK and its nearing that 10 year mark...

 

Anyway...just to say that I am never ever again buying a mega expensive television set. 

Ive learned my lesson for keeping up with the Joneses and having the latest toy...

NOT important. Money inn the bank is much more important.

I would LOVE to own a 65 inch  QLED TV, but no way in hell am I gonna buy something that exopensive ever again. I got the money to do so...but I am not a fool no more to part with my money! 

28 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Nuttin' yet- sometime in the next 2 months I expect.

I read soemthing like 2 weeks ago or so that maybe you are thinking about getting a smart phone?

You may find a smart phone useful in your everyday life.

They are that good and multi-purpose.

They are NOT a waste of money...IF you have a need for one. 

Business...to have access to the internet and to use the internet and top communicate and to upload files and to use not only as a phone, but as a pocket computer...

But...if you dont need one...an old school flip phone still can do the job...

I question MANY people today, in 2019, that own smart phones if they really truly need to be connected to the net 24/7 365...even if we are....in 2019...

Edited April 8, 2019 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

'56-57 Corvette. Note right-hand drive. Not a flipped image: 'ICE' is correct in background, and fuel filler is on correct left side. Not sure if this was a factory built export or what, but interesting all the same.

[daves87rs]

On 4/8/2019 at 5:07 PM, balthazar said:

• Don't feed the Psychological Bears.
• People should save more, esp those who believe a recession is rumbling down the 'pike.

Lesser refunds is a GOOD thing (and on other counts, too). OK; so Big Flat TV sales don't spike; it'll all work out in the end.

Totally agree with the saving part. We have struggled to save over the last so many years or so, until I picked up a much better job the previously (and even then still swinging a second job) It’s even the reason I held out for a while for a new car- hanging with the 10 year + cars we have until we were able to get a good savings build=t up to where we wanted.

Only then did  my 19 Nox finally end up in the picture late last year. And and with a questionable future economy- good chance the wife’s ride. Will be something CPO. (Maybe even a fire sale Cruze)

And Balance is a good thing. ? 

On 4/8/2019 at 6:16 PM, dfelt said:

But, but, but it is not about how many but about the clarity, 1080HD was the rage, now 4K and they just released the new 8K TV's. 

Ya gotta have the latest,  after all the new Avatar movies are in production, first one out this coming December and they all are being filmed in 8K. So they will dumb it down for 4K viewing and 1080 viewing, but 8K is better than 4K which is better than 1080HD.

Ya know the Jones / Jones race of stupidity!  

After all we have to see every hair follicle and they say Porn is the ultimate real life like on those TVs.

Course would not know since I am in poor-ville with a lowly 1080 DLP TV, not even a LCD or flat panel.  

 

I miss my DLP...it was a great TV!!

[balthazar]

[balthazar]

[Drew Dowdell]

Congrats to @ccap41 for getting engaged!  Not that she would have said no.

[G. David Felt]

Just now, Drew Dowdell said:

Congrats to @ccap41 for getting engaged!  Not that she would have said no.

REALLY? Where is the announcement @ccap41 ?????

Congratulations man, that is Awesome, so very cool! ?

[Drew Dowdell]

On 4/8/2019 at 10:14 PM, balthazar said:

'56-57 Corvette. Note right-hand drive. Not a flipped image: 'ICE' is correct in background, and fuel filler is on correct left side. Not sure if this was a factory built export or what, but interesting all the same.

Aussie market?

[balthazar]

^ There were a number of export Corvettes built, including RHD conversions, to a whole bunch of countries in the C1 & C2 era.
- - - - -
Stunning interior : '60 Electra 225 ~

[balthazar]

[balthazar]

[balthazar]

^ In yer town, dfelt. Not a good story, tho.
- - - - -
Very unusual B-59 scenario- front cushion (uncompressed!) is only 9" off floor. '59 was last year of flat front floors in GM cars, for this reason. It's like sitting on a chaise lounge.

[G. David Felt]

18 hours ago, balthazar said:

 

6 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ In yer town, dfelt. Not a good story, tho.

So what is the full story? Cause here one of two things would happen. It would be fully restored and end up here: 

https://www.americascarmuseum.org

I spend plenty of hours every year enjoying this place ^^^^

Or one of the High Tech Peeps would take it, restore the outside but electrify it with a nice large Frunk!  

Around Seattle plenty of old 911 Porsches have been converted over to Electric like this example:

https://engineswapdepot.com/?p=13737

eWilly's are very popular here too:

http://www.ewillys.com/tag/electric-jeep/

 

[balthazar]

16 minutes ago, dfelt said:

So what is the full story?

Not worth going into. No idea on the fate of the Packard.
- - - - -
First shark fin antenna; '51 GM LeSabre  ~

[balthazar]

Full belly pan; '51 GM LeSabre ~

[daves87rs]

12 hours ago, balthazar said:

Full belly pan; '51 GM LeSabre ~

 

Wouldn’t’t the only downside to that being that salt would get into it?

[balthazar]

Road salt hadn't been invented yet in 1951. ;)
- - - - -

[daves87rs]

13 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Road salt hadn't been invented yet in 1951.
- - - - -

Sexy!!

[balthazar]

Edited April 15, 2019 by balthazar

[daves87rs]

So, an interesting rumor I hear...

 

Found out GM trademarked the name "Cavalier" again.....though this time it also includes the US.

Knowing that the both the Sonic and Spark get the ax in the very near future- makes me wonder if the Cavalier is coming back as a simple sedan (like the Versa) and replace the Cruze, Sonic, and the Spark.

I know Nissan is going to chase the youth market with affordable tech and style- maybe GM could be thinking the same?

(and yes, bring that same one they use in china and elseware....