Cadillac News: Cadillac CT6 Reveals Itself In New Commerical

[smk4565]

Let's say the CT6 is high 190s in length, it would be a little bigger than a CLS or 6-series Gran Coupe or about the size of the LS460.   At that size it isn't competing with an S-class or 7-series and it is unlikely the would jump to S-class pricing level.  So we could probably assume this is more of a $65-75,000 car. With that size and price the CLS, A7, and 6-series are competitors, but none of those are big volume cars to begin with, and when the CT6 goes on sale, a new E-class will be on sale at the same time, with a new CLS 1 year after.

 

This is a lot of speculating, but I still have a hard time seeing what the CT6 matches up against, it is conventional sedan, not a 4-door coupe or fastback type car, and the size is in between medium and large.  Seems like they are between segments.  I believe the E-class will have more of a leap forward than the C-class did, which makes me wonder if the CT6 will be better than the E-class, let alone competing with the CLS, and for get the S-class, the CT6 won't contend with that.

[balthazar]

You supposing based on speculation.

What is known is the Avenir is 204" on the same platform. CT6 should be over 200".

CT6 is going to be a low-volume car.

 

But regardless, why are you equating overall length with MSRP???

[KevinW]

There was a tweet somewhere that it would be 8" longer than the CTS, which would place its length about a half inch shy of the Avenir's.

[Z-06]

You supposing based on speculation.

What is known is the Avenir is 204" on the same platform. CT6 should be over 200".

CT6 is going to be a low-volume car.

 

But regardless, why are you equating overall length with MSRP???

 

To find excuse to bash CT6.

 

Regardless, I am honestly tired of this troll. He brings mostly nothing to the forum other than running around circles chasing Mercedes/BMW/Audi's tail while moving the goal post. It is funny for a while to show him data and show he is wrong. But now it is adding nothing intelligent to the discussions as he repeats his arguments a few days later on any thread with Cadillac.

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't think the Avenir was on Omega fwiw. It is more of a styling study using a zeta car as a base.  I asked the question specifically during the Buick event in Detroit and got the "existing platform combination" answer. 

[balthazar]

^ OK… so again; we wait & see.

 

BTW, mercedees e-class sedan is 192" and the CLS is 194".

"That doesn't make any sense; the 'same car' yet one is $17000 more- no wonder 'no one' buys them."

[ZL-1]

Let's say the CT6 is high 190s in length, it would be a little bigger than a CLS or 6-series Gran Coupe or about the size of the LS460.   At that size it isn't competing with an S-class or 7-series and it is unlikely the would jump to S-class pricing level.  So we could probably assume this is more of a $65-75,000 car. With that size and price the CLS, A7, and 6-series are competitors, but none of those are big volume cars to begin with, and when the CT6 goes on sale, a new E-class will be on sale at the same time, with a new CLS 1 year after.

 

This is a lot of speculating, but I still have a hard time seeing what the CT6 matches up against, it is conventional sedan, not a 4-door coupe or fastback type car, and the size is in between medium and large.  Seems like they are between segments.  I believe the E-class will have more of a leap forward than the C-class did, which makes me wonder if the CT6 will be better than the E-class, let alone competing with the CLS, and for get the S-class, the CT6 won't contend with that.

I don't see it that way: I think that it will be sized between SWB and LWB versions of the German 3 flagships. The "not competing with S-Class" stuff comes from the fact that only the LWB S-Class is currently offered in the US.

Edited March 18, 2015 by ZL-1

[smk4565]

Which would make it about 203-204 inches long.  So are they going to price it in between and A8 and 7-series?  Because then they are competing with the German flagships, if they price it at $60k and make it that big they are competing with the Hyundaii Equus.

[Drew Dowdell]

It just doesn't look as big as an A8L or S-Class.

[G. David Felt]

Which would make it about 203-204 inches long.  So are they going to price it in between and A8 and 7-series?  Because then they are competing with the German flagships, if they price it at $60k and make it that big they are competing with the Hyundaii Equus.

 

You keep trying to fit everything into the German cookie cutter machine.

 

WHO CARES! If this is between the A8 & 7 series and sell's well in the 70 - 80K range then they found a sweet spot and I doubt it will be only competing with the Equus.

[smk4565]

The thing is who is going to buy it?  Current Cadillac buyers have been groomed to spend $45-55k on a sedan for the past 20 years, so is the person that bought a CTS 5 years ago going to trade it in on the CTS?  The group that has bought the DTS or XTS could care less about RWD, handling, weight savings, etc, and they aren't going to spend $80k on a car, if they wanted an expensive car they would have bought one in the past.   I think Cadillac is going to have a hard time moving buyers up the ladder, at least for the next 5-10 years. 

 

The other pathway to sales is to conquest the Germans and the Lexus LS460.  So if you don't fit into one of the existing segments, it could be hard to steal buyers that currently have a 7-series or A8.

 

The CT6 is interesting because Cadillac is going into new territory, I am curious to see the final product and even more curious to see how they price it.

[ZL-1]

Which would make it about 203-204 inches long.  So are they going to price it in between and A8 and 7-series?  Because then they are competing with the German flagships, if they price it at $60k and make it that big they are competing with the Hyundaii Equus.

I'm expecting prices to fall between A8 and 7-Series SWB models, yes.

[balthazar]

Unfortunately for the German brands, their owner loyalty numbers aren't great (generally in the low 30% range- which is partly the reason they're all moving downmarket), so there's PLENTY of people coming out of a MB/BMW/Audi looking for new model. This is yet another choice in the segment and as they say; choice is good! 

[Drew Dowdell]

Even today, Cadillac's interiors are equal or superior to the Asian competition.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I'd really have no issue standing the CTS up against this mess

[G. David Felt]

The asian interiors are just cut up mess for me.

 

The Audio interior has two strikes against it.

 

1) The stupid Floating Nave screen. This screams after thought to me. Audi and MB both have left plenty of what I consider after thoughts in their interiors. What is so hard about building the nav system into the dash?

 

2) Is this the current interior for real? This screams 1980 to me. A very dated look.

[smk4565]

Lexus interiors have gone really ugly, they do have build quality, but the designs are a disaster.  That Infiniti Q70 has been on market for a while and is showing its age, although that interior wasn't good when it was new either. Acura is hopeless, that is just a Honda interior with extra wood and leather.   But notice that Infiniti and Acura don't compete with the big Germans, and Lexus sells the LS460 V8 for less than a 6 cylinder A8 or 7-series.

[balthazar]

I can't get over that audi dash; FOUR differently-shaped HVA/C vents; really?? Makes one dizzy.

Look to the right, where the 'wood' ends in front of the passenger. Why does it taper upward like that; it aligns/flows with nothing!

So bizarre & random, such questionable design… yet I'm supposed to rave about audi interiors?   

[smk4565]

The engines are a 3.6 liter V6 with 335 hp @ 6800 rpm and 284 lb-ft @ 5300 rpm.   The ranger topper is the new 3.0 liter twin turbo V6 with 400 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque which Cadillac states is more powerful than an A7 or 740i.  Cadillac seems to forget those cars offer V8s and a V12 for the 7-series.  So the CT6 really doesn't bring any more power than a CTS or CTS v-sport does, I wonder if they price this car in the $55-65k range and just kill the XTS off.  Then you have ATS at $35k, CTS at $45k, CT6 at $60k. 

[Drew Dowdell]

The engines are a 3.6 liter V6 with 335 hp @ 6800 rpm and 284 lb-ft @ 5300 rpm.   The ranger topper is the new 3.0 liter twin turbo V6 with 400 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque which Cadillac states is more powerful than an A7 or 740i.  Cadillac seems to forget those cars offer V8s and a V12 for the 7-series.  So the CT6 really doesn't bring any more power than a CTS or CTS v-sport does, I wonder if they price this car in the $55-65k range and just kill the XTS off.  Then you have ATS at $35k, CTS at $45k, CT6 at $60k. 

 

The 3.0TT isn't the range topper. It's just the most powerful engine released at the moment.  The 3.6TT is almost a certainty and the 6.2 S/C is a possibility.

[smk4565]

The 3.6 TT and 6.2 S/C aren't really the hallmarks of refinement and quietness.  But I guess it is back to the parts bin.  Heaven forbid Cadillac develop their own V8, they haven't done that since 1993.

Edited March 21, 2015 by smk4565

[Drew Dowdell]

The 6.2 s/c isn't ever intended to be a quite nor subtle engine.. even the exhaust note at idle is designed to sound intimidating.  The 3.6TT is only in cars that wear the V-Sport badge. The Uprated 3.6TT is on a V-series.  In all cases, they are cars for people with a pulse.

 

If hushed is what you're looking for, get back into your LS600H sensory deprivation chamber and turn on the Lawrence Welk. 

 

Whatever you do, stop criticizing things that don't do what they weren't designed to do.  You're becoming a troll around here again and I'm about to start busting out the warning points again.

[Drew Dowdell]

So here's what I've dug up.

 

Expect the CT6 to be 203 inches long +/- 0.5 inches 

Expect the CT6 to weigh 3781 lbs in 3.6 RWD form and 3931 in 3.6 AWD form

 

Which means that it will be larger than the CLS and 6-series Grand Coupe by about 5 inches, yet it will be up to 300lbs lighter than either while having more horsepower.

 

It is shorter than the S-Class by 3 inches and lighter than by nearly 800lbs. (RWD v RWD)

 

It will be about the same length as the normal wheel base A8 and about 300lbs lighter (AWD v. AWD)

 

It will be about 3 inches longer than the 740i and about 600+ lbs lighter

[balthazar]

S-class is a bloated barge- isn't everything lighter than it?

 

3781 is LIGHT for a relative 'large' car. So, best power/weight ratio for a 6 in this class?

[G. David Felt]

The 3.6 TT and 6.2 S/C aren't really the hallmarks of refinement and quietness.  But I guess it is back to the parts bin.  Heaven forbid Cadillac develop their own V8, they haven't done that since 1993.

You need to go back to your Koolaid drinking MB Forums. You bust Cadillac for not having powerful motors and then when they do build and use them you bust them for not being refined. Your AMG MB crap is just that then, Crap since they have loud unrefined motors that are beat by GM motors. If you cannot compare Apple to Apple and accept that MB is not the best or Hallmark for everyone due to other companies willing to compete, you will never be able to make a fair argument to win people over.

 

Lets look at what you do, Cadillac delivers a competent auto and you move the goal post, Cadillac delivers a winning solution and you change the focus to be Apples to Orange comparison. Cadillac starts to change to beat your beloved MB point for Point and you throw it all out and turn 180 degrees the opposite way. 

 

You need to ask yourself, what is it really you HATE SO MUCH about Cadillac that you cannot see that some of their products truly beat MB?

 

Yes Cadillac as well as MB has built garbage auto's through out their history. There are good times and bad times. No one will ever be perfect.

 

If you cannot seem to accept that MB is not the perfect be all for the world and that they will never win over everyone and yes other companies even BMW,  Audi and even Cadillac or an Asian brand can build products that can beat MB you will never know peace. 

 

It is truly sad that you can never be happy for others cause you are not happy with yourself.

[ZL-1]

 

The engines are a 3.6 liter V6 with 335 hp @ 6800 rpm and 284 lb-ft @ 5300 rpm.   The ranger topper is the new 3.0 liter twin turbo V6 with 400 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque which Cadillac states is more powerful than an A7 or 740i.  Cadillac seems to forget those cars offer V8s and a V12 for the 7-series.  So the CT6 really doesn't bring any more power than a CTS or CTS v-sport does, I wonder if they price this car in the $55-65k range and just kill the XTS off.  Then you have ATS at $35k, CTS at $45k, CT6 at $60k. 

 

The 3.0TT isn't the range topper. It's just the most powerful engine released at the moment.  The 3.6TT is almost a certainty and the 6.2 S/C is a possibility.

 

I think it will be a NG 3.6L TT and a NG V8...

[smk4565]

So here's what I've dug up.

 

Expect the CT6 to be 203 inches long +/- 0.5 inches 

Expect the CT6 to weigh 3781 lbs in 3.6 RWD form and 3931 in 3.6 AWD form

 

Which means that it will be larger than the CLS and 6-series Grand Coupe by about 5 inches, yet it will be up to 300lbs lighter than either while having more horsepower.

 

It is shorter than the S-Class by 3 inches and lighter than by nearly 800lbs. (RWD v RWD)

 

It will be about the same length as the normal wheel base A8 and about 300lbs lighter (AWD v. AWD)

 

It will be about 3 inches longer than the 740i and about 600+ lbs lighter

Under 3800 lbs would be a remarkable feat, the 100% aluminum Jaguar XJ is 3,854 for a RWD V6.  I like the XJ, but even though it is lighter and cheaper than the German rivals it still doesn't sell.   It will take more than lightweight construction, the interior better be fabulous and I still think there has to be a V8.  But then also what happens to the CT6's weight when you put on V8, AWD, heated/cooled/massage/reclining seats at all 4 corners, a refrigerator in the trunk, etc?  It is going to be heavy too.

 

The Escalade is 300 lbs heavier than a GL550, 500 lbs heavier than a GL450, and it doesn't seem to matter, the Escalade sells just fine.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

So here's what I've dug up.

 

Expect the CT6 to be 203 inches long +/- 0.5 inches 

Expect the CT6 to weigh 3781 lbs in 3.6 RWD form and 3931 in 3.6 AWD form

 

Which means that it will be larger than the CLS and 6-series Grand Coupe by about 5 inches, yet it will be up to 300lbs lighter than either while having more horsepower.

 

It is shorter than the S-Class by 3 inches and lighter than by nearly 800lbs. (RWD v RWD)

 

It will be about the same length as the normal wheel base A8 and about 300lbs lighter (AWD v. AWD)

 

It will be about 3 inches longer than the 740i and about 600+ lbs lighter

Under 3800 lbs would be a remarkable feat, the 100% aluminum Jaguar XJ is 3,854 for a RWD V6.  I like the XJ, but even though it is lighter and cheaper than the German rivals it still doesn't sell.   It will take more than lightweight construction, the interior better be fabulous and I still think there has to be a V8.  But then also what happens to the CT6's weight when you put on V8, AWD, heated/cooled/massage/reclining seats at all 4 corners, a refrigerator in the trunk, etc?  It is going to be heavy too.

 

The Escalade is 300 lbs heavier than a GL550, 500 lbs heavier than a GL450, and it doesn't seem to matter, the Escalade sells just fine.

 

 

I'm going by various statements that Reuss and others have made.  He was very specific in the size and weight of the car relative to the CTS, so that is where I'm coming up with the numbers. He does say that the CT6 will be lighter than the CTS by about 54 lbs.  Assuming the same engines and powertrains, we can extrapolate the weight of the CT6. 

[balthazar]

The Escalade is 300 lbs heavier than a GL550, 500 lbs heavier than a GL450, and it doesn't seem to matter, the Escalade sells just fine.

By "fine", you mean handily outselling the GL, right?

[smk4565]

Escalade sold 30,500 last year, the GL sold 26,600.  It is not like a total blowout.  When the GL was new and the Escalade had been on market for a while, the GL outsold it.  Those two have gone back and forth for the past 5 years or so.  The Escalade is a product that Cadillac gets right, they give the target audience what they want, they use a V8, a word name, lots of luxury and bling.  I don't know why they don't apply some of those principles to the sedans.  I think a V8 Fleetwood sedan loaded with luxury will sell better than a V6 CT6.

 

There are some new big boys coming to the SUV market though, the Bentley, Rolls, BMW X7 and I think all 3 are expected to have 12 cylinder power.  I'd imagine Mercedes will put the V12 in a Maybach trim GL at that point.  The Escalade will outsell all those still, but it might lose some status as the biggest, most over the top SUV. 

[balthazar]

Like you mentioned; the Jag has light weight, V8s, nice interior and it does not sell. Of course, Jaguars have a long running association with poor engineering/assembly.

Still… perhaps -like the above allusion- it is NOT about not having a V8 @ launch…. no singular feature necessarily 'makes or breaks' a model's segment success. After all, doesn't BMW sell a ton more 740s than 750s? If I bother to notice, the 7 in front of me is always a 6-banger.

 

CT6 is NOT burdened by NOT having Particular Feature X. IE; if there is no V8 at launch, how it is 'deficient' competing against all the 740I 6-cylinder buyers?? 

[smk4565]

We also don't know the price of the CT6 yet either.   Just like when the ELR was discussed.  Had the ELR cost $49,000 it might have been a hit, but at $77,000 it is a total flop.  If the CT6 is like $55,000 it could be a hit, if they charge Escalade money for a base CT6, could be a total flop.

[balthazar]

ELR, as beautiful as many find it, needed to be a '2.0' over the Volt- that's been pretty well established.

 

CT6 is not comparable, and what little we do know, as far as the general criticism of the ELR went (performance), the CT6 (on paper) has handily covered.

740i weighs (a calculated) 380 lbs MORE & has 85 LESS HP. I'm not forseeing a "total Maybach" with the CT6… but a LOT of details remain to be seen. 

[G. David Felt]

Escalade sold 30,500 last year, the GL sold 26,600.  It is not like a total blowout.  When the GL was new and the Escalade had been on market for a while, the GL outsold it.  Those two have gone back and forth for the past 5 years or so.  The Escalade is a product that Cadillac gets right, they give the target audience what they want, they use a V8, a word name, lots of luxury and bling.  I don't know why they don't apply some of those principles to the sedans.  I think a V8 Fleetwood sedan loaded with luxury will sell better than a V6 CT6.

 

There are some new big boys coming to the SUV market though, the Bentley, Rolls, BMW X7 and I think all 3 are expected to have 12 cylinder power.  I'd imagine Mercedes will put the V12 in a Maybach trim GL at that point.  The Escalade will outsell all those still, but it might lose some status as the biggest, most over the top SUV. 

One I DOUBT V12's will be put into those Auto's. Europe has moved to more stringent emissions just as most of the rest of the world and even these high end luxury makers cannot continue to put out low mileage, heavy polluting v12's.

 

I suspect Twin Turbo V8's or V6 Hybrid systems. As so many have stated, people buying these auto's do not care or really know what is under the hood. They are just going after a badge.

 

You have stated many times MB and others that sold 4000 units to have blown out Cadillac, so why is this not considered a blow out?

 

Now since I felt something weird about your figures I actually spent the time going through each companies records to actually compare. So I added up ALL Mercedes-Benze SUV sales from their over priced G-Wagon on down and the numbers are a true BLOW OUT! These are Escalade Sales only which means standard, ESV and EXT. NO SRX included. But for MB I included all their SUV versions.

 

2014 Sales

Escalade - 30,522

SUV's - 13,325

 

2013 Sales

Escalade - 22,514

SUV's - 9927

 

2012 Sales

Escalade - 22,632

SUV's - 10,524

 

2011 Sales

Escalade - 25,503

SUV's - 25,701

 

2010 Sales

Escalade - 26874

SUV's - 20,946

 

2009 Sales

Escalade - 25,884

SUV's - 21,944

 

2008 Sales

Escalade - 39,710

GL - 58,579

 

So except for 2008, MB has NOT led sales over Escalade. So this is not a flip flop back and forth of who has the better Luxury SUV. Cadillac has clearly led the way since 2008. Prior to this it was a flip flop since Cadillac started the Luxury SUV market and MB came out, due to the Jurassic park movies and out sold it and then dropped behind and then picked back up but then as we hit our DEPRESSION Peak of 2009 dropped and never recovered.

[Drew Dowdell]

Escalade sold 30,500 last year, the GL sold 26,600.  It is not like a total blowout. 

 

It was only a partial year for the Escalade. There were a few scattered on dealer lots in April, but they took till mid summer to get into full swing.  They still can't build them fast enough to satisfy demand.  ATP on Escalade is up nearly $20k over the previous model. 

 

Escalade sold 30,500 in 8 months when it took Benz 12 months to sell 26k.  Yes.. for vehicles with $80k - $90k transaction prices... that's a blowout.

[smk4565]

All Mercedes SUVs?  Combined they sell like 100,000.  But the GL sold 26,000 in 2012 and 29,900 in 2013 which beat the Escalade (all trims combined). The Escalade outsold the GL by about 500 units in 2011, the Escalade beat it in 2014 and Escalade is ahead this year.   So as I said, they have gone back and forth.

 

The Bentley SUV will have the 500 hp twin turbo V8 standard, a 4.2 liter V8 diesel making 375-400 hp and over 625 lb-ft of torque, and the W12 from the Continental GT is expected to be an option.  The Rolls-Royce SUV will have a standard V12 Rolls only has V12 engines to pick from.  The BMW X7 is based on the Rolls, an optional 544 hp V12 from the 760 is expected,  no doubt a V8 or diesel inline six will make up the bulk of the sales though.

[smk4565]

 

Escalade sold 30,500 last year, the GL sold 26,600.  It is not like a total blowout. 

 

It was only a partial year for the Escalade. There were a few scattered on dealer lots in April, but they took till mid summer to get into full swing.  They still can't build them fast enough to satisfy demand.  ATP on Escalade is up nearly $20k over the previous model. 

 

Escalade sold 30,500 in 8 months when it took Benz 12 months to sell 26k.  Yes.. for vehicles with $80k - $90k transaction prices... that's a blowout.

 

I don't disagree that the Escalade is a successful product for Cadillac, it is usually 1 or 2 in sales in the segment and has been for the past 10 years, while stuff like the Navigator and LX570 have died on the vine.   And the Escalade commands a high price as you stated, if you can be the highest priced in the segment and best selling, you are doing something right. 

 

What I don't get is why Cadillac doesn't use the formula that has worked with the Escalade on its cars.  Instead we get alpha numerics, dull styling and the corporate V6.  And I get that Americans buy big trucks so it is easier to convert a Tahoe to an Escalade and get sales than it would be to convert a Chevy sedan to a Cadillac, in that regard Cadillac needs its own chassis. 

Edited March 21, 2015 by smk4565

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

Escalade sold 30,500 last year, the GL sold 26,600.  It is not like a total blowout. 

 

It was only a partial year for the Escalade. There were a few scattered on dealer lots in April, but they took till mid summer to get into full swing.  They still can't build them fast enough to satisfy demand.  ATP on Escalade is up nearly $20k over the previous model. 

 

Escalade sold 30,500 in 8 months when it took Benz 12 months to sell 26k.  Yes.. for vehicles with $80k - $90k transaction prices... that's a blowout.

 

I don't disagree that the Escalade is a successful product for Cadillac, it is usually 1 or 2 in sales in the segment and has been for the past 10 years, while stuff like the Navigator and LX570 have died on the vine.   And the Escalade commands a high price as you stated, if you can be the highest priced in the segment and best selling, you are doing something right. 

 

What I don't get is why Cadillac doesn't use the formula that has worked with the Escalade on its cars.  Instead we get alpha numerics, dull styling and the corporate V6.  And I get that Americans buy big trucks so it is easier to convert a Tahoe to an Escalade and get sales than it would be to convert a Chevy sedan to a Cadillac, in that regard Cadillac needs its own chassis. 

 

 

You defy all logic! You praise the one vehicle that is most closely related to Chevrolet and then say if only Cadillac's other vehicles weren't converted Chevies..... Well guess what?!  NONE OF CADILLAC'S CARS ARE!

 

ATS and CTS are both on the Alpha platform which is Cadillac only.

CT6 is on the Omega platform which is Cadillac only.  It is launching with at least 2, probably more, Cadillac only engines and Cadillac/Corvette only transmissions.

The XTS came first and then was stripped down to turn into the Impala, not the other way around.

The SRX isn't based on anything elsewhere in the GM organization.  It was built to share with the 9-4x which eventually died.

 

The XTS, CTS, and ATS are all available with Cadillac only engines for those who care about that sort of thing.

[balthazar]

^ "Yeah… well… what about the trunk mat? Mercedes uses a spun silk trunk mat and therefore…"

[G. David Felt]

All Mercedes SUVs?  Combined they sell like 100,000.  But the GL sold 26,000 in 2012 and 29,900 in 2013 which beat the Escalade (all trims combined). The Escalade outsold the GL by about 500 units in 2011, the Escalade beat it in 2014 and Escalade is ahead this year.   So as I said, they have gone back and forth.

 

The Bentley SUV will have the 500 hp twin turbo V8 standard, a 4.2 liter V8 diesel making 375-400 hp and over 625 lb-ft of torque, and the W12 from the Continental GT is expected to be an option.  The Rolls-Royce SUV will have a standard V12 Rolls only has V12 engines to pick from.  The BMW X7 is based on the Rolls, an optional 544 hp V12 from the 760 is expected,  no doubt a V8 or diesel inline six will make up the bulk of the sales though.

Stop trying to compare all of the world MB SUV sales to USA sales.

 

My numbers are from each company Only for USA and here Escalade beats them hands down. Escalade BLOWS OUT MB SUV's.

 

I even considered going North America as the Canada market shows that Escalade beats MB SUV's.

 

MB only wins when you compare Global MB SUV sales to US Sales.

[balthazar]

^ "Well that's fair because the GL uses ball bearing slides on the ashtrays." 

[smk4565]

I took the MB USA sales figures and GM sales figures off what is posted here and C & G, and 2 of the past 4 years the GL alone outsold the Escalade.

[Drew Dowdell]

^ "Well that's fair because the GL uses ball bearing slides on the ashtrays." 

 

But the CTS has motorized cup holder covers and electronic glove box release.

[balthazar]

"But the BMW 3/4-series outsold the ATS in Kalamazoo…."

[G. David Felt]

So how much of the CT6 will be electric motor driven inside the auto? Will there be anything that is manually manipulated?

[smk4565]

It should have the electronic door closers so the doors never slam. I imagine the only manual adjustable thing will be the rear view mirror, which was motorized on the 90s S-class but I think they went back to manual because that is sort of a pointless thing to motorize.

[hyperv6]

First thing we need to make clear is the CT6 is not going to be the Audi 8 or BMW 7 killer.

This car was the flag ship of those at Cadillac 5-6 years ago that thought this was enough to be the flagship or Cadillac. Well that all changes when the good guys won last summer and got GM to go all in and do Cadillac right. So at this point this car will be a the best car they have offered yet but not yet all that they need. GM has stuffed it with a lot of techno gadgets to make it a sort of a showcase for future tech we will see coming in all new models.

The CT6 is just another stepping stone to the future and will advance the cause but it is still not the destination. We are 5  years out on the all in GM Cadillac products that will compete head to head with the best. We will like this car but there is so much more yet to come now that those who are not the problem are in charge.

 

Keep in mind this is the car Mark Reuss had to argue over the door handles and those inside GM thought the cheaper ones were good enough. Mark and those who backed him have won but we will only see the patches they were able to do here.

 

I am really excited for the future as GM said this car is not meant to take on Europe head on. That is their way to tell us that this car is not where we are going to stop. They loaded up many tech features here but the same will be said for the Malibu as it will have many new tech features you never expected in a Chevy.

So you can get in a pissing match over names and features but lets really wait to see what the product GM finally fully committed to doing for Cadillac turn out to be. I find it exciting as GM has not really fully committed to a division like this in decades.

 

Ford is still having the battle of those who wanted to kill Lincoln and those who want to save it. They have yet to get that full commitment from Ford and will suffer till they do or die. Doing revamped FWD Fords marketed by a semi crazy actor is not going to advance them much. I think those that want to save Lincoln are pulling for Cadillac as it may just get Ford to support them when Cadillac pans out. There is too much money to be made in this segment and finally those inside GM have understood this. 12% volume and nearly 50% of the auto profits are hard to ignore.

 

[smk4565]

First thing we need to make clear is the CT6 is not going to be the Audi 8 or BMW 7 killer.

The CT6 is just another stepping stone to the future and will advance the cause but it is still not the destination. We are 5  years out on the all in GM Cadillac products that will compete head to head with the best.

 

So this is another stop gap product?  This is Cadillac's problem, the savior vehicle is always 5 years away.   This is shaping up to be a pricier XTS.

[hyperv6]

 

First thing we need to make clear is the CT6 is not going to be the Audi 8 or BMW 7 killer.

The CT6 is just another stepping stone to the future and will advance the cause but it is still not the destination. We are 5  years out on the all in GM Cadillac products that will compete head to head with the best.

 

So this is another stop gap product?  This is Cadillac's problem, the savior vehicle is always 5 years away.   This is shaping up to be a pricier XTS.

 

 

What the hell do you think it is when GM did not fully commit to doing the right thing last summer? Even a fool would understand that. Ehhh well never mind.

 

Well let me explain what the rest of us understand.

 

The old guard still had a presence at GM after the bail out. These people did not go away over night. Now they have been systematically retired or moved on as the new management has been taking over.  Lutz called these people Those who were the problem and those who were not the problem. Today those who were not the problem have gain control.

 

While this is not the home run it is not the XTS.

 

The XTS was all they had planned at the time of the bail out and it was a car that was pretty much done. GM plowed what money they had left into finish projects they had started like the Malibu,Cruze, Nox, XTS, ZL1 ETC as they did not want to go 5 years with no new product what so ever. This is what has happened at Chrysler and now they are how many years down the road with only updated old products and a couple rebodied Lancia.  It is also part of the reason why FCA is trying to find help today as they just do not have the money to do it at all.

 

GM stepped up and advanced their idea of where Cadillac was to have been places. That was beyond the FWD future but even Mark at that point could not get full backing to go beyond that. So to get to the next step Mark and the new people at Cadillac got GM to fully commit to go to the next level the one they needed to be at if they want to survive.

 

This is not a easy transformation or a cheap one but they finally have stepped up to the plat and offered to do it right. Sorry but it will take more time as you do not make the kind of cars they want over and this is a long term game.

 

Anyone with half a mind and a little knowledge knows that Cadillac is not going to turn around over night with one model. It will take years of new models, good marketing and then they can build the image they need. BMW did it in the 70's and 80's as they were crappy cars coming our of the 60's. Audi did it in the 90's and 00's after making crappy cars in the 70's and the set back they suffered in the 80's. Even Benz had up and down years in the last three decades with stellar product and cars best left forgotten. Anyone remember the small Cosworth 2.3-16. Nasty.

 

The problem is not that the savior  car is 5 years away the good thing is that they keep advancing where they are going. For you my friend your short sightedness is a glass half empty while mine is half full.

 

Unlike Lincoln and others  that remain stagnate and either not advancing or regressing Cadillac has been over the last 5 years been given the keys to it's future and they are now set to build the cars that they really could build if given the chance. This is a rare opportunity and they will be ok as they have the people to do it and the backing buy people willing for once to support it.

 

The new car will still advance the cause as while it is not all that they wanted or needed it will still be the best car they have built in decades and will still do well. While the present models are not perfect they are far from being poor cars. You would have a case for hating 5 more years if we still were building 8-6-4 models or any of the product of the 80's.

 

[smk4565]

Bankruptcy/bailout was 6 years ago, it takes 4 usually to design a car.  The cars coming for 2016 and beyond would have been started after the bailout.  Cadillac is obviously better off than Lincoln or Acura, and it is good that they are trying to go up the luxury ladder.  I am curious how the CT6 turns out.  I am just skeptical that they can pull it off, because they haven't really beat the imports in the $35-50,000 price range, going to $75,000+ or so where the imports dominate is like putting a Cadillac on sale in Europe and seeing what happens.

[hyperv6]

Bankruptcy/bailout was 6 years ago, it takes 4 usually to design a car.  The cars coming for 2016 and beyond would have been started after the bailout.  Cadillac is obviously better off than Lincoln or Acura, and it is good that they are trying to go up the luxury ladder.  I am curious how the CT6 turns out.  I am just skeptical that they can pull it off, because they haven't really beat the imports in the $35-50,000 price range, going to $75,000+ or so where the imports dominate is like putting a Cadillac on sale in Europe and seeing what happens.

 

Come on you are smarter than this or should be since you hang around the rest of us that know better.

 

The first car the XTS was started before the bail out shelved and then brought out to buy time.

 

The Alpha was started before the bail out but was not far along. It was mostly completed after the bail out and the ATS and CTS were done pretty much together as much as they could.

 

The CT6 was started about 4-5 years ago as a flag ship when GM was only willing to go this far. That all changed last summer so this is why GM now states 2020 as the start of the all in product they just approved and when they are willing to make a run at Europe.

 

As for how you determine how they beat the others needs to be adjusted. This and most Cadillac cars are no longer volume cars as Lexus or Acura. These cars selling at higher prices and larger profit margins do not need to meet the same volumes we used to see. To measure their success is how much profits they return not units sold.

The CT6 will be a car to take a step up from the XTS and will advance the CTS concept to a larger and more advanced car but not as far as GM has now set their sights.

 

The fact is this car was as good as they were willing to go. In the last 9 months they have revised their goals and finally got the unprecedented support of GM for their future.

 

As it is this car will not fail because there is really not a lot of expectations placed on it from GM. GM has down played this car and made no major promises of it taking Germany down. They have just stated that this car will be light and show new construction technics. It will feature many new uses of technology inside that will set the direction of things to come

 

This is a preview car for many technologies and things will move on from here. This as I said is a stepping stone and it just needs to do as the XTS did in holding the line up. It will do a better job then the XTS as it is a better car.

 

I am going conservative here and saying this car is a double not the home run. If it turns into a Triple all the better but either way this car will advance the efforts of Cadillac and will do no harm.

 

You seem to expect Cadillac to return to form in 1 year and with one model but that is fools gold. For sustained growth in this segment it takes time and continued good product. Each model and each year will bring gain in the profit column and that is where we measure success.

 

This is the segment you work smarter not harder. We are no longer selling Chevy and Buick bases Cadillac's anymore.

 

If anything you should just sit back and watch the next 5-10 years as it for once will be a joy to watch for once. Something many of us have never seen from GM in our life time where they have gone about doing things right and not taking the easy way out.

 

The other factor on the progress of the last 5 years is GM is doing more than fixing Cadillac. Even a company as large as GM can not revamp ever model and every brand at one time. The cost and the amount of man power needed would negate any gains they would make as they would have to cut corners like they did in the past.

The thing to take to heart is this is the car that they argued over the cost of the door handles. That is something that should have never been questioned in a flagship car. And now it won['t be as this is no longer the flag ship. Now if you want to settle here for this then go back to Lincoln.

 

As I clearly pointed out BMW and Audi took many models and many years to get were they are at. One model and one year did not do it for them either. Cadillac is at least competitive with them now and will have a chance to better them with the proper support. During this time they can repair the marketing that just changed and the dealers to better help win the public over. Also they can play a little in Europe to establish the channels needed to sell cars there and get it ready for the future.