Edmunds: Long-term Cobalt update

[Flybrian]

And mainstream to bash them? That's even funnier... I bash them because I've ridden in one and got to look at more than a few. Compared to other cars, it's not the best.

W...o...w...

[regfootball]

Ions are like Azteks. While they have a tendency to pick up buyers who love them because beneath everything you have to look at, are good vehicles, even if there may be better ones. However, come back to the styling and cheapness of it, inside and out, and I can only shudder in a laughable state of disbelief. It never fails, whether checking out an Aztek or an Ion.

And close-minded? Haha... I won't deny that there are a few people out there who are, but there are better cars out there, regardless of styling. Include styling, and there's no question to it. But alas, the Cobalt's one of those better cars.

And mainstream to bash them? That's even funnier... I bash them because I've ridden in one and got to look at more than a few. Compared to other cars, it's not the best.

Reality is a bitch.

i dunno, the aztek i own, the interior is one of the nicest that GM has offered. Nice seat cloth, interesting features. Nice gauges. The seats are supportive.

Your 'theory' must explain why I've always liked the Ion also. HMMM.

Styling is subjective. When I considered whether we wanted a minivan or an SUV and then factoring in budget and the alternatives, the Aztek came into Vue. Room, space, comfort, nice interior for a lot less than Toyota. Would I have preferred a Highlander? Absolutley not. The interior on that is dull and ugly. The Aztek's is much nicer.

The Aztek isn't beautiful but from some angles, its not too bad. Show me a van or SUV that's completely attractive anyways. A Tribeca? A murano? PLEASE.

The Ion I prefer to the Cobalt in many ways. Plastic doors, unique interior (has to be the right color). In some ways I prefer the Cobalt.

I wouldn't say to those owners 'what were they thinking' because some owners place greater importance on the selection of a car than just looks.

[regfootball]

That's an early ION interior shot, and a top-of-the-line, SRT-4 Neon shot, not a fair photographic comparison.  The ION interior now has a much better looking steering wheel, better color coordination, nicer graining in the plastics and a smattering of brightwork.  It really is amazing how little money can be spent to make an interior look a lot better.

exactly. with the metal trim and nicer plastic and better steering wheel the latest Ion is not bad. I would LOVE a 2.4/manual sedan to tool around town in. It'd be even more fun if it had a redline powertrain.

[regfootball]

this really isn't as heinous as everyone makes it out to be. It could be an Element or RAV4, now that would suck.

[haypops]

Styling is subjective.  When I considered whether we wanted a minivan or an SUV and then factoring in budget and the alternatives, the Aztek came into Vue.  Room, space, comfort, nice interior for a lot less than Toyota.  Would I have preferred a Highlander?  Absolutley not.  The interior on that is dull and ugly.  The Aztek's is much nicer.

You bring up a lot of good points. Certainly the later Azteks looked better than the earlier ones, but really is the Buick Rendevous that so many here like that much better. Of course not.

I hope FOG doesn't read this. He is right some times. The media killed the Aztek. I read the crap about it and believed it. I ususally form my own opinions but I got fooled on the Aztek. When it first came out I was looking at one in the show room while I was getting my wife's car serviced. A salesman ingaged me in conversation about the Aztek and I lauged at it. As I was ridicuing it, a little voice in the back of my mind was saying something different to me. I thought about that car more than once when they were heavily discounted.

[The O.C.]

this really isn't as heinous as everyone makes it out to be.  It could be an Element or RAV4, now that would suck.

Thanks.....now my recently-eaten lunch is all over the kitchen table......<wiping off the laptop>

[Guest YellowJacket894]

A pretty good review.

I checked out a black Cobalt coupe with a value package that went for $12,000. If I can't get an F-Body, I think I'll go for this.

[regfootball]

You bring up a lot of good points.  Certainly the later Azteks looked better than the earlier ones, but really is the Buick Rendevous that so many here like that much better.  Of course not.

I hope FOG doesn't read this.  He is right some times.  The media killed the Aztek.  I read the crap about it and believed it.  I ususally form my own opinions but I got fooled on the Aztek. When it first came out I was looking at one in the show room while I was getting my wife's car serviced.  A salesman ingaged me in conversation about the Aztek and I lauged at it.  As I was ridicuing it, a little voice in the back of my mind was saying something different to me.  I thought about that car more than once when they were heavily discounted.

the cladding was the issue. they eventually made it body color and toned the seat cloth down.

[regfootball]

A pretty good review.

I checked out a black Cobalt coupe with a value package that went for $12,000. If I can't get an F-Body, I think I'll go for this.

the import bangers will tell you you can do so much better for 12 grand but i am one to say that 12 grand for a cobalt is a great value on a very nice car.

[regfootball]

Thanks.....now my recently-eaten lunch is all over the kitchen table......<wiping off the laptop>

this would make you lose it for sure

[Cory Wolfe]

In many ways, the ION is like an Aztec, although not everyone on God's green earth thinks of it as ugly, like they do the aztec. As for the gauges, I'm sorry, but they are a great feature. I would choose them over conventional gauges any day of the week. Maybe its because when you actually get to drive the car more than 5 mins (AKA test drive) you appreciate them that much more. I can't tell you how great it is not to have to move my hand(s) every 2 mins to look at my gauges properly. Also, on the net, I hear countless times of people bashing the center IP. You know what? I go by real-world opinions, and truth is, I've had alot of compliments as well. It only makes me feel better about my purchase, but it was never a deciding factor for me. The ION is truly a great car. Mechanically, its a great car, exactly the same as a cobalt underneath. I don't know how one feels different than the other since they share all the same parts except for the different strut assemblies up front, and different torsion-beam revisions in rear. Materials look and feel better in the cobalt, but you also pay more for a cobalt than you do an ION. Alone, I think the polymer on the ION far outweighs any advantage that the cobalt has over it. Just makes me smile to know my car will still look new in 6-7 years compared to the average cobalt that will start corroding by that time (or even sooner). Yep, reality is a bitch.

Time to move on from the 80's... most new cars won't corrode without help. Even then... my 95 GA is completely rust and corrosion free and I live in the land of salty winter driving. The only thing those polymer panels really have an advantage in is keeping the body dent and ding free. Corrosion/rust isn't a big factor and it certainly can't protect against scratches or chips to the paint. Combine that with the huge panel gaps, ones bigger than the ones on my 11 year old GA, and I don't see what's the big deal about polymer panels. Especially when the design makes it more than obvious that it's plastic... err... polymer.

As for the gauges... heh, I still greatly prefer regular mounted gauges. I'd rather move my hands than look down and over, further taking my eyes off the road.

W...o...w...

Explain to me otherwise, then. What? I have to live with a car for 2 years to be able to give an opinion on it? Please... It's not like you have never done what I just did. So what's your excuse for posting?

i dunno, the aztek i own, the interior is one of the nicest that GM has offered.  Nice seat cloth, interesting features.  Nice gauges.  The seats are supportive.

Your 'theory' must explain why I've always liked the Ion also.  HMMM. 

Styling is subjective.  When I considered whether we wanted a minivan or an SUV and then factoring in budget and the alternatives, the Aztek came into Vue.  Room, space, comfort, nice interior for a lot less than Toyota.  Would I have preferred a Highlander?  Absolutley not.  The interior on that is dull and ugly.  The Aztek's is much nicer.

The Aztek isn't beautiful but from some angles, its not too bad.  Show me a van or SUV that's completely attractive anyways.  A Tribeca?  A murano?  PLEASE.

The Ion I prefer to the Cobalt in many ways.  Plastic doors, unique interior (has to be the right color).  In some ways I prefer the Cobalt. 

I wouldn't say to those owners 'what were they thinking' because some owners place greater importance on the selection of a car than just looks.

Obviously...

this would make you lose it for sure

Heh... actually it's not all that bad...

[Flybrian]

xB vs. Aztek? Puleeze.

[regfootball]

Time to move on from the 80's... most new cars won't corrode without help. Even then... my 95 GA is completely rust and corrosion free and I live in the land of salty winter driving. The only thing those polymer panels really have an advantage in is keeping the body dent and ding free. Corrosion/rust isn't a big factor

here in MN you mhave to digiently check used cars, any that are 3-4 years old or older for rust when you look at them. That's one reason why I lean towards new when i shop. Also, when you trade cars, that is what they are looking for. Here, in the land of REAL winter, it matters more than you think.

that said, the plastic panels look less refined.

Edited May 15, 2006 by regfootball

[regfootball]

xB vs. Aztek? Puleeze.

neither has as much cladding as those SSE's did.........

[Cory Wolfe]

Real winters? I never knew there was such a thing as fake winters... damn PA.

Hah.. and that last part was strictly sarcasm. No me gusta toasters.

[saturnd00d]

Time to move on from the 80's... most new cars won't corrode without help. Even then... my 95 GA is completely rust and corrosion free and I live in the land of salty winter driving. The only thing those polymer panels really have an advantage in is keeping the body dent and ding free. Corrosion/rust isn't a big factor and it certainly can't protect against scratches or chips to the paint. Combine that with the huge panel gaps, ones bigger than the ones on my 11 year old GA, and I don't see what's the big deal about polymer panels. Especially when the design makes it more than obvious that it's plastic... err... polymer.

Time to move on from the 80's? Um, I'm only 26. I didn't start driving till '96 BTW. Before then I had no clue about cars other than what I though was 'cool' back then. Anyways, most Hondas, Nissans, Toyotas and pretty much anything Korean made up until the past few years is bound to rust within 4-6 years of original purchase. GM was always one of the few manufacturers that actually cared about the steel they used, whereas most other manufacturers didn't. I would still always prefer polymer panels to steel. I've owned 4 cars in total with my last two being Saturns. No comparison in terms of exterior maintenance. They still scuff and scratch, but with some Scratch-X, most of the stuff buffs out no problems.

See, people who've never owned Saturns never saw the great things that made earlier Saturns true to the name. You always got top notch service no matter which dealership you went to, they offered you more on your trade-ins to 'help you out', the cars were always easy to work on (simple engine layouts), and aside from a few minor issues like oil burning, etc. (not unique to Saturns by the way) they were essentially trouble-free. The only major issue I can think of was the differential pin loosening if you did consistent burnouts or whatever.

In a time where we now place everything on image and value (intertwined), earlier Saturn cues can no longer survive. I can understand that, I mean GM is in this to make money like everyone else, but I can truly say that I appreciate the Saturn experience and will always be true to the division. I may not be able to purchase future products from them since they are now going premium, but my heart stays with them.

As for the gauges... heh, I still greatly prefer regular mounted gauges. I'd rather move my hands than look down and over, further taking my eyes off the road.

Then you obviously haven't driven an ION for more than 30 mins because thats about as long as it takes most people to adjust. Did you know that you take your eyes off the road more when you check your rear-view mirrors than you do looking at those center gauges? Obviously you don't realize that because your "adjusted" to looking at your rear-view mirror since its more an issue of safety and something you have to do. Well, same thing for the gauges, it ends up being second nature. Heh, I don't even have to move my head when looking since the gauges are close to the right side of my eyes. They really aren't that far away. Stop pretending like they are. If you can believe, I've even heard of people saying that they don't want to SHIFT THEIR BODY to the right to see the gauges which is why they don't consider the car. Talk about over-exxageration. Why is it that no one complains about the BMW mini when it comes to gauges? The speedo in them truly is out of the way, not the one in the ION. It's an underappreciated feature that actually goes a long way. If only people could experience the joy in having them like I do. That's their problem, not mine.

[saturnd00d]

that said, the plastic panels look less refined.

This is true, but I feel secure enough to drive what makes me happy, and if this car makes me feel happy driving it, then I will. F#$k everyone else and what they think of me. If people are going to judge me because of a car I drive that looks less refined, then they aren't worth the time.

Hell, I could just drive a Mazda 3, or Toyota corolla, or even Honda civic if I want something more refined looking, but I have driven those cars, and the only one I felt good driving was the 3. I didn't choose it simply because it would have cost me $90 a month more to drive a 3 equipped like my ION is. Both cars were a joy to drive. The others, not so much. I felt like falling asleep behind the wheel they were that boring.

[Cory Wolfe]

Time to move on from the 80's? Um, I'm only 26. I didn't start driving till '96 BTW. Before then I had no clue about cars other than what I though was 'cool' back then. Anyways, most Hondas, Nissans, Toyotas and pretty much anything Korean made up until the past few years is bound to rust within 4-6 years of original purchase. GM was always one of the few manufacturers that actually cared about the steel they used, whereas most other manufacturers didn't. I would still always prefer polymer panels to steel. I've owned 4 cars in total with my last two being Saturns. No comparison in terms of exterior maintenance. They still scuff and scratch, but with some Scratch-X, most of the stuff buffs out no problems.

Well, you are acting as if everything with steel is rust/corrosion prone crap and Saturn was the second coming of god or something...

Again, most, if not all, cars are rust-proof today. I know GMs are for sure, atleast.

See, people who've never owned Saturns never saw the great things that made earlier Saturns true to the name. You always got top notch service no matter which dealership you went to, they offered you more on your trade-ins to 'help you out', the cars were always easy to work on (simple engine layouts), and aside from a few minor issues like oil burning, etc. (not unique to Saturns by the way) they were essentially trouble-free. The only major issue I can think of was the differential pin loosening if you did consistent burnouts or whatever.

Well, I have no qualms about earlier Saturns. I'd consider a 95 SC2 if I found one in excellent condition in my area, but even the sedans were nice. The thing is... the S-series was actually better than any other compact GM offered and wasn't an ugly and cheap looking mis-mash of plastic styled car that wasn't better than it's platform mates.

In a time where we now place everything on image and value (intertwined), earlier Saturn cues can no longer survive. I can understand that, I mean GM is in this to make money like everyone else, but I can truly say that I appreciate the Saturn experience and will always be true to the division. I may not be able to purchase future products from them since they are now going premium, but my heart stays with them.

If GM hadn't let the brand go on with only one model for so long, and then started giving it mediocre products, maybe those styling cues could have possibly survived. Saturn was a great idea in the beginning, but GM let it go to waste.

Then you obviously haven't driven an ION for more than 30 mins because thats about as long as it takes most people to adjust. Did you know that you take your eyes off the road more when you check your rear-view mirrors than you do looking at those center gauges? Obviously you don't realize that because your "adjusted" to looking at your rear-view mirror since its more an issue of safety and something you have to do. Well, same thing for the gauges, it ends up being second nature. Heh, I don't even have to move my head when looking since the gauges are close to the right side of my eyes. They really aren't that far away. Stop pretending like they are. If you can believe, I've even heard of people saying that they don't want to SHIFT THEIR BODY to the right to see the gauges which is why they don't consider the car. Talk about over-exxageration. Why is it that no one complains about the BMW mini when it comes to gauges? The speedo in them truly is out of the way, not the one in the ION. It's an underappreciated feature that actually goes a long way. If only people could experience the joy in having them like I do. That's their problem, not mine.

Heh... the only place where it's useful to look into a rear view mirror is a in a city or highway setting. I live back in the country on dangerously curvy roads where strict concentration on the road is needed. Perhaps that's why I don't need to be glancing over to center mounted gauges to check simple things like RPMs, temp, etc. It's easier to just quickly glance slightly down from the road, instead of having to focus my attention to the right. And I realize they aren't that far away, I'm not acting like they are. Again, normally your eye sight is still focused straight ahead, but with center mounted gauges you have to focus to the right and essentially off the road (not literally, obviously). Although, I do think having to shift your body is a major exaggeration.

As for the Mini, it's actually a cool car and the Tach is mounted (necessary since I only drive manual trannies) behind the steering wheel, as usual. Again, greatly prefer non center mounted gauges.

[haypops]

the only place where it's useful to look into a rear view mirror is a in a city or highway setting. I live back in the country on dangerously curvy roads where strict concentration on the road is needed.

It's easier to just quickly glance slightly down from the road, instead of having to focus my attention to the right.

Again, normally your eye sight is still focused straight ahead, but with center mounted gauges you have to focus to the right and essentially off the road (not literally, obviously).

At the very least you should consider driving only in daylight hours with a licensed driver next to you. I don't mean to be mean, but you just don't get it.

Edited May 15, 2006 by haypops

[Intrepidation]

I still prefer gauges behind the steering wheel. I'm used to it...plus The design looks better. that's juts an opinion though.

[The O.C.]

this would make you lose it for sure

I'm sure you know I was just giving you &#036;h&#33;.....

[Cory Wolfe]

At the very least you should consider driving only  in daylight hours with a  licensed driver next to you.  I don't mean to be mean, but you just don't get it.

Don't get what, exactly? Enlighten me, please.

[Chicagoland]

Saturn is ditching plastic panels, all you dwindling SL hippies. So your whole point is moot. And that dash is a monstrosity.

And want a real winter, go to Alsaka.

When the last Ion is made, Saturn will be better off.

Edited May 17, 2006 by Chicagoland

[deftonesfan867]

I've been through crappy winters when I live in northern Wisconsin and most cars, even those only a few years old, would have quite a bit of rust unless they were taken care of, kept in a garage and washed frequently of course. See alot of 4x4's all rusted up, but you knew they could handle the snow. *Dreams of when him and the exwife would go to town w/ a foot of snow on the road driving there 91 s-10 blazer 4x4*

[MyerShift]

Plus for chevy!...Now if someone would notice the ion..which is the same!

Same guts, yes, but details do differ. Like the trunk- ION has goose-neck hinges, and the Cobalt has the Multilink-Strut thing going on, but they are meant to be two different cars. If not, why it would be badge-engineering, and we all hate that here, right?

I think that the ION's centre stack is cool. Plus, its amber backlighting is very similar to that in my Breeze.

While sitting in a Red Line model in Ft. Wayne, it seems fine to have the gauges there, and this model was comfortable and seemed solid- the doors shut with a thunk, and no plastic trim was a-flappin'.

Edited May 28, 2006 by MyerShift

[MyerShift]

You know what looks cool?

Is that a Lancer?

One of the many K-derived Chryslers that I would like to own.

[BuddyP]

MyerShift, I am from Coldwater, MI myself. Live down in Angola, IN now.

[MyerShift]

Right on.

After hangin' at Clear Lake for the afternoon, some friends and I went to Angola to get some ice cream "downtown" in the circle.

Angola is also where I had my orthadontic work performed.

[NeonLX]

I've related this before but we rented an early production Cobalt LT sedan last summer when we visited Alaska. We drove the thing all over the state and across all kinds of road surfaces, putting 2000 miles on it in the process. We were hugely impressed. The car performed well, provided good performance with excellent fuel economy, and maybe best of all, it was comfortable for three people. I thought the interior quality was first rate (our rental had leather + wood trim interior).

If something happened to my Neon, I'd definitely look at a slightly used Cobalt to replace it.