Random Thoughts Thread

[ykX]

11 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Vikings, Last Kingdom, Ozark, Sense8, Travelers, Originals, Chewing Gum... check 'em out

Peaky Blinders, Ripper Street

[Drew Dowdell]

11 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I'm a few months into truly cord cutting, no cable or satellite since leaving Az in June. So far, so good.  I have an Amazon Fire TV stick w/ Amazon, Hulu, Acorn, Netflix, Sling and network apps. About the only live TV I watch are NFL games and motorsports.  Stream a lot of tv shows, mostly British crime like Unforgotten, Broadchurch, Hinterland, Endeavour (excellent Inspector Morse prequel) etc.  For American, I've enjoyed catching up on Silicon Valley, Bosch and Better Call Saul.  

But are you actually saving any money by cord cutting and getting all of those subscriptions? 

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

You already watch more TV than I do; there's no show I "love". Netflix I've also found to be relatively barren.

You might enjoy House of Cards particularly in the current political climate. I didn't even start the series at all until11/9/2017

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

But are you actually saving any money by cord cutting and getting all of those subscriptions? 

 

Yes.  Subscriptions are Netflix, Hulu, Acorn, and Sling TV.... already had Amazon Prime and Netflix.   All together about $65 a month less than Cox TV was...  it's not about money, though..don't want to futz with a cable or satellite service... total on the streaming is about $70/month for the all the services, Cox cable in Phoenix was about $150, with internet on top of that...

Edited September 15, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, dfelt said:

This is very true, people in Tree Hugging Green PNW have always gotten on my about driving full size lifted SUV's and I say so what. I do NOT care about MPG as much as safety and room. After having a suburban rear end my Oldsmobile rental Delta 98 that was totaled and only bent bumper on the Suburban, I would rather wrap my family and friends in steel and protect them over MPG. 

Yes I acknowledge that I can afford to buy the gas for poor MPG auto's, but I agree with you that the CHOICE of Auto I pick meets my needs and desires.

Valid Point here.

I mean more with cars like the Continental or a Camaro SS(mostly last gen) where yeah they're heavy cars but who really cares? They both do what the're designed to do. If you want the manufacturer to drop tons of cash into the overall weight of the vehicle expect something either way more expensive or more Miata-like where handling is their top priority. 

People bitch about how the Ford GT isn't as light as it "should" be and to that I say... so what? I know we don't have any comparisons tests(likely because Ford is afraid of not stomping the competition and they won't look good..HATE THAT) but the formula they wrote is a solid one and weighing..50lbs more than fanboys and girls would like makes for a petty argument, if you ask me. 

12 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The only series I even watch are on Netflix.  Most of them older series, some of them current. I love House of Cards and The Crown is pretty good too. 

House of Cards rocks. I love that show. 

[Drew Dowdell]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I mean more with cars like the Continental or a Camaro SS(mostly last gen) where yeah they're heavy cars but who really cares? They both do what the're designed to do. If you want the manufacturer to drop tons of cash into the overall weight of the vehicle expect something either way more expensive or more Miata-like where handling is their top priority. 

People bitch about how the Ford GT isn't as light as it "should" be and to that I say... so what? I know we don't have any comparisons tests(likely because Ford is afraid of not stomping the competition and they won't look good..HATE THAT) but the formula they wrote is a solid one and weighing..50lbs more than fanboys and girls would like makes for a petty argument, if you ask me. 

Yes, just like 0-60 is largely meaningless for any "normal" vehicle that isn't the GT

[ccap41]

10 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

They did.. The ATS is a superior vehicle to the current 3Series in all ways I can see except the rear seat room which is irrelevant as f@#k to me. The engines in the ATS,  are just as great as the ones in the BMW. Say what U want.. I've had the pleasure of all and really what blew me away was the FACT that the boys at Caddy.. with just one try in a same sized vehicle finally.. were able to not only match, but exceed the class leader in sales and originator of the segment. That's the part U fail to get thru your skull. Every other maker.. Benz.. Audi.. Lexus.. Infiniti tried and failed for several generations with SAME SIZED offerings. Cadillac.. the Sofa of luxury finally gets rid of the idea of a tweener CTS (which used to lose to the smaller cars all the time due to being the same size as their larger sisters.. 5series.. E-Class.. A6 GS) and brings a new competitor.. FOR THE FIRST TIME.. and a COIN TOSS is the only way they can come up with a winner.. against the segment creator.

The rationale is that U can seem to understand that I was using "Lincoln copying Caddy.. Camaro copying Mustang.. " as an example of the lunacy U kicked out concerning the ATS "copying" the 3Series.

LINCOLN COPIED CADILLAC WHEN IT WAS CREATED BY THE SAME FOUNDER OF BOTH BRANDS.

According to YOU it is the better car hands down. Many of the professionals had split decisions. And it is great their first(real) shot at the small sport sedan segment was that great! I'm not knocking their attempt, they made a good product. I'm just saying that they absolutely copied what BMW was doing, because they basically said they were. They absolutely do not have the better engines. n/a V6 without torque vs a severely underrated turbo I6. BMW/s I4 was even better while being severely underrated. Thank god Cadillac finally ditched the garbage 2.5. Not that it was that bad of a motor but it didn't belong in a Cadillac. I4's vs each other was night and day BMW winning. 6's? Same thing. BMW whooped the Cadillac.

ATS 2.0T 0-60: 6.3   1/4 Mile: 14.8

BMW 2.0T 0-60: 5.6   1/4 Mile: 14.3

ATS 3.6 0-60: 5.5   1/4 Mile:14.0

BMW 3.0T 0-60: 4.8   1/4 Mile:13.4

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2012-bmw-328i-vs-2013-cadillac-ats-comparison-test

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/3-series/2012/2012-bmw-335i-2013-cadillac-ats-mercedes-benz-c350-comparison/

Uhhh... When did the ATS ever outsell the 3 Series...? 

So Lincoln didn't copy a specific car from Cadillac? I didn't think so. 

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

People bitch about how the Ford GT isn't as light as it "should" be and to that I say... so what? I know we don't have any comparisons tests(likely because Ford is afraid of not stomping the competition and they won't look good..HATE THAT)

I understand why you hate that.....

But there are fanboys such as El Kabong and SMK (but it in real world...automotive journalists on the web or magazines and stuff) that will ALWAYS denounce no matter what the Ford GT really does...

And THAT is why I understand why Ford would want to limit exposure...

Prove your loyalty with your pocket...if not....PHOQUE OFF!

Ferrari does that too....and its frustrating as an enthusiast that only gets to read about those kinds of cars as we dont have the deep pockets to prove our worth...but at the end of the day...does it really matter?

The Ford GT is proving its worth on real world racing tracks...and its predecessor, is actually being hot rodded, used and abused...in other words,  the Ford GT has a loyal following.

As a manufacturer...I think....nobody wants to hear bullshyte arguments on how their pride and joy sucks...

Ferrari, who EVERYBODY guns for, Porsche, Vette, Ford GT, Lamborghini and even Mercedes...have thin skin...and I dont blame them one bit.

 

This type of trash talk over time...could affect your image...

Yes yes....on Ferrari...sometimes its warranted...

 

Ford was nowhere near that arrogant...yes he was...Henry that is...but then again...what auto manufacturer that has his last name attached to the cars isnt it?

Point is...wanna drive the Ford GT...buy it!

 

[ccap41]

The thing with the GT is even if you and I had the cash for one... we still wouldn't be able to buy one. It isn't like a 488 or 675 where we can order one and get it. No, there was an application process and a limited run of 500(Or was it 1000 in 4 years?) and they're all spoken for. 

So while I agree with you.. I don't for that reason only. Had I had the money..I still COULDN'T get one. 

19 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Never said anything like that. Topnotch today doesn't meant topnotch tomorrow 

You only insinuate it every time Cadillac interiors are compared to anything else.

[Drew Dowdell]

4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

According to YOU it is the better car hands down. Many of the professionals had split decisions. And it is great their first(real) shot at the small sport sedan segment was that great! I'm not knocking their attempt, they made a good product. I'm just saying that they absolutely copied what BMW was doing, because they basically said they were. They absolutely do not have the better engines. n/a V6 without torque vs a severely underrated turbo I6. BMW/s I4 was even better while being severely underrated. Thank god Cadillac finally ditched the garbage 2.5. Not that it was that bad of a motor but it didn't belong in a Cadillac. I4's vs each other was night and day BMW winning. 6's? Same thing. BMW whooped the Cadillac.

ATS 2.0T 0-60: 6.3   1/4 Mile: 14.8

BMW 2.0T 0-60: 5.6   1/4 Mile: 14.3

ATS 3.6 0-60: 5.5   1/4 Mile:14.0

BMW 3.0T 0-60: 4.8   1/4 Mile:13.4

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2012-bmw-328i-vs-2013-cadillac-ats-comparison-test

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/3-series/2012/2012-bmw-335i-2013-cadillac-ats-mercedes-benz-c350-comparison/

Uhhh... When did the ATS ever outsell the 3 Series...? 

So Lincoln didn't copy a specific car from Cadillac? I didn't think so. 

I know that I just posted that 0-60 is largely meaningless, but I want to point out a few things.

1. The change to the 8-speed means the ATS 2.0T matches the BMW now.

2. You need to specify which 2.0T BMW you are referring to. I know what you mean, but BMW offers a 180hp 2.0T as the base engine and that certainly doesn't do 0-60 in 5.6 seconds.

3. You also need to align price points. The BMW 2.0T you are referring is the 330i that starts at $40k. The Cadillac V6 is $44,9k, but comes with a lot more equipment at that price.  When you configure them about the same, the BMW is.... $44,9.  So for the same $44,9k, the Cadillac is just slightly faster.  The base model ATS is substantially faster than the base model 320i, so if you're shopping in that territory, the Cadillac is the way to go.  The 340i is a tweener that Cadillac doesn't have a direct offer to, however, that 3-series model sits mostly in the $50-$60k range,start adding things like heated seats and navi, you'll get to $60k pretty quick. At $60k, you're into the ATS-V which will blow away a 340i no problem since the ATS-V runs with the M3 pack.   TL:DR, you can't align the cars just on cylinder count, you have to look at price also.  BMW is selling 4-cylinder cars for the price of Cadillac 6es.

[G. David Felt]

13 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I watch very little TV. I only have cable because Albert watches it sometimes.

I was scrolling through the on screen guide this evening...... what utter crap is on TV these days?!  I seriously pay for this?

Why I dumped FIOS TV and have only FIOS 100MB Internet at my house. Far Cheaper to pay for Hulu and NetFlix and with my VUDU for movies, I went from $300 a month for HD everything to $99 a month and that includes the cost of the commercial free Hulu and Commercial Free NetFlix.

I also purchased and put up the following HD antenna:

http://www.antennadeals.com/HD8008.html

Got me 70 local HD stations so I do not have to pay for local news and broadcasts anymore. Covers me when I want news and when the son visits and wants to watch Football.

[surreal1272]

2 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Why I dumped FIOS TV and have only FIOS 100MB Internet at my house. Far Cheaper to pay for Hulu and NetFlix and with my VUDU for movies, I went from $300 a month for HD everything to $99 a month and that includes the cost of the commercial free Hulu and Commercial Free NetFlix.

I also purchased and put up the following HD antenna:

http://www.antennadeals.com/HD8008.html

Got me 70 local HD stations so I do not have to pay for local news and broadcasts anymore. Covers me when I want news and when the son visits and wants to watch Football.

I have a similar setup. Screw cable and satellite. 

[Robert Hall]

I have Cox's 300MB service, great for working from home full time and streaming.   Testing it, it's pretty consistently in 250-360mpbs range. 

[ccap41]

4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

2. You need to specify which 2.0T BMW you are referring to. I know what you mean, but BMW offers a 180hp 2.0T as the base engine and that certainly doesn't do 0-60 in 5.6 seconds.

Very true! Similar to the 8spd that wasn't originally in the ATS, the 320i wasn't around back then either. 

So the Cadillac is a bargain? I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing and like you said, it all depends how they're equipped... You could get a base engined car over the price of the optional engined car if one chooses that route. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Just now, ccap41 said:

Very true! Similar to the 8spd that wasn't originally in the ATS, the 320i wasn't around back then either. 

So the Cadillac is a bargain? I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing and like you said, it all depends how they're equipped... You could get a base engined car over the price of the optional engined car if one chooses that route. 

Yes, it absolutely depends on how they are equipped.  However, if you're looking for the best 0-60 for your dollar, there is only a narrow band between $55k and $60k where BMW beats the equivalently priced Cadillac.   I personally don't care about a few 10ths of a second, even a whole second.  I have fallen out of love with turbos, so I head towards the most displacement I can get. For me, that means either the 340i or the ATS V6, but it's not about full throttle acceleration, it's about effortless around town scoot without having to wait for turbos to spool.

[surreal1272]

20 hours ago, ccap41 said:

But they didn't create a better product. They created something equally as good. Both have highs and both have lows but, If I'm not wrong, most comparisons was almost a coin flip as to which was better. Caddy had the chassis while the BMW had the engines. 

 

My rationale had nothing to do with Lincoln. it was solely the BMW 3 being copied by Cadillac. 

What did Lincoln make that was within an inch of every exterior measurement of Cadillac while also saying "we're bench marking X Lincoln" ? 

All of your excuses on why the Continental SHOULDN'T be a good car has nothing to do with why it IS a good car. While it isn't some ground breaking technological advancement(although those seats are pretty damn nifty) they went and did their own thing and said from the beginning what the goal of the car was, and it wasn't to be like another car. 

Outside of enthusiasts, nobody gives a fck what wheels drive your car. It isn't a sports sedan so why does it matter if it is FWD based or RWD based? I'd bet half of the buyers in this large, luxury car segment don't know if their luxury car is FWD or RWD based, they just get AWD if they want it. 

Did their own thing? If you mean by going back to the posh rides of yesterday, then yes they are doing their "own thing". However, it is a formula that has been used by many others over the years, so their "own thing" is really just more of the same to me and the lackluster sales and so so reviews seem to reflect that. It was all hype with very little substance to me which is a shame because it had the potential to be something truly different for Lincoln and it wasn't. 

[surreal1272]

15 hours ago, dfelt said:

Howdy CCAP41, Actually I love the looks of the car, I was very excited as I grew up with Continentals from the late 70's and 80's so seeing a new one had me all set for potentially owning one myself. I have brought this up before that where each manufacture measures to state their hip room, leg room, head room seems to be a non standard that I find very frustrating. 

I have a 40 inch inseam, that means I am more legs than body. As such once I get a front seat set for me and then get out to test the back seat that rear leg room is no where what they state and this is one of my pet peeves. I swear many auto makers measure the front leg room with the seat all the way back then move that seat all the way forward and measure the back seat, like EPA testing that Shows big differences between real world driving and EPA testing for MPG, I find leg room to be a AUTO INDUSTRY BIG LIE!

Love the look and design of the Continental, but the inside is a disappointment to me as it is NOT for a family of big people. I am 6'6" tall, my oldest sister is 6' tall and we cover the shortest to tallest in our family, so when it comes to testing a car, SUV, Truck, I have to make sure I can always sit behind myself and then I know anyone can sit comfy in the car.

No Hate to Hate, Only Auto love but with the real facts that some car's are not made with the true leg, hip, body, head room they state.

This is very true, people in Tree Hugging Green PNW have always gotten on my about driving full size lifted SUV's and I say so what. I do NOT care about MPG as much as safety and room. After having a suburban rear end my Oldsmobile rental Delta 98 that was totaled and only bent bumper on the Suburban, I would rather wrap my family and friends in steel and protect them over MPG. 

Yes I acknowledge that I can afford to buy the gas for poor MPG auto's, but I agree with you that the CHOICE of Auto I pick meets my needs and desires.

Valid Point here.

I would not be caught dead with this 1970s color scheme that Lincoln chose to show off last year. Just hideous and illustrates one of the many problems with this car. The text below it was really eye opening as well.

 

[G. David Felt]

9 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I would not be caught dead with this 1970s color scheme that Lincoln chose to show off last year. Just hideous and illustrates one of the many problems with this car. The text below it was really eye opening as well.

 

Those seats are also something I have noticed on ALL OEM's from Germany to the US and especially Asian rim. Flat, not very comfortable and very disappointing for the amount of features they state. My pet peeve with the current Escalade is I get one as a loaner every time I take mine in for service and where Mine is a very comfortable road trip SUV, the newest ones are not. I love the look, driving characteristics and room in the current Escalade, but the seats are short distance driving comfort only. Very sad!  

[Drew Dowdell]

I love the blue interior.  I'm tired of tan, gray, or black as my only choices.

[G. David Felt]

3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I love the blue interior.  I'm tired of tan, gray, or black as my only choices.

have to say the Mocha Brown interiors are warm, inviting and lovely to me.

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

have to say the Mocha Brown interiors are warm, inviting and lovely to me.

That's what we have in the Encore. It was a dealbreaker for me to not have it when buying the car

[surreal1272]

23 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I love the blue interior.  I'm tired of tan, gray, or black as my only choices.

Blue would be fine if it wasn't all blue throughout. No contrast and just wreaks of the 70s Contis of yore. It ruins a very nice design here. 

[Frisky Dingo]

23 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

U kno I will never give U credit for being the brightest bulb in the pack.. and nothin here is gonna change that.

Similar dimensions DO NOT MAKE A COPY. The ATS is better than the 3Series hands down.. at least the mission the 3Series set out to be before it started copying the philosophy of LEXUS..soft sport/lux. The only real advantage the current 3Series has over an ATS is that it has a 1inch larger backseat.. something that apparently an ENTHUSIASTS such as yourself requires because hauling around your punk ass friends  in the backseat is fun.

The part I put in bold actually means that Cadillac is not copying.. but taking the creation to a higher, better level..aka IMPROVING. By your rationale every CUV that has hit the market with similar size to the Benz ML is a copy. The Camaro is a copy of the Mustang. The Lincoln brand is a copy of Cadillac. Lexus is a copy of Buick... I could go on.

Cadillac engineers completely tried to build a neo-E46 3 Series, for better or worse. It was a blatant copy. The dimensions and all. Just with Art & Science design applied.

The problem is people didn't want that from a Cadillac. It had to many shortcomings for the average buyer in this segment- cramped back seat, cheap interior, awful infotainment system, and underpowered. Now other cars have improved the average driving dynamics level of cars in this segment, and it no longer holds the trump card there it once did.

[surreal1272]

This is all I see when I see that blue interior and it is not good. 

 

[ccap41]

10 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Did their own thing? If you mean by going back to the posh rides of yesterday, then yes they are doing their "own thing". However, it is a formula that has been used by many others over the years, so their "own thing" is really just more of the same to me and the lackluster sales and so so reviews seem to reflect that. It was all hype with very little substance to me which is a shame because it had the potential to be something truly different for Lincoln and it wasn't. 

I didn't say it was an exclusive idea. I even threw out arbitrary numbers of it being in a group of 5. I didn't count or list all of the luxury non-sport sedans but I know they aren't the only one.. isn't the ES, Volvo, 'hatever Acura fits this size' all in a similar group? 

Sales aren't anything special but theyre a heck of a lot better than the POS MKS that it replaced and the product is 10X better than the MKS as well. 

What did you expect it to be? This is the first Lincoln to finally take a step away from Ford by FINALLY using different switchgear and a genuine emphasis on luxury amenities. I already mentioned and agreed with cp that it should have gotten the 9spd out of the gate. Whether it be a delay of the product or a speed up of the 9spd development...that should have been a "Need". 

[Frisky Dingo]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

According to YOU it is the better car hands down. Many of the professionals had split decisions. And it is great their first(real) shot at the small sport sedan segment was that great! I'm not knocking their attempt, they made a good product. I'm just saying that they absolutely copied what BMW was doing, because they basically said they were. They absolutely do not have the better engines. n/a V6 without torque vs a severely underrated turbo I6. BMW/s I4 was even better while being severely underrated. Thank god Cadillac finally ditched the garbage 2.5. Not that it was that bad of a motor but it didn't belong in a Cadillac. I4's vs each other was night and day BMW winning. 6's? Same thing. BMW whooped the Cadillac.

ATS 2.0T 0-60: 6.3   1/4 Mile: 14.8

BMW 2.0T 0-60: 5.6   1/4 Mile: 14.3

ATS 3.6 0-60: 5.5   1/4 Mile:14.0

BMW 3.0T 0-60: 4.8   1/4 Mile:13.4

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2012-bmw-328i-vs-2013-cadillac-ats-comparison-test

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/3-series/2012/2012-bmw-335i-2013-cadillac-ats-mercedes-benz-c350-comparison/

Uhhh... When did the ATS ever outsell the 3 Series...? 

So Lincoln didn't copy a specific car from Cadillac? I didn't think so. 

 

Yeah, to say the ATS is an equal or superior to the 3 Series in every way but back seat room is just downright comical. Greatly inferior powertrains, refinement, infotainment, acceleration, etc.

 

 

[ccap41]

55 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

I would not be caught dead with this 1970s color scheme that Lincoln chose to show off last year. Just hideous and illustrates one of the many problems with this car. The text below it was really eye opening as well.

 

I personally love blue leather. I've only been in one vehicle with it but it was awesome. Helps it was a Range Rover.. 

To each their own. 

[ccap41]

I get to leave work early today because..protesters... 

 @Frisky Dingo Are you away from that crap? I forget where you've said you work. 

[Drew Dowdell]

9 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I didn't say it was an exclusive idea. I even threw out arbitrary numbers of it being in a group of 5. I didn't count or list all of the luxury non-sport sedans but I know they aren't the only one.. isn't the ES, Volvo, 'hatever Acura fits this size' all in a similar group? 

Sales aren't anything special but theyre a heck of a lot better than the POS MKS that it replaced and the product is 10X better than the MKS as well. 

What did you expect it to be? This is the first Lincoln to finally take a step away from Ford by FINALLY using different switchgear and a genuine emphasis on luxury amenities. I already mentioned and agreed with cp that it should have gotten the 9spd out of the gate. Whether it be a delay of the product or a speed up of the 9spd development...that should have been a "Need". 

The 9-speed was being worked on by GM, so I'm not sure how much they could have speeded it up.  

[ccap41]

6 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The 9-speed was being worked on by GM, so I'm not sure how much they could have speeded it up.  

Good point. Then, IMO, they should have pushed the release back some.. I just really feel like they needed that at launch. 

[Frisky Dingo]

8 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I get to leave work early today because..protesters... 

 @Frisky Dingo Are you away from that crap? I forget where you've said you work. 

 

I'm in Kirkwood. Guess we'll see!!

 

 

And if not I got an XD-S 9 always at the ready, so.........

[surreal1272]

39 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I personally love blue leather. I've only been in one vehicle with it but it was awesome. Helps it was a Range Rover.. 

To each their own. 

See my comment to Drew. It's not so much the blue, even though I would not be caught dead with it. It's the total lack of contrast. Lincoln or Land Rover, it doesn't matter. One shade of blue with no contrast, is no better than an all gray, black, or tan interior. That color would also not age well in the Phoenix heat. 

Edited September 15, 2017 by surreal1272

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

I personally love blue leather. I've only been in one vehicle with it but it was awesome. Helps it was a Range Rover.. 

To each their own. 

My '84 Merc 500SEL was silver w/ blue leather..I love blue leather.   Really like the new Conti interiors. 

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Cadillac engineers completely tried to build a neo-E46 3 Series, for better or worse. It was a blatant copy. The dimensions and all. Just with Art & Science design applied.

You keep using that word 'copy', but I do not think it means what you think it means.

Copy:
 

[G. David Felt]

@ccap41 Totally agree with you that the Continental is far superior than the MKS even with the interior sizing issue I ran into. 

For most people in the Average 5'8" size department and even is they are fuller full figures  the continental will be a comfortable ride.

[Cmicasa the Great]

4 hours ago, ccap41 said:

According to YOU it is the better car hands down. Many of the professionals had split decisions. And it is great their first(real) shot at the small sport sedan segment was that great! I'm not knocking their attempt, they made a good product. I'm just saying that they absolutely copied what BMW was doing, because they basically said they were. They absolutely do not have the better engines. n/a V6 without torque vs a severely underrated turbo I6. BMW/s I4 was even better while being severely underrated. Thank god Cadillac finally ditched the garbage 2.5. Not that it was that bad of a motor but it didn't belong in a Cadillac. I4's vs each other was night and day BMW winning. 6's? Same thing. BMW whooped the Cadillac.

ATS 2.0T 0-60: 6.3   1/4 Mile: 14.8

BMW 2.0T 0-60: 5.6   1/4 Mile: 14.3

ATS 3.6 0-60: 5.5   1/4 Mile:14.0

BMW 3.0T 0-60: 4.8   1/4 Mile:13.4

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2012-bmw-328i-vs-2013-cadillac-ats-comparison-test

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/3-series/2012/2012-bmw-335i-2013-cadillac-ats-mercedes-benz-c350-comparison/

Uhhh... When did the ATS ever outsell the 3 Series...? 

So Lincoln didn't copy a specific car from Cadillac? I didn't think so. 

1) According to U.. considering U are wanting to buy an ATS so bad.. I mean if it isn;t the best car in the class in YOUR opinion.. why U pining for one?

2) No.. they didn't absolutely copy what BMW was doing with the 3Series at the time.. they bench-marked the 3series that BMW had out from 1998-2006.. 6 years later.. because that was the last 3series to hold true to what made most fall for it in the first place. Had Cadillac bench-marked the E90+ and F30+ U might have gotten me to concur. They didn't,.. and BENCH-MARK is not copying. 

3) No.. sorry. Perhaps if we were talking about BMW's 6 vs the LLT 3.6L.. or maybe even the LFX.. but the LGX is a very sweet engine.. and the power comes in quite nicely (even the LFX in my Impala is very nice..) and as long as U know how to drive U can render quite a few supposed extra tenths that BMW has on it pointless in the 0-60 contests

 

BTW.. I see your 0-60 claims are coming from the 4 year old version of the ATS not the ACTUAL car that's on sale TODAY. The current car's performance numbers are much improved over those due to a new Tranny (edit... I see Drew schooled U)

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

2 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

Yeah, to say the ATS is an equal or superior to the 3 Series in every way but back seat room is just downright comical. Greatly inferior powertrains, refinement, infotainment, acceleration, etc.

 

 

Sorry Slick... power trains are on par.. and on top of that.. they tend to be reliable unlike the POSs that BMW puts in its cars. Infotainment??? Naaaah.. I love CUE. Cue's biggest complaint was always that it was touchscreen. Me being a person in the modern age knows how to use touch screen quite well.. as I'm travelling down the road at 80mph+ texting on my cell phone and answering FB posts

[Frisky Dingo]

1 minute ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Sorry Slick... power trains are on par.. and on top of that.. they tend to be reliable unlike the POSs that BMW puts in its cars. Infotainment??? Naaaah.. I love CUE. Cue's biggest complaint was always that it was touchscreen. Me being a person in the modern age knows how to use touch screen quite well.. as I'm travelling down the road at 80mph+ texting on my cell phone and answering FB posts

 

Nobody who is even slightly objective thinks that but you.

[Cmicasa the Great]

11 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

Nobody who is even slightly objective thinks that but you.

when your objectivity comes into play.. and it actually leads U to go out and buy a BMW )or otherwise in the lux segment..) instead of just playing them up.. come back to me. To me, long with great acceleration, limited NVH, smoothness.. a great powertrain is one that I am not always worried about fuckin up on me.. or not starting when I go fire her up.. and giving me anxiety when the warranty is almost exhausted

[cp-the-nerd]

ATS 2.0T 8A
0-60: 5.7 sec
1/4 mi: 14.2 @ 98 mph

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/cadillac/ats/2017/2017-cadillac-ats-20t-first-test-review/

ATS 2.0T 6M
0-60: 5.7 sec
1/4 mi: 14.1 @ 101 mph

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-cadillac-ats-coupe-20t-manual-test-review

I could only find one test of the ATS V6/8A RWD. It was by C&D and it was slower than their test of the old V6/6A, which is clearly an aberration. Tests of the alpha Camaro V6 8A and 6M are both running high 13s and trapping 102-103 mph.

[G. David Felt]

1 hour ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Naaaah.. I love CUE. Cue's biggest complaint was always that it was touchscreen. 

I agree, I love CUE and while it was slow to respond in the early days, it is now very responsive and awesome.

Course always plenty of room to improve!

[Frisky Dingo]

4 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

when your objectivity comes into play.. and it actually leads U to go out and buy a BMW )or otherwise in the lux segment..) instead of just playing them up.. come back to me. To me, long with great acceleration, limited NVH, smoothness.. a great powertrain is one that I am not always worried about fuckin up on me.. or not starting when I go fire her up.. and giving me anxiety when the warranty is almost exhausted

 

Why would I buy either of the cars being discussed? They're both massively inferior to other players not only in their own segment, but in others as well.

[Drew Dowdell]

Im really curious what Par is. None of the German 4-cylinder blow me away. They're functional and meet expectations for a Turbo 4, but they aren't the paragon of refinment. 

An inline 6 will usually be better refined than a V6 I'll admit, but with a statistics of 1 in the entire segment, that would be better than Par. Most of the segment uses V6es or Turbo V6es. Cadillac offers both in the ATS, plus a good performance turbo-4. 

And again, for the price that Cadillac will start selling you a V6, you're still getting a 4cylinder at Benz, BMW, and Audi. You want a Turbo 6 at Benz? It will be cheaper than an ATS-V for the C43 to start, but add just 2 packages that contain stuff that is standard on the V and you've already match it in price... and even in a C43, you'll have to look at those tail light blades disappearing over the horizon. Wash, rinse, repeat at Audi and BMW.

Lexus and Infiniti change the value equation the other direction. Infiniti will put you in a 300hp turbo 6 for just $38k, Lexus will put you in a NA 255hp V6 for $40k. Possibly more refined than the ATS but behind in performance. You can get a 306 hp V6 also...less power than Grandpa's W-body Impala. The Acura TLX with 290 hp for $36k is probably the cheapest way into a 6 cylinder and Honda does makes a good engine....shame the rest of the car doesn't live up to the class.

So tell me, from $44k to over $50k (closer to $55k if equally equipped) Cadillac is selling you a V6 car while the Germans are pushing 4 poppers. How is that sub-par?

[Cmicasa the Great]

17 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

Why would I buy either of the cars being discussed? They're both massively inferior to other players not only in their own segment, but in others as well.

Since we were talking about the 3 series and ATS, U are saying that they are inferior to others in their segment? Maybe I'm missing something but I could have swore that both of them are pretty much tops in this segment despite the fact that only one vehicle has really come out and took them down in performance, that being the Alfa Romeo,  which is historically one of the shittiest companies ever to buy a vehicle from.. Who are these superior vehicles? Interesting enough both are at the end of their life cycle and still respectable

[ocnblu]

OMG the Ford Ecosport "Build & Price" site is active!  I just went over there and built an SES model.  It is the top of the line, above the Titanium.  SES comes with AWD standard. Looks pretty cool with blacked out trim, etc.  $28,400 with optional wheels and interior protection package... which undercuts the Trax Premiere AWD... when comparably equipped... by about $2k!  Ecosport SES comes with Nav, sunroof, cloth and leather seats... on and on and on.  Neat little CUV man!  And I like the idear of a swing-out tailgate... means I can open it inside my garage with the garage door open, no clearance problems.

Edited September 17, 2017 by ocnblu

[Robert Hall]

14 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

 And I like the idear of a swing-out tailgate... means I can open it inside my garage with the garage door open, no clearance problems.

Hmm...good point.   I wonder if the hatch on my Jeep will open in my 1967 garage..the ceiling seems really low.  (I haven't put in the garage yet because the garage is still full of boxes and stuff from my move). I know, I know..after 3+ months, I should have the garage empty by now, but I've been busy...running around exploring NE Ohio on the weekends, multiple remodeling projects going on lately..

Edited September 17, 2017 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[ocnblu]

What a neat little bugger... and it comes with tow hooks front and rear on the SES.  This is man card material!

[ocnblu]

[balthazar]

Uhhhhhhhhh................... . .   .      .               ..

[Robert Hall]

Hmmm, so Ocn, does this new infatuation mean the Compass will be short-lived in your life? 

[G. David Felt]

57 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

What a neat little bugger... and it comes with tow hooks front and rear on the SES.  This is man card material!

Looks like a Trax Just Ford Badged. Pretty cool, I totally agree the black out trim is sweet.