November 2014: General Motors Co.

[William Maley]

GM Posts Its Best November U.S. Sales Since 2007

• Best November ever for Chevrolet Spark, Cruze and Equinox
• Best November for GMC since 2001
• Best November for Buick since 2003

DETROIT – General Motors Co. (NYSE: GM) dealers in the United States delivered 225,818 vehicles last month for the company’s best November sales in seven years. Total sales were up 6 percent compared to a year ago, retail sales were up 5 percent and fleet deliveries were up 11 percent.

 

GM estimates that the seasonally adjusted annual selling rate (SAAR) for light vehicles in November was 17.1 million, the highest November SAAR since 2003.  Calendar year to date, the SAAR is 16.5 million units, which is the upper end of the 16.0 million – 16.5 million range GM forecasted at the beginning of the year.

 

Demand in November was robust for everything from smaller cars and crossovers to big trucks – all segments where GM is strong. The Buick brand had its best November since 2003. GMC had its best November since 2001, and the GMC Sierra had its best November sales ever. 

 

At Chevrolet, the Spark, Cruze and Equinox also had their best November sales ever, Silverado had its best November since 2006 and Traverse had its best November since 2010.

 

“The buzz around Black Friday helped drive strong showroom traffic but there was a lot more at work in the market,” said Kurt McNeil, U.S. vice president of Sales Operations. “More people have jobs and job security, their wages are starting to increase, household wealth is growing and low pump prices look like they’re here to stay through 2015. All of this helped deliver an exceptional month and it will help keep auto sales at very healthy levels going forward.”

 

Additional November Highlights (vs. 2013 except as noted)

 

Chevrolet:

• The Cruze was up 26 percent, Spark was up 64 percent, Sonic was up 3 percent.
• Silverado was up 24 percent, Tahoe was up 10 percent and Traverse was up 14 percent.
• Dealers delivered 2,366 all-new Colorados, ahead of plan, with a low retail days supply of 21 days.

GMC:

• GMC was up 23 percent.
• The Sierra was up 57 percent and the Yukon was up 14 percent.
• The Terrain was up 13 percent and 854 all-new Canyons were delivered, which is ahead of plan.

Buick:

• Buick was up 27 percent.
• Encore had a 72 percent sales increase, LaCrosse was up 71 percent and Verano was up 22 percent.

Cadillac:

• Cadillac Escalade deliveries were up 75 percent, with the retail days supply very tight at 16 days.
• Sales of the CTS sedan increased 18 percent.

Average Transaction Prices (ATPs):   

• GM has now posted 26 consecutive months of year-over-year average transaction price (ATP) increases on the strength of new pickup trucks, SUVs and Cadillacs.
• ATPs were a record $35,600, according to J.D. Power PIN mid-month estimates, up $790 per unit compared to October and up $3,100 versus a year ago.

Incentives:

• Month over month, GM reduced incentive spending as a percentage of ATPs more than the industry average, according to PIN mid-month estimates, and the company has had the lowest incentives of all domestic automakers on an ATP basis in nine of the last 11 months.
• GM’s November incentive spending as a percentage of ATPs was 10.4 percent, down 1.2 points month over month, while industry average spending was 9.6 percent of ATP, down 0.1 points.
• In November 2013, GM’s incentive spending was 10.2 percent of ATP, and the industry average was 9.7 percent.

Fleet and Commercial:

• Fleet sales were up 11 percent.
• Commercial sales were up 1 percent, marking the 13th consecutive month of year-over-year growth.
• Large SUV commercial fleet sales were up 87 percent and full-size pickup commercial sales were up 47 percent.

[smk4565]

Cheap gas = Sales for full size pickups and SUVs.

 

What is a little scary is 1/3 of Chevys are fleet sales, and you have to figure a lot of that % is on the Malibu, Cruze, and Silverado, if the Malibu is 40-50% fleet, the retail sales on that car could be 6,000 a month.  GM is really weak in that key segment.

 

XTS looks to prove that FWD luxury cars can't last, sales of the XTS are starting to look like how the DTS was selling 5 years ago.  That is another one and done poduct.

[2QuickZ's]

de Nysschen has his work cut out for him at Cadillac.  Those sales numbers are ugly.  The product is competitive so the sales are a little baffling.  I guess it is going to take quite a while to earn the reputation back in the badge snob segment.  I guess for now I'll give them props for sticking to their guns on pricing rather than chasing sales through deep discounts.  Still, they are throwing around some pretty low lease numbers for an AWD ATS employee lease here in the metro Detroit area.  Seems like a saw an add for $1700 down, $279/month on a low mileage 36 month lease.

 

The only other one of their big drops that surprises me is the Impala.  That is a damn nice car that has gotten loads of positive press.  I'm a little surprised to see BOTH the XTS and Impala down.  Could it be Chrysler's blowout sale on the leftover '14 L cars?

[regfootball]

I blame Johan for not being pragmatic here. You've got to build something back here. The ATS and CTS are fantastic cars but are both flawed in ways that keeps them from being sold. One, obviously the pricing and packaging is off. You can't force the market up in price until you earn it. You need some volume to support healthy dealerships (unless he is deliberately starving the dealerships so he can cut them). I don't care if his model is to have more global sales, you still need a certain market penetration in the US. So either put more stuff in the car for the price or drop some pricing on her upper priced ones and get them in drivers hands. Get the ATS out there to snag A3 and CLA buyers. Offer the aggressive leases the Germans do. Try to build certified sales and product to boost your residuals.

Two, styling and size. I like the new crop of caddies but admit they are all flawed in some way. And there is no Cadillac sedan available to those who want a large car. Johan doesn't care but if that's the case why is the S class so successful ? Comfort is a luxury these days. What's wrong with leg room?

They need to build the ATS-L body here with the extra legroom. Fix the ugly parts of the CTS. Get three all new crossovers pronto. Incentives need to be pushed to sell XTS to add volume. No one is looking at the XTS to carry the performance torch anyways, might as well offer it as a great value Cadillac and a bridge car until CT6 launch results are known. Improve all the interiors to keep up with the Audi's and Mercedes.

There's about 100 things you could say about Cadillac but not enough time.

Edited December 3, 2014 by regfootball

[G. David Felt]

I blame Johan for not being pragmatic here. You've got to build something back here. The ATS and CTS are fantastic cars but are both flawed in ways that keeps them from being sold. One, obviously the pricing and packaging is off. You can't force the market up in price until you earn it. You need some volume to support healthy dealerships (unless he is deliberately starving the dealerships so he can cut them). I don't care if his model is to have more global sales, you still need a certain market penetration in the US. So either put more stuff in the car for the price or drop some pricing on her upper priced ones and get them in drivers hands. Get the ATS out there to snag A3 and CLA buyers. Offer the aggressive leases the Germans do. Try to build certified sales and product to boost your residuals.

Two, styling and size. I like the new crop of caddies but admit they are all flawed in some way. And there is no Cadillac sedan available to those who want a large car. Johan doesn't care but if that's the case why is the S class so successful ? Comfort is a luxury these days. What's wrong with leg room?

They need to build the ATS-L body here with the extra legroom. Fix the ugly parts of the CTS. Get three all new crossovers pronto. Incentives need to be pushed to sell XTS to add volume. No one is looking at the XTS to carry the performance torch anyways, might as well offer it as a great value Cadillac and a bridge car until CT6 launch results are known. Improve all the interiors to keep up with the Audi's and Mercedes.

There's about 100 things you could say about Cadillac but not enough time.

WOW, You really must not have looked at a Cadillac recently. Interiors are far ahead of anything MB, BMW or Audi does.

 

Ugly parts? you mention they are fantastics cars but flawed and no clear details. Be Specific rather than another SMK who just pounds the GERMANS are Superior and moves the goal post when Cadillac is beating them. You have plenty of time and will not loose out on posting so take the time to state specific issues you feel hurt Cadillac. Back this up with facts of comparison against the German brands.

 

Audi are re-badged VW auto's so how does that not make them at best a Buick rival more than a Cadillac rival?

 

Since you state there are 100 things, post some of them.

 

The only thing I will agree with you on is that they need to sell the ATS - L edition here in the states. Create a CTS - L edition also.

[smk4565]

Cadillac needs more crossovers for sure, 2 SUV lineup doesn't cut it, but let's just look at the current cars. ATS and CTS are selling under 2,500 a month. 3-series is 14,000, C-class was over 9,000, E-class and 5-series most months are near 5,000. So there must be flaws in the ATS and CTS, they have a lower price and deeper discounts but still no sales.

For specifics, brand image is #1, most Cadillacs have a 6 speed when the Germans have had 7 or 8 for years, no diesels, no hybrids other than ELR when Lexus has a hybrid on everything, lack of body styles too. Then you have the 3.6 V6 which is dated, the Germans all have turbo/super charged sixes with much more torque. Cadillac interiors still need to go up a level, gotta dump CUE.

Impala at this time last year probably had some fleet sales of the previous model left over, Impala sold over 9,000 cars that is good for a full size sedan, that is a shrinking segment and the Avalon and Taurus never sell that well.

[Drew Dowdell]

What bothers me about the Impala number is that they don't break out Impala v. Impala Limited.  What if Hertz pulled back on Impala Limited purchases this month? It tells me nothing about how the retail Impala is doing.

[ZL-1]

What bothers me about the Impala number is that they don't break out Impala v. Impala Limited.  What if Hertz pulled back on Impala Limited purchases this month? It tells me nothing about how the retail Impala is doing.

Exactly.

 

The ATS is really hurting...

[Cmicasa the Great]

Cadillac sales will rise. They are down now for reasons obvious to a two year old, and price isn't 100% it.

The CTS is the only vehicle that is raised higher in price, and the simple fact of the matter is that in November 2013 the CTS was not only cheaper.. but running clearance prices in anticipation for the current one. On top of that, Cadillac had a Coupe and a real run of CTS-Vs, both coupe and sedan to sell. They simply DON'T have that with the new model yet.

 

The XTS is down because the CTS exists in its exact price point. Get used to that sales number because I anticipate the CT6 to fall right around those numbers, or slightly less despite it's probable $72K+ price start. XTS will either be gone or sent mostly to fleet.

 

The SRX?? That is your real culprit in sales fall. It is the absolute oldest car they have, now going on 6 years and the only CUV in the line-up while every other luxo maker has at least 3.

 

CTS MSRP is perfectly fine. It is selling in numbers that are indicative of the variants, or lack of.. since the previous model sold 30% in coupes (yes.. 30% of all the CTS sales for Gen2 were for Coupes which are no being sold currently for GEn3).

 

2011 Coupe 27%
2011 Sedan 70%
2011 Wagon 3%

2012 Coupe 27%
2012 Sedan 70%
2012 Wagon 4%

2013 Coupe 29%
2013 Sedan 68%
2013 Wagon 3%

2014 Coupe 29%
2014 Sedan 69%
2014 Wagon 2%

 

For all intents the CTS is taking over the position of the STS.

 

As it stands last month the CTS outsold the A6, clobbered the GS and was within striking distance of the 5series. No props???

 

ATS is taking over where the CTS was and there is no reasonable person who should think that a new to the fold car should be selling the same amount as the market leading 3series. BTW. NO one wants to bring up that the C-Class is selling off previous models with $10 K on the hood.

 

I think they are taking a page from Audi, but that's not good enough for the astute commentators here. Take this for what its worth (GOLD). If Cadillac were selling 12 cars like Audi, they too would be up 20%, (like Cadillac was last year). Altho if Caddy was up 20% on their current sales that means that they would be selling YTD above Audi. Why is no one dogging Audi for selling only 162K cars YTD with 12 vehicles, but beating Caddy to the ground for selling 154K on 6 cars? Double Standard much?

 

Bottom line is that Cadillac is down because of lack of product, revolutionary change to a 112 year business, a corporate BK 5 years ago that made management re-prioritize, and American self loathing of.. well anything American. All that, and Cadillac is still as prestigious as at the very least Jaguar and Lexus, with more heritage than either. LOOK AT CADILLAC SALES and then speak. Actually analyze them for the briefest of moments and U will come away with as much confidence as I. As long as Cadillac stays the course, providing vehicles with the DNA that is embedded within the "ATS-CTS Stepping Stone" then everything they put forth will add to overall sales volume without a need to fleet heavily.

 

5 vehicles versus Benz, BMW, and Audi's 10+ and their sales numbers are indicative of that fact. These other brands are picking up sales in areas where not only Cadillac does not offer vehicles YET, but in market segments that encroach very easily on mainstream market makers. There is no way a buyer should be trying to decide between a Mercedes CLA and a Honda Civic, Ford Fusion, or Chevy Malibu LTZ, yet it is happening

 

Don't be discouraged Caddy. While the haters look to convince U that U must CHANGE while being the SAME.. from 20 years ago.. moving forward will yield untold reward.

 

[Cmicasa the Great]

Oh.. and as for GM in whole..

 

Not gonna say much again. Just gonna leave this here:

 

 

Notice anything that should have knocked sales down for one.. but didn't.. and picked up sales for another… and DID?

 

What I'm seeing is GM ATPs are up $3500 over Ford and 4000 over Fiat and closing in on VW's, which is Audi/Porsche rich over VW itself. On top of that GM's incentive spending is actually down as old models are depleted.

 

As I said.. I'm not gonna say much.. but somehow I think I said plenty

[Drew Dowdell]

That's a real story there C.

[Cmicasa the Great]

That's a real story there C.

YUP

[A Horse With No Name]

Again, i think GM is on a fantastic track.. The quality and positioning in the market has not been this good since the 1960's.  I am loving it.

[smk4565]

So why doesn't Cadillac have more models? We all know you need multiple body styles, so where are they all? Until GM spends more money on them you'll have a shoe string lineup and cars that are competitive but not best in the world. This is what Infiniti is.

GM transaction prices are up because GMT900 sales were up. Those are GM's cash cows. I bet GM's average transaction price on sedans is awful. Sidebar, if I ran GM I would raise all GMC prices by 10-15% without adding any content. If the "GMC" brand name is so strong, people will pay Escalde money for a Yukon, and if GMC can't support Land Roger or Cadillac level pricing then they don't need to exist. Pump those dollars into Cadillac.

[Drew Dowdell]

People already do. At least 25% of all GMCs sold are Denali editions.

[Z-06]

GM transaction prices are up because GMT900 sales were up. Those are GM's cash cows.

 

Bitch Please!! And that is a bad thing? Guess what more money = more development dollars. Just like what VW is doing with Macan and Cayenne to sustain 911 and Cayman. At least that is what it is telling its gullible sheep.

[Cmicasa the Great]

So why doesn't Cadillac have more models? We all know you need multiple body styles, so where are they all? Until GM spends more money on them you'll have a shoe string lineup and cars that are competitive but not best in the world. This is what Infiniti is.

GM transaction prices are up because GMT900 sales were up. Those are GM's cash cows. I bet GM's average transaction price on sedans is awful. Sidebar, if I ran GM I would raise all GMC prices by 10-15% without adding any content. If the "GMC" brand name is so strong, people will pay Escalde money for a Yukon, and if GMC can't support Land Roger or Cadillac level pricing then they don't need to exist. Pump those dollars into Cadillac.

 

 

I don't kno how to say this to U so it is understood, but I'll try. U HATE GM.. and Cadillac by default. 

 

Now that's outta the way.. Cadillac doesn't have more models because the brand was rebooted after the BK.. and no one.. including me saw the fact that luxury brands like Mercedes would WHORE themselves out to any segment in an attempt to gain market share. Mercedes is a WHORE. Mercedes is a WHORE. Mercedes is a WHORE.  Say it with me. 

 

Furthermore the ATPS are up also because  GM's incentive spending is actually down as old models are depleted... Cadillac despite lower sales is selling their vehicles with less cash on the hood and higher MRSPs to start out with, 

Edited December 5, 2014 by Cmicasa the Great

[smk4565]

High truck sales is a good thing for GM, obviously that has been their profit center for years.  I am just saying that I wouldn't get overly excited on transaction prices being up, because they are probably not up across the board.  And if the truck sales ever tanked, it could spell trouble, much like it did back in 2009.

 

And to Drew's point, I would price the base model GMC's where the Denali trims are now and add $5-10,000 more to that price for Denali trim.  Terrain should be $33k base, $40k for Denali, Acadia at $45k base, $55k for Denali, Yukon $60k base, and $75k for Denali.  Sierra would be $40k base and $50k for Denali, Canyon at $30k base.  I wouldn't change the trucks either (with the exception of the base Canyon and Sierra would become the current SLE trim), just the price.  Those trucks should be so outrageously priced that the profit margin is Porsche level, and if GMC can't get sales with that much markup then GM can dump the brand and sell Chevys plus Buick is about to have 3 crossovers and Cadillac is getting more too.  And if people are foolish enough to spend $50k on an Acadia that has the same equipment as a $35k Traverse, then that profit GM can put into fixing cars like the Malibu.

[smk4565]

Cadillac only had 6 models before bankruptcy too.  The CTS-STS-DTS became the ATS-CTS-XTS, the failed XLR became the failed ELR, and the SRX and Escalade are the same.  They are going on 15 years of the same 6 models with the exception of the XLR for ELR change.  Because Cadillac needs more money, more money to make more body styles, more money to make new engines, new diesels, new DOHC V8s and new transmissions, etc.  Only way to get more money is to cut another brand because going from 8 to 4 hasn't solved the problem, or to price gouge GMC trucks to Porshce-like margins so you are making $12-15,000 profit on a GMC where the comparable Chevy might only make $2-5,000.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Cadillac only had 6 models before bankruptcy too.  The CTS-STS-DTS became the ATS-CTS-XTS, the failed XLR became the failed ELR, and the SRX and Escalade are the same.  They are going on 15 years of the same 6 models with the exception of the XLR for ELR change.  Because Cadillac needs more money, more money to make more body styles, more money to make new engines, new diesels, new DOHC V8s and new transmissions, etc.  Only way to get more money is to cut another brand because going from 8 to 4 hasn't solved the problem, or to price gouge GMC trucks to Porshce-like margins so you are making $12-15,000 profit on a GMC where the comparable Chevy might only make $2-5,000.

 

Whatever Bro. The fact remains that U are over-blowing a 6% YTD drop after 22% YTD Growth last year. The one thing GM needs not do is cut brands again. Cadillac's lack of vehicles has nothin to do with vehicles at GMC. Its silly to say and I wish U would move past it. Your point would make a weeeeee bit of sense if GMC or Buick were not derived from existing vehicles in GM's empire. Cadillac's lack of vehicles has more to do with the plans that were put on hold due to the BK and the changes needed in the mainstream vehicles to deal with CAFE. Mercedes WHORED itself to deal with and inadvertently moved down market. Cadillac technically doesn't need to do that but will just for the simple fact that idiots who analyze the monthly sales numbers consistently FAIL to see the obvious. 

 

BTW.. I still haven't seen your explanation of why Audi is cool only selling 162K cars YTD with 12 vehicles, and Caddy is doomed selling 154K on 6 cars? Also please explain why U love mentioning CTS sales but always neglect bringing up that the CTS is outselling the A6 and A7 Combined?? Why are ATS sales such a concern just establishing itself in teh market, but A4 sales.. only beating it by 3K YTD are not an issue? Please explain. I would love to hear your German car-loving explanation. 

[smk4565]

Audi is cool selling 162k cars in the USA because the USA accounts for about 10% of global Audi sales.  Audi sold 1,590,000 cars last year, only about 160,000 of those in the USA.   Cadillac doesn't have that luxury, they need the American market sales to survive.

 

I would disagree that Mercedes whored themselves out, they introduced an A-class level car in the USA, which they already sold elsewhere.  And they have raised the price of the C-class by $5,000, and the E-class and S-class have the highest base prices in their segments.   A base model C-class is $40,000, look at the base price of an ATS, 3-series, A4 or IS250, they are all around $33k.

 

The CTS sells okay, it sells worse than the old one, but that is to be expected because they raised the price.  But the STS used to sell over 2,000 a month too back in 2006, then it dropped off the map.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Audi is cool selling 162k cars in the USA because the USA accounts for about 10% of global Audi sales.  Audi sold 1,590,000 cars last year, only about 160,000 of those in the USA.   Cadillac doesn't have that luxury, they need the American market sales to survive.

 

I would disagree that Mercedes whored themselves out, they introduced an A-class level car in the USA, which they already sold elsewhere.  And they have raised the price of the C-class by $5,000, and the E-class and S-class have the highest base prices in their segments.   A base model C-class is $40,000, look at the base price of an ATS, 3-series, A4 or IS250, they are all around $33k.

 

The CTS sells okay, it sells worse than the old one, but that is to be expected because they raised the price.  But the STS used to sell over 2,000 a month too back in 2006, then it dropped off the map.

 

 

Cadillac GLOBAL sales YTD are up more than 15%. Furthermore the fact is that while Audi is selling 1.59Million it is for a large part actually competing with Cadillac/Buick/GMC globally. I won't pull those numbers but I'm betting that it more than equals Audi. Just so U see don't bring it up.. Chevy/Opel/Holden compete with VW/Seat.

 

 

Mercedes whored itself.. and U will see C-Class, that ugly mutha-effer, sales suffer as a result once the replacement or last gen vehicles are done as a result of the CLA. 

 

 

The CTS should be expected to sell worse than the Gen 2 model... not just because of the price, but because the blatant IN YO FACE reason I keep putting out there and U continue to fail in seeing.. the  previous model sold 30% in coupes 

 

 LOOK!!!LOOK!!!LOOK!!!!

 

2011 Coupe 27%

2011 Sedan 70%

2011 Wagon 3%

 

2012 Coupe 27%

2012 Sedan 70%

2012 Wagon 4%

 

2013 Coupe 29%

2013 Sedan 68%

2013 Wagon 3%

 

2014 Coupe 29%

2014 Sedan 69%

2014 Wagon 2%

Edited December 5, 2014 by Cmicasa the Great

[Drew Dowdell]

When I'm not on my phone, I need to take a closer look at those numbers

[Cmicasa the Great]

When I'm not on my phone, I need to take a closer look at those numbers

Yes. I wish Smky would. And I kno he will probably say that its not actually 30%, but I will comeback with its actually sometime more like 31 or 32% when U include the wagon. What I don't have is the percentage of those sales that were the currently nonexistent V-Series.

 

So let's recount what simple observation, logic, no-hate for the brand, and a non-desire to hate American cars will awaken one to:

 

 If CTS sales for Gen 2 were going 30% minimum to coupes/wagons.. and neither exist now.. is it a possibility that 30% of those sales are not buying the sedan? Does it automatically have to be that people don't want the CTS? Could it possibly be that the CTS-hasn't debuted in the variant they want yet? 

 

at 2446 sales last month.. on this theory, I'll add an additional 30% which would put the CTS up to 3180, or an additional 734 sales for the month. That would have put it above the 5series... or only 750 behind the 5 and 6series. 

 

Let's also throw in that the Eclass comes in Coupe, Wagon, Sedan, AMG, Diesel, Hybrid, and Convertible. It Damn sure better outsell every other vehicle in the class. 

 

BTW.. he still hasn't addressed the Audi issue in full. People have no issue talking $h! about VW sales in the U.S. never siting what they sell globally. Why now? 

[ZL-1]

The CTS isn't the issue. No CTS coupe means less total sales (the CTS coupe was an instant hit as shoppers in that segment like their cars to be a little bolder unlike ATS segment shoppers who tend to prefer more conservative coupes), and to boot we have higher transaction prices for the new CTS vs. the old one.

 

It's the ATS that isn't doing so well, and then, of course, with only SRX and Escalade, cadillac is missing on the booming CUV segment.

[smk4565]

The ATS and CTS sedans are in model year 3 and 2 respectively. There is no reason the V-series and coupe versions of both shouldn't be on sale now, plus the ATS convertible should be on sale now. ATS and CTS should both have a diesel or hybrid by now also. This is Cadillac's own fault, and it is either due to inept management or lack of funding. I suggest their budget just doesn't allow for many models to be produced, because for 15 years they have had a 6 product line up or less, and V-series has been limited.

[Drew Dowdell]

The ATS coupe is on sale now... I've driven it twice since July.

[Z-06]

The CTS isn't the issue. No CTS coupe means less total sales (the CTS coupe was an instant hit as shoppers in that segment like their cars to be a little bolder unlike ATS segment shoppers who tend to prefer more conservative coupes), and to boot we have higher transaction prices for the new CTS vs. the old one.

 

It's the ATS that isn't doing so well, and then, of course, with only SRX and Escalade, cadillac is missing on the booming CUV segment.

 

I agree that CTS needs a coupe and in some ways a radical one.

[Cmicasa the Great]

The ATS and CTS sedans are in model year 3 and 2 respectively. There is no reason the V-series and coupe versions of both shouldn't be on sale now, plus the ATS convertible should be on sale now. ATS and CTS should both have a diesel or hybrid by now also. This is Cadillac's own fault, and it is either due to inept management or lack of funding. I suggest their budget just doesn't allow for many models to be produced, because for 15 years they have had a 6 product line up or less, and V-series has been limited.

 

 

The very FACT that U don't realize that the ATS is a product that was introduced almost 3 years after if was supposed to be is proof positive that U simply don't kno what U are talking about. For all intents the ATS was supposed to be the small entry into the U.S. market in 2010. Essentially the replacement for the BLS that never made it here. The BK killed the intro, because YES.. in that case GM as a whole was money poor. That is not the case now.. as GM quite possibly has more cash on hand than any maker on the planet. On top of that they also, despite the recall fiasco, have limited liabilities, and a remaining almost $40 Billion in tax credits.

 

I too want variants. I have been vocal about it since I returned here. Johan realizes this it seems and the implementation should be forth coming after the CT6

[Drew Dowdell]

GM unit sales are up 4.1% for the year and transaction prices are way up.   GM and Cadillac are not going to be having a cash problem any time soon.

[Z-06]

The ATS and CTS sedans are in model year 3 and 2 respectively. There is no reason the V-series and coupe versions of both shouldn't be on sale now, plus the ATS convertible should be on sale now. ATS and CTS should both have a diesel or hybrid by now also. This is Cadillac's own fault, and it is either due to inept management or lack of funding. I suggest their budget just doesn't allow for many models to be produced, because for 15 years they have had a 6 product line up or less, and V-series has been limited.

 

Hey SMK, you really have a short term memory loss don't you? How many times many people have stated here that M cars and RS cars do not come with the generic model release? Look at M5 and M3/4 they were in hiatus for 2 and 3 years, respectively after the vanilla cars were released. Then you will bring in AMG models release times like you have done before. But all AMG does is put a lipstick on the pig unlike M cars, which are genuinely engineered just like the V series vehicles are.

 

Stop running around circles of your changing goal posts.

 

 

 

I think 2015 model year should be doable for the CTS-V.  It shouldn't take 2 years after the initial car comes out to drop a bigger engine in and add some trim.  Model year 2 of the body style is reasonable, many cars are done like that, the base sedan comes out, in year 2 the coupe and sport version arrive, a couple years later a mid-cylce refresh.

 

SMK... are you able to ever make a post that doesn't contain some reference to the S-Class?

I guess not.

 

Unlike AMG studio, which just dumps a specialty vanilla engine in all the hi-performance cars while giving some nose job, carbon fiber lipstick and little botox in the suspension, M, RS, V and even F studios actually do more to aerodynamics, handling, and suspension tuning. Many times engines come unique to the car. CTS-V had its own engine when introduced. These things need time. A staggered launch helps the lineup fresh rather than dumping all models in one go. It also helps to improve any initial niggles to have a smooth launch for a model that is considered top of the line.

 

Per your Cadillac theory (Other luxury manufacturers do it so should Cadillac) - to the contrary - everyone else does it so should MB.

 

[smk4565]

AMG co-develops their cars along side the development of the base car. AMG doesn't use the same transmission or 4Matic system as the other cars and they hand build the engines. Mercedes-AMG has a team in England that builds their Formula 1 car and in their down time they work on AMG road cars.

I don't change goal posts, I don't think it is unreasonable to release a sedan one year and release a coupe and performance version the next year. It should not take longer than 1 year for any car maker. Chevy doesn't release the Silverado in extended cab only and make you wait 2-3 years for a crew cab or standard cab.

Edited December 5, 2014 by smk4565

[Drew Dowdell]

AMG co-develops their cars along side the development of the base car. AMG doesn't use the same transmission or 4Matic system as the other cars and they hand build the engines. Mercedes-AMG has a team in England that builds their Formula 1 car and in their down time they work on AMG road cars.

I don't change goal posts, I don't think it is unreasonable to release a sedan one year and release a coupe and performance version the next year. It should not take longer than 1 year for any car maker. Chevy doesn't release the Silverado in extended cab only and make you wait 2-3 years for a crew cab or standard cab.

 

But even your beloved MB, BMW, and Audi only do that once in a while.  Most of the time it is 2+ years between body style releases. The last C-Class coupe took a loooong time to come out. 

[Cory Wolfe]

The only thing I'm going to say regarding Cadillac's sales is this: I bet more people would drive away in a new Cadillac after a test drive if CUE weren't so horrid. It's the absolute worst aspect about their new models. It's awful and the touch buttons only makes the system worse. 

What I really want to talk about is how much of a failure the new Malibu is. It's first model year finished with the first sales decline the model has seen since the recession. Now, with its second year of sales coming to an end, it's off another 7% YTD. So much for that emergency refresh, eh? The car has good bones; The powertrain is acceptable, the chassis is great, the material quality is good, and reliability has been stellar so far. But, the packaging and polish are way off. As I have stated before, the wheelbase never should have been shortened. Yes, you can look at the measurements and see it fits within the class, but have a seat in the back next to its competitors and you wonder where that class-competitive room is. It's easily the most claustrophobic rear cabin in its class, which is the last thing you want in a family sedan. On top of that, there are a few questionable design choices here and there. The interior in its entirety, for one. I'd also throw in the sort of clunky looking rear end, it just isn't cohesive with the rest of the smooth, sleek design. Some of the interior materials are major turn offs, as well. The seat fabric in some models is absolutely horrific, for one. Finally, while going all 4-Cyl probably seemed like the trend to follow at the time, it's worth noting that the top 3 selling vehicles all offer V6 power and better fuel economy.

[Drew Dowdell]

The Malibu is a failure because it is positively compact inside compared to the competition. The Sonata, Optima, Accord, and Passat are huge in the back. Numbers or not, the Malibu feels like the smallest car in the class.  Even the Jetta feels roomier and the Cruze feels almost the same.

[Z-06]

AMG co-develops their cars along side the development of the base car. AMG doesn't use the same transmission or 4Matic system as the other cars and they hand build the engines. Mercedes-AMG has a team in England that builds their Formula 1 car and in their down time they work on AMG road cars.

I don't change goal posts, I don't think it is unreasonable to release a sedan one year and release a coupe and performance version the next year. It should not take longer than 1 year for any car maker. Chevy doesn't release the Silverado in extended cab only and make you wait 2-3 years for a crew cab or standard cab.

 

First and again, AMG has one mass produced engine (two since it has the 4 banger and I am discounting the V12 for its dismal sales), which it puts in practically everything. So it is not unique. You can find that engine in a $65,000 C class to a $160,000 S class or in the GT.

 

Second, hand built engine has nothing to do with time lag between a regular model and an AMG.

 

Third, again don't spin your MB PR wheel too much, the transmission and 4-Matic are tweaked by AMG, not whole new animals.

 

So yes, development-wise AMG just puts a lipstick on a pig unlike M, RS, V treatments do, even F did with RC-F, wherein they actually spend R&D time and money to create something unique.

[Cmicasa the Great]

The Malibu is a failure because it is positively compact inside compared to the competition. The Sonata, Optima, Accord, and Passat are huge in the back. Numbers or not, the Malibu feels like the smallest car in the class.  Even the Jetta feels roomier and the Cruze feels almost the same.

 

 

 

Hence my belief and hope that the next gen Malibu goes on Epsilon II-LWB (111.7 in) but still be styled down a bit in overall length to the size it is now.  The Impala.. my beloved.. would stay on LWB Super Epsilon and retain it's 201+ length or go RWD/AWD and get a version of Alpha or Omega. Personally I think either way would be cool, but considering Full-Size car overall sales in the mainstream.. the best bet would be to stay on Epsilon, but give it the full on treatment of the current XTS in terms of size and driveline. This would keep Epsilon as being one of the most modular, widely used, and profitable platforms in the business. 

[smk4565]

I had a Malibu Eco as a rental last month in Florida, the car doesn't sell because it is emotionless and souless.  The front end looks good, the rear end is awful, the interior I didn't think was so small that it would deter people from buying one.  The dual cowl design though is ugly and makes it feel more cramped in the front two seats, the 2.5 liter is buzzy at anything over 3,000 RPM, and it has no power under 3,000 rpm so you see the problem there.  It rode okay on smooth, flat Florida roads, my guess though is on Pennsylvania pothole roads the ride turns rubbish.  The brakes were mush too and you get a bit more tire/road noise than you'd like on the highway, wind noise wasn't too bad.  Nothing about that car is enjoyable to drive, the interior isn't really a nice place to be either, it is like standard cheap rental car.

[smk4565]

 

So yes, development-wise AMG just puts a lipstick on a pig unlike M, RS, V treatments do, even F did with RC-F, wherein they actually spend R&D time and money to create something unique.

 

All 2 of the Lexus F models which still use the 5.0 liter V8 from 5 years ago.  The RC-F is using 2008 IS F running gear, great R&D spend there.  Audi has the RS5 with an 2008 R8 engine, and the RS7 used the same 4.0 twin turbo V8 in the S8 and the Bentley Continental.  AMG has 4 engines, the V12, 5.5 V8, 4.0 V8 and 2.0 four.  Oddly enough Daimler's CEO just challenged Audi and BMW to enter Formula 1 next year, that would be their chance to prove it on the race track who has the best engineering.  Lexus or Cadillac could jump in if they want.

[Cmicasa the Great]

I had a Malibu Eco as a rental last month in Florida, the car doesn't sell because it is emotionless and souless.  The front end looks good, the rear end is awful, the interior I didn't think was so small that it would deter people from buying one.  The dual cowl design though is ugly and makes it feel more cramped in the front two seats, the 2.5 liter is buzzy at anything over 3,000 RPM, and it has no power under 3,000 rpm so you see the problem there.  It rode okay on smooth, flat Florida roads, my guess though is on Pennsylvania pothole roads the ride turns rubbish.  The brakes were mush too and you get a bit more tire/road noise than you'd like on the highway, wind noise wasn't too bad.  Nothing about that car is enjoyable to drive, the interior isn't really a nice place to be either, it is like standard cheap rental car.

 

 

I find myself calling BS on most of your posts. I almost want U to post your rental agreement showing the Malibu, but please don't if U have one. The 2.5L is not "buzzy." It sounds more like something U've read than anything else. Surprised U didn't bring up the rear seat room bandwagon BS from 2013. And while I agree that the rear design on the Eco is not as attractive as it is on the front, the LTZ model's rear end treatment works like a charm.. and goes extremely well. Why Chevy doesn't just pick one rear treatment and stick with it is beyond me. 

 

Either way my theory on why the Malibu doesn't sell in the same numbers as the Fusion etc is more to do with the existence of the Impala and Cruze.. and their similarities in size and place. It is the one place where I think Ford's line-up is better sorted.. Small, medium, and large.. and U can actually see the size differences with no air of deception.

 

Ford Focus, Fusion Taurus sales YTD 537,779 (Even if U throw in Ford Interceptor 9547 it still only goes to 547,326)

 

Chevy Cruze, Malibu, Impala sales YTD 554,154

 

In this situation Ford wins the Medium, but Chevy makes up with in the bookends Its evident. And it can only be fixed by changing all three Chevy cars, which I think would be a mistake. I have no issue with the Malibu not being #1-3.. or even #4 if it allows Chevy to have the top selling Large and one of the top selling Compacts on the market. Let's not forget also about the fact that Chevy also offers the Sonic and Spark. Bottom line is that Chevy offers a lot of cars to fit a lot of people's needs. I can hate them for that.

[Z-06]

 

 

So yes, development-wise AMG just puts a lipstick on a pig unlike M, RS, V treatments do, even F did with RC-F, wherein they actually spend R&D time and money to create something unique.

 

All 2 of the Lexus F models which still use the 5.0 liter V8 from 5 years ago.  The RC-F is using 2008 IS F running gear, great R&D spend there.  Audi has the RS5 with an 2008 R8 engine, and the RS7 used the same 4.0 twin turbo V8 in the S8 and the Bentley Continental.  AMG has 4 engines, the V12, 5.5 V8, 4.0 V8 and 2.0 four.  Oddly enough Daimler's CEO just challenged Audi and BMW to enter Formula 1 next year, that would be their chance to prove it on the race track who has the best engineering.  Lexus or Cadillac could jump in if they want.

 

 

Alright SMK, as usual you are going to make an AssMK of yourself.

 

First, if you read your favorite magazine Car and Driver you will realize there have been a lot of modifications to the RC-F's engine compared to the one that was introduced in IS-F. The engine has no other uses in Lexus lineup so it is unique. Your flawed logic is - if the displacement is same means the engine is unchanged. Second the car, for whatever logic Lexus had, is made from structural components of three different vehicles. This takes a lot of time, unlike AMG, which puts a lipstick on every pig Chevroletdez Benz produces.

 

Third, if you want to bring the age of RS5 engine, how long was 6.2 in service? From 2005 to 2013 that is a long time.

 

Again as I have stated in the past, AMG gives a perception of using variety of engines, when it introduces the next vanilla engine while phasing the existing engine. The 5.5 is on its way out while the 4.0 is being introduced. AMG will milk the bigger engine till it makes the other one universal. And I did state the other two engines in my post. Please read carefully, granted you do have adult ADD.

 

It took Mercedes 7 years to win the F1 championship since returning to F1 with possibly biggest budget. And Dieter is jumping all over for just one win when Ferrari, Williams, Benneton, Sauber have won more championships than Mercedes's possible podium finishes. F1 has nothing to do with our discussions.

 

You just want to prove your cheerleading knowledge and how good a humper of Chevroletdes Benz you are. The fact is you get your butt hurt when anyone says anything about your favorite brand just shows your level of ignorance and fanboi-ism.

[A Horse With No Name]

GM unit sales are up 4.1% for the year and transaction prices are way up.   GM and Cadillac are not going to be having a cash problem any time soon.

 

 

Having the right product is starting to pay off for them.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

GM unit sales are up 4.1% for the year and transaction prices are way up.   GM and Cadillac are not going to be having a cash problem any time soon.

 

 

Having the right product is starting to pay off for them.

 

 

 

and having more product that addresses more niches within their respective markets will pay even more.  There simply is no reason in the world why GM has no other Convertibles on sale in the U.S. outside of the Vette and the Camaro. Used to be a time U could get a Cavalier... no. a Metro Convertible 4GODSAKE

[G. David Felt]

How about the Tracker Convertibles you could buy. They are still very popular in Seattle I see them all over.

 

[Drew Dowdell]

They've all turned into piles of iron oxide round here...  along with the Metros and Cavaliers.

[Cory Wolfe]

My ex had a Metro convertible... It was awful. Like driving a car made out of cardboard and powered by turtles. 

[Drew Dowdell]

My ex had a Metro convertible... It was awful. Like driving a car made out of cardboard and powered by turtles. 

 

and yet he loved it if I remember... didn't he used to go junkyard hopping for it?

[Cory Wolfe]

 

My ex had a Metro convertible... It was awful. Like driving a car made out of cardboard and powered by turtles. 

 

and yet he loved it if I remember... didn't he used to go junkyard hopping for it?

 

 

He did. I even joined him one time, bringing home an entire bumper that was stuffed inside. That was a "fun" 4 hour drive on I80. 

[Drew Dowdell]

Well you can't save everyone...

[ZL-1]

 

The CTS isn't the issue. No CTS coupe means less total sales (the CTS coupe was an instant hit as shoppers in that segment like their cars to be a little bolder unlike ATS segment shoppers who tend to prefer more conservative coupes), and to boot we have higher transaction prices for the new CTS vs. the old one.

 

It's the ATS that isn't doing so well, and then, of course, with only SRX and Escalade, cadillac is missing on the booming CUV segment.

 

I agree that CTS needs a coupe and in some ways a radical one.

 

In the luxury market the smaller segment is the most conservative, so GM has made a good bet in not releasing the ATS coupe with a radical design. I agree that there should be a CTS coupe (and wagon as well IMHO, along with the ATS coupe and an ATS wagon; I'd even throw in convertible versions of both the ATS and CTS coupes). Problem is that GM hasn't given Cadillac the budget to develop various versions at the same time that the sedans are being developed, it's been a wait-and-see-and-wait-and-see-again approach that really hasn't helped Cadillac. GM needs to really take the plunge with Cadillac and bet strongly both on the brand's product and the image/intanglible attributes that should make up a luxury brand.