300 vs Lucerne vs Montego

[sciguy_0504]

I just received the most recent edition of Motor Trend and they tested the big 3 large V6 American sedans (no Avalon or Azera).

1: Chrysler 300

2: Buick Lucerne

3: Mercury Montego

I figured they would rate the Montego higher based on what the article said. Apparently, the Montego had the nicest interior of the bunch and handled well, too. It even beat the Lucerne to 60MPH and it had AWD.

The 300 ended up being the most well rounded of the bunch.

[GMFAN83]

Its about time they compared American Cars for once. Detiot gets no PR from autorags unless they trash them.

Anybody think the Montego should get a V-8? I think with AWD a 4.6L 300hp V-8 would work well until the next-gen Montego arrives three years.

The Lucerne needs to get a 3.6L 270hp V-6 when the Merc gets a 3.5L 267hp V-6

[VenSeattle]

I'll have to read it... It's about time something like this was done. I swear it appeared to me that all comparisons forgot the Montego existed.

[Bimmer325]

I swear it appeared to me that all comparisons forgot the Montego existed.

I did.

[Intrepidation]

I did.

lol

--

FYI they did do a test, I think it was Car and Driver, with the 300C, Pontiac Bonneville GXP and the Crown Vic, when the 300 first came out. Granted this is a better comparison.

Edited April 28, 2006 by Dodgefan

[balthazar]

Anyone think these no-reason-for-it segregated tests only promote the subconscious opinion that domestic product "can't compete" with foreign models?

I do.

[Intrepidation]

Anyone think these no-reason-for-it segregated tests only promote the subconscious opinion that domestic product "can't compete" with foreign models?

I do.

Yeah except that the 300 is domestic. Of course you'll shoot back with "well it's got an E-Class platform" to which I will retalliate: "The LX platformis simply based on the E-Class, it's not a carbon copy, Besides, look how many Ford products use Mazda and Volvo architectures...like the Montego. The Lucerne is all American sure, but it's on an OLD all American platform. ANd GM uses plenty of imported parts for their American cars. So

Edited April 28, 2006 by Dodgefan

[ocnblu]

Dodgefan, I think balthy was referring to the fact it was 3 domestics... no imports, in the comparison. Like it's necessary to separate them to be fair to the domestics.

I really think the comparison was for the domestic-intending customer. There are still people out there who wouldn't consider an imported car. I think that was the intended purpose of this article.

[Intrepidation]

Dodgefan, I think balthy was referring to the fact it was 3 domestics... no imports, in the comparison.  Like it's necessary to separate them to be fair to the domestics.

I really think the comparison was for the domestic-intending customer.  There are still people out there who wouldn't consider an imported car.  I think that was the intended purpose of this article.

Oh ok, my bad balthazar. Well anyway, the 300's been tested against Imports before and usually comes out at or near the top.

Edited April 28, 2006 by Dodgefan

[Chicagoland]

This was a feature test to showcase the Big 3. Just like a "Pony Car test" won't have a Nissan Z.

[Flybrian]

lol

--

FYI they did do a test, I think it was Car and Driver, with the 300C, Pontiac Bonneville GXP and the Crown Vic, when the 300 first came out. Granted this is a better comparison.

Oh yeah. The Crown Vic LX Sport. What a joke that car is.

[Intrepidation]

Oh yeah. The Crown Vic LX Sport. What a joke that car is.

what a joke the Crwon vic still is. Wonder if anyone outside of fleets, taxis and police buy them anymore?

[ehaase]

what a joke the Crwon vic still is. Wonder if anyone outside of fleets, taxis and police buy them anymore?

Yes.

[jry]

well, the lucerne is heavier than the merc. so the 3.5 v 6 would probably perform better in montegos AWD configuration. i just wish they'd fix the exterior! ugly. you couldn't put the azera in this anyway because it is not a big car, it's just the biggest korean car available here in the states.

here is a couple of Q's. what would the lucerne do in sales and performance if it was E85 and how is DCX going to top the 300 when its time for a re-skin?

[ponchoman49]

What model 300 did they test? How slow to 60 was the Lucerne dare I ask?

[Intrepidation]

well, the lucerne is heavier than the merc. so the 3.5 v 6 would probably perform better in montegos AWD configuration. i just wish they'd fix the exterior! ugly. you couldn't put the azera in this anyway because it is not a big car, it's just the biggest korean car available here in the states.

here is a couple of Q's. what would the lucerne do in sales and performance if it was E85 and how is DCX going to top the 300 when its time for a re-skin?

it's not a merc, the platform may be based one the e-class, but it was thoroughly modified by Chrysler. I'm sure they're come up with a good redesigned, unlike most of ford and gm (i said most not all), they have talent on their side

What model 300 did they test? How slow to 60 was the Lucerne dare I ask?

I'm gonna guess the Touring was tested.

[Jazzhead]

The Crown Vic LX Sport is no joke. I was in Manhattan today, and took a cab (with my wife and kids) from 53rd and Seventh down to Little Italy. I sat in the front - it was obviously a new Vic, with leather interior. The cabbie, once he got past Times Square, simply floored it - wove in and out and around down to Canal at a breakneck pace, just slamming that Vicky in and out at speed. Great phuckin' ride! (I was laughing, but the crew in the back seat were scared $h!e -less. They insisted we take the subway back uptown).

Damn right I'd buy a Crown Vic LX Sport. Black -there ain't no other way. It's not for everybody, but it's the throwback with blowback!

[ponchoman49]

Gosh the Lucerne could only manage 8.8 seconds to 60. I was hoping for at least Buick's 8.4 second quote. The crew in charge of equipping the Lucerne with this powertrain should be tied to a tree and bitch slapped for hours. Granted the base 3800 engine is fine for the elderly motorists on base CX models who don't care about performance. But for those like me that don't want the expensive pricey models with there poor gas mileage Northstar V8's, the 3.6 should have been mandatory on the heavier CXL V6. And why can't Buick put a suspension that will handle in the lower trim levels? The only Lucerne that should have a soft suspension and bench seats is the base CX. And for all the people that keep defending the old 4 speed automatic, it was interesting to see that the smaller, lower torque 3.0 V6 in the 500 outgunned the bigger torquier 3800 after 50 mph which is where the Buick shifts out of 1st gear into 2nd and loses a ton of steam. The 6 speed automatic would have made this detuned 3800 somewhat competitive and able to keep up with the little 3.0 liter Duratec. Looks like Buick will repeat this mistake even next year for the 07's.

[pow]

Still, I'd go for the V6 over the V8 (gasp!) because if I wanted some performance, I wouldn't have chosen a Lucerne in the first place. And bear in mind that the Lucerne V8 isn't exactly a hot rod, the fact that three portholes fit better than four, and the price of gas these days.

8.8 seconds isn't that bad, though I'd rather have them ditch both engines entirely, and offer a HF V6 (and six-speed auto) with the power of a Northstar, better fuel economy, and a lower price (compared to the V8).

[Croc]

The Montego is a really nice sedan. It just needs more power and a sharper exterior (2007 baby!)

[jry]

What model 300 did they test? How slow to 60 was the Lucerne dare I ask?

the montego isn't a merc. since when?

[jry]

Gosh the Lucerne could only manage 8.8 seconds to 60.

i am curious where the 8.8 second figure comes from.

its a heavy car but the numbert i saw was under 8.

[The O.C.]

i am curious where the 8.8 second figure comes from.

its a heavy car but the numbert i saw was under 8.

The V8 Lucerne tested by MT for COTY was 7.5secs........

Actually I'm surprised the 195hp 3800 did it in "only" 8.8secs.....I was guessing it was going to be a 9.5sec car.

[Intrepidation]

the montego isn't a merc. since when?

My bad! I thought you were abbrivating mercedes Sorry

[VenSeattle]

The V8 Lucerne tested by MT for COTY was 7.5secs........

Actually I'm surprised the 195hp 3800 did it in "only" 8.8secs.....I was guessing it was going to be a 9.5sec car.

Speeds vary from test to test... but 8.8sec is similar to the LeSabre & base Park Avenue's 0-60 time with the 205hp Series II 3800. I didn't expect it to be any different in the Lucerne. They all three weigh about the same.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I just received the most recent edition of Motor Trend and they tested the big 3 large V6 American sedans (no Avalon or Azera).

1: Chrysler 300

2: Buick Lucerne

3: Mercury Montego

I figured they would rate the Montego higher based on what the article said.  Apparently, the Montego had the nicest interior of the bunch and handled well, too.  It even beat the Lucerne to 60MPH and it had AWD.

The 300 ended up being the most well rounded of the bunch.

OF COURSE there was no avalon or azera.... They're FENCING OFF BUYERS. We all know that those cars are better anyway, right???? They're just throwing a "dieing market" a bone.

"The average large import car buyer and domestic car buyer are a different lot" Yeah, and we know who gets the NUMBER and CONQUESTS funneled to them too... Aparently domestics don't have the ability to conquest, yet imports do.

They view the domestics as a rotting animal that can just be picked over by all of the "FUTURE STARS"

So, I'm assuming the 300 won DESPITE the Montego being the overall better car?!?! Typical SUBJECTIVE bull$h!. GOD FORBID they give props to Merc, because they're hoping that the division dies in a few years (That's the goal---the more american divisions they can collapse, the better. Which means: Pontiac and Mercury are being gunned for big time, then it'll be Lincoln and Buicks turn)

As for the Lucerne... I'm sure they take about a million cheap shots about the age of it's drivers, eventhough most old farts (READ: people like analysts and journalists) drive Toyotas and Lexi now.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Anyone think these no-reason-for-it segregated tests only promote the subconscious opinion that domestic product "can't compete" with foreign models?

I do.

BINGO!!!

They (The journalists) are just fencing off buyers for the import brands...

The new domestics are o competitive that they might have the chance to conquest, so instead of just blatantly trashing them, which now seems to be coming under more and more scrutiny, they just take the attitude of "outta sight, outta mind" therefore, if an import minded consumer NEVER sees a domestic tested against his car, then he'll never give a domestic a chance, much less SERIOUSLY CONSIDER one... Case closed/mission accomplished!

It's a "plateau" state of thinking... Now that ACTUAL domestic performance is equal or BETTER, the big PR push in the press is to instill in the buyer a sense that imports are AUTOMATICALLY the 'grade A' vehicles of choice WITHOUT ny comparison... It's not a FACT based idea, it's more of a FRAME OF MIND; like, "Oh, imports like Toyota and Hyundai are probably the best, then there is the domestic platform, which isn't premium and isn't aspirational (Where the euros have so carefully been placed)

[Intrepidation]

OF COURSE there was no avalon or azera.... They're FENCING OFF BUYERS. We all know that those cars are better anyway, right???? They're just throwing a "dieing market" a bone.

"The average large import car buyer and domestic car buyer are a different lot" Yeah, and we know who gets the NUMBER and CONQUESTS funneled to them too... Aparently domestics don't have the ability to conquest, yet imports do.

They view the domestics as a rotting animal that can just be picked over by all of the "FUTURE STARS"

So, I'm assuming the 300 won DESPITE the Montego being the overall better car?!?! Typical SUBJECTIVE bull$h!. GOD FORBID they give props to Merc, because they're hoping that the division dies in a few years (That's the goal---the more american divisions they can collapse, the better. Which means: Pontiac and Mercury are being gunned for big time, then it'll be Lincoln and Buicks turn)

As for the Lucerne... I'm sure they take about a million cheap shots about the age of it's drivers, eventhough most old farts (READ: people like analysts and journalists) drive Toyotas and Lexi now.

BINGO!!!

They (The journalists) are just fencing off buyers for the import brands...

The new domestics are o competitive that they might have the chance to conquest, so instead of just blatantly trashing them, which now seems to be coming under more and more scrutiny, they just take the attitude of "outta sight, outta mind" therefore, if an import minded consumer NEVER sees a domestic tested against his car, then he'll never give a domestic a chance, much less SERIOUSLY CONSIDER one... Case closed/mission accomplished!

It's a "plateau" state of thinking... Now that ACTUAL domestic performance is equal or BETTER, the big PR push in the press is to instill in the buyer a sense that imports are AUTOMATICALLY the 'grade A' vehicles of choice WITHOUT ny comparison... It's not a FACT based idea, it's more of a FRAME OF MIND; like, "Oh, imports like Toyota and Hyundai are probably the best, then there is the domestic platform, which isn't premium and isn't aspirational (Where the euros have so carefully been placed)

*sigh* No, this was simply an American VS American VS American test. There's nothing wrong with it. Two of the three cars have been in other comparisons featuring imports. (The 300 always does well, the LaCrosse varies). This is like teh AMerican Muscle comparisons. No one bitches when they don't include imports in a Charger VS GTO shootout.

[The O.C.]

*sigh* No, this was simply an American VS American VS American test. There's nothing wrong with it. Two of the three cars have been in other comparisons featuring imports. (The 300 always does well, the LaCrosse varies). This is like teh AMerican Muscle comparisons. No one bitches when they don't include imports in a Charger VS GTO shootout.

Ahhhh....but Dodgefan, we MUST spin the article any way we can to make it look like "The Media's Fault."

[Intrepidation]

Ahhhh....but Dodgefan, we MUST spin the article any way we can to make it look like "The Media's Fault."

[ponchoman49]

The V8 Lucerne tested by MT for COTY was 7.5secs........

Actually I'm surprised the 195hp 3800 did it in "only" 8.8secs.....I was guessing it was going to be a 9.5sec car.

That must have been a very new and green Northstar to have been that slow. Other tests have the Lucerne CXS Northstar at 6.9 seconds to 60. I drove a CXL V8 car that a bud rented from Hertz and it did a consistent 6.8 seconds in the run probably because of it's 1" smaller diameter tires and slightly less weight compared to the CXS.

[ponchoman49]

i am curious where the 8.8 second figure comes from.

its a heavy car but the numbert i saw was under 8.

8.8 seconds is what Motor Trend supposedly got with there Lucerne CXL 3800 in the 3 way sedan comparo on newstands this month. Buick says that a base CX will do 8.4 seconds but I have yet to confirm this.

[ponchoman49]

Speeds vary from test to test... but 8.8sec is similar to the LeSabre & base Park Avenue's 0-60 time with the 205hp Series II 3800. I didn't expect it to be any different in the Lucerne. They all three weigh about the same.

True but the Lucerne is heavier than the former LeSabre and even the base Park Ave of 1997-2005 vintage. LeSabres, mine 2000 included, came in at around 3500 lbs with the Park a little over 3600 lbs. The Lucerne starts at over 3700 lbs on the base CX and goes all the way to a hair under 4000 lbs on a loaded CXL 3800. Most LeSabres with the base 2.86:1 axle and the Park Aves with there 3.05:1 gear got to 60 in 8.0-8.2 seconds in my hands and the auto mags even got in the mid to high sevens on LeSabres with touring suspension and upgraded 3.05:1 gears. The Lucerne is heavier and has to limp along with the 2.86:1 axle and less power and torque than the 3800 series II which makes no sence at all to this day why they did that. In my book the 3800 197 hp engine should only be in base CX models with 3.05:1 gears as a minimum and the CXL V6 model badly needs the 3.6 engine from the LaCrosse with a few more ponies thrown in for good measure.

[CARBIZ]

I read a book a long time ago - I wish I could remember the title or the author, but the premise was the far future in which everything had been written and all art had been drawn/sculpted, etc. Instead of creating anything new, the chattering classes (because, of course, robots did all the work) sat, locked up in their rooms, and critiqued the critiques. That is, they discussed and rated other people's analyses of art work and literature, sometimes several times removed - even to the point where most of the "critics" hadn't even seen the original art/writing at all.

I was a kid when I read this book, and at the time it hit me as humorous, but as I move around in the world I start to see how profound.

Politicians, business executives, critics of any kind - eventually they remove themselves from reality and become so self-important and puffed up on their own prose that they forget how they got to where they are.

I fight becoming overly-jaded and burnt out every day. My livelihood depends on my being upbeat and relaxed. I can't afford to rant and rave because I had a bad experience with my 1984 Citation and I am never going to forgive GM - for example. I don't have a pulpit in which to grind my axe and shame the Big 2 for what they aren't building for me now.

More and more, I find critics of any kind, whether it is in the real estate section of the newspaper, or the political commentary, to be puffed up and more interested in trying to be clever or funny amongst their peers than to actually be doing anything constructive.

They just lose touch. I can't say I blame them. I guess I'd rather drive a BMW than a Yaris, but that isn't reality....

Anyway, that may be a little off topic, but I just wanted to build on FOG's comments. There is no conspiracy, just a general laziness amongst the general "official" media to say or do anything different.

And even though this may raise the ire of those who know so much more than me, I am saying this as the observations of a layperson who has not sat in thousands of cars over the past 25 years.

But I was a carjockey in a luxury hotel for a year. And I did work in two luxury condos and got to drive everything. And now I work at a GM dealership.

And I just love cars, but not the Corvettes and Infinitis out there, but rather the Fusions and the Maximas and the Muranos - the every day/everyman's vehicles.