Random Thoughts Thread

[ccap41]

10 minutes ago, Scout said:

This would be nice but I don't think it will ever happen. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/no-speed-limits-california-considering-faster-lanes-on-two-highways/ar-BBTOU0y

Hmmmm interesting idea and I find it an ironic money source "Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund" while anything going 100mph is likely getting 50%. or worse, of their rated highway mileage. 

[Drew Dowdell]

3 minutes ago, trinacriabob said:

Sorry, but I found that a little humorous.  The West Coast can be sensory overload, too!

Wow, has anyone had the experience of giving back a rental car and then getting into their own decade old daily driver and feel like they're on "cloud nine?"  I recently turned in a rented Ford Focus with 36,000 miles on it that didn't ride well (alignment or balancing issues, at the very least) and that much talked about automatic transmission shudder was in evidence, like clockwork, at every 1 - 2 shift.  I was wondering if the transmission in the car would fail while in my tenure.  It didn't.  I sighed when I got out of it, got my belongings, and headed to board the plane.

I always rent "up" from what I currently own, so I'm usually the reverse. 

[Robert Hall]

The thing I always found with rental cars is the brakes seemed very grabby and everything seemed clean and new.  Working power windows was a nice feature.  Then I got back into my old Jeep and not so much.     But back then the rental cars were relatively new w/ low mileage (under 5k usually) and my old Jeep was much older and worn...  

I haven't driven a rental car in almost 2 years since moving to Ohio...the last rentals I drove were here in Cleveland in 2016-2017 from the airport on visits here when I was house shopping then after I closed on the house and was working on the move...IIRC, Ford Focus, VW Passat, Nissan Altima, Chevy Malibu, Ford Escape, Toyota Camry. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Robert Hall

[Scout]

27 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Hmmmm interesting idea and I find it an ironic money source "Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund" while anything going 100mph is likely getting 50%. or worse, of their rated highway mileage. 

Our A4 will happily Cruze along at 85 without any significant efficiency los. 

[ccap41]

6 minutes ago, Scout said:

Our A4 will happily Cruze along at 85 without any significant efficiency los. 

85 isn't 100..  wind resistance grows exponentially. 

[Scout]

1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

85 isn't 100..  wind resistance grows exponentially. 

Yeah, I know. But I've driven the proposed route 3 times in the last 5 months. It's about 300 miles of straight flat nothing. I regularly see people doing 100+ in that stretch of highway. I don't simply because I don't want the ticket that could come with going that fast. But it sure would be nice to take a significant chunk of time off of that Journey.  And with dedicated high-speed Lanes it would certainly be safer than what's happening there now.

 

At any rate, I don't think it will ever happen. Especially being California. It will likely never be more than just a proposal.

 

 

[ocnblu]

4 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

These things will be as soul-enriching as toasters. 

Typo fixed.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Very true, Washington, Oregon and California actually require in all new home construction that EV chargers are now installed in the Garage. New Apartment and Condo units have to include charging areas.

That's crazy if true. I can see running the wiring from the panel to the garage, straightforward, but the charger should not be mandated- forcing people to pay for an expensive item (you guys don't think because it's 'standard' it's free, do you?) that the vast vast majority of which won't be utilized anytime soon - smells like a back room scam. It's like requiring solar cells be put on every roof of new construction, even (like my house) if it's primarily in the shade, or if it's not hooked up. Run the wiring, leave the unit for those that require it.

[Drew Dowdell]

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

That's crazy if true. I can see running the wiring from the panel to the garage, straightforward, but the charger should not be mandated- forcing people to pay for an expensive item (you guys don't think because it's 'standard' it's free, do you?) that the vast vast majority of which won't be utilized anytime soon - smells like a back room scam. It's like requiring solar cells be put on every roof of new construction, even (like my house) if it's primarily in the shade, or if it's not hooked up. Run the wiring, leave the unit for those that require it.

I think it just has to be the wire and a dryer outlet. 

[oldshurst442]

25 minutes ago, balthazar said:

smells like a back room scam. It's like requiring solar cells be put on every roof of new construction, even (like my house) if it's primarily in the shade, or if it's not hooked up. Run the wiring, leave the unit for those that require it.

Yeah...

True all that you said...

But...like a washing machine...or the rough in a basement potential bathroom.

The plumbing for both could be part of the cost of the new house which sometimes is "standard" that comes with the house but if you dont want either a dishwasher or bathroom in your basement, you are forced to buy it or it could be an option, like some cases and if you change your mind 10 years later, costs a lot more to install.

And then once you buy a dishwasher, then that dishwasher becomes part of the house as a fixture and the owner selling the house cannot remove the dishwasher. The house is sold with the dishwasher...

We could cry all we want about these costs...it really is much ado about nothing...

Having an EV charging unit in your brand new home that you bought that you will personally will never use...well, it wont hurt you to have it there.

A house is a 200 000-1 000 000 plus dollar investment (if you take care of it)...I think its kinda whiny for anybody to complain about a 2000 dollar unit.  Mortgaged for 20-25 years. Peanuts...

And in the recent past, people opted for 30-40 year mortgages and to this day, continue to re-mortgage the mortgage pushing the total to 60-70-80 years to finally pay off the house because we over consume with non-essential items. 

I get that some of us HATE the word mandated because we Americans do NOT want ANYBODY, especially the government telling us what to do. 

But really, not a big deal. Besides, 3D printers are gonna be a thing even before EVs will be a thing. Really really BIG 3D printers may also be a thing. And maybe those really really big 3D printers will require those washing machine/EV charging unit plugs...in other words, it wont do any harm to have them installed, only brings up the value of your home in the long run. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by oldshurst442

[ocnblu]

 

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Typo fixed.

You dont like toast?

You mean, you dont make any at home?

Or  you use a blowtorch to  roast bread because you live the life of an adventurer? 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

The thing I always found with rental cars is the brakes seemed very grabby and everything seemed clean and new.  Working power windows was a nice feature.  Then I got back into my old Jeep and not so much.     But back then the rental cars were relatively new w/ low mileage (under 5k usually) and my old Jeep was much older and worn...  

I haven't driven a rental car in almost 2 years since moving to Ohio...the last rentals I drove were here in Cleveland in 2016-2017 from the airport on visits here when I was house shopping then after I closed on the house and was working on the move...IIRC, Ford Focus, VW Passat, Nissan Altima, Chevy Malibu, Ford Escape, Toyota Camry. 

I have had a bun ch of Chrysler Minivans and Pacificas lately.  Been very fond of them.

And m,ore eye candy....I could so rock this truck.

 

 

 

Link won't upload but worth a watch.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Drew Dowdell
Fixed that for ya

[trinacriabob]

2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I always rent "up" from what I currently own, so I'm usually the reverse. 

I had opted for a mid size.  I like to get a full size when the rates are clustered closely together.  As it turns out, they were really, really low on cars.  I could have gotten a Jetta.  The state it was licensed to was "exotic" and far away, so I passed on it ... that way I could throw my stuff in the trunk and not think about it much.  I took the Focus because it was a known quantity, though not as bad as what this unit turned out to be like!

I should have taken the Jetta.  They've gotten larger and probably ride similarly to a Passat, which isn't all that bad.

[Robert Hall]

Oddly, of the 6 cars I rented in Cleveland in '16-17, 4 of them had out of state plates...Florida, New York, Tennessee and PA IIRC..

[oldshurst442]

This summer we are thinking about travelling down to the States for some vacation time.

Hit some American beaches...on the East Coast.  I dont think Ill have the time to drive all the way down to Florida (I do want to drive, so my kids get to see some American paysage. (scenery)

South Carolina and Mytle Beach?  My other neighbor, to the right of me(the neighbor to the left has the Tesla Model 3), he goes to Myrtle Beach every year.  

Maybe too far south still...

Virginia Beach? Wildwood New Jersey?

My best friend has gone to Ocean City Maryland twice and he recommends we go there.   There is Massachusetts with Cape Cod or Martha's Vineyards or the Hamptons but we've been to Boston before to see my cousin and my daughter has a school trip there just before school finishes and the beaches that north arent exactly...well, Im used to Greek beaches...

Further south and the beaches look awesome. Out west even better...

Anyway, the point to this long winded story is about car rentals...yes car rentals...I might as well continue the car rental talk.

We sometimes take our own vehicles for family trips and sometimes we rent. Depending on my moods. This time Im thinking about renting. And this time, since today's fullsized cars are midsizers of yore, me thinks Im going to go with an SUV. 

There...my story is finished. 

 

[G. David Felt]

@balthazar @Drew Dowdell

Laws are an exact copy of California and Oregon also has the same ones on the books. I have not included all of them as hunting down the exact specific places is numerous, but all the new homes built in my neighborhood on the old elementary school yard have 220 chargers in the garage. Since it is small change in the monthly payment of a house, these $600K to $850K dollar homes are advertised as EV ready.

WAC 51-50-0427

Section 427—Electric vehicle charging infrastructure.

427.1 Scope. The provisions of this section shall apply to the construction of new buildings serving Group B, Group R-1 hotel and motel only, and Group R-2 occupancies.

427.2 Required electric vehicle charging infrastructure. Where parking is provided, five percent of parking spaces shall be provided with electric vehicle charging infrastructure in compliance with Sections 427.3, 427.4 and 427.5. When the calculation of percent served results in a fractional parking space, the applicant shall round up to the next whole number.

EXCEPTION:

Group R and Group B occupancies served by less than 20 on-site parking spaces.

427.3 Electrical room(s). Electrical room(s) serving parking areas shall be designed to accommodate the electrical equipment and distribution required to serve a minimum of 20 percent of the total parking spaces with 208/240 V 40-amp electric vehicle charging infrastructure.

427.4 Electric vehicle charging infrastructure. Electric vehicle charging infrastructure shall be installed meeting one of the following requirements:

1. A minimum number of 208/240 V 40-amp, electric vehicle charging stations required to serve the parking spaces specified in section 427.2. The electric vehicle charging stations shall be located to serve spaces designated for parking and charging electric vehicles, or

2. Additional service capacity, space for future meters, panel capacity or space for additional panels, and raceways for future installation of electric vehicle charging stations. The service capacity and raceway size shall be designed to accommodate the future installation of the number of 208/240 V 40-amp, electric vehicle charging stations specified in section 427.2. The raceway shall terminate at spaces designated for parking and charging electric vehicles in the future.

Where designated electric vehicle charging locations serve exterior on-grade parking spaces that are located more than 4 feet from a building, raceways shall be extended below grade to a pull box in the vicinity of the designated future electric vehicle charging locations or stub above grade in the vicinity of the designated future electric vehicle charging locations, protected from vehicles by a curb or other device.

EXCEPTION:

In lieu of surface-mounted raceway between the electrical panel and the designated electric vehicle charging locations, it is permitted to provide permanent markings indicating the pathway for future raceway, and one-inch diameter capped sleeves through each wall and floor assembly that are penetrated along that route. This pathway and the locations of capped sleeves shall also be indicated on the electrical plans. Raceway shall be installed for any portion of the pathway located below slabs, below grade, or within floor, wall or roof assemblies.

427.5 Electric vehicle charging infrastructure for accessible parking spaces. When electric vehicle charging infrastructure is required, one accessible parking space shall be served by electric vehicle charging infrastructure. The electric vehicle charging infrastructure may also serve adjacent parking spaces not designated as accessible parking.

[Statutory Authority: RCW 19.27.031 and 19.27.074. WSR 16-03-064, § 51-50-0427, filed 1/19/16, effective 7/1/16.]

 

We also have the approved Washington state electric vehicle action plan that covers 2015 to 2020.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/28559EF4-CD9D-4CFA-9886-105A30FD58C4/0/WAEVActionPlan2014.pdf

 

Page 32 & 33 cover having homes to businesses, all new constructions is EV charger ready. So circuit breaker to wiring.

 

This was from our state wide building code updates and took effect in 2015: https://des.wa.gov/about/news-media-center/washington-state-building-code-council-updates-state-codes

 

QUOTE: 

• Electric vehicle charging stations: New apartment, office and hotel buildings that have parking lots will be required to put infrastructure in place that supports electric vehicle charging stations.
• 

Local PSE or Puget Sound Energy our state supplier of electricity has a web site dedicated to the EV home charging: https://www.pse.com/pages/electric-cars

 

6 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

We sometimes take our own vehicles for family trips and sometimes we rent. Depending on my moods. This time Im thinking about renting. And this time, since today's fullsized cars are midsizers of yore, me thinks Im going to go with an SUV. 

There...my story is finished. 

 

I say go for the suburban size SUV.  

[oldshurst442]

6 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I say go for the suburban size SUV.  

I was thinking the same thing!!!  Well, maybe not the Suburban, but a Tahoe/Yukon. 

Gas is cheap in your land. 

The Suburban might be overkill, but then again, its AMERICA! Overkill is the ONLY way!!! 

 

[Robert Hall]

I'd definitely go for a full size SUV for a road trip w/ kiddos.   I used to rent Tahoes and Yukons for long weekends and drive from Phoenix to LA or San Diego and back.. great road trip vehicles...

[ykX]

34 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

This summer we are thinking about travelling down to the States for some vacation time.

Hit some American beaches...on the East Coast.  I dont think Ill have the time to drive all the way down to Florida (I do want to drive, so my kids get to see some American paysage. (scenery)

South Carolina and Mytle Beach?  My other neighbor, to the right of me(the neighbor to the left has the Tesla Model 3), he goes to Myrtle Beach every year.  

Maybe too far south still...

Virginia Beach? Wildwood New Jersey?

My best friend has gone to Ocean City Maryland twice and he recommends we go there.   There is Massachusetts with Cape Cod or Martha's Vineyards or the Hamptons but we've been to Boston before to see my cousin and my daughter has a school trip there just before school finishes and the beaches that north arent exactly...well, Im used to Greek beaches...

Further south and the beaches look awesome. Out west even better...

Anyway, the point to this long winded story is about car rentals...yes car rentals...I might as well continue the car rental talk.

We sometimes take our own vehicles for family trips and sometimes we rent. Depending on my moods. This time Im thinking about renting. And this time, since today's fullsized cars are midsizers of yore, me thinks Im going to go with an SUV. 

There...my story is finished. 

 

Cape May, NJ is really nice

Heard good things about about Ocean City, Maryland

My co-worker was in the South Carolina, he liked it too

If you decide to go all the way to Florida, I highly recommend Siesta Key.  However, Florida in the summer might be too hot and too humid.

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by ykX

[oldshurst442]

23 minutes ago, ykX said:

Cape May, NJ is really nice

Heard good things about about Ocean City, Maryland

My co-worker was in the South Carolina, he liked it too

If you decide to go all the way to Florida, I highly recommend Siesta Key.  However, Florida in the summer might be too hot and too humid.

 

I had a nice long response written for you...but *sigh* I pressed on something and all my tabs disappeared including the CheersandGears website and when I clicked back on the website to get to your post to respond to it, well, the site did not save the response!!!  ?

All to say thank-you for your input and Ill look into Cape May, NJ.

Florida will be visited another year. 

We may go with my neighbor to South Carolina together, but probably not. Ocean City with my best friend and his family looks like the winning possibility. Or by ourselves.   

But I will look into Cape May and suggest that to my friend. 

Now, all you get is this cheap, watered down response. ?

 

[G. David Felt]

50 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

I was thinking the same thing!!!  Well, maybe not the Suburban, but a Tahoe/Yukon. 

Gas is cheap in your land. 

The Suburban might be overkill, but then again, its AMERICA! Overkill is the ONLY way!!! 

 

Ya Need to do a road trip to Seattle. Easy 18hr drive. Go through some lovely areas like Glacier National park in Montana, Wine Country around Lake Chelan in Eastern Washington and the Greater Puget sound area.

Makes the trip so easy in a full size SUV.

[balthazar]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

...years to finally pay off the house because we over consume with non-essential items.

That's exactly what I was talking about.
- - - - -

[oldshurst442]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

Ya Need to do a road trip to Seattle. Easy 18hr drive. Go through some lovely areas like Glacier National park in Montana, Wine Country around Lake Chelan in Eastern Washington and the Greater Puget sound area.

Makes the trip so easy in a full size SUV.

yes! exactly!

Part of that post that was ghosted was explaining how I prefer to drive on family trips and not take a plane if I dont have to cross any large amounts of water, like the Atlantic because scenery is what I want to take in. Stop and see interesting places. Take the time to take it all in.

Florida is too far for the available vacation time I may have this summer. My partner and our employees need to go on vacation too. I cant hog up all the summer weeks...

And yes...a full size SUV is the way to go. THAT is another reason why I love American land yachts.  Those cars gobbled up the miles in comfort. I guess the new Roadmasters and Delta 88s and Bel Airs and Bonnevilles and Chrysler New Yorkers are the Durangos and Expeditions and 'Gators and the GM quintuplets (Caddy versions of the Tahoe and 'Burban) 

But yeah. Slowly but surely, I will visit the USA. There is sooooo much I wanna see.  I could forego Las Vegas. But the Grand Canyon is a must! I could forego the Bible Belt, but within the Bible Belt, there are quite a few areas of interest. 

Then there is Europe....

 

[G. David Felt]

2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

yes! exactly!

Part of that post that was ghosted was explaining how I prefer to drive on family trips and not take a plane if I dont have to cross any large amounts of water, like the Atlantic because scenery is what I want to take in. Stop and see interesting places. Take the time to take it all in.

Florida is too far for the available vacation time I may have this summer. My partner and our employees need to go on vacation too. I cant hog up all the summer weeks...

And yes...a full size SUV is the way to go. THAT is another reason why I love American land yachts.  Those cars gobbled up the miles in comfort. I guess the new Roadmasters and Delta 88s and Bel Airs and Bonnevilles and Chrysler New Yorkers are the Durangos and Expeditions and 'Gators and the GM quintuplets (Caddy versions of the Tahoe and 'Burban) 

But yeah. Slowly but surely, I will visit the USA. There is sooooo much I wanna see.  I could forego Las Vegas. But the Grand Canyon is a must! I could forego the Bible Belt, but within the Bible Belt, there are quite a few areas of interest. 

Then there is Europe....

We think alike, I would rather drive and see the country than fly unless large bodies of water to cross. Cruising is nice but unless you have a number of islands to at least visit every other day, seeing the same Beluga whales on the ship attempting to get brown when all they do is turn lobster red is boring. I am not a shopper or gambler, so like you, skip Vegas and see the grand canyon and all the cool stuff to do there.

Since the skywalk opened, I want to return to visit and see what it is like to be so far up in the air and look straight down.

Should be very freaky cool with the floor of the Grand Canyon at 1,160 feet and the Skywalk is at 4,770 feet. Should make for some crazy high views looking down. I am sure my wife and mother would have a hard time walking it if at all as they are afraid of heights or what science calls Acrophobia.

[Robert Hall]

I should have visited the Skywalk before I left AZ...completely forgot about it..the last year I was there I was too busy planning my escape.    Maybe in 10 years I'll take a vacay out there and see more of the Southwest.. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Robert Hall

[oldshurst442]

26 minutes ago, balthazar said:

That's exactly what I was talking about.
- - - - -

But...why is it that we complain for EV chargers being non-essential and not for dishwashing machines?

Dare I even suggest A/C units being non-essential?  Even for areas like Arizona? Maybe Im pushing it for A/C units in Arizona, but in areas like Quebec, Ontario, New York, Massachusetts, Washington, Maryland, Oregon, Illinois,  etc...TOTALLY NON-ESSENTIAL!!! 

Why must we solely focus on EV charging units? 

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

•• SIGH ••
If you move into a house with a dishwasher, ASSUREDLY you own dishes and are VERY likely to use said dishwasher. Same for A/C - ASSUREDLY, as a human, you feel heat. At some point even the most thrifty break down, when it's 99 with 80% humidity. In both scenarios they have a functional use.

With EVs being a scant 2% of the market, 98% of all homeowners have NO USE for an EV charger. Why force them to pay for it?

And the idea that the cost is 'lost' in the overall cost of the house is exactly how the medical bill scenario in America has gotten where it is; who'll notice a single aspirin tablet was $19 when the total bill was $90,000?? It's just wrong (on both counts). It's fleecing, but politicians will push for it to 'look concerned'. Meanwhile, a fat, overpriced contract will go to cronies in the industry, who'll kickback to the politician. The homeowner, as usual, gets screwed.

Edited February 20, 2019 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

32 minutes ago, balthazar said:

•• SIGH ••
If you move into a house with a dishwasher, ASSUREDLY you own dishes and are VERY likely to use said dishwasher. Same for A/C - at some point even the most thrifty break down, when it's 99 with 80% humidity. In both scenarios they have a functional use.

With EVs being a scant 2% of the market, 98% of all homeowners have NO USE for an EV charger. Why force them to pay for it?

And the idea that the cost is 'lost' in the overall cost of the house is exactly how the medical bill scenario in America has gotten where it is; who'll notice a single aspirin tablet was $19 when the total bill was $90,000?? It's just wrong (on both counts).

We all have hands. We could wash our dishes the old fashioned way. And household dishwashers are not the industrial, hotellerie (restaurant and hotel business)dishwashers that wash dishes at super high temps in like 2 minutes. Household dishwashers take 1/2 the day to do the job. Washing by hand takes 5,10 minutes for a regular family of 4...

EVs...WILL be the future whether you like it or not...

Like I said last week or so. Everybody in the car biz and the governments are leading us up to this. 

THIS is just another way to facilitate the transition. 

A building (house or industrial) is supposed to last us past 100 years, right?  Let us not put a number on it but buildings are more or less for the very long term. Even the stadium that Ruth built, lasted 85 years only to be DECLARED "obsolete"...but still...85 years. Fenway is still open more than 100 years.  Some homes in the US are 150 year old homes and STILL people are living in them. In Europe, older than that still...

Therefore, if EVs are the way to the future, then home EV charging is gonna be an integral part of our way of life going forward. 

5 years ago, USB charging ports were not even dreamt up anywhere. 

Today, if one buys a  new home...this is an option to them

 

I wish when I bought my home 10 years ago, I had that option...but I dont. I have to fork over 14.99 or so per outlet plus all the electrical crap to install it...after the fact...

Point being, EVs are our future, if the electricals are part of the system going forward now, the transition will be that much easier 10-20-30 years down the road. We got to plan ahead...and we have already planned our future with the automobile, and the automobile will cease to run on gasoline at some point...

My house, if I decide to sell it 30 years from now, I will be 76, alive and kicking I hope...well, my house wont be ready for the EV future even YOU say might be a thing...30 years from now...because I dont have an EV charging port...

But a house being built in two years from now, and it will have a mandatory EV charging port, the dudes that buy that house, WILL be EV ready...

My house, when Ill be a 76 year old geezer, if Ill refuse to do the necessary renovations, well, even if EVs will not be the main propulsion cars on our roads, there will be a lot, Ill be limiting myself to potential buyers...

Like I said, it wont hurt to have EV charging units in your home. It WILL be a plus, not a negative...

Just like having A/C unit installed even in Quebec...its a plus. 

EVs in Quebec are becoming a tour de force. In Quebec at least, owning a home charger unit now is a plus...

 

One question...

If you installed an EV charging unit in your home, does it become part of the home like a dishwasher and the owner wont be able to take it with him? 

But at least the wiring and outlets will already be there!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

@balthazar To quote our resident EV hater Blu, you do realize that the argument is a slippery slop that can be applied to Electricity, door locks, water lines in the house, etc.

At one time we all started out with only a wood roof and walls around us and then as others added windows, indoor plumbing and electricity, everyone else wanted it too.

Might be 2% now but especially in areas, AKA West Coast so many more have it that a number of folks moving into the area for jobs are also looking for homes that are EV/PHEV plug-in ready.

So a $500 220 charger in the Garage and a $500 dishwasher in the kitchen. Not everyone will use either one or both  some might ignor both all together so then why have the dishwasher in the house?

At this point I get what you are saying in an area with low use and not much support or stated requirement from the GOV, why have it. Yet in areas that have large EV / PHEV Plug-in ownership, it makes sense to have it and require it.

[G. David Felt]

12 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

One question...

If you installed an EV charging unit in your home, does it become part of the home like a dishwasher and the owner wont be able to take it with him? 

But at least the wiring and outlets will already be there!!! 

USB Outlets, at least here in Washington, you can now get a 10 pack of the above for $100 dollars, flip the circuit breaker and replace them all where ever you want in the house. Here a Phillips screwdriver and 5-10 minutes per outlet to convert. My 1952 house has them all throughout. 

In 1999 when I bought it and gutted the house to the studs, I also put in plenum tubing so every room has gigabit hard wired network access. Faster than WiFi. Planned for the future. 

My garage has 220V 30AMP so I just have to get a Charger unit with the 220V twist lock to plug in and yes I can take it with me or you can have it hard wired. Your choice at least here in Washington State.

Tesla now offers their home charger with the Twist lock plug so you can take your charger with you where ever you move. That has become one of the standards, so as long as you have the required 220V 30AMP outlet, you are EV ready.

[oldshurst442]

12 minutes ago, dfelt said:

USB Outlets, at least here in Washington, you can now get a 10 pack of the above for $100 dollars, flip the circuit breaker and replace them all where ever you want in the house. Here a Phillips screwdriver and 5-10 minutes per outlet to convert. My 1952 house has them all throughout. 

In 1999 when I bought it and gutted the house to the studs, I also put in plenum tubing so every room has gigabit hard wired network access. Faster than WiFi. Planned for the future. 

My garage has 220V 30AMP so I just have to get a Charger unit with the 220V twist lock to plug in and yes I can take it with me or you can have it hard wired. Your choice at least here in Washington State.

Tesla now offers their home charger with the Twist lock plug so you can take your charger with you where ever you move. That has become one of the standards, so as long as you have the required 220V 30AMP outlet, you are EV ready.

Yeah...USB outlets shoudlnt be that expensive, I tried to make the story (true story though) dramatic to prove a point. I wish I had the hindsight to do all that you do 10 years ago and let the home contractor do it for me. Plenum tubing and USB outlets and really, computer friendly home ready for the internet and blutooth and whatnot. Not quite full out smart and connected home, but computer friendly at the minimum. My house is a new house, but its an "old school" house.  Other than it being a super insulated home with air exchangers and the like, its still "old" tech in regards to the computer reality world we live in. I see the options that are out today with that such as computer controlled lighting where I could choose from a single panel what lights could go on and off and and what times and the like and Im jealous. 

Sure...old school gadgets still exist for that, but its like recording TV programs with an old VCR versus modern DVRs...and sure I could buy the hardware to do it myself....but I have top do it myself...

Good to know that you have the option to install a charger that you could uninstall. I imagine a Tesla owner would prefer to take his Tesla supercharger  rather than leave his at the old home and go into a new home with a generic ho-hum charger... 

Exactly though, as long as the home has the required 220V 30AMP outlet already there. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

• Certain house features ARE mandated. You cannot build new construction withOUT water, or septic/sewer, or electricity. Not if you want to build it legally.
• A dishwasher does NOT have to stay with a house. I've installed a dishwasher where one USED to be- that space had been converted to a cabinet. And that house was an occupied rental- so it had been inspected prior to it being rented. Dishwashers are not code-required.
• A dishwasher doesn't have to be used, BUT IT CAN IF YOU WISH.
• An EV charger CANNOT be used, even if you wish, on an internal combustion vehicle. If you paid for an EV charger you cannot use, you've wasted your money. It's like putting your solar panels in the attic (maybe down the road, you can have a bank of skylights installed).

If you think a EV residential charger should be mandatory, then just advocate for mandatory EV vehicles / an immediate ban and confiscation of all IC vehicles. There's only 300 million to round up, should only take a week.

I've stated it before; I have no issue with EV vehicles, despite they're not being viable for me. Some of the products are still interesting to me, conceptually & functionally. But the widespread refusal to look at the timeline of things is borderline delusionary.

I'll offer a compromise; draft a new construction requirement to install EV chargers in every new home when EVs reach 50% of the market.

[Drew Dowdell]

@balthazar there are still PHEVs, and they're about to get a lot more common

[oldshurst442]

Dishwashers ARE required to stay with the home in Quebec.

Dishwashers ARE coded in that the installations ARE required to meet certain water flooding prevention methods...

Who says that 220V/30AMP outlets for EV chargers could not be used EVEN IF the owner of a house does NOT own an EV.  As a society, we are dependent more and more on electricity  than we are on gasoline...

3D printers...no, not the little ones. But the bigger ones may use 220V. And those will be part of our future too. Or some other high voltage necessity going forward into our future...

Even if you dont own an EV but have a charger outlet installed or even a charging unit...it does NOT cost you more to have it in your house...only the 2000 or less dollars it initially costs you...and as we are going into our future, EVs are it...

And in the grand scheme of things...2000 dollars or less is NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL. Its just there. 

Like I said. I have bought a house where the rough for the basement bathroom was an option for me to have made. I paid for that option. My basement is finished yet the bathroom in the basement is just a storage room. The rough is there for the next future owner for him to make a bathroom if he chooses.  It an easier sell. And an easier job for me or future owner(if any) to make a bathroom.

I paid for something that I will NEVER use...and it cost me around that mythical 2000  dollars we keep on mentioning. Well...like I said...much ado about nothing...

Installing wiring and the like, after the fact becomes a hassle.  So why even fight it?  EVs are at 2%. And will grow...its part of the grand design anyway... 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

• OK to the Quebec requirement- not the case in NJ. I can understand flooding prevention being required if a dishwasher IS installed (drain pan/drain line, I assume?), but are dishwashers a code requirement to be installed? Weird, if yes.
• A 220V OUTLET is fine; I did say 'run the wire' above. That's a 'rough in' and truly relatively 'cheap'. My objection is being forced to buy a $2000 charging unit if I can't use said unit.
• If $2000 is such a no big deal, I'll give you my PayPal addy and promise I'll put every dime of the $2000 you send me into the Buick! You won't be able to USE my Buick, but who cares, right? :D

20 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

@balthazar there are still PHEVs, and they're about to get a lot more common

Ummm- define "a lot" if you care to take a stab. And are we merely talking about offerings... or actual sales?

Edited February 21, 2019 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

20 minutes ago, balthazar said:

• OK to the Quebec requirement- not the case in NJ. I can understand flooding prevention being required if a dishwasher IS installed (drain pan/drain line, I assume?), but are dishwashers a code requirement to be installed? Weird, if yes.
• A 220V OUTLET is fine; I did say 'run the wire' above. That's a 'rough in' and truly relatively 'cheap'. My objection is being forced to buy a $2000 charging unit if I can't use said unit.
• If $2000 is such a no big deal, I'll give you my PayPal addy and promise I'll put every dime of the $2000 you send me into the Buick! You won't be able to USE my Buick, but who cares, right?

Ummm- define "a lot" if you care to take a stab. And are we merely talking about offerings... or actual sales?

Yes..drain pan/drain line...and that is the only requirement. No electrical code. Plumbing code.  Code none-the-less. Liabilty, insurance...

Fine if its in a single home dwelling.  No biggie other than if not installed properly, insurance wont pay you for YOUR damages. But if you install improperly in a multi-complex unit, not only will your insurance not cover your losses, but you are gonna be liable for every home that you flooded and caused damage. Pretty expensive for a lowly dishwasher...and THAT is why I made the connection for a dishwasher...

Well...there is a difference.  That the EV charging unit would be on MY territory.

I could give you the 2000  dollars for your Buick. But..you'de have to ship the Buick to me. I wont be using it, but it be on MY territory.  ?

In this case, the Buick would be in my way as I have a single garage but place for 4 cars in my drive-way, as opposed to a smallish charging unit, but hey...this is a discussion I wont back down on  either... so Ill live with the Buick in my driveway. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

Washington state Dishwashers are CODE. They have to have a proper hard line for the drain and hard wired to a resettable circuit breaker box under the sink. So here you have to buy the dishwasher even if you do not want to use it as code for the house building in Washington is there has to be one, hard plumbed and hard wired in.

I am fine with the Hard wired 220V 30amp circuit plug in the garage as it can be used by more than just an EV charger unit. I know many folks have hobbies and if your into wood working or metal work, many large equipment machines will use that outlet.

Growing up I have always had 220V 30 amp twist lock outlets in the garage. Makes it easy to plug in the Line fed welder. ?

[balthazar]

My MIG is 110 - my whole shop is 50 amp / 110V. Only time I tripped a breaker is when I plugged in a 50+ yr old pedestal fan with a shorting motor.

Olds, I'm not surprised you'd want the Buick there- you seem to like paying for things you can't use! ;)

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

My MIG is 110 - my whole shop is 50 amp / 110V. Only time I tripped a breaker is when I plugged in a 50+ yr old pedestal fan with a shorting motor.

Olds, I'm not surprised you'd want the Buick there- you seem to like paying for things you can't use!

That is interesting, never seen a 110 mig before, cool. Glad you can run it on all local 100 power. It could be that my machine and how I grew up was due to my dad being in the commercial side of refrigeration and as such he always would buy the tools from his supplier that they bought for the shop in Seattle. As such, he had 220 / 30 amp twist locks installed in our garage and I have always had them too. What I grew up used to using.

[balthazar]

All the major welder OEMs have a few 110 machines. Eastwood catalog on hand is showing 3 MIG welders; (1) 120, (1) 240 and (1) 120 OR 240. Their TIG's show (2) 110-220 and (1) 220-240. Mine's a Lincoln.

I would have to believe there's thicker metal on old vehicles than refrigerator units, but who knows (I have some experience around a dozen different commercial fridge/freezer units). The way mine is currently set up, it'll do 12 ga (.105"), but if using different consumables, it will do 5/16". '50s-60s auto sheet metal is either 16 or 14 ga.
- - - - -
Early clay for the XP-8 '51 LeSabre, note it wore a Chevy truck steering wheel during mock-up.

Edited February 21, 2019 by balthazar

[ocnblu]

"La Rue", interesting.

[ykX]

15 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

I had a nice long response written for you...but *sigh* I pressed on something and all my tabs disappeared including the CheersandGears website and when I clicked back on the website to get to your post to respond to it, well, the site did not save the response!!!  ?

All to say thank-you for your input and Ill look into Cape May, NJ.

Florida will be visited another year. 

We may go with my neighbor to South Carolina together, but probably not. Ocean City with my best friend and his family looks like the winning possibility. Or by ourselves.   

But I will look into Cape May and suggest that to my friend. 

Now, all you get is this cheap, watered down response. ?

 

FYI, Wildwood, NJ is 15 minutes away from Cape May and cheaper to stay than Cape May.  That is what we did few times, stayed in WIldwood and spent few days in Cape May.

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

"La Rue", interesting.

Must've been the photog before Madler.
- - - - -
442 - how old are your kids?
We used to go to Wildwood every summer when my sons were growing up, and we'd day-trip to Cape May. The WIldwoods have amusement piers and are a lot more kid-oriented. We had good times there, I miss going.

[ccap41]

14 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Dishwashers ARE required to stay with the home in Quebec.

Dishwashers are MANDATORY? That seems really odd to me. 

[oldshurst442]

40 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Dishwashers are MANDATORY? That seems really odd to me. 

Yeah...

Part of the house when installed. Dishwashers are considered fixtures because they are hard to install, requiring plumbing codes to be respected so once installed, they become part of the house like the other plumbing fixtures in a house such as toilets and bathtubs. 

Not that dishwashers are mandatory to be installed in a house in Quebec, but once installed, become a fixture in the house. Whether you want to use it or not..  So that would be the connection to the discussion.

I believe in Washington, if I understood correcty,  as @dfelt was explaining, dishwashers are mandatory...

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Must've been the photog before Madler.
- - - - -
442 - how old are your kids?
We used to go to Wildwood every summer when my sons were growing up, and we'd day-trip to Cape May. The WIldwoods have amusement piers and are a lot more kid-oriented. We had good times there, I miss going.

Daughter is going to be 13 in Sept. and my son is going to be 12 in June.

So...Wildwood and Cape May are close to each other...

And Wildwood was my personal choice to begin with. Ocean City in Maryland was a suggestion made by my best friend...?

Me thinks Im gonna be visiting your State Mr. Balthy...

 

PS: Ill be coming with a Tahoe and a Hitch. Ill have your 2000 dollars in cash ready for you, I expect the Buick to be ready for me...

Ill sign the proper legal forms that the Buick is not to be driven...

Edited February 21, 2019 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

Midsize Ford action, a Judge, and the red Mustang fastback...ohhh...yes....lots to like in this video.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Daughter is going to be 13 in Sept. and my son is going to be 12 in June.

So...Wildwood and Cape May are close to each other...

And Wildwood was my personal choice to begin with. Ocean City in Maryland was a suggestion made by my best friend...?

Me thinks Im gonna be visiting your State Mr. Balthy...

PS: Ill be coming with a Tahoe and a Hitch. Ill have your 2000 dollars in cash ready for you, I expect the Buick to be ready for me...

Ill sign the proper legal forms that the Buick is not to be driven...

Great ages to enjoy a family-orient beach vaca. If you do go, enjoy!
RE the Buick- there's no worries about signed forms agreeing not to drive it- it has no engine/trans. Or interior, or glass, or front clip. You get a rolling shell with front & rear suspension, but not the title. I'll take my $2K in crisp Franklins, please. And your charitable contribution is very likely not tax deductible...

Now... if you wish to PURCHASE the car, we're going to have to talk real numbers. Real big numbers... but you get the title and everything I have for it. We can talk.

- - - - -
This caption is erroneous, because smk told us it's impossible for a car to exceed 125 MPH unless it has overdrive. Plus, this car only has 368 HP; case closed!

Edited February 21, 2019 by balthazar

[G. David Felt]

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

All the major welder OEMs have a few 110 machines. Eastwood catalog on hand is showing 3 MIG welders; (1) 120, (1) 240 and (1) 120 OR 240. Their TIG's show (2) 110-220 and (1) 220-240. Mine's a Lincoln.

I would have to believe there's thicker metal on old vehicles than refrigerator units, but who knows (I have some experience around a dozen different commercial fridge/freezer units). The way mine is currently set up, it'll do 12 ga (.105"), but if using different consumables, it will do 5/16". '50s-60s auto sheet metal is either 16 or 14 ga.
- - - - -
Early clay for the XP-8 '51 LeSabre, note it wore a Chevy truck steering wheel during mock-up.

My dad was in the commercial side of the Refrigeration business. So Cold storage warehouses for the fruit farms in Eastern Washington to flash freezing units for the Alaska fishing fleet that births at Fisherman's terminal here in Seattle and canneries from Seattle to Dutch Harbor Alaska in the Aleutian Islands and processing ships all use heavy gauge steel and welding.

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

My dad was in the commercial side of the Refrigeration business. So Cold storage warehouses for the fruit farms in Eastern Washington to flash freezing units for the Alaska fishing fleet that births at Fisherman's terminal here in Seattle and canneries from Seattle to Dutch Harbor Alaska in the Aleutian Islands and processing ships all use heavy gauge steel and welding.

I did commercial refrigeration work also.