LA Auto Show: Cadillac ATS-V: Comments

[William Maley]

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Cadillac's V-Series was a three model affair at the start with the CTS-V, STS-V, and XLR-V. Then it became one model affair with the next-generation CTS-V. But the CTS-V was available in a sedan, coupe, and wagon. As the third chapter begins for the Cadillac V lineup, it kicks off with the smallest model in the lineup. Introducing the 2016 Cadillac ATS-V.

Offered in either a sedan or coupe, the Cadillac ATS-V is a mean looker. The front end gets larger grille openings feed cool air to engine, a mesh grille insert, and a carbon fiber hood with a heat extractor to keep the engine cool. Wider fenders are needed for the 18-inch wheels that wrapped in Michelln Pilot Sport that measure out to 9 inches wide in front and 9.5 inches in back. The rear end features a lip spoiler and quad exhausts.

Needing a bit more agression? Cadillac will offer a 'Carbon Fiber' and 'Track' packages. The Carbon Fiber package gets a more aggressive front splitter, hood vent trim, rear diffuser, composite rocker extensions, and a taller, body-color rear spoiler. The track package takes elements of carbon fiber package and adds the Performance Data Recorder and a low-mass battery.

The ATS-V's interior comes with seats with suede inserts, a unique version of the instrument cluster for the V, and Cadillac CUE infotainment system. Optional will be sixteen-way Recaro bucket seats.

As was leaked last week, power will come from the Twin-Turbo 3.6L producing 455 horsepower and 445 pound-feet of torque. Transmissions include a six-speed manual with rev matching or an eight-speed automatic. Both transmissions come with launch control. Cadillac says the ATS-V hits 60 MPH in 3.9 second and can hit a top speed of 185 MPH.

Suspension-wise, the ATS-V uses the latest version of Magnetic Ride Control that are reportedly 40 percent faster than the last generation version. The chassis has been stiffen an additional 25 percent. Bringing it to a stop will be a set of Brembo brakes with six-pistons up front and four pistons in the rear. The Performance Traction Management system will keep everything in order with a choice of five different settings for a driver to choose from.

No word on pricing, but the ATS-V sedan and coupe will be arriving at dealers next spring.

Source: Cadillac

Press Release is on Page 2

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Cadillac ATS-V Expands Lineup, Intensifies Passion

• First Twin Turbo V-Series delivers track-capable driving experience
  

LOS ANGELES – Cadillac today introduced the 2016 ATS-V, expanding the acclaimed ATS product range and elevating the brand’s elite high-performance V-Series to its next generation.

Available in sedan and coupe forms, the first-ever ATS-V will introduce class-leading twin-turbocharged power and a comprehensive suite of design and performance systems when production begins in spring 2015.

Since its inception in 2004, Cadillac’s V-Series has driven remarkable power and performance capability into the brand’s growing luxury car range. Building on the strengths of the award-winning ATS product line, the V-Series adds impressive track capability to what was already the lightest and most agile-driving car in the luxury compact class. The result is a dual-purpose luxury performer – a car with true track capability right from the factory that is also a sophisticated luxury car on the road.

“Cadillac’s V-Series is the best example of Cadillac’s emerging product substance – and the purest expression of the passion at the core of the brand,” said Johan de Nysschen, Cadillac President.

The ATS-V arrives next spring, powered by the first-ever twin-turbocharged engine in a V-Series. Rated at an estimated 455 horsepower (339 kW) and 445 lb-ft of torque (603 Nm), the engine is the segment’s highest-output six-cylinder and enables 0-60 performance in 3.9 seconds and a top speed of more than 185 mph. It is backed by a six-speed manual – with Active Rev Match, no-lift shifting and launch control – or a paddle-shift eight-speed automatic transmission featuring launch control and Performance Algorithm Shift.

The Cadillac Twin Turbo engine supports comprehensively redesigned chassis, suspension and drivetrain systems developed to make the ATS-V one of the most agile, responsive and confident luxury performance cars on the market. Key performance technologies include:

• Brembo high-performance brake system developed to provide durability, consistency and the capability for track-day performance straight from the factory
  
• Third-generation Magnetic Ride Control, which delivers 40 percent faster damping response
  
• Integrated chassis controls that provide balanced performance for touring and the track, including class-exclusive Performance Traction Management
  
• Structural stiffness increased by 25 percent for higher cornering loads
  
• Driver-selectable driving modes for touring, sport and track
  
• Tri-compound tires offering excellent grip with extended tire wear
  
• Available downforce-generating track aerodynamics package
  
• Functional exterior design for powertrain and drivetrain cooling, as well as aerodynamic performance
  
• An interior with high-performance seats and ergonomics focused on the driver’s interfaces with key features for performance driving.
  

“As the smallest and lightest V-Series ever, the ATS-V forges a great connection with the driver, with exceptional nimbleness and responsiveness,” said David Leone, Cadillac Executive Chief Engineer. “It’s adaptable to the driver’s preferences, with every selectable mode developed to deliver the best performance for all types of driving scenarios, including the track.”

A Performance Data Recorder onboard the ATS-V allows drivers to record high-definition video, with data overlays, of their driving experiences on and off the track, enabling sharing on social media.

First twin-turbocharged V-Series

With a more powerful iteration of Cadillac’s Twin Turbo 3.6L V-6, the ATS-V represents the first twin-turbo powertrain in the history of the V-Series lineup. Exclusive features for the ATS-V version of the Twin Turbo are designed to make power faster and sustain it longer. Highlights include:

• Turbochargers with low-inertia titanium-aluminide turbines and vacuum-actuated wastegates for more responsive torque production
  
• Compressors matched for peak efficiency at peak power levels, for optimal track performance
  
• Patent-pending low-volume charge-cooling system that optimizes packaging efficiency and maximizes boost pressure
  
• Lightweight titanium connecting rods that reduce inertia of the rotating assembly, complementing the quick-spooling turbochargers.
  

The Cadillac Twin Turbo also features a high-performance lubrication system designed to maintain optimal oil pressure and ventilation during high-lateral driving maneuvers typically encountered on a track.

Stronger foundation and track-honed driving experience

The underlying ATS structure is highly mass optimized and designed to meet higher performance requirements, with enhancements to the V-Series developed to respond to cornering and torque loads that go significantly beyond the levels experienced by the non-V models.

The new elements include:

• Unique shock tower-to-plenum brace
  
• Strengthened rocker bulkhead
  
• Stronger rear cradle-to-rocker braces
  
• A unique aluminum shear panel at the front of the chassis
  
• V-braces for the engine compartment.
  

The result is 25-percent greater structural stiffness than non-V models, which contributes to more precise handling and more direct steering responsiveness.

“The ATS-V feels like it was machined from billet steel,” said Tony Roma, chief engineer. “Along with supporting the higher performance capability of the car, the enhanced structure conveys confidence to the driver through a greater feeling of solidity and sharper, more precise responsiveness.”

With the stronger body structure – and more than a decade of V-Series production models and the CTS-V racing program experience under their belts – engineers tuned the ATS-V to deliver greater body motion control for a more agile feel, while maintaining excellent ride quality.

“The result is class-leading capability on the highway or track, balanced with luxury and refinement,” said Roma. “In fact, the car is ready for the track right off the showroom floor, with no special modifications required.”

A key component of the car’s dual-purpose performance are Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires developed specifically for the ATS-V. They feature a tri-compound tread that delivers excellent grip in performance driving situations, but delivers excellent ride quality characteristics and extended tread wear.

Also, the V-Series models share the same 109.3-inch (2,775 mm) wheelbase as other ATS coupe and sedan models, but feature wider front and rear footprints that enhance grip, reduce body motion in turns and contribute to more direct-feeling steering.

Additional contributors to the ATS-V’s dual-mode driving experience include:

• A revised multi-link double-pivot MacPherson-strut front suspension delivers a quicker response and increased lateral control, incorporating new ride and handling links, where traditional elastomeric bushings are replaced with zero-compliance cross-axis ball joints, higher-rate springs and a stiffer stabilizer bar – for 50 percent greater roll stiffness
  
• The ZF Steering Systems Servotronic II variable-ratio electric power steering gear, with increased system stiffness offering an improved feeling of precision and greater driver feedback
  
• Cadillac’s five-link rear suspension features reduced roll center migration, stronger lateral control and effective anti-squat geometry, complementing the front suspension with greater body motion control. Contributing components include stiffer bushings, new cradle mounts, higher-rate springs and a stiffer stabilizer bar
  
• A standard electronic limited-slip differential supports optimal traction and enables maximum corner exit acceleration
  
• Larger prop shafts and greater half-shaft asymmetry (stiffer driver’s side shaft) mitigate power hop during acceleration
  
• A Brembo high-performance brake system provides durability, consistency and the capability for track-day performance. The system includes 14.5-inch-diameter (370 mm) front rotors with staggered six-piston calipers and 13.3-inch-diamter (339 mm) rear rotors with four-piston calipers.
  

The ATS-V also features third-generation Magnetic Ride Control and Performance Traction Management. Five driver-selectable settings include the segment’s only competition-level settings for stability and traction control.

Magnetic Ride Control “reads” the road a thousand times per second, sending data to magneto-rheological fluid-filled dampers that can independently control the damping characteristics of all four dampers. Third-generation improvements enable 40-percent faster damping response. In fact, at 60 mph, the third-generation magnetic ride control system calculates the optimal damping force for every inch of the road.

Functional design

Almost every exterior panel on the ATS-V is unique, from the fascias and fenders, to the hood, rear spoiler and rocker moldings – and every one was designed to support the car’s capability.

“All of the design elements have a purpose,” said Andrew Smith, executive director, Cadillac Global Design. “They contribute to lift reduction, enhanced cooling, reduced mass or all of the above.”

The unique elements include:

• A lightweight carbon fiber hood features an air-extracting vent that not only pulls hot air out of the engine compartment, but helps reduce lift at speed by channeling air pulled through the radiator out and over the top of car rather than allowing trapped air to exit under the car
  
• Unique front and rear fascias provide optimal aero performance, with larger grille openings in the front fascia to feed more air to the new twin-turbocharged engine. Even the mesh pattern of the signature grille openings is enlarged to allow more air into the radiator and multiple heat exchangers
  
• A front splitter enhances handling by forcing air to push down on the front of the car rather than flow under it, where it can cause lift
  
• Wider fenders to accommodate 18 x 9-inch front wheels and 18 x 9.5-inch rear wheels that are wrapped with Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires
  
• The aluminum wheels, unique to the V-Series, are constructed of a low-mass forging that helps reduce un-sprung weight for greater agility and a more direct feel to steering inputs
  
• The rocker moldings and rear spoiler are aero-optimized.
  

Available Carbon Fiber and Track packages take aero performance and mass optimization to higher levels. The Carbon Fiber package includes a more aggressive front splitter, hood vent trim and rear diffuser, along with composite rocker extensions and a taller, body-color rear spoiler. The Track package includes the components of the Carbon Fiber package, plus the Performance Data Recorder and a low-mass battery. It also deletes the standard floor mats and tire inflator kit to save weight.

“V-Series is the emotive core of the Cadillac brand and the apex of the Art and Science design philosophy,” said Smith. “A car offering a bold sense of arrival, serious performance, seamless integration of technology, and precision craftsmanship. The exposed carbon fiber components, for example, are book-matched on the centerline for a more precise, tailored appearance.”

Also, the lightweight forged aluminum wheels and brake calipers are offered in three finishes, allowing owners to personalize the presence of the ATS-V.

Performance-focused cabin

The aura of track-inspired precision carries over to the interior, where the design and relationship of key components are aimed squarely at performance-driving ergonomics.

“With the performance the new ATS-V is capable of delivering, the interior needs to be as functional as the other vehicles systems,” said Smith. “All of the contact points – the steering wheel, seats, shifter and pedals – are designed to make performance driving experiences direct and intuitive.”

New, available 16-way-adjustable RECARO performance front seats are the lynchpins for the driving experience, with aggressive, adjustable bolsters that help hold the driver and front passenger in place during high-load cornering. They’ve also got a luxury-performance feel, trimmed in Mulan leather with sueded microfiber inserts and seatbacks.

The rest of the interior features Cadillac’s handcrafted cut-and-sew elements, with decorative stitching and authentic materials, including carbon fiber. Three interior color combinations are offered: Jet Black, Jet Black with Saffron accents and Light Platinum with Jet Black accents.

The ATS-V also features a unique version of the 5.7-inch, three-window instrument panel cluster display, with V-Series graphics and distinctive gauge readouts. It is also equipped with the latest connectivity technologies from Cadillac, including:

• CUE with Bluetooth connectivity with natural voice recognition
  
• Text-to-voice that converts incoming text messages to speech and reads them over the audio system speakers
  
• USB, auxiliary and SD memory card ports
  
• OnStar 4G LTE connectivity with built-in Wi-Fi hotspot.
  

The Performance Data Recorder is controlled via CUE’s color touch screen and recordings can be reviewed on the screen when the vehicle is parked.

2016 CADILLAC ATS-VPRELIMINARY SPECIFICATIONSOverview

Model:

Cadillac ATS-V coupe and sedan

Body style / driveline:

2-door luxury sport luxury coupe (RWD) or 4-door sport luxury sedan (RWD)

Construction:

unitized welded steel body with direct-mounted front cradle and rubber-isolated, multi-link independent rear suspension

GM vehicle class:

compact luxury car

Engines

3.6L V-6 Twin-Turbocharged DI VVT

Displacement (cu in / cc):

217 / 3564

Bore & stroke (in / mm):

3.7 x 3.37 / 94 x 85.6

Block material:

cast aluminum

Cylinder head material:

cast aluminum

Valvetrain:

DOHC, four valves per cylinder, continuously variable valve timing

Fuel delivery:

direct high-pressure fuel injection

Compression ratio:

10.2:1

Horsepower

(hp / kW @ rpm):

455 / 339 @ 5750 (est.)

Torque (lb-ft / Nm @ rpm):

445 / 603 @ 3500 (est.)

Recommended fuel:

premium

Max engine speed (rpm):

6500

Estimated fuel economy

(city / hwy):

TBD Transmissions

TREMEC TR6060

Hydra-Matic 8L90

Type:

fully synchronized six-speed manual with double overdrive; active rev matching and no-lift shifting features

paddle-shift eight-speed, electronically controlled, automatic overdrive with torque converter clutch

Gear ratios (:1):

First:

3.01

4.56

Second:

2.07

2.97

Third:

1.43

2.08

Fourth:

1.00

1.69

Fifth:

0.84

1.27

Sixth:

0.57

1.00

Seventh:

--

0.85

Eighth:

--

0.65

Reverse:

3.28

3.82

Final drive ratio:

3.73

2.85

Chassis / Suspension

Configuration:

rear-wheel drive

Differential:

electronic limited-slip

Front suspension:

MacPherson-type with dual lower ball joints and direct-acting stabilizer bar; magnetic ride control with monotube inverted struts

Rear suspension:

independent five-link with magnetic ride control

Steering type:

ZF rack-mounted electric, power-assisted and variable assist

Steering ratio:

15.54 (on center) to 11.1 (full lock)

Steering turns, lock to lock:

2.35

Turn circle (ft / m):

38.38 / 11.7

Chassis control:

four-channel StabiliTrak w/ brake assist and traction control; Performance Traction Management

Wheels and Tires

Wheel size and type:

18 x 9-inch front / 18 x 9.5-inch rear aluminum

Tire size:

front: 255/35ZR18 Michelin Pilot Super Sport

rear: 275/35ZR18 Michelin Pilot Super Sport

Brakes

Type:

four-wheel disc; four-channel ABS/TCS w/ DRP; Brembo brakes with staggered six-piston calipers (front) and four-piston calipers (rear)

Rotor type and thickness

(in / mm):

front: 14.5 x 1.34 (370 x 34) vented, with Ferritic Nitro Carburized process for corrosion resistance

rear: 13.3 x 1.02 (339 x 26) vented, with Ferritic Nitro Carburized process for corrosion resistance

Dimensions

Exterior

Wheelbase (in / mm):

109.3 / 2775

Length (in / mm):

184.7 / 4691 – Coupe

184 / 4673 – Sedan

Height (in / mm):

54.5 / 1384 – Coupe

55.7 / 1415 – Sedan

Width (in / mm):

72.5 / 1841 – Coupe

71.3 / 1811 – Sedan

Track (in / mm):

front: 60.5 / 1538 – Coupe

front: 60.5 / 1538 – Sedan

rear: 61.4 / 1559 – Coupe

rear: 60.4 / 1536 – Sedan

Curb weight (lb / kg):

TBD

Weight distribution

(% front / rear):

51 / 49

Interior

Legroom (in / mm):

front: 42.3 / 1074

rear: 33.5 / 850

Headroom (in / mm):

front: 37.6 / 954

rear: 35.1 / 891

Shoulder room (in / mm):

front: 54.1 / 1375

rear: 51.1 / 1298

Hip room (in / mm):

front: 54.1 / 1374

rear: 44.5 / 1131

Capacities

Seating capacity

(front / rear):

2 / 2 – Coupe

2 / 3 – Sedan

EPA passenger volume

(cu ft / L):

83.9 / 2377

EPA trunk volume (cu ft / L):

10.4 / 295

Fuel tank (gal / L):

16 / 60.5

Engine oil (qt / L):

TBD

Cooling system (qt / L):

TBD

View full article

[ZL-1]

Not a big fan of the rear spoiler there... Is that part of the track package?

 

Also, and oddly, I like the sedan better. I don't know it it's the colour but for once I prefer the sedan to the coupe...

[Cmicasa the Great]

[Cmicasa the Great]

OK.. What's with the Blue colors these days? I could see myself in another Blue car. Nice.

All in all the HP was more than we thought at 455.. The 0-60 times are I'm betting a bit conservative like Chevy did with the Stingray saying it was 3.8sec when in fact its easily able to hit 3.5. 

Another awesome thing, and I hope its a trend that continues, is that they introduced BOTH The Sedan and Coupe simultaneously. Would be nice if when the CTS-V debuts it comes out with a regular coupe.. a Sedan V and a VCoupe. 

There is also supposed to be one more debut

[Drew Dowdell]

ELR update

[William Maley]

Not a big fan of the rear spoiler there... Is that part of the track package?

Really can't say at the moment.

[Drew Dowdell]

Johann also stated last night that there are more V-Series coming.

[Cory Wolfe]

The coupe in that blue color... "Shut up and take my money, all of it!" This car looks and sounds excellent. 

[G. David Felt]

Love the Rear Spoiler, talk about some great down force at higher speeds. Over all very impressed with the auto. Just wish it would be big enough to fit Shrek comfortable enough for road trips.

 

Still it should sell very well.

[Z-06]

My only reservations are the porkiness - it is about 200 lbs too heavy - and lack of 7-speed. Up to a certain extent lack of dry sump bothers me, but then it is not a deal breaker. Otherwise it is a great effort. If in market, it would be on top of my list.

 

I see some magazines making comments of the chintzy dials and gauges, I want to understand their comments on stuck in the 80s dials and gauges of BMW M3/4.

[Z-06]

Johann also stated last night that there are more V-Series coming.

 

There is the CTS-V for Detroit, which is a given. Other than that there is nothing really, unless SRX and Escalade get a V treatment.

[Drew Dowdell]

Just repeating what he said

[William Maley]

 

Johann also stated last night that there are more V-Series coming.

 

There is the CTS-V for Detroit, which is a given. Other than that there is nothing really, unless SRX and Escalade get a V treatment.

 

 

XTS-V. Calling It!

[Drew Dowdell]

Omega cars should get v-series also.

[Z-06]

Just repeating what he said

 

Unless Cadillac gets a V sports car like the AMG GT.

[smk4565]

The spoiler is too big and looks tacky.  Not a fan of the hood with the bulge and air intake, it looks like something from a Pontiac.  The lower grille is too big, the upper grille too small.  I don't get my car makers do that, Cadillac isn't alone there, but why make your grille smaller to show off the crap air damn and stuff below the bumper.  Jaguar has done it too on the XFR.

 

The power and performance looks good, more power than the M3, not the horsepower of the RC-F but Cadillac will beat the Lexus on torque, and Lexus doesn't know how to build performance cars anyway.    BMW loyalists will still buy the M3 on name alone though.  But at least Cadillac put what is basically Corvette level performance into this car.

 

Just repeating what he said

 

Unless Cadillac gets a V sports car like the AMG GT.

 

Not going to happen for 2 reasons.  Development costs too high for a niche product, and can't outshine the Corvette at GM.  GM would never let the Corvette be inferior to a Cadillac sports car.

[Z-06]

 

Just repeating what he said

 

Unless Cadillac gets a V sports car like the AMG GT.

 

Not going to happen for 2 reasons.  Development costs too high for a niche product, and can't outshine the Corvette at GM.  GM would never let the Corvette be inferior to a Cadillac sports car.

 

Oh darn, and I was day dreaming for a down payment. May as well get a Chevroletdes Benz.

[Cmicasa the Great]

 

 

Johann also stated last night that there are more V-Series coming.

 

There is the CTS-V for Detroit, which is a given. Other than that there is nothing really, unless SRX and Escalade get a V treatment.

 

 

XTS-V. Calling It!

 

 

 

Call this. Escalade will finally get a HI-PO variant. Bet money on it. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

The spoiler is too big and looks tacky.  Not a fan of the hood with the bulge and air intake, it looks like something from a Pontiac.  The lower grille is too big, the upper grille too small.  I don't get my car makers do that, Cadillac isn't alone there, but why make your grille smaller to show off the crap air damn and stuff below the bumper.  Jaguar has done it too on the XFR.

 

The power and performance looks good, more power than the M3, not the horsepower of the RC-F but Cadillac will beat the Lexus on torque, and Lexus doesn't know how to build performance cars anyway.    BMW loyalists will still buy the M3 on name alone though.  But at least Cadillac put what is basically Corvette level performance into this car.

 

Just repeating what he said

 

Unless Cadillac gets a V sports car like the AMG GT.

 

Not going to happen for 2 reasons.  Development costs too high for a niche product, and can't outshine the Corvette at GM.  GM would never let the Corvette be inferior to a Cadillac sports car.

 

 

I think U're wrong. I think that U are just hoping that Cadillac walks away from thought and never looks back. And while I don't think we will see a C7 based Cadillac, and the C7 program is supposed to be short, I think the C8 will serve the basis for.. or vice-versa, a Cadillac "C" (Cien in English means 100 in turn the Roman numeral is "C")

[smk4565]

I think it would be great if Cadillac made an R8 or Ferrari competitor. Finally then the USA would have a super car, preferably they'd use a V12. But I just can't imagine Cadillac building a low volume $200,000 car that is also a Corvette killer. The Corvette guys egos will get in the way and the bean counters will get in the way.

[G. David Felt]

I think it would be great if Cadillac made an R8 or Ferrari competitor. Finally then the USA would have a super car, preferably they'd use a V12. But I just can't imagine Cadillac building a low volume $200,000 car that is also a Corvette killer. The Corvette guys egos will get in the way and the bean counters will get in the way.

Actually this could very well happen as Cadillac pulls away to be more independent. There is nothing that says Corvette which is Chevy has to be the top supercar in the GM family. Cadillac is where this should happen and I can see it happening.

[balthazar]

Really, this point is academic. Corvette performance is at such an incredible level that 90% of that is more than enough to

1.) Maintain any supposed 'Corvette is King' corporate edict, and

2.) Outperform any Cadillac sports coupe competition.

 

The very important KEY here is to tweak a Corvette chassis to the point it is 'Cadillac Engineered' and non-interchangable with the Corvette/ gets a unique designation. Moronic auto writers & internet armchair critics will be UNABLE TO RESIST making 'Cein'/Corvette comparisons in Every Single Written Piece instead of looking at the Cad objectively. NOT that any component of the Corvette is in any way a detriment, but why quibble over details when they come from a 'Chebby'.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Really, this point is academic. Corvette performance is at such an incredible level that 90% of that is more than enough to

1.) Maintain any supposed 'Corvette is King' corporate edict, and

2.) Outperform any Cadillac sports coupe competition.

 

The very important KEY here is to tweak a Corvette chassis to the point it is 'Cadillac Engineered' and non-interchangable with the Corvette/ gets a unique designation. Moronic auto writers & internet armchair critics will be UNABLE TO RESIST making 'Cein'/Corvette comparisons in Every Single Written Piece instead of looking at the Cad objectively. NOT that any component of the Corvette is in any way a detriment, but why quibble over details when they come from a 'Chebby'.

 

 

^^^ YUP. In truth the Stingray puts down number already that are "Supercar," let alone the Z06. The only thing that the Vette, in fact, lacks at this point to be considered a SUPERCAR is the price. Cadillac could fix this, and charge the proper money for it if they wished now that it is "independent." What GM needs to do is STOP publishing their Platform names. They are quite possibly th only maker on the planet who has platforms that are as well known. This in and of itself leads to a great deal of what U are saying regarding the idiotic media and armchair critics alike.

 

The very thought that an Escalade isn't considered to be on the level of a Range Rover.. because its based off of a Tahoe is ridiculous. Especially when one considers the fact that U can get a Tahoe at damn near the price of the Range Rover.

[smk4565]

The Range Rover would own the Escalade off road though. The Escalade isn't made to be a true off roader. Secondly the Ranger Rover Supercharged has 550 hp and weighs less. Now if they give the Escalade the off road credentials and a 600 horse V-series then it could be game on.

The Corvette is a fast car, but compare it to an Aventador or Ferrari 599 or a McLaren and it isn't even close, let alone something like a Koenigsegg or Pagani Huayra. Depends on where Cadillac would want to go, if Aston Martin Vantage and Jaguar F-type is their target, the Corvette performance level would be enough.

[Drew Dowdell]

The percentage of Range Rovers that go off-road in this country is 0.000000000001% and even then only when they jump a curb at the mall. You don't go off-roading on 24" low profile tires.

[William Maley]

The Range Rover would own the Escalade off road though. The Escalade isn't made to be a true off roader. Secondly the Ranger Rover Supercharged has 550 hp and weighs less. Now if they give the Escalade the off road credentials and a 600 horse V-series then it could be game on.

 

Quick question: How many Range Rovers do you see tackle the trail?

 

I like the Range Rover a lot. I drove one earlier this year with the Supercharged V6 and was really surprised how it went and how nicely appointed it was. But the only time I would use the four-wheel drive is when my road hasn't been plowed. Also, the new Escalade is pretty impressive for what it is and comes slight less in price.

[Z-06]

The Range Rover would own the Escalade off road though. The Escalade isn't made to be a true off roader. Secondly the Ranger Rover Supercharged has 550 hp and weighs less. Now if they give the Escalade the off road credentials and a 600 horse V-series then it could be game on.

The Corvette is a fast car, but compare it to an Aventador or Ferrari 599 or a McLaren and it isn't even close, let alone something like a Koenigsegg or Pagani Huayra. Depends on where Cadillac would want to go, if Aston Martin Vantage and Jaguar F-type is their target, the Corvette performance level would be enough.

 

Moving the goal posts as usual, aren't we?

[balthazar]

Drew hit it dead on: range rover has 100% street tires; off road -beyond a front lawn- it would go nowhere.

It's a joke.

[Cmicasa the Great]

The Range Rover would own the Escalade off road though. The Escalade isn't made to be a true off roader. Secondly the Ranger Rover Supercharged has 550 hp and weighs less. Now if they give the Escalade the off road credentials and a 600 horse V-series then it could be game on.

The Corvette is a fast car, but compare it to an Aventador or Ferrari 599 or a McLaren and it isn't even close, let alone something like a Koenigsegg or Pagani Huayra. Depends on where Cadillac would want to go, if Aston Martin Vantage and Jaguar F-type is their target, the Corvette performance level would be enough.

 

 

Off-Road? Please do tell when was the last time U saw a $85K Range Rover going off road with exception to pulling up on the grassy knoll of lil Bobby's soccer game. U must be smoking some gooooooooooooood sh!t cause I get out and wipe down my $67K Yukon just for the sake of a little dust jumping up on it. 

 

Also, get back in your time machine Francis. The Stingray can handle a 599.. the Z06 will murder it. I'll give U credit for bringing in the $1,000,000+ 10 cars a year makers to help U try and plead a case. In fact... Why didn't U just bring up the Veyron and present your case as to why Chevy is inferior battling the $2.3 Million car?

[smk4565]

It doesn't matter how many Range Rover drivers take it off road, what matters is that it can do it.  The approach and departure angles, max water fording depth, terrain recognition system, adjustable height suspension, hill decent system, locking differential, etc make it an off roader.  Most SUVs aren't made like that. 

 

I still think it unlikely that Cadillac makes a V-series only sports car, even if they pit it against the F-type and AMG GT and use the Corvette as the basis. 

[balthazar]

It can't do it; it has rubber band tires with no tread. It's like a submarine with no props. 

[Cmicasa the Great]

It doesn't matter how many Range Rover drivers take it off road, what matters is that it can do it.  The approach and departure angles, max water fording depth, terrain recognition system, adjustable height suspension, hill decent system, locking differential, etc make it an off roader.  Most SUVs aren't made like that. 

 

I still think it unlikely that Cadillac makes a V-series only sports car, even if they pit it against the F-type and AMG GT and use the Corvette as the basis. 

 

 

 

It matters a whole bunch. I'm dying to see the day when this can go anywhere else but the streets

 

 

Problem with U Smoky is that U are epitome of the wooly masses. U believe everything that the European.. or in this case.. Indian, car makers tell U.

[Drew Dowdell]

Suburban / Escalade water fording depth = 20"

Range Rover water fording depth = 21.6"

Not a huge difference to the average buyer of either of these vehicles

[G. David Felt]

The Range Rover would own the Escalade off road though. The Escalade isn't made to be a true off roader. Secondly the Ranger Rover Supercharged has 550 hp and weighs less. Now if they give the Escalade the off road credentials and a 600 horse V-series then it could be game on.

The Corvette is a fast car, but compare it to an Aventador or Ferrari 599 or a McLaren and it isn't even close, let alone something like a Koenigsegg or Pagani Huayra. Depends on where Cadillac would want to go, if Aston Martin Vantage and Jaguar F-type is their target, the Corvette performance level would be enough.

CALLING BS!

 

Yes many here think Range Rover is superior off road and yet I know for a fact that My Escalade ESV Platinum has gone off road in places where Range Rovers are said to be able to go and yet I have never seen one and I do find more Range Rovers stuck on passes in snow, yet this is probably due to stupid run flat performance tires and the idiots not knowing how to drive, but Escalades are more than up to the task of going off road.

 

No it is not a true 4x4 but then the supercharge over priced over rated Range Rover is not either and I doubt you would find someone taking their $100K SUV mudding.

 

Range Rover has some cool technology and in real off road trim does well but then so does any of GM's true 4x4 units. I have never seen a Range Rover on the Rubicon trail, but I have seen Tahoe's and Yukon's. You want creds then get Range Rover to really play in the 4x4 space rather than show off an Engineering spec sheet of what it supposedly can do.

[dwightlooi]

Not a bad looking car overall. Looks fabulous particularly in White and Silver. Modern, with nice clean lines, no clutter, no gimmick. Everything but that rear spoiler looks great. The spoiler looks tagged on and do not integrate well with the rest of the car -- something like the previous gen CTS-V Coupe would have been much, much better. It looks like something from Pepboys really... but, the spoiler probably wouldn't cost more than $500 to remove, have a body shop weld up the mounting holes, smooth and repaint the trunk lid. Given the excellent handling characteristics of the regular ATS the fact that GM took their time to tune and sort of the V-car before launching it -- two full years. I am confident this car will have no trouble keeping up with the Ultimate Driving Machines in the twisties.

Absolutely lousy power train choice though. The 3.6L (LF3) Twin-Turbo V6 is in every way inferior to the 6.2L (LT1) V8 from the Corvette. The V6 weighs more than the V8 (485 lbs vs 465 lbs), it takes up more room under the hood than the V8, it cost more than the V8, it has some turbo-lag whereas the V8 has none, it makes no more power than the V8, it makes less torque than the V8 and it's fuel economy numbers are no better than the Pushrod V8. That bulge in the hood aft of the vents would not have been necessary if the V8 was used for instance allowing for even sleeker lines and having 20 lbs less mass hanging in the front will improve vehicle balance. Being turbocharged, GM is also opening itself to warranty abuse by individuals who will re-flash the ECU with some aftermarket hack which over-boosts the engine, shorten the life of its components, then -- when times go awry -- revert to stock programming and show up at a dealer for warranty repair. In short, it is inferior in every measure. This is before we even take into account the desirability of 8-cylinders with certain buyers and more importantly the lack of competition fielding 8-pots and a large swept volume. The Pushrod V8 is a technological marvel that dominates DOHC designs in terms of making the most power from the most compact and lightest engine package while delivering superior fuel economy. GM should embrace it not run away from it just be be more like the Europeans. Oh well, I guess it could have been worse -- they could have dropped in the CTS V-sport engine without any upgrades to the internals or output.

[dwightlooi]

I still think it unlikely that Cadillac makes a V-series only sports car, even if they pit it against the F-type and AMG GT and use the Corvette as the basis. 

 

I think it'll be a really nice addition to the Caddy lineup if they make a Caddy version of the C7 Corvette. Unlike the Vette, the Caddy can be offered with different engine choices. The 3.6L V6 for people who just want a boulevard cruiser and maybe a 7.2L V12 for folks who want a 640hp car with lots of cylinders and a middle finger to the Global Warming scammers and Carbon Emissions morons.

[smk4565]

A Cadillac sports car or grand tourer would be a nice edition, I just don't think they will make one.  Especially not as a stand alone model, like a mid-engine V12 super car.  Maybe as a rebadged Corvette, but that experiment failed the first time around.  And I still think the Corvette guys don't want Cadillac selling a version of the Corvette that is faster, more luxurious, more refined and all around better car.

 

What Cadillac should have done for the ATS-V is make a 4.0 liter twin turbo V8 based of the 2.0T engines they have already, that would have given them a 500 hp, 500 lb-ft engine that they could have hand built for V-series cars, it would cost more, but it would have had credibility.  

[Cmicasa the Great]

A Cadillac sports car or grand tourer would be a nice edition, I just don't think they will make one.  Especially not as a stand alone model, like a mid-engine V12 super car.  Maybe as a rebadged Corvette, but that experiment failed the first time around.  And I still think the Corvette guys don't want Cadillac selling a version of the Corvette that is faster, more luxurious, more refined and all around better car.

 

What Cadillac should have done for the ATS-V is make a 4.0 liter twin turbo V8 based of the 2.0T engines they have already, that would have given them a 500 hp, 500 lb-ft engine that they could have hand built for V-series cars, it would cost more, but it would have had credibility.  

 

 

Cost is the reason. The price point has to be within the same realm as the Mseries, possibly lower, or we will have people like U cry about said price despite coming here in this very thread and saying that they should do something that would make it cost more. That being said.. the 3.6L TT is good for way more than 500HP. Cadillac didn't want to have a hi-po powered car having over heating issues, while still trying to stay within the confines of a certain price. No matter.. this car is fast, powerful, and sexy.. and anyone believing their estimated 3.9sec 0-60 time I have would like to sell U a warehouse full of fleece line Parkas to be sold exclusively in Phoenix, Arizona.

[Cmicasa the Great]

BTW.. I see U still have no comeback for the various shoot downs of your Range Rover tackling the elements yet. EMBARRASSING. My Impala would have had no problem with this:

 

 

Edited November 24, 2014 by Cmicasa the Great

[Drew Dowdell]

I dunno, that Rover is high centered.  In theory, he should have been able to set the air suspension to high... 

[smk4565]

That looks like a Range Rover Sport, which is really an LR3, and they probably have bad tires in it. Put mud and snow tires on it and it will out perform almost any other SUV.

[Drew Dowdell]

That looks like a Range Rover Sport, which is really an LR3, and they probably have bad tires in it. Put mud and snow tires on it and it will out perform almost any other SUV.

 

Or, like I said, it is high centered on the snow.  

[Cmicasa the Great]

That looks like a Range Rover Sport, which is really an LR3, and they probably have bad tires in it. Put mud and snow tires on it and it will out perform almost any other SUV.

 

 

Nope.. doesn't work like that. The BS marketing and perception is that Range Rover, out the box, is the Off-Road queen. It is not. LR is selling them with street tires not snow tires. If I put snow tires on my Stingray I'm capable of this:

 

 

 

Just stop it. Admit that your Euro brands are not the end all be all and be done with it. 

Edited November 24, 2014 by Cmicasa the Great

[Cmicasa the Great]

I dunno, that Rover is high centered.  In theory, he should have been able to set the air suspension to high... 

 

 

in theory it still is embarrasing that so many are so unknowledgeble about the vehicle they bought. I mean there were no less than 5 people out there who apparently had no clue as to ask about the adjustment. Furthermore I doubt that they tires were bald like Smky said being in that part of NYC. Most driving in what looks to be Manhattan.. a RR, no less, are usually up on the maintenance.

[Drew Dowdell]

Well, he has PA tags, so he doesn't live in NYC.

[dwightlooi]

A Cadillac sports car or grand tourer would be a nice edition, I just don't think they will make one.  Especially not as a stand alone model, like a mid-engine V12 super car.  Maybe as a rebadged Corvette, but that experiment failed the first time around.  And I still think the Corvette guys don't want Cadillac selling a version of the Corvette that is faster, more luxurious, more refined and all around better car.

 

What Cadillac should have done for the ATS-V is make a 4.0 liter twin turbo V8 based of the 2.0T engines they have already, that would have given them a 500 hp, 500 lb-ft engine that they could have hand built for V-series cars, it would cost more, but it would have had credibility.  

 

A V12 -- presumably based on the (LFX) 3.6 V6 will make about 640 bhp. That is about the same as the Z06. But it wouldn't be faster because the DOHC V12 will invariably be heavier and put out "only" about 550 lb-ft of twist. It will however be more refined in the sense that you have much close firing pulses from 12-cylinders and being essentially two inline-6s it is perfectly balanced just line an I6 is.

 

Using a V8 based on the (LTG) 2.0T is an option. But power will be down even more. The LTG makes 270 bhp in the ATS. Doubling that is "only" 540 bhp / 590 lb-ft. Not bad but not exactly Z06 territory. Being a DOHC powerplant expect the 4.0 V8 to weigh as much if not more than the Pushrod V8.

 

Now, the "practical" thing to do however is to introduce no new powertrain bits. Use the LT4 supercharged V8 for the XLR-V. The difference between the Z06 and the XLR-V being that the caddy has a full carbon fiber body shell of caddy's design language powered aerodynamics (rear spoiler and air dam flaps), etc. It should be possible to get another 30~50 bhp out of the engine without much changes, but that is not particularly necessary. In essence the Caddy becomes the cost no object version of the Z06. With the ZR1 gone, people looking to pluck down $120K on a GM sports car is sent to the Caddy dealership.

 

At the same time -- as bad a decision as it may have been -- GM has committed to the Twin-turbo 3.6 for Caddy. It is a natural extension of that decision to power the Caddy version of the Vette -- the entry level XLR with the 3.6 Twin-Turbo. Yes, it's a heavier, laggier, more expensive, no more powerful and no more fuel miserly engine. Yes, it is inferior in every way. But it makes about the same amount of power and that is close enough. If anything it gives buyers a choice between a Chevy branded rocket ship with the V8 or a Caddy branded sled with the TT V6. The Chevy is likely 0.1 or 0.2 sec faster to 60 and offer more direct throttle control and feel. But, hey, they are both comparably fast cars and styled quite differently.

[Cmicasa the Great]

Well, he has PA tags, so he doesn't live in NYC.

Making it worse. as PA gets snow just as bad if not worse. LOL.. I get your point.. but considering Smky's ideology.. it shouldn't be stuck even if it were riding on tires made of banana peels