Avalon shows dent in Toyota quality

[regfootball]

From Automotive News

Alan Seider has owned 11 Toyotas since 1982, but his 2006 Avalon likely will be his last. He says quality glitches have bedeviled his Toyota sedan, which he has driven less than 6,000 miles since he bought it last July. His dealer could not solve the car's problems.

Sorry, I don't have the subscription to view the rest of this, but i thought the headline was interesting!

[enzl]

From Automotive News

Sorry, I don't have the subscription to view the rest of this, but i thought the headline was interesting!

http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?...E/60501002/1041

Link...See, I might not be on Toyota's payroll afterall...

[bowtie_dude]

I've said and predicted this for a while.

Its easy to build 100 perfect rocking chairs.

But then you build 1,000...then 10,000...then 100,000.

Its a small, shrunken down version, but its the same principal. Quality is harder to control when you build 10 times the amount.

Though the fact that the customer jumped brands to Honda still shows little to no faith in GM products. Friend of mine, after having serious engine problems in this late 90s Honda Passport, jumped ship to a Toyota Highlander, without even considering a GM or Ford product.

[regfootball]

The Avalon's launch problems point to a larger issue. To meet demand, Toyota has added factories in North America and thousands of new employees. Executives are worried that Toyota's rapid growth may dilute its quality standards.

Toyota and Lexus divisions still exceed industry averages in various studies that measure quality. Toyota predicts that the Avalon will score well in J.D. Power and Associates' Initial Quality Study, to be released in June.

But the quality gap is closing. And Toyota recalls have spiked in the last two years.

Every production line produces its share of lemons. But Toyota already has issued a string of technical service bulletins to dealers to fix Avalons on the road. Changes are being made on the assembly line. Toyota representatives acknowledge there are some teething problems, but decline to call the Avalon a problem car.

[regfootball]

Clingenpeel says his dealer gave the car "a wink and a nod" when he brought it in three times for repairs. Clingenpeel then appealed to Toyota headquarters to send out a district service manager. Toyota refused. Now Clingenpeel is looking to sell the car.

"It's sad because there's a nice car hiding behind all this," Clingenpeel said. "But this is not up to snuff from what I would consider from Toyota."

The Avalon's problems have drawn notice from Consumer Reports magazine, which has for years given the Avalon high marks.

While still giving the 2005 Avalon its highest scores in most categories, the magazine's overall quality rating for the car was average because the Avalon scored below the Buick LaCrosse, Kia Amanti, Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego.

Anita Lam, data program manager for Consumer Reports' auto test center, said problems with the Avalon cropped up in steering, suspension and body integrity.

"These are first-year teething problems. We anticipate the second model year will be much better," Lam said.

Toyota spokesman John Hanson called the Consumer Reports ratings "the sum of small irritations more than anything else."

But Hanson acknowledged that Toyota has been concerned with the initial wave of quality problems for the car. Toyota's priority has been to find and remedy problems, get the fixes to the production line, and issue technical service bulletins so dealers can fix the faults on vehicles already on the road.

"The Avalon is the most complex vehicle Toyota Division sells, so just by definition it's a problematic vehicle," Hanson said.

[regfootball]

Said Seider: "I am so disappointed in Toyota. I've had previous first-year vehicles, but nothing like this ever happened. Toyota's build quality has declined in recent years, and there seems to be nothing the dealer can do. Toyota has reached a size that they've lost sight of the individual customer."

[regfootball]

LOL......you wanted this, Toyota.....now it's time to take it like a man.......

[avant1963]

Anita Lam, data program manager for Consumer Reports' auto test center, said problems with the Avalon cropped up in steering, suspension and body integrity.

"These are first-year teething problems. We anticipate the second model year will be much better," Lam said.

I'd love to see CR make up an excuse for "teething" problems on an American car.

[CARBIZ]

Interesting how CR automatically puts their usual spin on it:"These are first-year teething problems. We anticipate the second model year will be much better."

YEAH, RIGHT.

Even though the LaCross beat it in quality ratings, even though Buick has beaten Toyota every year for a very long time in JD Powers ratings, CR just couldn't resist getting their dig in.

I guess they just couldn't hide these figures because they were too bad to gloss over, so they had to spin it instead.

Anyway, cracks were bound to show up. Now all we need to wait for is the media paying proper attention to it.

[nyscene911]

I'd love to see CR make up an excuse for "teething" problems on an American car.

I thought the exact same thing.

[Petra]

...And, thus, the C&Gers rejoiced.

This quote stuck me as a weak excuse, though:

"The Avalon is the most complex vehicle Toyota Division sells, so just by definition it's a problematic vehicle," Hanson said.

For one thing, it doesn't seem terribly wise to admit that the Avalon is, by definition, a problematic vehicle. For another thing, the Avalon is not the most complex vehicle in the Toyota lineup. You want the Prius, Johnny.

[Intrepidation]

The Avalon's problems have drawn notice from Consumer Reports magazine, which has for years given the Avalon high marks.

While still giving the 2005 Avalon its highest scores in most categories, the magazine's overall quality rating for the car was average because the Avalon scored below the Buick LaCrosse, Kia Amanti, Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego.

The KIA AMANTI scored higher!!! Oh that's priceless :rotflmao:

[regfootball]

KIA AMANTI? flybrian's favorite car?

that is indeed priceless!

[Drew Dowdell]

...And, thus, the C&Gers rejoiced.

This quote stuck me as a weak excuse, though:

For one thing, it doesn't seem terribly wise to admit that the Avalon is, by definition, a problematic vehicle. For another thing, the Avalon is not the most complex vehicle in the Toyota lineup. You want the Prius, Johnny.

I would think that the new Camry.. with the same engine but 6-speeds <most of the time> is more complex then the Avalon as well....

[grandmarquis]

do i hear angels singing???

[VenSeattle]

[Ravenfreak13]

And everyone put down my article....*adds another thing to the toyota issue list*

[DetroitNut90]

Hahaha...

My neighbor bought one of these things after telling me how bad the Lucerne was.

If the Avalon turns out to be Toyota's true problem car, I wonder how CR will put it

[Ravenfreak13]

You know what they will do...."The Avalon:Toyota's Black Stallion. Although this is toyotas problem car...It sure does it well!"

[caddycruiser]

I would think that the new Camry.. with the same engine but 6-speeds <most of the time> is more complex then the Avalon as well....

Yeah, and there have already been some "teething" issues with that one. Lots of good ones and thrilled owners, but not all perfect like you'd be tempted to believe.

[Flybrian]

Anita Lam, data program manager for Consumer Reports' auto test center, said problems with the Avalon cropped up in steering, suspension and body integrity.

"These are first-year teething problems. We anticipate the second model year will be much better," Lam said.

Toyota spokesman John Hanson called the Consumer Reports ratings "the sum of small irritations more than anything else."

Too bad you cast aspersions on domestic models that bear only the same nameplate as its predecessors. Also, 'small irritations'? A misaligned trim panel is a 'small irritation.' Problems with the frame of the car is full-blown herpes.

"The Avalon is the most complex vehicle Toyota Division sells, so just by definition it's a problematic vehicle," Hanson said.

So, by definition, the new LS is a total piece of &#036;h&#33;. Nice one, MmmmBop Hanson.

[regfootball]

with the way CR is backing up toyo here, you just KNOW Toyota is shoveling big amounts of cash into CR's pockets......

[04monteintimidator]

i knew this would happen sooner or later... because once a company gets big enough... its impossible to hold the quality standards they had when they were small... similar to the rocking chair reference made earlier...

however... you know what CR is really going to do... is say this "domestic cars are starting to equal the quality of imports simply because the quality of the imports have gone down... not because the domestics quality has improved"

[ZL-1]

If Toyota starts looking down on consumers or downplaying issues, then they'll be in trouble. But I think they won't repeat any of GM/Ford/Chrysler mistakes.

Edited May 4, 2006 by ZL-1

[grandmarquis]

If Toyota starts looking down on consumers or downplaying issues, then they'll be in trouble.  But I think they won't repeat any of GM/Ford/Chrysler mistakes.

don't count on it. judging from what i have read about owner's experiences with the dealers and with toyota i hink the damage is well on its way to being done. i detect more than a bit of arrogance at toyota.

[ToniCipriani]

Didn't know that CR's auto reviews is run by a Chinese. More proof that (most) Chinese people are just blind about Toyota.

I'm embarrased and hopeless.

[ponchoman49]

Funny the article mentions "dents" as I have seen several 05-06 Avalons complete with blue haired old driver with several door dents right where the bodyside molding used to be. Toyotas cheapness and many other manufacturers for not including this, especially on cars costing 35-37K, is totally rediculous. It magnifies the bloated blandness of this car and makes it look rather comical. I have already chatted with several older gentleman that have had transmission and power steering leaks and another who thought the seats were too hard. This is a very controversial car indeed!

[Intrepidation]

That reminds me: I saw a previous gen Avalon broken down on t he side of the road ealier this week.

[enzl]

Didn't know that CR's auto reviews is run by a Chinese. More proof that (most) Chinese people are just blind about Toyota.

I'm embarrased and hopeless.

That could qualify for the most idiotic statement I've seen on this board yet. (And that's saying something.)

Can you keep your ignorance to yourself, please!

[pow]

That could qualify for the most idiotic statement I've seen on this board yet. (And that's saying something.)

Can you keep your ignorance to yourself, please!

Agreed... that's some serious self-loathing there.

[Croc]

For real...there's nothing wrong with being Chinese, dim sum is some of the best &#036;h&#33; out there, and you know what? I'm quite partial to egg rolls.

[Drew Dowdell]

Yeah, and there have already been some "teething" issues with that one.  Lots of good ones and thrilled owners, but not all perfect like you'd be tempted to believe.

I'm never tempted, with any car, from any brand to think the car is perfect in it's first year or it's tenth year.

I waited till the '04 CTS for a reason.

[Drew Dowdell]

don't count on it. judging from what i have read about owner's experiences with the dealers and with toyota i hink the damage is well on its way to being done.  i detect more than a bit of arrogance at toyota.

Toyota actually had a chance to win me over a few years ago before I bought the CTS. I had the Cutlass Convertible and was looking to replace it after 160,000 miles. I really dislike the florida rental fleet Sebring, so I went to look at the solara. It seemed to be an ok car, nothing that got my heart racing, but I probably would have been content with it <especially on days like today>. What put me off was the dealership.

To you sales persons out there:

Tip #1 don't diss the customer's current ride.

Tip #2 don't brag about the power of the car when the customer's current ride is 10 years older and has more power.

Tip #3 don't say "Come back and see me when you're ready to trade that thing in"* , while the customer is walking out.... save your breath or they'll only loath you more.

*my bolding for emphasis on what he said.

[Drew Dowdell]

For real...there's nothing wrong with being Chinese, dim sum is some of the best &#036;h&#33; out there, and you know what?  I'm quite partial to egg rolls.

I like Chinese.

I like Chinese.

They only come up to your knees,

Yet they're always friendly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese.

I like Chinese.

There's nine hundred million of them in the world today.

You'd better learn to like them; that's what I say.

I like Chinese.

I like Chinese.

They come from a long way overseas,

But they're cute and they're cuddly, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese food.

The waiters never are rude.

Think of the many things they've done to impress.

There's Maoism, Taoism, I Ching, and Chess.

So I like Chinese.

I like Chinese.

I like their tiny little trees,

Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese thought,

The wisdom that Confucious taught.

If Darwin is anything to shout about,

The Chinese will survive us all without any doubt.

So, I like Chinese.

I like Chinese.

They only come up to your knees,

Yet they're wise and they're witty, and they're ready to please.

I like Chinese.

I like Chinese.

Their food is guaranteed to please,

A fourteen, a seven, a nine, and lychees.

I like Chinese.

I like Chinese.

I like their tiny little trees,

Their Zen, their ping-pong, their yin, and yang-ese.

I like Chinese.

I like Chinese.

They only come up to your knees...

[Flybrian]

That could qualify for the most idiotic statement I've seen on this board yet. (And that's saying something.)

Can you keep your ignorance to yourself, please!

There's an amount of backlash to Japanese products (including cars) in China that has some very legitimate basis. I think that's the message he was getting across.

[enzl]

There's an amount of backlash to Japanese products (including cars) in China that has some very legitimate basis. I think that's the message he was getting across.

Um. No. He was saying that Ms. Lam & the Chinese were blind to Toyota's flaws, via context and content of his statement.

Fly-Why are you always defending the most moronic statements? Let the man/woman defend his/her self....or better yet, come to my defense every once and a while....

[Mr.Krinkle]

here here...even historically the chinese and japanese havent been the best of friends. what im reading here makes no sense whatsoever,

as far as food goes...chinese all the way.

japanese food is too light and trendy for me. i still dont get this whole sushi craze.

dim sum, dumplins, wonton soup...mmmm. thats where its at for me, no rolled up fish in seaweed for me.

maybe we can all agree on scallion pancakes. thats the sh*t

[Intrepidation]

here here...even historically the chinese and japanese havent been the best of friends.  what im reading here makes no sense whatsoever,

as far as food goes...chinese all the way.

japanese food is too light and trendy for me.  i still dont get this whole sushi craze.

dim sum, dumplins, wonton soup...mmmm.  thats where its at for me, no rolled up fish in seaweed for me.

maybe we can all agree on scallion pancakes.  thats the sh*t

don't forget cats

[Mr.Krinkle]

reminds me of a joke...

how do you know you were robbed by a korean?

your cat is missing and all your math homework is done.

thats just a cultural thing i suppose, the way we eat cow, indians would never in a million years. it is a sacred animial to them.

just the way it goes i guess...of course i dont have a pet cow.

its a big world out there and without this turning into some kind of ethics lesson it all comes down to respect for other peoples cultures. i dont even want to know what the rest of the world think of the US right now.

[Mr.Krinkle]

i digress though, to get back on topic...

toyota is human. let them pump out as many cars as gm does and see if they dont have similar problems...oh wait, thats basically whats going on here now.

so, hmmm. maybe they are human after all. time to stop playing favorites perhaps. reliability shemiability.

[76ChevyTrucker]

Well now, the Avalon is at-heart a problematic car. That'll sure win you some more buyers. I've actually heard a lot of similar problems from people with Avalons. Being the parts business like I am, I've already had requests for power steering lines and catalytic converters from people who have had failures. Then again, like everyone has said, you pump out that many cars with a huge influx of workers, quality is going to go down. I'm not jumping on the Toyota bandwagon, I hate them with a passion, but I can definitely see the problem. I just hope that they do too.

[FAPTurbo]

toyota is human. let them pump out as many cars as gm does and see if they dont have similar problems...oh wait, thats basically whats going on here now.

so, hmmm. maybe they are human after all. time to stop playing favorites perhaps. reliability shemiability.

Toyota? Human? Nah. One guy I know seems to believe that Toyota is in fact not run by humans, but by an evil race of robots. As soon as every American and Canadian driveway has one Toyota in it, they will all transform and destroy North America...

Say Hello To Toyota's Real Overlord - I mean CEO.

Then again, Maybe GM planned for this and all our GM Sierra's and Chevy Silverados are really Optimus Primes and Ultra Magnus'...

Edited May 7, 2006 by Captainbooyah

[Newbiewar]

keep up the good work, i'm starting a file of all of these problems so when my dad replaces his camry i'll have evidence to show him he should replace it with a toyota...

i remember in 98 he was almost upset enough to never purchase another because the tires only lasted 6k miles...

[Newbiewar]

"I pulled up next to a Ford F-350, and I could hear my valve train clicking louder than his diesel," said Clingenpeel, whose Avalon is his family's third Toyota.

Toyota: moving forward

LOS ANGELES - Just two months into the launch of its redesigned 2007 Camry, Toyota has a problem on its hands.

A fastener in the automatic transmission can loosen, and as a result drivers can lose the use of second and sixth gear.

The vehicle still can limp to a dealership, however. The problem applies only to the models with a V-6 and a six-speed transmission.

About 90 owners have reported the problem out of 5,800 vehicles so equipped, says Toyota spokesman Mike Michels.

Toyota is treating the problem with a technical-service bulletin sent to dealers, not a recall. As a result, owners must wait for the transmission to fail before it can be repaired under warranty.

The incorrectly seated fastener, also called a snap ring, may realign itself during normal driving, Michels said.

Toyota has changed the production process to improve seating of the fastener. The same transmission is used in the redesigned Lexus ES 350, but a later production start date meant the problem was caught before production began.

Toyota recall... An Amercan Revolution,

Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet

Edited May 6, 2006 by Newbiewar

[Flybrian]

"May realign itself"?

Wow.

[VenSeattle]

Toyota? Human? Nah. One guy I know seems to believe that Toyota is in fact not run by humans, but by an evil race of robots. As soon as every American and Canadian driveway has one Toyota in it, they will all transform and destroy North America...

Say Hello To Toyota's Real Overlord - I mean CEO.

Then again, Maybe GM planned for this and all our GM Sierra's and Chevy Silverados are really Optimus Primes and Ultra Magnus'...

There's just something about any type of Transformer reference that I have to show respect to.

[Intrepidation]

There's just something about any type of Transformer reference that I have to show respect to.

Transformers rock

Unlike Toyota, which is stuck in 1st gear

[ToniCipriani]

That could qualify for the most idiotic statement I've seen on this board yet. (And that's saying something.)

Can you keep your ignorance to yourself, please!

Agreed... that's some serious self-loathing there.

I am just trying to convey what I am seeing with my own eyes. And I do not hate being Chinese.

If you don't like it, you are more than welcome to use the ignore member function as intro'ed by the admin members here.

Edited May 7, 2006 by ToniCipriani

[Focusst]

The KIA AMANTI scored higher!!! Oh that's priceless  :rotflmao:

After having driven a rental Ford 500 for 2 weeks I'd take the 500 over the Avalone anytime!

[AmericanMuscle]

i knew this would happen sooner or later... because once a company gets big enough... its impossible to hold the quality standards they had when they were small... similar to the rocking chair reference made earlier...

however... you know what CR is really going to do... is say this "domestic cars are starting to equal the quality of imports simply because the quality of the imports have gone down... not because the domestics quality has improved"

They might say that, or they could say "the reason the quality in toyota vehicles has fallen is because many are now made in the United States, so the lazy american workers have almost lowered the quality of toyota vehicles to the same level as GM and Ford"

They could come up with a million excuses and it's really sad.