Cadillac Confirms 335HP/432 lb-ft 2.0L Plug-in Hybrid For CT6

[smk4565]

Who says this will be near $100k?  If it is they will sell like 5 of them all year.  I don't see why they couldn't make a hybrid 4 cylinder model the same price as a turbo V6.

[balthazar]

Some running CT6 numbers thru the 'build' site have reported $96K. I haven't, but in that the TTV8 isn't online yet, clearly that model should crest $100K.

 

And it hasn't been 'Cadillac fans' that have suggested the CT6 is to compete with the s-class, but the Cadillac haters, vi my observation. Cadillac fans, one would think, would take Cadillac PRs to heart, and those have only stated it would NOT compete against the s-class. But price alone doesn't determine what vehicles are cross-shopped (tho it is the primary factor).

[smk4565]

I made a mistake before, the S-class hybrid is rear drive, not AWD.

 

Even the TT V8 CT6 should be able to start under $90k.  If a Platinum turbo V6 is $80-something, adding 2 cylinders shouldn't push the price too much.  I think the hybrid has to be cheap or it won't sell at all.  People would rather have a V8 than a hybrid.  Look at the Escalade, one of Cadillac's best sellers and it is thirsty as hell.  Luxury buyers don't care about gas mileage.  The exception to the rule is Tesla because it is modern and trendy and the car does 0-60 in 3 seconds, so it can beat all the V8s anyway.

[surreal1272]

I don't think the CT6 competes with the S-class.  There was speculation as to what the CT6 would compete with before it was released, but now that we have seen the car and have the specs and pricing, clearly it is not an S-class competitor.   Cadillac fans seem to want to compare it to an S-class, I am sure Hyundai/Kia fans want to call the Equus and K900 S-class competitors but they are not.

 

 

The comparison was made of the CT6 plug in to the S-class plug in and the 0-60 time.  So first off, not the same price point or segment, second the S-class is AWD.  If you add AWD to the CT6 plug in you are adding more weight which will slow down that 5.3 second 0-60 time and cut into range.   That was my only point.  with AWD, the CT6 is probably 5.5 seconds 0-60 and loses 5 miles of range.  Which are still good numbers if priced around $65k.N

 

 

No it wasn't. You brought up the horsepower difference between two cars that, you have confirmed, do not compete with each other. And no matter whether the CT6 is AWD or not, it is still a half ton lighter than and AWD S Class. Again, you brought up the engine and horsepower and I merely countered with the fact that the weight is far higher on the S class.

Who says this will be near $100k?  If it is they will sell like 5 of them all year.  I don't see why they couldn't make a hybrid 4 cylinder model the same price as a turbo V6.

Does Mercedes do that? Nope.

[surreal1272]

I don't know man, I mean, Cadillac went from an $80K PHEV that nobody noticed to what will probably be an over $100K PHEV.  I fear similar.  But I applaud the tech approach.

 

Hey GM, how about just an affordable hybrid that is netting about 50mpg?  Actually, the industry is moving to 60mpg real soon, so start there.

Maybe it's because they are busy working on more affordable cars that don't even need gas.

http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/article/bolt-ev-concept-car.html

[El Kabong]

It will do fine in establishing a beachhead in the segment. The only other cars of similar capability appear to have less sophisticated electric drive options, which makes sense considering GM's long experience with the technology.

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

I don't know man, I mean, Cadillac went from an $80K PHEV that nobody noticed to what will probably be an over $100K PHEV.  I fear similar.  But I applaud the tech approach.

 

Hey GM, how about just an affordable hybrid that is netting about 50mpg?  Actually, the industry is moving to 60mpg real soon, so start there.

Maybe it's because they are busy working on more affordable cars that don't even need gas.

http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/article/bolt-ev-concept-car.html

 

 

 

That's nice and all, but nobody is buying EV.

Affordable, roomy hybrids sell.  That much is a fact.

[El Kabong]

Good thing the Malibu is coming then.

[surreal1272]

 

 

I don't know man, I mean, Cadillac went from an $80K PHEV that nobody noticed to what will probably be an over $100K PHEV.  I fear similar.  But I applaud the tech approach.

 

Hey GM, how about just an affordable hybrid that is netting about 50mpg?  Actually, the industry is moving to 60mpg real soon, so start there.

Maybe it's because they are busy working on more affordable cars that don't even need gas.

http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/article/bolt-ev-concept-car.html

 

 

 

That's nice and all, but nobody is buying EV.

Affordable, roomy hybrids sell.  That much is a fact.

 

Maybe that is a problem for Ford because Chevy is getting ready to sell them and there is a demand for them. Also, as Bong pointed out, the Malibu Hybrid is coming out and its projected to push 50MPG so maybe you were not aware of that fact.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

I don't know man, I mean, Cadillac went from an $80K PHEV that nobody noticed to what will probably be an over $100K PHEV.  I fear similar.  But I applaud the tech approach.

 

Hey GM, how about just an affordable hybrid that is netting about 50mpg?  Actually, the industry is moving to 60mpg real soon, so start there.

Maybe it's because they are busy working on more affordable cars that don't even need gas.

http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/article/bolt-ev-concept-car.html

 

 

 

That's nice and all, but nobody is buying EV.

Affordable, roomy hybrids sell.  That much is a fact.

 

 

 

About 100,000 EV +387,000 Hybrid cars suggest otherwise. Furthermore GM, Ford.. and the rest would be fools to not push the development of such cars if for no other reason than them being able to continue selling trucks. I for one would have no issue with the eventual demise of the ICE. Its coming. Its inevitable. For Godsake its only been 120 years

 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

 

 

I don't know man, I mean, Cadillac went from an $80K PHEV that nobody noticed to what will probably be an over $100K PHEV.  I fear similar.  But I applaud the tech approach.

 

Hey GM, how about just an affordable hybrid that is netting about 50mpg?  Actually, the industry is moving to 60mpg real soon, so start there.

Maybe it's because they are busy working on more affordable cars that don't even need gas.

http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/article/bolt-ev-concept-car.html

 

 

 

That's nice and all, but nobody is buying EV.

Affordable, roomy hybrids sell.  That much is a fact.

 

 

 

About 100,000 EV +387,000 Hybrid cars suggest otherwise. Furthermore GM, Ford.. and the rest would be fools to not push the development of such cars if for no other reason than them being able to continue selling trucks. I for one would have no issue with the eventual demise of the ICE. Its coming. Its inevitable. For Godsake its only been 120 years

 

 

Thank you for proving my original point, that hybrids sell, and that GM needs more affordable hybrids.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Drew Dowdell
because

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

 

 

I don't know man, I mean, Cadillac went from an $80K PHEV that nobody noticed to what will probably be an over $100K PHEV.  I fear similar.  But I applaud the tech approach.

 

Hey GM, how about just an affordable hybrid that is netting about 50mpg?  Actually, the industry is moving to 60mpg real soon, so start there.

Maybe it's because they are busy working on more affordable cars that don't even need gas.

http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/article/bolt-ev-concept-car.html

 

 

 

That's nice and all, but nobody is buying EV.

Affordable, roomy hybrids sell.  That much is a fact.

 

 

 

About 100,000 EV +387,000 Hybrid cars suggest otherwise. Furthermore GM, Ford.. and the rest would be fools to not push the development of such cars if for no other reason than them being able to continue selling trucks. I for one would have no issue with the eventual demise of the ICE. Its coming. Its inevitable. For Godsake its only been 120 years

but alas this is only your take because Ford is currently not in the headlines with such bold moves. If they were.. U'd be pushing it like no tomorrow.

 

Thank you for proving my original point, that hybrids sell, and that GM needs more affordable hybrids.

 

And honestly casa, you calling me out for promoting a brand is hilarious.  The day I get a tattoo of my favorite brand (God, I have to still lol at that) is the day I will stop cheering for mine.

 

 

 

 

Funny U should say that.. as I was considering a Corvette tatt as well to go along with my avatar one. 

 

As to the hybrid point..  The CT6 and Volt are essentially Hybrids.. just with longer range due to being the PHEV variety. No different than what Ford tried to copy with Energi. Furthermore, as Willy pointed out.. the Malibu is coming with 48MPG.. according to GM, but I wouldn't be surprised if it hits 50 in EPA tests.

 

U see when GM makes Fuel Economy claims.. they don't have to follow it up with a "Check is in the mail" bulletin for lying 

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

Yup, hybrids are 'right around the corner.'

 

Hence my other point, GM needed to put eggs in that basket many years ago. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

Yup, hybrids are 'right around the corner.'

 

Hence my other point, GM needed to put eggs in that basket many years ago. 

 

 

 

apparently the eggs are in the basket. If GM wanted to make everything Hybrid.. they could and U kno it. 

[El Kabong]

I wouldn't be too worried about GM. They had the better idea in the truck segment by introducing a smaller one, and they definitely had the better idea as far as sport coupes. Small, efficient sedans? Not an issue.

[surreal1272]

Carry on. I believe this was about the awesome CT6 plug in hybrid.

 

 

 

I don't know man, I mean, Cadillac went from an $80K PHEV that nobody noticed to what will probably be an over $100K PHEV.  I fear similar.  But I applaud the tech approach.

 

Hey GM, how about just an affordable hybrid that is netting about 50mpg?  Actually, the industry is moving to 60mpg real soon, so start there.

Maybe it's because they are busy working on more affordable cars that don't even need gas.

http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/article/bolt-ev-concept-car.html

 

 

 

That's nice and all, but nobody is buying EV.

Affordable, roomy hybrids sell.  That much is a fact.

 

 

 

About 100,000 EV +387,000 Hybrid cars suggest otherwise. Furthermore GM, Ford.. and the rest would be fools to not push the development of such cars if for no other reason than them being able to continue selling trucks. I for one would have no issue with the eventual demise of the ICE. Its coming. Its inevitable. For Godsake its only been 120 years

but alas this is only your take because Ford is currently not in the headlines with such bold moves. If they were.. U'd be pushing it like no tomorrow.

 

They were the first auto manufacturer at the new Mcity facility.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Drew Dowdell
Don't fuel the fire please.

[Drew Dowdell]

There is no reason to being comparing the ELR to the CT6.  The ELR, while good looking IMO, was a limited use vehicle because it was a coupe and coupes of all types are hard sells. 

 

The only compromise I can see in the CT6 is in the trunk space due to the battery.

[surreal1272]

There is no reason to being comparing the ELR to the CT6.  The ELR, while good looking IMO, was a limited use vehicle because it was a coupe and coupes of all types are hard sells. 

 

The only compromise I can see in the CT6 is in the trunk space due to the battery.

And it doesn't look to be too big of a compromise either. Seems to be plenty of space left in there. I know in the older Malibu and the Fusion Hybrid, the trunk spaces in those take a hit but those are slightly smaller cars and form factors than the CT6.

[Cmicasa the Great]

There is no reason to being comparing the ELR to the CT6.  The ELR, while good looking IMO, was a limited use vehicle because it was a coupe and coupes of all types are hard sells. 

 

The only compromise I can see in the CT6 is in the trunk space due to the battery.

 

 

Jesus.. Did I miss the ELR being brought up in a conversation ? It was a waste of time. Basically there should have never been an ELR, as beautiful as it is... especially when you had the new Voltec powertrain sitting in the wings getting ready to come out in the CT6. Fact is... ELR should have been the ATS coupe or sub ATS sports car with a normal power train. A PERSONAL LUXURY COUPE. Nice.

[surreal1272]

 

There is no reason to being comparing the ELR to the CT6.  The ELR, while good looking IMO, was a limited use vehicle because it was a coupe and coupes of all types are hard sells. 

 

The only compromise I can see in the CT6 is in the trunk space due to the battery.

 

 

Jesus.. Did I miss the ELR being brought up in a conversation ? It was a waste of time. Basically there should have never been an ELR, as beautiful as it is... especially when you had the new Voltec powertrain sitting in the wings getting ready to come out in the CT6. Fact is... ELR should have been the ATS coupe or sub ATS sports car with a normal power train. A PERSONAL LUXURY COUPE. Nice.

 

The ELR was just not the right car for Cadillac. As you said, it should have been an ATS derivative and at a much lower price point than the ELR. Funny thing about the ELR though si that I saw two different ones in three days just last week. Just weird to see two that close together given the paltry sales numbers on those. Still a sharp looking car IMO, but it should have never seen the light as it was marketed.

[Cmicasa the Great]

A guy over at GMI got this recently 

 

 

 

and I had to call him on it... Almost identical.. except one is made for Fuel Efficiency.. and the other is made for ripping a hole in time

 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

 

There is no reason to being comparing the ELR to the CT6.  The ELR, while good looking IMO, was a limited use vehicle because it was a coupe and coupes of all types are hard sells. 

 

The only compromise I can see in the CT6 is in the trunk space due to the battery.

 

 

Jesus.. Did I miss the ELR being brought up in a conversation ? It was a waste of time. Basically there should have never been an ELR, as beautiful as it is... especially when you had the new Voltec powertrain sitting in the wings getting ready to come out in the CT6. Fact is... ELR should have been the ATS coupe or sub ATS sports car with a normal power train. A PERSONAL LUXURY COUPE. Nice.

 

 

The ATS Coupe is the ATS coupe.   I get the impression from the cut-away model that I saw, that this system in the CT6 is pretty bulky. I'm not sure how well it will scale down to an ATS sized vehicle. CTS would probably be the smallest it can go.

 

The reason for this is the battery size/shape.

[ccap41]

A guy over at GMI got this recently 

 

 

 

and I had to call him on it... Almost identical.. except one is made for Fuel Efficiency.. and the other is made for ripping a hole in time

 

 

I'd take your pair over his every day of the week. ELR compared to a CTS-V, EASY! Stingray with a tacky hood sticker, no thanks!

 

You've got yourself quite the pair of cars there, man.

[hyperv6]

Well now that this topic has been through the spectrum here is the main focus here.

 

The future will be hybrid not V12 engines and 700 HP sedans. While we may have a couple the future regulations are going to change how cars are build made and driven.

 

Cadillac had made a good package here to start with that give a lighter car, full size car with more than enough HP for the road and crazy MPG. It is about the entire package not just some pick and choose categories like one person here like to focus on.

 

This is where they all will be going no matter if you like it or not as this is the only way they can make cars like this to survive into the future. Sure the rare V12 Hybrid may be there but it will much more expensive than this car and most others only sold the .001%.

 

To many in this group right now these hybrid cars are a novelty of technology. The buyers in this segment were the first to embrace DOHC cams back in the 20's and 30's. They also were the first to embrace Supercharging and other technologies over the years. This is not much different.

 

Because hybrids are not for everyone yet we will still see TT V6 engines as well as a TT V8 later on that will be offered by Cadillac along with more power from even smaller engines.

Again this is a whole package deal and we have to look at it this way. Our one troll here can not comprehend where this is all going and is so focused on one point he is blind to everything else happening.

 

We will see very similar moves from the Germans and even different takes on the same ideas.

[El Kabong]

There is no reason to being comparing the ELR to the CT6.  The ELR, while good looking IMO, was a limited use vehicle because it was a coupe and coupes of all types are hard sells. 

 

The only compromise I can see in the CT6 is in the trunk space due to the battery.

The ELR was one of the most beautiful FWD cars ever built, and I recall the interior being a nice place to be as well. But the chassis tech and driveline weren't really what Cadillac needed. Too bad, because as I said, the car was a looker.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

A guy over at GMI got this recently 

 

 

 

and I had to call him on it... Almost identical.. except one is made for Fuel Efficiency.. and the other is made for ripping a hole in time

 

 

I'd take your pair over his every day of the week. ELR compared to a CTS-V, EASY! Stingray with a tacky hood sticker, no thanks!

 

You've got yourself quite the pair of cars there, man.

 

 

 

Thanks.. but the hood decal aside I love the look of the CF roof, but I prefer the transparent one I have as well.

The VCoupe is certainly sweet, but I am seriously looking forward to the Gen3 VSedan and its HP bump, not to mention new level of luxury

[Cmicasa the Great]

Well now that this topic has been through the spectrum here is the main focus here.

 

The future will be hybrid not V12 engines and 700 HP sedans. While we may have a couple the future regulations are going to change how cars are build made and driven.

 

Cadillac had made a good package here to start with that give a lighter car, full size car with more than enough HP for the road and crazy MPG. It is about the entire package not just some pick and choose categories like one person here like to focus on.

 

This is where they all will be going no matter if you like it or not as this is the only way they can make cars like this to survive into the future. Sure the rare V12 Hybrid may be there but it will much more expensive than this car and most others only sold the .001%.

 

To many in this group right now these hybrid cars are a novelty of technology. The buyers in this segment were the first to embrace DOHC cams back in the 20's and 30's. They also were the first to embrace Supercharging and other technologies over the years. This is not much different.

 

Because hybrids are not for everyone yet we will still see TT V6 engines as well as a TT V8 later on that will be offered by Cadillac along with more power from even smaller engines.

Again this is a whole package deal and we have to look at it this way. Our one troll here can not comprehend where this is all going and is so focused on one point he is blind to everything else happening.

 

We will see very similar moves from the Germans and even different takes on the same ideas.

 

 

Knowing out Troll for the past 10 years, I can tell U that he, despite being raised on GM's dime, will do anything to pump-up  Ford product no matter what it is. He is the same person that once tried to convince me that the Escalade.. was in danger.. of being discontinued ..after the debut of that ugly Lincoln MKT. Yes.. I said MKT. The one that most will only be caught DEAD in.. literally

 

[smk4565]

GM should put the plug-in hybrid into the Silverado.  335 hp/432 lb-ft is more than the 5.3 liter V8 makes.  There is obviously space for batteries and weight isn't a concern.  

 

All these car makers want to introduce hybrids and electrics, but the biggest gas guzzlers are the best sellers.  This is why CAFE makes no sense also.  Companies make a 40 mpg car that they lose money on to offset a 15 mpg truck they make profit on.    Look at GM's best sellers, 600,000 pick ups a year, 350,000 Lambdas and Tahoes/Yukons a year.   Almost a million units of trucks that average 20 mpg at best.  Why not put the plug in technology there and reap the impact.  

[surreal1272]

GM should put the plug-in hybrid into the Silverado.  335 hp/432 lb-ft is more than the 5.3 liter V8 makes.  There is obviously space for batteries and weight isn't a concern.  

 

All these car makers want to introduce hybrids and electrics, but the biggest gas guzzlers are the best sellers.  This is why CAFE makes no sense also.  Companies make a 40 mpg car that they lose money on to offset a 15 mpg truck they make profit on.    Look at GM's best sellers, 600,000 pick ups a year, 350,000 Lambdas and Tahoes/Yukons a year.   Almost a million units of trucks that average 20 mpg at best.  Why not put the plug in technology there and reap the impact.  

They had hybrid powertrains in the last gen. Tahoe and they did not sell. Same with the pick up if I'm not mistaken.

[ccap41]

I believe you are correct, Surreal. Tahoe and Silverado.

 

I think with how technology has advanced it is worth checking out again though. I assume you could bring the costs down some on both the manufacturing side and customer side to make them more competitively priced. I assume the outgoing ones didn't sell because they were too pricey over their gasoline counterparts. Plus, I think the customer was seeing X-price tag and only 1-2 mpg.

 

C&D did a review of the 09 Sierra Hybrid 4WD and only got 16mpg and it was rated 20/20. Its payload and towing capability dropped considerably from 9500lbs to 6100lbs and payload dropped from 1714lbs to 1418lbs and all of this came with an extra price tag of 5500 over the base Sierra crew cab.

 

They tested a Silverado Hybrid and netted 14mpg with 300miles of towing(they didn't say how many total miles they put on it)

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2009-gmc-sierra-hybrid-instrumented-test

[Guest Wings4Life(BANNED)]

 

Well now that this topic has been through the spectrum here is the main focus here.

 

The future will be hybrid not V12 engines and 700 HP sedans. While we may have a couple the future regulations are going to change how cars are build made and driven.

 

Cadillac had made a good package here to start with that give a lighter car, full size car with more than enough HP for the road and crazy MPG. It is about the entire package not just some pick and choose categories like one person here like to focus on.

 

This is where they all will be going no matter if you like it or not as this is the only way they can make cars like this to survive into the future. Sure the rare V12 Hybrid may be there but it will much more expensive than this car and most others only sold the .001%.

 

To many in this group right now these hybrid cars are a novelty of technology. The buyers in this segment were the first to embrace DOHC cams back in the 20's and 30's. They also were the first to embrace Supercharging and other technologies over the years. This is not much different.

 

Because hybrids are not for everyone yet we will still see TT V6 engines as well as a TT V8 later on that will be offered by Cadillac along with more power from even smaller engines.

Again this is a whole package deal and we have to look at it this way. Our one troll here can not comprehend where this is all going and is so focused on one point he is blind to everything else happening.

 

We will see very similar moves from the Germans and even different takes on the same ideas.

 

 

Knowing out Troll for the past 10 years, I can tell U that he, despite being raised on GM's dime, will do anything to pump-up  Ford product no matter what it is. He is the same person that once tried to convince me that the Escalade.. was in danger.. of being discontinued ..after the debut of that ugly Lincoln MKT. Yes.. I said MKT. The one that most will only be caught DEAD in.. literally

 

 

 

 

Complete lie. Never said anything close to this, and you keep repeating this again and again and I keep debunking it.

And speaking of brand bias........

[hyperv6]

You do understand how much they would cost over an already high price. Also you do understand too that they have not gone through the weight reduction the cars are seeing now. You also understand that the Aero numbers for a high profile vehicle is not all that great for using electric energy yet.

The cost is high the net gains are very small and until the improvement in battery design is increased the results for larger vehicles like this are limited at best for now. They are not like a Tesla where you can just jack the price up for a larger battery and get away with selling 90K units over 5 years.

Get real and get a better understanding of the big picture here. I think you would have learned something by now.... Well We had hope.

Edited November 21, 2015 by hyperv6

[hyperv6]

Well now that this topic has been through the spectrum here is the main focus here.

 

The future will be hybrid not V12 engines and 700 HP sedans. While we may have a couple the future regulations are going to change how cars are build made and driven.

 

Cadillac had made a good package here to start with that give a lighter car, full size car with more than enough HP for the road and crazy MPG. It is about the entire package not just some pick and choose categories like one person here like to focus on.

 

This is where they all will be going no matter if you like it or not as this is the only way they can make cars like this to survive into the future. Sure the rare V12 Hybrid may be there but it will much more expensive than this car and most others only sold the .001%.

 

To many in this group right now these hybrid cars are a novelty of technology. The buyers in this segment were the first to embrace DOHC cams back in the 20's and 30's. They also were the first to embrace Supercharging and other technologies over the years. This is not much different.

 

Because hybrids are not for everyone yet we will still see TT V6 engines as well as a TT V8 later on that will be offered by Cadillac along with more power from even smaller engines.

Again this is a whole package deal and we have to look at it this way. Our one troll here can not comprehend where this is all going and is so focused on one point he is blind to everything else happening.

 

We will see very similar moves from the Germans and even different takes on the same ideas.

 

 

Knowing out Troll for the past 10 years, I can tell U that he, despite being raised on GM's dime, will do anything to pump-up  Ford product no matter what it is. He is the same person that once tried to convince me that the Escalade.. was in danger.. of being discontinued ..after the debut of that ugly Lincoln MKT. Yes.. I said MKT. The one that most will only be caught DEAD in.. literally

 

Come on he will tell us that is just the Taurus sorry I mean the new Lincoln Shooting Brake that would sell zillions If they would build it.

[Drew Dowdell]

The advantages of the 2-mode hybrids weren't really to be seen in highway driving anyway... there was to be some highway MPG increase, but not a substantial one.... so both were testing it wrong.

 

The 2-mode could run as electric only up to 30 mph. All of the improvements in FE would have been seen in city/suburban driving under light loads.  Also, the 2-mode didn't have the battery power that the CT6 PHEV does. The new system can also run the CT6 to 75mph in EV mode.  You figure in an Escalade it should be able to do at least 50 mph.

 

I remember SMK whining about how the 2-mode was "only a 4-speed", but it wasn't.  It was 2 CVTs and 2 planetary gear sets capable of a broad range of ratios. 

 

I wonder if he'll bring up a similar complaint on this one.

[hyperv6]

Well now that this topic has been through the spectrum here is the main focus here.

 

The future will be hybrid not V12 engines and 700 HP sedans. While we may have a couple the future regulations are going to change how cars are build made and driven.

 

Cadillac had made a good package here to start with that give a lighter car, full size car with more than enough HP for the road and crazy MPG. It is about the entire package not just some pick and choose categories like one person here like to focus on.

 

This is where they all will be going no matter if you like it or not as this is the only way they can make cars like this to survive into the future. Sure the rare V12 Hybrid may be there but it will much more expensive than this car and most others only sold the .001%.

 

To many in this group right now these hybrid cars are a novelty of technology. The buyers in this segment were the first to embrace DOHC cams back in the 20's and 30's. They also were the first to embrace Supercharging and other technologies over the years. This is not much different.

 

Because hybrids are not for everyone yet we will still see TT V6 engines as well as a TT V8 later on that will be offered by Cadillac along with more power from even smaller engines.

Again this is a whole package deal and we have to look at it this way. Our one troll here can not comprehend where this is all going and is so focused on one point he is blind to everything else happening.

 

We will see very similar moves from the Germans and even different takes on the same ideas.

 

 

Knowing out Troll for the past 10 years, I can tell U that he, despite being raised on GM's dime, will do anything to pump-up  Ford product no matter what it is. He is the same person that once tried to convince me that the Escalade.. was in danger.. of being discontinued ..after the debut of that ugly Lincoln MKT. Yes.. I said MKT. The one that most will only be caught DEAD in.. literally

 

 

 

Complete lie. Never said anything close to this, and you keep repeating this again and again and I keep debunking it.

And speaking of brand bias........

Note when I said Troll I did not have you in mind.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

Well now that this topic has been through the spectrum here is the main focus here.

 

The future will be hybrid not V12 engines and 700 HP sedans. While we may have a couple the future regulations are going to change how cars are build made and driven.

 

Cadillac had made a good package here to start with that give a lighter car, full size car with more than enough HP for the road and crazy MPG. It is about the entire package not just some pick and choose categories like one person here like to focus on.

 

This is where they all will be going no matter if you like it or not as this is the only way they can make cars like this to survive into the future. Sure the rare V12 Hybrid may be there but it will much more expensive than this car and most others only sold the .001%.

 

To many in this group right now these hybrid cars are a novelty of technology. The buyers in this segment were the first to embrace DOHC cams back in the 20's and 30's. They also were the first to embrace Supercharging and other technologies over the years. This is not much different.

 

Because hybrids are not for everyone yet we will still see TT V6 engines as well as a TT V8 later on that will be offered by Cadillac along with more power from even smaller engines.

Again this is a whole package deal and we have to look at it this way. Our one troll here can not comprehend where this is all going and is so focused on one point he is blind to everything else happening.

 

We will see very similar moves from the Germans and even different takes on the same ideas.

 

 

Knowing out Troll for the past 10 years, I can tell U that he, despite being raised on GM's dime, will do anything to pump-up  Ford product no matter what it is. He is the same person that once tried to convince me that the Escalade.. was in danger.. of being discontinued ..after the debut of that ugly Lincoln MKT. Yes.. I said MKT. The one that most will only be caught DEAD in.. literally

 

 

 

 

Complete lie. Never said anything close to this, and you keep repeating this again and again and I keep debunking it.

And speaking of brand bias........

 

 

Unfortunately, we do have more than one person here who trolls.....

[smk4565]

The 2-mode hybrid Silverados and Tahoes didn't add enough mpg because it was still a V8 (and batteries are getting batter).  By switching out a 5.3 liter V8 with a 2.0T 4-cylinder and electric model you could probably cut fuel consumption in half.  And the highest margin vehicles GM makes are Escalade, Tahoe, and Silverado and the GMC counterparts.  So you can hide the cost better in those.  Plus it is a vehicle that could use the fuel economy push.  You could push the Silverado to 30 mpg, to me that makes more sense than something like a Malibu hybrid when the Malibu is lower margin and already gets decent fuel economy.

[Suaviloquent]

Well, Ford and Toyota are two automakers that had publicly released that they would collaborate for hybrid truck feasibility study. I bet GM and RAM must have also fiddled around with it too on their own.

 

That was a few years ago. It ended up being a bust. It's probably very feasible to make hybird or electric trucks, and DFelt actually had a pretty good explanation of what it would take to do it. On a large scale volume, the costs could be reduced to.

 

It's probably a customer expectations/marketing issue, Ford and Toyota had some focus groups or something. Now it's already pretty astounding how V6s have become alive and well in trucks these days.

 

But a four cylinder gas and electric hybrid might be just too much right now. I think once automakers make every other model as efficient as possible (which is imminent) they'll turn right back to trucks. What is cool though is that Audi has some hybrid tech where the batteries just go into crevices in the vehicle so it doesn't do anything to hurt packaging.

[smk4565]

I'd rather try to market a 4-cylinder and electric hybrid in a $35,000 pick up than a $90,000 performance-luxury sedan.  Plus if you figure the take rate on the plug-in hybrid rate of either product might be 5%.  Even if 5% of Silverado buyers pick the hybrid, that is 30,000 units a year.  If 5% of CT6 buyers take the hybrid that might be 500 cars a year.  You aren't getting much return on investment out of 500 units.  If you scale it to 50,000 vehicles of year, you drive the cost down.

[surreal1272]

I'd rather try to market a 4-cylinder and electric hybrid in a $35,000 pick up than a $90,000 performance-luxury sedan.  Plus if you figure the take rate on the plug-in hybrid rate of either product might be 5%.  Even if 5% of Silverado buyers pick the hybrid, that is 30,000 units a year.  If 5% of CT6 buyers take the hybrid that might be 500 cars a year.  You aren't getting much return on investment out of 500 units.  If you scale it to 50,000 vehicles of year, you drive the cost down.

You are living in a fantasy land. They will not put a 4 cylinder in a FULL SIZE truck, where job number one is towing and payload, something that having a hybrid on top of a 4 cylinder motor would absolutely kill. A TTV6/hybird combo would be more likely, but again the hybrid systems put  major dent on towing and payload capabilities, which is a major roadblock for pick up buyers.

[Suaviloquent]

I'd rather try to market a 4-cylinder and electric hybrid in a $35,000 pick up than a $90,000 performance-luxury sedan.  Plus if you figure the take rate on the plug-in hybrid rate of either product might be 5%.  Even if 5% of Silverado buyers pick the hybrid, that is 30,000 units a year.  If 5% of CT6 buyers take the hybrid that might be 500 cars a year.  You aren't getting much return on investment out of 500 units.  If you scale it to 50,000 vehicles of year, you drive the cost down.

 

I'd rather try to market a 4-cylinder and electric hybrid in a $35,000 pick up than a $90,000 performance-luxury sedan.  Plus if you figure the take rate on the plug-in hybrid rate of either product might be 5%.  Even if 5% of Silverado buyers pick the hybrid, that is 30,000 units a year.  If 5% of CT6 buyers take the hybrid that might be 500 cars a year.  You aren't getting much return on investment out of 500 units.  If you scale it to 50,000 vehicles of year, you drive the cost down.

 

The Voltec system is getting its mass-market volume in the Volt. Putting it to use in flexible architectures across other business units means the costs to integrate the tech across platforms isn't going to be as prohibitive as it used to be when the only way to do it was to just platform share, like how Toyota and Ford do to sell hybrids in their premium brands. 

 

The return on investment is coming from multiple brands, many cars, not just the premium GM brands.