Ram News: Don't Expect A Midsize Truck From Ram

[William Maley]

You would think that with the introduction of the Chevrolet Colorado/GMC Terrain and refreshed Toyota Tacoma, the likes of Ford and Ram would be getting in the midsize truck action. But Ram boss Bob Hegbloom can't make it work for the brand. The problem according to Automotive News is the price of higher fuel economy.

Hegbloom explained that back in the heyday of midsize trucks - the 1980's - consumers bought them because they were considerably smaller, less expensive, and boasted impressive fuel economy. Although midsize trucks had less capability than their full-size compatriots, consumers didn't mind.

"When you look at those four factors, that's truly what a midsize pickup customer is looking for. I've been able to develop a strategy to come up with three of the four -- and even with what's out there on the market today, I haven't seen anyone who can deliver on all four," said Hegbloom.

To Hegbloom, a midsize truck from Ram would have to achieve 35 MPG on the highway. The Ram 1500 EcoDiesel can achieve 29 MPG on the highway.

"If full-size now is pushing 30 [mpg], you're going to expect a midsize to be at least at 35. You're also going to expect it to be significantly less expensive. But to bring the technology in to deliver on 35 mpg, then you're going to raise the price," said Hegbloom.

Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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[G. David Felt]

This is where the Compact pickup truck could excel. Forget the mid size and build a true compact pickup truck.

[Drew Dowdell]

It's not just about fuel economy.  Some people just don't want to wheel around a full size truck no matter how great the fuel economy is... it is simply too much vehicle for them to handle. 

[thedriver]

I don't want/need a midsize truck. I have owned a '95 Chevy S10 and an '80 Dodge D50.  I just need 4 cylinders and a 6 foot bed. For me anything more is overkill.

[ocnblu]

I do love my new midsize truck... but I would have bought a smaller truck happily.

[FAPTurbo]

Why RAM hasn't come out with a small pickup based on the FIAT 'Small-Wide' (and its 4x4 derivative (Jeep Renegade)) platform is beyond me. That'd be a perfect base to build a pickup for urban/suburban use, and would likely hit the fuel economy targets that RAM needs. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Why RAM hasn't come out with a small pickup based on the FIAT 'Small-Wide' (and its 4x4 derivative (Jeep Renegade)) platform is beyond me. That'd be a perfect base to build a pickup for urban/suburban use, and would likely hit the fuel economy targets that RAM needs. 

 

A Renegade EXT would be killar!

[G. David Felt]

Sucky Photo shop that I am, wish I could figure out how people keep the background and edit the car but this is what I think the standard cab would look like for a Jeep Renegade Truck

[ocnblu]

dfelt = Rembrandt of C&G. 

 

It would be WICKED tho if it happened!

[Robert Hall]

It's too bad they haven't built the Wrangler based pickup like the concept from a few years ago..that was cool and stylish.

[G. David Felt]

Thanks Ocn for the laugh. I agree it would be wicked if it did happen for a compact pickup that City and Suburban peeps would love with High Gas mileage.

[Drew Dowdell]

It's too bad they haven't built the Wrangler based pickup like the concept from a few years ago..that was cool and stylish.

 

That may be the biggest single reason Ram won't get one.... they are serious about bringing a Wrangler pickup in the next generation. 

 

.... all of the BS about fuel economy is just that.... bs.  GM sold over 9,000 of their new pickups in February with no decrease in sales of Silverado or Sierra.... and no decrease in sales of the Tacoma (up 13%)  or Frontier (up 5.4%).  The GM twins came out of no-where and are now outselling the Tundra and Frontier even though both of those models are still posting increasing sales. 

 

The mid-size truck market is growing and Ram ignores it at their own peril. 

[Stew]

I think everyone is watching GM still.  There have been small Ram truck mules spotted, but they are still denying it.  GM built such a fantastic midsizer they really raised the bar.  i own 2 3rd gen Dakota regular cabs and find the size perfect for me. 

[Drew Dowdell]

I think everyone is watching GM still.  There have been small Ram truck mules spotted, but they are still denying it.  GM built such a fantastic midsizer they really raised the bar.  i own 2 3rd gen Dakota regular cabs and find the size perfect for me. 

 

I don't know how much longer FCA can sit it out and watch.  Wentzville workers just got their lunch break slashed  just so GM could squeeze out an extra 3,500 trucks a year and adding 1,000 flex workers to get another 2,000 trucks a month. 

[Stew]

the big question is, how big of a market is out there?  I think there are buyers left, but the reason the midsize truck world died in the first place was because of lack of sales.  I do think GM needs to up production BIG TIME, especially when the diesel comes out.  I have driven a new Z71 and it was amazing and IMHO sets a new standard. 

[Drew Dowdell]

The reason the mid-size truck market died is because the products were left to rot on the vine. That's why there were no sales. GM is proving the existence of a market now with worthy products.

[ocnblu]

Would be cool if FCA were to make a pickup trucklet out of the Renegade... but then GMC would need to dust off the Granite CUV and pickup and put them into production.  Not a bad thing, imo!

[Stew]

The reason the mid-size truck market died is because the products were left to rot on the vine. That's why there were no sales. GM is proving the existence of a market now with worthy products.

Not exactly, a lot had to do with price.  At the time the difference between a midsize and fullsize was very small.  that could easily change now since fullsize trucks have gotten ridiculously expensive, that is where they have to be careful.  IMHO, if we see a midsize truck from FCA it will be a Jeep wrangler based truck or a shared platform between ram an Jeep. 

 

the interesting thing, they can do thise.  underneath the skin the 2WD and 4x4  3rd gen Dakotas were totally different trucks.  they could do the same for a Ram and Jeep truck.

[cp-the-nerd]

To Hegbloom, a midsize truck from Ram would have to achieve 35 MPG on the highway. The Ram 1500 EcoDiesel can achieve 29 MPG on the highway.

"If full-size now is pushing 30 [mpg], you're going to expect a midsize to be at least at 35. You're also going to expect it to be significantly less expensive. But to bring the technology in to deliver on 35 mpg, then you're going to raise the price," said Hegbloom.

 

That is such an incredibly weak excuse, GM's midsize twins are a big win in the truck market. It's clear that a less expensive, smaller, more efficient truck has a solid consumer base. They wont build a midsize truck because it can't match the ecodiesel? Come on. We all know the real reason is that their resources are stretched thin right now. Ram as a brand needs another consumer product.

[El Kabong]

The reason the mid-size truck market died is because the products were left to rot on the vine. That's why there were no sales. GM is proving the existence of a market now with worthy products.

Not exactly, a lot had to do with price.  At the time the difference between a midsize and fullsize was very small.  that could easily change now since fullsize trucks have gotten ridiculously expensive, that is where they have to be careful.  IMHO, if we see a midsize truck from FCA it will be a Jeep wrangler based truck or a shared platform between ram an Jeep. 

 

the interesting thing, they can do thise.  underneath the skin the 2WD and 4x4  3rd gen Dakotas were totally different trucks.  they could do the same for a Ram and Jeep truck.

I'm not buying (ahem) the pricing argument. Based on what I see up here a loaded Canyon/Colorado up here rings in about the same as a reasonably-equipped half-ton.

I think the production bottleneck Mopar is now facing as far as its trucks go is also a bit of a factor. Ram production is now maxed out, and I don't know how much flexibility Toledo would have to build a Wrangler-based pickup.

[G. David Felt]

Ram would do well to ignore the mid size market and go with compact. The compact market is just waiting to explode with solid high mileage trucks.

 

Perfect example is the Chevy Luv / Isuzu Pup trucks with diesel and they did outstanding on gas mileage and met most suburban and inner city owners needs.

 

Not everything needs to be Crewcab size. I truly believe they could rule the compact market by taking the Cherokee platform or the Wrangler and build a compact truck that would be very successful. Ford left their compact ranger to rot and yet still sold a ton of them showing a market for a compact truck does exist.

 

America could get their butts kicked if China brings in a cheap Compact truck that does what most inner city and suburban people want. bed capacity of 1000lbs, towing of 2000lbs and no more. 

 

1982 Chevy Luv Diesel was 30 City/ 36 highway. http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Fuel/1982/Chevrolet/LUV

 

Just think how a compact truck with a modern diesel or CNG engine would rock in the High 30's low 40's or better.

[Stew]

 

 

The reason the mid-size truck market died is because the products were left to rot on the vine. That's why there were no sales. GM is proving the existence of a market now with worthy products.

Not exactly, a lot had to do with price.  At the time the difference between a midsize and fullsize was very small.  that could easily change now since fullsize trucks have gotten ridiculously expensive, that is where they have to be careful.  IMHO, if we see a midsize truck from FCA it will be a Jeep wrangler based truck or a shared platform between ram an Jeep. 

 

the interesting thing, they can do thise.  underneath the skin the 2WD and 4x4  3rd gen Dakotas were totally different trucks.  they could do the same for a Ram and Jeep truck.

I'm not buying (ahem) the pricing argument. Based on what I see up here a loaded Canyon/Colorado up here rings in about the same as a reasonably-equipped half-ton.

I think the production bottleneck Mopar is now facing as far as its trucks go is also a bit of a factor. Ram production is now maxed out, and I don't know how much flexibility Toledo would have to build a Wrangler-based pickup.

 

No, I was talking about the last gen Dakota, etc.  The Colorado really is a bargain and I was actually surprised at the amount of equipment the 34k Colorado I drove had.  And yes, prodcution could be the hickup.  Did they ever actually explain that discuised midsize mule spotted a few weeks ago?

[Drew Dowdell]

The GM trucks aren't selling on price, they are selling on smaller size.  There are plenty of people who would like to have a truck but don't want to wheel around the behemoths the 1/2-ton models have become. 

[Stew]

The GM trucks aren't selling on price, they are selling on smaller size.  There are plenty of people who would like to have a truck but don't want to wheel around the behemoths the 1/2-ton models have become. 

I believe it is selling on both aspects.  If it was a crappy truck, it wouldn't sell despite price and size.  i loved the Z71 I rove and it had basically everything I would want plus some.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

The GM trucks aren't selling on price, they are selling on smaller size.  There are plenty of people who would like to have a truck but don't want to wheel around the behemoths the 1/2-ton models have become. 

I believe it is selling on both aspects.  If it was a crappy truck, it wouldn't sell despite price and size.  i loved the Z71 I rove and it had basically everything I would want plus some.

 

 

Well... no... I feel that the GM trucks are rather expensive for their size.  As some have pointed out, full-size trucks aren't much more expensive.  The GMers are selling in-spite of their price... not because they are cheap. 

[Stew]

 

 

The GM trucks aren't selling on price, they are selling on smaller size.  There are plenty of people who would like to have a truck but don't want to wheel around the behemoths the 1/2-ton models have become. 

I believe it is selling on both aspects.  If it was a crappy truck, it wouldn't sell despite price and size.  i loved the Z71 I rove and it had basically everything I would want plus some.

 

 

Well... no... I feel that the GM trucks are rather expensive for their size.  As some have pointed out, full-size trucks aren't much more expensive.  The GMers are selling in-spite of their price... not because they are cheap. 

 

I still disagree.  The Colorado i drove was an extended cab Z71, it had all the power stuff, my-link, backup camera, tow package, locking rear, a few dealer add-ons (bright exhaust tip, yadded, yadda), and it still was only 34k.  price a silverado out with all this truck had and i would bet you are 10k more in price.  Heck, i have priced out a minimal options regular cab Z71 and sticker was over 40k and it didn't have everything the Colorado had.   I used to think they were overpriced myself, but GM has reall stuffed a LOT of content for the price in these trucks.  Another thing besides price and size is that these are such sublime driving trucks.  Super smooth, excellent ride, beautiful interior, etc, etc.  As I said, they have raised the bar. 

 

Anyways, back to the topic at hand.  If FCA does a midsize, they have to do the Wrangler based pickup.  There are people just salivating at this thing, especially paired with the Ecodiesel.  they can make a Dakota off the same platform with more traditional styling and higher focus on the on-road portion of things. 

[Robert Hall]

They could do a Pro Master or Pro Master City pickup w/ little investment, since Fiat makes pickups based on the vans they are based on.  It would be functional and utilitarian., with diesel and good mileage.  And it would be unique in the US market, not the usual predictable offering.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Drew Dowdell]

Totally agree on the Wrangler pickup, but I still think Ram needs something in this field besides a promaster based one.   I can already hear the reviews now about it being a FWD full size pickup if they did a Promaster pickup. 

[G. David Felt]

I still think Ram would do right to bring back a compact Ram 50 Pickup Truck!

[cp-the-nerd]

 

 

 

The GM trucks aren't selling on price, they are selling on smaller size.  There are plenty of people who would like to have a truck but don't want to wheel around the behemoths the 1/2-ton models have become. 

I believe it is selling on both aspects.  If it was a crappy truck, it wouldn't sell despite price and size.  i loved the Z71 I rove and it had basically everything I would want plus some.

 

 

Well... no... I feel that the GM trucks are rather expensive for their size.  As some have pointed out, full-size trucks aren't much more expensive.  The GMers are selling in-spite of their price... not because they are cheap. 

 

I still disagree.  The Colorado i drove was an extended cab Z71, it had all the power stuff, my-link, backup camera, tow package, locking rear, a few dealer add-ons (bright exhaust tip, yadded, yadda), and it still was only 34k.  price a silverado out with all this truck had and i would bet you are 10k more in price.  Heck, i have priced out a minimal options regular cab Z71 and sticker was over 40k and it didn't have everything the Colorado had.   I used to think they were overpriced myself, but GM has reall stuffed a LOT of content for the price in these trucks.  Another thing besides price and size is that these are such sublime driving trucks.  Super smooth, excellent ride, beautiful interior, etc, etc.  As I said, they have raised the bar. 

 

Anyways, back to the topic at hand.  If FCA does a midsize, they have to do the Wrangler based pickup.  There are people just salivating at this thing, especially paired with the Ecodiesel.  they can make a Dakota off the same platform with more traditional styling and higher focus on the on-road portion of things. 

 

 

I'm with you on this one. The Colorado/Canyon twins are priced right. They start just above $20k, you can get a capable V6 for $30k. The Silverado LT with a double cab starts at $35k. There's a perfectly reasonable gap in segment pricing, significantly more than people pay between compact, midsize, and fullsize cars. The difference between a $23k compact sedan and a $23k midsizer is vast, people make a choice for their priorities. The monthly sales prove there's minimal canibalizing between Chevy's truck models.

Edited June 9, 2015 by cp-the-nerd

[Stew]

 

 

 

 

The GM trucks aren't selling on price, they are selling on smaller size.  There are plenty of people who would like to have a truck but don't want to wheel around the behemoths the 1/2-ton models have become. 

I believe it is selling on both aspects.  If it was a crappy truck, it wouldn't sell despite price and size.  i loved the Z71 I rove and it had basically everything I would want plus some.

 

 

Well... no... I feel that the GM trucks are rather expensive for their size.  As some have pointed out, full-size trucks aren't much more expensive.  The GMers are selling in-spite of their price... not because they are cheap. 

 

I still disagree.  The Colorado i drove was an extended cab Z71, it had all the power stuff, my-link, backup camera, tow package, locking rear, a few dealer add-ons (bright exhaust tip, yadded, yadda), and it still was only 34k.  price a silverado out with all this truck had and i would bet you are 10k more in price.  Heck, i have priced out a minimal options regular cab Z71 and sticker was over 40k and it didn't have everything the Colorado had.   I used to think they were overpriced myself, but GM has reall stuffed a LOT of content for the price in these trucks.  Another thing besides price and size is that these are such sublime driving trucks.  Super smooth, excellent ride, beautiful interior, etc, etc.  As I said, they have raised the bar. 

 

Anyways, back to the topic at hand.  If FCA does a midsize, they have to do the Wrangler based pickup.  There are people just salivating at this thing, especially paired with the Ecodiesel.  they can make a Dakota off the same platform with more traditional styling and higher focus on the on-road portion of things. 

 

 

I'm with you on this one. The Colorado/Canyon twins are priced right. They start just above $20k, you can get a capable V6 for $30k. The Silverado LT with a double cab starts at $35k. There's a perfectly reasonable gap in segment pricing, significantly more than people pay between compact, midsize, and fullsize cars. The difference between a $23k compact sedan and a $23k midsizer is vast, people make a choice for their priorities. The monthly sales prove there's minimal canibalizing between Chevy's truck models.

 

This is all correct, if people were abandoning 1/2 tons for the midsizers we would be seeing decreasing Silverado sales instead of increased.   It is very interesting and i am sure other manufacturers are watching very closely here.