NG Malibu

[KillFort]

Ok,

I'm sure everyone remembers the thread on the NG Malibu. It was quite the hot topic... but their were lots of conflicting reports from various insiders.

So, I ask anybody out there what the latest word is? Is the NG Malibu still on for Epsilon I or did GM delay it to redo it for the Epsilon II platform or cancel it all together? Will GM ever put a rush on things for their mainstream cars and not SUVs or niche vehicles?

How far along are they? The new Malibu can't come soon enough IMO. Structurally, I believe the current car is of quality but design wise I've never liked it--interior or exterior.

Any updates, hints, answers are welcome. Thanks in advance.

[Croc]

MY2008 is the latest I heard. GM shouldn't put rushes on these...since that leads to cost cutting and $h!ty final product. Let's be patient and let it be released when it's ready...

Edited May 2, 2006 by Croc

[regfootball]

it needs to be good. current mali is too small, doesn't look great inside or out, it needs better powertrains.

but, the current one is solid and gives good value for the dollar. Unfortunately that's not enough.

[Petra]

As I understood it, the MY 2008 Malibu (perhaps an early '08?) will be a major refresh, along the lines of the '96 Ford Taurus or '01 Dodge Stratus: Everything changes but the most basic stuff, like the platform, powertrains, etc. Then, sometime around MY 2010, an all new Malibu will arrive.

That is what I gathered from the thread, anyway. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Intrepidation]

As I understood it, the MY 2008 Malibu (perhaps an early '08?) will be a major refresh, along the lines of the '96 Ford Taurus or '01 Dodge Stratus: Everything changes but the most basic stuff, like the platform, powertrains, etc. Then, sometime around MY 2010, an all new Malibu will arrive.

That is what I gathered from the thread, anyway. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

The Stratus was a refesh? But it grew quite abit...looked like a redesign, I always thought it was. I could be wrong, I just never knew otherwise.

[Croc]

As I understood it, the MY 2008 Malibu (perhaps an early '08?) will be a major refresh, along the lines of the '96 Ford Taurus or '01 Dodge Stratus: Everything changes but the most basic stuff, like the platform, powertrains, etc. Then, sometime around MY 2010, an all new Malibu will arrive.

That is what I gathered from the thread, anyway. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

That sounds about right, though I do not know if it will be 2010...might be 11. Edited May 2, 2006 by Croc

[VenSeattle]

Everything I remember pointed to the NG Malibu to be in EpsII. Malibu would be the first on EPSII, then LaCrosse, then Aura. There wasn't a confirmation of a "next G6" at the time.

And yes, the Chrysler cloud cars are still on the same platform now as they were in 1995.

[Paolino]

That sounds about right, though I do not know if it will be 2010...might be 11.

Everything I remember pointed to the NG Malibu to be in EpsII. Malibu would be the first on EPSII, then LaCrosse, then Aura. There wasn't a confirmation of a "next G6" at the time.

And yes, the Chrysler cloud cars are still on the same platform now as they were in 1995.

Well, if the LaCrosse is second on the Epsilon II platform, there's no way the NG Malibu would be in 2011... because that would mean the next generation LaCrosse wouldn't debut before 2012, and that gives it a 7-year model life on the W-platform, using a 4-speed automatic transmission. Nope. Not gonna happen. That's suicide. Edited May 2, 2006 by Paolino

[Croc]

No. Paulie...you're reading that wrong...LaCrosse is coming in 2009...It isn't pegged as "the 2nd EPII," rather it is the second EPII as a result of an EPII possibly being scheduled for release in 2008. If there is an unforseen delay in the first...the two would be released together.

Edited May 2, 2006 by Croc

[Paolino]

No. Paulie...you're reading that wrong...LaCrosse is coming in 2009...It isn't pegged as "the 2nd EPII," rather it is the second EPII as a result of an EPII being scheduled for release in 2008.  If there is an unforseen delay in the first...the two would be released together.

OH! See, now that makes more sense. Thanks

So, now I'm confused... that means we're getting the new LaCrosse grille for one model year? 2008? Sigh. Was hoping it would have been 2007, but we've learned that's not going to happen.

Okay, getting back to the topic... what's concerning me is that the Malibu will never truly be a Camry/Accord/Altima fighter--or at least very good at it. It does alright, but it's not exactly up to par with the others. Bumping it up in quality/design/options... well, then you have problems competing with the Aura. And bumping the Aura up a notch, well, then you might be in LaCrosse territory. I'm anxious to see what GM has in store over the next few years.

[loki]

'08 is shaping up to be one heck of a year for gm :wink:

edit: smily

Edited May 2, 2006 by loki

[Croc]

Disagree. Malibu should be the Camcord fighter. AURA could be up another level by going after VW. Honestly...SAAB and Saturn are going to be VERY similar in the future...which worries me. SAAB could get by basically by being a more sport-tuned Saturn...but still the marketplace differentiation between them will be very narrow. Oh well. LaCrosse should really be ES350-ish.

[Paolino]

Disagree.  Malibu should be the Camcord fighter.  AURA could be up another level by going after VW.  Honestly...SAAB and Saturn are going to be VERY similar in the future...which worries me.  SAAB could get by basically by being a more sport-tuned Saturn...but still the marketplace differentiation between them will be very narrow.  Oh well.  LaCrosse should really be ES350-ish.

Well, I agree--it's time for GM to get their act together. Well, seems as they are, but let's hope they stay on the right track.

[CSpec]

Last I heard the 2008 Malibu is on Epsilon I and will be around until 2011 or so. The Lacrosse will be one of the first Epsilon IIs (if not the first) in the US, starting production in winter 2009.

[Croc]

Last I heard the 2008 Malibu is on Epsilon I and will be around until 2011 or so. The Lacrosse will be one of the first Epsilon IIs (if not the first) in the US, starting production in winter 2009.

That's what I've been hearing...that due to the funding issues the 2008 will be a major refresh and the 2011 will be the rear EPII Malibu.

AURA EPII is 2010

LaCrosse is 2009

9-3 will prolly be 2009 or 2010

[Ravenfreak13]

And yes, the Chrysler cloud cars are still on the same platform now as they were in 1995.

I never knew that! If you really look at the exterior and interior...you can see the simalarities.

[Intrepidation]

I never knew that! If you really look at the exterior and interior...you can  see the simalarities.

Yeah, but the 2001 and up look a lot bigger to me. It's so weird that they are on the same platform.

[Robert Hall]

Well, if the LaCrosse is second on the Epsilon II platform, there's no way the NG Malibu would be in 2011... because that would mean the next generation LaCrosse wouldn't debut before 2012, and that gives it a 7-year model life on the W-platform, using a 4-speed automatic transmission.  Nope.  Not gonna happen.  That's suicide.

Then again, the LaCrosse's immediate predecessor (Century/Regal) had an 8 yr run with the W-body and minimal changes...

[GMFAN83]

E2 Rollout

2008

Chevrolet Malibu

2009

Pontiac G6 & Buick Allure(LaCrosse)

2010

Saturn Aura & Cadillac BTS(BLS)

Edited May 2, 2006 by GMFAN83

[Croc]

E2 Rollout

2008

Chevrolet Malibu

2009

Pontiac G6 & Buick Allure(LaCrosse)

2010

Saturn Aura & Cadillac BTS(BLS)

Do you have the program codes? I ask because so far there is no EPII G6 planned and the Malibu has been bumped to 2011 with a heavy MCE in 2008. This is per the latest info (as of March 2006) that I have seen. Edited May 2, 2006 by Croc

[GMFAN83]

No I didn't know that. I made the assumption that Buick wouuld recieve a new midsize car at the same time as Pontiac. Sorry.

W Body is dead after 2008 my. So, Buick and Pontiac will need at least revamped Epsilon 1s.

Saturn's Aura would be first to be on E2?

Where is the lattest excel sheet located?

[GMFAN83]

More Epsilon News

Here's more Info. GM's E2 platform will be out all at once during the 2010 my. I'd expect the Malibu to come as early as late spring 2009. The Pontiac G6 & Buick LaCrosse in Late Summer & the Saturn Aura by Fall of 2009. Ther's no word on a Cadillac E2 just yet but, it will likely come out during the 2010 my if it does.

[Croc]

I read the GMI article, and a lot of speculation is being passed off as fact. Again, no Pontiac is planned as of now.

[GMFAN83]

Well, thats not good, thanx for the info Croc. Later man.

[ZL-1]

I read the GMI article, and a lot of speculation is being passed off as fact.  Again, no Pontiac is planned as of now.

My conclusion would be that either Pontiac is really facing termination, or the lineup will be radically overhauled. I mean, the G6 is Pontiac's volume seller, right? And it doesn't make any sense to leave your volume seller in a void, does it?

EDIT: re the NG Malibu, I am expecting a substantial update, both in terms of styling and percieved quality. Some inspiration from the 'good old days' in the style department might make a real difference: it's something Japanese brands cannot leverage in their favour, but GM can do it.

Edited May 2, 2006 by ZL-1

[91z4me]

My conclusion would be that either Pontiac is really facing termination, or the lineup will be radically overhauled. I mean, the G6 is Pontiac's volume seller, right? And it doesn't make any sense to leave your volume seller in a void, does it?

I too am expecting big things out of Pontiac, IF Lutz can get the funding for something radical. I am hoping that the poll on GM Fastlane really meant something and that Kappa II will become a versitile reality. I am a man of big dreams I guess.

EDIT: re the NG Malibu, I am expecting a substantial update, both in terms of styling and percieved quality. Some inspiration from the 'good old days' in the style department might make a real difference: it's something Japanese brands cannot leverage in their favour, but GM can do it.

I think the substancial re-fresh was pushed back because it was to close to the launch of EPII and didn't make financial sense. I thought that is what the thread finally sorted out.

If GM is going to refresh the current Malibu I say leave the rear end alone as it is not to rough on the eyes, put in a new dash, maybe a copy of the BLS's with the current console, and get some new headlights on the car as they just DON'T fit the car at all, and yes I know that the front fenders and bumper would require change as well. Put something like the Cobalt's lights on there to bring it in line with the rest of the family.

[ZL-1]

I too am expecting big things out of Pontiac, IF Lutz can get the funding for something radical.  I am hoping that the poll on GM Fastlane really meant something and that Kappa II will become a versitile reality.  I am a man of big dreams I guess.

I think the substancial re-fresh was pushed back because it was to close to the launch of EPII and didn't make financial sense.  I thought that is what the thread finally sorted out.

If GM is going to refresh the current Malibu I say leave the rear end alone as it is not to rough on the eyes, put in a new dash, maybe a copy of the BLS's with the current console, and get some new headlights on the car as they just DON'T fit the car at all, and yes I know that the front fenders and bumper would require change as well.  Put something like the Cobalt's lights on there to bring it in line with the rest of the family.

Yeah, I hope that RWD platform is something they'll be able to push through the budget constraints.

Re the Malibu, I have to clarify that I actually meant refresh or redesign on the new platform.

[thedriver]

I'm sorry but I don't buy a Saturn Aura on EPII anytime before 2011 if not later. Why would they waste the money on getting out a product for only 2 or 3 years? Perhaps there will be a Buick, Chevy, and Pontiac, followed by Saturn and Caddy later. . .

[prototype66]

If GM is going to refresh the current Malibu I say leave the rear end alone as it is not to rough on the eyes, put in a new dash, maybe a copy of the BLS's with the current console, and get some new headlights on the car as they just DON'T fit the car at all, and yes I know that the front fenders and bumper would require change as well. Put something like the Cobalt's lights on there to bring it in line with the rest of the family.

THATS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING.

SORRY BOUT THE LOUSY CHOP, ONLY HAD A MINUTE OR TWO

Edited May 3, 2006 by prototype66

[91z4me]

THATS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING.

What is really funny is that I read the first sentence and was thinking, MAN that is exactly what I wrote and then I saw the {/quote] and figured it out. Edited May 2, 2006 by 91z4me

[Croc]

I think the substancial re-fresh was pushed back because it was to close to the launch of EPII and didn't make financial sense.  I thought that is what the thread finally sorted out.

Refresh for 2008, NG in 2011

[Matt276]

But about the refresh for 2008MY, is it the gorgeous one that journalists were talking about? I'm so confused

[Croc]

But about the refresh for 2008MY, is it the gorgeous one that journalists were talking about? I'm so confused

No. This will likely be an interior refresh and a slight exterior refresh if anything. If the exterior is changed, it will likely be the rear since that wasn't changed with the initial refresh.

[Matt276]

No.  This will likely be an interior refresh and a slight exterior refresh if anything.  If the exterior is changed, it will likely be the rear since that wasn't changed with the initial refresh.

Doesn't sound good to me, GM will completely lose the car market. 2011 is too far away.

[Croc]

Doesn't sound good to me, GM will completely lose the car market. 2011 is too far away.

Oh shut up, you haven't seen anything. The Malibu just needs a better interior really. If it had a first-rate interior, it would be selling quite well.

[GMFAN83]

Toyota, Honda, and Nissan use ten year cyles for midsize platforms.The 2007 Toyota Camry is just a Major Revamp of the 2006 Camry. Just like how the 1997 & 1987 Camry were revamped compared to their 1986 & 1996 predecessors.

This is conjecture!

The Epsilon Malibu(The standard of Epsilon)

2003-All-New

2006-Mild Restyle

2008-Major Revamp

2011-Mild Restyle

2013-All-new on Epsilon 2

The Epsilon G6

2005-All-New

2009-Major Revamp

2012-Mild Restyle

2014-All-New on E2

The Epsilon Aura

2007-All-New

2010-Major Revamp

2015-All-New on E2

The Epsilon LaCrosse/Allure

2009-All-new on E1 Revamp with Pontiac G6

2012-Mild Restyle

2014-All-New on E2

The Epsilon Cadillac BTS

2010-All-new on E1 Revamp with Saturn Aura

2013-Mild Restyle

2015-All-New on E2

From 2013 on, GM will promote a midsize platform cycle of ten years. The lifespan of a midsize platform would be 12 years but, no product will be on it more than 10 years. Midsize cars will premiere in a particular order.

Chevrolet-Cheapest product sets basic standards

Pontiac/Buick-Improved for Midlevel standards

Saturn/Cadillac-Improved further for Luxury standards

This makes the most sense to me, I know its not based on actually GM Spreadsheets but, it does sound relatively inexpensive compared to lauching a new midsize platform every 5 years for each brand. The Camry is still essentially the same unnder newer steemetal. The only real diffrence is the new engines & transmissions. GM should copy or modify this idea. Dramatically restyle & Improve the Engines & Transmission for a major revamp of an existing platform.

By 2008, GM should give all its ecotecs VVT & give all its HF V-6s Dual VVT & Direct Injection. With the E1 revamps GM should give all Epsilons hybrid versions. When Epsilon 2 really does come out. The engines will likely not need hybrids since they will have Continously Variable Displacement. CVD combined with functional CVTs would improve E85 engines MPG figure by at least 50% over non-CVD engines. All without eco-damaging Lithium Batteries that are tooo costly even by 5-6 years from now. Hybrids are just a temp solution until more advanced technologies replace it.

This is just a guess but, when E3 comes out in 2023. I'd expect Camless Engines to be in them. assuming the market isn't revolutionized by hydrogen.

1900s-LHV engines premiered in mass production.

1940s-OHV engines premiered

1980s-OHC engines premiered

2020s-OHA engines premiered(Overhead Actuator)

Ok, I'm having a little too much fun now. I think I'll call it a day now.

Edited May 2, 2006 by GMFAN83

[Croc]

EPII is a heavily reworked EPI...just like the Camry was redone on reworked platforms for a while.

[Northstar]

The 2008MY (GMX386) Malibu is indeed the one that journalists were drooling over.

[Matt276]

The 2008MY (GMX386) Malibu is indeed the one that journalists were drooling over.

Oh thank you, good news, I don't care if it's still on EPI, I just want to see a complete new look.

[capriceman]

If compared to the current bu I think its alot better but not light years better.

[Matt276]

If compared to the current bu I think its alot better but not light years better.

Did you see it?

[evok]

Edited May 3, 2006 by evok

[evok]

Disclaimer to follow.

[Croc]

Based on what I have known/seen/a good bit of logical speculation...the Malibu refresh is just that--a 2008 EPI refresh. Interior design is improved slightly, but only slightly.

Imagine a cross between the EPI AURA & G6 interiors and the current Malibu interior. The center stack air vents won't look deranged, and the chintzy controls on the center stack will be upgraded to the current corporate units. Instrument cluster will be a 3-guage version of the G6 cluster. Steering wheel will be the corporate 3-point unit. In fact, for your sake I hope you like the corporate 3-point unit as you will see it used VERY frequently within GM. There may or may not be a storage compartment on top of the center stack a la Ford. Expect an AURA-like center console treatment.

Much of this is speculation, but I wouldn't get your hopes up...afterall this interior only lasts +/-3 years. Given GM's financial situation, they prolly won't spend lavishly on a +/-3 yr. interior.

EDIT:

aaaaaaaaaaand evok's beaten me to it

Edited May 3, 2006 by Croc

[Satty]

Dropping acid while designing an interior is a BAD idea.

[Croc]

I think the different colors represent different materials/color combos.

Edited May 3, 2006 by Croc

[Satty]

Duh

[Intrepidation]

Fisher Price colors anyone?

Those seat colors look sweet though

Edited May 3, 2006 by Dodgefan

[Satty]

Take away the gauges and that interior looks a lot like he one in my Solara.

[evok]

No it is just some CAD work that Vineet Maheshwari has contributed to the GMX-386 Malibu Interior in Prune, India.

I think he does good work. I wonder what GM thinks?

Edited May 3, 2006 by evok