Random Thoughts Thread

[G. David Felt]

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

A hit piece.
As soon as you resort to personal attacks, you've tipped your hand.

Yes that does make logical sense. There are many interesting reads in the Tech Sector on the Jalopnik.com site.

 

[balthazar]

[smk4565]

21 hours ago, David said:

Seems Mercedes Benz cannot move forward with Electric auto's without help from Stellantis and their American auto section that covers Chrysler/Dodge/Ram/Jeep who is ahead of Mercedes in battery / electric development for BEVs.

Thought that $40 Billion in R&D was putting Mercedes on top of the electric auto company. Seems they are falling farther and farther behind.

@smk4565 Thoughts on this development?

Stellantis and TotalEnergies welcome Mercedes-Benz as a new partner of Automotive Cells Company (ACC), raising its capacity to at least 120 GWh by 2030 | Automotive Cells Company (acc-emotion.com)

Stellantis and TotalEnergies welcome Mercedes-Benz as a new partner of Automotive Cells Company (ACC) and raise its capacity plan to at least 120 GWh by 2030 | Corporate communications | Stellantis

Mercedes-Benz to join ACC and build a European battery champion with global ambitions - Daimler Global Media Site

Daimler Getting Back Into Bed With Chrysler for Battery Biz (thetruthaboutcars.com)

 

Those articles talk about European batter production, which of course these car companies are going to need a lot of battery technology and capacity to get economies of scale and cost down.  And I'd imagine after VW, Stellantis and Daimler are the next 2 biggest car companies in Europe.  And Because Mercedes has the resources they can buy up these battery companies, where as a Tesla or Lucid or Rivian can't do that.

[ccap41]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

And Because Mercedes has the resources they can buy up these battery companies, where as a Tesla or Lucid or Rivian can't do that.

I believe you're underestimating the people/companies backing Tesla and Rivian. I don't think Rivian is even close to be able to do this yet but they have the backing that if their vehicles do take off well, they could get in on that as well. If not, their partnership with Ford and Amazon could do the legwork. 

[balthazar]

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by balthazar

[surreal1272]

Saw this just now on Facebook and it proves why I cannot stand dealerships and wish they all would take a damn hike. The guy who posted this is literally a salesman for Capital Ford in Raleigh (near me). For $100K, that better come with about ten kilos of the devils dandruff is all I’m going to say. 
 

[oldshurst442]

One hundred thousand dollars for a Bronco?

If somebody buys that vehicle from this guy and dealership, then that buyer deserves to be taken advantage of.  

I understand that the dealership shouldnt be asking for these kinds of prices because its a ridiculous mark-up . But I also understand that dealerships could ask as much as they want because its their right as a business...   

(its been driven 301 miles so as to avoid FoMoCo disciplining them...) 

That doesnt mean a buyer HAS to buy it.     I dont care how much in need one is for a vehicle...one DOES need to exercise restraint.  

 

 

 

[riviera74]

2 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Saw this just now on Facebook and it proves why I cannot stand dealerships and wish they all would take a damn hike. The guy who posted this is literally a salesman for Capital Ford in Raleigh (near me). For $100K, that better come with about ten kilos of the devils dandruff is all I’m going to say. 
 

$100K for this (nearly) new Bronco?  That would only be acceptable for a fully loaded brand new Escalade.  NO way am I paying that much when I should buy THREE of those at MSRP.

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

One hundred thousand dollars for a Bronco?

If somebody buys that vehicle from this guy and dealership, then that buyer deserves to be taken advantage of.  

I understand that the dealership shouldnt be asking for these kinds of prices because its a ridiculous mark-up . But I also understand that dealerships could ask as much as they want because its their right as a business...   

(its been driven 301 miles so as to avoid FoMoCo disciplining them...) 

That doesnt mean a buyer HAS to buy it.     I dont care how much in need one is for a vehicle...one DOES need to exercise restraint.  

 

 

 

I get the right to sell it and I get the loophole their using. I’m not debating that. My point is that too many dealerships are dirty dealing scumbags with these kind of tactics. They will never move that Bronco for $100K though, not even in high dollar Raleigh. 
 

Sidenote, he is technically false advertising the sale. That Bronco is not “brand new” if it has 300 miles on it. The general rule of thumb is under 200 miles can be still considered “new”. Again, dealership and greed going hand in hand. I saw a similar dealership do this with the C8 with a $121K sticker only to see it see on the lot for five months and eventually dropped down to $100K. Karma is a indeed a bitch. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by surreal1272

[oldshurst442]

Just now, surreal1272 said:

I get the right to sell it and I get the loophole their using. I’m not debating that. My point is that too many dealerships are dirty dealing scumbags with these kind of tactics. They will never move that Bronco for $100K though, not even in high dollar Raleigh. 

 Dirty scumbags or not, until idiots STOP biting into that kind of gouging, it will continue to happen.

The most effective deterrent to those sh1tty tactics IS when NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY buys severely marked-up vehicles. Which also includes special cars. Like the first examples of a C8 Corvette (Z06 or Stingray) or GT500 Mustang or Hellcat Challenger entering the market for the first time etc let alone a freakin' Bronco.  

Yeah, a Bronco is a great vehicle. Ford did an awesome job with it and yeah, its a bonafide offroader like how the 1960s original was.  

Like you said, this dumb dealership will (hopefully) be stuck with it for the next 30-40 years.

Like this dumb dealership with the GNX

The owner's son who inherited the dealership from his dad, I think that is how the story goes, marked up the GNX that time just passed by.  

The idiots 30-40 years later went on Jay Leno's garage to try to sell it.  Yeah...it was advertising to off load it. They werent showcasing it... 

The backstory. I read up on it... 

 

 

[oldshurst442]

17 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Sidenote, he is technically false advertising the sale. That Bronco is not “brand new” if it has 300 miles on it. The general rule of thumb is under 200 miles can be still considered “new”. Again, dealership and greed going hand in hand. I saw a similar dealership do this with the C8 with a $121K sticker only to see it see on the lot for five months and eventually dropped down to $100K. Karma is a indeed a bitch. 

 

Fraud?   If 200 miles and under is new and this is 301?    Could this be brought to the attention of the better business bureau or any other kind of consumer protection agency?   If any of them actually gives a shyte to begin with?  

DId they sell the Vette eventually?

Because insurance and loan debt on an unsold car in today's market where there are NO vehicles for sale and little to no revenue coming in due to the chip shortage WILL hurt the dealership.  LOL

MORONS! 

 

 

[balthazar]

I believe that the legal standpoint is; the vehicle is 'new' if it was never titled.

- - - - -
I have zero issue with a dealer asking whatever they want for a vehicle. The market will decide if 'it' wants to pay that number.

 

[surreal1272]

10 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

 Dirty scumbags or not, until idiots STOP biting into that kind of gouging, it will continue to happen.

The most effective deterrent to those sh1tty tactics IS when NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY buys severely marked-up vehicles. Which also includes special cars. Like the first examples of a C8 Corvette (Z06 or Stingray) or GT500 Mustang or Hellcat Challenger entering the market for the first time etc let alone a freakin' Bronco.  

Yeah, a Bronco is a great vehicle. Ford did an awesome job with it and yeah, its a bonafide offroader like how the 1960s original was.  

Like you said, this dumb dealership will (hopefully) be stuck with it for the next 30-40 years.

Like this dumb dealership with the GNX

The owner's son who inherited the dealership from his dad, I think that is how the story goes, marked up the GNX that time just passed by.  

The idiots 30-40 years later went on Jay Leno's garage to try to sell it.  Yeah...it was advertising to off load it. They werent showcasing it... 

The backstory. I read up on it... 

 

 

Here's the thing. Most places never move cars like at those outrageous prices. It's just a common tactic used by way too many dealers to just "test the waters" on inflated prices based on perceived (or even real) hype. As I pointed out with he Vette example, most of the time they never sell for the original inflated price. All it does, in the long run, is tarnish an already horrible image of car dealerships and its high time they pull their heads out their collective a**** and stop trying to rip off people at every turn. Much more of it and Tesla won't be the only dealership free make out there. Just my opinion.

 

And lol on the GNX but price aside, that is one cherry looking ride! 

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

I believe that the legal standpoint is; the vehicle is 'new' if it was never titled.

- - - - -
I have zero issue with a dealer asking whatever they want for a vehicle. The market will decide if 'it' wants to pay that number.

 

Then you are complicit in $h!ty behavior. I have worked at several dealerships that pulled this crap and there is no real defending this type of nonsense and all it does stain the reputation of said dealership as well as the brand in question. That particular dealership I brought up has done this before and caught hell for it while they tout "taking care" of their customers. Sorry, I know how you feel about them, but dealerships are the dinosaurs of today and the sooner they die off (or at least change these deceptive pricing schemes) the better. 

[surreal1272]

10 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

DId they sell the Vette eventually?

I did not follow up. It was a dealership near my work and this was about three months ago when I noticed the last price drop at $100K. Point is that they realized that they were being greedy and no one was going to pay $45K over markup for base model Vette. The dealership has always been shady as hell anyway. It is no longer on the lot, is all I know.  

[surreal1272]

Meanwhile, literally up the road from my house (and thirty minutes from Raleigh), the exact same model, also with 300 miles. 

 

But yeah, keep pretending the other dealership is just going by the market and not just being greedy assholes. 

 

Edit: I just noticed that the Burlington ad is using the EXACT same pics as the Raleigh ad. No, nothing dirty going on here.

Edited September 29, 2021 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

I'm not saying the market is determining a $100K tag, I'm saying the market will determine if a $100K tag is viable. That's exactly what was at work when the Vette's tag was cut $21K. No dealer can force anyone to pay 'adjusted' pricing.

OEMs do the very same thing with 'launch editions' that cost $5K or $10K more for the same vehicle. There, the market generally says that practice is viable, because those sell (and commonly; sell out). 

I'm only speaking my mind; personally I'd never pay a 'market adjustment' but then again, I never buy first-year vehicles anyway.

Edited September 29, 2021 by balthazar

[surreal1272]

Just now, balthazar said:

I'm not saying the market is determining a $100K tag, I'm saying the market will determine if a $100K tag is viable. That's exactly what was at work when the Vette's tag was cut $21K.

OEMs do the very same thing with 'launch editions' that cost $5K or $10K more for the same vehicle. There, the market generally says that practice is viable, because those sell (and commonly; sell out). 

I'm only speaking my mind; personally I'd never pay a 'market adjustment' but then again, I never buy first-year vehicles anyway.

Feel free to call it that if you want instead of calling a spade a spade (basic bull$h! greed). And there is a BIG difference between $5K to $10K dealer markups (still a joke in my opinion) and asking DOUBLE the MSRP. Thats not even close to an apples to apples comparison Balth and you know it. 

[oldshurst442]

24 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

And lol on the GNX but price aside, that is one cherry looking ride! 

Yes it is.  As it should.  It was brand new during the taping of that episode.  LOL

 

 

[ccap41]

12 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Sidenote, he is technically false advertising the sale. That Bronco is not “brand new” if it has 300 miles on it. The general rule of thumb is under 200 miles can be still considered “new”.

I think their loophole is that it hasn't been titled yet. 

[balthazar]

Look; asking $100K for a Bronco is flat ridiculous. And it’s not going to sell at $100K, or even $75K. 
But if someone came in my (fictional) dealership and offered me -say- $60K on a 40-something Bronco, sure as hell I’m taking their money.

It’s the buyer’s choice.

[oldshurst442]

Dealerships ARE a business. PRIVATELY OWNED businesses.  Franchises.  

A restaurant franchise ALSO has the right to sell its food HIGHER than what the franchisor suggests. 

That is why a franchised store in a downtown core of a city sells its food HIGHER than in the suburbs. Higher rents. But that is a big maybe.  Sometimes, restaurant franchises sell their food at the same price as the downtown core franchise DESPITE having lower rents and lower property taxes to pay and such.

Ultimately, its up to the consumer to decide what he/she values.  

Problem is, there is a sucker born every minute, sometimes with more money than brains, that enable this practice.

From businessman's point of view:  I dont have a problem with that. Like Balthy said:  If someone wants to pay 20 bucks for my less than a dollar hotdog. I too, will GLADLY sell it to him.   Hey, Ill even give him free napkins to wipe his face.  (Which I already do, but Ill advertise that napkins come with the hotdog to give him the illusion of value and me taking care of him because I care for him...)

But...if I raise my hotdog prices to 20 dollars each, Im afraid Im going out of business real freakin' quick...

Market decides.

And if there are enough suckers out there, dont blame the business opportunity of the dealerships. Yes...they will test the market. If they catch a fish, they caught a fish. 

Sometimes it works out for them. Sometimes it dont.

If they have the arrogance to test the waters that way. Let them.  As a consumer though, I wouldnt buy from them. EVER.   But unfortunately, there are many that dont abide by yours  (@surreal1272  and @balthazar) and my way of consuming.   

 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

@oldshurst442 Talking about hotdogs, I have to say, I get these from Business Costco as they are not sold at the regular costco, but they are awesome. Beef Brisket Hotdogs, grill up great, juicy and flavorful. Awesome when made as a Seattle dog which is a butter grilled bun, hotdog, cream cheese, sautéed onions and spicy BBQ sauce.

[surreal1272]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

Look; asking $100K for a Bronco is flat ridiculous. And it’s not going to sell at $100K, or even $75K. 
But if someone came in my (fictional) dealership and offered me -say- $60K on a 40-something Bronco, sure as hell I’m taking their money.

It’s the buyer’s choice.

Let me put it this way. They don't allow for price gouging of gas (even when supplies are way below demand) so why in the hell is it allowed on the cars that run on them and cost exponentially more money? It is beyond ridiculous IMO. Again, I get the buyers choice argument but that does not change my core argument of dealerships being dirty bastards for dong it in the first place and they will find their way out the door with potential buyers if they keep pulling these tactics. The writing has been on the wall for that to happen for years.

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

A restaurant franchise ALSO has the right to sell its food HIGHER than what the franchisor suggests. 

Not at more than double the suggested price and if they did, they wouldn't be in business for very long.

Edited September 29, 2021 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

And while we are it, explain this deceitful (and illegal) tactic.

 

"Last week, several publications reported on a Bronco order holder getting hit with a $5,000 "market adjustment" even though the car in question was reserved by him, ordered, and built to his exact spec. As it turns out, the dealer indeed tried to mark up the truck due to circumstances we'll go into, but as a lack of follow-up stories failed to uncover, its new owner Brian Hendra ended up paying MSRP after going back and forth with the dealership.'

 

Source:https://www.thedrive.com/news/42452/heres-whats-really-going-on-with-ford-bronco-dealer-markups

 

 

 

No buyer should have to go back and forth with a dealer over this. The price was agreed upon at the point of order. The dealership marking it up another $5K is damn near and illegal bait and switch. Again, those dealerships that some here claim we still need.

 

To note, the key part of the argument form the customer in question here.

"I understand what you're saying," Hendra wrote to the dealer. "There's not a dealer in Jersey that's not selling a [Kia] Telluride for two or three thousand dollars over cost, but I ordered this car well over a year ago. I understand you're in a predicament, but this is an agreed-upon price for a special-ordered vehicle."

Edited September 29, 2021 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

No buyer should have to go back and forth with a dealer over this. The price was agreed upon at the point of order. The dealership marking it up another $5K is damn near and illegal bait and switch. Again, those dealerships that some here claim we still need.

100% agreed- that's shit business. A deal is a deal.

However, your last statement is a whitewashed generalization; no one is saying 'we need a dealer that'll try to add on 5 grand after paperwork is signed'. Because that's certainly not a common practice whatsoever.

[oldshurst442]

4 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Not at more than double the suggested price and if they did, they wouldn't be in business for very long.

Yes. THAT is what I said. I used me as an example. I wouldnt last too long. 

But, there are restaurants that sell "gourmet" hamburgers at ridiculous prices.  

We are getting away from what we initially want to discuss, but at the core of things, people decide what they want to pay for an object.    The gourmet burger is marketed in such a way that draws in people to pay through the nose for what was once upon a time ago, poor people food...    Sure, these gourmet burgers put exotic mushrooms on them.  

Hello...   mushrooms are a freakin' fungus that bored kids in France used to find in their forests.  Indigenous North American folk also gathered in their quest to survive in the most natural ways possible...    Soldiers are taught to know which ones are poisonous and which ones are not...   IE... nothing that says exquisite dining in MY eyes.

What does THAT have to do with anything here?

Like I said, its people and the market that decide what is the value.

The OEM provides the marketing and hype of the vehicle in question.  

Supra

C8 Corvette

Bronco

Mustang GT500

Hellcat/Demon Challenger 

The hype is generated by the OEM.

The price is set by the dealership

The people decide what they actually want to pay to be the first to own that desired vehicle

Hey...if (enough)  people are dumb enough to pay 100 000 dollars for a freakin' Bronco, kudos to the dealership for catching fish on their line. 

And kudos for Ford (in this case) for creating SUCH a desirable vehicle... 

I DO agree with you. It IS shytty business practices.  

Just RESTRAIN yourself from buying into that price. 

But if there is one idiot willing to do so, you cant really blame the dealership for trying. 

As for I.

I just WISH I could sell a (one) hotdog for 20 bucks...    

2 hotdogs, fry and a coke. A cool one hundred dollar bill.  (plus tax)  And there is a line-up to the door like I have now?   Do I need to express my feelings for that scenario?  

 

 

 

 

[balthazar]

Is the same 'bullshit greed' when VW takes a circa $3 million Bugatti & upcharges it to $13 million?
Did they add $10 million worth of anything to the same car? It's got the same engine...

Do we 'not need the OEM structure' anymore' because the Bugatti brand did this... or is this a bunch fluff over basically nothing.

- - - - -
If folk are willing to pay for it, they will. It's on the OEM to determine if they can make their balance sheet work doing so on any sort of scale. It's the same scenario for the dealer, who buys inventory on borrowed capital & incurs carrying costs for vehicles month-by-month as they sit; what will be their bottom line? This is how dealers selling the same product (a Ford Bronco) can sell (or try to) ones at $100K... and at $2K below MSRP.

[surreal1272]

32 minutes ago, balthazar said:

 

Is the same 'bull$h! greed' when VW takes a circa $3 million Bugatti & upcharges it to $13 million?

 

Difference is that VW made the damn car Balth and the people who made the car get to set the price. The dealership has no such ownership of it. I know you want to defend dealerships and their perceived purpose but that is not even close to same thing as what I’m talking about and you know it. 

[balthazar]

If you are speaking to 'ownership' of vehicle pricing; dealers do - vehicles routinely sell for under MSRP.

If some day all franchised dealers went away and OEMs had to handle all sales & servicing directly, that's over.

[balthazar]

[surreal1272]

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

If you are speaking to 'ownership' of vehicle pricing; dealers do - vehicles routinely sell for under MSRP.

If some day all franchised dealers went away and OEMs had to handle all sales & servicing directly, that's over.

Not what I am talking about at all. The dealership had no stake in the development or production of the vehicle. They are nothing more than a Bestbuy for cars except they have to cover commission for their mostly useless sales staff.

[surreal1272]

14 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

But, there are restaurants that sell "gourmet" hamburgers at ridiculous prices. 

But those prices set from the get go. It's not like they sell them for $30 a pop and then, after you when you get there, double the price because of hype. You know, from the start, those are the prices. These dealerships operate on a. much sneakier level and have for decades and no amount of defense by their supporters will change that fact, especially when I have worked for some of those places and seen it first hand.

 

Let me put it another way. iPhones are hyped every year and sometimes there is a shortage on those for a few months due to the hype. Now imagine going to Verizon, Bestbuy, or wherever else they are sold and they decide to sell them at 50% above Apple's MSRP because of said hype. People would lose their minds and then Apple swoops in to pull those iPhones from said shops because they do not allow retailers to sell above their asking price. Honestly, that is what Ford should do to these dealerships that do that because it just hurts Ford's reputation in the long run and makes them look greedy as well. Not a good PR look.

[surreal1272]

30 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

after you when you get there

Correction: "After you get there"

[ccap41]

Is it also wrong when shopping on Amazon, when they're just acting as a middle-man, and there are some absurd prices found? Or do you just see the price and say "Well, I'm not buying from here." ?

This is a $6-15($15 being really high already).

 

34 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Let me put it another way. iPhones are hyped every year and sometimes there is a shortage on those for a few months due to the hype. Now imagine going to Verizon, Bestbuy, or wherever else they are sold and they decide to sell them at 50% above Apple's MSRP because of said hype.

This is different because Apple sets the prices they're to be sold at. They cannot change the price on these. 

[surreal1272]

23 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Is it also wrong when shopping on Amazon, when they're just acting as a middle-man, and there are some absurd prices found? Or do you just see the price and say "Well, I'm not buying from here." ?

This is a $6-15($15 being really high already).

 

This is different because Apple sets the prices they're to be sold at. They cannot change the price on these. 

Amazon is a very different kind of operation though and more multifaceted than your average car dealership. They are nothing more than eBay with just a Buy It Now format for various sellers. Not the most accurate comparison. 

 

Also, read the entire discussion on this because I've already covered the buyers choice aspect of this.

Edited September 30, 2021 by surreal1272

[ccap41]

Yeah, so just don't buy it. I don't really understand the outrage of a dealership asking an absurd price for a vehicle. I think it's stupid and will never pay over MSRP, but they're free to ask whatever they want, assuming the parent company allows this. 

[trinacriabob]

Two regulars are having b-days today on C&G, according to the homepage:

William Maley and ccap41

Every once in a while, I spot these.  I just returned to check the forum after crossing the pond, so I'm still a wet noodle.

Happy birthday to both C&G members!

[ccap41]

It’s lost the only thing that still gave the car character, it’s nasty V8 noises. 
 

 

[balthazar]

^ looks dumpy, whatever segment that's supposed to be in.

[daves87rs]

What worries me is just how bad things are going to get for new cars in general. The used car market is going to be nuts! I thought I might have to fight to keep my Equinox. Looks like it might even be a little cheaper as well. So I’m planning the purchase late next month/early November. Thinking about keeping the Trax as well. Cars are not going to be cheap for a very long time……

[trinacriabob]

On my outbound flight a few weeks ago, I had a few movies to look at on my video monitor.  I didn't really listen to it with earphones, but I kept glancing at "Nomadland" while eating, napping, looking out the window ...

It had Frances McDormand in it.  She was in "Three Billboards ...," another dark movie. I've come to the conclusion that you might need to be on I.V. antidepressants to watch a movie with Frances McDormand.

[balthazar]

18 hours ago, daves87rs said:

Cars are not going to be cheap for a very long time……

What are you talking about??
Didn't you hear? Electric cars are coming, with fewer parts, they'll be really super excellent and cost like $8000 total. D.C is going to outlaw shortages and inflation next week!

[oldshurst442]

7 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

On my outbound flight a few weeks ago, I had a few movies to look at on my video monitor.  I didn't really listen to it with earphones, but I kept glancing at "Nomadland" while eating, napping, looking out the window ...

It had Frances McDormand in it.  She was in "Three Billboards ...," another dark movie. I've come to the conclusion that you might need to be on I.V. antidepressants to watch a movie with Frances McDormand.

I dunno much about this actor. I had to google who he was.  Turns out Ive seen a handful of her movies.  (Oh...I also realized that the male version of Frances is spelled with an 'I' not an 'E' when I realized who the actor in question was after I was done googling...) 

But yeah!  

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by oldshurst442

[G. David Felt]

Have to say on a late Friday night that Bacon Armadillo Eggs sound really yummy right about now.

Bacon Wrapped Armadillo Eggs Recipe - How to Make Bacon Wrapped Armadillo Eggs (delish.com)

https://www.delish.com/71a42144-375b-4c91-a4b4-bc53df4e966c 

[trinacriabob]

Random, indeed:

Chevrolet - can you say "Towne Coupe?"

Pontiac - both the optioning out and the photographic effects on this one are hilarious

[Robert Hall]

^ mini-PLCs on the Vega H-platform. Automakers went crazy for PLCs of all sizes in the late 70s, these were GM's answer to the Mustang II Ghia.

[balthazar]

From Instagram ~ 
 

[trinacriabob]

3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

^ mini-PLCs on the Vega H-platform. Automakers went crazy for PLCs of all sizes in the late 70s, these were GM's answer to the Mustang II Ghia.

Very true.  Do some notchbacking with the sheetmetal, throw on a landau top, make the rear passenger window appear smaller, and even add some wire wheels (uh ... no, to the last one).  

The line up of engines was really interesting - the 140 4 from the Vega replaced by the Iron Duke, a 231 even firing as well as the smaller 196 V6, and THREE V8s, from the original 262 to the 250, all by Chevrolet.  And something weird with having to move the V8 engine to get to the plugs!

Vega's (not Monza's) engine had a "nickname" about its durability (cough) when the slogan could have been "melts in your engine bay, not in your mouth" ... or something like that.

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

From Instagram ~ 
 

Too much.  Obviously a '73.  I'm wondering what state this person lives.

"El Cutlassino."

Edited October 2, 2021 by trinacriabob

[trinacriabob]

7 hours ago, trinacriabob said:

The line up of engines was really interesting - the 140 4 from the Vega replaced by the Iron Duke, a 231 even firing as well as the smaller 196 V6, and THREE V8s, from the original 262 to the 250, all by Chevrolet.  And something weird with having to move the V8 engine to get to the plugs!

Meant to say from the original (rendition of the) 262 to the 350 - so, 262, 305, and 350 V8s.

These things could move with just a V6, based on the comments of some participants on other forums.

I think the GM ones look a little clunky, with the Pontiac looking a tad better.  The small Ford Mustang, especially in Ghia form, dialed in on the lines better.

This one appears to have a small V8 badge, so a 302 (5.0) Ford V8.

[Robert Hall]

The '73 Cutlass 'El Camino' is interesting looking..needs paint.  Interesting how the front end looks without the nasty '73 front bumper...