VW Jetta TDI

[regfootball]

36 mpg combined. that's not too far off the Prius now, is it?

[regfootball]

'i think i could handle that'.

[RJB]

There was a head to head competition some time ago when the Prius came out. I can't recall which publication or where, but anyway the TDi was new(not broken in) and the Prius well, was a Prius. They did highway to highway comparisons mpg wise and city to city mpg. The Volkwagen was at the most maybe 3-4 mpg off. Give me a TDi anyday over a Prius. I almost bought one the last time I was looking for a new vehicle. I ended up with a truck...imagine that!

[avant1963]

It loses me on the 11 second 0-60 times.

[ZL-1]

Not very far, and maybe in real driving it will be more economical.

I've seen a few Jettas when driving around (we got the name back in Europe - no more Vento / Bora), and I have to say it looks much better than the bigger Passat.

EDIT: does anyone know if and when it will get the 170hp diesel 2.0L?

Edited April 30, 2006 by ZL-1

[PeterJ]

If they were driving the five speed manual, you'd almost have to drive it like a complete idiot (which I have no doubt C&D editors are capable of) to get only 36 mpg combined. I think they now offer either a six-speed tiptronic or DSG as the automatic option now which keeps the numbers even closer to a manual. I know at least a dozen TDI owners and lurk around a lot at TDIclub.com...I don't know a single person who has done that poorly in combined real-world mileage. 36MPG is more like the efficiency floor with this engine.

W/ a diesel (manual at least) you short shift and let the immediate and prodigious torque do its thing. You do not wind them out like a V-tech. For what they lack in 0-60 acceleration they MORE than make-up in mid-range pick-up, overall flexibility and a V8 like demeanor at interstate speeds. 0-60 as a key measure is highly overrated if you look at how you use your vehicle in about 98% of real-world situations.

On top of all this, the 1.9PD TDI is about as close to the pinnacle of modern diesel technology an early 90's Vulcan V6 from Ford is to the pinnacle of modern V6's today.

[regfootball]

the unit they tested had DSG. I am not sure if VW is offering a stick for 06 witht he TDI. They said the TDI may be delayed or go away in 07 because of the new regs.

in any case, the very next page, the new Camry Hybrid got 33 mpg.

it is bigger. but not the 37 mpg they advertised in the same mag like 2 months ago.

I bet the new 06 TDI might get slightly less because its heavier and bigger than the last Jetta.

if VW does bring the new TDI for use with the cleaner diesel for 07, then we'll see if it can keep its great mpg and improve accel a bit.

Even witht he slower 0-60 I bet in real world use it feels good because of the big torque.

[ocnblu]

Two words: "Rabbit Diesel".

[regfootball]

x2

[pow]

Two words:  "Rabbit Diesel".

Don't hold your breath...

[PeterJ]

x3!

VW will be back in the diesel game eventually after a little hiatus. We'll probably see a common-rail diesel Rabbit in the 2008 or 2009 model year. By that time, I'm pretty sure VW will have some company in the compact diesel market from D/C (with the Caliber) if not a couple others.

There is some scuttlebutt about the EPA regulations being relaxed to the extent they may be able to offer the existing PD TDI a little longer than expected but I'm not counting on it.

I'm currently looking into finding one of the last '06 Golf TDIs but so far it looks like the only ones left are automatic and the dealer I've talked to (Schmeltz in the Twin Cities) is quoting me at $22K. Well, they can kiss my rosy red a$$ with that attitude. Fortunately I have an outstate dealer that I've purchased from (and sent four other people to) so we'll see what we can do....$19K is my ceiling for an old model with the wrong kind of transmission.

[regfootball]

peter, there is a VW dealer in St. Peter i think. check there?

[PeterJ]

peter, there is a VW dealer in St. Peter i think.  check there?

Just a little further down 169 actually...Clements. They also carry Chevrolet and Nissan as well. I work with their internet/fleet managers (Ralph and Jan) who are superb and very down-to-earth. I've sent several family members and friends there. Most recently my 'bro bought a loaded, manual Jetta TDI which he used to replace a pick-up for a 100/mile round trip commute. Not a week goes by where he doesn't tell me how much he loves that car...he saves something like $170-190/month in fuel costs and has a lifetime average of 49MPG. It's his main ride so he was perfectly fine with spending ~$25.5K for something that has luxury amenities with the fuel efficiency of a motorcycle. If you drive it that distance, the fuel savings essentially subsidize the car payment . Running up the miles (especially 90% interstate) is really inconsequential for a diesel engine.

Most of the VW sales people I've come in contact with in the Twin Cities embody what everyone loves-to-hate about VW in general...the whole "yuppier-than-thou-and-you'll-pay-a-premium-for-it" attitude.

Actually I spoke out of turn about the Schmelz price...22K is about right for a completely loaded TDI with tiptronic. I forget that transmission is about a $1300 option. But the guy I spoke with yesterday (Schmelz was his last name actually) still had the 'tude thoughout our whole conversation that really turned me off.

Still not going to pay retail for a seven year old platform with a soft-serve suspension and the wrong transmission. I love diesels regardless and the prospect of energy independence even more...but to overpay for these things is the equivalent of trading multiple day-one picts to draft a QB that probably would have been there in round 5, if you get my meaning.

[Flybrian]

When VW trains their Diesels to not soil themselves, I'll consider one...

[pow]

When VW trains their Diesels to not soil themselves, I'll consider one...

Yeah, low-sulfur diesel and particulate filters can't come any sooner.

I believe the '07 (or '08?) E320 CDI will be 50-state emissions legal.

Edited May 3, 2006 by empowah

[usa1]

Every few years I hear talk about how the new diesels are not at all like the old diesels. They are supposedly quieter and don't smell. When I see them on the road, they still smell and sound like crap. No thanks.

Mark

[Croc]

A lot of the smell has to do with the fuel blends.

[regfootball]

Just a little further down 169 actually...Clements. They also carry Chevrolet and Nissan as well. I work with their internet/fleet managers (Ralph and Jan) who are superb and very down-to-earth. I've sent several family members and friends there. Most recently my 'bro bought a loaded, manual Jetta TDI which he used to replace a pick-up for a 100/mile round trip commute. Not a week goes by where he doesn't tell me how much he loves that car...he saves something like $170-190/month in fuel costs and has a lifetime average of 49MPG. It's his main ride so he was perfectly fine with spending ~$25.5K for something that has luxury amenities with the fuel efficiency of a motorcycle. If you drive it that distance, the fuel savings essentially subsidize the car payment .  Running up the miles (especially 90% interstate) is really inconsequential for a diesel engine.

Most of the VW sales people I've come in contact with in the Twin Cities embody what everyone loves-to-hate about VW in general...the whole "yuppier-than-thou-and-you'll-pay-a-premium-for-it" attitude.

Actually I spoke out of turn about the Schmelz price...22K is about right for a completely loaded TDI with tiptronic. I forget that transmission is about a $1300 option. But the guy I spoke with yesterday (Schmelz was his last name actually) still had the 'tude thoughout our whole conversation that really turned me off. 

Still not going to pay retail for a seven year old platform with a soft-serve suspension and the wrong transmission. I love diesels regardless and the prospect of energy independence even more...but to overpay for these things is the equivalent of trading multiple day-one picts to draft a QB that probably would have been there in round 5, if you get my meaning.

don't get me going on the VIKINGS

[ponchoman49]

I would take one of these over the fugly Prius with it's hideous styling and goofy looking interior anyday of the week. Now if only they could add the Golf's door molding to dress up the plain looking door for protection I would really like the car.

[BatmanGTO]

It loses me on the 11 second 0-60 times.

Go Dubs....

but if my friend can make a 1.8T with 400 horse and still get 25/30 they have to be able to make a turbo diesel that can get great mileage and still have some moves

[PeterJ]

When VW trains their Diesels to not soil themselves, I'll consider one...

LMAO!

Yeah, you'd expect a German car to hold it's liqour a little better than that wouldn't you?

As has was pointed out, nothing there ULSD and advanced emissions technology can't take care of.

[clean97z]

My wife and I picked up a 2006 Jetta TDI with the DSG a few months back. Our lowest average fuel economy since we bought the car has been 41mpg. We do a good variety of city/highway driving, my wifes drive to work includes a decent amount of stop and go. We have had one long trip where we average 49mpg. I know the numbers say ~10sec to 60 but it has plenty of acceleration, it has no problem getting on the highway and in the end we didn't buy it to be sports car. I did manually calculate all the fuel economy numbers and I don't rely on the multi-function display. I would recommend this car to anyone who wants great mileage. It's as roomy as the previous generation passat and has an interior that looks like it came out of an Audi.

Edited May 4, 2006 by clean97z

[76ChevyTrucker]

I have to admit that VW has been doing diesels for a while and they've been fairly good, before my wife got the Cobalt we had a TDI bug and it was a pretty good little rat, until for some reason air got into the Fuel Injection Pump and made it a very expensive job (dealership is an asshole, but no one else will touch it, I tired). Overall, I have to admit the diesel is a good little creature, but if I want diesel power next time, it'll come in the form of a Duramax with an Allison strapped behind it.

[raven05649]

It loses me on the 11 second 0-60 times.

What!!! I have a freind with a jetta TDI and it sure as hell doen't take 11 seconds to get up to speed.

[toesuf94]

I drove the Jetta TDI and almost bought 2 - but the premuim price that the dealer wanted over a gas Jetta was not worth it and offset the savings the higher milage would have given me. I also calculated that I would have had to drive the TDI 250,000 miles to offset the costs of ownership versus the gas Jetta. In the end, Bought a Tahoe...The VW dealer pissed me off with his 'last minute recalculations' that jacked up the lease deal on the car...so I walked.

The Jetta is a nice, safe, high quality car. I loved it. And there is no way it took 11 seconds to get it to 60...I would not consider a car that slow.

[csaba1218]

When VW trains their Diesels to not soil themselves, I'll consider one...

just get a black one brian.

[siegen]

Bleh. Good mileage or not, I'd actually rather have a Prius (aside from the exterior appearance). I hate diesels, they're noisy, slow, and stain the exhaust tip/bumper like no other.

You do not wind them out like a V-tech.

I didn't know phones wound out that well lol

[caddycruiser]

A friend and co-worker of my mother who has owned nothing but VW's for a while now replaced her '99 Passat GLS V6 (which was trouble-free for 90k miles) with an "old" '05 Jetta TDI last summer. It was one of the last of last gen models built, gold over light beige leather. I hate gold, but this is one of the only cars that actually looks even better in the shade.

But, beyond that, she loves it and gave me the keys once to "take it out for a spin" and I fell in love. The VW solidity and refinement were clear throughout, and even though the TDI doesn't purr silently like a Toyo V6 (just for example), neither the noise or the feel were objectionable at all. Just feels and runs like it could pull stumps out of the ground all day long, and sip diesel in the process.

And I'm not sure if it's something in specific diesel mixtures, but in the year that she's had it, I've NEVER seen that black build-up in the exhaust pipe area--and she doesn't wash it that often, so it would be easy to see if it was there.

Though sometimes VW does have some reliability bugs, the cars drive like a dream and are generally built beautifully, and have always been some of my favorites.

Even mom, someone who absolutely positively despises the general "diesel sound" thinks the Jetta is really cool, if a little small for her, and seriously is thinking of a VW--mainly a diesel Beetle--replacing her Suburban in a couple of years once it's just her, my dad, and the dogs.

Having a cool looking car with gas mileage 3+ times what she gets now certainly is enticing, even if you can't carry 8 people and their crap...

Edited May 4, 2006 by caddycruiser

[Croc]

I have a friend who loves diesels (he's a Benz-o-phile), and I asked him about that a week or so ago when Fly showed me that pic on AIM...

Yea, the thing about diesels is that they have pretty tight specifications, hence why they are much more expensive to build; they require tighter tolerances than gasoline engines. The same is true with their maintenance. The fuel filter and air filter have to be changed every 12-18 months, and failure to do so could result in the black buildup.

Also, diesel blends do vary, and some blends have kerosene in them. This car was in FL though, so unless it did some serious fuel filling in NY it shouldn't have had that as a factor.

Frankly I like the idea of it being obvious when you neglect a car...with gas engines it's rarely visible when maintenance has been $h!ty...only with blue exhaust from really old oil. Heh...with diesels, you literally get a black mark for not practicing proper maintenance.

[clean97z]

Ours was cheaper then the 2.0t model which was our other choice. I believe it started at around 20K msrp. We were able to get the dealer to drop 1500 below MSRP on a package 2 TDI. I thought it was a good price and the fact my wife went from spending 250+/month on gas in our SUV to about 110 or less is awesome!

I also like the duramax and it would be the only way I would buy a pickup but talk about paying a premium. They do pretty good on the gas, my buddy averages around 20-21mpg.

[regfootball]

I drove the Jetta TDI and almost bought 2 - but the premuim price that the dealer wanted over a gas Jetta was not worth it and offset the savings the higher milage would have given me.  I also calculated that I would have had to drive the TDI 250,000 miles to offset the costs of ownership versus the gas Jetta.  In the end, Bought a Tahoe...The VW dealer pissed me off with his 'last minute recalculations' that jacked up the lease deal on the car...so I walked. 

The Jetta is a nice, safe, high quality car.  I loved it.  And there is no way it took 11 seconds to get it to 60...I would not consider a car that slow.

what sort of lease terms did you get?

[MyerShift]

I can't wait for the new diesels in the Golfs, Jettas, (and hopefully) Passats, and Toureg (again.

[MyerShift]

Oh, and I contacted Audi of America a while back, and Audi is not considering the new TDI engines for the Q's only.

[The O.C.]

in any case, the very next page, the new Camry Hybrid got 33 mpg.

it is bigger.  but not the 37 mpg they advertised in the same mag like 2 months ago.

Yeah....but 33mpg AS-TESTED from a Camry that does 0-60 in 7.7secs doesn't sound too bad to me.....!

[Drew Dowdell]

Yeah....but 33mpg AS-TESTED from a Camry that does 0-60 in 7.7secs doesn't sound too bad to me.....!

To put that in perspective. A 1997 Regal LS does 0-60 in 7.8 seconds... and gets 30mpg highway EPA...higher than that real world.... with a 4-speed.

Oh wait ..

*sips Kool-Aid*

Pushrods are teh SUXORS!

Edited May 16, 2006 by Oldsmoboi

[The O.C.]

To put that in perspective. A 1997 Regal LS does 0-60 in 7.8 seconds... and gets 30mpg highway EPA...higher than that real world.... with a 4-speed.

Oh wait ..

*sips Kool-Aid*

Pushrods are teh SUXORS!

I'll reiterate....

"AS TESTED"

A Regal LS may indeed hit 30mpg on the highway.....but I can ASSURE you that in daily driving, including a mix of town, city, and freeway....it's going to be a hell of a lot closer to 20mpg than it is 30mpg.....especially if it's lead-footed...like we can assume C&D does with most of their test cars...hybrid or not....

(I should know....I used to drive them all the time as company cars....and, yes, the geek in me made me always check the mileage at every tankful.....)

Let's see that pushrod Regal try to match the Hybrid Camry's in-town, low-speed fuel efficiency....

I'm not trying to defend the Hybrid Camry....but Oldsmoboi....you kinda opened yourself up for the debate.....

[Flybrian]

Yeah....but 33mpg AS-TESTED from a Camry that does 0-60 in 7.7secs doesn't sound too bad to me.....!

9 cubic feet of trunk space in a car that chunky sounds pretty bad to me.

[regfootball]

9 cubic feet of trunk space in a car that chunky sounds pretty bad to me.

the camry hybrid only has a 9 cubic foot trunk?

if so, then scratch it off the list. Its useless as a trasportation device then.

[The O.C.]

the camry hybrid only has a 9 cubic foot trunk?

if so, then scratch it off the list.  Its useless as a trasportation device then.

Uh, but....uh....but.....uh......but.....uh.....it's okay for the FOUR SEAT (re...not a niche car) G6 Convertible to have 1.8cu ft of trunk space with the top down.....eh?

:AH-HA_wink:

We should scratch the G6 'vert off our list too....because it's even MORE of a useless transportation device....

[Snate]

Uh, but....uh....but.....uh......but.....uh.....it's okay for the FOUR SEAT (re...not a niche car) G6 Convertible to have 1.8cu ft of trunk space with the top down.....eh?

:AH-HA_wink:

We should scratch the G6 'vert off our list too....because it's even MORE of a useless transportation device....

Uh since when are convertibles not niche cars?

[MyerShift]

Exactly.

But I highly doubt the G6 only has like, 1.8 cu ft of trunk space even with the top down.

If that is the case, the the G6 Convertible was very poorly designed and engineered.

[Snate]

Exactly.

But I highly doubt the G6 only has like, 1.8 cu ft of trunk space even with the top down.

If that is the case, the the G6 Convertible was very poorly designed and engineered.

The G6 has more room with the top up that the Solara while being a smaller vehicle overall. Pontiac.com lists 2.2 cu ft with the top down while I could not find information for the Solara.

Maybe I'm the minority but trunk space with the top down is not that big of a concern to me. You won't find any convertibles that you can comfortably load 4 people and 4 bags of luggage in with the top down so its really rather pointless.

[The O.C.]

The G6 has more room with the top up that the Solara while being a smaller vehicle overall. Pontiac.com lists 2.2 cu ft with the top down while I could not find information for the Solara. 

Maybe I'm the minority but trunk space with the top down is not that big of a concern to me.  You won't find any convertibles that you can comfortably load 4 people and 4 bags of luggage in with the top down so its really rather pointless.

Luggage capacity on Solara convertible with seats up is listed as 11.7cu ft on Toyota's website with top up OR down (the soft top doesn't impede on trunk space.)

That compares to 13.8cu ft for the Solara coupe.

G6 trunk capacity is listed as 12.6cu ft top UP.....and 2.2cu ft top DOWN.

What this basically means is that if you wanna take your G6 convertible on a nice, sunny, weekend trip and drive it (as it was intended) with the top DOWN, be prepared to put all your bags and stuff loosely in the back seat....as you won't be carrying any of it (or very little of it) in the 2.2cu ft trunk.

Which ALSO means you better not stop along the way.....leaving the top down.....for fear someone might snatch your UNSECURED luggage sitting in the back seat. Of course, you can always raise the top before you leave the car....but that's a pain-in-the-ass when with a secure and large TRUNK, you could just leave the top down for your entire trip.

I'm no big Solara fan......but Toyota doesn't make you accept this sort of compromise....and neither will Chrysler when they bring out their new Sebring Convertible.

[Flybrian]

Sucks even more that a "midsize" car like the Camry hybrid has all of 10.5 cuft and the "fullsize" Avalon has 14.3 cuft.

What's the excuse for that?

[The O.C.]

Sucks even more that a "midsize" car like the Camry hybrid has all of 10.5 cuft and the "fullsize" Avalon has 14.3 cuft.

What's the excuse for that?

C'mon....I know ur smart enough to point out ALSO that the Camry Hybrid loses some luggage capacity because of the batteries.....

I'd rather have the much roomier (in the back seat) Avalon with a smaller trunk that's still usable....than the much tighter (in the back seat) Impala or LaCrosse with a trunk that's almost too big.....(you can't reach stuff at the back of the trunk unless you crawl inside...!)

In other words, Avalon's utilization of space is probably WAY more realistic for the majority of the car-buying public.

(Alas....when does that W-body/GM-10 architecture REALLY get replaced?)

[Flybrian]

Accord Hybrid doesn't lose as much.

You're referring to trunk depth as if its a bad thing. When is the last time you put something short and wide in your trunk as opposed to something more narrow and long? You can't even do that in an Avalon with adjustable rear seats because that feature eliminates the split-folding feature.

Man, you're actually justifying that car with an ass as large as Rosie O'Donnell's having that pathetic trunk space (with goosenecks even!) as being more 'usable'?

I'm done with this.

[The O.C.]

Man, you're actually justifying that car with an ass as large as Rosie O'Donnell's having that pathetic trunk space (with goosenecks even!) as being more 'usable'?

Fly, you're DAMN straight I'm justifying that car...

The W-body architecture has been a packaging DISASTER from day one. The Avalon is not.

It's embarassing for a sedan like Impala to have a trunk as large as it has....with a back seat that's as tight for such a large car.

And, READ MY EFFING POST CORRECTLY why don't you....and stop putting words in my mouth

I didn't say the trunk on the Avalon was more "useable" I said having an Avalon's sized trunk with a much more accessible and comfortable back seat was a WAY more realistic accommodation of a car buyer's needs than the Impala's huge trunk, but confining rear seat room.

[regfootball]

Luggage capacity on Solara convertible with seats up is listed as 11.7cu ft on Toyota's website with top up OR down (the soft top doesn't impede on trunk space.)

That compares to 13.8cu ft for the Solara coupe.

G6 trunk capacity is listed as 12.6cu ft top UP.....and 2.2cu ft top DOWN.

What this basically means is that if you wanna take your G6 convertible on a nice, sunny, weekend trip and drive it (as it was intended) with the top DOWN, be prepared to put all your bags and stuff loosely in the back seat....as you won't be carrying any of it (or very little of it) in the 2.2cu ft trunk.

Which ALSO means you better not stop along the way.....leaving the top down.....for fear someone might snatch your UNSECURED luggage sitting in the back seat.  Of course, you can always raise the top before you leave the car....but that's a pain-in-the-ass when with a secure and large TRUNK, you could just leave the top down for your entire trip.

I'm no big Solara fan......but Toyota doesn't make you accept this sort of compromise....and neither will Chrysler when they bring out their new Sebring Convertible.

like I said in the pontiac RWD thread, GM always goes with the half baked solution. No surprise they fked up the cargo areas of the G6 cvt and the solstice. They just rush stuff out while taking their sweet time tripping over their own feet and then can't deliver on things like a functional trunk that completely destroys wanting the car.

[regfootball]

(Alas....when does that W-body/GM-10 architecture REALLY get replaced?)

How long did VW build the beetle?

[regfootball]

Fly, you're DAMN straight I'm justifying that car...

The W-body architecture has been a packaging DISASTER from day one.  The Avalon is not.

It's embarassing for a sedan like Impala to have a trunk as large as it has....with a back seat that's as tight for such a large car.

GM hasn't built an efficiently packaged sedan ever, seemingly. The firewall is usually far too low and back too far, pushing the windshield back and upright for a nice claustrophobic feeling and shoving the dash in your lap. Then, the hood is acres long to house a 90 degree boat anchor. So we have no front leg room, and the seats are low and soft with no support. Then, we'll make the car too low and drop the back seat also. To top it off, the seats are soft as bed pillows, so you're left sitting in the back with your knees up at your face. they usually have all sort of seat structure right on the floor where you want to put your foot. Then, the wheelbase is too short so the rear seat back is too far forward and you neither get leg space, foot space or a proper seatback angle. Then, the trunk is long (deep) but the garbage around the wheel arches is so wide and the rear deck so low, you don't get any effective height or width out of the trunk and the opening for the (usually optional) fold down seat is compromised so much you can't put much through it.

I was appalled at how small the Impalas back seat is and how average the trunk is.

The Grand Prix is the all time poster child for how badly you can package an automobile in terms of space effienciency and comfort.

Edited May 30, 2006 by regfootball