Cadillac CT6 To have Aluminum Body and VSport Already Approved

[Cmicasa the Great]

Will the new Cadillac CT6 have the rakish, expressive styling of the Elmiraj show car, or will it be a conservative evolution of the luxury brand’s current design language? While those questions will linger probably until the CT6 is unveiled later in 2015, AUTOMOBILE has learned this about the sedan, which uses General Motors’ new Omega full-size rear-wheel-drive platform: It will have an aluminum body.

The Cadillac CT6, which will be a bit smaller than a Mercedes-Benz S-Class but larger than the midsize CTS, also will be the first to use an engine, or engines, from GM’s upcoming four-/six-/eight-cylinder family. We have learned that while a CT6 Vsport has been approved for production, there’s no word on a CT6-V yet, so some sort of turbocharged- or supercharged-six seems likely.

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1412-2016-ct6-cadillac-will-have-an-aluminum-body/  
 

Looks like the Ultra Engine Family may be back on as well. LOVING CADILLAC AND GM right now.

[G. David Felt]

I have read in other places that the CT6 will have nothing from the Elmiraj show car. Excited to hear about the aluminum body and lite weight. Be interesting to see if on this go around if a 4/6/8 engine can work for GM where the version from the 80's was a DOA.

[Cmicasa the Great]

I have read in other places that the CT6 will have nothing from the Elmiraj show car. Excited to hear about the aluminum body and lite weight. Be interesting to see if on this go around if a 4/6/8 engine can work for GM where the version from the 80's was a DOA.

 

 

 

No.. the GM’s upcoming four-/six-/eight-cylinder family they are referring to is a 4 cylinder, 6 cylinder, and 8cylinder exclusively for Cadillac. We are not taking about the 4/6/8 that was displacement on demand. GM has that licked and it works pretty flawlessly with just 8 to 4. These engines were the Ultras... They were shelved back in 2009 because of the BK and were developed to replace the Northstar

Edited December 24, 2014 by Cmicasa the Great

[Drew Dowdell]

it's not a 4/6/8 engine (that was an 8-6-4 anyway) it is that there will be 6 cylinder and 4 cylinder variants of the V8. GM already does variable displacement engines, but that isn't what they are talking about here.

Also, he posted this article today, but I think it is almost a certainty that the CT6 is going to be at NY and has been known for some time to be there. It won't be at chicago, that show has gotten a bit "small" in releases the past few years.

This article affirms my opinion that the CT6 is not going to be the flagship ultimately. It will be to the CTS what the A7 is to the A6.

[G. David Felt]

it's not a 4/6/8 engine (that was an 8-6-4 anyway) it is that there will be 6 cylinder and 4 cylinder variants of the V8. GM already does variable displacement engines, but that isn't what they are talking about here.

Also, he posted this article today, but I think it is almost a certainty that the CT6 is going to be at NY and has been known for some time to be there. It won't be at chicago, that show has gotten a bit "small" in releases the past few years.

This article affirms my opinion that the CT6 is not going to be the flagship ultimately. It will be to the CTS what the A7 is to the A6.

Thanks for the Clarity Drew. Exciting to see and read about when they do show it.

 

Happy Holidays to you and everyone else here.

[balthazar]

In that we know the CT6 is a sedan, it sure would be nice to read daydream comparisons to the Ciel rather than the ElMiraj coupe. 

[smk4565]

Aluminum body and Cadillac's own engine line are good news.  I'd rather see Cadillac do an inline six as opposed to a V6, for one they are better balanced and two it won't get confused with the V6 in a Chevy or Buick, because an inline six probably isn't fitting in those cars.  Although the Jaguar XJ and Audi A8 have an aluminum body and supercharged V6 and are the 2 worst sellers in the full size luxury sedan class, aside from the Maserati Quatroporte.  Cadillac should make a V12 for the CT6-V and an SUV above Escalade, unless they want to do an Escalde V to compete with the G65 AMG.

[ocnblu]

Aluminum body?  Yikes.

[G. David Felt]

Talked with my friend who runs Performance AutoBody here. They just finished getting one of their guys certified on Aluminum repairs for the Ford trucks. He told me he now feels it was a waste of time as the insurance companies are telling him they are focused on the replace the modular parts rather than repair items. At least he is ford certified for the new trucks, but wonders just how much body work will really be done with a list of prices and parts for replacing the bed, fender, door etc.

[balthazar]

Most steel bodywork is replaced rather than repaired, anyway. 

[Cory Wolfe]

Aluminum isn't really out of place in a flagship luxury sedan. The XJ and A8 have used it for years. 

[ocnblu]

I just took an online training course on repairing aluminum.  Not pretty AT ALL.

[hyperv6]

Aluminum is not an issue in this class and price range.

 

No matter how Ford tried to spin it now but there is added cost to buy and expense to repair but in a higher price range it is much easier to accept.  Most others in this segment are already there and the rest will have to follow soon as the reduction on mass is key to keeping a larger car alive into the future.

 

The thing is with the increase of the use of aluminum in this segment more shows will be better trained and they will have the proper tools to deal with the repairs by the time it gets to the more common cars.

 

The CTS already if I recall is using aluminum doors now.

 

As for Flagship this is only the temporary flagship as it too will be superseded in the future by a even higher grade car. So when you use the term flagship keep in mind the context it is being used and when you compare. Cadillac is climbing the ladder of the segment and they are not yet to the top rung and are just working their way up.

 

As for Aluminum it will be a learning experience for all. also I expect it will affect insurance in some ways as many areas of the car will have to be replaced not repaired as the lack of memory in Aluminum is key for the lack of some things not being able to be repairs as we do not.

 

I expect new technologies will come and strategies for dealing with it too as it increases in use. The bottom line is it is here and it is only going to become more common with time.

Edited December 26, 2014 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

yeah, I'm not even sure I would call it a flagship really.  It is just a higher level car for Cadillac to offer over the CTS.  The Escalade and CTS-V will still be the flagships for now.

 

That's not to say that I don't expect fantastic things from this car, but if Johan is already talking about a CT9... well then...

[hyperv6]

I am so sick of the over and misused term flagship.

 

I have been around for years and you never hear this term and each car was targeted to be best in it's segment. In days of old did you need to choose if the Eldorado as a flag ship of the Fleetwood? No.

 

This for now is going to be the largest and most advance Cadillac in a lineup that is being rebuilt. There is no need to tag each and every new large Cadillac as a Flagship until it really is the pinnacle car of where you are going.

Be it Cadillac, the media or even forums lets just hold the term till we get to where this is going as of now it is misleading and for many making the remake of Cadillac more confusing than it really needs to be.

[ocnblu]

I would like to see the CT6 supersede the XTS posthaste.

[hyperv6]

It will. The XTS is only going to be around for fleet or livery once it arrives. How long that last I am not sure with the rumors of Oshawa closing. It may be up to the CAW on if it lives or dies.

The XTS will essentially be the Captiva of  Cadillac.

[Drew Dowdell]

I would like to see the CT6 supersede the XTS posthaste.

 

My guess is that it moves production to the Lacrosse line and becomes a livery only vehicle... which is an utter shame because it is a fantastic vehicle especially in VSport form... it just isn't the image Cadillac is shooting for and I understand that.

[hyperv6]

You hit the nail on the head,  This is where Cadillac was going to go and now they are now going for not good enough but the best. .

 

I still do not think we will lose the heart and soul of the XTS. I have considered some of it could move to a new Impala model or even the new class leading Buick as the TT turbo would better fit them as would the AWD.

 

There is a lot more going on at GM right now than they are letting on about. Watch the peripheral moves and it may tell a lot of what may happen.

The New Rule Of GM. For ever action there is a equal or greater reaction that will result from it.

Edited December 27, 2014 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

You hit the nail on the head,  This is where Cadillac was going to go and now they are now going for not good enough but the best. .

 

I still do not think we will lose the heart and soul of the XTS. I have considered some of it could move to a new Impala model or even the new class leading Buick as the TT turbo would better fit them as would the AWD.

 

There is a lot more going on at GM right now than they are letting on about. Watch the peripheral moves and it may tell a lot of what may happen.

The New Rule Of GM. For ever action there is a equal or greater reaction that will result from it.

 

The interesting thing about Buick is that once the new Verano arrives (not the pending refresh, but the all-new one), they will likely have a lineup where 100% of the models have AWD optional.  This could be an interesting marketing standpoint for Buick.

 

Edit: Doh! Forgot one coming model that won't get AWD for a while.... oh well... so much for that idea. 

[smk4565]

yeah, I'm not even sure I would call it a flagship really.  It is just a higher level car for Cadillac to offer over the CTS.  The Escalade and CTS-V will still be the flagships for now.

 

That's not to say that I don't expect fantastic things from this car, but if Johan is already talking about a CT9... well then...

They need a car to offer higher levels of luxury than the Escalade.  Part of Cadillac's problem is a dressed up Tahoe is their best vehicle and a CTS with a Corvette engine is their other.  You can't rely on Chevy parts to go against the world's best, you need a little better.  So my hope is the CT6 brings luxury and technology that surpasses any of their current line.  And perhaps a CT8, or CT9 will come along to set a new standard.  The Escaldade has been a bright spot for them, they need to pull some of those styling cues into a smaller crossover so you have Escalade feel, but at $50k.  Sort of what Land Rover did with the Evoque, you create Range Rover feel at a lower price point.

[smk4565]

 

I would like to see the CT6 supersede the XTS posthaste.

 

My guess is that it moves production to the Lacrosse line and becomes a livery only vehicle... which is an utter shame because it is a fantastic vehicle especially in VSport form... it just isn't the image Cadillac is shooting for and I understand that.

 

But isn't a CTS a better vehicle?  The XTS as a livery only vehicle makes sense, it serves that market and protects the "real" Cadillacs so to speak from fleet sales.  The market is moving, and if Cadillac wants to go on this quest after the Germans they need to build an image and the XTS doesn't build the right image.

[Drew Dowdell]

It depends on what a customer considers better. I prefer the comfort ride of the air Springs on the XTS and on the VSport model, a quick button push will tighten up the magnetic ride control to be as tight as the CTS. Only on the track would you find any difference between the two in performance mainly owing to the XTS's awd and CTS's lack of it.

I also prefer the room of the XTS. Nothing wrong with a CTS, the XTS is just more me.

[balthazar]

They need a car to offer higher levels of luxury than the Escalade.  Part of Cadillac's problem is a dressed up Tahoe is their best vehicle and a CTS with a Corvette engine is their other.  You can't rely on Chevy parts to go against the world's best, you need a little better.  So my hope is the CT6 brings luxury and technology that surpasses any of their current line.  And perhaps a CT8, or CT9 will come along to set a new standard.  The Escaldade has been a bright spot for them, they need to pull some of those styling cues into a smaller crossover so you have Escalade feel, but at $50k.  Sort of what Land Rover did with the Evoque, you create Range Rover feel at a lower price point.

^ Hard to get more ignorant than this.

 

 

But isn't a CTS a better vehicle?  The XTS as a livery only vehicle makes sense, it serves that market and protects the "real" Cadillacs so to speak from fleet sales.  The market is moving, and if Cadillac wants to go on this quest after the Germans they need to build an image and the XTS doesn't build the right image.

Funny how mercedes requires no "protection" from taxi sales, but Cadillac "needs" such from black car sales. Ignorance again.

[smk4565]

 

But isn't a CTS a better vehicle?  The XTS as a livery only vehicle makes sense, it serves that market and protects the "real" Cadillacs so to speak from fleet sales.  The market is moving, and if Cadillac wants to go on this quest after the Germans they need to build an image and the XTS doesn't build the right image.

Funny how mercedes requires no "protection" from taxi sales, but Cadillac "needs" such from black car sales. Ignorance again.

 

Mercedes doesn't have the fleet sales here, and in Europe it doesn't hurt them.  American and Japanese luxury makes have not made any impact on Europe.  Mercedes is strong in China also, they are posting record sales and record profits year after year.  Cadillac has a fragile image, a lot of luxury buyers in the USA see Cadillac as the old person's brand still.  The XTS has an old person's image, it should be turned into a Park Avenue Buick, let them use that for the livery car even.   Cadillac should have 2 retail sedans that cost the same though, that doesn't make sense.

[balthazar]

• Likewise, Cadillac livery /  black car sales don't hurt them in the U.S. or China. This segment does not look to Buick for these vehicles; to push the segment over to Buick would be another abandonment of a (small) demographic. Besides, some folk have continued to say 'Cadillac should be Cadillac and not follow the German twins' and the XTS does just that.

 

• Saying Cadillac has an 'old man's image' when MB has a mere 5 yr less ABA is ignorant. MB is just as much an old man's car (except that metric is accelerating whereas Cadillac's is falling).

 

• "BESTEST SAHLES EVAR" is the harbinger of luxury degradation; there is no exclusivity when there's a few mercedes' in every parking row at Wal-Mart. In Jersey, they are as commonplace as nissans. Besides, a lot of luxury buyers see MBs (and BMWs) as the prick-owner brand still.

 

• Having 2 sedans at the same relative price points gives options to the buyer- that's a great thing. But MB doesn't make sense here either- the C63 and the CLS sedans start at the same price, too.

[hyperv6]

I have said for a long time that Buick was suited tyo be the lower end Audi Challenger.

 

Their key is AWD and price it to where it is still a great car but under cuts the Germans. The Regal GS points this out. But the trick is they need to show in all their new models they are worth the price. They too have to earn their place just as Cadillac to undo the damage of the last 30 years less a few models.

[hyperv6]

The fact is Fleet sales here are easy money, Ford made billions off the Town Car when no one outside the livery companies cared. The key is to do it right and protect the company image and protect the buyers of the CTS and other models.

 

Benz does not fleet sale here but they do in Europe with police cars and taxis. But they have been in that segment for years. They do not do it here as they only want the luxury image here. In Europe they are not seen just as luxury only.

 

As for Buick here stop with the old names and images. This is what you want people to forget as they are not positive for growing the segment. You want to hit the people not buying Buick not the few that are.

As for Europe Americans will likely never be the dominate car in the market. But with that said they need to chunk out a solid segment where they can survive and hold a profitable presents. They can gain ground but you can not do it on the outside looking in. You have to get in and build your reputation and keep it profitable. That is the win.

[balthazar]

Cadillac has been in the black car / livery segment for what- 80 years?? It's certainly not a problem for the brand.

 

I used to see (subtle) livery DTS's running around- most folk wouldn't have recognized them. I've yet to see a confirmed livery XTS- they all look like private cars. That's the BEST way to utilize commercial sales; high-end cars that don't look it, rather than cheap-assed, stripped taxi cabs.

Edited December 29, 2014 by balthazar

[Drew Dowdell]

The only fleet(wood?) XTS I've seen, the primary passenger didn't care about brand perception anymore....

 

[hyperv6]

I like that.

 

That picture well represents what Cadillac is trying to over come in more ways than one.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

But isn't a CTS a better vehicle?  The XTS as a livery only vehicle makes sense, it serves that market and protects the "real" Cadillacs so to speak from fleet sales.  The market is moving, and if Cadillac wants to go on this quest after the Germans they need to build an image and the XTS doesn't build the right image.

Funny how mercedes requires no "protection" from taxi sales, but Cadillac "needs" such from black car sales. Ignorance again.

 

Mercedes doesn't have the fleet sales here, and in Europe it doesn't hurt them.  American and Japanese luxury makes have not made any impact on Europe.  Mercedes is strong in China also, they are posting record sales and record profits year after year.  Cadillac has a fragile image, a lot of luxury buyers in the USA see Cadillac as the old person's brand still.  The XTS has an old person's image, it should be turned into a Park Avenue Buick, let them use that for the livery car even.   Cadillac should have 2 retail sedans that cost the same though, that doesn't make sense.

 

 

Watch out SMK. Here in Pittsburgh more and more black car services are using E-classes for airport duty.  I just saw two brand new E-classes with the transportation permit sticker on the bumper this morning on the way into downtown. 

 

The XTS doesn't have an old-person's image... it has almost no image at all. It is relatively unknown to anyone outside of automotive forums.  GM does next to zero advertising on it.

[smk4565]

The image problem lies more in the Cadillac brand name than any single model probably.

[balthazar]

Well which is it? You've adamantly mentioned a laundry list of Cadillac so-called 'problems' all along , now you're just going to shrug and point to a single intangible? (Of course, by tomorrow, it'll be right back to the laundry list.) 

 

IMO, 'Cadillac' is minorly tarnished, and a major chunk of that is a few individuals continually harping that it's an "image problem", perpetuating the rumor.

For example; 15 years ago Cadillac had as it's leading 'enthusiast' car: the uninspired Catera. Today we have the CTS-V (or ATS-V). That's light years ahead of 1999, yet the bleating of the whiners is no less abated. It's always 'But– but– but– there's an IIMMAAGGEE PPRROOBBLLEEM!' as if there can never NOT be 'huge problems' with Cadillac, no matter what they do. Somehow, this is seemingly all lost on all the consumers of V cars- wonder how that could be?

 

Image is built on the back of product. I read elsewhere from a self-proclaimed, master-degreed marketer on the West Coast all the time how it's image first, product second, but you cannot market an image without a tangible product. Image if Apple only ever TALKED about successive iPhones but never manufactured any.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well which is it? You've adamantly mentioned a laundry list of Cadillac so-called 'problems' all along , now you're just going to shrug and point to a single intangible? (Of course, by tomorrow, it'll be right back to the laundry list.) 

 

IMO, 'Cadillac' is minorly tarnished, and a major chunk of that is a few individuals continually harping that it's an "image problem", perpetuating the rumor.

For example; 15 years ago Cadillac had as it's leading 'enthusiast' car: the uninspired Catera. Today we have the CTS-V (or ATS-V). That's light years ahead of 1999, yet the bleating of the whiners is no less abated. It's always 'But– but– but– there's an IIMMAAGGEE PPRROOBBLLEEM!' as if there can never NOT be 'huge problems' with Cadillac, no matter what they do. Somehow, this is seemingly all lost on all the consumers of V cars- wonder how that could be?

 

Image is built on the back of product. I read elsewhere from a self-proclaimed, master-degreed marketer on the West Coast all the time how it's image first, product second, but you cannot market an image without a tangible product. Image if Apple only ever TALKED about successive iPhones but never manufactured any.

 

^^^  Still can't read a CTS/CTS-V/ATS review without the Cimmaron or Catera or 8-6-4 being brought up. 

I imagine it will be the same if Cadillac ever offers a diesel... 

 

"OMG!!! THE 1977 DIESELS WERE TEH SUCK!!@!"

[hyperv6]

The fact is Cadillac's image is very damaged and will take time to repair one model at a time. As of now they are making progress but we are early in a game they just recently ramped up to higher expectations.

 

The bottom line on the XTS is this. Cadillac had little new product inline other than the Alpha platform at the time of the bail out. Prior to the bail out GM plowed a lot of the money they did have left into products they could finish once out of the bail out.

These cars are the XTS, Impala, SS, ZL1, Malibu and a few others. Most of them where as the GM rep told me put on the shelf is their term.  This was done to give them product in the short term when they were short in showrooms.

GM could have gone much like Chrysler Fiat and had little new product for 5 years or have at least something.

 

In the case of the XTS they got the business case approved with the car being used in fleets and Livery to help protect the CTS and ATS resale values and these cars from being fleeted.

 

There was no real long term plans for this car other than this simple short term deal. It put product in the showroom and took a bullet for the other models in resale.

Keep in mind back in 08 when GM showed a bunch of new product they had plans for to the media but they could not tell about. This was one of the cars as well as the Malibu.

 

Note the ZL1 originally was the Z/28 but that was changed later in the game by Mark Ruess.

 

Just as the CT6 was going to be the top model but now that they have advanced plans for a much better line up it now is no longer the panicle for the future. It will be a upgrade over the CTS and a great car but not the end all be all flag ship for the future.

Edited December 29, 2014 by hyperv6

[Drew Dowdell]

Well another reason for the XTS was that when the 9-5 died, there was a lot of dev work already done and paid for but a good chunk of the amortization evaporated with Saab. They had to push the XTS into production.  Aside from not having the DTS and STS anymore, they still had to try and make some money on the platform that they already invested in. 

[smk4565]

So it goes back to product planning and poor use of resources and/or money.  The Malibu is still terrible 7 years later, even Hyundai/Kia have passed it up, at least back in 2004 Hyundai/Kia were nobody, and a mediocre Malibu got some sales.  But the XTS goes back to a problem of GM, and that is build the car that fits the business case, or fits what was already done, and don't build the car the market wants.

 

Mercedes is spending $2 billion on an electric car platform to go after Tesla it seems, and why do that rather than just make and Electric E-class?  Because you can do it from scratch better than you can retro-fitting an E-class into an electric car and because the market wants purpose built electric cars, with electric car proportions.  No one wants an electric B-class, but they buy that BMW i3 and Tesla Model S up.

 

Same thing goes for Cadillac, I have said for years they need their own chassis/engines/mechanics/interiors, because they have to build what the market is demanding.  Cadillac often tries to build out of the GM parts bin, then convince people to buy the product they aren't really asking for.

 

Another bold prediction:  The next Mercedes-AMG E63 will be a plug in hybrid.  The AMG hybrid drivetrain is already under development, they just haven't decided where to use it.

[hyperv6]

This is what I see GM doing with the new commitment.

 

If you want Cadillac to be the standard of the world in more than slogan you must then set the standard and be the standard all others are compared too. Right now they are being compared to the Germans. If you want to win in this segment you need the Germans be compared to use.

[balthazar]

...Cadillac's image is very damaged...

 

Where & how is this quantified? Please don't tell me 'sales volume' is the source.

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

But isn't a CTS a better vehicle?  The XTS as a livery only vehicle makes sense, it serves that market and protects the "real" Cadillacs so to speak from fleet sales.  The market is moving, and if Cadillac wants to go on this quest after the Germans they need to build an image and the XTS doesn't build the right image.

Funny how mercedes requires no "protection" from taxi sales, but Cadillac "needs" such from black car sales. Ignorance again.

 

Mercedes doesn't have the fleet sales here,

 

Yes they do actually. Aside from the obvious Sprinter sales, E-Classes and S-classes are making up an ever growing percentage of Black Car sales.